Rachel Maddow Invites Guest Who Wrote Pro-Lifers Have a 'Totalitarian Impulse'

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Radical MSNBC host Rachel Maddow is a fan of the radical magazine The Nation. The magazine’s Chris Hayes is a regular Maddow guest. On Friday night, as part of an ongoing appreciation of murdered late-term abortionist George Tiller, Obama-boosting Princeton professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell came on to discuss a blog she wrote for the Nation about how pro-lifers operate with a "totalitarian impulse that generates a culture of terror rather than a culture of life."

The black professor, who's unashamed about her abortion, wants pro-lifers demonized: "We want to start making...being an anti-choice group is like being in the KKK....we want it to be socially unacceptable to be part of a group that is actively working to take away the fundamental rights, the legal rights, the capacity of doctors and patients, women and families to make these choices."

This is one of those segments where it’s extremely convenient not to schedule a guest to disagree while pro-lifers are being smeared:

MADDOW: Melissa, your writing on this subject this week has been really provocative and really interesting. It‘s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show tonight to talk about it. And one of your columns this week about it—you wrote that the anti-choice community operates with a totalitarian impulse that generates a culture of terror rather than a culture of life.

What do you mean by a totalitarian impulse?

HARRIS-LACEWELL: Well, what I mean by totalitarianism is the idea that there‘s only one right way. There‘s only one correct answer, that there‘s no gray areas, there‘s nothing complex.

So let‘s take, for example, this idea that the pill kills. Clearly, worldwide, far more women died of the complications of pregnancy and childbirth than are made ill by birth control. So, women‘s health always improves when there‘s widely available and easily accessed reproductive rights care.

Planned Parenthood—where they‘re going to go and protest—are not only abortion providers and birth control providers, they are the primary health care provider for 3 million women and teen girls in this country. Because we have such a problem with insurance, so many women only see a doctor when they see a doctor at a Planned Parenthood for routine care, like cervical cancer screenings and breast cancer screenings.

So, the idea the notion of totalitarianism here is that these anti-choice movements ignore all of that. They ignore all of the complexity of this story and they instead seek to just assert their one viewpoint.

It’s "totalitarian" to ignore "complexity." That makes it easy for liberals to accuse conservatives of totalitarianism, since they associate liberalism with nuance and complexity and conservatism with simple-minded ignorance. But let’s take the professor’s point that pro-lifers are somehow ignoring the cancer screenings at Planned Parenthood. If a restaurant offered seven choices of meat, and one of them was an endangered species, would it be "totalitarian" for environmentalists to protest outside? The interview continued:

MADDOW: And anybody outside that viewpoint—this is the really troubling part of it. I don‘t mind people being impolite and having bad arguments. I assume people with bad arguments will just lose them. That‘s the beauty of democracy, right?

But the problem is that when you do have the sort of—as you described—the sort of totalitarian impulse in the sort of movements, anybody who doesn‘t ascribe to the chosen point of view of the people who are—who are propounding it are worthy of violence. And so, you end up with this movement adopting terms like "baby killer." Dr. Tiller‘s alleged killer, Scott Roeder, reportedly said "baby killer" over and over again at a Kansas City clinic the day before Dr. Tiller was killed while he was gluing their doors shut.You‘ve written that you think that term has a really specific intended effect.

HARRIS-LACEWELL: Absolutely. This is about terror. You used the language of domestic terrorism to talk about this murder. I think that‘s exactly the right language. These are stateless actors, asserting their kind of vigilante justice outside of the rules law.

But particularly, when we use language like "baby killer," the goal is to shame women and families who have to make these difficult choices. The goal is to make them feel as though they‘re the only people who have had to deal with this, to make them feel as though they are shameful human beings so that instead of feeling ashamed of being part of a terrorizing fringe group of hatefulness, it‘s the women themselves and the families facing these tough choices who are made to feel alone ashamed. It is clearly about the production of terror.

This is where the radical lefties seem to be avoiding complexity. They want to describe as "domestic terrorism" not merely the vigilantes who seek to kill an abortionist, but want the word "terrorist" applied to everyone who would testify in public that an abortionist is killing a human being.

Harris-Lacewell loved defining pro-lifers in general as "terrorists" or like the Ku Klux Klan, just as long as the government doesn’t actually treat them as severely as the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects:

HARRIS-LACEWELL: We want to start making—it feels like being an anti-choice group is like being in the KKK. In other words, you can be in it. You certainly have every right, but, on the other hand, we want it to be socially unacceptable to be part of a group that is actively working to take away the fundamental rights, the legal rights, the capacity of doctors and patients, women and families to make these choices. So, I think what we want to do is be putting kind of pressure, social pressure against these groups. But we do want to tread very carefully on the question of civil liberties.

MADDOW: Yes. To me—I don‘t care how odious the opinion is or the position is—to me, when it comes down to justifying and advocating violence, that‘s when you start to get into Klan territory.

HARRIS-LACEWELL: Exactly.

But an almost unanimous majority of the people who tell pollsters they’re pro-life do not justify or advocate violence against abortionists or their employees. MSNBC really wants to define them all as terrorists. Here’s a slice of The Nation piece that drew in Maddow:

While the murderous rage of Tiller's assassin is not representative of the broader anti-choice movement, I believe that the anti-choice community operates with a totalitarian impulse that generates a culture of terror rather than a culture of life.

Hannah Arendt suggested that totalitarians generate terror in part by cultivating profound loneliness among their targets. Loneliness locks human beings in isolation and hampers discourse, connection, and shared experience. When we believe we are alone and misunderstood we cannot form the bonds necessary to organize and resist. There are few experiences more lonely and isolating than facing an unintended pregnancy or facing the need to terminate a desired pregnancy in order to protect maternal health. The anti-choice discourse labels the women and families who chose abortion "baby killers." It is a strategy that dehumanizes these women and the doctors who care for them.

But doesn't the left ignore how they're dehumanizing the victim of an abortion?

—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center.


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You know, with all the

You know, with all the Rachel Maddow articles showing up here, I'm thinking she now has a larger NB audience than she does MSNBC viewers. Aren't we giving this twit just a little more attention than she deserves?

___________________________________ 

Liberals constantly demand that we accept a glaring falsehood as truth; Obama's elimination of the word "terror" will make terrorist acts less terrifying

Newsbusters is being

NewsBusters is being charitable to her, that's all.:-)

“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)

I didn't know she was still

I didn't know she was still around. I thought they might have fired her because her accuracy rating was next to nil. 

"DumbAssity of Dope"

Terrorism???

I thought since "The One" was elected there was no more terrorism just "Man Made Disasters"...

Oh..I get it....if you disagree with the Great Leader you're a terrorist or dissident...BUT if you're attacking the homeland from internally or externally and you're a minority...you're not a terrorist...OK

 

Barack Obama= Half Honkey...ALL Donkey

 we want it to be socially

 we want it to be socially unacceptable to be part of a group that is
actively working to take away the fundamental rights, the legal rights,
the capacity of doctors and patients, women and families to make these
choices

Ahhh...socially unacceptable....the worst possible judgment!  

Doesn't this witch know it's already socially unacceptable?  And yet these people stand by their principles.  Go figure.

This is what happens when right and wrong are replaced by legal and illegal.  Once something is "legal" it is socially forbidden to disagree with it, no matter what.  And no one should ever try to change the law.

You know, Ms. Lacewell.....protesting is also a fundamental and legal right, (heard of the first amendment?)  but you and your ilk have spent scads of time and money over the years trying  to prevent it. You've lobbied for ever-stricter laws regulating it (you know, like pro-life people want to regulate abortion) and would, no doubt, like to see it forbidden completely.  

Hypocrite.

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows.  -Bart Simpson

 

MB,  there is an exception

MB,  there is an exception to your  'Once something is "legal"' rule.  It is totally acceptable to protest against the legality of late-late-late-term abortions (death penalty).   Of course these "babies" are not so innocent.

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Juan Williams

Juan Williams was on BOR the other night arguing the legality of partial birth abortion.  His argument that what Tiller did is ok because it's legal.  I take the stand that just because something is legal doesnt make it right.  The Apostle Paul said all things may be permitted but not all things are beneficial.

"I dont need to read a newspaper to know the world's been shaved by a drunken barber."

Walter Brennan, The Colonel, Meet John Doe, 1941

Huh? I doubt Juan would

Huh? I doubt Juan would have been using that line of reason 150 years ago in regard to a certian peculiar institution. :-)

“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)

So, if California's new

So, if California's new "marriage is between a man and a woman" law is now legal, then no left-wing extremist group (aka, the MSM, Congress, Dem lawmakers, Hollywood, etc) would ever protest it, right?

Right?

Of course I'm right. Turn on MSNBC at any time, day or night, and you'll see that all their talking heads agree with me. Yeah, right.

___________________________________ 

Liberals constantly demand that we accept a glaring falsehood as truth; Obama's elimination of the word "terror" will make terrorist acts less terrifying

There you go, T.....trying

There you go, T.....trying to make liberals live by their own standards!!

How dare you!

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows.  -Bart Simpson

 

If only they had standards,

If only they had standards, MB, that don't change day by day, and don't twist and turn in gentle breezes!

___________________________________ 

Liberals constantly demand that we accept a glaring falsehood as truth; Obama's elimination of the word "terror" will make terrorist acts less terrifying

natural self selection

She proudly aborted her own progeny.

She unreservedly killed her own offspring.

Adopting the mentality of her ilk, I guess we should all rejoice that her stupidity has been self-selected out the gene pool.

But we don't subscribe to their mentality.  Instead, I find it truly sad that this woman killed her baby and is now full of anger, trying desperately (and I do mean desperately, for how else would you explain such frothing at the mouth) to justify her unconscionable, selfish act.  May she find forgiveness from the Lord, the Giver of Life.

 

"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann

Let the science guide us . . .

"So let‘s take, for example, this idea that the pill kills. Clearly, worldwide, far more women died of the complications of pregnancy and childbirth than are made ill by birth control. So, women‘s health always improves when there‘s widely available and easily accessed reproductive rights care."

Ah, then pregnancy is harmful -- a potential killer of women.

The government solution is clear then.  Like carbon dioxide, pregnancy can be declared a pollutant and regulated by the EPA. 

Since the Obama EPA is obsessed with reducing the "carbon footprint" of human beings, eliminating the root cause of said footprint can fall under their jurisdiction.  

The decision to have a child can then be balanced through carbon-offsets, like buying carbon-credits from Prince Albert Gore.  Expectant parents can buy credits, which in turn will be used to reward women who abort rather than suffer the mental anquish of contributing to the growth of the carbon footprint.

Hey, as Obama has stated, we will let science guide us.  At least until the Left comes to the realization that each aborted baby is one less potential taxpayer.

 

Yes my son..  you have

Yes my son..  you have journeyed down the path enlightenment on your trek towards the holy entity of Liberalism.  Guided by your "Science spirit guide", you have reached a wise conclusion.   I will inform the One that I have located his Womb Czar.

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Womb Czar

That'll look good on my business card. :-)

 

The key word in that quote

The key word in that quote is the "Clearly" at the beginning.  Whenever a liberal begins with "clearly," that is the "no argument allowed" signal that what comes next is their own opinion with no supporting facts, but that everyone who has a brain will agree with.

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows.  -Bart Simpson

 

"totalitarianism is the

"totalitarianism is the idea that there‘s only one right way... we want it to be socially unacceptable to be [pro-life]"

Anyone else see the irony here?  So typical..  screaming against totalitarianism while spouting totalitarianism.

"they see a doctor at a Planned Parenthood for routine care, like cervical cancer screenings..."

Hey, we kill innocent babies, but we screen for cancer too!   Nazi's also argued that Hitler made the trains run on time.

"We want to start making—it feels like being an anti-choice group is like being in the KKK"

The KKK killed innocent people.   Abortion kills millions of innocent people.   You tell me who's more like the KKK.

I'm not passing judgement on people who have had abortions.   We all make mistakes.  But to battle for abortion under the guise of "choice" is reprehensible.  

 

When asked if he went to war with Iraq  to derail the impeachment vote:  “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Good points

Let's not forget that, historically, the KKK has been a DEMOCRAT group. They essentially ran the 1920 Democratic National Convention.

Also, if we had no abortions since 1973, millions of black and Latino babies would have been born. If pro-lifers were like the KKK, why would they have wanted those lives to be saved?

Lastly, Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, actually spoke before a KKK rally. I don't think there is any record of a pro-life leader addressing that group.

They are blind to their own

They are blind to their own irony.

"they see a doctor at a Planned Parenthood for routine care, like cervical cancer screenings..."

Right.  Most women have a GYN practitioner, but they go to Planned Parenthood for Pap smears?

Give me a break!

I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows.  -Bart Simpson

 

"totalitarianism"

to·tal·i·tar·i·an [ tō tàllə térree ən ]

adjective 

 

Definition:

 

centralized and dictatorial: relating to or operating a centralized government system in which a single party without opposition rules over political, economic, social, and cultural life

Somebody please clarify to me how opposition to abortion qualifies.

 

"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann

Wow

Wow - two complete airhead, tolerant liberals dialogueing.  "You have a right to be in any group you want but we are going to demonize and marginalize you."  Which means you dont have a right to be in that group.

Talk about tolerance of the left.  The only thing I can say, is, bring it.

"I dont need to read a newspaper to know the world's been shaved by a drunken barber."

Walter Brennan, The Colonel, Meet John Doe, 1941

when you start to get into Klan territory.

That would be your party the democrats

It was the Democrat Party that created the Ku Klux Klan as an enforcement arm to terrorize Black and White Republicans.

Reagan VS Carter and 0bama

True

The KKK was essentially the militant arm of the Democrat Party.

A better example of totalitarian impulse for abortion

China's policy of one child per family, and the forced abortions that come with it

Yes, WE'RE "totalitarian"

But, to date, abortionists and their supporters have killed 49 million babies and harmed millions of women.

Pro-lifers (who really aren't pro-life because they murder) have killed 5 abortionists.

 49 million to 5, to quote Ann Coulter.

It's not "totalitarian" to think a woman's right to do with "her body" what she pleases ends when a new body (her unborn child) is created, especially when an overwhelming majority of these "unplanned pregnancies" result from consentual sexual encounters.  Only an idiot doesn't know sex can lead to pregnancy.  So a woman's free to do with her body what she wants up to the point where a separate body is created.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

Logical fallacies - and then there's lying

The logic in that conversation is appalling. It's not just a travesty of logic; it's a deliberate distortion of associations. 

  • I have a friend who's Italian. You know, the Italians fought on the side of Hitler in World War II. Therefore, my friend is totalitarian.
  • I'm pro-life. A pro-lifer murdered a doctor. Therefore, pro-lifers are murderers.

In logic, it's a fallacy to accuse the whole group because one individual did something. It's a fallacy, meaning that it's impossible for it to be true. It takes a scorecard to see the broad associations these two are throwing out there. Example:

  • Harris-Lacewell starts by connecting anti-choice groups with the KKK.  "... it feels like being an anti-choice group is like being in the KKK."
  • Then she offers some parallels that (she hopes) will connect the groups in the audience's mind. She claims that just like the KKK, the pro-life movement wants to take away someone's rights. (No, we deny that they were rights to begin with.) In her calculus, anyone who disputes a claim of civil rights is "taking away" those rights.
  • Maddow then completes the mud-slinging association by saying that anyone who advocates violence (which, by the way, no one in the pro-life movement is doing ... pure straw man) moves into "Klan territory."

How did they get from pro-life to Klan? They just used vague associations. Harris-Lacewell started by "it feels like," then she associated the Klan with pro-lifers by distorting opposition to a claim of civil rights, then Maddow associated pro-lifers with the Klan by alleging a non-existent adocacy for violence (no, one guy advocated violence, not the group).

All they had was feathers, so they used extra tar.

actually...

Actually, the Klan association is more with the Pro-Choice people, if you ask me. Fully 80% of these clinics are in inner city and fully three times the number of african-american women abort. Its a planned genocide of inner city babies by the liberal elite. And they call themselves non-racist?

please help me out here...

How is killing inner city black babies a culture of life?

→ Good question

Makes no sense, but White Liberals do seem to get a kick out of sacrificing black children, don't they.  And the Government pays them to do it.

The only reason Clarence Thomas is on the Court is because he is black - Joe Biden

Melissa Harris-Lacewell may as well join the KKK herself

Planned Parenthood (aka Murder, Inc.) was founded by a racist white woman for the specific purpose of limiting the number of minority (as in black) children born into this world.

This hideous woman is an insane, self-loathing, racist murderer who willingly supports the genocide of her own people.

Why would anyone be interested in what a woman, who wiillingly  participated in the murder of her own child, has to say about anything?

-Dave

Obama's health care "reform" plan is to blow up the building in order to fix a leak in the roof-Herman Cain

Last Time I Checked, Vandalizing An Abortion Clinic Is...

Most of the time, they (on MSNBC) sound vapid, but I have a very hard time believing they want peaceful protesters to be prosecuted for terrorist charges. If anything, I believe they simply want to go after those pro-life protesters who actively broke the law for political purposes, and I'm not talking about peaceful protests. It is a fact that Dr. Tiller's clinic had been vandalized several times in the interim he has performed late-term abortions. As recently as a few months ago, right after Tiller was acquitted of committing illegal abortions (but was convicted of tax evasion and fraud, I won't deny that), some demonstrators took the law into their own hands and dug holes into the rooftop of his clinic. Last time I checked, vandalism of any kind is illegal. Why do you think we go after eco-terrorists who torch SUV dealerships? It's not like you can just grow an SUV out of the soil. It's private property, meaning it has monetary value. Violating the sanctity of your private property is a crime, and it must be punishable.

And let's not forget that Dr. Tiller was shot in his arms years before by a worthless piece of human filth (who, thank God, is rotting in prison as we speak). Is there any justification for shooting anyone if they have not done anything illegal? Ever? I don't care if abortions are against some Christian god's view or some other malarkey. Your country comes first before your religion, and the law of the country is pretty clear that assault with a deadly weapon is punishable. No excuses.

The question I would put on the table is this: Do you think we are better off with Dr. Tiller murdered? Do you think we are better off with lone vigilantism violating the law of the land? Two wrongs don't make a right. EVER.

→ No sticks

I don't think we're better off with Tiller having been murdered.

The only reason Clarence Thomas is on the Court is because he is black - Joe Biden

I agree

I would rather have him convicted and thrown in jail himself.

Two wrongs never make a right, unless your a liberal it seems

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Invitation

"Your country comes first before your religion." Care to have a friendly, respectful argument on that? I'll be glad to take you up on that one.

As for your question, I'll answer it. Of course we aren't better off ... but what does that mean? This wasn't a decision planned by the masses in the hope of society being "better off." This was one guy who committed murder. Ask a bunch of pro-lifers whether they would have preferred that no one murdered Tiller, and you'll get an overwhelming affirmative.

Who is making excuses for this murderer?

Is there any

Is there any justification for shooting anyone if they have not done anything illegal?

In a word, yes.  Legality does not always equal morality (although it ought to, and in most cases today it does).  History is replete with examples.  For starters, ask someone like Geronimo.

Abortions are indeed against the Christian God, for He is, after all, the Author of Life.  However....

It does not follow that this therefore relegates the issue to the realm of the Christian faith.  Stealing is also against the Christian God.  Does that mean we need to abolish laws against stealing, because, after all, they have their origins in Christian Faith?

This is an oft parroted political framing scheme employed by the new-left, one that I (and many, many others) simply do not buy.  I have observed the physical evidence, namely the outcome of the abortion "procedure," and there can be no other conclusion than abortion is immoral, unethical and a crime against humanity.  Declaring it legal by judicial fiat does not change that simple fact.

None of this is to say that Tiller's murder is justified.  The pro-life movement, as evidenced by swift statements of condemnation from its leaders, does not condone this violence.  However, what it does say is that late-term abortion-on-demand ought not be legal.

 

"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann