AFP Report Waters Down Pope's Life-Related Rebuke of Pelosi

Photo of Tom Blumer.

2007-01-04-ABC-WNCG-Pelosi.jpgNancy Pelosi had an audience with the Pope earlier today at the Vatican.

Life Site News (HT Gateway Pundit via Michelle Malkin) covered what the Vatican had to say about that meeting:

Pope Rebukes Pelosi, Tells Her Catholic Legislators Obligated to Protect Life

The Vatican Press Office released a note this morning detailing part of the conversation which Pope Benedict XVI had with Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House of Representatives.  Vatican insiders inform LifeSiteNews.com that such releases are always phrased in diplomatic language and thus the correction of the Speaker who fancies herself a faithful Catholic despite her abortion advocacy can be taken as a rebuke.

The text of the note reads: "His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church's consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development."

Those interested in learning how the press will minimize the Pope's rebuke have an early example to peruse at Agence France-Presse (AFP). It contains the expected watering-down of the rebuke, and more (AFP link is dynamic; its report as it appeared when this post was drafted is here):

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Pope meets Pelosi, speaks of Church teachings on life

Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday told visiting US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Roman Catholic, that all Catholics should uphold the Church's teachings on life.

Benedict "took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church's consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death," the Vatican said in a statement.

These "enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists as well as those responsible for the common good of society to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development," the statement said.

Pelosi, the highest-ranking US official to see the pope since President Barack Obama took office last month, describes herself as an "ardent" Catholic while advocating reproductive rights.

Of course, "advocating reproductive rights" is media code for "ardently" pro-abortion.

If AFP were honest, it would have noted that Pelosi's claim, according to Catholic doctrine, is heresy.

Here’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.

Politicians cannot credibly claim to be practicing Catholics and also support direct abortion. Thus, Pelosi is not a practicing Catholic, let alone an "ardent" one. 

Last year, Pelosi tried to claim that Church teaching is ambivalent on when life begins:

I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator–St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know. The point is, is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose.

Apparently not even at nine months, according to theologian Pelosi, the partial birth abortion-supporting politician. She voted against banning the procedure several times over roughly a decade. At her Speaker's web site, she criticized the April 2007 Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth abortion ban passed during the Bush adminstration as "wrong," and "a significant step backwards."

Her statement excerpted above is self-evident heresy.

AFP's coverage went on to incompletely characterize the state of the two major areas of stem-cell research, and in the process cast the Church's position in a bad light:

The Vatican has also criticised the approval of US authorities for the first human trials using embryonic stemcells of a therapy to help paralysed patients regain movement.

..... Such research may yield cures for Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, Type 1 diabetes, cancer, cardiac degeneration and many other disorders.

AFP makes it seem as if embryonic stem-cell research is the only stem cell-related hope for paralysis, "Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, Type 1 diabetes, cancer, cardiac degeneration and many other disorders," and that only the Church's teaching stand in the way of cures.

That is, of course, a load of rubbish.

The left frame at the web site of Don Margolis (who, to fully disclose, is an outspoken critic of both sides of the stem-cell debate, because he claims that neither side cares about treating patients who need to be treated now), has posts that describe how adult stem-cell research has made progress in fighting over 40 diseases and conditions, including many real success stories involving real people. That list includes most of those AFP identified and seemed to imply as being the sole province of embryonic stem-cell research. Now that many types of adult stem cells have been demonstrated to have pluripotency, the justification for the existence of embryonic stem-cell research seems awfully thin -- especially because even its fans typically acknowledge that progress is "years away" (eighth paragraph at link is just one example).

Yet pretend-Catholic Pelosi and Barack "It's above my pay grade (to say when human rights begin)" Obama appear to be bound and determined to waste federal dollars pursuing the life-taking long-shot.

Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com.

—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters


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the Pope and Nancy Pelosi

I was watching Fox News and the crawl line

at the bottom of the screen had the statement

the Pope issued.  At least they tell the truth.

I'm also glad the Pope had these words with

her, but I'm sure it didn't sink in to the sponge

brain she has.  She's convinced she knows more

than the Pope or anyone of authority other than

her.

In typical liberal style she

In typical liberal style she will simply say that the Pope agreed with her position and not take any further questions on the issue.

From a recovering Catholic

If the Pope really was concerned, I mean really concerned, why doesn't he ex-communicate these politicians? All we have heard the Pope's do is give lip service. It appears they don't have a moral back bone. Send a strong message Pope and kick these people out of your church that do not follow your doctirnes.

Um, the Pope is

Um, the Pope is concerned.

His first duty as Pope is to keep the Catholic faith in unity.  This includes bringing back into the fold Catholics who are sinful and having them repent.  This is part of the reason he lifted the excommunications on the SSPX bishops.  The Pope should not lightly allow or encourage schism in his Church.

I think that we are getting close to excommunications, especially since Pelosi's bishop and, now, the Pope, have advised her.  This is called "due diligence" and Pelosi will have opportunity to repent of her love of abortion before being shown the door (which I would, ultimately, support if she persists).

The Catholic Church cannot, and should not, be influenced by the demands of immedicay and instant gratification that are part of our culture.  It operates according to God's law which may seem pokey to us, but does what it's supposed to to: repeatedly calling the sinful back to life in Christ.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

I respectfully disagree.

The Catholic Church cannot, and should not, be influenced by the demands of immedicay and instant gratification that are part of our culture.  It operates according to God's law which may seem pokey to us, but does what it's supposed to to: repeatedly calling the sinful back to life in Christ.

I respectfully disagree that this is not an instance where the Pope should immediately react. The first duty of the Vicar of Christ is to honor and serve Christ first.

The Pope would not create schism with an adherence to pro-choice excommunications when, as the Bible has recorded, Christ Himself says that it would be far better for someone to be thrown into the ocean with a weight around their neck than to let someone fall into sin ( Luke 17:2 ). Then the Vicar of Christ would be no less forthright than to excommunicate those who hold to a pro-choice agenda that leads too many into sin.

The fact that so many like Pelosi hold to their "faith" and use their votes in Congress to promote a "pro-choice" position so they can get elected makes it only worse that the Pope does not call them on it.

BTW, there is this really great video on Youtube with a 12 year old girl talking about abortion.

Thanks for the link

That 12 year old girl is great. Thanks for the link.

After watching her video, I watched one of the related videos where a priest demonstrated, with a model of a uterus, how an abortion takes place. I've read stories of how abortion procedures take place but watching a visual example is quite different--actually infuriating and unnerving.

I'm not Catholic but Evangelical, and sometimes I wonder if it is a sin not to fight for these babys' lives somehow. And when I mean fight, I mean it literally. Sometimes I feel too passive. I don't believe our call is to the Old Testament times but God did at many times command Jerusalem to fight those in the land of Canaan who were wicked.

In these days, how are we suppose to behave? Too many people mistaken Jesus, God the Son, as a tolerant hippy as if he has never seen or heard the Father's commandments. As Christians, we believe God permits war in the matter of self defense. Isn't the killing of millions of infants a war against an innocent population? Shouldn't we be defending these little ones?

Don't worry, I'm not getting militant but sometimes I wonder how God sees our roles as Christian in this matter.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I would like to offer the

I would like to offer the following for consideration:

Abortion and Excommunication

 

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of the tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men. - Ayn Rand

→ He needs the money

Nancy made a point of thumbing her nose at a well-known Catholic doctrine.

I can think of only one reason the Pope would entertain this heretic at a Holy High Tea.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Please, by all means, get a

Please, by all means, get a hold of Pelosi's contribution records and copies of any checks she may have handed Pope Benedict at this meeting.

Methinks her contributions are such that her parish, and the wider church, can survive just fine without them.

 

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ Another enabler

San Fran Nan's acceptance at the Vatican enables others to feel a sense of validation that their abortion views are venial, at worst.

She spoke, she didn't repent of it, but the pope gave her an audience anyway.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Cool Arrow, we all know

Cool Arrow, we all know what you think of Catholics, so what else would we expect from you?

And no, I'm not going to get into an argument with you, so save your breath.  You stated your opinion; I stated mine.

 

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson

→ motherbelt

I also objected to Fallwell's friendship with Larry Flynt of "Hustler" magazine.

I don't see much difference here.  You're welcome to nitpick distinctions andcall it Catholic bashing.  (While we're not arguing)

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

CA

I was going to chime in above and call you out on not being "cool" again, but you do have a point here and below.  While I have very regard for the current and past popes (and I believe it's to this pope's credit that he is rebuking her to her face), the fact that Mr. Obama "won" the Catholic vote (I shudder), and that there are pro-abortion politicians calling themselves "ardent Catholics, is a scandal that needs to be dealt with.

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

Agreed

As I've said elsewhere ... I'm disgusted by that fact myself.

→ Thanks, lotr

With or without photos, it's an opportunity for San Fran Nan to thumb her nose at the Vatican.  It was my mistake to allow the discussion to degrade into whether or not pictures were taken, as it is unimportant to the facts.

I don't think the President should meet with Ahmadinajad, and I don't think the Pope should give an audience to Nancy Pelosi.

That doesn't mean I hate Blacks, Iranians, Catholics, or Democrats.  Members of all these groups can be good or evil.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

This Pope has impressed

This Pope has impressed me.  He hasn't been excessively forceful, but has sought to maintain the tenets of the Catholic faith.  It's people like Pelosi and other cafeteria Catholics who have watered down the faith to the point where it is unrecognizable.  I don't agree with or believe in many aspects of Catholicism, so I don't call myself Catholic (or Christian for that matter.) 

I seem to remember a line from mass exclaiming that all in participation are Catholic because of their adherence to Catholic principles.  Any who don't follow it are just saying the words and not practicing.  This is one of my pet peeves about the religion, because it's made so easy to follow the words and motions of ritual rather than adhere to the lifestyle promoted.

Baptism

My post below addresses some of this - i.e., being Catholic is more than just belief in doctrines. Once you're baptized, we consider you to be, forever, one of the church. We don't want to throw you out, and most bishops will agree that excommunication is a tragic final step that we want to avoid, whenever possible. But even so, the debate is more complicated than that. Consider this:

  • Most of the Catholic politicians in this category argue that they personally agree with the church's teachings about abortion. (We might be skeptical about their real beliefs, but that's what they say.)
  • These politicians disagree, however, that they must use their political authority to impose that belief on others.
  • So, under what theory can we excommunicate them? They agree with the teaching on abortion itself.

The teaching on abortion is clear, and violation of it is a clear sin. But how a politician is supposed to respond is not nearly as clear. That's why bishops and the pope go slowly. The hierarchy doesn't want to establish a policy of telling politicians how to do politics.

Now, to be sure, I strongly disagree with these weasel politicians on the political issue. They're weasels, and we all know it. But, no matter how strongly we disagree, that's really not an excommunicable offense. If they came out and supported abortion openly, then it's a slam dunk. But if they agree with the teaching, and claim to only disagree on the implementation, that moves the debate onto shakier ground.

I think her ramble on when life begins ....

.... in the post above, combined with her votes to support PBA, and he outrage at the Supremes' PBA decision, should disabuse you of the notion that she "agree(s) with the teaching on abortion itself."

As to patience, I lean towards impatience, because over 1 million babies are being slaughtered every year. I'm not going to claim to be smarter or more divinely inspired than the Pope, but that's a heavy annual price to pay for dallying, and it ought to be figured into the equation.

→ The Pope's rebuke

The Pope should have summoned her to the Vatican if it was his intent to rebuke her.  At the very least, this would have triggered a public dialogue across continents.

Allowing her to take the initiative and turn the visit into a propaganda photo-op was a matter of falling into her plan.

His rebuke should have taken the form of a public statement upholding the Catholic stance against Pelosi's twists.  That's where it should have stopped.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Please, find photos and/or

Please, find photos and/or video of this meeting.  It wasn't a photo-op.  No media was allowed into the meeting.

His rebuke should have taken the form of a public statement upholding the Catholic stance against Pelosi's twists.

He did that.  And more.  He delivered the message directly to Pelosi, where she can't say she "misunderstood" it.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ No cameras?

All I can find is that neither side has released photos.

Are you a liar, (as you claim I am), if such photos surface?

I'll admit to calling it a photo-op.  Possibly I was mistaken, but now you say of a certainty cameras weren't allowed.

We'll see.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Kinda interesting

Kinda interesting what the comment are after the article at the Boston Globe,,encouraging to say the least. 

There are some photos of the Pope and Pelosi, just not the ones in question. : ]

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Quite right CA.

We could now look forward to her campaign literature being adorned with a Planned Parenthood logo and a photo of her with the Pope. Without explaination, the uninformed will equate the two as being compatible with Pelosi's views.

Let's remember

Tom, I agree with you about Pelosi's real beliefs, because as you say, she has provided plenty of evidence. I'd bet the house that she just doesn't give a crap about the church's teachings, and she's ready to advance the pro-choice agenda wherever possible. She's one of those liberals for whom liberalism is her primary religion. But excomunication isn't just a public opposition to someone's beliefs ... it's a condemnation of a real person. It has moral and eternal consequences. It's not something you do unless there are no other alternatives. 

Let's not forget. The pope did admonish her to live up to her responsibilities. The church does stand strongly against abortion.

Forgive me for saying this, because I don't want want to spread out the blame to the point of irrelevance, but let's face facts. As much as the politicians themselves are guilty of moral cowardice, the same applies to the voters who put them in. Who's more guilty of enabling these politicians, the church or the voters? The church didn't put them into office, the people did - usually, I'm sad to say, with substantial Catholic support.

If damnation becomes a common tactic, I'm a little nervous.

I'd bet the house that she

I'd bet the house that she just doesn't give a crap about the church's
teachings, and she's ready to advance the pro-choice agenda wherever
possible.

Of course she doesn't, but she will continue to call  herself  an "ardent" Catholic.

But as Abraham Lincoln reportedly said, "Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson

Of course she doesn't agree

 disabuse you of  the notion that she "agree(s) with the teaching on abortion itself."- Tom Blumer

Of course she doesn't agree with it.

After her dissertation on "when life begins" she said that the point was that "it should not impact a woman's right to choose."

So basically, to her, when life begins doesn't matter at all.

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson

Also, she is committing

Also, she is committing heresy.  Warping church and biblical doctrine to support a sinful act or lifestyle is wrong.  She knows what she is doing and knows that it is contradictory to the teachings of her "faith".  If that's not grounds for excommunication, then what is? 

 

 

obama's notion of bi-partisanship is telling conservatives to shut up and do what he wants.

Just a note, Solrac7

I find your phrase "from a recovering Catholic" extremely offensive.

If you don't want to be a Catholic, fine.

But you have no right to treat Catholicism as a cult, or an addiction, or any other unwanted affliction that one works to be "free" of.

I am finally speaking up because I am sick of having my religion trashed.  It seems that anti-Catholicism is one of the few bigotries that is still tolerated in this country. 

One can disagree with a religion without insulting it. 

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson

I also left the Catholic Church.

But I agree with you here, motherbelt.

Important distinction

Being Catholic is more than just holding particular beliefs; through the sacrament of baptism, you're also part of the family. We don't surrender you easily, even if you publicly renounce us. Let's face it, throughout our history, most Catholics were uneducated peasants - very few believers knew much of the actual theology. So, even today, Catholics have a natural reluctance to publicly reject one of our own, based on an ignorance of theology. To some degree, we're all ignorant of some aspect of theology. So it was perfectly proper for the pope to receive Pelosi, not to validate her ignorance, but as any father would welcome a member of the family. 

But notice what the pope did. He didn't castigate Pelosi for her ignorance of high theology. Instead, he reminded her of the requirements of the natural moral law. That's an important distinction.

  • Know that the media's trick is to report that the church opposes abortion because of something in the Christian bible. If so, anyone who doesn't believe in the Christain bible isn't obligated by it.
  • But the Catholic Church (I will only speak for my own church) doesn't oppose abortion based on the bible. We oppose it because of natural law. We oppose it because we think it's inhuman in the first place, whether you're a believer or not. Natural moral law applies to everyone.
  • The media claims that opposition to abortion is a Catholic thing, or a fundamentalist thing, so that non-Catholics and non-fundamentalists don't have to pay attention. But we Catholics argue that abortion is an offense against humanity. It's a violation against humanity, never mind any theology.

Pelosi can dance around the theology all she wants, but the pope put her on the spot ... she can't claim to be ignorant of the natural moral law.

A very well-written

A very well-written response.

Thank you for articulating what I tried to in my response.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ I see that KC

Even those who publicly lobby for and provide financing for the execution of his children should be given an audience with the (father) whose children are being murdered.

Now I get it.

We'll have to disagree here, since it was her public statements that put her at odds with the Church. 

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Even those who publicly

Even those who publicly lobby for and provide financing for the execution of his children should be given an audience with the (father) whose children are being murdered.

Now I get it.  

And what would you say if Pope Benedict had thrown her bodily from Vatican City?  How about the Pope require all priests to report what happens in confession, jus so he can cull the herd of Catholics who screw up.

The Pope is to the Catholic faithful what a doctor is to his patients.  He spends time with those who are ill - sometimes greviously so - in order to get them well.  His attentions are not solely devoted to his healthy patients.

Refusing to talk to Pelosi (or any other pro-abort Catholic politician) would have accomplished nothing.  This meeting may, ultimately, accomplish litte (and I am sad that I fear Pelosi won't be moved by it), but it does show Pelosi (and others) that the Vatican is still willing to meet with them and - if this ends in excommunication, which it might - that the Pope gave Pelosi et. al. ample time to repent and avoid the consequences of their support of abortion.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ Easy enough

She can visit the city, but should she be allowed to kiss the ring of "The Vicar Of Christ On Earth"?

Should Satan, himself be allowed that privilege?

I'm not advocating any physical expulsion from a city.  I'm saying he shouldn't have given her an audience, and should have publicly expressed his reasons for the refusal.

She can repent and then visit the pope.  He's not her personal confessor.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

The Pope's comments to her,

The Pope's comments to her, as well as the statement issued by the Vatican make it explicitly clear that the Pope doesn't condone Pelosi's (or anyone's) views on abortion.

To say this validates pro-aborts' worldview is disingenuous because the Pope said and did exactly the opposite.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ In other words

Nancy got a photo-op with the pope.

She knew how the American press would handle it.  So did the pope.

Advantage, Pelosi.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Actually, no cameras or

Actually, no cameras or reporters were allowed in the meeting between Pelosi and the Pope.  So it wasn't a photo op.

In fact, a Google search of "Pelosi meets Pope" in Images only shows one from the Pope's visit to America last year.

So nice try, but this wasn't a photo op.

She came to the Vatican not for a party or a coronation, but to meet privately with the Pope.  During that meeting the Pope explicitly said Pelosi had a greater moral obligation to defend life because of her political career.

Only someone with an ulterior motive could interpret this meeting as working to Pelosi's advantage or somehow condoning her views on abortin.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ Ulterior motive?

I'd just as soon the Pope were more astute than this.

He seems to be very smart in his beliefs.  But he handled this all wrong.

No photos?  So what?  I didn't search for photos, and probably shouldn't have used "photo-op" to describe what actually happened.  My mistake.

But you, and I both have an image of the greeting.  Tell me there's no ring-kissing involved.

Why bother?  File footage of previous ring-kissing will do nicely

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Again, there were no

Again, there were no photos.  This was not a photo op.

Anyone with a brain should know that unless (and even when) the Pope talks about the environment or some other cause dear to lefties, they're going to twist his words to suit his agenda.  He can't cease to function because the media is going to misrepresent his words.

I have no image of the meeting because I wasn't there.

The fact that Pelosi was "unavailable for comment" after the meeting does, however, tell me the Pope's message was more than clear.  Pelosi's not one to shut her trap without due motivation.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ Again you say

Again you say, of a certainty, that no cameras were allowed.

I guess I'll have to believe you, but all I find is that no photos have been released.  Big difference.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

I say "no cameras were

I say "no cameras were allowed" with certainty because they weren't.  From Breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96E13500&show_article=1)

VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday told U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, a Catholic who supports abortion rights, that Catholic politicians have a duty to protect life "at all stages of its development," the Vatican said.

Pelosi is the first top Democrat to meet with Benedict since the election of Barack Obama, who won a majority of the Catholic vote despite differences with the Vatican on abortion.

The Vatican released remarks by the pope to Pelosi, saying Benedict spoke of the church's teaching "on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death." That is an expression often used by the pope when expressing opposition to abortion.

Benedict said all Catholics—especially legislators, jurists and political leaders—should work to create "a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development."

Pelosi could not immediately be reached after the 15-minute meeting, which was closed to reporters and photographers. The two met in a small room of a Vatican auditorium after the pope's weekly public audience.

So you will not see a photo of her in this meeting unless she had a hidden camera on her.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

→ Fair enough

I was wrong on the technicality.  There will be no photos of Pelosi at the Vatican.

Advantage still goes to Pelosi.  The heretic met with her Pope and she emerges unflapped.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Why was Pelosi there?

Diplomatically, Pelosi was there as a representative of the United States. The Vatican and Pelosi made it clear beforehand that she was there in an official capacity. The pope isn't going to reject a representative of the U.S., any more than he would reject an official from China, which espouses abortion as a state requirement.

Is Pelosi trying to milk the visit to promote herself to fellow Catholics? Sure, but the pope went and rained on that parade with his rebuke. I don't think Pelosi came out of this with an advantage of any kind. All it did was emphasize that the pope is aware of her contradiction to her faith, and he doesn't approve.

"Unflapped?"

She was "unflapped"?  Really?

I repeat, per the article: Pelosi was unavailable for comment after the meeting.

Which means San Fran Nan - who has a perpetual case of oral diarrhea - was left speechless.

I, for one, consider that rather "flapped"...

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

In regards to photos.

This AP writer says no.

However, she could always use this one after she has some of the background removed by airbrush.

Understood

CA, I have as much loathing for Pelosi as you do, probably more. I think she, along with all the pro-choice Catholic politicians, are the scum of the earth.

But, as I said in an earlier post, so long as these politicians don't publicly disagree with the teaching itself, it's not as simple as you make it. You and I can agree that their public pronouncements about "trying to be faithful to the spirit" of the teaching is all crap. I doubt they believe what they say publicly. I think they're just trying to keep up appearances so they can appease their liberal friends. But so long as they don't publicly disagree with the teaching itself, bishops don't have much leeway. You can't be excommunicated when you agree (or say you do) with the church!

And I would hardly agree that the Catholic church has been lax about our opposition to abortion, or has been an enabler of abortion. With respect, if we have to disagree about that, that's how it'll have to be.

→ Not lax KC

Stalwart, I'd call it.  Thus has it ever been.

It is my opinion, however, that the Pope fell prey to Nancy's plan.  She made a big deal of "Hurry up and pass this bill, I've got an audience with the Pope"

His words to her were true and accurate.  But I believe, given her public statements (being an ardent Catholic, and all that) she shouldn't have been given an audience.

  • When Liberals raise the bar, expect The Limbo

Fair enough

As you probably know, these visits are always controversial, and the Vatican has a method to deal with it. The pattern is that no matter what the pope does, you'll read that many in the Roman Curia didn't approve. In a way, it's all theater. It's the old world Roman bureaucratic method of doing something publicly to maintain civility, while stabbing the target in the back. Vatican watchers never watch the hand that's extended - they also watch what the other hand is doing. That's often more revealing.

"But the Catholic

"But the Catholic Church ... doesn't oppose abortion based on the bible. We oppose it because of natural law. We oppose it because we think it's inhuman in the first place, whether you're a believer or not."

"It's a violation against humanity, never mind any theology."

Great points, KC, and so true.  The only parenthetical that I want to add is that, make no mistake about it, any honest study of the Bible will reveal that Abortion is a mortal sin, a grave offense against the Author of Life.  Thus, while one may commit grave sin through the act of abortion, one blasphemes the Holy Ghost by proclaiming oneself to be a (redeemed) "Christian" while simultaneously proclaiming the "pro-choice gospel."

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

That about sums it up in a

That about sums it up in a nutshell.  Very edifying, and only takes a minute or two to read.  It's uplifting to see that sanity still exists out there, if only in small pockets here and there.  Thanks!

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

Death-Cult High-Priestess...

I can just picture princess Pelosi, her smile frozen in a death's head rictus; "thoughtfuly" nodding her head, and pretending to listen to the Pope's sermonette on the value of life. I'm sure He did his pastorial best but alas...He's dealing with one of the High Priestess of the Death Cult wing of the Democrat Party..

__________________________ 

Long Live...THE REPUBLIC !

HMMMMMMMm

 

 Wouldn't this be a great country if Pelosis mother had aborted her??? 

Abortion: how the 21st

Abortion: how the 21st century does human sacrifice.

"enjoin all Catholics, and

"enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists as well as those responsible for the common good of society to work in cooperation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development,"

 

Being a non-Catholic myself (Methodist) I am proud of the Pope for defending the unborn.

We're all batting for the

We're all batting for the same team here.

 

 

obama's notion of bi-partisanship is telling conservatives to shut up and do what he wants.

The Pope told her!

Nan's holy and pure act is GROSS.

 

I don't think you mean to imply

that everyone granted an audience with the Pope is without sin ....

It really is a mute point if she agrees with the Pope , the fact is she 'heard' him....and not only did she hear him but we all now have heard Pope Benedict make it clear to Nancy Pelosi ...now it truly is her 'CHOICE"...

Pelosi

Jessie R. Hamby                Nancy Pelosi is a whore & i can prove it! She takes money from people & screws them. Just ask the California people who got an IOU instead of their tax refund. Now she has her sights on the rest of the country. I think Barney Frank is her pimp!

Reproductive rights?

... while advocating reproductive rights.

What's 'reproductive' about abortion? Liberals are clever wordsmiths.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason

Bolton/KEYES 2012 

Good point.  Pro-lifers

Good point.  Pro-lifers are most certainly not against the "right to reproduction."

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe