'Bush Lied' Argument Doesn't Match Facts -- Democrats Say

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Washington Post Editorial Page Editor Fred Hiatt will no doubt upset liberal bloggers with his Monday column underscoring something the rest of the national media elite hasn't exactly underscored: that the "Bush lied, people died" line doesn't match what Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee found and some media outlets forwarded. For instance, on Thursday's NBC Nightly News, Brian Williams announced:

In a long-awaited report, the Senate Intelligence Committee today concluded that President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials exaggerated and misrepresented the intelligence about Saddam Hussein and his possible connections to al Qaeda in making the case for war in Iraq. Most of the Republicans on the committee notably and sharply disagreed with some of the report's findings.

But Hiatt pointed out:

There's no question that the administration, and particularly Vice President Cheney, spoke with too much certainty at times and failed to anticipate or prepare the American people for the enormous undertaking in Iraq.

But dive into [Sen. Jay] Rockefeller's report, in search of where exactly President Bush lied about what his intelligence agencies were telling him about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, and you may be surprised by what you find.

On Iraq's nuclear weapons program? The president's statements "were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates."

On biological weapons, production capability and those infamous mobile laboratories? The president's statements "were substantiated by intelligence information."

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On chemical weapons, then? "Substantiated by intelligence information."

On weapons of mass destruction overall (a separate section of the intelligence committee report)? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information." Delivery vehicles such as ballistic missiles? "Generally substantiated by available intelligence." Unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to deliver WMDs? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information."

As you read through the report, you begin to think maybe you've mistakenly picked up the minority dissent. But, no, this is the Rockefeller indictment. So, you think, the smoking gun must appear in the section on Bush's claims about Saddam Hussein's alleged ties to terrorism.

But statements regarding Iraq's support for terrorist groups other than al-Qaeda "were substantiated by intelligence information." Statements that Iraq provided safe haven for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other terrorists with ties to al-Qaeda "were substantiated by the intelligence assessments," and statements regarding Iraq's contacts with al-Qaeda "were substantiated by intelligence information." The report is left to complain about "implications" and statements that "left the impression" that those contacts led to substantive Iraqi cooperation.

Hiatt concludes that the problem was not that Bush overstated the intelligence as much as the intelligence was so off-kilter, which is a danger for a president of either party. But Hiatt is left-wing enough to ignore that Democrats are especially reluctant to use military force, and so even if intelligence reports of threats were strongly worded, it might not spur any action. If President Gore had faced all this overdone intelligence on Iraq's capabilities, no one really believes he would have gone to war. It's even questionable whether President Gore would have done more to dislodge the Taliban in Afghanistan than President Clinton did.

—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center.


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That's funny

Neither does Nancy Pelosi's promise to bring down gas prices.

Well, the party lied about

Well, the party lied about that, but at least they admitted it. Not that it makes a flippin' difference to how high gas prices will go, but...

HA!

The ONLY thing the DNCers admitted lying about was the Iraq War to get into power. And that was a mistake or, is that a miss-speak...no matter. The admission was made at a Democrat Party Townhall. OOPS.

Liberals lie, people

Liberals lie, people die

substantiated by intelligence

Where are Pelosi and

Where are Pelosi and Reid?  The "Clinton" economy took off in '94, when the Contract with America went into effect.  The US economy started tanking in the last couple of years, driven mainly by rising fuel costs.  Wasn't that when the Dims and the MSM took over?  Doesn't anyone think there is a connection?

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."  - Sir Winston Churchill

Two years ago, in April

Two years ago, in April 2006, Her Speakerness Pelosi released the following statement (emphasis and brackets mine):

With skyrocketing gas prices, it is clear that the American people
can no longer afford the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress and its
failure to stand up to Republican big oil and gas company cronies.
Americans this week are paying $2.91 a gallon on average for regular
gasoline – 33 cents higher than last month, and double the price than
when President Bush first came to office.

“With record gas prices, record CEO pay packages, and record oil
company profits, Speaker Hastert and the Majority Congress continue to
give the American people empty rhetoric rather than join Democrats who
are working to lower gas prices now.
[no specifics given]

“Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing
gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions
of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given
to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative
fuels.”

Democrats won the majority on that pledge. Gas is now $4 plus a gallon.

What say you now, Your Speakerness???????

 

I would say that Her

I would say that Her Speakerness should "...apologize to the American people for LYING to them, and then resign."

 If she were a conservative that's what the goons on the left would be demanding, wouldn't they?

And if she were a conservative, one day would not go by without the scum and perverts in the lamestream news reminding us of this.

“Democrats have a

“Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging [price controls leading to shortages], rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies [increasing costs], tax breaks [increasing costs] and royalty relief [increasing costs] given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative [higher-priced] fuels.”  

These moe-rons think increasing costs will reduce prices? Or are the Republicans even bigger moe-rons because of their inability to refute this garbage?

  MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.

I wonder when the MSM will

I wonder when the MSM will reveal to the masses that the Dims haven't met any of their pledges.

Just kidding!  Do you think anyone will ever notice that the bulk of the policy the Dims push is designed to give our tax dollars to people who don't pay taxes so they will vote for the Dims and keep them in power?  Since we are going to open the borders and that will result in a flood of immigrants, the Dims have gone proactive and are proposing a portion of the GDP be given to the UN to aid global poverty.  That way the poor making their way to the US will have the Dims to thank for the plane ticket or the boat ride. 

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."  - Sir Winston Churchill

Let's at least parse it out...

10k,

Pelosi's comments went like this...
"With record gas prices, record CEO pay packages, and record oil
company profits, Speaker Hastert and the Majority Congress continue to
give the American people empty rhetoric rather than join Democrats who
are working to lower gas prices now.

“Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas
prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of
dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to
big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative
fuels.”

All I ask is where has she broken her promise? She continues to gather information to find a solution. As Bush said-there's no magic wand to make are current gas problems go away now or in the future.

So, since you think she hasn't done it quickly enough to your standard- What is your current solution to the problem of high gas prices for the short term and long term? Remember any "new" oil goes onto the global market at the current market price. We do not have nationalized or state-sponsored oil companies in place nor would we ever have them since we are capitalists and depend on the free market. So, what do you do? Give me a solution, please...

Syrius

 

Syrius

Get Serious!

Econ101, start the drilling and the global market would collapse back to a reasonable price. If you have read any of the latest on US reserves, you will know we sit on plenty and the new science suggests oil is being created in the tectonics, even as we type.

Pretty selfish to use OP's when we have plenty regardless of environmental concerns. The future of the US is at stake, and you would think our government had been given a shot of novacain. Except where they can make us all part of the rest of the world. YUK, who would want to go there? 

The rest of the democrat screed is so much base banter. 

Deflection...

Norto,

Drill away all you want. Once it has been attained, I repeat, does not mean it feeds our own consumption at a lower rate nor does it lower our dependency or demand. Go back to the drawing board.

If you found a new diamond mine that contained 15% of the world's supply, what would DeBeers do? Celebrate your find & help you move them to market?

Syrius

Your position indicates that

Your position indicates that no ther competition is possible.

The key is to maintain a highly competitve market by keeping the industry healthy - something the liberals in the days of "Excess (Windfall)Profits Tax" seek to do away with.

While Debeers might seek to limit the number of stones on the market, "Mr John Doe & Company" who seeks to presnt stones tot he market in a more efficient manner will increase them.

It doesn't matter what his

It doesn't matter what his solution is. He didn't make campaign promises to lower gas prices while encouraging policies that are guaranteed to do just the opposite. You can't argue that she should get more time considering she argued that the republicans weren't acting fast enough.

"She continues to gather information to find a solution."

No, she continues to gather information to find the solution she wants, not a solution that works. 139 billion barrels of domestic oil available in this country, and it is off limits because of Pelosi and her party. Instead, they spend time trying to get the polar bear listed as an endangered species primarily so they have yet ANOTHER weapon against the energy companies. That's how serious she is about solving our energy problem.

Deflection, also...

ckc1227,

It's not your solution, it's hers. As Boxer said, "Elections have consequences."

See above...and I'll add once again you & I do not control our Oil companies. Global free market, prices are dictated by supply, demand & speculation. Blame games don't find solutions. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Go back to the drawing board.

Syrius

Deflection, thy name is Syrius

No, but "blame games" were great when she used them to get elected. Now, it's turnabout time, and it's just killing you.

The Democrats ran on the lie that they could lower gas prices. You've admitted that is controlled by the world market, as most of us have known for years. Funny how now that argument suits the left, when it was denigrated in '06. Then, it was all Bush's fault!

So, the Dems are incapable of delivering on their campaign promise? Which they surely knew at the time. So, that makes it okay? Oh, Pelosi is "working on it." Yeah. Right. Great results, btw.

Talk about deflection!

"Pelosi lies, gas prices rise."

Syrius, she lied at the

Syrius, she lied at the part where she said she had a commonsense plan. She had no plan. She is so stupid she dosn't even know where to start to find a plan. She promised lower gas prices if dems got control of the congress and senate. HA! She lied and lied big time.

The soluition is to drill. Off shore and inshore, wherever there is oil.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

No plan and no common

No plan and no common sense

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

See above...

You've got to do better than just say drill away...think short term also.

OK, what are the short term

OK, what are the short term idea's? We have been trying to drill and build nuke plants for years, to prevent just this type of thing from becoming reality. But now you want short term plans,,,,How F,ing typical 

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Dang, you got nothing.

GC,

You presented a long term unpredictable future by drilling for oil on domestic land and now adding to this discussion building Nuke plants. I clearly showed through a simple example how no matter if you were to drill, it would not have any effect on demand or dependency. Pelosi presents a solution and everyone shoots it down with none of their own ideas except the oil companies idea of drilling for more oil domestically. I ask you for a short term solution and your asking me. A lot of you think any opposing idea is childish. This reminds me of the old joke...

"Why do adults always ask children what they would like to be when they become adults?" Because adults have no idea on what to become and would like some fresh ideas.

It's the same old story with all of you, no solutions to the problems when asked for some ideas to the problem. The elections are around the corner, I hope you are prepared for the change you deserve!

Syrius

 Hmm, seems I also asked

 Hmm, seems I also asked you for short term solutions, have you any? I also explained that there were a lot of us thinking about this LONG before some of you seemed to give a rat ass about it. But now that YOU are feeling the pinch you want it to go away tomorrow, sorry this isn't a tooth ache, its cancer, there are no easy solutions.

Or did you say Nancy has one?

Hope your ready too bud.

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Short term as in your own wallet...

GC,

Saving money. It's that simple. The probability of gas prices ever decreasing in the next couple of years or beyond is low. The market is already working. SUV supplies are high and sitting idle. Hybrids are in high demand and are seen now more than ever (gosh, to think everyone thought it was treehuggers and hollywood elites who drove those things.). Mass transit is seeing explosive growth. For those who know how to budget and cut costs, they are reaping what they sow. As for others who have not heeded the warnings, they are the ones suffering. It's about tight budgets and stretching the dollar. Teaching your family consumer economics will be key to being prosperous in the ensuing economic downturn. Reducing your own dependency on oil only creates more money in your bank account. There are many ways to ween ourselves off of the oil we think we deserve at a lower price. The fools are the ones with no money.

Syrius

 

Nancy's "solution"

Mentions, once again, the perpetually undefined word: "gouging." Please, if you think she has a solution, define the word. Exactly what percentage profit may an oil business make, under Nancy's 'solution'?? For all the love idiots from Pelosi to O'Reilly have for that word, they NEVER want to give me a definition. No definition = no possible claim to "solution," or I get to use magic words, too, and you won't like that.

And see reply below, too. Your coke analogy doesn't do too well for either you or for drug warriors around here. War on poverty? More poverty. War on drugs? More drugs. Government's a failure, and bigger government -- like BOTH "major" parties want -- is a big failure, no matter what it tries these days.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Do you have statistics on

Do you have statistics on how much oil is out there offshore? Is it even worth the expense of setting up oil rigs?

In the gulf, there are

In the gulf, there are getting ready to set two rigs up on a reserve said to be the size of the Saudi's largest field. Off the coast of Florida, there are vast amounts of oil. Some of which are being drilled by China and Cuba, 45 miles off the coast of Florida. The north sea is rich in oil as is the Gulf of Mexico. There are 4000 off shore rigs now set up and drilling or pumping. And you ask if it is worth the expense??? Do you never read??

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I'll read any link you show

I'll read any link you show me that cites these stores of oil.

Bal, we have been down this

Bal, we have been down this road before. It is not my job to educate you. Thats your job. If you wish to remain in blissful ignorance, do so. But dont try to put the fault on anyone else by you. The info you ask for is easy to find. Should be, even easy for you.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

So far the estimates I've

So far the estimates I've found say the reserves would add up to 2 months of energy.

Excellent point, Bal...

balboa,

I would like to see bassndude show us the latest figures and how soon we can get our hands on it.

Syrius

 

How soon

Would depend on whether it's worth drilling in the first place, which (here's time #4 asking the same question...) would depend on a numerical definition for the word "gouging." You have yet to offer said number, and you have yet to admit that you can't, either. Why not? It's a failure you'll be able to share with Pelosi, O'Reilly, and various others, so it's no shame.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Offshore, dufus

Start to finish, about 5 to 7 years. Smarty. 3 years to build the platforms, one to drill and one to start the oil flow. Maybe another 2 years if they build a pipe line to the coast. Same goes, do you never read anything. Its ok if your stupid, but for ignorance, there is no excuse.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

What website, book, TV show, pamphlet...?

bassndude,

Come on let's take a look at the info together. Trust through verification.

Syrius

 

If we were capitalists & depended on a free market...

Why would the communists of Cuba and China be free to drill off our coast when us "capitalists" can't?? Please explain, because my head hurts whenever I try to think about it.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

 Makes mine hurt too, the

 Makes mine hurt too, the moment they decide to let us get our own oil, the prices will drop like a lead brick. Wont be long, before they claim this is the reason we shouldnt do it, ?

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Waiting for the study...

Sarc, GC,

Let's see it happen...The oil companies are going to turn around and decrease the price of oil for you to consume?

Consumer says, "Hey Mr. Crack Dealer, you keep raising the price. I can't afford it. I'll help you make more so you can sell it to me for less! Okay?"

Mr. Crack Dealer says,"Sure, I will. Let's use your house."

Years go by...Consumer says,"Hey, Mr. Crack Dealer, you never lowered your prices!"

Mr. Crack Dealer says,"I'm a business not a charity and this is a free market! Want some more crack?"

Consumer says,"Dang, yeah, How much?"

Simple Econ101...Drill away!

Syrius

 

What does your crack dealer

What does your crack dealer say when you tell him you can get cheaper crack from somebody else?

You realy shouldnt be doing crack, it makes you stupid !!

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Stupid?

GC,

Now, now...I'm sure you could tell me with your intelligence what most crack dealers would do if you were to say, "Oh yeah, I'm going to buy it elsewhere...cheaper, too" You do know they have muscle behind them, enough to hurt you. Your fate is in their hands, correct? The fix, think of the fix. You will pay now or later.

Enlighten me with your vast knowledge of the free market when demand out paces supply, prices continue to rise, the consolidated suppliers decide to be more amicable to their consumers? Their mission is to decrease their profits? Warning, warning, this does not compute, this does not compute!

Don't you need more refineries near the pipelines? Which community will you destroy? Communities are where the refinery workers live...hmmmm....we could say it was for national security.

Syrius

Syrius

 

 

Syriusly?

 Demand only out paces supply when supply is being stifled by crack users like yourself and your buds in DC. BTW crackhead, some of us do not have an option of mass transit. Also crackhead last time I was in the Gulf, I didn't notice any communities.

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

No, the oil companies won't do that deliberately

But a free market where they'd have more supplies & supply options would, by definition, decrease prices WITHOUT the oil companies' help. All congresscritters need do is get out of the way, just like the communists already did. And unfortunately for any governments whose intel agencies tend to secretly smuggle the stuff, coke acts exactly the same way in the face of supply increases, whether or not the news media or legal systems are able to deal with the scandal honestly (and because it was a bipartisan scandal, they weren't).
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Syrius you seem to forget

Syrius you seem to forget teh supply in teh 80's of cocaine was plentyful and prices dropped, in fact plummeted.  The idea is not to use teh house but to increase the supply.  But, you don't really want to debate you want to obfusicate.  Sniff, sniff, I smell troll ... anyone here smell it?

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Diamonds are a girl's best friend!

Dan buddy,

Trolling? This discussion has turned to people calling me a troll, stupid and anything else they can think of. My point has been on Pelosi finding a solution, right or wrong, it's her leadership in gaining a better grasp of the problem and finding a working solution in the process. 6 years of GOP rule and all of a sudden you're playing the blame game. Get out of the way, you are part of the problem. The elections are coming, be prepared to get the message out, the cost of campaigning is extremely high. It's not as if anyone in the current GOP would ever steal congressional campaign funds away from the GOP congressman who need the money the most.

Got any solutions besides unpredictable long term fixes? Anything? Nothing, I thought so...

Syrius

You can't peddle any "solution"

Until you define "gouging." Gimme an actual percentage number that defines a non "gouging" acceptable profit margin in a high risk industry like oil, or else slink...
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

How much are paying for gas? Hmmm...?

Sarc,

Cut the taxes on each gallon? Reduction of overall price of gas would be? You like driving on those asphalt roads with "rubber" tires on your way to the grocery store? Those taxes your paying at the pump go to...schools?...welfare?...transportation infrastructure? You got to pay to play, my friend. You have choices. No one is making you drive your car.

Syrius

 

I pay about $4 a gallon, just like everyone else

And, just like everyone else I've ever-asked about "gouging," you are NOT answering my question. Pelosi can't. O'Reilly can't. And now you can't answer it, either.

For the third time: How much profit-margin, in a risky business, is "gouging"? Until you answer the question with a numerical value, I'll continue to say you have 0 "solution." Goose-egg.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Price gouging is relative to the person.

Sarc,

You know as well as I, it's how you would define fair pricing. If you bought a product which you think the price is unfair and I don't, who would you believe. Who determines the price in a free market? It's language and how you construct the framework to the statement allows for the person to set a standard. If the majority of the consumers feel as if they are paying higher than normal, are you going to persuade them into believing they aren't paying higher prices? If I were to piss on your back and call it rain would you believe me if my persuasiveness trumped all other arguments? You've got to admit, I hope, the oil companies are having a hell of a time persuading the general public they are having a hard time keeping down their profits. US citizens are represented by the people they elect to Congress. If US citizens want answers about the profits of the oil companies, they ask their representatives to ask the questions. Elections have consequences. Pelosi is asking the questions and the oil companies are trying to answer them. Did you catch the question to one of the execs about how to lower prices? He answered he had no idea. It was brought to the attention of many how much the oil exec made in one year (37mil) and then the question was "to answer the question is above your pay grade?" LOL!!! 

Syrius 

"Did you catch the question

"Did you catch the question to one of the execs about how to lower prices? He answered he had no idea."

What was Nancy's suggestion to the execuetive?  WHAT'S HER PLAN? 

 

 

A little late to the show...

mofo,

Read above so you can catch up.

Syrius

 

No number

No plan. What's "gouging" numerically, for an executive asking himself whether he should risk his shareholders' money on what could be a "dry hole" anyway? How can he know without reading Nancy Pelosi's mind what sort of profit he's allowed to make assuming the hole's not dry?? And lamely saying "it's relative" ain't gonna hack it for this guy (or his shareholders, or me) as an answer. Numbers aren't "relative" in the real world, they're specific. These overpaid executives might get less money if political rules were easier to understand.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

You've given me a lot of long winded BS

But no number. I don't care about "feelings" except my own (I think I pay too much for just about everything, ok, but I still have to pay no matter how I feel!). I need a specific number for what's a "fair" profit margin and another number for what's "gouging" in a very risky business, or Nancy has no "solution." I don't have that number yet. Less feelings. More numbers. Less feelings-influenced "standards." More hard and fast rules. Read the Walter Williams column I keep linking here.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

What number would you attach to the color gray???

Sarc,

There is no number to your question. It's not black and white. The fair market price of a barrel of oil is...going to be determined differently by the consumer, the supplier, the retailer...etc. The trading price will set the price, whether those involved believe it is fair or not does have some bearing on the definition of which you're trying to aquire from me. I'm able to write off some of my expenses, so the sting is shifted onto the taxpayer who allows for me to take advantage of the tax system. To everyone out there, thank you by the way. So, what number do you affix to the color of gray when it's not black and white?

Syrius

 

See you for now... I'm on

See you for now...

I'm on Vaca...peace!

Syrius

"Ho, Haha, Guard, Turn,

"Ho, Haha, Guard, Turn, Parry, Dodge, Spin, Ha, Thrust!"

[edit]  Have a good vaca, Syrius. (seriously)

You forgot one...

"RETREAT!!!"

Just like O'Reilly did. Someday, if I keep this up, people won't use the term "gouging" so freely, because they'll know they have to come up with either a number (never happens) or an admission that no number exists (like pulling teeth, but I finally get the desired result!). Anyway, I'm marking this vacation as a victory.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Yeah sarc, I used to read

Yeah sarc,

I used to read O'Reilly's show comments on the web each following morning.  When he started with the 'gouging' shtick I started losing interest.

Funny that everytime Congress announces an inverstigation into gouging nothing ever comes of it.

None. But Nancy's not legislating about grey

She's legislating about "gouging." That implies a number, and you're slowly admitting the obvious just like O'Reilly did when he was dumb enough to use that media beloved word: None exists.

The law, on whatever day, is and shall-be whatever the Queen of Hearts says it is that day? Go ahead and drill, and we'll decide later, on an admittedly "relative" (your word, not mine...) basis, just what's fair and what might land your ass in jail or get you & your shareholders a hefty fine.

I'm beginning to appreciate this quote more daily: "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." - Frank Zappa. RIP, sir. You'd have made a great politician like you were a great musician, except for one thing. You told the truth too much.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

()

Figures, you'd be a FZ fan too.  

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

You're kidding, right?

"'Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.'"

And, besides ethanol (which isn't quite the golden goose it was sold as), which of these wonderful parts of the plan, I mean The Plan, have the Dems passed, as the majority party?

And who would believe that taking money from big oil would get them to lower prices? Find one economist who can explain that!

UHOH!!

I posted about this also this morning and I am eagerly waiting for the moonbat fallout.

Giving the Taliban US tax money just for being authoritarians

Didn't do much to "dislodge" them, either.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Bush lied, people died.

Bush lied, people died. That's their story and they're stickin' to it!!


True lies

So who are the true liers in this country? A partial list:

  1. Murtha - Our Marines are killers

  2. Reid - The war is lost

  3. Clinton (H) - Gen Petraeus is a liar

  4. Obama - We should never have gone to war in Iraq

  5. Obermann - Bush is the worst ever

  6. Pelosi - By voting against the GI bill, Republicans refused to support our veterans when they come home

  7. Edwards - The American people want us to cut all war funds

And what's the common denominator? They're all Democrats - in Congress or the MSM. Notice a trend, here?

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

Even though that story is

Even though that story is basically good, it's premise is still wrong.  It's saying that Bush relied on bad intelligence.  (Meanwhile Frontilin -PBS, runs a Bush Lied program over the weekend)

The fact is 3 presidents in a row had to deal with Hussein.  He was threatening the world with WMD (even though he exaggerated his own strength), he was harboring terrorists and funding them.

Bush did the world a favor and instead of ripping him they should be kissing his gluteus maximus.

It sure has cost a lot.

mattm,

The expense of so much blood & treasure for what?

Remember-

From Jan.1999 to Sept 2000, Oil had tripled in price from $10/barrel to a whopping $30/barrel!!!

The Cost of Containment of Saddam after the first Gulf War was...how much per year? Here's something to chew on...

I would enjoy entertaining your thoughts after your reading of the following...

"It may be that, if an American president really wants
to go to war, as did Bush, and if he is willing to exaggerate the
threat of terrorism, then it will happen. But the effect of these early
efforts in dispassionate economic analysis means that never again can
war begin with so flimsy an accounting of the expected cost of
achieving its objectives as what Larry Lindsey told an Iraqi
newspaper. The words with which Nordhaus closed his 2002 discussion of
the economic consequences of a war with Iraq suggest just how
imaginative a before-the-fact analysis must be in the future if it is
to be persuasive.

“The cost of a war may turn out to be low, but the cost of a
successful peace looks very steep. If American taxpayers decline to pay
the bills for ensuring the long-term health of Iraq, America would
leave behind mountains of rubble and mobs of angry people. As the world
learned from the Carthaginian peace that settled World War I, the cost
of a botched peace may be even higher than the price of a bloody war.” -from david warsh

here's the link for further info and insight...

http://www.economicp...

Are you sure Saddam was harboring Al Qaeda before Dubya took office? The information shows Al Qaeda showing up after we showed up. Just trying to get the facts straight from a historical POV.

As for the current security situation of our nation, our allies and the world, has it improved, remained steady or degraded over time?

Syrius

 

The greatest part of

The greatest part of proven worldwide petroleum reserves lie right here in North America.  That's right!  NOT in the Middle East!  So how has any policy in the Iraq or anywhere else in the ME had anything to do with soaring petroleum prices?

Your argument to the contrary is illogical.  If the Dems were at all honest, which they are demonstrably not,  they would admit their 'no-drilling' policies here at home have had a significant, deleterious effect on oil prices.   

For what? To save your

For what?

To save your sorry rear end from the terrorists... (no 9/11s since 9/11) 

In 1992 Al Gore chided GHWB for ignoring Saddam Hussein's links to terrorist organizations.

It could be said that the particular course of action taken by Bush was the wrong one, or was handled badly, but the fact is the Jihadist were at war with us long before we went to war against them.  The WTC was attacked in 1993.  What did BJ do?  He trie to approach the situation as a criminal justice issue rather than as an act of war...he then stripped down the military and the intelligence community... 9/11 was the result.

More could be said, but I gotta go....besides you wouldn't listen anyway.

History Lesson

"Are you sure Saddam was harboring Al Qaeda before Dubya took office? The information shows Al Qaeda showing up after we showed up. Just trying to get the facts straight from a historical POV."

That depends on where you get your "information" from.

The Clinton Justice Department claimed a relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam in 1998. And several AQ members had been in Iraq well before the war started.

And captured Iraqi documents also show a connection.

But see, the Left's greatest nightmare is that there was such a connection, because it would make Bush appear to be a genius. They would rather be waterboared than admit such a possibility. Their only greater nightmare would be some sort of connection between Iraq and 9/11. If that ever happened, they would all be jumping out of high rise windows.

 They would rather be

 They would rather be waterboared than admit such a possibility.

Witch explains why they want to ban waterboarding

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

It's nice for someone in the media to accurately represent

what the report said. Unfortunately most of the media spin it like this AP article which starts out

"WASHINGTON - A new Senate report gives a fresh shot of adrenaline to the election-year debate over the Iraq war. President Bush and his top officials deliberately misrepresented secret intelligence to make the case to invade Iraq, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee."

Then continues to slam Bush by false implications and inuendo. It's not until about the 6th paragraph that you get this statement

"The Senate report, however, found that intelligence supported most of
the administration's statements about Iraq before the war. But
officials often did not mention the level of dissension or uncertainty
in the intelligence agencies about the information they were presenting
."

Even that statement makes it seem as if mentioning the "level of dissension or uncertainty" Was something the Bush administration was obligated to do but didn't but excused all the Democrats who voted for the war for doing the same thing and all of the other Countries at the U.N. who's intelligence bore out the same thing. No one credible at the U.N. questioned or was concerned about "dissenters" to their intelligence either. It wasn't just the U.S. who didn't mention dissenting opinions it was France, GB, Germany and tons of other allies not to mention non allied countries like China and Russia.

I doubt there is any intelligence that's ever been without dissenting opinions. But this sure is the kind of spin that the Media and the sheepish public eat up without critical examination.

Morning Dee. If Bush lied,

Morning Dee. If Bush lied, so did these people

Hi MB - that is a great summary

and it doesn't even begin to mention all the people who didn't mention the dissension. I don't know if there is one member who did. None of the people who were against the war used the "dissenting opinions" as their reason. Why? Because even they didn't find the "dissenting opinions" credible enough to override the overwhelming majority opinion of U.S. and every other World intelligence agency.

That the Dems and their allies in the Press have been able to change this debate into this is absurd. SOME of the intelligence was wrong but the DEMs who disagreed with the war disagreed assuming it was correct. Their position was never that we could be wrong about whether he had WMD's etc... Their position was that we could convince him to get rid of them with further inspections.

Their position was never

Their position was never that we could be
wrong about whether he had WMD's etc... Their position was that we
could convince him to get rid of them with further inspections.

That's right, Dee...they agreed that he had them; they just wanted to continue useless sanctions. And it was amazing that after about 10 years of trying, they were saying we shouldn't "rush to war."

Rhetoric morphing into indictments

The moment I encounter anyone who says that Bush lied, it immediately marks them as unserious people. You have every right to complain that Bush is president, and like the captain of the ship, he has to bear the responsibility for any mistake. You can argue that being the executive means that sometimes you have to take a guess, and unfair as it is, you have to take the fall if the guess is wrong. I can respect those arguments. But the moment you argue that Bush concocted the threat from Saddam, that’s the moment you prove yourself to be a waste of time.

Rockefeller is a powerful senator, and because of his position, he has to be taken seriously. But he’s shown himself to be a loose cannon. He tried to demean McCain’s military service by accusing McCain of being a fighter pilot! What an immoral job that is (to Rockefeller)! Now he’s waving a report in front of the camera, McCarthy-like, claiming to have proof … even though the paper he’s waving is empty.

Eight years of this?

Gore Would Have Appeased!

gore would nto have gone to war.  He would like all good Liberals have balmed Amerika and then sought to appease the Taliban!

His acions would have doomed our great country to ridicule and future attacks from iran and other rouge nations.

Let's learn from the past.  Clinton did nothing and emboldened Al Quida leading to their attack on 9/11.  Gore if in office on that day would still be looking to balme us for the attack and would have given up the middle east to the islamofacists in the name of Peace!

Gore Lost, Freedom Lived!

But remember AGW

President non-elect Algore (thank the Lord)  would have blamed America just as you said and then would have said that global warming, caused mainly by America, forced Al-Qeda and the Taliban to attack us because the increased temperatures and CO2 in the region made them go crazy.

Other then that, they're normally very charming people. :-)

If Al had revealed in 2000

If Al had revealed in 2000 what a genius he was, people might have voted for him.  Think about it.  He quietly sets up a company to trade on AGW and in green companies in 2004 and then goes out and generates the hysteria about AGW and the need to be green in 2006.  Then he sits back and counts his money as it starts to roll in.  Now he's upping the ante with both Obama amd McCain supporting cap and trade on carbon credits and him buying into a company that trades this out-of-whole-cloth commodity.  He is getting credit for being green by offsetting his jet-set lifestyle and polluting home life by moving money from his left pocket to his right and calling it "bullish" on the environment. 

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."  - Sir Winston Churchill

I work with a woman who

I work with a woman who thinks that Pres. Bush should be tried for war crimes, she says he murdered all the soliders who have died in Iraq. It should be mentioned that she thinks Obama is the only one who can save America. I try to talk to her rationally, but she just walks away in a huff. This is the kind of thinking that we are up against...it is just crazy.

It doesn’t matter what is

It doesn’t matter what is written regarding the case for the Iraq war. The lunatic left hates Bush and will always believe ‘Bush Lied’. Want proof? Read the comments that have been posted on the Washington Post web site. Example: “Bush will go down in infamy, and with any luck, receive a similar fate as his spiritual brethren at Nuremberg.”

It’s very sad. When you are teeming with hate, facts don’t matter.

 

"You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts"

BUSH LIED!

Ok, he might as well admit it! The war was all about oil. It's now time to call in his markers; He should tell the new government of IRAQ, that the USA wants ALL of their oil. And by the way the price will be dictated by the USA. At last the MSM will be able to say "I told you so." It sure would make a great picture with W, Cheney and Mccain making this a joint announcement on CNN!

Can I read your emails, Fred?

What I would give to read the emails pouring into Mr. Hiatt's inbox right now. They probably make the reactions to the Mohammad cartoons look mind in comparison.

BREAKING: Bush didn't lie us into war. Riots and car burnings expected in the north east and south west. Women and children hardest hit.

Speaking of our buddy Murtha

Here's an article about an FBI investigation of some Air Force contracts to a small company in Johnstown, PA.  While the article didn't specify who represents Johnstown in Congress, does anyone want to take a guess?  And I wonder how much this company owner's have contributed to that certain Congressman's campaigns?

Government Probes at Least 7 Defense Contracts for Charities

The federal investigation of contracting arrangements between the Pentagon and tax-exempt defense firms in Pennsylvania includes multiple deals that go as far back as 2002 and involve more money than was previously known, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post.

The FBI and the Pentagon's Defense Criminal Investigative Service issued subpoenas two months ago seeking information about a small intelligence firm called Commonwealth Research Institute, or CRI, and its parent company, Concurrent Technologies. Both firms are registered nonprofit charities based in Johnstown, Pa.

Concurrent was established two decades ago and has almost $250 million a year in revenue. Most of its research, program management and other work is for the Pentagon. It also has received more than $226 million in congressionally directed funding known as earmarks in recent years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/06/AR2008060603810.html

We can only hope that...

We can only hope that our honorable Marines can extract some or most of Murth's treasure in defamation suits.

Of course this whole "Bush

Of course this whole "Bush lied, people died" argument is itself, ironically, a lie. That it has gone unchallenged should tell you all you need to know about how corrupt and biased the media is in this country. Not only do they not challenge it for the most part, they enable it. Just look at how they covered this "report" by Rockefeller. In the coverage I've seen, they deliberately give people the impression that this report is proof of Bush wrongdoing rather than telling them the truth about it being just another partisan hit piece by Democrats who, again ironically, are likely lying themselves.

Say the words - the U.S. will drill...

the price of gas will go down...way down. 

 

 

Doesn't matter....

Doesn't matter, Mr. Graham, at least not to those who feel their way to their truth. They hate Bush and nothing else matters.

Hypocracy doesn't matter to them, either, for the ones with whom I am familiar are the same ones with the "Hate is not a family value" on their bumper sticker.

At one time I tried to reason with them and discover their meanings. I gave up the idea as the only possible outcome of the effort was my own insanity. 

Novice

Drilling only part of the solution

If I understand the problem with the price of gasoline, then drilling for more crude oil is only part of the solution. Drilling for more crude will increase the supply...of crude. However, my car doesn't run on crude straight from the pipeline (does yours?). It runs on GASOLINE. So, in order to make gasoline, you need a refinery. I tried to do a little digging to find the last refinery built in this country, and the only quote I can find is one stating that the last refinery constructed in this country was built in 1976. So 30 years of constant supply, but slowing increasing demand has finally caught us. That isn't a problem when you are only using 70% of the supply of available gasoline, but when you approach 95% of that supply...people tend to panic..and speculation ensues.

If you want to drill for more oil, go ahead. But we still have to change that oil into gasoline. So, build a new refinery or two, then see what the price of gasoline does. Flooding the market with crude should lower the price (probably not significantly) of gasoline in the short term (crude is the material from which gasoline is made...so lower material costs should become lower selling price, if it follows the model of capitalism), however, if you want to have a dramatic effect on the price of gasoline...either make more or demand less (or both).

Things that don't work to lower the price of gasoline in the short term.....tax increases, MPG standard improvements, and shutting down SUV factories. Those are more long term solutions, however, you are not going to replace all of the SUV's and "Land Yachts" with small, 4 cylinder compact automobiles anytime soon. That cycle takes time to complete.