Paul Krugman clearly isn't lacking in chutzpah.
His January 11, 2008 New York Times column ("The Comeback Continent"; HT Tom Maguire via Instapundit) is yet another in a seemingly endless series of attempts by economic statists to convince people in the US that we need to be more like Europe -- specifically Western Europe -- and less like the growth-driven, market-based capitalists that we still largely are.
Here is part of what Krugman wrote in a remarkably fact-free column:
.... tales of a moribund Europe are greatly exaggerated.
..... I don’t want to exaggerate the good news. Europe continues to have many economic problems. But who doesn’t? The fact is that Europe’s economy looks a lot better now — both in absolute terms and compared with our economy — than it did a decade ago.
Story Continues Below Ad ↓..... What European countries definitely haven’t done is dismantle their strong social safety nets. Universal health care is a given. So are a variety of programs that support families in trouble, helping protect Europeans from the extreme poverty all too common in this country. All of this costs money — even though European countries spend far less on health care than we do — and European taxes are very high by U.S. standards.
Well, Krugman is partially right. Parts of Europe are doing better. The only trouble is that the parts doing better are the ones not embracing the high-tax, high-spending model Krugman so adores.
Here, from this Wikipedia entry, are the real growth rates in Gross Domestic Product in 2006 for the US and various EU countries:
Latvia - 11.9%
Estonia - 11.4%
Slovakia - 8.3%
Lithuania - 7.2%
Czech Republic - 6.2%
Poland - 6.1%
Luxembourg - 5.7%
Bulgaria - 5.5%
Ireland - 5.2%
Finland - 4.9%
Hungary - 3.8%
Greece - 3.6%
Spain - 3.6%
USA - 3.3%
Austria - 3.2%
Norway - 3.0%
Denmark - 3.0%
Netherlands - 2.9%
Switzerland - 2.9%
EU as a whole - 2.9%
UK - 2.7%
Belgium - 2.5%
France - 2.3%
Germany - 2.2%
Italy - 1.6%
Portugal - 1.2%
It doesn't take a lot of examination to note that:
- Overall EU growth still trails the US, and most likely will do so again this year. The first three quarters of US annualized GDP growth came in at 0.6%, 3.8%, and 4.9%.
- The countries Krugman would prefer that we imitate -- France, Germany, the UK, and Italy -- still trailed the US in GDP growth in 2006. Germany's performance, while still mediocre, has improved since a less-leftist government headed by Angela Merkel took power in November 2005. One would hope that the center-right government of Nicholas Sarkozy in France that won election in May 2006 can improve that country's situation.
- Newer EU members countries, including many that are adhering more closely to a low tax, flat tax, and/or less regulatory model are the ones bringing up the EU's overall GDP growth to near 3%. These would include countries that Krugman would prefer to ignore, particulary Ireland and the Baltic states, which have used frequent supply-side tax cuts to boost their economies.
So let's see -- The US is still outperforming the EU; the two big underperformers of Western Europe are moving, if in halting steps, away from the cradle-to-grave nanny state of their predecessors; and the EU's growth stars are for the most part the countries that have embraced free-market economics.
Other than that, Krugman has a point. (/sarcasm)
Cross-posted at BizzyBlog.com.
—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Ecotard Krugman
January 14, 2008 - 00:50 ET by Lame CherryEurope is a festering cesspool of Hillary Clinton policy, Teddy Kennedy policy and what ever Keynsian economic retard policies.
For those who do not know, Keynsian was established by John Maynard Keynes, a shill for the banking cartels who since they couldn't get Stalin to enslave Europe to fleece it.........they came up with the Karl Marx of insane economics.
Keynes dogma was one of, no growth, government control, stagnant wages and that way there would never be any depressions..........yeah and that way rich elitists kept all the money and the frogs of France all sucked the government nipple and died miserable.
ALL of the poorly performing western European economies are this socialist ecotard non economies. America slipped into this cesspool too until that "nu" as Keynes called him, Milton Friedman, created a disciple known as Ronald Reagan.
Reaganomics are what drove America and South America until the cartels raped Brazil etc.. and bankrupted them and installed communists to centralize the fleecing process.
The reason eastern Europe is exploding in Economic Growth is because they are implementing Friedman or Reaganomics, 23% flat tax on high earners, no poor people pay taxes and wide open business investment.
This is what America should be implementing but Krugman is too ecotard to figure that out.
Sarkozy is attempting to implement Reaganomics but is being fought tooth and nail by socialist whiners like Krugman.
I will not go as far as Mr. Blume in attempting to make America sound worthwhile as we exist in a socialist state akin to the Nazi regime of government control of "invested capital into large businesses" and are fast sinking into a communist system of our citizens economically are being impoverished to only work for benefits and be wards of the state.
As I have attempted here to get the GOP discussing this, in placing my economic plan on this site, America can have Ronald Reagan and the 1950's economic boom again, if they would just implement it and stop those cursed democrats taxing everything to buy votes.
Oh and as a sidenote, I wrote here about the United States opening up ocean mining to drive our economy into prosperity.........gee whiz THE NEW CONSERVATIVE SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT IS ADVOCATING using cheap North Korean labor to mine Siberian wealth.
America would use cheap robotics and technology..........so as I have proven right in South Korea doing it on a smaller scale, why is no one implementing this policy so our citizens can all be wealthy, healthy, moral and afford to care for themselves in areas God expects us to deal with?
I will say it again.........Fred Thompson or whoever is going to be President, email me and I can educate you in 15 minutes for free on what needs to be done........let us stop making Americans suffer as this is ridiculous.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
If Europe wants to stage a
January 14, 2008 - 01:21 ET by rbosqueIf Europe wants to stage a comeback, they need to throw away socialism and return to a moral foundation. Socialism and Sharia law have had a bad record for prosperity.
STUPIDITY...
January 14, 2008 - 08:42 ET by danybhoyPaul Krugman is an elitist @$$, & he might want to look at Mark Steyn's book "America Alone" & look into the demography of Europe. The low European birthrate will kill Europe as Paul Krugman knows it.
Memo to Krugman- "America Alone", Read it, learn it, live it. Europe is on the slow road to hell/sharia, check into it Pauly, pull your head out & open your eyes.
"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise" Mark Levin
My goodness, why don't
January 14, 2008 - 01:45 ET by Gary P JacksonMy goodness, why don't these idiots move to Europe. Seriously, why don't they leave? Hey, go to Canada, or something. If I hated where I lived has as much as these jag-offs, I'd move!
If they can't afford it, I'm sure one or more of us would be willing to set up a foundation and take donations to help these nimrods with all or part of their moving expenses.
I have a dream.............!
Imagine a world without the
January 14, 2008 - 02:20 ET by robert108Imagine a world without the US as both market and consumer. How well would any country be doing without the US to buy their stuff?
NYTCO
January 14, 2008 - 02:35 ET by GlidedonYou forgot NYT stock down last 5 years from $49 to $16
The pride we have for our
January 14, 2008 - 03:40 ET by Atomic CrusaderThe pride we have for our troops is very special.
I've lived in Germany now
January 14, 2008 - 06:11 ET by Full MonteI've lived in Germany now for the past 18 months. There is a serious population problem here - it's getting smaller and it is expect to have a huge impact on the economy if something isn't done about it.
People don't want to have babies because they don't feel they are financially prepared to start families.
There is a "brain-drain" here (give you one guess where they are going). While many Germans are emmigrating from here, they are replaced by immigrants from Eastern Europe, many of whom end up on welfare.
All of this can be attributed to high taxes.
A German colleague of mine says her salary is taxed in excess of 50% (no, she is not in the top 3% of wage earners in this country - she probably doesn't even make the average wage here). On top of her income taxes, she and everyone else here (including me!) have to pay a 19% sales tax on everything we buy.
I'd like to see Krugman come here and pay the taxes the locals have to pay. I'm sure he'd change his tune.
Stealing from Robert
January 14, 2008 - 08:26 ET by motherbeltStealing from Robert Kennedy, Krugman sees things the way he wants them to be and says "I say so; therefore they are!"
I especially like Krugman's referral to "helping protect Europeans from the extreme poverty all too common in this country"
Mr. Krugman, would that be the poverty in which "poor" families own homes with air conditioning, dishwashers, microwave ovens, TV's (sometimes more than one), cars (again, sometimes more than one), computers, cell phones, etc?
your math is wrong.
January 14, 2008 - 09:44 ET by crsheddthe average for the numbers you gave for the eu is 4.62, not 2.9.
therefore, the eu is outperforming the us by 1.72.
kinda makes this whole post moot.
I would suspect you have to
January 14, 2008 - 10:09 ET by Hunter12I would suspect you have to take the GDP and population into account. You can't just add up the cited percents and divide by the number of countries. Latvia at 11.9% averaged in with Germany at 2.2% would probably come out around 2.20001%, if you do the actual dollars and people involved. The Latvian percentage is signifigant as a statistics in showing what Germany might achieve if they had a tax model similar to theirs.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
TY Hunter12. You took the
January 14, 2008 - 11:40 ET by obxrayTY Hunter12. You took the words out of my mouth.
bad math???...ever heard of weighted averages
January 14, 2008 - 10:10 ET by LionKingDo you really think that Latvia contributes as much to the EU as France?
Oh for crying out loud
January 14, 2008 - 10:16 ET by Tom Blumercrshedd, please tell me you're not serious:
- The overall EU average is RIGHT THERE, IN BOLD -- 2.9%. That is LESS THAN the USA's 3.3%. It's part of the same Wiki link where the individual country numbers came from. Zheesh.
- That's because the EU's figure is a WEIGHTED average. France, Germany, and the UK bring down the raw, unweighted average you calculated because they have higher populations by far than, for example, the better-performing Baltic states.
- Keep this up, and you too can qualify to be a Krugman intern.
UPDATE: Thanks to Hunter12 and LionKing for pitching in.
i'd like to see your math
January 14, 2008 - 10:25 ET by crsheddi'd like to see your math showing how each country is weighed.
could you include your formula? i have to admit it has been quite a while since my graduate stats classes.
i apolgize. i didn't know that bold font makes it true.
i also forgot that this site takes wikipedia as gospel on all matters. my bad.
How about using common
January 14, 2008 - 10:25 ET by Jack BauerHow about using common sense? Or is that beyond you?
The total populations of Germany, France, Italy and the UK is approximately 275 million.
It is THEIR growth rate that determines the "average" growth of the EU as a whole. Not 5 million Latvians.
Come on.
Oh yea Jack
January 14, 2008 - 10:35 ET by well99Leave Estonia out of it.Their 1,342,409 people are going to be ticked at you.
well - actually I'd guessed
January 14, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Jack Bauerwell - actually I'd guessed the Latvian population... it is in fact the incredibly impressive...
2,259,810, or a MASSIVE
Wow that almost as much
January 14, 2008 - 10:49 ET by well99Wow that almost as much people as China.Well maybe not.
population of france,
January 14, 2008 - 10:52 ET by crsheddpopulation of france, germany, italy, and united kingdom: 263,769,674.
population of rest of european union: 229,349,487.
source:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/europa.htm
sorry, i tried to find the info on wikipedia, seems to be an excellent source, but i could not.
So just 4 countries in the
January 14, 2008 - 11:25 ET by Jack BauerSo just 4 countries in the 27 country EU have 54% of the population.
And the other 23 have 48% of the population.
Add Spain's 40 million, and that gives 62% of the population residing in just 5 countries.
Thank you for proving all our points.
crshed
January 14, 2008 - 13:30 ET by AgnosticPossibly by %GDP of Total EU GDP
Latvia 29,200.0 0.2% 11.9% 0.0236%
==> GDP of 29,200 (million) is 0.2% of the EU GDP of 14.9 (Trillion)
==> The 11.9% is weighted for .2% of Total EU GDP Growth resulting in 0.0236%
Largest five by GDP (numbers in the same order as above):
France 1,900,000.0 12.9% 2.3% 0.2967%
Italy 1,900,000.0 12.9% 1.6% 0.2064%
Spain 1,300,000.0 8.8% 3.6% 0.3168%
United Kingom 2,700,000.0 18.3% 2.7% 0.4941%
Germany 2,600,000.0 17.6% 2.2% 0.3872%
Tom, I think the Krugman
January 14, 2008 - 10:24 ET by Hunter12Tom, I think the Krugman intern has to act as Mo Dowd's escort to all press functions at the NYT. I think a poor understanding of math is punishment enough in and of itself.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
The "average"?? Did you
January 14, 2008 - 10:21 ET by Jack BauerThe "average"??
Did you seriously add all the percentage growth rates and divide then by the number of countries to achieve your so-called growth average?
Please say you didn't do that. Because if you did, that has to be the most stupid "reasoning" I've seen in a long time.
please show me the 'right'
January 14, 2008 - 10:22 ET by crsheddplease show me the 'right' math.
You're an idiot. No
January 14, 2008 - 10:30 ET by Jack BauerSo you did just divide the growth rates with the countries to acheive your "average."
Ho ho ho.
You're an idiot. No doubt.
But hey, if you want to carry on embarrassing yourself, be our guest.
During my undergrad studies,
January 14, 2008 - 10:32 ET by Hunter12During my undergrad studies, we were the last group of engineers who were allowed to take a general studies statistics class. We kind of wrecked the curve.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Hunter, you CANNOT tell
January 14, 2008 - 10:39 ET by Jack BauerHunter, you CANNOT tell liberals ANYTHING. The desired outcome trumps everything, including common sense.
It is that desired outcome
January 14, 2008 - 10:59 ET by Hunter12It is that desired outcome thing. I'm sure when he saw those numbers, he thought "That has to be wrong." Looking at the percentages without considering the number of people and the dollars involved looked like a quick way to "disprove" Tom's post. He's probably out scouring EU sites to get different numbers. All the libs look at that universal health care thingy and get misty-eyed. They have to ignore all the people who either die on the waiting lists or take "health" vacations to India to get medical care. I'm sure Krugman would watch his family members suffer or perish on some organ replacement surgery list when the socialized medicine they all seem to want becomes a reality with President Shillary or Obama, because thats what the system would call for and asking for special privileges based on wealth or connections would be wrong.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Now, Jack, you are just
January 14, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Roger the ShrubberNow, Jack, you are just perpetuating the "Newsbusters is mean to whiny, indignant liberals" stereotype. I demand you apologize IMMEDIATELY for pointing out that the whiny, indignant socialist's math was wrong. It was CORRECT in crsped's head, therefore he/she/it deserves a gold star for his/her/its forehead, not admonishment, you vicious, right-wing hatemonger.
shrubbo, yeah, well I had
January 14, 2008 - 10:54 ET by Jack Bauershrubbo, yeah, well I had my sausages, eggs, bacon, hash browns, swallowed down with a gallon of strong black coffee this morning, so I am feeling feisty.
But you are correct. Thanks to today's stunningly intelligent liberal teachers, we all have to strive to ensure every answer is treated as correct, even when it's wrong.
So I apologize. Becasue it is important that kids aren't made to feel bad about being wrong.
Easy Math Story Problems
January 14, 2008 - 11:28 ET by Hunter12Q). If all the people in Latvia were named Ivan and all the people in Germany were named Herman and all the Ivans in Latvia had two dollars and they gave one of those dollars to a Herman in Germany, how many dollars would the Hermans in Germany have?
A). 2,300,000 million would have one dollar and 80,000,000 would be saying "Where's my dollar?"
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Discuss the issue...
January 14, 2008 - 11:47 ET by SyriusPlease refrain from calling people names. Discuss the issue, make your points, rebut the facts. Facts use the facts.
1 Euro= $1.4875 US...
...as of today.
In 2005, The US with Japan have the lowest tax revenue to GDP for industrialized countries.
Just using some small facts.
S
I (and quite a few others)
January 14, 2008 - 11:59 ET by Jack BauerI (and quite a few others) rebutted the idiotic crsshed and his ignorant use of "statistics."
But thank for trying to divert attention. As to your "facts," they are like mad woman's shit (as we say around here.) As in - all over the place.
My dog has fleas. Just another small fact you might care to discuss.
Hunter, Say it isn't so!
January 14, 2008 - 12:11 ET by Hunter12Syrius, Here a site that shows, when it comes to measuring economies, the good ol' US of A is the gold standard all others are measured against.
We Provide the Facts… You Make the Decisions The IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook analyzes and ranks the ability of nations to create and maintain an environment that sustains the competitiveness of enterprises. The 2007 edition is based on:
323 Criteria (2/3 hard data, 1/3 executive opinion survey)
55 Countries Analyzed
50 Partner Institutes Worldwide
The data are grouped into 4 main factors:
Economic Performance
Government Efficiency
Business Efficiency
Infrastructure
The IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook is an invaluable tool in determining investment plans and location assessment. It also provides essential information for government leaders to benchmark policies.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
... And another thing...
January 14, 2008 - 12:24 ET by Hunter12I would suspect Europe would like to see that margin disappear. The value of the euro against the dollar makes the US a good tourist destination:
"The U.S. Department of Commerce announced that 5.3 million international visitors traveled to the United States in July 2007, an increase of nine percent over July 2006. Total visitation for the first seven months of 2007 was up over eight percent from the same period in 2006."
Plus, you don't get blown up over here as you travel around the country and there is no such thing as "Abe Lincoln's Revenge", i.e., you can drink the water.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
...and another...
January 14, 2008 - 13:24 ET by DarkCurrentPretty much the same point, but on a larger scale - a lower dollar to Euro exchange rate also makes US export products more cost competative in Euro markets, which is obviously good for the US trade balance.
I lived in Japan and worked for an export-dependent company during the bubble years of the mid-80s ~ early 90s, a time when the value of the yen was rapidly increasing realative to the USD. The company almost went out of business due to "en-daka" (high value yen). Goes to show that a currency increasing in exchange rate value is not necessarily good for the local economy.
Sarcastically reporting the economy
January 14, 2008 - 13:41 ET by AgnosticYou don't think the media would report the economy as such:
Republican President
=> Weak Dollar = Bad Economy
=> High Trade Deficit = Bad Economy
Democrat President
=> Weak Dollar = Good Economy due to lowering trade deficit
=> High trade dollar = Good Economy due to strong dollar
They would never be that unfair!
I'd be surprised if it wasn't reported that way
January 14, 2008 - 14:42 ET by DarkCurrentI've seen enough to expect exactly the presentation you outlined.
Now I live in China, working for a US company. My salary is paid in RMB, a currency that is generally considered under-valued. The government here is opposed to international pressure to allow the currency to trade freely, since they know it will rise rapidly relative to the USD and that would be a bad thing for an export-driven economy.
It seems when you want an economy to generate exports and support growth, keeping the value of your currency down is the way to go.
Was Jack incorrect in
January 14, 2008 - 13:45 ET by Roger the ShrubberWas Jack incorrect in pointing our that your comrade was acting like an idiot? I mean, your poor comrade had numerous chances to stop, but kept on posting, digging that hole deeper, even though NUMEROUS people pointed out his error. Sounds idiotic to me, or illogical. Perhaps your comrade's critical-thinking skills were crippled by the zeal to prove how WRONG Newsbusters was. Doing what your tagline once claimed: exposing the critics of liberal media bias, correct? Are you complaining so vociferously because your comrade's less-than-flattering behavior today hits a little too close to home?
shrubbster... you can lead
January 14, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Jack Bauershrubbster... you can lead a liberal to logic but you can't make him think!
I blame myself.
I did invite him to keep embarrassing himself on that "average" point, and he obliged!
Or as Ed Koch once told a
January 14, 2008 - 16:52 ET by Chris NormanOr as Ed Koch once told a reporter, "I can explain this to you. I can't comprehend it for you."
Wow you just got owned,
January 14, 2008 - 11:08 ET by taterWow you just got owned, pwned, or whatever the internet geeks call it these days.
Although I find it even more amuzing that the majority of the countries showing growth (over the US) are former communist countries. Goes to show even something as bad as the EU is wayyyy better for economic growth than communism.
Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns
crshedd
January 14, 2008 - 11:13 ET by Tom BlumerProof that the 2.9% for the EU is right is here (third para).
Wiki is a time-saving convenience that has to pass the smell test before I refer to it. Given my general knowledge of what's going on and how comprehensive the list was, I felt that it passed the smell test. The link I found shows that my sense of smell remains intact.
Of all the things to try to pick on ......
Any time I see the name Paul
January 14, 2008 - 11:34 ET by obxrayAny time I see the name Paul Krugman I just laugh. Come on NB, no need to report anything this wide eye commy freak does.
Suggested Reading for Krugman
January 14, 2008 - 11:45 ET by Hunter12Here's what some of the German economists are thinking is driving the recovery of the German economy, up to 2.2% from a very dismal 1.4% a few years ago:
"Private supply-side reforms in Germany are what caused the recovery – not government labour market and welfare state reforms. Further real wage cuts, generic labour and welfare reforms, or radical changes in corporate governance might not help. Future reform should focus on the functioning of the labour market without undermining the core labour system."
"Germany has finally gotten aboard the train of labour market, supply-side oriented reforms initiated by Europe’s success stories -- Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, and the UK. Italy and France would do well to follow suit
After almost a decade of slump, the German economy is finally growing again. Between 1995 and 2005, annual real growth averaged a meagre 1.4%, compared with 3.2% in the US, 2.9% in the UK, 2.1% in France and Denmark and 2.7% in the Netherlands."
I guess the people living in the reality have a different view about which country has an economic model to copy.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
"One would hope that the
January 14, 2008 - 12:27 ET by Chris Norman"One would hope that the center-right government of Nicholas Sarkozy in France that won election in May 2006 can improve that country's situation."
Unfortunately, the welfare state has been so institutionalized in these countires that all conservative (relative to socialists)governments can do now is nibble at the edges and maybe slow the slide.
Post-communist GDP growth vs. Socialist Statism growth
January 14, 2008 - 13:17 ET by reasonsjesterIf one examines the list of GDP growth for these states one can detect that the more rebellious a state is against communism (and the Russian-dominated CIS) the better its economic numbers are. Wow, what a surprise Krugly - your hope that we won't notice WHO exactly you are talking about when you refer to the EU numbers is very quixotic. People who would read your column would probably have enough horse sense to know your implied correlation of GDP growth and statism is sheer window dressing. Good post.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. - Marcus Aurelius
I wonder who gave Krugman his degree.
January 14, 2008 - 14:42 ET by Hunter12I bet they're proud! How did he get a pundit's pulpit at the NYT as well? Just for fun [NYT Stock Quote]:
15.73 -0.27 (-1.69%) Jan 14 1:15pm ET
Open:
16.18
High:
16.18
Low:
15.63
Volume:
895,049
Avg Vol:
2,094,000
Mkt Cap:
2.26B
Down 400% in 4 year ($48.60 on Jan30, 2004)
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Marxist U. Or FU. One of
January 14, 2008 - 14:44 ET by Jack BauerMarxist U.
Or FU. One of them 'U's.
Egads, it's rubbing off.
January 14, 2008 - 14:53 ET by Hunter12That's only 300%. 400% would be really bad. Of course there are two weeks left for it to fall the $3.38 that would make it 400% off in 4 years.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill