On May 2, the Associated Press uncritically reported that an effort to clarify where "evangelicals" stand in the culture/political war in America is soon to be released. It is to be called "An Evangelical Manifesto" and is touted by the AP as a statement by "evangelicals" that "faith is now too political." That isn't all. The AP is claiming that it isn't just Christian leaders in general that are saying this but that it is "conservative Christian leaders" who are standing up and denouncing politics in religion. But a little investigation proves that "conservative leaders" is not a very good description of those who have signed onto this "manifesto." In fact, many of the most well-known conservative Christian leaders in the country have decided not to sign onto the "manifesto" and many more weren't even consulted or included in the creation of this highly political document that pretends it stands against politics.
Sadly, this "manifesto" that is claiming to want to take religion back from its political involvement is itself a political statement, one that was created by people that refused to include Christian leaders from the right side of the political spectrum. This so-called "manifesto" seems to be just another attempt by the political left to undermine the devotion of Christians to the political right.
And the AP is more than happy to help them along...
Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.
The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for "using faith" to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible, according to a draft of the document obtained Friday by The Associated Press.
If we are to just swallow whole what the AP is selling, we'd imagine that Christian leaders on the conservative side are upset over what has happened to their faith. In fact, the AP flat out declares it to be so.
The document is the latest chapter in the debate among conservative Christians about their role in public life. Most veteran leaders believe the focus should remain on abortion and marriage, while other evangelicals—especially in the younger generation—are pushing for a broader agenda. The manifesto sides with those seeking a wide-range of concerns beyond "single-issue politics."
This so-called "manifesto" has not been released, so we do not have a full list of all those who have signed onto the letter. But many details about the contents and those who have signed onto the thing have been reported. And what we find is that a large number of those Christian leaders who are associated with powerful right leaning organizations were refused a place at the table of the creation of this document.
This raises a lot of questions. For instance, if known conservative leaders weren't involved or haven't signed onto this thing, how can it be claimed to be apolitical much less a product of "conservative Christian leaders"?
Warren Smith, the publisher of the Evangelical Press News Service, has reported that something seems amiss with this "conservative" project.
The list of people who have not been asked to sign it, or who have chosen not to, is as revealing as the list of those who have, or will. Former presidential candidate Gary Bauer and Family Research Council President Tony Perkins both told me they had not seen the "Manifesto." Tom Minnery, executive vice president of Focus on the Family and the organization's "point person" on public policy issues said neither he nor James Dobson has signed the document.
Other conservative evangelical leaders who often speak out on political issues have been kept out of the process. That list includes Rick Scarborough of Vision America, and former White House speechwriter and Beverly LaHaye Institute senior fellow Janice Crouse.
Also shunned, at least so far: the Southern Baptist Convention's Richard Land, Ohio-based Phil Burress of Citizens For Community Values, Faith2Action's Janet Folger, homeschool guru Michael Farris, and Concerned Women for America president Wendy Wright.
There is also a growing list of evangelical heavyweights who have been asked to sign but have (so far) refused -- due either to flaws in the document or, as one prominent evangelical leader told me, to the "exclusivity" of the list of signatories.
This project is beginning to look more like a group of Christians with anti-conservative views attempting to steal the mantle of leadership away from those who are now associated with Christianity in America. But to what end? We know that over the last year the political left has made major attempts to claim Christianity for themselves.
The left has made a concerted campaign to take over Christianity and use it for the purposes of the Democrat Party and the cultural left in America today. People like Dr. Tony Campolo, and Jim Wallis have been known to work closely with the Democrat Party. The failed presidential bid by John Edwards also made attempts to work with the Christian left. Various organizations have sprung up since the late 1990s to further the leftist agenda in politics.
Is this "Evangelical Manifesto" just another attempt by the far left in America to co-opt Christianity in America? It's a bit hard to believe otherwise since the people that put this project together studiously excluded so many prominent conservative Christians.
But one thing is for sure, the MSM will present them as "conservative Christian leaders" even as hardly any known and real conservative leaders are involved in this project.
(Photo credit: theramblings.org)



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Did Rev Wright, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakan
May 3, 2008 - 14:52 ET by Dee Bunksign on?
Politics is much more a part of liberal churches. The right is political on an issue like life whereas the left churches are political about everything. If a left candidate was truly pro-life and would vote that way, the so called "Christian right" would support them.
Liberal churches are just against anything conservatives do.
I always thought politics was "the church" to liberals
May 3, 2008 - 15:07 ET by exLibI agree with what you are saying Dee. Liberal churches trust more in the power of Government than God.
Therefore they have more faith in Obama, then they do in God working during a Republican Administration.
I don't remember anyone I know from my church fretting during the Clinton administration. Sure some of us weren't happy with what was going on but at the same time if you believe in God it doesn't matter who is in the WH, you live your life, enjoy it and don't let the bad stuff get you down. That's part of what being a Christian is about.
However, whenever I talk to anyone who votes democratic, if they call themselves Christian, usually get all bent out of shape when talking about Republican administrations.
right exlib
May 3, 2008 - 15:17 ET by Dee Bunkand how often do you see Conservative politicians speaking at churches? Churches are a regular campaign stop for liberals. It's illegal and conservatives need to start doing something about it.
Liberals do this sort of thing all the time. They break the rules and conservatives let them and then they have the nerve to come after conservatives implying that they are breaking the rules when they are not. There is a separation between religion and politics with conservatives but it doesn't exist with liberals. Many liberal churches should have their charitable status revoked based on current laws.
Remember the Army General in Seattle Dee?
May 3, 2008 - 16:09 ET by exLibI remember a General in the Army was asked to say a few words at a church in Seattle, totally off the record. Some lib was in the audience, taped it and I think the guy had to resign. If he didn't resign I know there was a ton of flap about in the media for a week or so about how bad it was that he did it.
And as you say, when a liberal does it, the media applauds and says "good for you".
Manifesto?
May 3, 2008 - 15:48 ET by Mike BrattonThose of us who are born-again, Bible-believing, Christ-honoring followers of the living God (a.k.a. "Christians") already have a "manifesto," thanks. It's the Bible. And in the Bible, Jesus Himself commands His people to be salt and light, both in our communities and in the world at large.
There's too much Christian faith in the American political process? Hardly. Fact is, there isn't nearly enough.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport.com
Would anyone be shocked to
May 4, 2008 - 09:01 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasWould anyone be shocked to know RICK WARREN is a supporter and signer of this? Well okay, I am sure you milk toast United Methodists expected it but those who understand the meaning of evangelical and identify with it, do you find yourself surprised? If so you should be ashamed since his THEOLOGICAL CON we know as "The Purpose Driven Con" demonstrated his complete lack of theological judgment. As for Dobson, well sincere or not he is a megalomanianc and maybe if someone cites a more weighty theologian (yes he is a shrink but he poses as a spokesman for God) not signing it would have greater effect.
Next Please! Please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.
*eyes glazing over*
May 3, 2008 - 16:13 ET by tracheostomyUm, wha. . .?
I read the entire blog and the link to the actual article. It's amazing how much "content" some people can create on so little information.
For cryin' out loud, the jury's still out. Give it some time, like when the names of the authors are released and when we know what the actual content is.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
But one thing is for sure,
May 3, 2008 - 16:23 ET by bigtimerBut one thing is for sure, the MSM will present them as "conservative Christian leaders" even as hardly any known and real conservative leaders are involved in this project.
It won't work, try as they might.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I'm not surprised people
May 3, 2008 - 19:09 ET by shawn228are taking pot shots and Liberals and blaming all that is evil on them. My .02 is that religion and politics, do not mix well, Does not matter if you are Christian, Muslin or Buddist.
Name...
May 3, 2008 - 19:41 ET by Warner Todd HustonCan you name a positive policy that modern liberalism ever spawned? I'd like to know what you think makes them too much LESS than evil?
Rosa Parks
May 3, 2008 - 20:27 ET by shawn228Colored people and white people going to school together.
I'm sure you and and the people that stick up for your blatant bias's will say liberals have nothing to do with that so me making that point stick is pretty much a losing battle. You might ever have more of a following now that you were mentioned on the Rush Limbaugh show. Congratuations btw. Lets change the topic.
Lets talk about why you are accussing me of something I did not say. I never said or implied they were less evil. Nice try Warner.
"Colored people and white
May 3, 2008 - 20:33 ET by Schnikeys"Colored people and white people going to school together."
Which pretty much happens to be the worst policy in the world, in terms of it being forced on the world like communism.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grizzly Bear '08
bookmarked
May 3, 2008 - 20:40 ET by shawn228Please, I want to know, how many people agree with this racist statement?
shawn...I think in this
May 3, 2008 - 20:44 ET by bigtimershawn...I think in this case racism is in the eye of the beholder...I sure didn't take it that way.
see post below.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bigtimer
May 3, 2008 - 20:55 ET by shawn228You know I try to be respectful to you, but in this case you are looking with rose colored glasses.
Here is what he said about people about anti segrigation
"Which pretty much happens to be the worst policy in the world, in terms of it being forced on the world like communism."
He is pretty much agreeing with white kids can have their own schools and people of color have no right to attend them. In fact I fact i'm curious on how many NB members will try to twist this around and say I misrepresenting what he is saying.
Warner do you defend his comments or do you denounce them?
shawn... Force has been
May 3, 2008 - 20:58 ET by bigtimershawn...
Force has been the worst thing that has happened among all of us.
I know, I lived it...by the way shawn, there are plenty of places I have read about over the years that are not using forced busing which is the same difference anymore.
Think about it shawn, people move where they are comfortable, black and white, include Latinos now...the govt. has no place in it...things should work out naturally, they usually do, instead of force...look at the outcome of all of this shawn...this has been an agenda from the beginning by the leftists, no prayer in school is another about the same time.
We have crumbled education wise, it should not be the federal govt.'s business, it should go back to the states, let them decide by their constituents, starting with the local PTA... that is how it suppose to be....and this country would be better for it.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Thank you bigtimer, you
May 3, 2008 - 21:02 ET by SchnikeysThank you bigtimer, you beat me to it...good thing I check for new posts before I make new ones myself.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grizzly Bear '08
Schinkeys... No need to
May 3, 2008 - 21:08 ET by bigtimerSchinkeys...
No need to thank me....and another thing while I'm at it...the Teachers Union is the most destructive force there is, and one of the biggest leftist supporters they have.
It is absolutely appalling.
By the way, I am getting sick and tired of any of us non-black folk not speaking out ...and when we do we are called racists...to hell with that, I am not whatsoever, nobody knows my life or friends, it is time to say enough is enough.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I'm actually shocked you think that way bt
May 3, 2008 - 21:07 ET by shawn228Sometimes force is needed. I'm certainly not one of these liberals that blame white people for all their ils, but lets take a look at history. Blacks were treated like Lepers, they were not allowed to ride on the same buses and they were lynched.
If the government did not intervene, you really think it would have resolved by itself? Would the people that owned shops and business's welcome blacks into their stores on their own? So if California decided if black people should not allowed in a few select malls, you would agree with that?
Get a grip shawn... You
May 3, 2008 - 21:10 ET by bigtimerGet a grip shawn...
You are purposely reaching here...
I am not playing your game.
I am damned serious about this issue..more than you know.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
get a grip? Playing my game?
May 3, 2008 - 21:15 ET by shawn228I'm not sure what game you mean bt. I don't support reverse racism either like Reverand Wright.
I''m simply asking you, if you think it would okay for a mall in California to excludes blacks.
I am serious about this topic as well.
It is an asinine question
May 3, 2008 - 21:18 ET by bigtimerIt is an asinine question shawn,
Period.
You are trying your best to make something out of nothing here....
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I don't think it is bt
May 3, 2008 - 21:22 ET by shawn228You pretty much have summed up that you feel it was wrong for the government to interfere with people shunning blacks from bus's, schools and restaurants.
People like MLK have fought and died for the right to be heard and treated like everybody else. Your saying that it was wrong of JFK to help them a little along the way.
Gotta put dinner on the table, be back about an hr
Take your time...I posted
May 3, 2008 - 21:27 ET by bigtimerTake your time...I posted how I felt, not your summation...and I was just beginning shawn.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
ok bt i'm back
May 3, 2008 - 21:57 ET by shawn228While I was eating, I had time to cool down and think things a little more rationally. I hope you don't think I am calling you a racist, because I am not.
Basically your point in a nutshell is the government should not have interfered in making white kids and kids of color attend the same school. You think the States should have solved the problem on their own and this last part I am just assuming. You think it pretty much put a precedent on what is going on today with all the reverse racism.Reverend Wright affirmative action etc.
Fair enough. I just have to respectfully disagree with you. If Rosa Parks did not stick up for herself and thousands of black people did not make a stand this would be totally different world. I like the fact that children of color get along and the United States is a melting pot of different cultures, religion and ideas.
I feel what the government did was hard at first, but it takes time and patience and sacrifice for the greater good, much like the war we are fighting right now. Seems most conservatives are okay with the colateral damage to acheive peace.
Numer one shawn...I went to
May 3, 2008 - 22:07 ET by bigtimerNumer one shawn...I went to school with plenty of blacks to begin with, mexicans and whatever, and Japanese to-boot, who was the only one who to be made fun of...that didn't last long, she and I became best friends, she is no longer with us here on earth, but I stuck up for her, and kids backed down, like they will, I still have some of her beautiful drawings and a lot of memories, my point is, being forced to do anything is going to reap the opposite affect...look at society now...please...it is a mess, leave people alone, we will all get along naturally.
As to your last sentence...how mad do you want to make me tonight?
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I like society the way it is now bt
May 3, 2008 - 22:12 ET by shawn228People are free to express themselves, there is more free speech, people of color can go anywhere they wish
As for my last sentence, I don't want to make you angry, I was making a direct comparision. Lots of blacks died for what they believed in.
shawn... ...and so have a
May 4, 2008 - 01:15 ET by bigtimershawn...
...and so have a lot of whites died for their belief in what was freedom for the blacks.
Is is old now...past tiresome to be used to this day though, especially in politics for vote pandering.... I am sick and tired of it all.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I think desegregation was at
May 3, 2008 - 21:12 ET by balboaI think desegregation was at one time necessary in this country. Not sure it's needed anymore. Most schools have a natural mix of ethnicities.
Right boa."Never murder
May 3, 2008 - 21:14 ET by bigtimerRight boa.
edit: by the way, that should of always been up to the area you lived in, and states rights as far as I am concerned.
The havoc this has all reaped is beyond sad...and it had been intentional.
Dumb down America....and I can count on your votes in future generations.
Just ask the leftist politicians. Of course you will not get truthful answers...ever.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
It was only needed
May 3, 2008 - 21:28 ET by sarcasmoBecause the government was way too involved in education in the first place. A free education marketplace would not have achieved perfect, instant desegregation (as if Brown did that...) but capitalism would have given owners the right incentives towards educating all sorts of kids in the same classroom and with the same teacher. When fiscal incentives reinforce moral behavior, force is not needed. The problem is, people literally can't imagine a world without socialist schooling these days, and in the same way they have trouble imagining a world where government force isn't needed.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Exactky sarc...I went to
May 3, 2008 - 21:36 ET by bigtimerExactly sarc...
I went to school in two different areas in Ca. with two room school houses...we learned more in a week that these kids these days learn in a year...if that.
I went to 13 different schools in Ca. in my lifetime of schooling, which by the way, I loved school, I had great teachers and a yearn to learn....by them!
It is past pathetic what has happened to the schools, the teachers, who is in charge of who....on and on it goes...it has been criminal.
Btw...I am talking about all races in these schools...you had the opportunity...it was up to no one but you...then the federal govt. stepped in and made all of this white mans fault at your non-success and being dependent on the govt. if you were black, the race wars were intentionally started back then, period...it was a crying shame.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Government created the problem
May 4, 2008 - 15:22 ET by CobraMan"If the government did not intervene, you really think it would have resolved by itself?"
There's something you're forgetting, and that's the fact that "government" had already intervened, as it was the local and state governments that mandated segregation and the resulting discrimination within segregated states. Government created the problem, so it took government to resolve it. That's what happens when government intervenes in people's lives to that extent.
You seem to be under the impression that segregation, and the resulting discrimination, was happening all across America when in fact, it did not. I can tell you first hand that not all states promoted segregation and not all citizens promoted discrimination. You see I was born in 1961 and I never saw ANY segregation here in Minnesota throughout my entire life. Most Northern States hated segregation and discrimination and would not tolerate it, even prior to the Civil War. It was the Southern states, and their governments, that not only tolerated segregation and discrimination, they actually mandated it though legislation.
So, you see, it was state and local government that created segregation, and the resulting discrimination, through it’s own legislation. Those states that did not segregate did not have a large problem with discrimination and most people lived together in harmony.
Yeah... I remember what
May 3, 2008 - 20:42 ET by bigtimerYeah...
I remember what happened not long after the Watts Riots in Ca. while going to school, we all got separated into different school districts, friends you thought were you friends became gang mentality even back then, it was outrageous...real smart indeed... look what the outcome has been about fourty years later...
Ca. used to be the cream of the crop for school scholastics and examples for teaching skills and criteria world-wide ect...where is it now...
Don't make me laugh.
I am just thankful I got the best while I was able to.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Warner, I can think of one
May 3, 2008 - 20:29 ET by SchnikeysWarner, I can think of one instantly: the "vote for liberals" policy approach. You see, since all non-liberal religion is destructive unless practiced in an insincere way, the only good way that religion can be made a part of society is through GOVERNMENT! :o
------------------------------------------------------------
Grizzly Bear '08
How about the Family and
May 4, 2008 - 02:38 ET by cleverpigHow about the Family and Medical Leave Act? The Occupational Safety Act? The Peace Corp and the space program? Well, I don't know if the space program is a good thing anymore, but it was.
Not good examples, either.
May 4, 2008 - 11:54 ET by Warner Todd HustonFamily medical leave act is garbage and the govt has no business doing it.
The peace corps is also none of the govts business and should be defunded and closed down.
The space program was not created by the modern left. It was not a cause of theirs or a goal. And it has, indeed, outlived its usefulness.
And the Occupational Safety act. You got me there. I am not familiar enough with it to know who sponsored it and how it got into effect.
So basically you just
May 4, 2008 - 14:48 ET by cleverpigSo basically you just object to the government trying to do anything good for people, either in this country or elsewhere in the world.
Unfortunately, there isn't any way to argue this because my definition of a "positive policy" and yours obviously bear no resemblance to each other! I have lots of other things I think are good, I just tried to pick ones that I thought might have more bipartisan appeal.
The Occupational Safety Act was created by Johnson's administration.
good and bad CP
May 4, 2008 - 14:55 ET byi work in construction,
there is a standing order with most contractors
CAL-OSHA shows up at a job site --- pack-up, go home.
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
Mr. C.Pig,
May 4, 2008 - 15:36 ET by Warner Todd HustonC.Pig,
A government's job is not to "do good." It is to protect and get out of the way otherwise. However, I am not so hands-off that I think government has no role in regulation. But, I'd guess that our ideas of what it should and shouldn't do are miles apart. You want cradle to the grave. I do not... and neither did America's founders. You want communism but that is as anti-American as it could possibly get.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for a socialist or communist to be an American because they want America utterly destroyed and remade in a new image. You cannot be a patriotic American and want socialist policies in place. You cannot love something you want erased for a new thing.
You know, you don't have to
May 4, 2008 - 17:08 ET by cleverpigYou know, you don't have to live in a sad, scary world where all liberals are america-hating communists. You could take a more nuanced view -- that differences of opinion are not anti-American, are in fact quintessentially American. You could choose to recognize that not all liberals are communists any more than all conservatives are libertarians or all fascists are Nazis. I mean, I suppose it takes some thought and effort to acknowledge that the world doesn't divide cleanly into "us" and "them," and that "them" is not a homogeneous group any more than "us" is.
Maybe that's just too much for you to process, so go ahead and attack my patriotism if that's all you feel up to today :)
And perhaps...
May 4, 2008 - 18:15 ET by Warner Todd HustonAnd perhaps you might stop jumping to conclusions so easily?
I didn't say liberals were all anti-American. I said socialists and communists are. Granted liberals are mostly filled with communist and socialist dogma, but they are not necessarily anti-American. They are just not very smart.
I don't believe most liberals in the US consider themselves socialists or communists, though, even if they are uninformed enough not to know that most of what they believe in is communist.
Still, there is enough difference between an American liberal and an outright socialist or communist and they can be thought of as to have SOME redeeming qualities. Not many, but some. And at least they aren't outright traitors by design, only by accident of ignorance.
Anyway, I never said anything about your patriotism.
"You want communism" "You
May 4, 2008 - 19:11 ET by cleverpig"You want communism"
"You cannot be a patriotic American and want socialist policies in place"
Sorry, that's a pretty straightforward attack on my patriotism. I don't really mind so much, I know that those sort of attacks only come out when someone has nothing substantive to say, so I'll count it as a victory.
More importantly, I really think people on both sides of the aisle would be a lot happier if they were capable of realizing not everyone who disagrees with them is an enemy.
Nice that
May 4, 2008 - 21:58 ET by Warner Todd HustonI love your assumed status of superiority. But, I don't mind it. Folks like you always feel you're the smartest in the room.
So, you count it as whatever you like. If you "want" it to be a victory, well the "wanting" is all many people need. So, I hope you enjoy your victory, pyrrhic or no.
But, one thing must be said. Sometimes folks on the other side of the aisle ARE enemies. I have many disagreements with well-meaning liberals. I disagree as well with folks on my own "side," too. Of course, they aren't always an "enemy."
But people that want to destroy everything that made the US what it is ARE enemies. Enemies to everything that is good.
So, your silly axiom -- while a pseudo moralistic claim that many of the far left make -- are not very good examples of clear thinking. Enemies exist in the real world, if not in your fantasy world.
Have a great night.
The New Deal didn't
May 4, 2008 - 23:52 ET by cleverpigThe New Deal didn't actually erase the US from the face of the earth, you know :)
"Enemies to everything that is good?" You sound like a bad fantasy novel!
No, it didn't. But one
May 5, 2008 - 00:21 ET by NL207No, it didn't. But one thing the New Deal most certainly did was to erase the limits placed on the actions of Congress by the Constitution. Our limited Republic was converted into a limitless Democracy. Government Tyranny was effectively banned in America by the Constitution until the advent of the Progressive Income Tax and the New Deal. Now, there are no brakes on the actions of the state in this country beyond those of the ballot box and private possession of firearms. Even now, liberals and other mindless idiots are feverishly working to remove this latter impediment to tyranny. The ballot box cannot be counted upon to restrain the state. Anyone clever enough to engineer a scare campaign can subvert the ballot box. Al Gore isn't very clever and he has done it. There are many others more clever than he.
NL207, Spending some elses money is a hard habit to
May 5, 2008 - 00:27 ET by upcountrywaterBREAK!
The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
Gee, thanks...?
May 4, 2008 - 19:28 ET by balboaGee, thanks...?
My two cents is that
May 3, 2008 - 20:31 ET by SchnikeysMy two cents is that liberals and politics do not mix well. Simple and plain. Get a life.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grizzly Bear '08
Warner
May 3, 2008 - 22:53 ET by shawn228I have been falsely accussed of hyjacking your thread thread before, but today it is true. Looks like this argument started again on a different thread, and I will post there. Apologies for the hyjack.
Sortta...
May 4, 2008 - 00:30 ET by Warner Todd HustonIt's sort of my own fault. I post an incendiary sort of question, then I leave the computer for the rest of the evening. I just turned the thing back on and saw what went on. So, don't worry. I don't blame you ... THIS time (lol).
Still, I hope you guys enjoy your other thread, but I'll say this about your answer: The modern left wasn't the one that started desegregation and and racial equality. THAT was an idea started by the culturally religious and Republicans. NEITHER of whom are representative of modern liberalism.
Now, it IS true that modern liberals swooped in after racial equality began to gather steam and STOLE the movement from its originators. It is also true that modern liberals at first offered eugenics and sterilization to "cure" the race problem in America. But once they saw the political power in co-opting the votes they could get from fooling blacks that they "cared" about them, well, the whole killing them off idea suddenly lost its appeal.
So, no, your example is NOT a good one. In fact, once leftists got really invested in it they turned it into the mess it's become.
My response...
May 4, 2008 - 01:05 ET by Republican_by_DefaultI am a conservative Christian minister.
My response is "They don't speak for me."
"The statement, called "An
May 4, 2008 - 19:53 ET by RESTLESS 1"The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians
on the right and left for "using faith" to express political views
without regard to the truth of the Bible,"- This statement is scary. Can we now expect to see the left reinterpreting the Bible on a daily basis? Sounds like the left will now be trying to convince the unwashed masses fallacies about the Bible. This ought to be interesting.