Maine's successful referendum to repeal a newly-imposed "same-sex marriage" law would have been a huge national story if the gay left had won. But since they narrowly lost, the broadcast network morning shows on Wednesday barely acknowledged it. In fact, NBC avoided the news for its entire four hours of Today. The Early Show on CBS offered 20 words from Jeff Glor early in the show: "In Maine, a loss for supporters of gay marriage yesterday. Voters voted down a law that had legalized same-sex marriage."
ABC’s Good Morning America led the pack with two quick mentions. In the first hour, Diane Sawyer told George Stephanopoulos: "In Maine, you probably heard about this, voters were voting on gay marriage. They decided against gay marriage, 53 to 47 percent." That’s 22 words. In the 8 am hour, this squib from news anchor Chris Cuomo: "And we do have the results of one widely watched ballot initiative. Voters in Maine repealed a law that allowed same-sex marriages." That’s also 22 words.
At least the networks didn’t offering the typical labeling imbalance, where "conservatives" defeated "gay rights activists." In his 8 am newscast, Cuomo noted "conservative Republican" Bob McDonnell won, and Bill Owens "defeated his conservative opponent in upstate New York."
Maine is the 31st state to vote against "same-sex marriage," although the margins of victory have shrunk over the last few years. A left-wing victory there surely would have been a striking new development. But the avoidance of electoral results that cause liberals to gnash their teeth (or make liberalism less than the inevitable wave of the future) give the networks a very politically selective image.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center.




















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Maybe the "Today" show crew...............
November 4, 2009 - 17:42 ET by averageschmoeMaybe the "Today"show crew had more important things to do such as interview the "balloon family" or dress up as Turkeys for Thanksgiving.
Yeah, why report something
November 5, 2009 - 00:13 ET by notonmywatchYeah, why report something that doesn't work for them?
Man.
___________________________________________________________
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You know what that's called....?
November 4, 2009 - 18:15 ET by superconThat's called "managing the news" . Certain types of stories will always be spiked. Any story where a leftie loses won't see the light of day.
" if Republicans are able to stop Barack Obama on health care, 'it will be his Waterloo, it will break him...." -Sen. Jim DeMint
Good reason?
November 4, 2009 - 19:39 ET by Vivaldi5I'm not sure I'd read much into the under-reporting on the Maine referendum so far.
Don't forget that Elton John's been awfully sick so the networks probably haven't been able to obtain comment yet!
I wonder if Elton recieved
November 4, 2009 - 23:23 ET by Dan The Man 2I wonder if Elton recieved the government care thing or if its special treatment.
What are they, homophobes?
November 4, 2009 - 19:56 ET by mattmWhat are they, homophobes?
Civil rights will not be
November 4, 2009 - 20:28 ET by JasonCCivil rights will not be won through referenda. More state judicial branches need to mandate gay marriage, and those who want to cry about how they didn't get to vote on it can just go ahead and not marry someone of their own gender. Everyone wins.
Except that certain adherents of the right would not be able to continue veiling borderline homophobia behind nonsensical arguments about the threat gay marriage supposedly poses to the sanctity of marriage and the nuclear family. And, most absurdly, arguments about howthey have been deprived the right to vote a certain way so as to deprive others of a far more fundamental right.
So you dont believe in
November 4, 2009 - 20:35 ET by general companyDemocracy?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
The U.S. is not, in fact, a
November 4, 2009 - 22:05 ET by JasonCThe U.S. is not, in fact, a democracy.
And no, not every single aspect of our culture should be voted on.
So true Jason
November 4, 2009 - 22:09 ET by MightyMouthWe are now a banna republic!
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
The U.S. is not, in fact, a
November 4, 2009 - 23:28 ET by Dan The Man 2The U.S. is not, in fact, a democracy
You are right is it a republic and we are represented by those we elect by democratic methods. I agree with this one "And no, not every single aspect of our culture should be voted on." and one aspect is there should be marriage between man and woman and nothing else. We should not vote for changing a system that has worked for thousands of years.
Remember this is government by the people for the people.
Absolutely, If we've been
November 5, 2009 - 01:08 ET by dptAbsolutely, If we've been doing it for a long time, that means its a good idea. It's been true for everything else. I think we should go back to all the laws that were in place when the country was founded.
I think we should go back
November 5, 2009 - 03:45 ET by Dan The Man 2I think we should go back to all the laws that were in place when the country was founded.
Hmmm, Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and reserve labeling you Troll. That statement is very Trollish and pretty inane. Laws change and the people change them. The laws and customs regarding marriage are thousands of years old and deal with mostly legalities such as children and property. Almost all of the legal associated with marriage can be duplicated w/o benefit of marriage. So we should keep it like that.
And then we have teh full faith laws between the states that include marriage. So a "marriage" between homosexuals complicates these things when they move from a state that allows such to a state that doesn't. Basically it is the unravelling of such laws.
So teh basic premise is that ones rights is being squashed, well what about those who want more than one partner or children or pets/farm animals or inanimate objects? Where do we stop? The Netherlands has not stopped and some are petitioning for children and multiples now.
DanMan2
November 5, 2009 - 14:49 ET by MrShyI agree with this one "And no, not every single aspect of our culture should be voted on." and one aspect is there should be marriage between man and woman and nothing else.
Precisely. How much clearer can we make it, that it's about changing "culture" and not to mandate something that needs changing for some sort of "civil rights" reason. That's total rubbish and simply a way to twist arms.
I guess you also believe in
November 4, 2009 - 23:31 ET by Dan The Man 2I guess you also believe in other forms of alternate marriages such as multiple (more than one) partner and perhaps some animals thrown in the mix. And just for NAMBLA's sake let us not forget the kiddos in this menage. Ohh yeah I really love my car so lets include inaminmate objects too.
Yep lets really open it up.
Um...no...I do not believe
November 5, 2009 - 09:11 ET by JasonCUm...no...I do not believe any of those things. And it blows my mind that gay marriage opponents can still deliver that particular attempt at equivalence, that highly fallacious slippery slope argument, with a straight face.
I've rebutted this many many times on NB before, but what's one more time?
Gay marriage, like any other lawful marriage, involves entering into, essentially, a contract. In order to enter into a contract, both parties must do so consensually. This is why a business contract, for instance, signed by one party under duress (perhaps with a gun, literally or figuratively, to his or her head) would not be considered valid.
One element of the marriage contract is the expectation of sexual contact, approved by the state, made morally acceptable by the church (if the wedding is done under religious auspices, and even then, of course, it varies as to whether sex is approved only for procreation, &c.)
However, there are already legitimate and solid laws in place which not only protect children from sexual contact with adults, but which nullify children's legal ability to give consent. Therefore, the institution of gay marriage - assuming all wedded partners are consenting adults - does not open up any sort of legal channels for adults to marry kids. It only points to a slippery slope argument of "well if we allow gays to marry, what's next?" But again, this reasoning is fallacious.
Similar reasoning applies to animals and inanimate objects. While certain moralizing types may see a sliding of standards which could end up with people marrying people of a different species or of non-sentience, again, gay marriage does not open any sort of loophole for this to occur. An animal cannot be made to understand what it is doing, nor can it sign a legal document itself or by proxy. Even less can an inanimate object do so.
So yet again, the issue comes down to consenting to a legally binding arrangement. Animals and cars cannot practically do so. Children cannot legally do so, due to a set of laws which are not directly related to marriage and are therefore not disrupted by legalized gay marriage.
Why?
November 5, 2009 - 09:34 ET by general companyAnd it blows my mind that gay marriage opponents can still deliver that
particular attempt at equivalence, that highly fallacious slippery
slope argument, with a straight face.
A few years ago, the thought of same sex marriage was blowing my mind. I think CA has it perfectly right, if same sexes have the right to marry, why not multiple marriages, or marring animales, or the under age. Why not let everyone else make a mockery of the institution of marriage, and religion? Why should gays get what they want, but know one else? Gays always want special treatment, where does it end?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
if same sexes have the
November 5, 2009 - 09:46 ET by JasonCif same sexes have the right to marry, why not multiple marriages, or marring animales, or the under age.
I just explained exactly why the latter three things do not follow from the first. It all comes down to ability to give consent. how much clearer can I make it?
Why not let everyone else make a mockery of the institution of marriage, and religion?
How exactly is marriage mocked when two people make their commitment to monogamy legally binding. No church should be forced to consecrate a marriage that goes against their principles, I'll agree there. But since many many marriages are not defined by religion, that's not the only issue. Besides which, a pretty good number of heterosexuals have done a good job of making a mockery of marriage; why not let gay people have a shot?
Exactly how are you, or your marriage if you have one, affected by gay marriage? There is no material effect, so I can only imagine that you feel it is the principle of the matter. Sorry, but you principles, and your delusion that they are somehow affected by what others do, are far less important than giving a substantial portion of society access to the same institutions that you take for granted just because you happen to like ladies.
~JasonC
November 5, 2009 - 14:00 ET by choselife3xI'm going to go into this subject in more depth than ever before.
Please, try to restrain your excitement. And hold your applause till the end...
Jason, you brought up marriage as a contractual arrangement so I'll start there. What is the purpose of a contract? Essentially, it is to document each party's obligation and to allocate and minimize each party's risks in an agreement meant to be mutually beneficial.
What obligation does each party incur? What risks are incurred? What benefits?
In order to answer these questions, you're going to have to stop thinking like an enlightened metrosexual and get in touch with your inner caveman.
Man+Woman=Baby. Pregnant woman=Physically weak and vulnerable. And tired. Very, very tired. :-)
Because only women get pregnant, there is an imbalance of risk in the relationship. A contract is meant to balance the risk and assure security for the most vulnerable.
It is a deep and primal need of womanhood to have the security of knowing that the man who got her pregnant is going to stick around and take care of her and their child.
It is a deep and primal need of manhood to have (sex with) a faithful woman who can be counted on to only get pregnant with his babies, and to take care of them when they are small. In return, he takes care of her and them.
It is also a deep and primal need of childhood to have a stable and secure home environment with a mother and father committed to each other. If both parents adhere to the terms of their marriage contract a stable environment for the most vulnerable party, the children, is assured.
Since gay people cannot have children with each other, neither is more or less at risk in the relationship than the other. They are on equal terms, therefore a contract is unnecessary.
Done.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
http://themessengerd...
Very succinct, biology-based rundown there, CL3
November 5, 2009 - 14:17 ET by SickofLibsJust be prepared for the "gay couples make excellent parents" response you know is coming.
~I'm locked and loaded
November 5, 2009 - 14:19 ET by choselife3xIn order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Yeah, I heard the click from here
November 5, 2009 - 14:31 ET by SickofLibsYeah, I heard the click from here
chose & JC
November 5, 2009 - 14:42 ET by MrShyWhen are you not? :p
But Jason, gotta say, she's nailed it here about what separates the two. It's all about selflessness vs. selfishness/personal gratification, really.
Now, yes, I'm one to talk as a heterosexual who might never get married at the rate I'm going, and I'm far too much about personal gratification myself. But fighting to change the very core of what marriage is and what it means is a way for them to infringe on the natural and healthy institution that is family (yes, I said "healthy", so please try not to go ballistic -- two of the same sex raising a family is a bit of a freak show, period) and to open the gates to personal irresponsibility. AND, to make us all accept this as morally okay along with everything else. "You see? Look, we can get married."
(Breaking the rule) But Shy,
November 5, 2009 - 14:43 ET by Another Dead Kennedy(Breaking the rule)
But Shy, since when do marriage vows include a promise to have children?
WhichKennedyIsThis?
November 5, 2009 - 15:00 ET by MrShyAaah, I see you're gunning for every technicality you can find to usher in a new accepted culture.
No, they don't include these vows. A vast majority of married couples eventually have children. Marriage is, first and foremost, about family and a way to help to keep it intact. Also, two parents of the same sex without question begins a slope, not to mention it's a bit of a freak show.
I know, there's now probably a mind clean-up in Aisle Ted and Jason after that one.
This all goes back to what Jason said, above, which we agree on:
...no, not every single aspect of our culture should be voted on.
Exactly.
Can you ever have an honest
November 5, 2009 - 15:04 ET by Another Dead KennedyCan you ever have an honest discussion without the constant disrespectful and immature digs? I'm making the point that marriage is not about having kids. Marriage in its simplest definition is "the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife." Perhaps you have an alternate definition, but this is it. Admittedly, many marriages eventually lead to having children, and a good portion of those lead to divorce. But nowhere in the contract of marriage does it demand the married couple ever have kids.
But then by your own admission, you'll probably never get married, so you're not exactly the expert on this anyway.
Ted
November 5, 2009 - 15:10 ET by MrShyHuh? Disrespectful and immature? Serious, how thin is your skin? I'm responding and doing it with some humor, that is all.
Yes, admittedly many marriages do lead to having children/starting a family. That's really what marriage IS for. You want to start to smudge all of that. Many (most) would rather not. AND, would rather not be attacked for rather not wanting to do this.
That I'll probably never get married means I should not chime in on this is the same as the nonsense argument that Cheney/Bush and their children need to strap on a helmets and go to Iraq.
Well gee, Shy. It seems
November 5, 2009 - 15:13 ET by Another Dead KennedyWell gee, Shy. It seems you and I have our own definition of marriage, in addition to the definition gays would like. Does that make you right? I assume it does, so please elaborate. Why do you insist that marriage is primarily about having a family, rather than a simple union between two consenting adults?
Ted
November 5, 2009 - 15:19 ET by MrShyBecause, if it was "primarily" (or, simply) about having a simple "union" between two consenting adults, then they can legally have "civil unions".
Oh? They can already in several states? Very cool, and I'll be happy to sign on that dotted line for my state as well.
So what are we going on about here?
Just waiting for you to
November 5, 2009 - 15:25 ET by Another Dead KennedyJust waiting for you to accept the fact that marriage is not about having children and starting a family. You're redefining it simply to prove your point, and it's just as dishonest as gays wanting to redefine it to make their argument.
MyThreeTeds
November 5, 2009 - 15:43 ET by MrShyMaybe get your side of the argument straight first, if you're bringing up the subject of honesty.
First you claim "marriage is not primarily about having children. (Which, keep in mind, most of us will argue it IS, as even you pointed out earlier that still a majority DO have children -- but we don't even need stats, because that IS what it's primarily about.) Now, you remove that important bold/italicized word altogether with, "marriage is not about having children and starting a family."
Your wrong, and missing the point
November 5, 2009 - 19:17 ET by general companyJust waiting for you to accept the fact that marriage is not about having children and starting a family.
Marriage in about starting a family, that is why in the past, the young were encouraged to marry. To pretend otherwise is to further an alien philosophy.
You're redefining it simply to prove your point, and it's just as
dishonest as gays wanting to redefine it to make their argument.
No, he (Shy) is not, you are.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
It's simple, Shy.
November 5, 2009 - 15:35 ET by JasonCIt's simple, Shy. Separate but equal is in fact unequal. Very straightforward Civil Rights-era dictum. Once you accept that reproduction is not necessarily an inherent byproduct of modern marriage, there is little left to support the claim that gay people should be excluded from what is essentially a social institution.
"Once you accept that
November 5, 2009 - 15:40 ET by MrShy"Once you accept that reproduction is not necessarily an inherent byproduct of modern marriage."
Aaah, but it is, Jason, and should be as it has for centuries. And modern schmodern, I guess is what this comes down to. Families without a parent of both sexes enters into freak show territory.
Both of you are coming at me with the same nonsense. I need back-up. BACK-UP! :)
But I do love your insertion of "modern" -- another progressive word, I imagine.
Aaah, but it is, But no,
November 5, 2009 - 15:44 ET by JasonCAaah, but it is,
But no, in fact, it is demonstrably not. Anyone who opposes gay marriage on these ground is ethically obligated to advocate for a law requiring married couples to procreate by a certain date and to make fertility/potency tests criteria for a marriage license.
Sound dystopian and Draconian? Yes. But also consistent with this line of argument against gay marriage.
By "modern" I mean "modern." See my 3 points to Chose below.
Nonesense
November 5, 2009 - 19:26 ET by general companyAnyone who opposes gay marriage on these ground is ethically
obligated to advocate for a law requiring married couples to procreate
by a certain date and to make fertility/potency tests criteria for a
marriage license.
There are many reasons this statement is nonesense. A Man and Woman can add to a family in many ways without having children. Most importaint of these "many ways", is setting a good exsample.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
That makes no sense. If
November 5, 2009 - 20:15 ET by JasonCThat makes no sense. If it's not about reproductivity, what good example is being set? For who?
We're straight, you would do well to emulate us?
Give me a break.
Give ME a break
November 5, 2009 - 20:35 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou're not too bright, are you?
The purpose of the penis is for insertion into the vagina for the sole purpose of procreation. Sure, some do it solely for gratification, but that's not the scientific purpose of it. And you may feel the need to insert your penis into another man's anus. However, while you may find gratification in that act there is no scientific purpose for that act.
So, to equate your obssession with sodomy with that of a normal heterosexual relationship is patently ridiculous.
You would have better luck with your agenda by simply admitting that what you champion is not normal, but worthy nonetheless of certain advantages that normal relationships enjoy.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Please define "normal," my
November 5, 2009 - 20:40 ET by JasonCPlease define "normal," my fellow hop-head.
Because as you may or may not have noticed, it's not a concept that I am conerned with in any of my arguments, mostly because it's both meaningless and irrelevant.
negative, liberal
November 5, 2009 - 20:42 ET by MrShyYOU define normal. I shudder to read your response.
lol.. evident indeed.
November 5, 2009 - 20:46 ET by Sergeant ROCKThere is nothing 'normal' about you putting your penis into another man's anus. If there is, show me the scientific evidence that it is normal?
Or is it that evolution hasn't caught up yet with the gay agenda so that a man's anus can carry eggs to be fertilized?
Good luck on explaining what the scientific purpose of lesbianism is! lol..
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
You realize, of course,
November 5, 2009 - 20:54 ET by JasonCYou realize, of course, that the notion of "scientific purpose" is in the first place, and relatively speaking, a very recent idea. Sexual desire, even of the homosexual variety, predates it by quite a bit.
Regardless, how sad to think that all of human Eros has to fit into a scientific rubric. Not very sexy.
lol.. you lose!
November 5, 2009 - 21:08 ET by Sergeant ROCKThat's weak. There are many things that have recently been discovered. That doesn't mean they didn't exist! The purpose of reproduction 'predates' desire, decadence, etc., etc.
By your own admission, gratification is what drives your agenda - not science. Hence, not normal.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge
November 5, 2009 - 21:11 ET by MrShyI simply have to say it again....
I think we're kindred spirits :)
Stop it MrShy!
November 5, 2009 - 21:17 ET by Sergeant ROCKsodomite228 is having a field day with your quotes!
It's the only weapon he has... lol
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Families without a parent of
November 5, 2009 - 15:45 ET by Another Dead KennedyFamilies without a parent of both sexes enters into freak show territory.
You are an asshole. You have nothing to back up this statement, and I hope every single Newsbusters member will any balls will chew your head off for this statement. You are a scumbag for even suggesting this, and I am now officially done with you. Congrats, you've finally offended me.
I'm going to assume Shy
November 5, 2009 - 15:48 ET by JasonCI'm going to assume Shy meant familes with two parents of the same sex, as opposed to families led by a single parent. I would still disagree that the former is anywhere near "Freak Show" status, but that's how I read it, despite its semantic imperfection.
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 15:57 ET by MrShy"Families without a parent of both sexes enters into freak show territory."
That is semantically just fine. My head is still spinning over Ted's post, above, which the NB admins need to look at. I seem to bring out the worst in people sometimes. Oh well.
Nice Ted
November 5, 2009 - 15:53 ET by MrShyYou must really be far-left to come at me like that.
Should I get hit by a truck, too? That's what some other classless liberal added in his parting shot to me one time.
Back up this statement??? It's my harmless opinion that it's a slippery slope and that kids need a man and a woman as a parental unit.
Has the progressive lib movement gone this far with the likes of people like you? Aaah, tolerant liberals.
TedX3, you clearly have issues.
Shy, I'm with you. Males
November 5, 2009 - 16:18 ET by Radical1979Shy, I'm with you. Males and females are NOT the same, and have different roles to play in childrearing and society. Children need one role model of each sex to become healthy adults. I don't know what kind of study has been done on boys but I believe there are studies on girls without fathers and the bad choices they make as a result.
rad1979
November 5, 2009 - 16:23 ET by MrShyWell then, I'm not the only sc**bag ***hole who needs my head chewed off around here...
Can you believe what that Ted character posted above?
And yeah, I'm/we're just going along with nature and history that goes back for forever.
I don't know what kind of
November 5, 2009 - 21:02 ET by JasonCI don't know what kind of study has been done on boys but I believe
there are studies on girls without fathers and the bad choices they
make as a result.
But is this necessarily due to the lack of that masculine presence per se, or to the attendant economic/supervisory problems of a single-parent household?
To put it another way: Would it be preferable if our hypothetical representative young lady had only her single mother raising her, or better if a second parental figure entered the picture...even if that second parental figure was also female?
While you make some good
November 5, 2009 - 14:41 ET by Another Dead KennedyWhile you make some good points here, your argument seems based around the necessity for couples, and mainly women, to want to have kids. Census estimates point to approximately 31 million married couples who do not have children. Having children just isn't for everyone. And understandably, as the woman in the relationship is the one who "biologically" desires children in the relationship, in a gay relationship between 2 men, neither have that need.
~My point
November 5, 2009 - 15:22 ET by choselife3xHeterosexual sex makes babies, period. Marriage is a way for both parties to get what they want with maximum benefit and minimum risk. Man gets guaranteed sex, woman gets guaranteed security.
Women have borne the burden of risk in sexual relationships for millennia. Reliable birth control is a new development in human history.
The marriage "contract" Jason referred to was designed to balance the burden of risk between consenting parties. Which is also the original reasoning behind alimony and child support.
Homosexual relationships have no imbalance of risk. They have absolutely no chance of getting each other pregnant.
If you're not going to have kids, I don't give a d@mn if you get married or not. Marriage is about family, and family is about the next generation.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Man gets guaranteed sex,
November 5, 2009 - 15:42 ET by Another Dead KennedyMan gets guaranteed sex, woman gets guaranteed security.
There is nothing true about this statement for the general population. I hope it's true in your family, but statistics suggest otherwise. What guarantees sex for the man? The woman in the relationship can refuse sex at any time, just as the man can. If there was a guarantee, either party could force sex on the unwilling party, which inevitably can and should end up in a rape conviction. Security is not guaranteed either, though I'd like you to elaborate on what securities you're referring to.
Women have borne the burden of risk in sexual relationships for millennia. Reliable birth control is a new development in human history.
Yes, women are the bearers of children. But it's not the burden you suggest, for the same reason sex isn't guaranteed - if the woman chooses otherwise, she can't be forced into having children. Either person in the marriage can choose to use birth control without the knowledge or consent of the other. And let's not forget, just simply refusing to have sex denies the ability to become pregnant.
Homosexual relationships have no imbalance of risk. They have absolutely no chance of getting each other pregnant.
There are many heterosexual relationships who have no chance of getting the woman pregnant as well. Let's start with infertility problems for either partner. If one can't help conceive, the other loses out too, of course excluding treatment options, donors, and adoption. When the risk of getting pregnant is gone, the balance of risk in the marriage still remains the same.
Marriage is about family, and family is about the next generation.
And on a personal note, I find this statement insulting. When my wife and I married, it was never about starting a family. It was about being in love and wanting to spend our lives together. Sure there is time to start a family later, if we choose to, but our marriage is exactly how we planned it to be. Our DINK family couldn't be happier.
~Teddy
November 5, 2009 - 16:22 ET by choselife3xMan gets guaranteed sex
When you married did you assume you would be having sex on a fairly regular basis for the duration of the relationship? Well, that's what I meant by it.
woman gets guaranteed security.
When you married was your wife safe in assuming you weren't going to cheat on her and leave her? How about when she's pregnant? Going to bolt? No? Well, that's what I meant by it.
You two made an agreement, a contract, which you both base your expectations of each other on.
Yes, women are the bearers of children. But it's not the burden you suggest--she can't be forced into having children
Women don't have to be forced into it, the vast majority of women want it. Just like the vast majority of men want sex. Biology, plain and simple. The marriage contract provides for the needs of both parties and protects both parties against risk.
There are many heterosexual relationships who have no chance of getting the woman pregnant as well.
Which is very rarely discovered till after marriage. Infertility has nothing to do with gay people.
Marriage is about family, and family is about the next generation.
And on a personal note, I find this statement insulting. When my wife and I married, it was never about starting a family.
When you married your wife you committed yourself to her, and to any children you might have. You didn't plan to bail on her, right? Or your kid/s?
So your marriage is about family. And I'm sure you're going to make a great dad one day.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Edited to add space, stoopid space barisstickinglately.
Chose, I'll gladly
November 5, 2009 - 15:39 ET by JasonCChose,
I'll gladly concede the primal origins of marriage, and I give you sincere props for your eloquent laying out of it as a case against legal gay marriage.
However, given our modern cultural climate, all the eloquence and well-structured reasoning in the world doesn't change some very plain facts (all of which I'm sure you saw coming from me a mile away):
1. Darwinian impulses aside, having children no longer has the same evolutionary urgency it did in the pre-civilization epoch on which you base your argument. Yes, that's a fancy way of trotting out my well-worn (but perfectly true) claim that having children may be an implied part of marriage in our culture, but it is not inherent in The Contract.
2. The State, certainly at this point in time, does not have an overwhelmingly legitimate interest increasing the population. And it's not as though the lack of legalized gay marriage is going to inspire gay men and women to enter into heterosexual relationships and reproduce. This is why I reject the premise that reproduction enters into it at all.
3. A culture which makes divorce and annulment as simple a matter (and pursues "Deadbeat Dads" as halfheartedly) as ours does is in no position to be citing monogamy as some sort of insurance policy against the possibility of a fleeing pater familias as the basis for defining marriage as being between a man and woman.
Finally, while I do think your post was great in and of itself, it does not address DantheMan's slippery slope argument. Have I defended that aspect of the debate to your satisfaction?
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 15:41 ET by MrShy"I'll gladly concede the primal origins of marriage."
And, that's really what all this is. It doesn't make us evil by any means, and your head should not explode over it.
But my head didn't explode
November 5, 2009 - 15:45 ET by JasonCBut my head didn't explode over this; it exploded over the continually-propogated idea that gay marriage is on a moral par with, and will inevitably lead to, the kind of aberrant marriages to which Dan alluded.
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 15:58 ET by MrShyWhy are you compelled to have us change our stance on how we see homosexuality morally?
And Ted Knight needs a good banning from NB.
Maybe you should start a
November 5, 2009 - 17:07 ET by Another Dead KennedyMaybe you should start a post about banning me. You are a complete hypocrite. You seem to only care when your enemies swear, but it's completely acceptable when it's one of your buddies. Why exactly weren't you calling for SR's banning when he used this language?
http://newsbusters.o...
Right, because he's one of your buddies!
Your completely ignorant statement that a family requires 2 opposite sex parents to raise normal, well rounded children or it will be a "freakshow" is dumbfounding. Given the divorce rate in this country, millions of Americans disagree strongly with your statement. If your reference was meant to only include gay couples, you have no proof to back this up. But as Radical chimed in and made it clear with this statement backing you up:
Children need one role model of each sex to become healthy adults. I don't know what kind of study has been done on boys but I believe there are studies on girls without fathers and the bad choices they make as a result.
We know what you meant. And you're wrong, and I stand by my words.
Ted
November 5, 2009 - 17:07 ET by MrShyI'd quit while you are behind. You're obviously an unhinged type of person, so I'll walk around your mind field from now on.
An apology for a profanity-laced tired will suffice, but it doesn't really matter to me.
Quit avoiding your
November 5, 2009 - 17:10 ET by Another Dead KennedyQuit avoiding your hypocrisy. Why was it okay for SR to swear? Why didn't you call him out?
Ted
November 5, 2009 - 17:20 ET by MrShyFly a kite or something. I'm not on NB for social cliques, I'm here to be my staunch conservative self and put up with the occasional idiots like yourself.
I'll call out who I feel like calling out on anything, whenever. I'm nobody's babysitter or bodyguard and I have a couple of real trusted, nice people that I like ("buddies", as it were) outside of NB, and that's that.
Man, you're a mess.
Answer the question. Why
November 5, 2009 - 17:23 ET by Another Dead KennedyAnswer the question.
Why are you calling for my banning for swearing, while it's perfectly acceptable for your friends to do the same?
Or you can just admit you're a hypocrite and we'll leave it at that.
~Looks like someone is caught
November 5, 2009 - 17:24 ET by choselife3xBetween a ROCK and a hard place.....
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
You're not only a mess, but
November 5, 2009 - 17:27 ET by MrShyYou're not only a mess, but you have the emotional maturity of a 6 year-old.
For the last time, I'm not on here for cliques and who has who's back, okay? I am dealing with you. You deal with whoever. Whoever deals with whoever else.
- Hypocrite Shy (sheesh, anything to shut you up)
Finally. An admitted flaw
November 5, 2009 - 17:36 ET by Another Dead KennedyFinally. An admitted flaw in an otherwise damaged mind. If you want to make personal judgement calls about my emotional state, then I'm entitled to point out that I'm happily married, and you're not. Farewell.
Good grief,
November 5, 2009 - 19:36 ET by general companySad someone has to tell you why?
Why was it okay for SR to swear? Why didn't you call him out?
Because it wasnt directed at him, since when is it his job to police the site? BTW it isnt your either.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
AnotherWhiningLiberal
November 5, 2009 - 20:16 ET by Sergeant ROCKI think it's more to do when you're losing, you start whining about 'name-calling'. Boo Hoo..
Funny how that unites whining liberals and their coddlers here.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Actually Serg, the whining
November 5, 2009 - 20:19 ET by Another Dead KennedyActually Serg, the whining was done by your pal Mr Shy about language his delicate ears find offensive. Of course, you probably wouldn't know that because he doesn't find your cursing offensive - just liberals.
Liberals are the greatest profanity
November 5, 2009 - 20:23 ET by Sergeant ROCKThey sicken me. So, naturally I could careless how you feel.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Good. Then the feeling is
November 5, 2009 - 20:26 ET by Another Dead KennedyGood. Then the feeling is mutual.
Good evening Dead
November 5, 2009 - 21:01 ET by cocodrieBe careful in your grey world of compromise where there are no moral absolutes. Someday you may be on the receiving end of some whacko's idea of what is morally acceptable.
I pray that you can overcome the bitterness that is consuming you and get to enjoy life a little.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
I pray that you can overcome
November 6, 2009 - 13:00 ET by Another Dead KennedyI pray that you can overcome the bitterness that is consuming you and get to enjoy life a little.
Now that's an interesting statement. What makes you think I don't enjoy life? Or is it just because I don't have kids?
Not quite true, now is it ADK
November 5, 2009 - 21:04 ET by general companyActually Serg, the whining was done by your pal Mr Shy about language his delicate ears find offensive.
Actualy it was YOU calling Shy names because of your thin skin that drew the protest, right? Naturaly, like a good liberal, you dont bother mentioning that
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
'What?.. what?..'
November 5, 2009 - 21:20 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. I wasn't even there!'
(Dumb Beaver from Family Guy)
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
~Jason
November 5, 2009 - 15:59 ET by choselife3x1. The whole point of the marriage contract is to safeguard the woman and children.
2. Same answer as number 1. If you're not going to have children, there is no imbalance of power. If there is no imbalance of power, there is no need for a contract. Why do gay people need a contract?
3. You just proved that easy divorce, annulment, and acceptance of deadbeat dads has broken down the family structure. You then use said breakdown as a reason to destroy what is left.
As far as slippery slope goes, your "mutual consent" line of argument is airtight. The only thing I have to say about that is that all of the gay men I know, and the ones I've read about (Running with Scissors), were seduced/molested as teens by much older men. The fact that NAMBLA exists is enough to give me pause.
As far as I'm concerned, the slippery slope argument is used as a distraction by liberals to keep from coming up with a valid reason why gay people need a marriage contract.
1. I have conceded that
November 6, 2009 - 08:51 ET by JasonC1. I have conceded that that is the primal/historical basis for marriage. But, to refer to point #3, I believe I've also adequately demonstrated that it simply isn't the case anymore. You ask why gay people "need" marriage. My counter-question could easily be (and is): "Given the actual roles marriage has played in our culture since, say the end of WWII (to name a meaningful if arbitrary point of reference), why does anyone need it?" Safeguarding women and children is an explanation of its origins, but not of its current function. Or, if that is its current function, it has failed dramatically in an overwhelming number of instances.
2. Because many people look at marriage as more than an arrangement of power. I realize that wedding ceremonies tend to be more about pageantry than anything else, but rarely have I heard vows acknowledging a mutually-accepted balance of power. There is something else going on, perhaps a little different for every couple, but I think that, now at least, it has as much to do with entering into a new phase of societal expectation than the primitive distributions of power/protection that your trying to get me to accept are still part and parcel of marriage in 2009.
3. I'm glad to see I can, in fact, prove something. Of course, I don't see gay marriage as "destroying" anything. I do see the failure of heterosexuality to widely maintain the sanctity of marriage as an obvious rebuttal to the idea that allowing homosexual couples access to it will somehow besmirch this heretofore pure-as-the-driven-snow institution.
I'm going to take your anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt, and also suggest that Augusten Burroughs has only slightly more autobiographical integrity than James Frey. Suffice to say, I would need to see actual, sociological/psychological studies before I'd begin to accept the premise that homosexuality is, as you imply, generally a function of abuse. To begin with, it defies both common sense and basic precepts of modern psychology. A person molested as a child by a person of the same gender would be more likely to repress the incident and its ramifications and overcompensate either through asexuality or hyperheterosexuality.
The fact that NAMBLA exists should give anyone pause, but I don't see the connection.
Pointing out that the slippery slope is an argumentative fallacy is crucial to this debate because it is so often used to associate homosexuality on a moral par with far more insidious and destructive behaviors that do not involve consent whether matrimonial or just sexual. As to "why it's needed," I've pointed out over and over again that a) It's a matter of social equality and b) Any objection to it lacks, almost by definition, a material concern.
~Jason
November 6, 2009 - 11:35 ET by choselife3x1. Safeguarding women and children is an explanation of its origins, but
not of its current function. Or, if that is its current function, it
has failed dramatically in an overwhelming number of instances.
If it is a failed institution, why do gays want to take part in it? As for failing dramatically, the failure is not in the institution itself, but in the people who fail to uphold it in their personal lives.
"The fault lies not in the institution, but in ourselves" (to butcher Shakespeare..)
2. Because many people look at marriage as more than an arrangement of power.
I didn't say arrangement of power, I said balance of risk. Your wife has your word that you will stick by her, does she not? She also has the assurance that you're going to stay with her and support her through pregnancy and child-rearing, does she not? You're not going to walk out on your wife and child, are you?
Do you think she has a greater basis for believing that since you took vows to the effect, as opposed to refusing to? She believes in you because you made a contract with her. You are an honorable man. She can trust that. Security.
In exchange for her giving herself to you and bearing your children in her body, you have given her security for herself and those children. It's a trade, a bargain that carries an imbalance of risk, therefore a mutually beneficial contract is agreed to in order to protect the more vulnerable party.
You are her protecter, you stand by her and support her and help her to bear the burden of parenthood. She can trust you to keep your word, and she is proud to have a man who stood up before the world and declared his loyalty, as she did.
I do see the failure of heterosexuality to widely maintain the sanctity
of marriage as an obvious rebuttal to the idea that allowing homosexual
couples access to it will somehow besmirch this heretofore
pure-as-the-driven-snow institution.
The failure has nothing to do with heterosexuality, but with a societal lapse in standards of ethical responsibility. Therefore the second half of your statement holds no water.
And "it's already broken, so why not alter its fundamental meaning"is a fallacy in itself. That's like saying, "His leg is broken, so why don't we just give him a gender-altering surgery?" And again, marriage itself isn't broken, the people who violate it are.
Your marriage is not a "failed institution" because you are both keeping your word. That is all that is needed to fix the state of the family, personal responsibility and integrity.
Oops, accidentally hit the post button! I wasn't quite done..
a) It's a matter of social equality and b) Any objection to it lacks, almost by definition, a material concern.
You have called marriage a social institution that has failed miserably and doesn't mean what it used to, so why do you then imply it confers exalted status?
My material concern is that militant perverts are demanding to have the rest of society put its stamp of approval on their "alternative lifestyle".
*"Perverts" Homosexual sex is a biologically unnatural act, a perversion of biological sexual behavior. We've had that talk and you conceded that point! (I never forget such things...;-)
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
What the heck?
November 5, 2009 - 18:30 ET by general companyGood grief Jason, what in the heck makes you think it stops with gays. Since when. We change the term marriage for gays, then we are suddenly OBLIGATED to look at every other groups debate on it. Your smart enough to know this also.
No church should be forced to consecrate a marriage that goes against their principles, I'll agree there.
Your joking right? Give them the right to marry, and they will be banging on this door the following day. Who do you think you are fooling? Gays always want more, the only group that rivals them with wanted rights, are Muslims.
Exactly how are you, or your marriage if you have one, affected by gay marriage?
Because it normalizes it. Go ahead, call me a homophobes, call me what ever you want. But from the public displays I have seen from the gay community, I dont want them influencing my kids, dont want there "beliefs" taught to my kids willy nilly, like they are some kind of a responsible group, they arnt. Oh sure, I relies the few give the majority a bad name, so what?
Why dont Gays start there own ceremony, why do they feel the need to pervert ours?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
This entire argument is
November 5, 2009 - 20:46 ET by JasonCThis entire argument is based on your own barely-anecdotal experience with homosexual individuals. For the third time, I have elaborated above on exactly why gay marriage does not open any channels - legal, pragmatic, or logical - for the institution of the other marriage arrangements you suggest will follow on its heels. All it leads to is arguments of the slippery slope variety, which are, by definition, fallacious.
The next thing they'll want is to demand that churches sanctify their marriages? Well, maybe, though it seems pretty apparent that your only support for that is your, indeed, homophobic, belief that homosexuality is all about having a voracious appetite that can never be satisfied, whether politically or sexually. And if your prediction turned out to be true, I would not support the idea that individual church should be forced to consecrate any marriage of which they don't approve. However, offering the identical legal status, and designation, of marriage to gay couples, is a separate issue. What it may or may not lead to is immaterial at this juncture.
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 20:50 ET by MrShy"Why dont Gays start their own ceremony, why do they feel the need to pervert ours?"
Read that line again. And keep reading it. And resist going to your keyboard for a little while. Please.
Which line?
November 5, 2009 - 20:52 ET by Sergeant ROCK"Why dont Gays start their own ceremony, why do they feel the need to pervert ours?"
That one?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Sarge
November 5, 2009 - 20:55 ET by MrShy"Why dont Gays start their own ceremony, why do they feel the need to pervert ours?"
That one, above, yes.
As I wrote earlier:
November 5, 2009 - 20:58 ET by JasonCAs I wrote earlier: "Separate but equal" is inherently unequal.
No doubt there are gay people who have enacted their own ceremonies of commitment, love, etc.
But it seems quite clear that such alternatives are necessary only because of their exclusion from the privileges and access to basic social institutions that we straight folk are able to enjoy without a second thought.
In this case, an institution which straight people haven't exactly done a bang-up job of keeping pure and holy.
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 21:01 ET by MrShyYou didn't hesitate for a moment and think about it. You went right back onto your alphabet keys. Tsk tsk.
:p
Jason (arg)
November 5, 2009 - 21:05 ET by MrShy"In this case, an institution which straight people haven't exactly done a bang-up job of keeping pure and holy."
Okay, now your argument is entering into new territory. The "it ain't so hot to begin with, sooooo...." one. Reminiscent of "Bush/conservies haven't been perfect and have been sort of a socialists, too, sooooo...." let's take it up a few notches!
Is it how you liberals are wired that makes you think this way?
BS Jason
November 5, 2009 - 21:57 ET by general companyIn this case, an institution which straight people haven't exactly done a bang-up job of keeping pure and holy.
My only marriage will last as long as we both shall live. Your excuses are getting pretty damn lame. The society you liberals have created is what leads to poor marriages along with high drop out rates, crime, drug use, and all around bad behavior. But no, it's us married folks who are not holding up our end,,,,,,good grief.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Am I late with this?
November 5, 2009 - 22:43 ET by general companyElton John Comes Out Against 'Gay Marriage'
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Ah, of course, "us
November 6, 2009 - 10:46 ET by JasonCAh, of course, "us liberals" have created all of the nation's ills. How could I have forgotten.
And my pointing out that heterosexual couples haven't exactly made a good case for the sanctity of marriage isn't an argument for gay marriage itself. Rather, it's a counter-argument against the inane notion that gay marriage is going to somehow sully the institution.
If one wanted to continue this line of argument and be really intellectually consistent, one would also need to advocate putting measures to ban divorce and more strictly prosecute adultery on the ballot. Since anti-gay marriage activists see fit to tell a substantial demographic what they may not do, why not also tell an even larger demographic what they must do?
But then, divorce and adultery, in the context of opposite sex couples, doesn't have that same indescribable ickiness as homosexuality, does it?
Let's be honest, this is what it comes down to for most who make such a big stink about an issue that doesn't affect them in any way, shape, or form...the ick factor.
Jason
November 6, 2009 - 12:23 ET by MrShy"Let's be honest, this is what it comes down to for most who make such a big stink about an issue that doesn't affect them in any way, shape, or form...the ick factor."
Yes. So lets leave the ick factor out of something traditional that has spanned, unchanged, over many centuries, what do you say?
Conversely, let's also be honest that your rabid insistence that the tent of the definition of marriage be expanded comes down to you just wishing for the gay culture to be fully accepted as normal in society. Cool?
Jason, you are lost
November 6, 2009 - 18:08 ET by general companyIf one wanted to continue this line of argument and be really
intellectually consistent, one would also need to advocate putting
measures to ban divorce and more strictly prosecute adultery on the
ballot.
What the heck this has to do with same sex marriage I will never know. So we must make marriage more restrictive in order to keep same sexes from marrying? What the heck does this have to do with Gays?
Since anti-gay marriage activists see fit to tell a substantial demographic what they may not do, why not also tell an even larger demographic what they must do?
I am NOT anti gay, nore am I the activist. Again your argument has nothing to do with Gays getting married.
But then, divorce and adultery, in the context of opposite sex couples,
doesn't have that same indescribable ickiness as homosexuality, does
it?
Good grief, you are not making much of a case for yourself. This is compleatly immaterial.
Let's be honest, this is what it comes down to for most who make such a
big stink about an issue that doesn't affect them in any way, shape, or
form...the ick factor.
Wow, you have come off of the rails. Just because I do not believe gays should able to make my marriage irrelevant has nothing to do with how I feel about Gay folks. Like I said before, make you own ceremony, your own standards. Have your own churches, preachers, be creative, what ever it takes. But Marriage is between a Man and Woman, once it is not, then whats the point?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Jason (again)
November 5, 2009 - 20:58 ET by MrShy"The next thing they'll want is to demand that churches sanctify their marriages? Well, maybe...."
When you reach the "well, maybe" part, don't you think it's time to put this debate to sleep?
Translated = You lose?
:)
No. Because what "they"
November 5, 2009 - 21:00 ET by JasonCNo. Because what "they" may or may not ask for next is not relevant to what it is right to legalize now. To say otherwise would be to cling to the slippery slope fallacy like a tree in a hurricane.
As you may or may not have noticed over the years, Shy, this debate is one upon which I will not concede too much ground.
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 21:27 ET by MrShyYou're not conceding much ground to your courageous defense of perversion and it's fight to be recognized as normal and to be fully accepted as such by all?
Okie dokie.
Jason, because you say it doesnt make it so
November 5, 2009 - 21:26 ET by general companyFor the third time, I have elaborated above on exactly why gay marriage
does not open any channels - legal, pragmatic, or logical - for the
institution of the other marriage arrangements you suggest will follow
on its heels.
False, it absolutely does. The proof is the simple face that Gays want same sex marriage. If you continue with this line of thinking you are either being obtuse or extremely naive. In fact I would bet that other groups are already pursuing it, motivated by the same sex marriage groups.
And if your prediction turned out to be true, I would not support the
idea that individual church should be forced to consecrate any marriage
of which they don't approve.
Oh, well bless your soul, because you proclaim it, it shall not be done, yea right. Get a grip, I can be called any name imaginable by a Gay person, by if I retaliate,,,,,,,,,hate crime. Proof that some of these people are not adult enough to even understand marriage.
However, offering the identical legal status, and designation,
of marriage to gay couples, is a separate issue. What it may or may
not lead to is immaterial at this juncture.
What? Of course it is material, and is a relivent issue. If they enter into a civil union, and want what ever benefits as being married,, Then fine, my objections disappear.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Forcing gay marriage on churches
November 5, 2009 - 21:37 ET by Sergeant ROCKI seem to recall a story where members of a congregation in a church in Russia burned down their church rather than allow a scheduled 'forced' gay marriage take place there.
And recently, in Britain a priest or preacher was visited by the police and was told to tone it down.
What liberals always fail to acknowledge is the unintended consequences of their chicanery.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Very good SR
November 5, 2009 - 21:46 ET by general companyThey always claim one thing wont lead to another, as if were stupid. When that doesnt work, they generously claim they wont support it. What a hollow statement that is
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Hollow statements
November 5, 2009 - 21:50 ET by Sergeant ROCKKind of like 'I support the troops, but not the war'?
Hollow indeed. Of course, they won't actually DO anything to stop it, but they will not 'support' it. lol.. Liberals are so vacuous.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Jason
November 5, 2009 - 14:52 ET by MrShyIf it "blows your mind" then your mind must be small and weak and easy to detonate.
We here have large, strong minds.
Sorry, that was delivered by FedEx right to my door, so I had to.
I noticed you didn't touch on polygamy here.
November 5, 2009 - 16:10 ET by KarmaDid banning polygamy start us on a slippery slope to banning other alternative marriages?
Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.
Jason, when you get a chance.
November 5, 2009 - 23:51 ET by KarmaHelp me to understand your rules on marriage here. No hurry though. Get some rest if you need it.
Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.
I'm not sure I understand
November 6, 2009 - 10:49 ET by JasonCI'm not sure I understand your line of questioning. How is the preference for multiple partners analogous to sexual preference.
Which would be worse, to be told you could only be married to one person, or to be told you could only be married to someone of a gender to which you are fundamentally not attracted?
The question relates to
November 6, 2009 - 11:18 ET by KarmaThe question relates to marriage, not preference. You touched on children, inanimate objects, etc... but you didn't mention polygamy.
Neither. I'd form a civil union with whom I wanted and get on with my life.
Hi. My name is John Q. Public, but some just call me racist.
If the MSM doesn't report
November 4, 2009 - 20:40 ET by Dan DiegoIf the MSM doesn't report it, it didn't happen. This gives cover to the Gay lobby's massive efforts (heard many out of state forces involved) and minimizes damage to their cause by Not high-lighting the citizens rejection of gay marriage.
DD... Precisely. You
November 4, 2009 - 20:43 ET by bigtimerDD...
Precisely.
You hit the nail on the head.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Normals 31, Sodomites 0
November 4, 2009 - 20:50 ET by Sergeant ROCKWah.. Wah.. Waaaaahhhh!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Tim: is there any comparison to, say,when the Iowa Supreme Court
November 4, 2009 - 22:05 ET by jondelwicheruled on gay marriage? Was that ignored on the morning shows, also?
It would be shameful to not report news simply because the newspeople dont "like" it. Or, is that why they are all going bankrupt? If the IA decision was similarly ignored, then I guess it seems fair........
Iowa, too
November 4, 2009 - 23:17 ET by Tim GrahamThey've been quiet on the gay front, including Iowa. (Check out CMI's report.) They've tried to keep the whole issue on a low boil and let liberals win.
Why gay marriage in Iowa is off the radar for now
November 4, 2009 - 23:28 ET by nkviking75Not much has been said about the gay marriage issue in Iowa because there's no real news on the issue. The Legislature won't meet until January, so that's the soonest they could begin the amendment process. Given the Dems' lock on the legislature and the governorship, I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Legislative and gubernatorial campaigns aren't likely to begin for a few months. Our state constitution requires a referrendum every 10 years asking the people if they want a constitutional convention. It might fasttrack the admendment process if that's approved in the 2010 election. Barring something offbeat like a county official refusing to cater to gay couples (which probably would have happened by now if it was going to), it's pretty unlikely you'll hear much of anything about gay marriage in Iowa--unless it's to tell us what a wonderful thing it is.
“Always love your country — but never trust your government!" -- Bob Novak (1931-2009)
thanks for the link
November 5, 2009 - 08:34 ET by jondelwicheWhat an odd news approach on such a hot button topic!
I suppose they figure "reporting" would trigger a backlash like we just saw in Maine.
There is a reason old media is failing.
Nice thread, however = reporting the news, how old-fashioned
:o)
Interesting that instead of a headline "31st State Votes to
November 4, 2009 - 22:31 ET by Cape ConservativeKeep Traditional Marriage" it has to be pointed out that those meanies voted against the darn lawmakers who KNEW BETTER than the great unwashed, knuckle-dragging masses and passed a law that went against the traditional values that have seen this great country of ours flourish. Instead, lawmakers across the land (and judges as in Mass) have taken the law in their own hands and COMPLETELY IGNORED the concerns of the citizens.
How I wish Mitt had not left office to try for the presidency. I am quite sure he would have won again, had he stayed, and he would have made sure the legislature would have had to vote. Many legislators did not want to vote and have their constituents know they did/did not support traditional marriage. I'm quite sure it would have passed and put on the ballot, giving residents of Mass the opportunity to decide such an important issue, NOT the state judiciary! But that was NOT to be in the socialist state (commonwealth) of Massachusetts! Take a good LONG HARD look, folks...this is how the USSA is going to end up! Socialized medicine (yes, Mitt signed to my regret...though it came from the Democrat legislature), liberal programs, sanctuary cities, NO punishment for crimes the usual sentence from the liberal judges, and of course, the state judiciary deciding IT had the power to write law! We are a living breathing taste of what I see in the handwriting on the wall at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. BEWARE!
This comment comes from a proud Tea Party attendee, otherwise designated by Homeland Security as a Domestic Right Wing Terrorist! And now by our president as a 'swiftboater' - both titles I'll wear proudly! It is no dishonor to be in a minority in the cause of liberty and virtue ~ Sam Adams
202.224.3121 LET CONGRESS HEAR THE ROAR OF THE SILENT MAJORITY!
202.456.1111 WHITE HOUSE COMMENT LINE
RIGHTS...
November 5, 2009 - 00:26 ET by danybhoyWhile I could care less about "gay marriage" or "civil unions", & I will say that if you love someone & you want to be together, go for it. If you can most of, if not all of the "rights" of a marriage in a "civil union", that should be the road taken. Marriage is between men & women, it's not about same sex relationships.
I love how this issue has become about a constitutional right to gay marriage when most of those pushing for it are always trying to ban the ACTUAL constitutional right to firearms. Lets face it people, there are rights, & then there are rights. Healthcare is another issue, it's a "right", so it should be provided by the gov't. Should the gov't provide us with firearms as well, since that is an ACTUAL right?
All in all, "gay marriage" burns political capital on an issue that not too many people give a crap about. It's an issue, but not much of one, & the "gay mafia" are pushing the Demacrats in an unhealthy direction, in a political way.
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
Keep Traditional Marriage"
November 5, 2009 - 03:25 ET by Ankharanby that do you mean REAL traditional marriages or just what has been tossed out there in the last 50 years as so-called traditional.
If you really understood what traditional marriage was you would be stoned for supporting it these days.
What you meant to say is that YOUr and a few million other ideas on what they consider acceptable marriage, which BTW, is a repression of equality under the law, and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is also discriminatory based on sexual choice. But.. that is okay... so long as you can stomp all over an individuals right to make a decision whenthey are all grown up, in good legal standing, and a citizen of this republic... that is... unless you disagree with thier idea of what makes them happy.
Marriage is a religious rite and should be left out of the hands of governmental regulation. To allow a government to tell a person who they can wed based on sexual identity of an adult is to give the goverment respect of religion, which BTW, is way off course for what was specifically denied the feral government. remember... respect no religion?
Yes, I know, some people choose to get married by a JOP but none the less marriage and the idea of marriage is religious and falls under religion as a whole.
All peopel say when they say they are against gay marriage or "for" traditional marriage is that they support denial of an individual, who is in good legal standing, and of sound mind, and of legal age, not to have th same rights they enjoy. Hypocrites.
If you do not agree wiht gay marriage... don't marry a gay person. It is that simple. Otherwise, keep yourselves out of other peoples bedrooms like you expect them to stay out of yours. Keep this in mind too.. most states still have blue laws that prohibit anything other than the missionary style of procreating. Is that something yo ureally want pushed? How many of you break that law? How many would be horrified and mortified if the feral and state government started pushing those laws and infringed on your rights. I'd guess just by what we see in American culture that most of you would blow a gasket, pointing fingers, and yelling unfair.. and stay out of my bedroom.
You would be right... but keep pushing that traditional marriage BS and guess what, one of these days the homo's are going to get a clue ands start pushing these laws. Equality under the law.
We are talking about
November 5, 2009 - 03:49 ET by Dan The Man 2We are talking about marriage in teh eyes of laws set by government with certain priviliges under those laws. If you wish to marry your pet sheep then go ahead but dont expect it to be recognized by any government or have any rights under teh laws.
And traditional marriage as recognized by the founders and the Bible which the founders relied upon has been around for many thousands of years.
you don't get it... what is so hard about this?
November 5, 2009 - 07:57 ET by AnkharanEquality UNDER THE LAW.
Is that too difficult to comprehend or do you need it spelled out with definitions.
The govenment does not have any buisness regulating marriage. None. Zip. Zero. Nadda. Marriage is a religious ceremony. To regulate marriage and allow one religious set of values and not another... is respecting religion, something the feral government is specifically prohibited against.
But this doesn't matter does it? So long as you have your rights it does not matter that other citizens do not have theirs.
They did this with blacks, women, and native americans... they even did it with nationalities such as the Irish. All failed the stink test, which this also fails.
This is not a matter of gay being right or wrong. This is a matter of equality under the law, right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and most of all... government respecting one religion over another.
As far as traidtional marriage goes. Ya need to look a little further back for the meaning of of traditional marriage. You also need to look at more than one cultures understanding of it as America is a blend of cultures not just WASPS and Catholic. But again... so long as you have YOUR rights it doesn't matter.
So we should legalize polygamy, then?
November 5, 2009 - 14:29 ET by SickofLibsMarriage as defined by statutes is NOT a religious ceremony, as much you want to believe it is.
We have laws in place for the greater good of society, and since the majority rejects this notion at this time, majority rules.
Ankharans' "equality"
November 5, 2009 - 18:33 ET by matthewdeanI read both of Ankharans' posts, and one line stood out above all the others:
"This is not a matter of gay being right or wrong."
To coin a phrase, "Damn straight".
It is a matter of ALL heterosexuals, regardless of their collective, long held, beliefs, traditions, and practices, bowing down to and accepting the gay & lesbian group think mantra.
Or else, we heteros are going to be disliked, name-called, and looked down upon.
To every gay and lesbian person, and the Hollywood elite, I beg of you, please do not send that horrible meanie, Perez Hilton, to my house to chastise me personally.
I do not want to be entered into the Guiness Book of Records as the first human being to laugh myself into a coma.
Seems to me, Ankharan, that if you are not homosexual (not that there's anything wrong with being one), you are for sure a Liberal.
You have no problem taking away my right to believe in traditional marriage in order to bolster YOUR right to believe differently,
Much like taking away money I worked for and earned, and giving it to someone who not only does'nt work and did not earn that money, but that believes I am a fool for supporting and following the concept of earning my own way.
MD
"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
As far as traidtional
November 5, 2009 - 20:49 ET by Dan The Man 2As far as traidtional marriage goes. Ya need to look a little further back for the meaning of of traditional marriage.
Link or slink dude. And the Feds have no rights to regulate religion, however marriage transends religion into law and the Constitution has a full faith clause saying what happens in one state is legaland binding in another. So goes the laws concerning marriage and it becomes a fed issue. Otherwise I could care less if any other state wants to allow you to marry your pet sheep.
So the states as in the Constitution have the authority to make laws affecting religion as the Constitution only says the Feds cant do so. But, when bad laws are transferred to my state from another through full faith clauses I get angered.