On the 25th, the Washington Post served up a lament for Hollywood's dismal box office returns for the many Iraq war pictures it has churned out over the last several years, wondering why they have all failed so spectacularly? The whole article amounts to the Post just not understanding why moviegoers have stayed away in droves from these dark and dismal movies. But with the anti-Military, anti-American point of view depicted in every single one of these movies, it is no surprise that Americans have ignored these self-denigrating flicks. After all, with soldiers really taking casualties on the battle field, who wants to see a film that tells us all it's OUR fault?
Still, the Washington Post is mystified.
After five years of conflict in Iraq, Hollywood seems to have learned a sobering lesson: The only things less popular than the war itself are dramatic films and television shows about the conflict... A spate of Iraq-themed movies and TV shows haven't just failed at the box office. They've usually failed spectacularly, despite big stars, big budgets and serious intentions.
The Post then goes on to wonder if audiences are "turned off by the war, or are they simply voting against the way filmmakers have depicted it?" As the post asks that question, you'd think they are on the verge of understanding. But, this question is dropped right away as the story details one flop after another. Ridiculously, the Post seems puzzled by the fact that audiences have not just mindlessly followed into the theater the "big stars, big budgets and serious intentions" of these failed flicks and no further attempt is made in this story to explore the public's disinterest.
The Post quotes TV legend Steven Bochco who imagines that his TV series "Over There," which failed after only 13 episodes, was not well received because Americans felt "a certain sense of powerlessness" about the war. The Post also quotes film historian Jonathan Kuntz of UCLA that the whole thing is just a "bummer."
For now, Kuntz agrees with Bochco: "We're bombarded by information about [Iraq] 24 hours a day," he says. "We already know plenty about it. We don't need to learn more about it from the movies. Right now, it's something people want to forget and escape from. I speak for the American public when I say, 'What a bummer.' "
The American people are saying "what a bummer," but you don't speak for them, Mr. Kuntz.The "bummer" is coming from how the films depict every aspect of our current action as wrong, bad, even evil. Too bad the Washington Post dropped their initial inquiry because they might have had something interesting to explore with the question of how these movies portray the war and those participating in it.
Each and every film discussed by the Post portrays the war as wrong, the soldiers as dolts, mislead, murderers, drug addicts or victims of one sort or another.These films also constantly show a U.S. government uncaring and uninterested in the welfare of soldiers, their families or the people living in war torn areas.
There is nothing good depicted in any of these movies and that is why Americans don't want to pay their hard earned money to go see them. The "bummer" is that each and every one of these movies are aimed at bringing down America's spirits as far as possible in order to spur the public to acquiesce to Hollywood's political agenda of ending the war and tearing down the U.S. military.
So, it is a "bummer," Mr. Kuntz. It is a "bummer" that you and your friends in Hollywood want to make films that attempt to tear this country down and dispirit it's people.
Fortunately, most Americans don't seem to be dumb enough to waste their money on the garbage Hollywood is foisting upon them. But, too bad that the Washington Post eschewed the more interesting and probably more correct angle to this story just to give us the boring lament that America is merely "war weary" as opposed to detailing how Hollywood is failing because of its political agenda.
In the end, there is one thing that isn't a "bummer." It is good that Hollywood is losing their financial rear ends with failure after failure letting them know that America isn't interested in their junk.
("Rendition" movie poster courtesy of www.mooviees.com. "Rendition" copyright New Line Cinema.)
Editor at Large
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They just don't understand
March 25, 2008 - 11:23 ET by Chris NormanThey just don't understand the country and it's people, outside their own relatively small circle. There's a total disconnect here.
BTW, ""We're bombarded by information about [Iraq] 24 hours a day," he says"?
Maybe we were - and in mostly negative stories on the MSM - but now, about the only time we get any info, at all, is is the occasional coverage of a major enemy attack that kills US troops - something the MSM can really get into.
I was thinking the same
March 25, 2008 - 12:06 ET by FastEdtheir "understanding" of the american people is based on a bias that is 180 degrees out-or-step. You've got to wonder if there is some kind of illness that could be generated by the air, film, buildings located in Hollywood proper, or is it the lower IQ's of all those people being in close proximity, feeding on itself, like a bad virus?
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Ed,As far as Hollywood
March 25, 2008 - 12:22 ET by Chris NormanEd,
As far as Hollywood goes, I think it's because as soon as they're accepted into the Hollywood elite, they burn every bridge they can to their pasts in Kansas, Idaho, Texas, etc. Their reality bears no resemblance to the reality outside LA County. They don't want to identify with their audience - yet they don't get it when the audience rejects their political crap.
Exactly Chris, but more than that
March 25, 2008 - 14:34 ET by exLibMore than just buring their bridges, they look down on that part of their past. Most likely they looked down on it when they were it and just got lucky to "escape it".
They are greater, better, smarter and more enlightened than those yokels they left behind.
I was listening to a show on the radio and a guy I never heard of from Hollywood was talking about being conservative politically there.
He pretty much said that if you pitch a movie script to any of the people who can get you the cash to make the movie you'll never get another shot to do a movie again. So the majority just do what they think the producers want to hear.
What he said was needed was for some of the wealthy Conservatives to put money into making movies. The problem is that he thought most conservatives liked to invest money in to things that made an immediate and measurable return. Movies have the effect of erosion. You can never go outside and look at the shoreline and see the land getting whittled away, yet over the years you can see it in pictures that it is obvious.
Obviously we need to
March 25, 2008 - 11:22 ET by mattmObviously we need to subsidize anti-American movies.
I wonder where the Michael Moore crowd is?
March 25, 2008 - 11:24 ET by Dee BunkI'm surprised they are not flocking to these films. They probably aren't strong enough propaganda for them.
Other unpopular things
March 25, 2008 - 11:28 ET by ThisnThat"The only things less popular than the war itself ".
I can think of a lot of things. WaPo. The MSM. Congress. Hollywood. Dentist visits. Having to watch "Dancing with the Stars" with my wife. Mondays.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
TnT... "Having to watch
March 25, 2008 - 12:17 ET by Clear thinkerTnT...
"Having to watch "Dancing with the Stars" with my wife. Mondays."
I hear ya! My wife get's all excited about an hour before this show comes on. I do my best to get out of watching it with her, but I'm running out of excuses. Any ideas?
"Abstain from McCain"
Tell her...
March 25, 2008 - 12:34 ET by Prester John...you're going to ball room dance classes and head for the nearest bar.
Prester... Ball room
March 25, 2008 - 12:42 ET by Clear thinkerPrester...
Ball room dancing is out. She would know in a heart beat that I was lying to her. Maybe basket weaving classes?
"Abstain from McCain"
better idea
March 25, 2008 - 14:47 ET by UndercoverConservativetell her you're off to the rifle range to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights while ya stil have 'em.
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
When in doubt, join them
March 25, 2008 - 19:53 ET by FastEdand watch the show - make sure you comment about how shaply the women's legs are, and how you really like looking at those legs, etc., at which point you'll be excused, or have a dog house as a new residence! Either way, dancing alone.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
I just took ball room
March 25, 2008 - 12:44 ET by danboI just took ball room dancing. I think that was lot more fun.
At least you get to hold your honey. Then there's the beer after...
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Well, I did want to see
March 25, 2008 - 14:38 ET by Hero SquadWell, I did want to see Penn Jillette dance. And now I did. It was exactly like I thought it would be. So now I am done.
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
"The only things less
March 25, 2008 - 12:23 ET by danbo"The only things less popular than the war itself ".
This statement in itself shows their lack of understanding. My parents generation stormed beaches in the South Pacific and marched across France and Italy. Though there were some good memories from that period. I heard few if anyone talking about liking the war itself. I'm not sure who has good feelings about seeing so much death and destruction. Or the fears of losing someone.
However. Though people didn't like the war. They knew it was just and had the will to finish it.
I don't think either the media, hollyweird, or liberals in general understand that.
But then. These people were also telling me how great Obama's speach was last week.
They don't have a clue.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Well Warner - take Rendition"
March 25, 2008 - 11:32 ET by Gary HallPerhaps the movie "Rendition" needed a little "kick it up a notch" on the cover to entice the public. Perhaps a little quote from Al Gore would have sparked more curiosity (from Richard Clarkes' book, Against All Enemies, 143-4.) My bold, as if it's needed:
Acceptance speech at the Academy Awards," ... and I'd especially like to thank Al Gore for making all of this possible. Without Vice President Al Gore's arm twisting of President Clinton, he just might not have ever ordered the CIA to set up our policy of rendition. Then, we wouldn't be standing here in the limelight with you bunch of gulible fools, for creating this pile of crapola."
Oh my.... did I regress. (;~>
Wasting Other People's Money
March 25, 2008 - 12:10 ET by allanfIt is so nice to make a brave stand for a cause with other peoples money.
Here are some of the returns
US Gross World Wide
Lions for Lambs has a production budget of 35 million. It's US opening weekend was only 6 million. Theaters usually license films on a decreasing sliding scale starting at about 75% of gross for the first week and declining quickly to 35%. Variety, shortly after the pictures release, accurately predicted its total gross, and then speculated that the film would lose 25 million dollars. Absent an announcement from UA, one can assume this film lost money.
Production costs for Rendition are pegged at 27,500,000. Redacted's had a production budget of 5,00,000.
Special consideration should go to Meryl Streep star of both Lions for Lambs and Rendition. I do hope she receives a special award for self indulgently wasting other peoples money.
Perhaps the Dishonors Awards need a new category?
Mark Cuban
March 25, 2008 - 12:17 ET by LionKingHopefully Mark Cuban learned his lesson on Redacted and will stay out of the movie business.
It's not only...
March 25, 2008 - 11:50 ET by heldmywIt's not only war movies which:
It's ALL of the movies that preach vile sermons maligning honor, dignity, morality, faith, hope, charity, kindness, and decency. It's part of the leftist mindset that thinks spraying blood around in an Easter service is acceptable free speech.
It's disgusting, and the very notion that they expect a reasonable human being to pay to be bathed in this crapulence is the height of arrogance and stupidity.
Starve, filmmakers.
I totally agree. I have
March 25, 2008 - 12:21 ET by amberI totally agree. I have never in my life had to research movies to see if they are anti-Christian and anti-American, until a few years ago. I used to be able to pick at least one in a 60 day period that looked good, but now I have to go 6 months or more before I find something worth spending my money on. The same goes for children's literature. I read the first chapter of Ivy and Bean and I thought it looked like a good book. Halfway through it, my 7 year old told me they were showing her how to make a pentagram and talking about witchcraft. I did a little more digging and found that a Wiccan symbol was on the side of the book and it was about indoctrination into the dark arts and how being amoral is fun. Most books and movies out for children as well as adults are an attack on Christian values. It is terrible.
I am not too descriminating when it comes to violence and history. I love the Band of Brothers, 24, We Were Soldiers, Enemy at the Gates, Spy Game....and so many others. I hated Jarhead and after that I seriously started researching the films I went to see... 300 was a major laps in judgment on my part.
They have not
March 25, 2008 - 11:56 ET by BDThey have not learned....
The sobering lesson is that films that denegrate and demoralize are the ones that are not popular. If they were to make a film regarding any of the great battles of the GWOT they would be box office standouts and highly popular.
The Battle of Takhur Ghar where a Ranger team fought off the enemy for 12 hours following their aircrafts crash would make HUGE profits.
The story of Paul Ray Smiths Medal of Honor would make HUGE amounts of money.
There are many such movie possibilities, but Hollywood does not seek to show them.
Other movie script
March 25, 2008 - 12:07 ET by BDOther movie script possibilities which would make compelling viewing and are based on real life.
1.) The story of Gracia Burnhams year+ captivity by the Abu Sayyaf Group in Basialn Island the Phillippines andher eventual rescue in which her Husband and best friend Deborah Yap were killed. Highly moving stuff. (Ooops, Gracia is a Christian, can't have that....)
2.) The story of Jeffrey Schillings escape from the Abu Sayyaf and captivity on Jolo Island for more than a year and return to his home in Oakland California. Want more PC points? Jeff is a African American Muslim who works as UC Berkley.
3.) The story of the European hostages of the Abu Sayyaf held for about a year who were eventually ransomed about six years ago. Even has promise as a "Global Pick" since they were kidnapped from a dive resort at Sipidan and in one case had Nelson Mandela interceding for them.
Lots of ideas, and this only took me two minutes.
4.) The story of the
March 25, 2008 - 12:23 ET by amber4.) The story of the Haditha Marines and how the media and anti-American congresspeople caused the US Government to prosecute those defending us and trying o save their lives.
5.) How about the story of
March 25, 2008 - 13:54 ET by BD5.) How about the story of the New York National Guards fabled 69th Infantry Regiment who served at Ground Zero starting 9/11 helping to dig out their fellow citizens, and then were mobilized for combat on Route Irish in Bagdhad (known as the most violent road in the world during their tour) and later in Taji. The unit is rightly famous for taking back Route Irish from the Insurgents and pacifying its AO.
For more details see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001550ACM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
6.) and... a movie called
March 25, 2008 - 14:07 ET by amber6.) and... a movie called "The Days After" about an Afgan woman after the US kicked the Taliban's ars and set her and her family free
there are so many great stories of freedom, liberation, love, loyalty, and strength in the armed forces and they choose to either make up stories or focus on the few who join so they can be famous like John Kerry
BD - Even if the Hollywood enemy-propagandists were to
March 25, 2008 - 12:55 ET by R D HelmEven if the Hollywood enemy-propagandists were to do a film on any of those stories, they would somehow twist the story to make us appear as the bad guys.
Heck, if they re-made Tora! Tora! Tora!, those idiots would make it appear that it was the Americans who started the war by executing a sneak-attack on Tokyo Bay.
Sad part is, many brain-dead Americans would probably believe it, too.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Who is Paul Ray Smith? I
March 25, 2008 - 12:34 ET by Roger the ShrubberWho is Paul Ray Smith? I never read about him in the NYT.
Roger: Thanks much for
March 25, 2008 - 12:46 ET by BDRoger:
Thanks much for the lead in.
Once again for the 7th day, the New York Times has not reported the decision to award US Navy Seal the Medal Of Honor posthumously for his action in Iraq in which he saved the rest of his team by smothering a grenade with his body.
Liberalism: Whatever can be done to waste other people's time...
March 25, 2008 - 12:04 ET by R D Helm...and money.
I think most Americans, regardless of their position on Iraq, are getting pretty fed up with the out-of-touch Hollywood America-haters trashing this country at every turn.
I know I was a long, long time ago.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
I bet, if they were to do a
March 25, 2008 - 12:06 ET by bassndudeI bet, if they were to do a movie from the book, "Lone Suvrivor ", they would see a big diffrence in box office. Americans dont mind a look at the war, but they want an honest look. Not hollywoods Goebbels'. And that is what is put out of Hollywood. Stories that Joseph would be proud of. Not Marcus Luttrel. And there in, lies the diffrence. But they dont seem to get it.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
That means no
March 25, 2008 - 12:15 ET by CobraMan"The "bummer" is that each and every one of these movies are aimed at
bringing down America's spirits as far as possible in order to spur the
public to acquiesce to Hollywood's political agenda of ending the war
and tearing down the U.S. military."
America to Hollywood: We disincline to acquiesce to your request to surrender.
Hollywood seems to be following its 1970's War Movie Handbook. This is the one that states that all war movies must portray America as the aggressor and everyone else as a victim. Too bad for Hollywood that this type of format is a proven failure. America wants to see its military as victors and not victims and our troops as heroes and not villains.
These movies are not cheap
March 25, 2008 - 12:29 ET by Clear thinkerThese movies are not cheap to make, so I wonder how long until the investors quit wasting their money?
Or is this more proof that hollywood liberals make terrible capitalists?
"Abstain from McCain"
probably not personally losing any money
March 25, 2008 - 14:55 ET by UndercoverConservativethere's probably plenty of backchannel funding from Soros and various Royal Saud families to make sure there is no personal loss of any of the principals involved. Sure the little "corporations" that are made up just for these films "loses" money but I'm sure there are insurances that come into play to cover these "losses" or other nasty tricks, learned from guys like Uwe Boll.
But the bottom line is, since by law a Corporation shields all it's decision and profit making members from the consequences of their actions, there will never be a reason for investors to quit trying to put anti-American agendas ahead of common business sense.
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
I love it when the liberal
March 25, 2008 - 12:54 ET by Chris NormanI love it when the liberal media (of all types) think they have the country eating out of their hands, and then they're dismayed to find out that, given the choice, the people have rejected the brazenly liberal political crap they've been offered. I can imagine what they're saying in their offices and the Polo Lounge, "These hicks, these ingrates, these red state rubes! I guess we'll have to go back to covertly inserting our liberal beliefs in our movies."
As far as I'm concerned,
March 25, 2008 - 12:41 ET by fitzfongAs far as I'm concerned, they can keep making they're anti-war movies, keep wasting their money, keep failing miserably at the box office...and I'll keep laughing my a** off.
WTH -- and there's ANOTHER
March 25, 2008 - 12:46 ET by Jack BauerWTH -- and there's ANOTHER movie out this Friday...
STOP LOSS
Starring the ever butch Ryan Phillipe as an Iraq vet who refuses to go back.
Would be a bit more convincing if the actor didn't look like someone who cries if one of his three gay assistants cocks up his Latte.
Can I be the first to predict a crash and burn with a $4.2 million first w/e Box Office.
Maybe this LOSS will finally STOP these essentially anti-troop movies. But I doubt it.
Oooh, 4.5 Million is a BOLD
March 25, 2008 - 12:48 ET by BDOooh, 4.5 Million is a BOLD projection. I would go with $3.9M.
Anyone else?
"...an Iraq vet who refuses
March 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by Chris Norman"...an Iraq vet who refuses to go back"
What an inspiring message - it will inspire most people to stay home.
Advertising is already more than expected gross
March 25, 2008 - 12:57 ET by ThisnThatA commercial airs on TV about this movie every 15 minutes. Boy, are they trying to push it. I say keep advertising, because it's driving more people away.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
TnT -- sounds like there's
March 25, 2008 - 13:01 ET by Jack BauerTnT -- sounds like there's no SAVING PRIVATE RYAN PHILLIPE
ooooooh, I wish I had come
March 25, 2008 - 13:44 ET by BDooooooh, I wish I had come up with that one......
Oath of Enlistment
March 25, 2008 - 13:46 ET by CobraManI hate those commercials. Every time I see that jerk complaining about the military "breaking their promise" I want to grab him by the neck and slap him around while he recites his Oath of Enlistment.
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "
That's the same oath I took upon my enlistment and I fully understood what the section about following the orders of the President and Officers appointed over me actually meant. I knew that, even though I enlisted for only three years of active duty, my actual enlistment was for 8 years and I could be called upon to serve the President and our Country at any time and in what ever capacity the President and the military decided was necessary. I even signed my enlistment papers which said as much, and that’s a legal contract! I guess Hollywood doesn't believe in people abiding by their oaths and signed enlistment contracts.
Of all the anti-war movies out today, this one upsets me the most. I’m sure I’m not the only veteran who feels this way.
True CobraMan
March 25, 2008 - 14:27 ET by exLibThis one will tank as the others have.
There have been a few of these movies, like Jarhead, that tried to disguise what is was about, but word got around quick.
I am not in the armed services but it seems pretty obvious to me that when you sign up you bascially give your life over to defend your country and what the Commander and Chief says goes.
The glut of people who enlisted during the Clinton administration expecting a College Education and a quick non-combat exit, i believe are the chief belly-achers.
But Stop Loss is produced
March 25, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Hero SquadBut Stop Loss is produced by MTV Films. Who knows better about military operations, protocol, honor and duty than MTV?
*****
"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will
Who knows
March 25, 2008 - 16:13 ET by CobraMan"Who knows better about military operations, protocol, honor and duty than MTV?"
Nickelodeon. After all, they do serve the same audience.
Can we go with
March 25, 2008 - 19:56 ET by FastEd"Flip this loss"?
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Hollywood is out of touch
March 25, 2008 - 13:01 ET by rbosqueHollywood is out of touch with reality. They hate this country.
Why don't they do a movie about an Army guy who's going back to Iraq because of "stop loss" and IS LOOKING FORWARD to helping those people in Iraq more? No? My son is going back in August and my other son will be going back after him. Are they throwing tantrums and breaking windows? No. Are they contemplating going to Mexico and calling the Army liars? No!
They are going to fullfil their obligations to our nation like many others. If they didn't, I wouldn't call them sons.
Where's Mel and Ridley when you need them?
March 25, 2008 - 13:32 ET by wizardjrMy all time two favorite war movies are "Blackhawk Down" and "We Were Soldiers". It shows the military as people. Some of the characters are a bit exagerated, but I put that down to cinematic license. No movie is perfect, but these are very good. As a Viet Nam era vet, I think Mel's movie is about the only 'good' one for how it portrays the men. I'd love to see these two guys gin up a couple of movies on Desert Storm and some of the occupation battles and firefights (some were pretty intense).
[ my other war movie favorites are "Full Metal Jacket" and "The Siege of Firebase Gloria" ]
All good movies
March 25, 2008 - 14:01 ET by CobraManThose were all good movies but I must confess that my favorite war movie was Kelly's Heroes.
Kelly's Heroes? Uuugh. The
March 25, 2008 - 14:17 ET by Warner Todd HustonKelly's Heroes? Uuugh. The counter culture of the 60's grafted onto WWII!!??
What a horrible film.
Give me Patton any day.
Counter Culture?
March 25, 2008 - 14:33 ET by CobraManThe 60’s Counter Culture would have turned the Nazi’s into misunderstood rebels who were just trying to save the working class and the American military into an illegal invasion force which spread death and destruction every where they went.
I always thought of it as American entrepreneurism in action. After all, they DID “acquire” the gold that the Nazi’s left behind and even talked a German tank commander into helping them. Yea, there was a lot of hippy lingo in the script, but it was the era of the hippy so that doesn’t surprise me.
Being an old fart
March 25, 2008 - 20:14 ET by FastEdI gotta go with "Fighting Seabees" or "Flying Tigers". Then there is "Thiry Seconds Over Tokyo", or "God Is My Co-Pilot". Then, "12 O'clock High", later, "The Great Escape", true story, not so true movie. And, who can forget "The Man Who Never Was"?
Let's recap - bull doziers, P-40's, B-24's, B-17, dirt/motorcycle. Yep, real movies, about americans (couple of Brits) and no apologies.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
FastEd...I'm with you right
March 25, 2008 - 20:40 ET by JerFastEd...I'm with you right down the line. But "who can forget 'The Man Who Never Was'? I guess I can. Who was he?
Jer
Based on a british
March 25, 2008 - 21:27 ET by FastEdoperation "Mincemeat". The brits, with permission of the family, made the germans think they had found a courier carrying invasion plans for Sardinia or Greece and not Sicily. Better and longer description at Wick. If you can find the book, it is a great story. The movie was pretty accurate too, not what we get from hollycant.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Thanks, FastEd...actually I
March 25, 2008 - 21:34 ET by JerThanks, FastEd...actually I am familiar with that story. I just wasn't aware there was a movie about it. I'll look for it.
Jer
Fast Ed: Can you imagine
March 26, 2008 - 10:23 ET by BDFast Ed:
Can you imagine if the New York Times today found out(undoubtedly from a CIA leak) the US was going to plant false orders on the body of a deceased US citizen in an effort to deceive AQ on our intent to go after them?
How long do you think it would be before the NYT would put it on the front page. Then how long do you think it would be before the Lefties would protest in front of the Pentagon about the Military's abuse of the body of a US Citizen?
Platoon for Vietnam movie
March 25, 2008 - 21:40 ET by PawpawNPlatoon was probably the closest to my experience in boot camp and Nam. Other stuff was just anti-war propoganda!
Patton
March 25, 2008 - 20:36 ET by JerIt is absolutely shocking that Patton is not included on the AFI list of the 100 greatest films in American movie history...yet "Tootsie" is.
Also, Saving Private Ryan took war movies to a new level...certainly one of the most intense films I've ever seen.
Jer
Jer,
March 25, 2008 - 20:48 ET by R D HelmPatton was a first rate movie. The first time I saw it, I could almost swear George C. Scott was Patton.
And I agree with you about Saving Private Ryan. The first time I saw it in the theater, I was literally sweating when it ended. It was the most intense, and, according to my acquaintances who have actually experienced combat in war, the most realistic war movie ever made.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
R D...I don't have any idea
March 25, 2008 - 21:09 ET by JerR D...I don't have any idea how many movies I've seen in my lifetime. Aside from those made in the past five years or so, it seems like there are hardly any I've missed.
In my view, George C. Scott's performance in "Patton" is the gold standard. Simply, the best...ever!
Jer
I'll go along with that
March 25, 2008 - 21:30 ET by FastEdbut like all movies, not all the equipment are accurate.
Can we add series? I'd vote for "Band of Brothers". Talk about best.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
If you are referring to
March 25, 2008 - 21:40 ET by JerIf you are referring to military equipment and weaponry, true. But I doubt, for example, there were sufficient numbers of Sherman tanks still around to ensure absolute realism.
Jer
Gotta go with...
March 26, 2008 - 11:18 ET by TheDeuce...Midway. Hey, I was born in '68. My dad, retired Air Force Staff Sargeant, took me to see this one in the theater.
But, if you want to compare the current drek 'war' movies coming outta' Hollywood to flicks that share the same attention to detail and realism, better to go with Independence Day or (Rambo) First Blood. These all have about the same intellectual honesty and real-world parallels.
There's another one coming
March 25, 2008 - 14:38 ET by kevcadThere's another one coming out Friday called Stop-Loss starring Ryan Phillippe, so they just keep on a-comin'. :-(
Start each day with a smile, then get it over with. - W.C. Fields
There is no question that
March 25, 2008 - 16:02 ET by SmartypantsThere is no question that Hollywood's left wing agenda is being rejected by audiences. They can try to spin it that people are tired of the Iraq War, and so they are avoiding war films, but that does not answer the issue at all. In fact, Hollywood has put out dozens of left-wing movies over the past few years that have nothing to do with war, and virtually all of them have bombed at the box office. They try to give credibility to these films by nominating them for Academy Awards, but that is just noise. "Crash" is one such film that comes to mind. The year that piece of work came out, all of the Academy Award nominated movies had left wing themes, and they were all box office disasters. The public at large just does not buy left wing tripe. This is why liberal politicians have to disguise their true intentions and pretend they are not liberal. Hollywood has not learned that lesson yet, or they are too arrogant to acknowledge it.
I think we all know that the
March 25, 2008 - 21:09 ET by balboaI think we all know that the only successful movies are conservative, right wing pieces...
But of course Bal
March 25, 2008 - 21:50 ET by FastEdalways have a right wingman, like the F-9F Panther, flying in "The Bridges at Toko-Ri".
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Yeah...I don't know what
March 25, 2008 - 21:55 ET by balboaYeah...I don't know what that is.
FastEd...ever notice how
March 25, 2008 - 22:01 ET by JerFastEd...ever notice how F-84s were always used in the Korean war flicks to represent MiG-15s?
Jer
Jer,
March 25, 2008 - 22:25 ET by R D HelmI've learned that if you squint really hard, and watch it on the smallest TV you have, the F-84's almost pass as MIGs. :-)
LOL-As for the Shermans, that is a little tougher. I just pretend that whoever's side they are on, be it German, Italian, Japanese or whatever, they had been captured from us by the enemy. :-)
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
I dont pay to see this junk
March 25, 2008 - 18:11 ET by misterbee241I dont pay to see this junk because I want to see the American Fighting Man treated like the hero he is.
Movies like Operation Burma, Destination Tokyo, 12 O'Clock High, Sands of Iwo Jima, They Were Expendable were all movies that while some call them propaganda, were designed to boost the morale of the American public by showing them the kind of men they had on the front lines. I would imagine WWII would have had a different outcome if the characters played by Errol Flynn, Cary Grant and John Wayne had been written as crazed maniac killers.
The movies today are made by the descendants of the old Hollywood 10 commies so it's no surprise America is put in the worst possible light.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
Need I remind you of
March 25, 2008 - 20:16 ET by FastEd"Run Silent, Run Deep"?
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Is it...
March 25, 2008 - 20:21 ET by Warner Todd Huston"Run Silent, Run Deep."
Marcel Marceau making love?
Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal.
Warner!
March 25, 2008 - 20:29 ET by R D HelmLOL-Actually, I think that one was called "Run Silent, Run Shallow."
I mean, the guy was a mime, for crying out loud. A French mime.
I mean, I doubt he had the....oh, nevermind.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Being a mime
March 25, 2008 - 21:32 ET by FastEdwouldn't he be ALONE?!? and if his partner were a mime, would anyone know?!?
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Fast Ed, that was an excellent movie.
March 25, 2008 - 20:57 ET by R D HelmBut the best submarine movie ever made was Das Boot.
I realize it was somewhat of an anti-war film, and it was about a German submarine crew, but I have had several people who have actually served aboard subs in wartime, and I have read the opinions of many who served on subs in WW II, and most agree it to be the most realistic movie of its kind ever made.
I hate to admit this, but I felt a little sorry for the German crew at the end of the movie.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Anyone in the "silent service"
March 25, 2008 - 21:38 ET by FastEdwould have to be special. I've seen both versions of Das Boot, and have to admire the sailors who would run forward to get the boat nose heavy for diving.
As an aside, I've been to the USS Ling, bearthed in the Hackensak River, NJ. A Fleet Class boat, was commissioned at the end of the war (WWII, it was in all the papers), it was one of the first subs to have its own, ready?, first to have an ice cream machine on-board. 99 officers and men made up the compliment, and every space was used for storage, including the excape trunk, at the beginning of the tour. Need to borrd the USS Growler, bearth in the Hudson, next to the Intrepid, when she finishes her "re-fit".
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Fast,
March 25, 2008 - 22:09 ET by R D HelmI've been aboard the Drum, as well as the USS Alabama.
When on the Drum, I can remember what a tiny interior it had. Hell of a way to spend a war. The USS Alabama was the biggest WW II era ship I have ever been on. Big sucker, I thought at the time.
My dad was a Marine on CV-47 (Philipine Sea) in Korea. When he got hosed into a fifth year due to the war, he lucked out and got to be Captain's orderly.
Before that he was an MP and had to guard the brig, and sometimes had to escort prisoners to Leavenworth.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Navy Ships
March 25, 2008 - 22:36 ET by candanceI've been on the Abraham Lincoln and the Ingraham.
I've also toured the North Carolina, as in the WW2 era battleship.
candance,
March 25, 2008 - 22:50 ET by R D HelmI have seen the North Carolina from the outside, but didn't board it. I realize that battleships became obsolete the instant Nagumo ordered the launch of the first wave that attacked Pearl Harbor on that infamous Sunday in 1941, but I have always thought them to be rather impressive ships just the same.
My younger brother lucked out and got to go aboard the Nimitz once. He said it was about the coolest thing he has ever seen.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
well RD
March 25, 2008 - 22:53 ET by candanceI have to be honest, the old timey battle ship was more interesting (to me) than the modern aircraft carrier. Don't get me wrong, they were both fantastic - but the battleship was cooler.
ack!
March 25, 2008 - 22:55 ET by candanceDouble post.
Go Tar Heels!
Go Vols...stomp the heels
March 25, 2008 - 23:21 ET by JerGo Vols...stomp the heels [if Tenn. gets past Louisville, which is doubtful].
Jer
Hey you!
March 25, 2008 - 23:25 ET by candanceWe can respectfully disagree over politics, but I draw the line at college hoops. Aint nobody dissing my bracket!
The way TN and NC are
March 25, 2008 - 23:33 ET by JerThe way TN and NC are currently playing, I predict 126-59 Heels.
Actually, I still haven't gotten over Vandy letting me down. But, I've learned to live with it over the past 40 years.
Jer
LOL-Now Jer's REALLY trying to start something around here.
March 25, 2008 - 23:41 ET by R D HelmBut I think Big Orange is going down to defeat against Louisville.
Sadly, the SEC just isn't much of a factor in the overall scheme of college basketball.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Da Vols
March 25, 2008 - 23:46 ET by candanceWatching them lose to Arkansas was quite painful...especially when Arakansas got beat by Georgia and then got clownstomped by the Heels.
It all depends on which version of the Vols shows up for the game. If the Vols who beat Memphis show up, they can win. If the Vols who lost to Vandy show up, not so much.
"clownstomped"? Is that a
March 25, 2008 - 23:58 ET by Jer"clownstomped"? Is that a Carolina colloquialism, or have you been hanging out with circus geeks again?
But stomp away. Those funny shoes may be big, but they don't hurt.
Jer
What?
March 26, 2008 - 00:00 ET by candanceYou've never heard that saying before? It's quite common.
Sadly, no
March 26, 2008 - 00:07 ET by JerAnd, well, you know what General Rove says about us liberals....We have no life.
Jer
LOL Jer
March 26, 2008 - 00:09 ET by candanceYou know what they say about March Madness...
Life is a game. College basketball is not.
I'll catch you later. I'm
March 26, 2008 - 00:19 ET by JerI'll catch you later. I'm going out back to shoot some hoops.
Jer
candance,
March 26, 2008 - 00:13 ET by R D HelmYeah, I really thought my Dawgs were going to get a lot deeper into the tournament then they did. I was thinking they would at least make it to the sweet sixteen.
Blew that one, I did.
:-(
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
it's all good RD
March 26, 2008 - 00:16 ET by candanceNone of us thought that Drake would lose to Western Kentucky or that Davidson could seriously beat Georgetown...but these things happen, and that's what makes it so much fun to watch!