The April 7 edition of Time includes an article by Richard Lacayo hailed the peace symbol, "50 years old and still working." It was the ready-made icon for the sixties counterculture. But then Lacayo decided to compare it to the Christian cross, and things got ugly:
There were people who didn't like the symbol any better than they liked the movements it represented. They saw it as an inverted broken cross or "the footprint of the American chicken." But it kept spreading through the culture. Like the Christian cross, which has served the purposes of soup kitchens and Crusaders, the Sisters of Mercy and the Ku Klux Klan, it was adaptable. Over time, it evolved from its narrow association with nuclear disarmament into an insignia for countercultures of all kinds. Hippies made it a sort of all-purpose symbol of peacefulness. The environmental group Greenpeace, the militant wing of flower power, adopted it for its eco-defense campaigns.
While the Klan and the burning cross certainly go together -- and the Klan definitely saw itself as righteous Christians -- this is still a bit of free association that burns and singes the vast majority of Christians (including black ones) who loathe the Klan.
But then, in his occasional episodes of rhetorical excess, Lacayo has bumbled the comparisons to Christianity before. At the end of 2004, he promoted Michael Moore's idea that he was like Jesus for making Fahrenheit 911:
“[Michael] Moore...says that his film, too, resonates with Christ’s message. The Passion of the Christ emphasized Christ’s final hours and, for the most part, left out scenes of his ministry. ‘But my film dovetails with the rest of Jesus’ life,’ Moore told Time last week. ‘It connects to his message about questioning those in authority, of being a man of peace, of loving your neighbor.’” — Time’s Richard Lacayo in the magazine’s December 27/January 3 year-end double issue, juxtaposing the left-wing Moore with actor/director Mel Gibson as runners-up for Time’s “Person of the Year” award.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center
Comments Policy
kkk & democrats. I hear that
March 31, 2008 - 18:04 ET by Nortokkk & democrats.
I hear that most clan members were demcrats, but what do we know except the one kkk member in the Senate? Byrd(D-WV). msm take note of the designation.
The KKK was very helpful to
March 31, 2008 - 18:22 ET by RickTaLifeThe KKK was very helpful to the democratic party in the era following the civil war. Along with the assassinations of black civilians, poll-workers, etc, it's not often quoted that they also targeted several Republican party members, due to their involvement in helping blacks to vote against their former slave-masters. The article fails to mention that while the KKK may be a stain on the cross (Uninvited too...take note of that msm), they are a deep stain on the Democratic party history.
Norto: Read "Back to Basics for the Republican Party" by Michael Zak. Plenty of historical information providing the solid connection between the Democratic Party and the KKK.
An ex-kkk member
March 31, 2008 - 18:34 ET by FastEdain't no republican - how come that's not a BIG deal?? - but them who are we asking - the msm(Lsm), has nothing but peace and love for the demolibs.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
The peace symbol to me
March 31, 2008 - 18:17 ET by BlazerThe peace symbol to me represent's the religious symbol of selfishness, personal gratification above anything else, and identifying ones ownself as the Messiah.
Mr. Lacayo definitely hit the nail on the head though when he said "footprint of the American chicken". Allthough I believe actual chicken's are more intelligent, more patriotic, smell and taste better than an American leftist (progressive).
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
ND
March 31, 2008 - 21:52 ET by austinhookThe peace symbol to me represent's the religious symbol of selfishness,
personal gratification above anything else, and identifying ones
ownself as the Messiah.
Your favorite hippie's symbol has nothing to do with, and does not originate from any religious symbol. The "peace" symbol represents the super-imposed ship to ship communication flag positions that represent the letters N and D.
Your favorite hippie's
March 31, 2008 - 23:07 ET by RickTaLifeYour favorite hippie's symbol has nothing to do with, and does not originate from any religious symbol. The "peace" symbol represents the super-imposed ship to ship communication flag positions that represent the letters N and D.
hehe, I don't think that his point was to say it was derived from a religious symbol or that is had anything to do with an actual religion. Pretty sure the meaning behind his post was that it's a symbol of the "Secular Religion" of the left. ;-)
"Pretty sure the meaning
March 31, 2008 - 23:24 ET by Blazer"Pretty sure the meaning behind his post was that it's a symbol of the "Secular Religion" of the left. ;-) "
spot on
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Oh yeah, and BTW...when I
March 31, 2008 - 18:24 ET by RickTaLifeOh yeah, and BTW...when I see the "peace" symbol, the first thing I think of is STD spreading, drug abusing, anti-American hippies and the intellectual decay they've wrought on our country.
Ha!- "the footprint of the
March 31, 2008 - 18:30 ET by muh-oonHa!- "the footprint of the American chicken."- that is funny, I actually never heard that before.
Footprint
March 31, 2008 - 18:40 ET by ScrapironIt's been know as the 'foorprint of the American chicken since the 60's'. The new American Chickens always say support Mercedes, they can't even get their own chicken logo right.
Old, Retired and glad of it.
While the Klan and the
March 31, 2008 - 18:48 ET by balboaWhile the Klan and the burning cross certainly go together -- and the Klan definitely saw itself as righteous Christians -- this is still a bit of free association that burns and singes the vast majority of Christians (including black ones) who loathe the Klan.
So you don't think anyone should mention the fact that the Klan uses crosses when discussing the symbol because it "burns and singes the vast majority of Christians"?
Bal
March 31, 2008 - 18:52 ET by RESTLESS 1The klan burned crosses. We all know that. They did it mostly for intimidation. But, it is intellectually dishonest to try to equate it's use as tolerance from Christians for the klan's views. It's not as though the crosses have any say in the matter.
Like the Christian cross,
March 31, 2008 - 18:58 ET by balboaLike the Christian cross, which has served the purposes of soup kitchens and Crusaders, the Sisters of Mercy and the Ku Klux Klan, it was adaptable.
I don't see anywhere in that sentence where the cross' use is equated as tolerance from Christians for the klan's view.
Then why bring up the
March 31, 2008 - 19:03 ET by RESTLESS 1Then why bring up the comparison in the first place? They could have picked any number of symbols for comparison to the "peace" symbol. But, they pick the Cross and make their little kkk reference and hope it sticks in people's minds. Yes, I believe the msm is that insidious.
Wow. That's...cynical.
March 31, 2008 - 19:11 ET by balboaWow. That's...cynical.
????
March 31, 2008 - 19:55 ET by RESTLESS 1You say that like it's a bad thing.
Btw, I guess it isn't cynical to say we went to war for oil, (I haven't seen the benefit of that yet), that we went to make oil companies richer, that our troops abuse and torture detainees, that the moon landing was faked, etc... I'm not saying you specifically, but how about calling those on your side out?
Official calling out: Those
March 31, 2008 - 19:57 ET by balboaOfficial calling out: Those views are also cynical. Happy, Pappy?
Bal, the cross was used to
March 31, 2008 - 19:02 ET by NortoBal, the cross was used to throw blame the other way and you fell for it, like so many others.
I never read that, but consider it a possibility.
bal, wouldn't it have
March 31, 2008 - 19:12 ET by Blazerbal, wouldn't it have also been helpful to admit that the peace symbol was also used by armed leftist group's here in the States that robbed, shot and blew up thier own countrymen?
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
"Over time, it evolved from
March 31, 2008 - 19:16 ET by balboa"Over time, it evolved from its narrow association with nuclear disarmament into an insignia for countercultures of all kinds."
I agree bal, however why
March 31, 2008 - 19:25 ET by BlazerI agree bal, however why not use the swastika, the confederate flag, or the crescent moon, why does the msm when given the choice, time after time choose to insult Christian's above any other group.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
I'd tell you, but you'd say
March 31, 2008 - 19:27 ET by balboaI'd tell you, but you'd say I was crazy, delusional, being obtuse, etc., so let's just skip ahead to the part where we agree to disagree.
No, let's hear it. I
March 31, 2008 - 19:39 ET by BlazerNo, let's hear it. I promise I wont' say, what you claim I'll say, cause I allready think it anyway. :)
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
(sigh) OK. My feeling is
March 31, 2008 - 19:49 ET by balboa(sigh)
OK. My feeling is that the peace symbol, although it has been used by some who have less than peaceful intentions, does symbolize peace above all, which I would think is a very Christian concept.
Secondly, the cross is probably the most universally recognized symbol, so it's natural to use it.
Third, I don't think they ever intended to take a swipe at Christianity by mentioning the KKK.
Bal
March 31, 2008 - 19:57 ET by RESTLESS 1Now you are just being crazy, delusional, and obtuse. ;>)
I KNEW IT!!!
March 31, 2008 - 19:58 ET by balboaI KNEW IT!!! YEURGHGHGHGHGH!!! HULK SMASH!
Too late to agree to
March 31, 2008 - 20:13 ET by RESTLESS 1Too late to agree to disagree? :)
Lucy and the football
March 31, 2008 - 20:47 ET by needleLOL! This reminds me of the famous “Lucy and the football” gag that occurred every September in the Peanuts comic stip.
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
"OK. My feeling is that the
March 31, 2008 - 20:07 ET by Blazer"OK. My feeling is that the peace symbol, although it has been used by some who have less than peaceful intentions, does symbolize peace above all, which I would think is a very Christian concept."
Then why does the MSM and Hollywood use it mostly disparagingly if it represent's peace above all but slobber all over the peace symbol with out giving it reproach?
"Secondly, the cross is probably the most universally recognized symbol, so it's natural to use it."
There are billion's of Hindu's, Buddhist's and Muslim's who may disagree with you there bal, but your correct, when it comes to the MSM and the left, offending Christians comes natural whether it's intended or not.
"Third, I don't think they ever intended to take a swipe at Christianity by mentioning the KKK."
You may want to ask the Kleagle about that one.
But your right, w-j-a-t-d.
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
"soup kitchens and
March 31, 2008 - 20:14 ET by balboa"soup kitchens and Crusaders, the Sisters of Mercy"
That looks like three positive uses vs. one bad one.
America is a Christian nation.
I don't know what wjatd is.
"I don't know what wjatd
March 31, 2008 - 20:25 ET by Blazer"I don't know what wjatd is."
well just agree to disagree.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Regular visitors to NB
March 31, 2008 - 19:52 ET by FranksamRegular visitors to NB don't need to point out that Balboa is a delusional, obtuse, gadfly lunatic, etc. We know that. Since you think many of us are cynical, Balboa, I'm wondering if you're not a shill to drive the advertising revenue up (no offense Noel, my sarcasm mode went on auto-drive for a second).
Bal, wouldn't you more more comfortable with your own kind? Many of us are trying to be serious here.
I'm sorry, and you are...?
March 31, 2008 - 19:55 ET by balboaI'm sorry, and you are...?
Oh I'm getting' a kick out
March 31, 2008 - 20:06 ET by bigtimerOh I'm getting' a kick out of this...while I'm ROFL!
No offense to either party here either...this is just funny and I just saw it...can't help it.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
No. It Wouldn't Have
March 31, 2008 - 20:20 ET by the curatorFirst, to WHICH armed leftist groups are you refering?
Second... It would have been pointless to make that associations. The TIME author's intent is to correlate the peace symbol's staying power with that of other symbols. The fact that the cross has been associated with some awful hate groups is unfortunate but true. And just because something is unfortunate doesn't mean it should be ignored.
Back to my point... associating the symbol with itself serves no purpose... as the intent of the original article is to provide context by correlating the peace symbol with other iconic images.
Staying power. You're
March 31, 2008 - 20:36 ET by RESTLESS 1Staying power. You're kidding right? 50 years vs. 2008 years? No contest.
Context
March 31, 2008 - 20:54 ET by the curatorI wasn't comparing the two (nor was the author) as a contest.
To use a metaphore, it's like saying Sidney Crosby could carry the NHL the way Wayne Gretzky did.
No way you could reasonably compare the two in regards to what they've accomplished... just stating there is a good start for the younger of the two subjects.
The SLA, Manson Family and
March 31, 2008 - 21:03 ET by BlazerThe SLA, Manson Family and Weather Underground to name a few. All of these movement's grew out of the flower power, ant-war, peace movement of the sixties and quickly turned into American leftist guerrilla group's, specifically WU, two of it's terrorist member's Bernardine Dohrn who is a professor of law at Northwestern University and Bill Ayres a professor of education at University Illinois at Chicago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers
These two are revered demigogues by liberal's evrywhere to this day and very good friend's with one Barack Hussien Obama.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/22/15723/1610
(yep, I pulled it from mydd, now I have to go shower, yuck)
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
I Suppose...
March 31, 2008 - 21:22 ET by the curatorI don't really have any argument. I'm not disputing that any symbol can be used as negative imagery. (although, it is telling that you choose to hit liberals for no apparant reason in your post. By the way, do you have some aversion to the name Hussein?).
My argument was simply that it serves no purpose to bring up the peace symbols varied (and in these cases, obscure) uses... when the point of the article is to compare the peace symbol to iconic images that have been around for literally generations.
Ummmm,k, I hate ta break
March 31, 2008 - 21:34 ET by BlazerUmmmm,k, I hate ta break it to ya' sunshine but the taggie of this site is "exposing and combatting liberal media bias" this whole site hit's liberal's everytime an article goes up, it's a conservative oriented site.
"By the way, do you have some aversion to the name Hussein?)."
Yep, as a matter of fact I do, all three of the gentlemen I can think of when that name comes to mind have two thing's in common:
They loathe America and wish for it's destruction..............
...but only one is running for President Of The United States Of America.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Exposing Bias is Fine...
March 31, 2008 - 21:46 ET by the curatorBut, I don't see bias here. Comparing the staying power of the peace symbol with that of long-lasting images - while admitting it hasn't been around as long - is fine.
In fact, your line linking the symbol to a bunch of radicals whom liberals allegedly love had nothing to do with the article (the media which you're supposed to be exposing). You just decided to throw it out there.
As for the name Hussein... if you don't like Barack Obama's politics - fine. But, criticizing someone because of the name they were given at birth went out with sandboxes in elementary school, don't you think?
Seriously, you're a smart enough individual where you can debate someone on issues and things that matter. Not what someone's parents put on their birth certificates.
Also - I know this is a conservative site. But, I don't equate 'conservative' with the need to throw pot shots at liberals. I consider quality conservatives (and liberals) to be above that stuff. It's the people who refuse to or are unable to discuss things coherantly that drag the conversations into the mud. And they exist on both sides.
The supposed "bias" is in
March 31, 2008 - 21:51 ET by balboaThe supposed "bias" is in the press's "bashing" of Christianity by daring to mention a true fact about the cross.
I dont' like his
March 31, 2008 - 21:58 ET by BlazerI dont' like his politic's, ideaologies, or association's. When you first accused me of disparaging his name, I just typed out his full name after putting down a link showing his close associatian to two terrorist member's of a now de-funct leftist guerrilla group. You were the one who first made that connotation.
Is that any different than typing George Walker Bush, William Jefferson Clinton or Ronald Wilson Reagan.
If it's not anyones fault what was put on someones birth certificate and they should be proud of it, than why does the left get all bent out of shape whenever someone uses Obama's?
Why is it allright to use anyone elses first, middle and last names in the world, but you definitly, certifiably cannot use Barack Saddam Hussien Obama Bin Laden's ?
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
There is a difference...
March 31, 2008 - 22:42 ET by the curatorThe difference is you never use someone's full name in casual conversation. General public or politicians. Seriously, everytime you mention Ronald Reagan you say "Ronald Wilson Reagan?" Example, "I think Ronald Wilson Reagan did a lot to end the Cold War."
You use Barack Obama's middle name for one reason... to continually draw attention to a Muslim middle name, hoping it will re-emphasize the falsehood that he is Muslim. Whether you admit it or not, you know that's what you're doing. And it's childish to argue otherwise.
That's it for me for the night, folks. Thanks for the conversations.
Actually I dont' have
April 1, 2008 - 00:20 ET by BlazerActually I dont' have conversation's with Mr. Obama curator, we dont' kick it like that yet. I can assure you of this though, Sheikh Obama with his many dark, and shady past political and militant leftist affilliation's and his close personal ties to a certain militant, racist, anti-American pastor who he claim's is a mentor and significant influence in his life and who both have an affinity for one Louis Farrakhan, has more in common with other certain men with the name Hussien, than with men named Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln or Kennedy (John F.).
Before you go schooling me on ettiquette, maybe you would like to go drop in on your cohort's over at Kos, DU, or Huffpo and school them in on the proper way to refer to our politician's.
Not that I'm a big fan lately or anything, but the last time I checked our president's name was not Chimpy-McHaliburton-Bush-Hitler.
My aim was not to originally offend you, but I cant' help to think it wasn't so much my original reference to "Hussien" but that it was the link from "mydd" I threw in. The arrow's hurt worse when they come from your own side I know, but the truth's the truth and we all know how the left react's to truth, logic and fact.
It's like throwing holy water on a vampire.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Blazer...
March 31, 2008 - 22:03 ET by JerMaybe there is evidence to prove me wrong, but I don't recall the peace symbol being "used by armed leftist groups"--such as the SLA, Weather Underground, and the Manson family (which you mention below)--"that robbed, shot and blew up their own countrymen".
Jer
Right you are Jer, but
March 31, 2008 - 23:44 ET by BlazerRight you are Jer, but what they all have in common is they all derive from the San-Francisco Bay area anti-war, peace movement, of the sixties of which the "peace symbol" was strongly associated.
When you cant' achieve your political goal's through peaceful protest, copious amount's of brown acid and maryjane, I guess the next step is to go full blown Bolshevik and Maoist and start blowing sh*t up.
Since the left will draw whatever associations it want's with the symbol's of Christianity, I'll do the same with thier symbol's.
I alway's wondered why Joplin sang "Oh Lord, wont' you buy me a Mercedes Benz", now I know why.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/25/all-they-are-saying-is-giving-mercedes-benz-a-chance/
"You will never find was strongly associated.a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
KKK related story... This
March 31, 2008 - 19:10 ET by Clear thinkerKKK related story...
This is only vaguely related to this article, but shows how stupid these Klan folk are. When I lived in SC we had the unfortunate notoriety of having an active Klan group in our town. They called themselves the KKKK. Which stood for..... Kristian Klu Klux Klan. With spelling like that, it's no wonder this group never had more than a handful of members.
They actually had the gall to march in local parades. Each and every time they marched the crowd gathered along the parade route would do one of two things. People would either boo loudly, or laugh at these idiots.
"Abstain from McCain"
Holtom was a London
March 31, 2008 - 19:56 ET by Jack BauerYeah sure. And what was he objecting to?
Hitler rampaging across Europe, murdering millions. Implementing the Holocaust. Invading countries. Subjegating whole peoples. Bombing London. The Warsaw Ghetto.
No.. he was objecting to Britain, then America FIGHTING this evil bastard.
Oh yeah, he's a real hero to the left.
Here's a few more symbols
March 31, 2008 - 20:24 ET by Jack BauerHere's a few more symbols lefties never cease to love..
Being a leftist means never having any shame.
Not all leftists are
March 31, 2008 - 20:27 ET by JasonCNot all leftists are college sophomore stoners trying to piss off mom and dad by spending their trust fund on communist iconography.
But nonetheless, a complemenatry example. Today I saw an American flag sticker on someone's car. I'm pretty sure the driver supports slavery and the extermination of Native Americans that took place in the 1800s. Cause that's the totality of American culture and history, right? <sarc off>
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Great, Fantastic, Bully for
March 31, 2008 - 20:44 ET by Jack BauerGreat, Fantastic, Bully for you. What's your post got to do with my post?
By the way, if you look at the Stars & Stripes, you will see that it's different from the one from 1800. Hint 15 stars, for a starter.
But please carry on making shallow, idiotic comparisons.
Funny thing is, while you never see conservatives trying to piss of mommy and daddy by wearing the swastika, you do see liberals wearing the Hammer & Sickle, and they lurve Che.
And before you mention it, I am aware that some people sport Nazi regalia. But they are not conservatives. While mainstream leftists think it's chic to glorify sysboms of death and oppression,
I assume conservatives piss
March 31, 2008 - 20:47 ET by balboaI assume conservatives piss off their parents by studying art history and becoming a vegetarian? :-)
Conservatives don't try to
March 31, 2008 - 20:58 ET by Jack BauerConservatives don't try to piss of their parents as far as I know.
But as I was a teenage lefty, that was more than sufficient to piss off my dad bigtime.
Conservatives don't try to
March 31, 2008 - 21:00 ET by balboaConservatives don't try to piss of their parents as far as I know.
Ha. Ha-ha. Heh-heh. Bah. Bah-ha! BAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!WAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!
Jack, I, too, was a bit of a teenage lefty.
March 31, 2008 - 22:23 ET by R D HelmThat episode lasted right up until my dad, ex-Marine, Korean War vet and 1957 graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology (who made Barry Goldwater look like a flaming New-Dealer in comparison) essentially laid down the law.
Have you ever had a haircut administered by someone who has never had any real training in that area to speak of? And I won't even bother with the time I nearly ricocheted off the ceiling (I missed by mere inches) during a heated disagreement.
How I lived to see the age of twenty is a total mystery to me.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Jack...Just as the Nazi
March 31, 2008 - 21:35 ET by JerJack...Just as the Nazi regalia lovers are not mainstream conservatives, the Hammer & Sickle crowd are not mainstream liberals. You're talking about extremists at opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Jer
Jer,
March 31, 2008 - 23:05 ET by R D HelmSpeaking of regalia, I have always wanted an authentic German pickelhaube helmet.
I've always been right fond of them. :-)
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
That helmet is definitely
April 1, 2008 - 01:32 ET by JerThat helmet is definitely you, R D. Just be careful that you never leave it in your chair.
Jer
I don't know, in
March 31, 2008 - 23:20 ET by RickTaLifeI don't know, in high school, I remember that Che bull-s*** was pretty popular (mostly as fad, I doubt they really had a clue who he was, they just saw the shirt in catalogs and picked it up) where I grew up...granted, I'm in Jersey, but I didn't grow up in a very politically active (or informed) town at all. It wasn't extremists wearing it...in fact, not many of them had political opinions at all really...just regular, mainstream people. The hammer and cycle's weren't as common, but they were there too.
But at the end of the day
March 31, 2008 - 21:20 ET by BlazerBut at the end of the day with you folk's, it's alway's America the oppressor, America the slavemaster, America the rapist, America the murderer, America the occupier, dad please send money.
By the way I hear Al-Q's looking for a new speech writer since Gadahn caught a JDAM in the kisser, maybe you or your friend's might be interested.
"Not all leftists are college sophomore stoners"
Not all, but hey your the one who said "leftist" and not "liberal" when referring to your own ilk,....... pass the bong.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
But at the end of the day
April 1, 2008 - 12:40 ET by JasonCBut at the end of the day with you folk's, it's alway's America the oppressor, America the slavemaster, America the rapist, America the murderer, America the occupier, dad please send money.
By the way I hear Al-Q's looking for a new speech writer since Gadahn caught a JDAM in the kisser, maybe you or your friend's might be interested.
Are you saying that liberals are anti-American terrorist sympathizers? Because, really, I have never heard that on a conservative site before. The originality of your accusations has floored me.
I used the term leftist to be consistent; that's the term Jack used, and I was replying to him. Besides which, I don't consider the term leftist to be derogatory, necessarily.
And my response to Jack was, of course, patently absurd. But I was merely making a point by carrying his implied argument to it's logical conclusion. To some, the only thing one needs to know about the societies and political figures represented by the hammer and sickle or Maoist red star is their brutality. But many non-Americans see our flag, regardless of the number of stars it has at any one time, as encapsulating some of our dirty little atrocities. To us, it's stupefying that one could allow the stars 'n stripes to function as a metonym for our worst moments in history; but to some it makes perfect sense. Just as, to some, Che Guevara is a more-than-justified icon of freedom and revolution.
That said, I do agree that 99% of people who sport Che or hammer/sickle finery look like morons.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
You must be talking about a
March 31, 2008 - 20:39 ET by balboaYou must be talking about a slim, narrow segment of society because none of the liberals I know care for any of these.
Oh.. because YOU personally
March 31, 2008 - 20:51 ET by Jack BauerOh.. because YOU personally don't know anyone, that means it's a slim segment of society.
I don't know anyone who likes rap music. Must be because only a slim segment of society like it.
How many people do you
March 31, 2008 - 20:54 ET by balboaHow many people do you personally know that LOVE Che, the hammer & sickle, and the rest of that stuff?
Over time, it evolved from
March 31, 2008 - 20:28 ET by MidAmericaOver time, it evolved from its narrow association with nuclear disarmament into an insignia for countercultures of all kinds.
The most dangerous people are those who seek 'peace' at any cost. Wars happen. Always have. Always will. (at least in our lifetimes that's not going to change) If you want peace at any cost that's called surrender and subjugation.
One of the ironies to the 'Peace' symbol is that is was created as a protest to nuclear weapons but had the 'Peace' crowd actually gotten rid of the nuclear weapons then we would already have had an all out war with Russia and China. It's only because of nuclear weapons that we've not had a direct war with them.
Well Said
March 31, 2008 - 21:32 ET by the curatorBrilliant post. I don't agree entirely... but, some very good points. Sadly, your last line is far too true for any of us should be comfortable with.
I'm not sure of your
March 31, 2008 - 21:58 ET by MidAmericaI'm not sure of your age but I was raised with the threat of nuclear annihilation with 15 minutes notice (not me but somebody somewhere was supposed to know we had incoming). I remember in early grade school we were instructed that if we saw a nuclear flash outside our window we were to 'duck and cover' under our desks. (yeah, that was going to work). This was in the early years of Soviet confrontation before each side knew for sure that starting a nuclear war was also suicide.
At any cost
March 31, 2008 - 22:34 ET by austinhookThe most dangerous people are those who seek 'peace' at any cost.
Interesting that now we have come full circle -- the "war at any cost" people are an equal danger.
....and whom would those
March 31, 2008 - 22:37 ET by MidAmerica....and whom would those people be?
whom
March 31, 2008 - 22:49 ET by austinhookThe majority of congress who keeps voting for it, for starters, and religious fanatics of all stripes, extremists of all kinds, and even some muddle headed so called moderates.
The majority of
March 31, 2008 - 22:55 ET by MidAmericaThe majority of congress keeps voting for it because they don't have the nerve to turn our two current wars into failures when we aren't losing.
winning
March 31, 2008 - 23:06 ET by austinhookNo doubt the money will keep us "not losing it" for the next 100 years. With still more money we could not lose some more wars, and keep not losing them for still longer.
We have a habit of
March 31, 2008 - 23:19 ET by MidAmericaWe have a habit of leaving military whereever we get involved. No matter where you go in the world some form of the US military is not too far away.
As far as Iraq goes, if we have a presence there for a hundred years (without the casualties) that will be a good thing. That means the people of Iraq will probably be living with a decent level of freedom. After all, we are still in Germany and Japan 63 years later.
lol, maybe Obama can
March 31, 2008 - 23:22 ET by RickTaLifelol, maybe Obama can campaign to end our 63 year war with Japan and Germany then! :-D
staying there
April 1, 2008 - 00:05 ET by austinhookAfter all, we are still in Germany and Japan 63 years later.
However our intentions in Germany and Japan were more honest.
Moreover, I don't recall that we presided over the loss of another million local lives in those cases, after we had toppled the enemy governments.
You piss off the locals that badly and expect to stay? Without casualties!?
I was living in France when deGaulle kicked out the American bases. And that was just stock French huffiness. Imagine the kind of money it will take to get the vast majority of Iraqis to love us, starting from where we are at now.
Moreover, I don't recall
April 1, 2008 - 00:28 ET by MidAmericaMoreover, I don't recall that we presided over the loss of another million local lives in those cases, after we had toppled the enemy governments.
You piss off the locals that badly and expect to stay? Without casualties!?
uuhhh... We bombed Germany's cities to rubble and we had firebombed and dropped a couple of nuclear bombs on Japan's cities. There were a few locals that had some issues with us.
Well.... I'm off to bed.
Gee Austin
April 1, 2008 - 00:37 ET by BlondeAre you aware that the big "unrest" in Basra is a result of the Brits leaving?
Hmmm.....
Furthermore, are you aware that the so-called "fighting" there is Iraqi on Iraqi?
No?
This is what the media isn't telling you, little liberal....the Iraqis are standing up, and putting down the insurgency, mostly by themselves. They are the boots on the ground. We are giving them an assist...with our air power....but the Iraqis are beginning to solve their own problems.
My question for you, though, is why the hell are you so delighted to see any kind of a set-back in Iraq? Why does that make you "tingle up your leg"? What is it, that makes your anti-war stance so bloody important that you can't imagine true freedom as a gift?
Why are you a defeatocrat? Hmmmm? Can't you envision VICTORY? Is that not a concept in the liberal dogma?
I'm curious...and waiting for your response.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Iraq vs history and what's up now
April 1, 2008 - 04:00 ET by austinhookGood night mid-america -- and thanks for the lively debate.
Blonde: You folks got me articulating for a change, for better or worse -- so thanks as well.
I had the impression that the Brits never did have that much effect in Basra, even when they were at initial strength. So, I don't see current problems so much a result of their retreat to the airport.
I don't know what to believe about whose idea the latest fighting was. Maliki alone? In some areas the occupying powers contributed the critical support to the "government"
operations, although perhaps in Basra it was mostly Iraqi on Iraqi -- not that from this distance we can really know the situation accurately. This business of Sadr just recalling his fighters off the streets, after having held Maliki's forces to a standstill, could be Sadr losing, or it could be a mutual recognition of the pointlessness of fighting each other. It strikes me as curious how quickly Maliki praised Sadr. Sounds more like a truce arranged by a third partys to allow face saving for all. Just guessing. However, I do think I have the level of awareness you are calling for, albeit with a different set of premises somewhere.
I have some disenchantment about the Iraqis solving their own problems. I am reminded of how the Sunni and Shia largely solved their own problems in Bagdhad. Certainly the correct way to solve the problem between Shia groups is not to have them fight each other to the death, but to get them to reconcile. Encouraging them to fight it out is to seek prryhic victory, as sort of a spectator sport. I don't see it as the fastest road to freedom.
When the road to "victory" becomes long enough, then I become as interested in the trip and the process as I am in the destination. BTW, I don't concede that warfare is necessarily only a conservative idea, or the only road to freedom -- not in today's Iraq. In any case "victory" means different things to different players in the Iraq game. To some it means freedom for the Iraqi people, and to others it means military hegenomy over the region. For instance getting a nice stable reliable friendly strongman in power, like Mubarak in Egypt would satisfy most of the American population and certain power groups within. Freedom is what I want, but how it is used by militarists has something of the hollow ring of a campaign promise, or a carrot that will always be yanked away from us as we run torwards it. I would love for my cynicism to be proved wrong, however.
Freedom has a lot of necessary conditions and additional complications to remain more or less stable. I wish it were as simple as you make it sound, but I do understand the necessity of brevity in discussion.
There are many kinds of Victories, cheap or sometimes at any cost, happy for everyone one or just for the few and tragic for millions, partial or complete, one-sided or mutual. Victory for the survivors, or victory for all the participants. Usually victories are just a step along the road, and then the next challenge arises.
Michael Moore: ‘It
March 31, 2008 - 21:55 ET by lotrMichael Moore: ‘It connects to his message about questioning those in authority, of being a man of peace, of loving your neighbor.’
1. Jesus did not "question those in authority" simply because they were in authority. He called them out on their self-righteousness:
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
-- Luke 18:9-14
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
-- Luke 16:7
2. Jesus also said: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
-- Matt. 10:34
3. Finally, Jesus also had his priorities straight:
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
-- Matt. 22:36-39
To say that Michael Moore is a bit confused is an understatement.
That's because people like
March 31, 2008 - 23:29 ET by RickTaLifeThat's because people like Mr. Moore don't really know much about Jesus, or Christianity for that matter (or any other religion really). They just remember a few catch phrases they learned in church growing up (before they stopped going I guess), and decide that they can figure the rest of the message out themselves. Anyway, it doesn't matter to Moore what Jesus really said...if it was, he'd know more about the man. He uses choice statements by Jesus to lend credence to his views.
Choice statements
April 1, 2008 - 04:06 ET by austinhookHe uses choice statements by Jesus to lend credence to his views.
Wow, how diabolical. I guess only liberals would do that....
The "Peace Symbol" was a rip-off of the three pointed star.
March 31, 2008 - 23:42 ET by R D HelmDaimler should have sued the maggots off these hippies.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Now, Now, RD
March 31, 2008 - 23:49 ET by BlondeThe Panzer doesn't mind...why should you?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde,
April 1, 2008 - 00:04 ET by R D HelmLOL-@ $3.57/gal per each ten miles traversed, the Panzer is well on its way to becoming a permanent garage fixture.
Currently thinking Corolla.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
R D
April 1, 2008 - 00:07 ET by BlondeThe Panzer might make a nice Georgia addition to one's home, yes?
Sorry....I couldn't resist.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde,
April 1, 2008 - 00:27 ET by R D HelmLOL-perhaps it might at that.
Of course, the way things are going for me right now, I might very well wind up living in the damn thing. At least its a big Benz.
The positive side is, when you button the thing up, it's like being inside a 5,000lb vault.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
OK, R. D.
April 1, 2008 - 00:29 ET by BlondeIf you feel you really must, you may annex it to my dining room.
As long as you become my personal chef.
Annexation comes with a price, you understand.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde,
April 1, 2008 - 00:47 ET by R D HelmActually, I was planning to apply for the position of pool-cleaner for life and part-time chef. However, since you have opted out of the pool (which was probably a wise move, as around here, pools are rather detrimental to the overall property value) I can mow a mean row of grass and grill at the same time. All I need is room for my five Webers.
Of course, professional beach bum works for me, too, though it would have worked much better for me 20 years ago.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Fair enough, RD
April 1, 2008 - 00:52 ET by BlondeI'll have to check with the attorney, but I suspect I may have residual rights to granny's exclusive beach. I'll get back to you on that....I'm going to have to see whether you may park the Panzer there.
Having said that....I think I can squeeze 5 Webers in here....it may be a tad tight. But, as long as you don't toast my orchids, no worries.
That would leave you plenty of time to work on the beach bum thing. It's an acquired art...I might be able to give you a few pointers...but I'm not convinced it's the thing for you. Just sayin'.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde,
April 1, 2008 - 01:14 ET by R D HelmYeah, I think professional beach bum only works when one is south of 35. Sadly, I blew by that nine years ago.
However, my friends at Weber-Stephen Products Co. have finally come around on something I have been screaming for for the last three years. I always liked the gas versions, but for me, the primordial route is the only way to go.
Heck, even peace-symbol sporting throw-back hippies can appreciate this. After all, everybody has to eat, ya know?
Even aging hippies.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
You two are making me hungry, I'm going out to dinner
April 1, 2008 - 01:21 ET by upcountrywaterit's 7:15 here ;-P
I'm with you RD on the charcoal !
<gaia/love>SAVVVE The Whales N' Earth; conserve N' recycle !
IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
ucw,
April 1, 2008 - 01:39 ET by R D HelmWell, I don't mean to rub it in or anything, but I cooked up the last batch of my most excellent beer-chili for the year here in the northern 'burbs of Atlanta earlier tonight.
Good stuff, that was.
Now its back to chicken, fish and veggies. Well, until The Masters gets rolling, anyway.
Ribs, that will call for. :-)
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!