According the Associated Press, "Ask AP" is "a weekly Q&A column where AP journalists respond to readers' questions about the news."
Given how biased the wire service's news reporting is, you wouldn't expect "Ask AP" responses to be very different. They usually aren't.
Case in point (second question at link) -- Reader Cindy Garcia of Vista, California asked AP about the costs and benefits of illegal immigration:
I hear so many conflicting stories on illegal immigration. Please tell me if you can how much the illegal immigrants contribute to the economy and how much they use in free services. If they all got deported, how would it affect our economy?
Here is the sadly incorrect and incomplete answer from AP writers Laura Wides-Munoz in Miami, Jacques Billeaud in Phoenix, and Suzanne Gamboa in Washington (bolds are mine):
It's tough to say how many people are in the U.S. illegally, let alone how many are working or using public resources. Every study uses rough estimates. Still, we do have some clues.
Illegal immigrants contribute to the economy whenever they pay sales tax and, indirectly through rent payments, real estate taxes.
Also, those who use false Social Security numbers pay taxes into the system they don't get back, since people here illegally aren't eligible to receive Social Security payments. In 2003 alone, the government received Social Security taxes on $57.8 billion from wage reports that couldn't be matched to the person filing.
Illegal immigrants are excluded from most federal and state entitlements like subsidized housing or food stamps, and a 2007 congressional report found they appear to contribute more than they use in services. But the money they contribute often goes to federal and state coffers, while many services they benefit from, such as health and law enforcement, come out of local government budgets.
Several studies show more than half of the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants are uninsured (out of a total of 47 million uninsured people in the U.S.) and thus likely to use public emergency rooms that treat everyone regardless of ability to pay. It's difficult to calculate the amount of free health care - or, for that matter, free public-school education - they benefit from, since it simply isn't known what proportion of these services go to people who are in the country illegally.
Another cost of illegal immigrants: Their willingness to accept low wages drives down wages in some industries. Then again, if immigrants didn't take these jobs, some of them might get outsourced overseas.
Using Pew Hispanic Center and U.S. Census statistics, the independent economic research firm the Perryman Group concluded that if all illegal immigrants were deported, agriculture would lose nearly a quarter of its workers, the building maintenance industry would lose 17 percent and the construction industry would lose almost 15 percent.
Even though Garcia asked "how much the illegal immigrants contribute" and "use in free services," note that only one dollar amount appeared in the AP trio's answer, and that even this amount, dressed up as a "benefit," wasn't the actual amount of the benefit.
I believe that the one item quantified, the "$57.8 billion from wage reports" is meant to make the real benefit look bigger than it really is. If the $57.8 billion in wages is correct, the 15.3% combined employer and employee FICA and Medicare taxes on that amount would be $8.84 billion. Why didn't the trio calculate and present that easily deduced number? Perhaps there were also federal and state taxes withheld on those wage amounts, but I would expect them to be minimal, as illegals would normally claim as many exemptions as possible to minimize withholdings. The total windfall to governments is at best $10 billion - $12 billion, and may be less if Earned Income Tax Credit fraud is significant.
While the 2007 Congressional Budget Office Report (page linking to PDF is here) didn't calculate any kind of nationwide figures, the AP trio avoided quite a few specifics in the CBO report that would have given reader Garcia a more meaningful answer.
The first and most glaring is on Page 6 -- "The SSA assumes that about half of unauthorized immigrants pay Social Security taxes." If that's the case, and your viewpoint is that any worker, legal or not, should be paying those taxes and working on becoming a citizen so they can ultimately collect the related benefits at retirement, that lost tax revenue offsets the windfall without eventual retirement benefits described earlier.
This turns the cost-benefit question into a pretty simple one: Do the sales and (mostly indirect) real estate taxes illegals pay offset the costs, principally medical care, public education, and incremental law enforcement?
Again, the trio chose to avoid specifics, even though they are in CBO's report to an admittedly limited extent. A few examples:
- (Page 8) Minnesota estimated that, "during the 2003–2004 school year, (its) state and local governments ..... spent between $79 million and $118 million to educate an estimated 9,400 to 14,000 children who were unauthorized immigrants." If the Gopher State's estimate is acccurate, the lowest possible per-child cost at the time was $5,643 ($79 mililion divided by 14,000). Using a more current per-child cost of about $6,000, and projecting that over a lowball estimate of 2 million illegal-immigrant children, leads to an annual cost of roughly $12 billion nationwide. (Wiki has an estimate of 4.7 million children, but that includes "birthright citizens. I'm using 2 million to show how going with even low-range assumptions generates huge costs).
- (Page 10) In Texas in 2006, "the state estimated that local governments incurred $1.4 billion in uncompensated costs for health care and law enforcement." Project that cost, which applies to Texas's estimated 14% of the illegal immigrant population, over the entire country, and you get another $10 billion or so ($1.4 billion divided by .14).
These factors alone add up to a lowball estimate of $22 billion, or $1,833 for every illegal man, woman, and child (assuming 12 million illegals). Though I'm open to seeing contrary evidence, I don't see how anyone can credibly make the case that a family of four illegals typically pays over $7,300 (4 x $1,833) directly or indirectly into the system. The trio of AP writers certainly didn't make that case.
Further, all of this shakily assumes that a more-than-minor percentage of illegals hasn't figured out how to get onto entitlement programs like Food Stamps or Section 8 housing. My estimate also assumes that "law enforcement" includes incarceration costs; it is not clear whether the $10 billion estimate above really captures all of that. Unfortunately, Page 9 of the CBO report also repeated the proven-false canard that "in general, immigrants are less likely than native-born citizens to be incarcerated."
The CBO report also excludes the unquantifiable but very real impact of wage depression the "Ask AP" writers cited. That cost is probably not small. If ten million workers are being paid just 50 cents an hour less than they would have been without the unfair competition from illegals, that's over ten billion dollars in lost income (50 cents times 2,080 hours times 10 million workers is $10.4 billion).
The "Ask AP" answer was weak, but unfortunately characteristic, of discussions and coverage of matters relating to illegal immigration nationwide. It will remain that way until the press gets over its political correctness and its allergy to numbers.
Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com.
—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters



















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thanks for doing the numbers
August 20, 2008 - 13:36 ET by wizardjrI'm getting more and more demanding these days of "show me the data." It's like the BS number of a million dead Iraqis since the occupation started. Even with the previous 500,000 claim it came out to nearly 350 dead people per DAY every day for four years (at the time of the claim). Somebody would have noticed a slaughter of that size.
These cover ups and bogus numbers by the libtards in the press are getting deconstructed more regularly now a days, and a good thing too. The problem lies in the fact that only those of us intelligent enough to get news from somewhere besides the lame stream media are seeing the real facts. The rest of the sheeple just keep swallowing the Koolaid.
allow me to love
August 20, 2008 - 13:57 ET by JIMMY1660allow me to love America
for the life of me-we need a photo ID to get on a plane, use a credit card-why is there no photo, along with fingerprints, retinal scan on our SSN card?? eliminates all this nonsense.
The "Ask AP" answer was
August 20, 2008 - 13:39 ET by bigtimerThe "Ask AP" answer was weak, but unfortunately characteristic, of discussions and coverage of matters relating to illegal immigration nationwide. It will remain that way until the press gets over its political correctness and its allergy to numbers.
Well we will be waiting for that for a long while...Dobbs, Beck and a few others may report on this all...I am waiting for this to be a major issue in the campaign before Nov. 4th...this is high on the majority of peoples voting issues too.
I was hoping this would come up last Saturday with Warren's forum.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Immigrants
August 20, 2008 - 13:42 ET by rick007Hmmm If as it's assumed that they are paid substandard wages, doesn;t that mean they would not have to pay any income tax?
Most live 1<>4 familys in a residence.
They get food assistance for their children for school lunches.
They get free health care.
Send them back and make the 10's of thousands on welfare to do their jobs. Just think if a person had to work for a living instead of Uncle paying them to sit on their asses and use dope maby they might start staying in school and get an education.
It's also assuming
August 20, 2008 - 13:56 ET by Subsailor599It's also assuming that the illegals are actually on a company's payroll. What about the ones that get paid in cash?
Libs And Illegals
August 20, 2008 - 13:59 ET by JDWSFG: Libs are attempting to shield illegal immigrant felons from both the law and personal responsibility.
JDW
DAILY WAVE
Rhetorical question...
August 20, 2008 - 23:42 ET by Scout FinchWhom do those stats help?
Two observations from the story
August 20, 2008 - 14:04 ET by danhat<blockquote>Another cost of illegal immigrants: Their willingness to accept low
wages drives down wages in some industries. Then again, if immigrants
didn't take these jobs, some of them might get outsourced overseas.</blockquote>
I grew up in an area with lots of hispanic immigrant workers; mostly on fruit farms and in nurseries. Could someone explain to me how I outsource picking apples and planting plants "overseas?"
</blockquote>Using Pew Hispanic Center and U.S. Census statistics, the
independent economic research firm the Perryman Group concluded that if
all illegal immigrants were deported, agriculture would lose nearly a
quarter of its workers, the building maintenance industry would lose 17
percent and the construction industry would lose almost 15 percent.</blockquote>
I would guess that this would make a dent in our already relatively low unemployment rate.
On a side note, and do NOT quote this but, I think I remember reading that Oklahoma really clamped down on illegals - there is a reason this word exists and a reason we use it in this instance - and their unemployment rate was something like 3%. Coincidence?
++++++++++++++++
Normally I don't root for the disease. But in your case I am willing to make and exception.
You were correct. I first noticed it in April, ....
August 20, 2008 - 14:20 ET by Tom Blumer.... and you're still in essence correct, because OK's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate is still only 4.1%, well below the national average. I scanned quickly don't think any larger state has a lower unemployment rate.
Not seasonally adjusted, it's 4.0%.
And the media is alternatively trying to ignore the effect of the new laws or claim it's a coincidence.
Danhat, you are correct
August 20, 2008 - 14:22 ET by bassndudeDanhat, you are correct that Oklahoma cracked down on illegals. Droped to 3.1% in march, down from 4% the March before. There are some in the state tho that wish to undo the law. Mostly those that used the illegals. Most all of the illegals here went to Kansas, Mo and Texas. At least they left here and we are doing fine. Economy moving right along. Employment well below the national average, (oil you know).
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
thanks
August 20, 2008 - 14:34 ET by danhatThanks for squaring away the numbers for me. I thought I was close.
Now if I can just find a way to outsource picking my apple trees to India, I will be all set.*
++++++++++++++++
Normally I don't root for the disease. But in your case I am willing to make and exception.
*I don't really own any apple trees. Just trying to be sarcastic :)
Good points all Tom,
August 20, 2008 - 14:16 ET by dscottGood points all Tom, however, I take a more "comprehensive" view (you can skip the first two paragraphs of historial background) of the taxpayer subsidy of the illegal immigrant in the US. By my reckoning it's $565 billion a year since 10 - 20 million illegals are displacing low skill/wage workers forcing them to draw government benefits of all kinds from Food Stamps to unemployment insurance. Illegals don't draw benefits directly but indirectly via displacement, had they not been taking jobs, then all those low skill US citizens would be occupying those jobs at higher wages. Wages would have gone higher because of competition to attract their labor.
On SS alone, The $189 billion figure I referenced to Social Security receipts from mismatched SS#s over a ten year period not one year or $18.9 billion per SS.
Take a look at page 6 of this SS document when SS did a representative sampling and look at the income distribution where most fraud occurs with illegals. Very interesting...
Reading further:
Therefore, we estimate that the 60 sample cases represent approximately 16,580 cases of potential SSN misuse related to noncitizens enumerated in CY 2000 who were not authorized to work in the U.S. economy and had prior year wages posted to their records (see Appendix D for our estimation methodology).
Somehow I think the number estimated is way too low or possibly it really means SS believes a total of approx. 16,580 SS #s are being used by multiple illegals for each SS#.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
dscott, you of course raise great points ....
August 20, 2008 - 14:26 ET by Tom Blumer.... as I was just trying to get to the point that AP is obviously wrong to be so wishy-washy, when you don't even have to (relatively) break a sweat to show that costs are greater than benefits.
What you're describing is the reverse of welfare reform, though traditional "welfare" is often not involved. To the extent that citizens are forced into longer unemployment (or even turned into discouraged workers), actual welfare (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families), food stamps (whose rolls are skyrocketing), and other programs, those are huge out-of-pocket and unaccounted for costs.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg had
August 20, 2008 - 14:31 ET by motherbeltMayor Michael Bloomberg had this to say about wind power (give me a minute; you'll see where I'm going)....
"I think it would be a thing of beauty," said the Mayor, "if, when Lady
Liberty looks out on the horizon, she not only welcomes new immigrants,
but lights their way with a torch powered by an ocean windfarm."
Maybe some should tell Hizzoner that by boat into NY harbor is not the preferred method of immigration any more.
it gets even worse in regards to encarceration or arrest.
August 20, 2008 - 17:41 ET by UndercoverConservativeI doubt my county is the only one, but Department of Corrections here in Santa Clara County made it policy years ago that it is not allowed to query into an inmate's immigration status. Even worse, you are *not allowed* to contact Immigration authorities if you do know or suspect illegal immigration status to verify!
And when it comes to social services, MediCAL and Medicaid, social workers are not only told to not inquire about children's immigration status, but are told to actively counsel their clients to not reveal their status. it's almost like some kind of Miranda reading where they will interrupt clients who might choose to be honest about their illegality and tell them to keep quiet about their lawbreaking.
Yes, I've personally witnessed this. I'm not even going to get into the voting fraud, the real costs for victims of stolen ID's and SSN's and the organized brutal gangs that are created from illegals and their huge presence in CA prisons.
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
"You spend your money anyway you want and respect other's rights to do the same"
Certainly no Economics Majors at AP!!!
August 20, 2008 - 19:04 ET by DowitchPlease. How can anyone be taken seriously on this topic when their answer begins with:
"Illegal immigrants contribute to the economy whenever they pay sales tax and, indirectly through rent payments, real estate taxes."
TAXES contribute to the economy? Apparently the concept of the economy being a measure of shared productivity is beyond them -- and they think it's simply a measure of government procurement. No wonder they can't even understand the question!
rick007 AMEN!
August 20, 2008 - 19:36 ET by Cape ConservativeIt is time to replace all welfare recipients with workers - if they want a check, let them earn it like the rest of us!
Send all illegals home NOW! It can be done, one illegal at a time!
Great post Mr Blumer, but I
August 20, 2008 - 20:57 ET by dmntd1Great post Mr Blumer, but I think your $10-12B is a little high.... by twice I'd say!
In the work I used to be in, the workers (temp workers, almost all of them) would almost always claim 9 dependents. This puts a mere 10% TOTAL tax burden, including the State, Fed and all the other BS required deductions.
Fascism is a religious conception in which man is seen in his imminent relationship with a superior law and with an objective will that transcends the particular individual - Mussolini
Maybe I wasn't clear enough ....
August 20, 2008 - 21:04 ET by Tom BlumerThe $10-12 bil included the $8.84 bill in Social Security. So the state and Fed withholding windfall (because illegals don't file tax returns to get their withholdings back..... I hope), is only $1.16 bil to $3.16 bil in my estimate.
So your point is very well taken. I'm sure that the large majority of illegals who pose as legit employees declare the max number of exemptions that will still avoid further IRS and state scrutiny. For the feds, that's nine.
So your 10-12 includes the
August 20, 2008 - 21:33 ET by dmntd1So your 10-12 includes the employer paid portion. My bad, I misunderstood.
One might be surprised how easy it is to game the IRS if you're not legal, or concerned in any way about the potential repercusions.
Fascism is a religious conception in which man is seen in his imminent relationship with a superior law and with an objective will that transcends the particular individual - Mussolini
dmntd1...
August 20, 2008 - 21:48 ET by Clear thinkerSame here. Every Hispanic worker that we ever hired put down 6 dependents. It did not matter if they were 18 years of age or 68 years, they all did the same thing. With turnover over the years, we had over 1,000 do the very same thing. Not one ever claimed any different. I actually had non-hispanic employees complain to my HR guy all the time about it.
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