Typical of too many Northern based media outlets, Politico indulged in a little South-bashing today with a story on a remark about Pennsylvania spoken in 2006 by Clinton Democratic operative James Carville (pictured at right in file photo). In attempting to explain the political climate of the Keystone state, Carville basically said that state looked like Paoli (a suburb of Philadelphia) and Penn Hills (a suburb of Pittsburgh) with Alabama in between. Despite Carville's claims that he didn't mean it as any sort of slam, Politico and many Pennsylvanians are acting as if being compared to the culturally conservative and religious parts of Alabama is an outrageous insult. This incident just shows once again that the political elite and the media are utterly biased against the American Southland in general and religious Americans in particular.
Representative of the hate for the South imbued in our nose-in-the-air political operatives is public affairs consultant, Larry Ceisler who has "ties to the Democratic Party" in Pennsylvania. Ceisler told Politico that being compared to Alabama is a "slander."
"People think it meant that basically there are two areas of the state where people can read and write and treat people with a certain amount of respect and the rest of the state is redneck trailer trash," said Larry Ceisler, a Philadelphia public affairs consultant with ties to the Democratic Party. "It ended up being a slander on people who are living in those places. I would like to see the line retired."
For his part, Carville claimed that he "meant the central and northern tier of the state were culturally conservative with a large number of churchgoers. Hence, the comparison to Alabama." He says he in no way meant the quip as any sort of slanderous comparison.
Still, many lefties in the state are upset at the comparison anyway.
"People dreaded hearing it again," said Stephen Medvic, a government professor at Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster. "There ought to be a better way to describe the state."
Is it surprising that a university professor seems to hate the South like this? Not to me, sadly.
But there you have the nub of this argument over meaning. Democrats and media types in Pennsylvania are upset that they are being linked to "churchgoers" and conservatives as if that is the worst possible thing one could be likened to.
This pretty much shows the contempt that Democrats and the media have for the largest portion of America who are culturally conservative and religious. After all, Pennsylvanians weren't compared to Iran or al Qaeda! They were compared to other Americans.
Yet to the Politico and these Democrats and educators in Pennsylvania it is a stigma on their "good" name!
Yep, it's just another example of the hate that the media and Democrats have for the South, the religious and conservatives.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
a few pointers
April 2, 2008 - 11:18 ET by candance1) mid Pennsylvania doesn't look like Alabama in the first place.
2) Carville meant that as an insult as much as he meant "drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park" as an insult.
3) Liberals think rednecks and coutry hicks are beneath them? In other breaking news, grass is green.
Carville
April 2, 2008 - 11:26 ET by iveseenitallFar be it from me to defend the likes of Carville. I find the man repulsive on all levels. However,you are right to point out the "elitism" which dominates the ignorant, hypocritical "liberal" thought process.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Lunatic Liberals...
April 2, 2008 - 11:24 ET by orlandocajun"many Pennsylvanians are acting as if being compared to the culturally conservative and religious parts of Alabama is an outrageous insult."
Only in the liberal Northeast could anyone be outraged by being compared to "conservative and religious" people. Fine, let them decay into oblivion. People are moving south in droves. It's sure not because of everything they're doing right up north. If they spent half as much time loving God, and their fellow Americans, instead of hating America, they wouldn't be such a loathsome lot.
Orlandocajun:
April 2, 2008 - 11:36 ET by iveseenitall"A loathesome lot" --right on, Orlandocajun. Your phrase is apropos for all "liberals"!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
orlando,Don't
April 2, 2008 - 11:40 ET by Leonorlando,
Don't forget two major components of Carville's comparison that distinguish both regions, aside from conservatism and religion.
1) Rampant, unabashed, unashamed, unapologetic, in your face, old school, lynch mob racism.
2) Bad Oral Hygiene
That's what I think of when I think of Pennsyltucky.
On another note, nice work Carville on the Paoli shout-out. Current home of Leon's distinguished parents.
You originally considered
April 2, 2008 - 12:44 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou originally considered "Pennsyltucky" to be anything outside of Philly.
Once you were schooled on your error, you at least have finally accepted that Pittsburgh is not a part of "Pennsyltucky".
Your comments today show that you still do not understand "Pennsyltucky". Come to a neighborhood bar in the city limits of Pittsburgh, and I'll show you some good old-fashion "city folk" racism. On both ends. I am sure that you will find the same in the city of Brothers on Drugs.
But, hey, you know everything, so why bother, right?
Rog, Nope I still
April 2, 2008 - 13:00 ET by LeonRog,
Nope I still consider Pittsburgh to be part of Pennsyltucky. Anything outside of southeastern PA is Pennsyltucky.
No error there. I love that you were trying to give me links to prove I was wrong. It's an opinion! haha. I, me, LEON consider Pittsburgh to be Pennsyltucky.
Horrible place. Absolutely depressing. Nothing going for it at all.
Well, your opinion has the
April 2, 2008 - 13:18 ET by Roger the ShrubberWell, your opinion has the same value as an Indiana Fever t-shirt, but at least you admit that you are not basing your opinion on fact, but from prejudice.
Rog, Not
April 2, 2008 - 13:20 ET by LeonRog,
Not prejudice.
Experience.
Don't worry buddy. I've never seen a retiree get so fired up. Take it easy, we wouldn't anything to go wrong over there.
I am glad you aren't my
April 2, 2008 - 13:27 ET by Roger the ShrubberI am glad you aren't my biographer, because, even after all of this time, you still have no clue.
Obvservation is most definitely not your strength. Generalizations and absolutes definitely are.
I's sure that ifins
April 2, 2008 - 12:55 ET by Hero SquadI's sure that ifins I could unnerstand what you just wroten there, I'd be sure offended.
I'll take picturesque Lancaster County over Paoli any day. If Paoli didn't have a train station, nobody would know it existed.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
HS, Ha. Good
April 2, 2008 - 13:07 ET by LeonHS,
Ha. Good one.
Paoli is known b/c it's the most western town in the Main Line and, of course, for the train station.
It's the land of beautiful, spoiled girls, obscenely rich blue bloods, best public/private schools in the country, and some of the most renowned golf courses in America.
Furthermore, was that Paoli comment supposed to offend me? I dont' care. I don't live there. My parents love it. I find it hilarious that you would think I care what some Pennsyltuckian has to say about my parent's town.
As for Lancaster, that sure is an exciting place. haha. Definitely way better and way more interesting than the Main Line. Nothing says fun like basket weaving, quilt making, and candles made of bee's wax. Yeaaaah!
I dunno. Was your
April 2, 2008 - 15:48 ET by Hero SquadI dunno. Was your characterization of me being a toothless racist idiot supposed to offend me?
So in other words, you find us to be fiercely judgmental and sweeping in our generalizations of people who are not like us. An interesting observation you've made, completely devoid of irony.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
HS, If you have good
April 2, 2008 - 18:37 ET by LeonHS,
If you have good hygiene, then I guess you're just the typicality effect
You have to understand,
April 2, 2008 - 13:12 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou have to understand, Leon's vast knowledge of Pennsylvania comes from living in the Philly suburbs, going to a pseudo-Ivy League school in upper-class, suburban Philly, then returning to an upper-class Philly suburb after living in NYC for a spell.
Based on those credentials, Leon is, without a doubt, uniquely qualified to judge the 75% of the state he has little knowledge of, let alone visited or lived.
Wrong Rog, I've worked
April 2, 2008 - 13:17 ET by LeonWrong Rog,
I've worked all over PA. I spent 7 years during highschool and college working in steel mills all over the northeast and central PA. I know all about the environment and the people.
How'd you think I was so spot on concerning the lack of teeth everywhere west of the Main Line?
Don't let my unbelievable academic/employment/travel credentials fool you. I'm blue through and through.
But that's pretty cute that you know so much about me. I'm flattered. Want to be my biographer?
A minute ago you said you
April 2, 2008 - 13:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberA minute ago you said you are basing your statements on opinion, but now you are basing them on fact? Make up your mind, will you?
I have already filled the "Kicker of Leon's Sorry Ass" position a while back. I would suggest you look elsewhere for a writer of short stories, Pumpkin.
Rog, I'm not looking for
April 2, 2008 - 13:27 ET by LeonRog,
I'm not looking for a writer, you just offered on this thread with your cute little synopsis of my life.
My OPINION is based on the FACTS of my EXPERIENCE. Isn't that how it always works? Aren't opinions your acceptance of those things you believe to be fact?
Wow you're really spinning your wheels today. Senior moment? Don't worry, happens to our potential next president all the time so your in good company.
Fact: something that
April 2, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Roger the ShrubberFact: something that actually exists; reality; truth
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Spinning in circles, yes you are, Pumpkin.
Ha ok Rog. Got me! Super
April 2, 2008 - 13:38 ET by LeonHa ok Rog.
Got me! Super sleuthing.
My opinion: Central PA and Western PA is full of racist yokels
My experience: Central PA and Western PA are full of racist yokels
The Facts: Central PA and Western PA are full of racist yokels.
I stand by what I've said. Sorry that all of your assumptions about me were wrong. Apparently your mother skipped that lesson
Hey, listen, I know you must be tired. It's 1:30 pm, you've been up since 10 am getting your little open thread links of the day together, and at your age you're only 3 hours from dinner.
Looks like someone needs to take a nap.
Super-sleuthing? You are a
April 2, 2008 - 13:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberSuper-sleuthing?
You are a Scooby-Doo criminal, Leon.
Even your personal attacks are more stale than usual.
Plus, you think Hillary is not fat, too. You are embarrassing yourself today.
Consider your sorry ass duly kicked.
Well she is fat-headed.
April 2, 2008 - 13:59 ET by Jack BauerWell she is fat-headed. That's indisputable.
As to what cellulite is constrained by the neoprene pantsuit, I couldn't speculate -- too much of a gentleman I suppose.
Jack, I'll second that.
April 2, 2008 - 14:05 ET by LeonJack,
I'll second that. Fat head is indisputable.
While her head is fat but I don't think it will cause the diabetes, heart failure, or profuse sweating associated with the fat bodies I love to rail against.
Jack,I'll second that.
April 2, 2008 - 14:06 ET by Leondouble
Two posts. I now have more posts than Roger's town has teeth collectively. Hehe.
Just don't third it. Vote
April 2, 2008 - 14:07 ET by Jack BauerJust don't third it.
Roger unhinged! ha. It
April 2, 2008 - 14:04 ET by LeonRoger unhinged!
ha. It really is nap time! Gotta rest up for that early bird special at your favorite IHOP or whatever it is you people eat out there.
I'm still trying to figure out how my a** could possibly be kicked by a stranger on a blog with letters on a screen that make said stranger look whiney and pathetic.
Hey, you can move. You don't have to live in the land of the dirty, racist hicks. Don't take your anger out on me.
That's funny stuff. I read
April 2, 2008 - 17:27 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat's funny stuff. I read your post, and I am the one unhinged? Whew, thank God my defibrillator was turned on, or else my weak elderly heart might have given out.
I'd embarrass you further, but I am out of metamucil and need to cash my pension check. Ta-taa, loser!
Rog,A little too late
April 2, 2008 - 18:42 ET by LeonRog,
A little too late for self-deprecation.
Every day you slip further and further. It's a sad state of affairs when the man who can not live without having the last word can't even find a first word.
The non-profit Shrub Report must be causing you some extra stress.
Waaah!
April 3, 2008 - 12:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberI obviously have crawled under your pasty-white skin because you cannot let this go, and only look more stoopid. Imagine the embarrassment of a elitist Leftist snob getting his sorry ass whipped by a geriatric, gap-toothed, uneducated Pennsyltucky yokel. Man, how do you get up in the morning? Is it a daily struggle not to reach for the razor blades?
Oh and Rog, I don't live in
April 2, 2008 - 13:21 ET by LeonOh and Rog,
I don't live in the suburbs. I live in Philadelphia.
Sheesh. Now I don't know if I want you to be my biographer. No attention to details.
PA Politics
April 2, 2008 - 11:32 ET by KC MulvilleCarville is essentially correct. It wasn't that long ago that Pennsylvania politics only meant two big cities (Philly and Pittsburgh) which were entirely Democrat, and then the rest of the state, which was overwhelmingly rural and Republican. All elections came down to whether the big city pols could rustle up (i.e., bribe, or simply invent) enough votes to edge out the GOP.
I grew up just outside Philly, in an Irish-Italian neighborhood, where every parent had been born either in West Philly (Irish) or South Philly (Italian). They always voted Democrat, especially up to John Kennedy, but then again, the Democrats of those days were a lot more conservative than today's brand. Right after WWII, the inner-city European immigrants moved out to the suburbs. A curious change happened. Once they got to the suburbs, the cohesive power of the Catholic church and the old time immigrant institutions faded. That left my generation in a politically dynamic (and uncertain) state; neither Democrat nor Republican. Collectively, they became swing voters who could turn elections. It wasn't just big-city Democrats against rural Republicans anymore - now you had a third group of in-betweeners. In Philly, those swing voters are all over the suburbs - West Chester, Blue Bell, and yes, Paoli. I assume the same thing happened out in Pittsburgh, and some version of this is likely happening all over the country.
I'm no fan of Carville, but he's probably right, from his perspective. He's a Democrat operative. Remember, Carville & Begala first achieved notoriety because they helped Harris Wofford (no talent at all) win an upset senate victory in Pennsylvania. Carville knows Pennsylvania. He's likely correct that the strategy in PA is different than it used to be. You still have the Democrat big cities, and the Republican rural areas (which might as well be Alabama for Democrats). But now you have to focus on the Paolis of the state, because that's where the swing votes are.
I realize Carville was most
April 2, 2008 - 11:55 ET by Roger the ShrubberI realize Carville was most likely just trying to find a "P"-named town in SW Pa, but Penn Hills isn't exactly a very nice place these days. Of course, he is correct: Penn Hills is very blue. One side of town you have retired, elderly steel/auto/union/Westinghouse employees whose houses are old, offer little-to-nothing to the tax base, and would rather die than pull that "R" lever. The other side has spill-over from the urban crime and violence of Wilkinsburg/Homewood, and has its housing projects with its plethora of drugs, gang violence, and crime.
So, he is correct. The "blue" part of SW PA is the shitty part of town.
Funny, Democrats seemed to
April 2, 2008 - 11:35 ET by Chris NormanFunny, Democrats seemed to love the South, even with it's conservatism, until it turned Republican...
The South
April 2, 2008 - 11:44 ET by iveseenitallRight, Chris. The old-time Democrats of which KC speaks were disenfranchised by the modern "liberals" who took over the party. The Republicans benefitted from this. However, now that the RINOs have taken over the Republican Party, disgust with the entire politcal system is at an all-time high in America. Many people have legitimate liberal leanings, combined with solid conservative values, yet have no place to go. Sad.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Once the old line Southern
April 2, 2008 - 11:55 ET by Chris NormanOnce the old line Southern poltiticians started retiring or being carried out of the Senate on stretchers, there were no new southern democrat conservative politicians to vote for. John Edwards just ain't no Sam Irwin... :)
No worries!
April 2, 2008 - 11:43 ET by bluefeetbrewsDepending on the situation, all we say around here is "Thank God for Arkansas/Louisiana/Mississippi."
I heard a story about a reporter asking (then) Sen. Fred Thompson what he thought about Janet Reno and her handling of some Clinton investigation. His reply was simply "Well, she's from Florida." I don't know if that's true, but what he meant was perfectly clear to every Southerner.
Carville's inital quote was perfectly clear to me- conservative in the middle with liberal bookends. No insults here, just wonderment at another MSM outlet's much ado about nothing. Or maybe another dig at Team Clinton to help out Obama...
If the media actually knew anything...
April 2, 2008 - 12:01 ET by MearlineThey'd know that Pennsylvanians in the smaller towns describe THEMSELVES like this exactly.
NOT Carville's quote anyway...
April 2, 2008 - 12:04 ET by BreezeCJJames Carville was paraphrasing a quote that was originally made by Sen. Arlen Specter (R) years ago. The original quote was; "Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with Alabama in the middle." I can't find nor remember exactly when it was first said, but it was many years ago.
Lest ye think I'm defending Carville, I'm not. I just want the facts to be acurate.
"Tell me why must I always explain?" - Van Morrison
CJ -correct, it was also said by Pat ?(D)
April 2, 2008 - 13:34 ET by JayTeeSome Democratic Pollster Guy on Fox , named Pat Catrell--?(something) also said this a few weeks back.
Maybe he was quoting someone else also.. . . . Since Carvill is for Hillary, the MSM B-HO supporters are trying to take him out, discredit him, befire Hillary and friends start blowing the whistle on the MSM being in Bed with Obama.
When will the MSM ever ask Obama another question about the Rev. GD Wright ? Anyone wanna bet on a Date ?
As I recall as a southern boy...
April 2, 2008 - 12:15 ET by Mr. TerryAs I recall, there were droves of northeasterners moving to the warm weather in Florida where I was born. They brought with them the outward hatred of all things southern and all southerners. Even though they lived in our neighborhood, they insulted us as hicks and said we talked funny. (Imagine that being said with a thick Brooklyn accent...) I also lived in Arkansas until I was five then moved to Sacramento, CA. I learned there what persecution was. "...Poor hayseed, lets teach him how to talk."
I guess the carpetbaggers started it all but you think they'd let the civil war rest. It is wrong to stereotype people no matter who they are. This tolerance crap they espouse is nothing but another liberal farce. To quote our European friends, "Yankee go home".
btw, I think James Carville is the bile duct of the democratic party.
“A nation that cannot secure its borders is not a nation.” Ronald Reagan
Mr. Terry, Your biography
April 2, 2008 - 14:16 ET by Chris NormanMr. Terry,
Your biography mirrors mine. I moved from Ft. Smith, AR to Sacramento when I was young. I also caught heck about my accent and colloqialisms. Are we twins separated at birth? :)
We could be...
April 3, 2008 - 03:10 ET by Mr. TerryYou never know, Chris. We probably fought the same battle. When I went to CA from Cabot, AR near Little Rock I was pretty thick with an accent they tell me. After living in CA for about 5 years we moved back to Florida. (I'm an Air Force brat)...
By the time I got to Florida I didn't know what a redneck was. Then I became one....
“A nation that cannot secure its borders is not a nation.” Ronald Reagan
So much for the shelf life of news stories
April 2, 2008 - 12:29 ET by kenro85Someone was arguing on here the other day that news has a shelf life; when it isn't news anymore it goes away (he was talking in regards to how fast the Rev. Wright issue was swept under the carpet). I'm not sure, but I think this story is way past it's prime, with nothing new to interest people. So much for his theories about why some news goes away and some doesn't...
Crazy Ol' Uncle?
April 2, 2008 - 13:02 ET by acumenI'm trying to figure where Johnstown/Jack Murtha fit into the Politico's analysis....
What the heck is wrong with being Alabama??
April 2, 2008 - 15:55 ET by Alabama"People think it meant that basically there are two areas of the state where people can read and write and treat people with a certain amount of respect and the rest of the state is redneck trailer trash,"
I have lived in the South for the majority of my life (spent three years in MN). Maybe the Gulf Coast just isn't representative of the rest of Alabama, but I have yet to meet anyone under the age of five who cannot read or write. Treating others with a certain amount of respect is something ingrained in us from birth, and I have to say that the rudest people I've encountered in my life were from Northern states (but I'll go with the benefit of the doubt here and assume that Snowbirds are not representative of all Northerners). And I'm not even going to get started on trailer trash.
I took Carville's comment to mean that PA is made up of two very liberal areas-- one on each side of the state-- with the middle of the state being very conservative. How is that offensive? It only becomes offensive when ignorant people assume that they know things they don't. If we really were a bunch of drooling, toothless morons, I suppose the outrage would be justified. But come on...
Incidentally, I've been to Pittsburgh and I've been to the "Alabama" portion of PA. I found Pittsburgh to be just another big city. The "Alabama" portion of PA is very aptly named, I think. Small town/rural tends to be the same across the US, I've found. The part of PA that I visited looked a lot like Northern AL, except I think the hills were bigger.
My point is, being called "Alabama" is a pretty weak insult... it must be rough for those who feel slandered-- going through life so easily offended can't be easy...
It's not so much that it is
April 2, 2008 - 16:00 ET by Hero SquadIt's not so much that it is an actual insult, but that Carville meant it as such. I think in the reference that Carville clearly attempted to make, both Alabama and Central Pennsylvania are justified in feeling disparaged and insulted by the comment.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Is that banjos I hear?
April 2, 2008 - 17:54 ET by SickofLibsPRICELESS - This backwoods goat-banger is making fun of ALABAMA?
Is it just me, or does anyone else think of the movie 'Deliverance' and banjos any time this rube's hideously ugly 'I just escaped from a mental institution' head pops up?