In another arrogant piece from a "professional" journalist claiming that Internet journalism is "dangerous," one where the writer imagines that he is somehow the personification of truth in "reporting," we get yet another screed on the theme that they are the only ones that should be allowed to be called "journalists." And this one is a hoot, too. In an article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, former journo and current professor David Hazinski seems to imagine that it's the job of the "news industry" to "monitor and regulate" the content of blogs and Internet journalism. No, I'm serious, he really said that! This self aggrandizing piece is so filled with blind assumptions and presumptuous pap that it quite literally boggles the mind.
Lately, we have seen quite a few of these screeds against Internet journalism with nose-in-the-air, self congratulatory philosophies underlying their logic. Hazinski's takes it to the next step, though. In Unfettered 'citizen journalism' too risky, Hazinski, a former NBC correspondent and current professor of telecommunications and head of broadcast news at the University of Georgia's Grady College of Journalism, has graciously deigned to lower himself and his fellow "professionals" to the role of overlord, making sure we ignerint Internet writers conform to the obviously higher standards that he and his fellow journalists employ so successfully in their field -- can you say Dan Rather and Jayson Blair?
Amusingly, Hazinski can't even grant that citizen journalists could be either a citizen or a journalist, it seems, as in nearly every usage of the term he puts scare quotes around the words "citizen journalists" calling the relative truth of both words, singular or combined, into question. Even the title of the piece uses quotes around the words to call into question the legitimacy of the term.
It ranges from the CNN YouTube debates to political blogs to cellphone video of that sniper who opened fire at an Omaha Mall. These are all examples of so called "citizen journalism," the hot new extension of the news business where the audience becomes the reporter.
I love how he says "so called" preceding "citizen journalism." I use that convention a lot myself and I mean it to eviscerate the legitimacy of what follows, not merely to gently question it. Who can doubt that Hazinski is using the "so called" in the self same manner here? I found myself considering his contentious use of quotes in this context, though, as I'd find it more contradictory to say that real journalists themselves are "citizens" of anything, really. Other than their apparently closed fraternity of so-called professionals, of what are they citizens? After all, how many times have we heard news hounds claim that their first loyalty is to the news and not their country?
But, of course, this potentate, jealously guarding his keyboard from the encroachment by the hoi polloi, has determined that what we do "really isn't journalism at all." Worse, he feels it is the duty of his better, smarter kind of folk to somehow "regulate" what happens on the Internet.
Supporters of "citizen journalism" argue it provides independent, accurate, reliable information that the traditional media don't provide. While it has its place, the reality is it really isn't journalism at all, and it opens up information flow to the strong probability of fraud and abuse. The news industry should find some way to monitor and regulate this new trend.
Who does he think he is, the King of all information? Does he imagine that his presumed professorial position somehow has created for him a monarchy wherein he may determine what should be "allowed" to be called "journalism"?
But, wait, his arrogance over what is and is not real journalism gets even funnier as he seems to claim that the USA has missed the boat by allowing "anyone" to claim they're a journalist.
But unlike those other professions, journalism -- at least in the United States -- has never adopted uniform self-regulating standards. There are commonly accepted ethical principals -- two source confirmation of controversial information or the balanced reporting of both sides of a story, for example, but adhering to the principals is voluntary. There is no licensing, testing, mandatory education or boards of review. Most other professions do a poor job of self-regulation, but at least they have mechanisms to regulate themselves. Journalists do not.
Before I go on, did you catch his seeming lamentation that there are no standards for journalism even here in the US? I'll repeat it...
But unlike those other professions, journalism -- at least in the United States -- has never adopted uniform self-regulating standards.
Does this fool realize that the "standards" that exist in other countries aren't "self-regulating" and only exist because the governments there either impose them on all forms of journalism or tyrannically run all news agencies themselves? Does he "get" that there aren't "self-regulating" standards for journalists in much of the world? Mr. Hazinski, do you realize that most news agencies in the world are not free but are controlled and operated by government agencies, government appointees and government thugs? Are those the "standards" you lament us not having, sir?
And, what is the result of a lack of these standards according to Hazinski?
So without any real standards, anyone has a right to declare himself or herself a journalist. Major media outlets also encourage it. Citizen journalism allows them to involve audiences, and it is a free source of information and video. But it is also ripe for abuse.
Hmmm. Like the NYT's Pinch Sulzberger who's "professional" standards and qualifications amounts to his having been born into the family that owns The New York Times? You mean "standards" of professionalism like that?
In any case, it is amusing to any disinterested bystander that Hazinski imagines the world of American journalism has somehow become professional to the point that "standards" rule the industry, anyway. In fact, it is absurd of him to even imagine that, with a free press, there could be such a thing as universally imposed standards. What ever the case, he imagines that HE should dictate what is allowed to be seen by the public and he gives some elitist and oppressive prescriptions to regulate what he wants to call journalism.
- Major news organizations must create standards to substantiate citizen-contributed information and video, and ensure its accuracy and authenticity.
- They should clarify and reinforce their own standards and work through trade organizations to enforce national standards so they have real meaning.
- Journalism schools such as mine at the University of Georgia should create mini-courses to certify citizen journalists in proper ethics and procedures, much as volunteer teachers, paramedics and sheriff's auxiliaries are trained and certified.
In other words, all that is published and seen by the people should be passed through his screening process first! Like the beginning to the old Outer Limits TV show of the 1960s, "We control what you see," is the by words for Mr. David Hazinski. And again with this view that only his select few fellow "professionals" should be the ones to regulate the rest of the content so presumptuously created by the great unwashed on the Internet. I just cannot get over this guy's arrogance. Who the heck does he think he is!?
His last bit is a great topper for arrogant pronunciations.
But we have already seen the line between news and entertainment blur enough to destroy significant credibility. Continuing to do nothing as information flow changes will further erode it. Journalism organizations who choose to do nothing may soon find the line between professional and citizen journalism gone as well as the trust of their audiences.
This fellow obviously knows nothing whatsoever about the history of American journalism, the concepts of liberty, nor the effects of the free market and the discernment of readers. There has never been a time -- and there is certainly not now -- in the history of man where the "news" could be trusted merely because there are supposed to be "standards" involved in its publication. There has never been a source of news that can be trusted merely because they claim to be observing such "standards." What's more, over the years since the birth of Internet journalism, one of the chief products of the medium has been the exposing of the failures, lies, and bias of the so-called professionals. So, how can we trust to Hazinski's "journalism organizations," all of whom have been so continuously lambasted and exposed by this fledgling media, to properly regulate our work?
Lastly, there is no control that Hazinski's vaunted "journalism organizations" can exert that is conducive to liberty or a free press. The basic standard of trustworthiness needed to assure that news is truthful is applied equally to everything whether there be any official agency to impose it or not and readers know this instinctively. The integrity with which the news is published is, was, and always will be a spotty proposition employed by some and not others as we can see by picking up any newspaper or watching any TV news effort. In the end, Hazinski is fooling himself more than anyone else that he and his fellows are somehow more accountable or more "professional" than any one else and that he is any better qualified to judge what is real journalism than anyone who blogs or writes news stories delivered exclusively on the Internet.
But, don't go all confusin' him with truth, will ya?















Comments Policy
Another example
December 14, 2007 - 09:21 ET by sentforth5Just another microcosm of the ever bigger socialist agenda.I get more FACTS just reading the comments on NB! I receive more info and better journalism from everyday people here than all the fossilized papers put together!
The Bulldog nation sends out
December 14, 2007 - 09:36 ET by Free ThinkerThe Bulldog nation sends out its deepest apologies for this embarrassment to education.
The fear is palpable...
December 14, 2007 - 09:41 ET by c5then"While it has its place, the reality is it really isn't journalism at all, and it opens up information flow to the strong probability of fraud and abuse."
One could use that exact sentence when describing the crap that spews forth on NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNBC, NY Times, WaPo, etc., etc.
These so called "professional journalists" are just realy scared that their monopoly over the information dissemination in this country is being compromised. They are seeing their ability to tightly control the ideology of the media is perhaps slipping away. Hazinski is even further mortified that their is really no need to have a so called "journalism degree" to start and maintain one of these blog sites. He sees not only his profession slipping away from his control, but he sees his avocation as an indoctrinator of the leftist ideology to the new generation of so-called "journalists" possibly disappearing.
Oh, the horror of it all. The newest network technology is allowing the return to the olden days of yore, when anyone could become a "journalist" with drive, persaverance and hard work. No degree necessary and no indoctrination into the secret society of elite pompus ass#&les.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
It simply boils down to
December 14, 2007 - 09:44 ET by DaBirdIt simply boils down to this: Report from the Left, nothing else can be trusted or true.
ATLANTA URINAL CONSTIPATION
December 14, 2007 - 10:36 ET by danybhoyI don't believe it's really about right vs. left as opposed to elitist vs. populist. This is a case of that, this clown Dave Hazinski feels the need to censor the news that you consume.
Memo to Hazinski & other likeminded idiots, IF YOU DID YOUR DAMN JOB THE WAY YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO, YOU WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR FROM BLOGGERS. All of you old MSM clowns need to revamp how you present the news, instead you lie, you censor, & you slant your reportage with clear bias.
This guy feels threatened by the alternitive media because it's cutting into the MSM monopoly & exposing them as the biased morons they are. Hazinski's piece about this subject should be seen as another victory against the old, soon to be gone news monopoly.
"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise" Mark Levin
"IF YOU DID YOUR DAMN JOB
December 14, 2007 - 11:01 ET by danbo"IF YOU DID YOUR DAMN JOB THE WAY YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO, YOU WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR FROM BLOGGERS."
An amen seems appropriate adter that.
They're running scared. They've chased off the people they need to support them. And want to force us bay buy not allowing competition.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Warner Todd Huston
December 14, 2007 - 09:49 ET by OldSailor88You are the bomb, dude. You used "potentate" and "hoi polloi" in the same sentence.
I stand in awe. One of these days you'll be as good as Toto. The group not the dog. Read the words to the song Africa.
But, I digress. This paragraph...
So without any real standards, anyone has a right to declare himself or herself a journalist. Major media outlets also encourage it. Citizen journalism allows them to involve audiences, and it is a free source of information and video. But it is also ripe for abuse.
Seems to be written about the MSM. Truth to these people is like water on the Wicked Witch of the West.
This guy's real objection...
December 14, 2007 - 09:55 ET by sarcasmoIs that people like me have finally found some way to monitor, if not regulate, the news media's bias. I'd been looking for years for something like the internet when it finally came along.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
To add to your thought
December 14, 2007 - 11:56 ET by FastEdwho would do the monitoring, and more importantly, who would monitor them? Seems what we have now is working pretty good - otherwise, THEY wouldn't be so scared!
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
WTH, Traditional media is
December 14, 2007 - 09:59 ET by LeonWTH,
Traditional media is terrified of the internet. It's free and it's constantly being updated.
I don't even read a physical paper anymore and all I can think about when I do read an old school newspaper is that by the time it reaches my hands, it's already old news and there are updates waiting in cyber space for me to read.
Hazinski's call for regulation is interesting. While internet news participation is a great example of America's freedom of ideas, it has opened the door for a lot of trash. You could pretty much find an article to support any position on the internet.
Calls for regulation are a little strong, but I wouldn't mind if news websites could register with some agency in the government whereby they could be certified. Once certified, you can put some sort of note or a seal at the bottom of your website. That way people would be able to tell easily whether a site is legit or not. If you don't want to register, you don't have to.
Bad idea.
December 14, 2007 - 10:10 ET by sarcasmoAnother bunch of expensive speech-bureaucrats in a new Federal agency. What we need to do instead is get rid of the FCC and the FEC entirely and SPEND LESS TAX MONEY for once.
Don't like something/someone? Don't listen to 'em. Want a UL type agency to put a fancy seal that won't do any good at all on sites? Use the UL model, and DON'T TAX ME for it. It will work better, and I won't be constantly trying to defund it. After all, I've never tried to defund Underwriter's Laboratories.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Valid point Sarc, Just
December 14, 2007 - 10:13 ET by LeonValid point Sarc,
Just thinking of viable alternatives to regulation which would be anti-american and probably wouldn't work anyways.
I was thinking of using an already existing governmental agency, such as the Department of Commerce or something.
Would it surprise you if...
December 14, 2007 - 10:20 ET by sarcasmoI didn't think our government needed a "department of commerce" along with the other agencies I'd want killed? Probably not. That department is the source of McDonalds-welfare and welfare payments given to a variety of other giant corporations that pretend to be "capitalist" when it's politically convenient.
Anyway, if a regulatory scheme for news is a good idea and actually trustworthy, it will sell in the free marketplace WITHOUT any obese-government tax help from the Department of Anything. IMO the idea that our obese government could possibly function as an arbiter of truth, rather than "truthiness," is laughable. Let them start telling the truth on issues from global warming to the tax and spend drugwar, and I *might* change my mind...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
sarc...be still my heart...we agree again!
December 14, 2007 - 10:54 ET by candanceThe last thing we need is the government monitoring anyone's free speech. You read stuff online, you're smart enough to double check things for yourself, and you end up with a much clearer picture than watching the old media. Yes there are those who don't bother double checking...but those are the same ones who watched Dan Rather's report on Bush without stopping to double check that. Make something idiot proof and they make better idiots.
Funny how the people who claim they want free speech for all suddenly want government intervention on alternative media.
Hazinski's call for
December 14, 2007 - 10:56 ET by dscottHazinski's call for regulation is interesting. While internet news participation is a great example of America's freedom of ideas, it has opened the door for a lot of trash. You could pretty much find an article to support any position on the internet.
Leon, that smacks of the precautionary principle, let's follow that out to it's logical conclusion. Since misleading or lying to the public by journalists is a documented problem (e.g. Jason Blair, etc.), we can solve this problem by banning professional journalists. This is why the precautionary principle is a fallacy, a tool to control. But of course Hazinski insists that standards only be applied to "citizen journalists" not "professional journalists" because we must "assume or give the benefit of the doubt" to the professionals. Hazinski insistance of course is another example of a logical fallacy called Circular Reasoning. Do as I say, not as I do.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Certifying websites
December 14, 2007 - 11:13 ET by KC MulvilleLeon!
I agree with you, basically, but wouldn't go for certifying. Certification always gets down to the promise of "you can trust this guy because we do." That simply postpones the question, because then I have to ask why I should trust the certifier?
The uncomfortable reality is that when it comes to writers and readers, it's more important for readers to learn to read critically than to try and regulate the writers. Readers have to learn to be skeptical. What's revealing is that this "so called" journalist obviously believes that the public shouldn't trust citizen reporters ... but left unsaid is his obvious assumption that the public should trust him! (Why? Because he's a "real" journalist?)
This "so called" journalist doesn't want you to think skeptically about what he writes. He thought that because he went to a journalism school, or because he worked at a newspaper, that he bought credibility, and we owe it to him.
Not from me.
"but how do you test a reporter? "
December 14, 2007 - 11:58 ET by FastEdThat's a simple one - if, after being thrown off a building, they DON'T fly - they were telling the truth. Oh, well, once was enough.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
The uncomfortable reality
December 14, 2007 - 12:21 ET by dscottThe uncomfortable reality is that when it comes to writers and readers, it's more important for readers to learn to read critically than to try and regulate the writers. Readers have to learn to be skeptical. What's revealing is that this "so called" journalist obviously believes that the public shouldn't trust citizen reporters ... but left unsaid is his obvious assumption that the public should trust him! (Why? Because he's a "real" journalist?)
Caveat Emptor! What the MSM wants to avoid is that the news business is NOT a socialistic government funded organization, it's a commercial enterprise that lives and dies by the trust of it's customers. The news is a product, if the product is shoddy, then the customer finds another seller at the price they deem appropriate. The MSM is in a quandry, the product it sells is shoddy and the customer can get equal or better for FREE from the internet from providers who use the same advertising funding source.
The regulation the MSM wants is to exclude customer choice, advertiser choice and hence competition, instead of meeting customer demand for a quality product. It's not just the monopoly of spoon feeding the public with their (MSM) tripe they are after, it's the money that comes from advertisers who subsidize their tripe that they want to keep as well. The claim of news integrity for the public benefit rings hollow, the underlying premise is greed by zero-sum thinking people.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
KC, I agree 100%. Your
December 14, 2007 - 16:43 ET by LeonKC,
I agree 100%. Your idea is way better than mine.
The certifier would be annoying and useless I suppose, ala Tommy Boy's Guarantees Speech.
Most people here would probably disagree with your rational solution to the problem. - get reads to learn to read critically.
The Newsbusters tend to take the approach that most Americans need to be spoon fed information.
wrong again Leon
December 14, 2007 - 22:01 ET by candanceIf you go and read my comment above, I made the point that readers have an obligation to double check facts for themselves and not take anyone in the media at face value.
No one should be spoon fed propaganda, and neither should they have to suffer oppresive laws that limit their access to alternative information.
It's a balancing act - I agree - but government intervention is not the answer.
Bottom line
December 15, 2007 - 01:58 ET by well99There will always be people that just read the headlines,hear a sound bite or accept what a blog says without researching it themselves.Some people are just that way.The good thing about the internet is the ability to actualy find resources which will disprove or prove if the initial information is correct.Old media hasnt figured that out yet.This is a long winded way of saying I agree with you on the double checking of information.
"The news industry should
December 14, 2007 - 10:04 ET by Wolfrem"The news industry should find some way to monitor and regulate this new trend."
My apologies, your majesty, but have you forgotten the 1st Amendment? Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press ring any bells? Oh that's right. Those only apply to you and your ilk when dragged into court over the libel and slander, as well as propoganda, that your industry spews daily.
And in regards to the "possibility of abuse" remark, the MSM already has cornered the market on that one.
Let the revelation revolution prevail!
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana
Major news organizations
December 14, 2007 - 10:09 ET by MidAmericaMajor news organizations must create standards to substantiate citizen-contributed information and video, and ensure its accuracy and authenticity.
NB and other blogs ARE major news organizations. In fact these blogs are international in distrubution while this guys little dead tree and ink news source in Atlanta is a US regional outlet.
His thinking is like the laws that regulated that new fangled invention, the automobile, so they wouldn't interfere with the use of horses.
Those of us who are in
December 14, 2007 - 10:29 ET by danboThose of us who are in professions with standards, there's a cost for voilation of standards and ethics. Including lost of license. What happens when these wonderful "professional" journalist are caught lying?
The net has done to news what the the revolution did for the 13 colonies. Freed it. And took it out of the hands and control of the elites.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
You hit an excellent
December 15, 2007 - 13:15 ET by mattmYou hit an excellent point. Journalism is (or should be) about the free flow of information. If one journalist, or organization, like a newspaper or TV network, lies often enough, they will lose credibility. Once that happens, they can say anything they want an nobody will buy it. This is why they try to demonize 'alternative' media.
The problem they're having is the result of the simple fact that the more free the flow or infomation, the harder it is to get away with lying!
The media monopolists are freaking out over it!
Journalism organizations
December 14, 2007 - 10:15 ET by oorampJournalism organizations who choose to do nothing may soon find the line between professional and citizen journalism gone as well as the trust of their audiences.
I think this phrase is code for that the Internet journalist are going to expose the lies told everyday by the old dying media to the point where the the normal average everyday people will know they are being lied to and no longer trust anything the media says.
I think the media companies already know this. In my area, the vehicles local media people use, at one time, were covered proudly with their stations name and channel number. Now only the satellite truck and a prius wears the brand logo here. They now pull up in unmarked vehicles to do their hit pieces. I believe they took their names off the cars because to many informed people don't put up with their sh*t anymore. I've seen people pull over and give the journos the finger and blow the horn at them on the side of the road while they were doing hit pieces. (O.K. I still give them the finger when I see them).
I know wiwf
that is the most inane statement I have ever heard!
Ouch! That will leave a
December 14, 2007 - 10:25 ET by RMROuch! That will leave a mark. "Professional" enough for you, Dave "the professional"?
ON AMERICAN BLOOD
December 14, 2007 - 10:35 ET by American TaxpayerLiberal left wing media wants exclusive rights to be the only source of news!!! All liberal communist professional journalist that do not support the constitutional right to freedom of speech should be exported to communist countries where state run media outlets will tell you what you can and can not say. How dare you liberal media pukes infringe on the rights of free Americans. You liberal bastards stand on the blood of others to defend a socialistic agenda....How incredibly insulting to all Americans...From now on and forever more I will not even let my bird deficate on your paper...
OMG
December 14, 2007 - 10:37 ET by rbchaffe"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
Why "professional" writers are prone to misinforming readers
December 14, 2007 - 10:58 ET by RJYesterday, prior to publication of the MLB report, someone here posted a list of supposed steroid users that a "professional" writer had put together. (The writer was obviously trying to get a jump on his writing competition.) On that list was Jason Varitek of the Red Sox....but he wasn't on the MLB list of users.
Varitek's reputation was damaged, and some people will continue to think he was a steroid user. There were probably others who were also maligned.
Why does it happen? It's a reality that "professional" writers are often 1) in competition to be "first", 2) working under constant deadline 3) ideologically slanted 4) sloppy 5) unknowingly passing on information that originated from a writer suffering from one or more of the above.
Right here at NB we see, almost daily, the misinformation that comes from these so-called "Professional" writers. They aren't any more, or less, accurate than bloggers. Both need to be fact-checked.
Add a number 6
December 14, 2007 - 19:27 ET by ThisnThat6) not subject to disciplanary procedures when presenting infactual, inflammatory, biased, or opiniated news.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Update: more on misinformation from "professional" writers
December 14, 2007 - 22:18 ET by RJAccording to this update about the early steroid "list" from WNBC, nearly half the players named were not on the officil MLB list.
That grossly inaccurate list was posted not only here at NB, but all over the internet and newswires. Keep in mind the source was a "professional" writer.
As you said, ThisnThat, WNBC has yet to retract or apologize for defaming the players.
I almost don't mind the
December 14, 2007 - 22:22 ET by Warner Todd HustonI almost don't mind the "mistake" if it helps discredit sports. I'd love to see sports eliminated in this country. It is the single biggest waste of money, time and resources in the nation.
Of course, we don't want bad sourcing, agreed.
That's a ridiculous thing to say, Warner
December 14, 2007 - 22:35 ET by RJIn spite of your elitist hatred for sports, I should think you, as a writer, would be outraged over what WNBC did. You almost don't mind dozens of players being defamed? It's guaranteed that many people who read that list continue to believe those players are steroid users, but you almost don't mind. How sad.
So sorry if your personal anti-sports tastes aren't shared, lockstep, by everyone else. Anything else you'd like to "eliminate" by fiat?.....for the good of the populace, of course.
And, while we're on the subject, what's your personal non-work pleasure? Whatever it is, I guarantee there are many who think it's silly, disgusting, a waste of time, etc, etc.
I've defended your positions in the past, Warner, but this makes me wonder about you. Situational ethics, anyone?
Wow is that over the top...
December 14, 2007 - 23:06 ET by Warner Todd HustonI'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not going to suddenly love sports just to make YOU happy!!
I can like you as a person even if you do like sports. And the fact that I don't like sports is enough for you to suddenly hate me makes you look small and rather unhinged. What I would expect from far too many sports fans, really.
Sports does absolutely NOTHING beneficial for ANYONE. (By the way, I'm only talking so-called professional sports here, not all sports in general, really) It teaches nothing worthwhile, it is a wast of time, it is a waste of brain power, it is a waste of money, it corrupts governments, and it is an illegitimate issue for government to focus upon. I am never sadder than when I meet an adult wearing some stupid team jersey who knows every stat of some putrid sports team... yet hasn't the slightest idea who the vice president is. What a waste of brain power has been incurred in such a lowly creature.
Nothing is more absurd than to see some 300 pound, 40 year-old wasting his night watching some stupid game and acting as if HE were part of the team yelling "WE WON" when his favoite team wins a game. Dude, YOU didn't "win" anything. You are sitting on your overweight rear-end, stuffing your face with beer and garbage. YOU didn't do a darn THING to "win" anything but the well deserved heart disease you are slowly building.
Further, sports should be removed form all schools. Not just colleges (though at least there is some justification for it there because you are paying to go and can study what you want, of course), but all schools. We should be spending precious education budgets on art, science, math, music, history, English and the like and not wasting money focusing on useless sports. Sports will not help our children improve themselves nor will it assist them to learn what they need to learn to become productive citizens. IF they need exercise, it isn't a school's job to give it to them.
Sports in community or park leagues are fine. Spots in private capacities is fine. But paid for by state educational dollars? It's a CRIMINAL waste!
Now, we can certainly agree to disagree, and in a democracy, my being out voted on fetid sports is a fact that I can easily live with -- it's not the end of the world, after all. But, once again, if you are so fanatical that you cannot even take a small bit of disagreement over such a pointless and unimportant issue as sports, that you can take my hatred of sports as a reason to turn against me.... well, that says quite a lot about you. And none of it is good.
Have a great day, though.
what about me?
December 14, 2007 - 23:44 ET by candanceI like - well, I like college sports and I'm a die hard Mariners fan. Isn't that a matter of someone provided an in-demand product in a free market?
But I agree with RJ. Regardless of what those guys do for a living, it's not fair that the media smeared them with an untrue charge.
That's like me saying "Oh well I hate politicians so I'm glad someone lied about Ron Paul."
That's amazing, Warner. A rambling, raging sermon
December 15, 2007 - 01:03 ET by RJon your hatred of sports and not once did you address the points in my post. Yet, you call me "fanatical." That's called "projection," Warner. You accuse others of your own behavior.
Yes, part of my post addressed your sports hatred, but the opening and primary focus was on your willingness to overlook the behavior of WNBC....addressing your situational ethics. You have a cavalier attitude toward baseball players being defamed by the media, but it upsets you when that same media maligns bloggers.
If you can control your anti-sports rage, perhaps you can go back and calmly address my post to you.
By the way, to a healthy ego, "wondering" about you because of something you've said would not be construed as "hating you" or "turning against you."
I like sports, but I agree ...
December 15, 2007 - 01:04 ET by Kevin HalpernI am with you on removing sports from all schools, and I started out in journalism as a sports writer. Recreational sports are fine for those who choose to get involved, but it has become too much of a financial drain on our education system.
That said, on a selfish note, sports does provide me with a form of entertainment, as I do enjoy watching a ball game now and ten.
I respectfully disagree
December 15, 2007 - 01:14 ET by candanceThey're already taking music out of schools, and you want sports gone too? A lot of kids look to sports to get scholarships for college or, in the case of Lebron James, a career straight out of high school.
School is supposed to enhance the talents our kids possess. If someone is a fantastic athlete and a team would pay them big bucks, why not let them pursue it in school?
But RJ is still right - his original point was that these athletes were smeared with no proof and we can't just blow it off because we don't like them. It's not slander, it's not hurtful, it's not unethical if it happens to them.
Yes...
December 15, 2007 - 01:47 ET by Warner Todd Huston..I'd remove sports, but I'd never have removed music. Music is beneficial. It has been proven that music improves the ability to learn complex ideas. (soothes the savage beast, as the saying goes)
I agree, though, that it is unconscionable that these guys get smeared with illegal activities they are innocent of.
This WHOLE CONVERSATION is why
December 15, 2007 - 10:15 ET by sarcasmoWe need to remove 100% of the TAX MONEY from schools. Then the market can decide how best to serve those who want 0-sports, 0-music, or 0-whatever without taking money from unwilling others -- by gunpoint in the end if necessary -- and forcing a one size fits all "solution" on people who are guaranteed to disagree with eachother, just as y'all disagree now. Ask yourselves: Does the government know best how to educate kids, or does the free education marketplace?
I see it time and again. I can't believe socialist schools are still so-popular with members of BOTH "major" parties after all these decades of expensive failure, but when I say things like what I said above, people look at me funny...Then they go back to wondering why the schools are failing without thinking about what I actually said. Lather, rinse repeat.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
I agree that all Federal $$
December 15, 2007 - 11:52 ET by Warner Todd HustonI agree that all Federal $$ should be out of schools. But, I don't have a problem with state taxes going for education. It is, however, wildly misspent and I'd make Teacher's unions and employee unions illegal. If you work for the state you should have no union representation. PERIOD. Cop, clerk, Fireman or politician, NO union. They aren't in the pubic interest and ALL of government should be in the public interest.
And, I would agree that if the majority of the local tax base wants sports, they should have them.
But that doesn't make me imagine that sports is any less a waste of money and I;d fight it tooth and nail were I in that electorate.
yeah sarc
December 16, 2007 - 00:34 ET by candanceA lot of Republicans have been calling for privatized schools now for years, but they're considered radicals. Sean Hannity pitched the idea five years ago. Ann Coulter has written about it too. But on the whole the GOP hasn't touched it.
WarnerTH
December 16, 2007 - 14:35 ET by MrShyYour dislike (or "hatred") of sports has added some NB-vs-troll spice to dialogue between NB-only people. It's fascinating how you and RJ are suddenly "duking it out in the ring" (you know, a boxing analogy... thought you'd like that :p)
My oldest brother is like you, with zero interest in sports, and thinks it's a total waste of time and people's brain energy. I, however, love sports -- AND, I am also a musician and consider myself pretty brainy with a mathematical mind. For me, both music and sports (playing it, at least, but watching it as well) soothe my savage beast, and if anything, I find sports does a little more. Also, I play a lot of outdoor/"street"-basketball (and I mean, a LOT -- I'm a real addict.)
Going out and playing in pick-up games with people from different backgrounds is also a great study in the myriad of psychological and emotional characteristics of humans. How each of us interacts with our teammates, the opposing player or team, the degree of selfishness/ego vs. unselfishness each one brings to the court, the competitive nature, etc..
Anyway, to me, it's both a physical release that soothes me, and a cultural/humanistic lesson on a smaller level.
You know you're a pervert when you're a troll like Pervessor TP&C, repeatedly posting perverted things about Mr. Shy's Shywear.
It's amazing what you learn
December 15, 2007 - 17:49 ET by dscottIt's amazing what you learn about people, I would never have guessed your passionate opposition. It sort of came out of left field so to speak. I'm not much of a sports fan myself other than when my kids played little league and soccer. Maybe seeing a game live is more your style if you tried, I'm bored with TV football games, to me it's like watching golf or bowling.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. dscott's corollary: The line between malice and stupidity is called depraved indifference.
Everyone has at least one
December 16, 2007 - 00:29 ET by Warner Todd HustonEveryone has at least one idea that isn't popular with the masses, right?
Take movies. Some HATED "The Godfather," but millions feel it is one of the best American movies ever! Many millions love Rap music. Many more despise it.
Some like broccoli! H.W. Bush hates it.
he he he he he Warner
December 16, 2007 - 00:39 ET by candanceIf you got me going, you'd find there were several issues I have contrary opinions about!
Me too. In fact two of my
December 16, 2007 - 01:07 ET by Warner Todd HustonMe too. In fact two of my contrary views got me in trouble right here on this site this very week!
Nice try at playing the beleaguered victim, Warner
December 16, 2007 - 09:24 ET by RJ...as if you're bravely standing up for some free speech ideal.
Your "contrary" views weren't the cause of your being chastised. You were properly held accountable for your situational ethics, whereby you thought it wasn't much of a problem that it was baseball players who were the victims of Major Media misinformation.
That occured, ironically, in a thread sparked by your column that lamented the way so-called "professional" writers looked down on bloggers.
Your response? A long rant about how and why you hated sports. You managed to toss in some pretty ridiculous charges about "turning against you" and "hating you"....but not a word in answer to the points made in the post itself.
Just keeping it real, as the old saying goes, Warner.
My response is that you
December 16, 2007 - 09:31 ET by Warner Todd HustonMy response is that you can't read. You aren't "keeping it real," so much as trying to cover for your lack of reading comprehension and ignorance.
Nice try, though. Thanks for playing.
Why do you avoid specifics, Warner?
December 16, 2007 - 09:46 ET by RJIt's you who went into an inappropriate rant that had little or nothing to do with my post. It's you who seems unable to respond to specifics with specifics.
I'd rather calmly and logically deal in specifics, but you seem determined to pursue a course of hyperbole and ad hominems. A picture is emerging, Warner.
Hardly. Your claim was I
December 16, 2007 - 11:45 ET by Warner Todd HustonHardly. Your claim was I attacked these sports guys you are so fond of and said it was good they were exposed. Clearly I did not. You made the "ad hominem" to start the ball rolling. I merely replied in kind. A mirror is my recommendation. But, I do understand the inability at introspection. So few are able, of course. It is a very human failing after all.
tsk, tsk, Warner, still practicing ad hominem attacks?
December 16, 2007 - 14:14 ET by RJWell, that's been your style, hasn't it? But, rather than replying in kind, I'll give you some challenges:
Betcha can't produce my "claim that (you) attacked these sports guys."
Betcha can't find my "ad hominem that started the ball rolling."
Betcha can't find anything I've said that shows that I'm "so fond of those sports guys."
Facts are, Warner, the primary focus of my postings have been about 1) WNBC's defamation of the players, and 2) your situational ethics that allowed you to say you almost don't care because they're baseball players 3) that you responded to my post with a ranting, rambling diatribe on why you hated sports and what a poor human specimen I am.
RJ
December 16, 2007 - 12:04 ET by botgyou seem to disagree with the WABC list but are fine with the Mitchell list, is that correct?
"everytime you take a shower, you are a mass murderer" -- the Pervessor
And now the long version...
December 16, 2007 - 12:26 ET by Warner Todd HustonNeither as I have no vested interest in either except in the respect that they be truthful. If one list had incorrect entries, those who do not belong on it clearly need to be vindicated. Hence why I said in the first post that you got all bothered over... and I quote myself:
As this obviously states, lies in the media are anathema, quite whether I appreciate professional sports or not.
As to my lack of enthusiasm over sports, it also does not override my requirement for truth. I'll quote myself again to that effect (with emphasis added):
The word "almost" serving as a disqualifier to my piquant take on sports, you see?
In other words, I hate sports and don't mind too terribly when it suffers discrediting, but not at the cost of the truth.
All this being said, I thought my original post was shorter, more to the point and much more fun.
Truce... or is there more?
hey Warner
December 16, 2007 - 12:43 ET by botgi posted to RJ, thanks for the reply. : ) While i see redeeming value in sports i can appreciate you view. i'll wait for RJ to compare and contrast the two lists.
PS i believe that the courts will be involved most with the Mitchell report, the most differcult part of slander suits is proving financial hurt. With these high profile, endorsment rich people that is not a problem. Well that, and Mitchell, who is on the Red Sox board, has fired a shot across the Yankees bow, Follow the money (and who has the money?)
"everytime you take a shower, you are a mass murderer" -- the Pervessor
Sorry, Warner, but it's still situational ethics
December 16, 2007 - 14:37 ET by RJTry not to take offense again, but when it comes to defamation, there can be no "it's almost ok." Same thing is true about "if it helps" something.
Defamation by the media is either ok or not ok. Ethically, you're either for it or against it. Suggesting otherwise implies that your ethics can be bought when the price is high enough.
I have no problem with a "truce" on this issue, Warner, but I have to caution you that I get testy when someone goes off on me without cause. ;^>
No, botg.That is incorrect. I suggest you (and Warner) read
December 16, 2007 - 13:53 ET by RJthe thread. If you do read the thread (something I wish Warner would do), you'll see I was writing about the fact that nearly half the players listed on the WNBC list were NOT on the Mitchell list. Not only that, but as of that time, although WNBC had removed the list, they hadn't apologized for defaming the players
Warner jumped in and, applying situational ethics, said that he didn't care, because they were sports figures.
If you read the thread sequentially, (something I wish Warner would do) you'll get a clear picture.
RJ
December 16, 2007 - 14:09 ET by botgexactly why i asked the question. Do you believe the Mitchell list?
check here
"everytime you take a shower, you are a mass murderer" -- the Pervessor
That has nothing to do with the subject at hand, botg
December 16, 2007 - 14:19 ET by RJApparently, like Warner, you have decided against reading the thread.
Warner's column is (at least in part) about the "professional" media supposedly being better with facts than bloggers. I used WNBC as an example of why they can't make that claim.
What's your purpose in dragging in the question of whether or not I believe the Mitchell list?
RJ
December 16, 2007 - 14:34 ET by botgRight here at NB we see, almost daily, the misinformation that comes from these so-called "Professional" writers. They aren't any more, or less, accurate than bloggers. Both need to be fact-checked.
just to point out that even the 'credible' sources need fact checking
i equate the Mitchell report to the UN global warming report
"everytime you take a shower, you are a mass murderer" -- the Pervessor
Thanks, botg, but that's still beside the point
December 16, 2007 - 14:49 ET by RJIf you want to attack the credibility of the Mitchell list, be my guest. At least they attempt to back up their allegations.
On the other hand, the WNBC list is a media list (and media is the subject of the thread) that was supposed to represent the names on the Mitchell list. But no attempt was made to provide backup for those allegations....or to apologize.
Man are you spinning your
December 16, 2007 - 22:12 ET by Warner Todd HustonMan are you spinning your brains out! 8 replies in a row to try and stop digging the hole you're in!
Sheese.
And, Warner, each one of them was an ANSWER
December 16, 2007 - 23:17 ET by RJWhat...others get to post but I don't get to respond? How typically illogical of you. By the way, the post you just used to attack me was a conversation with botg, NOT YOU. ;^>
But after getting to really know you in this thread, I'm not at all surprised that, once again, you didn't respond to what I said. In fact, you have yet to respond to anything I've said. You're only capable of attacks.
In another post you offered a "truce", and my response indicated that, given your behavior, it was doubtful that you could be trusted. Looks like I was right AGAIN.
Go on, pat yourself on the
December 16, 2007 - 23:40 ET by Warner Todd HustonGo on, pat yourself on the back. No one else will do it.
Are you stalking me, now, Warner?
December 16, 2007 - 23:51 ET by RJThis thread was a conversation I was having with botg, but you jumped on for more pointless attacks.
From the beginning, I've been practically begging you to respond with specifics to my posts (which obviously get under your skin), but all you have in your quiver are sophomoric one-liners.
Tasks for U: -Learn what
December 17, 2007 - 00:24 ET by Warner Todd HustonTasks for U:
-Learn what stalking means
-Stop being so reactionary
-Get some medication
Um, stalking would mean following me to another thread, Warner
December 17, 2007 - 00:31 ET by RJ...and answering my post to another poster, not with a response to my post but with another attack.
Again, why is it that you are only interested in attacks and insults, rather than responding to specifics?
Warner, if we eliminate
December 15, 2007 - 09:49 ET by danboWarner, if we eliminate sports because it's a waste of money. We should eliminate Hollywood, and much of New York.
And there aren't enough trees to publish the names of Hollywood folks on drugs.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Of all the doom and gloom
December 14, 2007 - 11:57 ET by Clear thinkerOf all the doom and gloom stories this one really shook me.
I'll be damned if someone is going to CONTROL what I want to say.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Letters to the Editor
December 14, 2007 - 19:30 ET by ThisnThatEver written a letter to an editor? I have.
Ever have one of your letters published? I haven't. Now that's control. With so-called "professional" journalists, your opinions can be either cast away, or edited to say what they want.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Same as it ever was
December 14, 2007 - 12:07 ET by third eye"I do not take a single newspaper, nor read one a month, and I feel myself infinitely the happier for it."
--Thomas Jefferson
There is a theory that the
December 14, 2007 - 13:17 ET by drillanwrThere is a theory that the Witch Hunts in Europe (and to some degree in New England) began as the male dominated medical community felt the female mid-wives and their holistic treatments and cures threatened the male physicians' influence and command over the population. By demonizing and discrediting the female mid-wife community, and blaming deaths and illness on their treatments they could use this as evidence of their witchcraft ... David Hazinski is one of those Grand Inquisitors of the terrified MSM that are trying to sound the call for this information/source/news witch hunt.
To be sure, the most facts accurate war news and information I have gotten in the last couple/few years has been found on mostly Milblogs ... Nods to Pat Dollard, Michael Yon, Blackfive (HIGH 5, Uncle Jimbo!), Matt Sanchez, Double Tap Blog, Iraq The Model ... in addition to countless conservative news-driven blogs (HIGH 5 NBs!).
Blogs and "citizen journalists/reporters" ... Doing the jobs, dirty work, research and investigating the Lame, Lazy, Liberal MSM not only fail to do, but refuse to do.
Anyone who wants a good
December 14, 2007 - 13:36 ET by FlashmanAnyone who wants a good laugh should check out this years Media Corrections by the 'Professionals'.
2007 Media Corrections
Flash -
December 14, 2007 - 14:16 ET by drillanwrGreat link ... Thanks!
Hey Bubba!
December 14, 2007 - 15:29 ET by okiehawk44When I was straining to pass one of my classes in statistics in order to get my degree in economics -- it was well established that if you couldn't cut it you could always enroll in either the journalism school or the school of education -- I guess this guy was one of the former.
If people trusted the MSM...
December 15, 2007 - 01:09 ET by Kevin HalpernThere would be no need for sites like NewsBusters, but the truth is journalists are held in lower esteem than Congress. That is the main reason newspaper circulation and network news viewership has been sinking faster than the Titanic.