You could call it progress in media bias. For years, liberal journalists have blamed Team Bush for the death of hundreds in Hurricane Katrina. The major media found that theme of fatal incompetence simply irresistible. Time’s Michael Grunwald, who has written in-depth articles and a book about the Army Corps of Engineers, is bringing the focus back to long-standing government policies over decades.
But even Grunwald is using harsh language that Time magazine would usually disparage as talk-radio bluster. He said "Hurricane Katrina was a man-made disaster. And some of us have been screaming about that for several years...those of us who have followed this -- you know, we‘re angry about the Army Corps killing 1,000 people."
The occasion to revisit Katrina came from federal District Judge Stanwood Duval, who ruled in favor of plaintiffs who sued the federal government for compensation over hurricane damage. Duval charged the Army Corps with "monumental negligence" in its maintenance of a man-made shipping channel called the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet:
MADDOW: First of all, let me ask you if I've just got the essentials right. I mean, this is history and law and science. And I don't pretend that I totally understand all of this. Have I misstated anything?
GRUNWALD: I think you got the basics, Rachel. I think, you know, Hurricane Katrina was a manmade disaster. And some of us have been screaming about that for several years.
Now, unfortunately, the main problems that the Army Corps had involved this sort of the way they built the levees, the way they designed them, the way they engineered them. The levees were a mess. But you can‘t sue them over the levees.
It is true that this Mississippi River gulf outlet did sort of intensify and amplify and increase the velocity of the storm surge. Everybody always knew that this was really kind of a hurricane highway pointed at the city‘s gut.
So that sort of provided a loophole for this judge to say, "Hey, the Army Corps -- you‘re allowed legally to screw up your flood protection, but you can‘t build a navigation channel." It‘s like if, you know, a Navy cruiser bumped into these levees and broke them, you know, the Navy would be responsible.
MADDOW: Well, as you say, the narrowness of this ruling is mostly because of the legal constraints here and the legal precedents and the laws that prohibit you from suing them for some other specific things. But despite that narrowness, do you see this as having a bigger political impact than just the potential for people being paid compensation?
GRUNWALD: Well, it‘s interesting. I mean, you could sort of sense in the judge‘s anger at the Army Corps, which he felt was misleading him, you know, was sort of cooking the books to try to make the case that the gulf outlet didn‘t matter, which has really been a pattern with the Army Corps.
And of course, you know, those of us who have followed this -- you know, we‘re angry about the Army Corps killing 1,000 people. Now, that said, it‘s really hard to make the case that the Mississippi River gulf outlet is the -- you know, the best example or even, you know, a primary example of the way that the corps screwed up.
But you know, I think this will provide a hook for people to say, "Hey, you know, the federal government did this. You know, this wasn‘t the fault of people living in harm‘s way. They were put in harm‘s way. Now, what can we do about it?"
This is where liberal journalists fail to be moderate enough to be trusted by political independents. It's scientifically ridiculous to insist Katrina was a "man-made disaster," as if the Bush administration or the Army Corps created the hurricane and directed it into New Orleans.
It's liberal political pandering to insist that there people living "in harm's way" should never be judged as irresponsible for failing to evacuate.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
All the areas that
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 07:31 ET by MidAmericaAll the areas that flooded should be bulldozed and returned to swamp. Letting people to live in a hole below sea level is just a disaster waiting to happen again.
Exactly my argument. Why
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:01 ET by mangExactly my argument. Why isn't the local government liable for allowing homes to be built in such a dangerously flood-prone area? One could argue that if they allowed construction, that implies that these homes should be safe. Naaaah, it's just easier to blame Bush.
They should be held liable,
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:42 ET by RowaneThey should be held liable, alright. Liable for using the FEDERAL (read tax) money meant to maintain and repair the levees for politicians' pet projects.
Personally, I'm WAY past caring about the causes of Katrina, when the people were relocated they showed they deserved no consideration.
"You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you
know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would
necessarily skyrocket" - Barack Hussain Obama
The Mississippi River Gulf Outlet or MRGO
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:06 ET by richb313The Missisippi River Gulf Outlet has been in existence for decades. It was a shortcut to the Gulf of Mexico. Was it a good idea, probably not. It caused alot of Salt Water Intrusion that destroyed the Marsh that helped protect New Orleans. I do not know, but if someone bothers to research this they will probably find that the original idea for this shortcut did not Originate with the Army Corps of Engineers but some where else.
The Judge in this case made a stupid ruling. This case should never have been allowed to go to trial. I live in Louisiana and have lived in the New Orleans Metro Area for years before returning to Thibodaux so I am very familiar with all the local issues.
The problem was not the levees but the lack of a Sea Gate that could have slowed or de-energized the Storm Surge coming up the M.R.G.O. These methods have been used in the Netherlands Successfully. Most of the New Orleans Drainage System is based on the Netherlands Model, that is why Engineers from the Netherlands came over after Katrina to offer thier assisatnce to improve Drainage and Storm Protection.
What has to be understood is that no system is perfect. There will be failures. The human failure was in the Evacuation which is a local responsibility. Warnings were given but the time was short. Katrinas path was being adjusted daily and it was not until about 36 hours before the storm hit that the Path really targeted New Orleans. The Federal Govt. including President Bush warned New Orleans long before the official Path was predicted to impact New Orleans. The problem was the lack of local response.
Hurricanes are an act of Nature. The damages done by them can only be moderated, not prevented. That is why I say the Judges Ruling was stupid.
Under Bush a ruling such as
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:18 ET by ricklailUnder Bush a ruling such as this would be appealed. Obama won't. It will become a way to get welfare to buy the votes of NO.
Semper suprene nitens
There is no point dwelling on all the foolish mistakes we have made in our lives. For one thing, it can be very time-consuming. Dr. Thomas Sowell
IMHO If you want to
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:32 ET by danboIMHO If you want to understand what went wrong for Katrina. All you have to do is look back about 6 weeks before Katrina. And the behavior of prople like Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin when Hurricane Dennis was targeted at NO. Dennis changed courses east. Katrina didn't.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
EXACTLY, danbo
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:41 ET by Cape Conservativeand the sheer incompetence exhibited by the local and state officials has NEVER been addressed. If they want to point their finger and place blame, they'd better check to see where all those other fingers are pointing! Nagin was the biggest loser of all...talk about LACK of leadership! And the governor telling Washington in the days ahead of Katrina that she did NOT need any federal assistance...she could handle it. RIGHT!!!!
Mr. Time Magazine would drop dead before accepting the fact that there was MAJOR corruption in the Louisiana political world where dollars designated for Corps of Engineers work wasn't always used as intended. No! No! No! We must place the blame on the Bush administration...the Corps of Engineers...ANYWHERE but where it properly rests!!!!
I say New Orleans should be left without rebuilding any of the affected areas. Perhaps Mother Nature is trying to tell people to use a little common sense and NOT build BELOW sea level! Let the land go back to its original design.
This comment comes from a proud Tea Party attendee, otherwise designated by Homeland Security as a Domestic Right Wing Terrorist! And now by our president as a 'swiftboater' - both titles I'll wear proudly!
It is no dishonor to be in a minority in the cause of liberty and virtue ~ Sam Adams
202.224.3121 LET CONGRESS HEAR THE ROAR OF THE SILENT MAJORITY!
202.456.1111 WHITE HOUSE COMMENT LINE
Kind funny coming from someone in Mass
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:04 ET by general companyI say New Orleans should be left without rebuilding any of the affected
areas. Perhaps Mother Nature is trying to tell people to use a
little common sense and NOT build BELOW sea level! Let the land
go back to its original design.
I agree, I think they should head on up to Mass so they can continue receiving their Gov handout without interruption. Because they all receive them,, ya know
You folks act like these developments were built right before Katrina. Amazing, really?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Heck. David Duke once
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:20 ET by danboHeck. David Duke once wanted to move people like me to a new tribal homeland. New Francia. Which he want to put in Maine.
I still won't do it. Too danged cold up there.
I like doing Christmas shopping in shorts.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
You would think David would know
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:41 ET by general companyArcadian drift wood wont drift upstream, yep we love it here also. I am a transplant, but the great folks here convinced me to stay.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Nice link. Though I'm
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:24 ET by danboNice link.
Though I'm more here, or here.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Great, we saw
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 14:20 ET by general companyAmanda Shaw a few years ago at Voodo, she was great. We also like to go see these guys
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I had an old house in New
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:08 ET by danboI had an old house in New Orleans 9th ward. It was built in the 1830's. Built before the levees. And about 4 feet off the ground.
Though I left NO a long time ago, I understand the house didn't flood during Katrina. It can be done.
I still love NO. But too many people are waiting for someone else to make everything ok. And the politicians made it difficult for those who were ready and willing to get back to rebuild. The media and too many politicians are among those people.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
gc & danbo - you're right...any discontents could certainly
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:41 ET by Cape Conservativecome on up to the most socialistic state in the union (aka liberal heaven - oops, except many don't believe in heaven) and continue to receive their handouts. Who knows, they might even be able to get a place in public housing next to Aunt Zetuni. So it gets a little cold ;-) There are a few of us conservatives who continue sticking pins in their cushions every once in a while though.
My mentioning the return of the land was intended not for all who were devastated by the hurricane, but only to those low-lying areas that would be susceptible in the future. If I remember correctly, South Carolina refused to allow permits for beach houses that were destroyed during recent hurricanes. In the last nor'easter, Cape Cod lost one of its shore cottages to the storm.
It does seem to me that Mother Nature generally ends up having her way no matter what man thinks he can do to deter her ;-) Can you imagine what will happen to all the mansions built on the man-made 'palm tree islands' in Dubai if a major storm hits there?
So...you two enjoy your warm weather as we prepare for our short days and evening meals by the fire. After many years of Florida living, four seasons are most welcome to me - however the 'political' environment leaves MUCH to be desired ;-)
Thanks for the invite Cape,
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:53 ET by general companyexcept many don't believe in heaven
Well actualy here they do.
I almost hate to ask, so did the former home owners just loose their investment in SC?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I live about a mile north
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:02 ET by danboI live about a mile north of the bay. (St Louis) Two houses from me took water. (We have no levees. Don't want them.) Katrina's high tide was 30 feet above normal around here.
Do you know how much land will be left barren.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Danbo: Regarding the land
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 10:01 ET by BDDanbo:
Regarding the land remaining barren, it is painful to consider, but it is necessary. My hometown in the Dakota's was forced by logic to surrender three of its oldest neighborhoods that sheltered along the REd River following the 1997 flood.
THousands of people were told that their homes would be raised and the dikes pushed back in someplaces up to about a half mile back from the river to allow the hydrolic energy of the river to dissipate.
THe neighborhoods that were destroyed were turned into a long sicy park that now stretches along the river. At Christmas time those who had old family houses and lost them can sometimes be seen decorating the trees surrounding what were their old homes with ornaments to remember the good times.
THe same thing must by logic happen to New Orleans. Anything else is just mortgaging pain.
Then should we just abandon
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 11:22 ET by danboThen should we just abandon the Netherlands? Abandon most of California. Earthquakes are enevitable.
Should we move everyone inland from the coast from Mexico to Maine. Here you'd only have to move people inland a few miles. In many parts of Louisiana that may be 60 miles. You'd have to give up large swats of places like Houston, (Remember a woman drowned on an elevator there.) Mobile, Pensacola, Miami, Tampa, Charleston, New York, Washington???? This would be a big park.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
The portions of the
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 22:22 ET by BDThe portions of the Netherlands that are endangered - Yep. MOstly that is land created Post WWII by the immense flood control efforts that are doomed to evantual failure.
California? Yep, but probably for other reasons.
BIg park? sounds like. But if people are going to live there they must be willing to foot the bill for their salvation themselves. Or make adjustmnets like my hometown did.
LOL We thought alike. I
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:22 ET by danboLOL We thought alike. I looked it up. I guess it was congress' fault and Eisenhower's.
I'm a former Bayou Lafourche boy and 9th warder.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
A new stimulus plan
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:45 ET by allanfSo now we can have district judges using their commissions to create yet another federal stimuls plan. Let's give each of the 4 million residents of Lousiana 170,000!!! So we will have a court imposed 680 billion stimulus
Oooh, all of us?
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:24 ET by general companyIt could help me pay for Obama's HC and C&T, not sure if it will be enough though? : ]
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Very good Rich
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:20 ET by general companyThey had been proposing closing the MR-GO for many years before Katrina, because of the salt water killing the marsh and the erosion, it is many time wider then the 650' it was originally built, over 1500 feet in most areas. This project and a few others are also responsible for the wetlands dying off and eroding back into the Gulf. But that's another can of worms.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
The idea of the Mr Go dates
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 08:11 ET by danboThe idea of the Mr Go dates back to the early 20th century. New Orleans was concerned that they would lose shipping to ports not so far inland.
The Mr GO was approved and funded by the River and Harbor Act of 1956. Congress. To give deep draft vessels easier access to the city. And completed it in 1965. (I remember when it was built..) Obviously it was all president Bush's fault.
Didn't the corp's propose locks to keep storm surges out of the canal? Like they did with the other New Orleans canals. If my memory serves me correct. The environmentalist took the Corp's to court to stop them. Does anyone recall if something similar things happened with Mr GO.
Obviously it was all the corps fault.
I'm not a big fan of the Mr GO. Today it's main remaining use is to get the space shuttle fuel tanks out. New Orleans could close down Martin Marietta.
Of course new Orleans not raising the height of the levees like Jefferson; had nothing to do with it. New Orleans dredging some of the canals for navagation and under cutting the levees. That had nothing to do with it either. Or the New Orleans leveee board spending all that money on....
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Interesting Danbo
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:00 ET by general companyI had not heard about the undermining of the levees from dredging. This is a very detail chain of events documentation, complete with arial and other photos, just in case you or others are interested.
9. A corner section of levee, probably severely undermined from
surge that over topped a nearby earthen levee failed here, releasing
water into New Orlean's 9th Ward. This may be the only true case of
levee failure due to scouring at the base in the whole region affected
by Katrina. Rebound from the northern lock gates may have been a
contributory factor.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I was going on memory from
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:42 ET by danboI was going on memory from what I read in the local papers in the months after Katrina.
Here
If the Mr GO had never been dug, NO would still get lots of water through the Rigolettes, into the lake. It would just take a bit longer.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Ahh very good Danbo
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:26 ET by general companyI hadnt seen that, I have not really looked at the details of the case to much, do you know if the CoE claimed this was a contributing factor. This would most certainly fall under their jurisdiction I would think?
If the Mr GO had never been dug, NO would still get lots of water
through the Rigolettes, into the lake. It would just take a bit longer.
I am assuming you are referring to my Wetlands comment elsewhere? While I agree, and also believe we have probably already gone to far. The simple fact that we have engineered all of the runoff, built the river banks to high and have done everything we could do to keep fresh water from proliferating though to the marshes, is very bad news for the wetlands.
I talk to these groups trying to "save" the wetlands every time I see them, to see if they have a plan, to see if they understand the situation. They never do, and all of the Christmas trees in La wont fix it either. But if the folks were really smart, (and their not) they could incorporate the new improved levee system to help this out. But they wont, even though now is the time to do it.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
My undergrad was in
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 11:47 ET by danboMy undergrad was in archaeology with a fair bit of geology. One of the first people realizing what was going on was an LSU archaeologist back in the 60's. So that's my frame of reference. I get tickled with the Christmas tree drives. It looks like we agree.
The levees are our savior but also our biggest problem. They keep the Misssissippi floodwater out our homes but also from flowing into the swamps and marshes each spring. And what was built at the river's mouth to keep the bars to a minimum; I understand is basically dumping the needed sediments into the deep.
The corps has built some Mississippi water diversion projects into the marshes but run into flack from environmentalist, fishermen and the shipping industry; because this changes water salinity and other things. So I'm not sure how much they're used. But where they are... I understand it's working. New land and marshes. But I don't really keep up with it.
Southeast Louisiana is subsiding. It has been since the French were here. If you don't divert fresh silt into the marsh there's no fresh sediment to rebuild what sinks. (I believe the Library of Congress' map/chart room has a number of maps of the Mississippi delta from the French/Spanish period, pre civil war and civil war period online. If interested you might want to take a glance at them. We keep thinking this is a new problem.)
As far as Mr Go. You could engineer around that by siphoning river water under it. And build new marsh to the east of it.
Take care.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
The "save the marshes"
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 22:55 ET by WanderlustThe "save the marshes" idiots are no different from the "save the whales" or "save the seals" or "save the planet" kinds of idiots.
They get off on having something to protest about, but never will you find any proffered "solution" from them other than one of the standard two (usually blended together in some form):
Don't you love the sweet, sweet stench of elitism in the morning?
/idiots
Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at theend of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"
we‘re angry about the
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 09:25 ET by BDwe‘re angry about the Army Corps killing 1,000 people.
Well, I know nothing of this
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:00 ET by BKeyserWell, I know nothing of this subject -having never had the pleasure to visit New Orleans- but regardless of what some of you natives are suggesting, I think it falls on this Go fellow, (Mr. Go, I think his name is) and the court should seek him for restitution.
So will the Army Corps be
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:23 ET by SlyrrSo will the Army Corps be responsible for everyone in California who will inevitably die when earthquakes erupt along the San Andreas fault, and the people who were stupid enough to build cities smack dab along that fault are crushed under the ruin of their skyscrapers?
I remember what the media did during Katrina. They were so anxious to blame Bush for something that they actually put lunatics on the air who suggested that Bush cooked up this hurricane with some kind of 'weather machine' (as if he were a super-villain in a comic book), and then somehow imbued the hurricane with artificial intelligence so that it would only kill black people. And they also dug up morons who spread stories that army helicoptors were shooting black people, that they saw army soldiers deliberately blowing up the levys, and that the army was withholding food relief until black people were forced to resort to cannibalism. It was all hogwash, but the media reported the false stories as if they were true.
This is the kind of lunacy that has taken hold among liberals. They're getting madder and madder, and they're not getting any LESS mad now that they've got control of all 3 houses of government. They're still furious - because the Republican party still exists.
It just goes to show that they've become so deranged that they'll never be content until they have dictatorial powers to take property from, to imprison, and perhaps even kill their political enemies. This is insanity building folks - pure, rabid, fascist insanity. And I fear they won't stop until they've split the nation into two and created a new civil war.
It wasn't the Army Corps of Engineers that killed those people
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 10:31 ET by R D Helm...it was a combination of corrupt state and local politicians diverting federal funds (our tax dollars) to buy votes and increase their political power, it was also the welfare mentality that has existed there for decades, along with incompetent politicians like School-bus Nagin and Blank-head Blanco, both of which should have been charged with dereliction, tried and put in the federal slammer.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
What killed them is our own arrogance
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 11:04 ET by CobraManIt wasn't some failure by the Army Corps of Engineers that killed those people. It was the belief that we can, somehow, stop natural flooding from occurring and be able to control the flow of TRILLIONS of gallons of water. It was our all-to-human belief that we are the masters of the Universe and that we can command nature.
What killed those people is 100 years of this arrogance, 100 years of building levees, flood walls, and the like. It was those constructions themselves that let the flood waters rise so high. Had those structures not existed, the waters would have only raised a few feet and very few people would have died. Had we not tried to control the floods, those floods wold have done nothing more than ruin a few buildings and it would not have become a raging floodwater that got so many people killed.
People, water finds it's own level and there is NOTHING we, or the Army Corps of Engineers, can do to prevent that. It's simple physics, a Law of Nature. Hasn't 200 years of recorded Mississippi River Vally floods taught us anything at all? For over 200 year we've been fighting with nature, and for 200 years nature has taught us all just who's in charge.
Do you know how to stop killing people because of natural events like floods? Stop trying to control nature as you will inevitably make things worse. Instead, let nature take its own course, as our ancestors did for tens of thousands of years. We need to stop play God, we need to regain our lost wisdom and realize that Nature is King, not Mankind.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court
..and "I really screwed up" Gov. Blanco's role?
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 11:15 ET by Gary Hall..and for fun.
LA Gov Blanco - "I really screwed up" tape
Her and the Mayor's role should be household names on the streets of the US, much more than whatever it is perceived that Bush did not do.
(;~/ gary
excellant cobraman
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:17 ET by cajun2I liked your summary.I would like to add. The Corps was not just "found" guilty but they readily "confessed" that the engeneering plans for MRGO were known to be inadequate since the planning stage. I am not a lawyer but I know that %of responsibility will play here. The Levee Board plays a huge part of responsibility for corruption, waste and incompetance. It irks me that people who know nothing of La or NO offer advice and assessment. I live in an area known as "Coteau Ridge". This is part of a river delta and is unique to the area. Just to show how "climate change" and human intervention are two different things, Coteau Ridge is what is left of a river that flowed thru here 100 yrs ago. Yes, 100 yrs ago and it no longer exists and not due to human intervention. The flood of 1929 is a huge reason for the comprehensive levee systems being built. Its too late to gripe about the changes made because of that levee system without serious changes in politics and understanding of the terrain. But to people like Shep Smith and Geraldo, "Bush is killing people", if you dont know or understand NO or La. then your opinion should be limited to "wish you well".
all all wrong
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:31 ET by CatherwoodActually neither the government or the army corps of engineers was responsible for the 'tragedy' in New Orleans after Katrina. What you had there really was a large number of disfunctional people who were unprepaired and already dependent on the government for their existence. I've been through two major hurricanes....have been flooded out and have had the roof blown off my house. I've never received help from anybody but my friends and I certainly never asked the government for help or expected help from the government. We just all helped each other for about the two weeks it took to recover enough that we got the power back on and went back to work. We did have a FEMA guy show up one time and offer to pay for our hotel rooms which was odd because we never stayed in a hotel. We took the money anyway and bought chainsaws with it which we used to saw down the trees that had fallen on my house. I think all of us would have considered it beneath ourselves to depend on the government or to blame anyone else for the problem that we had to overcome. We fought it out with nature and never once complained.
Hhmm, nice Catherwood
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 13:56 ET by general companyYep, every single one of us stood around with our thumbs up our fannies waiting for FEMA, as if you would know.
No doubt the people where you live are far better then us. So let me be the first to say, how proud we are the media didnt make a circus of your little plight, and convince the rest of the nation that you folks are nothing but trashy Gov scum. Congratulations,,Jacka$$!!
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Army
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:50 ET by Anneke9The operative word here being "Army." All things military are falling out of favor under this administration. The Katrina findings provide the liberal media with an excuse to bash the Army in particular and the military in general.
Camouflage conservative in Baghdad-by-the-Bay
Anne9... I agree...it
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:00 ET by bigtimerAnne9...
I agree...it does have a lot to do with that, I noticed that as well during all the days of coverage, and months after-wards.
I heard about this news a few days ago, I was furious, but not surprised...not in the least.
Seems to me I remember there were wards that had the levees and whoever was head of it, ignored what needed to be done for years and years and money was siphoned elsewhere..probably a freezer somewhere. ...it was getting very interesting when I could follow it here and there, but then, it just dropped from the radar.
Btw...does anyone know if this decision can be appealed?
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
No word of the negligence of
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 12:55 ET by DarasenNo word of the negligence of the government officials there who for years before Katrina received millions in federal funding to make things like the levees safer. Millions that went to other things instead. They must have a (D) after their names.
Worse...
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 14:55 ET by slickwillie2001Sadly, a poll was taken in New Orleans about a year after Katrina, asking "the next time there is a disaster like Katrina, will you depend on the government more or less for help." A plurality of respondents answered 'more', and a majority answered 'more' or 'same'.
Everyone seems to be missing a big part of the point here.
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:41 ET by WanderlustFirst, let me establish my perspective in the discussion: I was born and raised in Chalmette, LA. I still have family there, including my mother, who ended up being trapped on the roof of my sister's house in Meraux through the second half of the storm and the day after that (she was rescued by a Coast Guard helicopter, and almost lost her left arm due to injuries sustained when she had to break a hole in the attic of the house with a crowbar to keep from being drowned).
There were actually two separate floods in the Greater New Orleans area at the time of Katrina.
The first flood was the one which covered the area from Ninth Ward east, all the way to Hopedale. Trying to lay blame on this one is murky, given the law of unintended consequences. It's not a recent issue, either: I was nine days old when Hurricane Betsy hit back in September 1965 and covered Chalmette in four feet of water. There was a massive uproar in St. Bernard Parish when the decision was made to allow flooding in St. Bernard so that NOLA would be protected. By my recollection, Betsy was the first "billion dollar storm" in terms of damage costs.
When Katrina hit, its path was the one locals feared for ages: pushing a storm surge into the River and/or the marshes. Since salt water intrusion from MRGO killed the marshes, the "living sponge" which would normally soak up a storm surge was nonexistent. The storm surge roared up MRGO and over the dead marshes, flooding St. Bernard and Lower Ninth Ward very, very quickly (you can see how quickly the water rose in Meraux by searching videos on YouTube; water rose from nothing to rooftop level in just about five minutes). We knew for years what issues would cause this kind of flooding, including subsidence, erosion, and loss of sediment. Back in the 1980's, the statistic was that Louisiana was losing up to 55 square miles of land each year. I don't know what that statistic is now, but looking at maps of the coastal areas over the last 50 years is amazing.
Which leaves the other flood, the one that if it is distinguished from the storm surge flood at all, is reported with either erroneous information or outright disinformation. This is the US Army Corps of Engineers (ACoE) flood which destroyed the middle of NOLA when the levee broke at the 17th Street Canal one day after Katrina hit the area.
Wizbang blog writer Paul is an engineer from NOLA. He wrote many posts after Katrina regarding this flood in particular. The archive of the posts is here, and my post is a summary of the information written there.
Firemen in a nearby fire station were shooting video of the area by the 17th Street Canal when the levee collapsed. When news of the existence of this video became known, the video was impounded by Congress for months, with a warning that if the video were released, its owners could be cited as being found in contempt of Congress. During this time, the ACoE kept referring to the canal flood as an "overtopping". They did so because if the water was too high, ACoE could wring its collective hands and claim that Nature was just too strong for their defenses.
But.
There was one tiny little problem with ACoE's claim.
On the firefighters' video, the top of the levee can clearly be seen even as water begins rushing in through it.
No "overtopping". The water wasn't high enough.
This was a breach. Without any warning, the levee collapsed.
In fact, the supreme irony of the situation is, had the levee not collapsed when it did (one day after the hurricane hit, when the area had been almost completely evacuated), a sudden flood in Jefferson Parish would have likely claimed dozens of lives, if not far more.
This second flood is what damaged NOLA so badly, because the water rushed into the lowest part of the city and then sat there for many days.
In the ensuing investigation, many engineering sins committed by ACoE came to light; both in regards to general suitability of the specification of the floodworks to protect against flooding from "Category III" hurricanes (which affected both GNO flood sites) and the engineering management of the construction of the floodworks itself (which was an issue directly affecting the 17th Street Canal breach).
In my opinion, while one can argue the issue of whether the overall specification of the floodworks was fit for purpose until the crows come home, the specific and many acts of construction management negligence committed by the ACoE are damnable and someone should be punished for them.
But therein lies another problem, which some on this thread have mentioned: if you sue the ACoE, you are suing the US Government - and the ultimate party to foot the bill for any award claim is the Federal taxpayer (or who is left of that number now, since there are so many who are practically exempt from paying Federal income taxes).
And where there is Federal $$$ to award, there are many who would gladly use the malfeasance of the ACoE as an opportunity to engage in influence pandering, graft, and kickbacks.
Kind of like what the NOLA Levee Board has done so well with, since the first day of its inception.
/SIGH...
Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at theend of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"
Wl... NOLA Levee Board is
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:52 ET by bigtimerWl...
NOLA Levee Board is what I was trying to think of and remember in my post above somewhere.
Anyway...wow, did you ever fill me in on some things I didn't know...and for that I thank you.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Good summation Wander
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:49 ET by general companyGlad your Mother was OK.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Thank you wanderlust
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:16 ET by cajun2Your post was informative and well stated. There are so many stories to tell about Katrina and Rita that should scare people. Hundreds of people showed up on the levee in their boats to help rescue thousands trapped. They were turned away because Blanco was afraid of lawsuits. Thousands walked out of NO with nothing except carrying their children on their backs. No one ever talks about those who are self reliant and independant and took care of themselves. Some people were trapped in their homes for days before they could get out. Think about the heat and humidity. Only those that are disappointed when their entitlements dont show up made prime time. BTW, Katrina is not the only hurricane to hit La and cause great damage. But it is the only one the media was interested in because they could blame Bush. We learn, we change, we survive. Just like with that guy in the white house. There will be change.
I hope he fails, soon.
Now for the Funny...
Sat, 11/21/2009 - 22:44 ET by WanderlustA few things relating to the Katrina flood that were just downright funny, IMHO:
The first one was the swamp house exhibit at Audubon Zoo, where a sign posted on the house indicated that no inhabitants were found in the house, but the eight gators in the swamp had been fed. Draw your own conclusions.
Next, Hollyweird royalty and conscience of the world, Sean Penn, demonstrating how actors can help alleviate suffering during rescue operations. You'll never think of "bailout" in the same way again...
Finally, one that unfortunately I have no links or photos of, but sighted firsthand last year when I visited Delacroix Island (pronounced "Delacro" phonetically by the locals): some people "down the road" had decided that they were not going to be flooded out again. So they elevated their trailers above the ground. But not just elevated. These trailers were over 20 feet up, supported by stilts the size of telephone poles. Without any lateral bracing.
Flooding? No problem! But being exposed like that when the winds come, their trailers dangling in midair like the dog's proverbials? Well, goodbye trailer...
Some things were given to us just to make us laugh. Enjoy :)
Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at theend of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"