AP's Laurie Kellman reported an entire story Wednesday night on "Abortion-rights lawmakers to receive communion," but nowhere in the story was an American quoted in opposition to granting communion to pro-abortion politicians. The angle for the story was that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others planned to receive communion at the Papal Mass in D.C., when Pope Benedict has been supportive of denying the sacrament to abortion supporters. This paragraph stuck out:
Benedict's stance on abortion and Communion has been painful for elected officials who inhabit the troubled zone where Catholicism and their political beliefs intersect.
It would be just as true to state "Pelosi's stance on abortion and Communion has been painful for church officials," but that's not the ideological flow coming out of AP. Instead, Kellman quoted John Kerry plugging the opportunity of the papal trip to foster discussion on "poverty, disease, and despair," which in his mind probably doesn't include despair over pro-abortion politicians ever considering whether their position needs to better reflect their chosen faith.
Kellman also quoted pro-abortion Rep. Jose Serrano (D-NY), as well as the 2004 letter from 48 pro-abort lawmakers threatening the Church not to mess up their impact on politics by insisting on a single unimportant issue:
"If Catholic legislators are scorned and held out for ridicule by Church leaders on the basis of a single issue, the Church will lose strong advocates on a wide range of issues that relate to the core of important Catholic social teaching," they wrote. "Moreover, criticism of us on a matter that is essentially one of personal morality will deter other Catholics from entering politics, and in the long run the Church will suffer."
Kellman could have quoted a 2004 pastoral letter from Michael Sheridan, the Bishop of Colorado Springs, who expressed the view of full-throated bishops that year, to liberal media hoots and hollers:
Any Catholic politicians who advocate for abortion, for illicit stem cell research or for any form of euthanasia ipso facto place themselves outside full communion with the Church and so jeopardize their salvation. Any Catholics who vote for candidates who stand for abortion, illicit stem cell research or euthanasia suffer the same fateful consequences. It is for this reason that these Catholics, whether candidates for office or those who would vote for them, may not receive Holy Communion until they have recanted their positions and been reconciled with God and the Church in the Sacrament of Penance.
It would have been nice for Kellman to find someone, now or then, to present this side of the argument in her story.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Well Pope Benedict needs to
April 17, 2008 - 15:54 ET by motherbeltWell Pope Benedict needs to just make a speech immediately and grant them a dispensation so that they can receive Communion without changing their beliefs!
<sarc off>
How dare the Catholic Church cause them discomfort!!
Oh, and you bunch of Congresspersons who sent a letter complaining that the Church is engaging in "criticism of us on a matter that is essentially one of personal morality"....didn't you get the memo?
The Church is IN the "personal morality" business!!
What do these people think, it's a social club?
ROFL!!
What a bunch of self-absorbed buffoons!
.
The Bible speaks
April 17, 2008 - 16:12 ET by nkviking75I'm not Catholic so I won't attempt to speak for Catholicism, but I do know that the Apostle Paul (or St. Paul, if you wish) wrote this in First Corinthians Chapter 11 starting at verse 27:
27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
Scripture is pretty clear that an unrepentant sinner ought not to partake of communion.
I agree with refusing to give communion to lawmakers who advocate abortion.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
That's the Word
April 17, 2008 - 16:16 ET by Tim GrahamThat is precisely where several Bishops went in Scripture to explain why pro-abortion politicians should not be given the Eucharist -- out of mercy.
nkviking75
April 17, 2008 - 16:32 ET by DelsaYou do not have to be a Catholic to understand this simple argument.
All you need is the ability to think and use common sense. With your deductive reasoning skill you could be a Catholic.
Or at least a good Catholic.
Keeping my place
April 17, 2008 - 16:37 ET by nkviking75I agree with that, Delsa. I just didn't feel it was my place to speak for Catholics, even though I was pretty sure that Scripture was the basis for the argument that politicians like Kerry and Pelosi should not receive Communion.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
I agree they should not be
April 17, 2008 - 18:19 ET by mjgI agree they should not be allowed to partake in Communion, when they support abortion.
They say they are paracticing Catholics
April 17, 2008 - 16:33 ET by DelsaWhat a joke.
A practicing Catholic DOES NOT BELIEVE WOMEN OR ANYONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL BABIES aka LIFE!
If you are Catholic you have to abide by the teachings of the Church. Period!
American Catholic leaders, not all, and by extension their flock, have turned into some other denomination.
Frankly when Vatican II let Latin slide, they lost me. I took Latin as a second language and loved Sunday sermons prior to gitars and trying to be hip.
GOD grant me...
There is a small catholic church where I live still celebrating the mass in Latin. And I thank GOD for that.
Personally, I hope the Holy Father reads our priests the riot act.
These so called Catholics should be ashamed of themselves for walking all over the sacrament of Communion. Never mind them disrespecting the POPE.
Delsa: There is a small
April 17, 2008 - 16:36 ET by tracheostomyDelsa: There is a small catholic church where I live still celebrating the mass in Latin. And I thank GOD for that.
Is this a Tridentine order you're referring to? They don't recognize the current pope.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
To be honest
April 17, 2008 - 17:50 ET by DelsaI am not sure BUT I do not know their Order. At the very least they still cherish the Tridentine Mass/Masses.
The mass is the Traditional Tridentine Mass which is in Latin and I love it. There are a lot of young people who are looking for a sacredness only the mystery mystery of the Latin Mass can bring.
I am sure Vatican II is not recognized so far as the Mass goes. 1969 I think. Actually there is another church, St. David, with Tridentine Mass given at 1 PM Sundays.
How they feel about this POPE is a mystery as is the order they belong to. I am going to check.
However, when I attend, missal is no politics. I can follow along in my Missal which has been in my possession since I was 12.
Many churches are getting back to the Latin Mass and having success.
Anyway, I love it.
Delsa: How they feel
April 17, 2008 - 17:59 ET by tracheostomyDelsa: How they feel about this POPE is a mystery as is the order they belong to. I am going to check.
That's all I ask from anyone. Go in peace. You are both a credit to the board and a breath of fresh air.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
How they feel
April 17, 2008 - 18:04 ET by DelsaThank you.
The Pope has said that there
April 17, 2008 - 18:21 ET by mjgThe Pope has said that there is a plce for the Latin Mass. I thought I heard that he is bringing it back thru Moto-Propio.
mjg: You are correct re:
April 17, 2008 - 18:47 ET by QueenMummjg: You are correct re: the return of the Latin Mass.
trach: As regards recognition of the current pope: I believe it a matter of being in defiance prior to the recent changes as far as the Latin Mass is concerned.
Clerics who are in defiance of RCC teachings and the authority of the Pope can no longer be considered part of the RCC and are essentially heretics.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
QM: As regards
April 17, 2008 - 18:50 ET by tracheostomyQM: As regards recognition of the current pope: I believe it a matter of being in defiance prior to the recent changes as far as the Latin Mass is concerned. I'm not sure how this relates to recognition of the Holy Father.
Found it!
QM: Clerics who are in defiance of RCC teachings and the authority of the Pope can no longer be considered part of the RCC and are essentially heretics.
Then I'll ask this once again. Who has the final say on this, and where is that final authorization given?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
The RCC
April 17, 2008 - 19:25 ET by DelsaI see many churches here in Florida going back to at least one Latin Mass on Sunday.
Are we saying The Latin Mass is a violation? I do not think it is but I could be wrong.
If we are looking for the deffinitrion of heretics, we have to look to the Holy See.
I think we have to go back to get it right.
Roots are a good thing.
Delsa: If we are looking
April 17, 2008 - 19:37 ET by tracheostomyDelsa: If we are looking for the deffinitrion of heretics, we have to look to the Holy See.
Alone?
Delsa: I think we have to go back to get it right.
How far back?
Delsa: Roots are a good thing.
I'd agree with this, but I'm sure we would both have a very different interpretation of the word "roots" here in this case, wouldn't we?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Maybe not -
April 17, 2008 - 20:25 ET by DelsaBack to me means mystery, reverence, respect for cataechism, and the teachings of GOD.
My faith does not reside under a roof. I was brought up a Catholic believing in GOD, went away form the church, and after my my sons death, found my faith again only stronger.
All faith is personal. But how we live is not. I hear people say, "I'm a practicing ..." and then proceed to disrespect the Church they "practice" the teachings of.
Back to basics. Mystery or faith, the majesty of GOD, compassion for others, and the wonder of HIS love are the Basics I refer to.
And oh yea, the Mass in Latin.
See. Simple.
Hi Delsa... Just wanted
April 17, 2008 - 20:58 ET by bigtimerHi Delsa...
Just wanted to say my heart is with you regarding your loss.
I've been there too.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Bigtimer
April 17, 2008 - 21:02 ET by DelsaDid you say you lost two sons?
Delsa: Back to me means
April 17, 2008 - 21:15 ET by tracheostomyDelsa: Back to me means mystery, reverence, respect for cataechism, and the teachings of GOD.
Two I agree with and two I do not.
- Re: Mystery. Why would you prefer to worship that which you do not know? Why ponder a mystery if a solution is not really given by God to begin with?
- Why do our catechisms have to be so different? I think it comes from a disagreement on divine revelation (i.e. the teachings of GOD). We can't both be right.
Delsa: My faith does not reside under a roof. I was brought up a Catholic believing in GOD, went away form the church, and after my my sons death, found my faith again only stronger.
And what truth were you led to through this tragedy? Faith in. . .what? Something you didn't have much faith in before?
Delsa: All faith is personal.
I disagree to an extent. I'm not quite sure we agree with the definition of faith if you wish to make a mystery out of it.
Delsa: But how we live is not. I hear people say, "I'm a practicing ..." and then proceed to disrespect the Church they "practice" the teachings of.
What's the standard then? Faith, or works?
Delsa: Back to basics. Mystery or faith, the majesty of GOD, compassion for others, and the wonder of HIS love are the Basics I refer to.
Faith is not a mystery. Faith is not mysticism.
Delsa: And oh yea, the Mass in Latin. See. Simple.
Would you be willing to sacrifice the knowledge you have now in English for a return to the Latin Mass? What about the next generation that would be raised exclusively within a Latin Mass?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Well lets see
April 17, 2008 - 21:51 ET by DelsaFaith and works are the same. If you have faith you should naturally do good works.
Mystery is not mysticism and neither is faith. People who follow the mass in Latin using a missal they tend to pay attention. They also learn and their minds tend not wonder. At least that is my experience.
As for the next gereration having to be raised with the Mass said in Latin? Oh my goodness how terrible?
Being like everyone else is not making the experience better. Sometimes, being different is the important thing.
Faith is not the mystery. But if we have to guess if we are doing the right things, we may try harder to be a better person and the mystery will be revealed when we see GOD.
I was lead through tragedy back to my faith in GOD. I did not think about him much. Tragedy brought me closer to GOD. For HE is the LIGHT and the WAY!
Maybe I answered your questions. Not in order. I owe that to dyslexia.
Delsa: Perhaps this article
April 17, 2008 - 20:48 ET by QueenMumDelsa: Perhaps this article will help.
It seems that the Latin Mass was never banned by the Church, but that permission was necessary from a bishop upon request of a congregation or group of the faithful for such accomodation.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Thank you QueenMum
April 17, 2008 - 21:00 ET by DelsaI think the Church here in America simply thought saying Mass in English would bring more people into the church.
Sometime change for expediency sake is not a good idea. I really had to draw the line at giitars.
Something very un .... something.?
Thank you.
"I think the Church here in
April 17, 2008 - 22:21 ET by QueenMum"I think the Church here in America simply thought saying Mass in English would bring more people into the church."
Not exactly, Delsa. It was the decision of Rome that the Mass be said in the local language. The move away from the Latin was not one exclusive to the U.S. And I don't see the matter of bringing more people into the Church as one of mere expediency. It was the command of Jesus himself. And I think that, as Catholic education became more and more dependent on the laity in lieu of the nuns and priests who taught Catholic school in my day, it became more difficult for young Catholics to learn about and appreciate the Latin Mass. In Catholic school, we were not just taught to "read along" in our missals. We learned what the Latin words meant. Although there has been a small resurgence of Latin being taught in high schools and colleges, there's no longer much interest in the subject outside such fields as law and medicine.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
According to the Catholic
April 18, 2008 - 10:51 ET by mjgAccording to the Catholic Channel the mass in latin is as you said QueenMum, it was never banned. The way to bring it back is called the Moto Propio.
Delsa, I think the Latin
April 17, 2008 - 21:20 ET by motherbeltDelsa, I think permitting the Latin Mass again is sort of a nod to reminiscence.
I was skeptical, as others were, when the change to English took place. Now I wonder how we managed for so many years, without knowing what the priest was saying, except for the readings. Most of us had the St. Joseph Missal with everything in English. And frankly, I wonder why anyone would want to go back to those days.
But I guess for a lot of people, the Latin Mass is a comfort. And that's OK.
mother
April 17, 2008 - 23:28 ET by ncstevemYou may be interested to know that there is a major interest/resurgence in the Latin Mass going on in the Church now.
I find that the Vatican II crowd (those Catholics over 50) whether they be priests or laymen have a higher degree of indifference or outright hostility to the return to tradition in the Church. It is the 40 and under Catholics who are asking for the Latin Mass. There have been numerous religious communities founded in the last 20 years that only celebrate the traditional Mass and most of them have more vocations than they can handle.
So what's going to happen over the next 20 years is the Vatican II crowd will die out and the traditional Latin Mass will likely become the norm in the Church again.
trach: From the Catholic
April 17, 2008 - 19:35 ET by QueenMumtrach: From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
"The present-day -->legislation--> against heresy has lost nothing of its ancient severity; but the -->penalties--> on heretics are now only of the -->spiritual--> order; all the -->punishments--> which require the intervention of the secular arm have fallen into abeyance. Even in countries where the cleavage between the spiritual and secular powers does not amount to hostility or complete severance, the death penalty, confiscation of goods, imprisonment, etc., are no longer inflicted on heretics. The -->spiritual--> -->penalties--> are of two kinds: latae and ferendae sententiae. The former are incurred by the mere fact of heresy, no judicial sentence being required; the latter are inflicted after trial by an ecclesiastical court, or by a bishop acting ex informata conscientia, that is, on his own certain knowledge, and dispensing with the usual procedure
The penalties (see -->ECCLESIASTICAL CENSURES-->) latae sententiae are: (1) Excommunication specially reserved to the Roman pontiff, which is incurred by all apostates from the Catholic Faith, by each and all heretics, by whatever name they are -->known--> and to whatever sect they belong, and by all who believe in them ( credentes), receive, favour, or in any way defend them (-->Constitution--> "Apostolicae Sedis", 1869). ...
(2) "-->Excommunication--> specially reserved to the Roman Pontiff incurred by each and all who knowingly read, without authorization from the Apostolic See, books of apostates and heretics in which heresy is defended; likewise readers of books of any author prohibited by name in -->letters Apostolic-->, and all who retain possession of, or print, or in any way defend such books" (Apostolicæ Sedis, 1869)."
I think we need to do some further investigation of the terms, latae and ferendae sententiae in order to come to a conclusive answer. But it seems that, since it is the Pope who "passes sentence", so to speak, one can say that it is the Pope who "has the final say".
As regards the sect referenced in your link, I'd say it is a sect that likely has been excommunicated from the Church. Once a sect has established the sort of self-determination and rejection of the authority of the Pope that this sect has, they can no longer be considered a part of the RCC. And I'd say that all those who follow the teachings of the sect are heretics as well, according to the Church's definition of heresy.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Thanks QM. . .
April 17, 2008 - 19:39 ET by tracheostomy*bookmarked for further reference*
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Nancy Botox says she goes
April 17, 2008 - 16:39 ET by terrigNancy Botox says she goes to Mass every week. I am not able to receive communion because my husband had been previously married. However, I still go to Mass every Sunday. I sit in the pew because I know I shouldn't go to communion. All the liberal catholics have no qualms about going to communion because they have no values anyway.
I wish the Pope would read them the riot act. I would love to see a priest tell them they won't be receiving communion on his watch.
→ terrig
April 17, 2008 - 18:23 ET by Cool ArrowI'm confused as to how your life choice isn't considered "liberal" as well.
♣ a seal
Well I've been unable to be
April 17, 2008 - 22:51 ET by terrigWell I've been unable to be here for a time because of various things but I don't consider what I do liberal by staying in the pew. I have values maybe you don't and neither does botox nancy. I guess you're a new troll that's come aboard since I've been away.
Hey terrig.... Long time
April 17, 2008 - 22:59 ET by bigtimerHey terrig....
Long time no see...great to see you.
You'll get to know Cool, he isn't a troll though....just a little prob when it comes to the Catholic Church.
Now...as to Nancy...botox is right and when will she ever go away...she wouldn't know how to spell values...let alone live them.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hi Bigtimer, I had to take
April 17, 2008 - 23:03 ET by terrigHi Bigtimer, I had to take a break because the trolls were making my hair grey :) but also we moved 3 times since Sept. and it seemed like everytime I would go to get on the kids would start crying or the husband would need the computer as we had our stuff in storage until this past two weeks and had one computer. That curtailed me but I will be back more often.
How have you been? Hope you're doing well.
terri... Well you've been
April 17, 2008 - 23:08 ET by bigtimerterri...
Well you've been a busy little bee moving around and all....hope you are settled now, at least you have the computer for a few....weren't you in Hawaii last I remembered and your husband was just coming home and such.
I could have you mixed up with another...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Yes, we were in Hawaii and
April 17, 2008 - 23:11 ET by terrigYes, we were in Hawaii and then we moved to GA, to KS and then to Fort Belvoir and we just bought a house here in PWC. I'm glad to be able to be back. Have a great night.
Hey there TerriG
April 17, 2008 - 23:13 ET by BlondeWow, you've done a lap around the country lately.
Great to have you back here, although I'm sure you'll be totally devastated to know Tumbler is no longer amongst the posters. LOL.
Kansas, huh? Please don't say Fort Riley (and if you do...I have two words for you...Bell Taxi).
Glad you're back.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You too terri. "Never
April 17, 2008 - 23:16 ET by bigtimerYou too terri.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Speaking of painful
April 17, 2008 - 17:31 ET by Prester JohnResolution Welcoming Pope Hits Abortion Snag in Congress Before Passing
A resolution welcoming and honoring Pope Benedict XVI to Washington hit a temporary rough patch on the way to its eventual approval — and the rough patch involved the always-nuclear topic of abortion.
Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., crafted a resolution "Welcoming Pope Benedict XVI to the United States and recognizing the unique insights his moral and spiritual reflections bring to the world stage."
But when the resolution was circulated for approval of all the members, Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., an outspoken "pro-choice" advocate, put on the brakes.
The offending language: "Whereas Pope Benedict XVI has spoken out for the weak and vulnerable, witnessing to the value of each and every human life."
A Boxer aide pointed specifically to the last 10 words of that sentence, saying it points directly to "pro-life" language.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351613,00.html
Every human life has value? Who woulda thunk it?
Certainly not the Democratic Party.
Pain
April 17, 2008 - 17:41 ET by ProudAmerican33"Pain" is what the babies involved go through.
AP's anti-christian bias offends me and hurts all christians
April 17, 2008 - 17:59 ET by c5thenTheir implication that religious values and beliefs need to take a back-seat to political beliefs shows how anti-religious they really are.
As for the politicians and the people who vote for them, they can go through the motions and rituals all they want, but that doesn't save them. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that relys on the true inner belifs of the practitioner and not rituals and methodology to determine one's membership.
Going to church or mass doesn't make one a Christian (Catholic or otherwise). I can stand in a garage all day long, but that doesn't make me an automobile.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
Even more accurate
April 17, 2008 - 19:27 ET by GrannyGrump42>>It would be just as true to state "Pelosi's stance on abortion and Communion has been painful for church officials,"<<
Not nearly as painful as her position on abortion is for fetuses.
What's painful is the saline
April 18, 2008 - 01:23 ET by rbosqueWhat's painful is the saline injections the babies get when their skin is not fully developed. Maybe Pelosi and Kerry need to get that sad fact through their thick skulls.
Pain
April 18, 2008 - 09:45 ET by GWDon't forget about the pain of a baby's brain being sucked through its thin skull.