In an issue dominated by rehashing early and modern American campaign history, U.S. News & World Report’s January 28/February 4 issue devoted sympathetic pages to the losing campaigns of two Massachusetts liberals, John Kerry and Michael Dukakis. The cover promised stories on "The Dirtiest Campaigns Ever," and inside the "Down & Dirty" section included reporter Danielle Knight’s story charging the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made allegations about Kerry’s medals had "little or no merit," according to...The New York Times. In an interview with reporter Bret Schulte, Dukakis claimed that it’s all his fault we’re under the worst administration he’s ever lived under, since he failed to beat "old man" Bush in 1988, but he claimed he was the victim of negative ads that he said he failed to rebut.
The Kerry article by Danielle Knight was headlined "Vietnam Vets’ Ad Torpedoes Kerry Image." Knight recounted Kerry marching to the stage of the 2004 Democratic convention declaring "I’m reporting for duty," and noted that the group calling themselves the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth took exception to his memories of combat bravery and his "1971 Senate testimony alleging American atrocities in Vietnam." The ads, reported Knight, raised questions with independent voters who knew little about Kerry. But anyone watching TV in the first half of 2004 saw Kerry repeatedly exploiting his military service as a trump card against President Bush. Then Knight explained how the whole campaign went "viral" and was factually challenged:
Initially, few ads were placed, and they got scant attention, but as soon as the Drudge Report, Fox News, and other media heard about them, the ads quickly dominated election coverage. In the age of the 24-hour cable news cycle, "things got viral very quickly," says Allan Lichtman, a political history professor at American University.
Fact check. Within weeks, news organizations, including the New York Times, said that the group's claims about Kerry's medals had little or no merit (his opposition to the war proved more problematic). "The allegations were bogus, but that didn't matter," says Lichtman. "The public isn't out there fact-checking."
Here’s what Knight does not explain. Professor Lichtman is not some nonpartisan professor. He ran as a Democrat for U.S. Senate in 2006. Knight is correct that the New York Times reported in its news pages that the charges against Kerry’s combat stories were "unsubstantiated." (Clay Waters did extensive work on that at TimesWatch.) But is the New York Times any less partisan than the Senate candidate from Maryland? The first Times story was more focused on probing the connections between the anti-Kerry vets and the Republican establishment than it was on the veracity of Kerry’s combat tales.
The entire controversy over one March 1969 incident – the one on the Bay Hap River used consistently by the Kerry campaign and starring Kerry colleague Jim Rassmann – came down to a he said, he said debate. Kerry’s version became the Navy record. Other vets who were there that day denied there was any gunfire, always the most dramatic part of the Kerry story. So who wins the "fact check" on recounting that day? Who proves the other side wrong, as if someone had a movie camera?
Knight’s fractured history also excludes incidents where Kerry’s stories didn’t meet a fact check. Even Kerry’s historical stenographer Douglas Brinkley didn’t support his wild tale of being in Cambodia in Christmas of 1968, fuming at President Nixon. Kerry also claimed he threw his medals away in a Capitol Hill protest – but the medals he tossed were actually someone else’s.
Then the real whining set in, as a Kerry aide implausibly claimed that the Kerry campaign couldn’t respond because they had accepted public funding. But what about fighting the charges in the news media for free? In reality, the candidate himself tried not to even respond or rebut the charges for several weeks in August of 2004. The Swift Vets group first aired their charges in May, but the major media tried hard to ignore them for months. But Knight recycles the implausible:
But Kerry didn't refute the charges immediately. Tad Devine, a senior campaign adviser, blames the decision to accept public funding, a move that prohibited the campaign from raising additional private funds. Cash spent rebutting the Swift Boat ads would have meant less for fighting Bush. Once the story ballooned, Kerry defended his record by rounding up a group of supportive veterans and launching counter-ads. But the damage was done.
The Dukakis interview was headlined "The Photo Op That Tanked." Bret Schulte lamented "The photo of Dukakis with a dopey grin and a huge helmet aboard a tank was turned into an ad ridiculing him as soft on defense. And the story of Willie Horton, a Massachusetts prisoner who killed a woman while on furlough, was used as a racially charged accusation that Dukakis was no crime fighter." His chat with Dukakis was friendly, and Dukakis was still beating his breast:
How would you describe your legacy?
If I had beaten the old man, we'd never heard of the kid, and we'd be in a lot better shape these days. So it's all my fault.So, you consider the presidency of George W. Bush your doing?
We'd never be in this mess if I had done a better job. This has been the worst national administration I've ever lived under....Of all the attacks lobbed at you, what hurt your candidacy the most?
I'm the last guy to tell you that. Certainly the Willie Horton and soft-on-crime stuff. And since the attacks were coming from a guy whose home city, Houston, had a homicide rate four times the homicide rate of Boston, it was inexcusable that I let him get away with this. But I did.What were you thinking at the time?
There had been a whole lot of polarization in the Reagan years. I thought people were sick of that. But the lesson of '88 is you can't sit there mute while the other guy is pounding you with stuff that's sheer hypocrisy. Bush was part of an administration that had a furlough program that made ours look like the toughest program in America.What ran through your mind when you saw the Horton ad?
You don't have a lot of time to sit and look at a television. And, a point of fact is that after working 16-hour campaign days, it's the last thing you want to do.Some analysts believe the image of you in the tank did you in.
That didn't beat me. If we had run a decent national campaign, that wouldn't have had any effect.Bush used that image in an ad describing you as soft on defense. The irony is that you supported a buildup in conventional weapons like tanks.
I was at the tank factory to make that point, obviously. Now, should I have been in the tank? Probably not, in retrospect. But these days when people ask me, "Did you get here in a tank?" I always respond by saying, "No, and I've never thrown up all over the Japanese prime minister." But, you know, things happen.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center













Comments Policy
Dukakis...claimed he was the
January 25, 2008 - 16:35 ET by Chris NormanDukakis...claimed he was the victim of negative ads that he said he failed to rebut.
"Failed to" or couldn't?
The Willie Horton ad was
January 25, 2008 - 22:10 ET by MikeBThe Willie Horton ad was first used by one of his Democrat opponents during the primaries. The facts of the ad were easily proven, thus he could not refute or rebut.
As for Kerry and the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, Kerry still has not refuted any of the claims made by the Swifties. And, that in spite of T. Boone Pickens' offer of $1,000,000 to anyone who can disprove any one of the claims. Kerry still refuses to release his DD-214, which he claims could refute the Swifties. It seems to me that if by releasing my DD-214 I could cop a cool million, I'd do it in a minute.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Most of us are still waiting
January 25, 2008 - 16:40 ET by motherbeltT. Boone Pickens offered $1 million to anyone who could prove that any of the Swift Boat Vet charges were false. As I recall, Kerry said he was "prepared" to produce the proof. We are still waiting for him to do so.
mb... ....and he never
January 25, 2008 - 16:41 ET by bigtimermb...
....and he never will.
Delightful isn't it?
No surprise there
January 25, 2008 - 16:46 ET by motherbeltHe still hasn't signed the form to release all his records.
Wrong again,
January 25, 2008 - 18:58 ET by JerWrong again, motherbelt...Kerry signed the release a couple of years ago. The records supported Kerry's accounts.
You may have been confused over the fact that Bush still hasn't released all of his records.
Jer
Incorrect. Not all
January 25, 2008 - 19:01 ET by BDIncorrect. Not all records were relased. Only partial release.
No medical records etc.
BD...are you referring to
January 25, 2008 - 19:18 ET by JerBD...are you referring to Kerry, Bush, or both? Because I'm fairly certain Kerry has released a heck of a lot more than Bush has.
Jer
Guess Again
January 25, 2008 - 20:21 ET by Del DolemonteKerry "released" all of his records, but not to the public. He "released" them to exactly 3 reporters. One was Michael Kranish from his hometown paper, the NY Times-owned Boston Globe, which endorsed him. The other two reporters were (big surprise) AP's resident Democrat butt-kisser, Glen Johnson, who of course is the guy who got in a shouting match with Mitt Romney recently, and Kerry derriere-kisser Stephen Braun of the LA Times, who totally ignored the story that Kerry had slightly lower college grades than Bush did. All of Braun's paper's national competitors, including the NYT and WaPo, mentioned the grades, but he ignored that part of the story.
Interestingly enough, the Globe's Kranish wrote this story at the time:
http://www.boston.co...
excerpt:
"Kerry, in an interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press," was asked whether he would follow President Bush's example and release all of his military records. "I have," Kerry said. "I've shown them -- they're available for you to come and look at." He added that "people can come and see them at headquarters."
But when a reporter showed up yesterday morning to review the documents, the campaign staff declined, saying all requests must go through the press spokesman, Michael Meehan. Late yesterday, Meehan said the only records available would be those already released to this newspaper.
"He is releasing all military records he has released to The Boston Globe," Meehan said in a telephone interview. In a follow-up e-mail, Meehan said it was those particular records to which Kerry was referring on "Meet the Press."
As for Bush's military records, according to Kranish's story which I cite above, Bush did release then all.
The now-deceased (like its founder, Junior Kennedy) magazine "George" did a lengthy story, with links to military documents, that pretty much proved the Bush AWOL story wasn't true. Since the magazine is no longer around, the article isn't either. But you may be able to find it cut and pasted on some other website or blog.
Incorrect. Not all
January 26, 2008 - 08:41 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsIncorrect. Not all records were relased. Only partial release.
Actually, Kerry did release his records, he released them to Jer who stuffed them in the exhaust pipe of the heater in his basement, hence the hallucinations.
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Perhaps Teresa gave him a
January 25, 2008 - 16:44 ET by Chris NormanPerhaps Teresa gave him a million, told him to buy himself something pretty. and to forget about it. :)
Hey Chris... Believe it
January 25, 2008 - 16:49 ET by bigtimerHey Chris...
Believe it or not I was going to post the opposite after I posted, I thought about her saying to him "you know you owe me...go get them big boy....I want a return on my $$$..."
He can't produce that way so I guess he has to go back to his usual tactics...if you get my drift...
LOL....
He's a "kept man", BT. I
January 25, 2008 - 16:57 ET by Chris NormanHe's a "kept man", BT. I think either way works. :)
I'm reminded of the old tv ad for a bank that showed a smarmily handsome guy laying by a mansion's pool. The butler says "She wants you in the bedroom". When the guy gets there, the ancient lady in the bed tells the gigolo to "Rub my feet". The tag line was, "There are better ways to make money". Whenever I saw Kerry, I always thought about that ad. :)
Chris... Beleive it or
January 25, 2008 - 17:03 ET by bigtimerChris...
Beleive it or not I thought the same thing when seeing that commercial...I mean it!
.....too funny!!!
Great minds, BT... :)
January 25, 2008 - 17:19 ET by Chris NormanGreat minds, BT... :)
Bob Tyrell actually
January 25, 2008 - 16:50 ET by motherbeltBob Tyrell actually installed a Crybaby Kerry Clock on the AmSpec website, ticking away until he came up with his proof. But he gave it up after a couple of months when it became obvious he wouldn't. He said in a column:
It is reported that Kerry's fellow Democrats
were embarrassed by Kerry's unsubstantiated charges and empty whining.
It brought to the public eye all his self-absorbed melodrama from the
catastrophic 2004 race. Frankly, I sympathized with the Democratic
leaders, but Kerry's guff deserved to be put to the test. Thus on Nov.
21, I unveiled on The American Spectator's Web site The Crybaby Kerry
Clock. I promised that it would silently ticktock away beneath a smug
depiction of Crybaby Kerry, counting the hours until he came forward
with his promised evidence of the Swift Boat Veterans' false
advertising, his Vietnam journal and his military record. No evidence
has been forthcoming. We all have had a good laugh. Yet it is time to
move on, as the cliche traffickers put it. On Jan. 4, the historic
clock will cease to exist, and we all shall have to await Crybaby
Kerry's next catastrophe of self-promotion.
Bob Tyrell?...Bob Tyrell?
January 25, 2008 - 19:12 ET by JerBob Tyrell?...Bob Tyrell? Thanks for the laugh. He has about as much credibility as the 9/11 "truthers".
Jer
Tyrell has more credibility
January 25, 2008 - 19:21 ET by bigtimerTyrell has more credibility in the clipping of his little fingernail than 99% of anyone in the leftist msm of any venue.
bt...I certainly wouldn't
January 25, 2008 - 19:55 ET by Jerbt...I certainly wouldn't dispute the possibility that the loci of Tyrell's capacity for critical thinking are within his pinky fingernails.
Jer
Kerry ... AARRGGGHHH!!!
January 25, 2008 - 18:43 ET by masslibertarianMost of you NB'ers don't have the luxury of having this clown for your senator. I somehow found myself cut off behind enemy lines "represented" by him, Teddy Kennedy and Barney Frank.
God bless John O'Neill and the rest of the swift boat vets. Ol' T. Boone Pickens won't be writing that check anytime soon.
You're right, masslibertarian...
January 25, 2008 - 19:03 ET by JerYou're right, masslibertarian...Ol' T. Boone won't be writing a check because he weasled out of the bet after realizing he had stuck his boot in his mouth.
Jer
Really?
January 25, 2008 - 20:36 ET by Del DolemonteActually, T-Bone said that he wouldn't honor the bet unless Kerry surrendered additional evidence, like his wartime journal, combat films and additional military records.
How is that "weaseling out"?
Del..Reread your post. It
January 25, 2008 - 20:59 ET by JerDel..Reread your post. It answers your question.
But for the record...Pickens made the "offer" and Kerry accepted. End of story. At least it should have been. But Pickens realizing his bluff had been called started hemming and hawing and attaching ex post facto conditions. That ain't cricket.
It would be tantamount to my betting that you couldn't prove you made a contribution to some charity. You accept the bet [possessing canceled checks, bank statements, and other irrefutable evidence] and then I say, well, I'm not going to pay unless you turn over your tax returns to me for the past five years....That would be known as "weaseling out".
Jer
But thanks for correcting my spelling of weasel.
Let Us Know
January 25, 2008 - 21:15 ET by Del DolemonteWhen Kerry releases ALL of his records. Then we'll talk.
As I note elsewhere, my Dad was Executive Officer (second in command) on a vessel under one of the leading Swifties a few years before he and Kerry served together in 'Nam. Said Swifty has not a dishonest bone in his entire body.
my mis-representatives
January 25, 2008 - 19:31 ET by needleI am in the same Mass-mess as you.
I refer to Kerry, Teddy, etc. as my mis-representatives.
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
But look at the bright side
January 26, 2008 - 00:57 ET by masslibertarianTogether We Can :-)
I'm always amazed that Teddy
January 26, 2008 - 07:13 ET by motherbeltI'm always amazed that Teddy keeps getting re-elected...I'm originally from Mass. Every time I would go to visit family and friends, if the talk turned to politics, everyone I talked to swore they didn't vote for him. LOL
Wrong, motherbelt...Kerry
January 25, 2008 - 18:52 ET by JerWrong, motherbelt...Kerry called his bluff...T. Boone tried to change the bet and then crawled off into the sunset.
Jer
Oh Jer... Those
January 25, 2008 - 19:03 ET by bigtimerOh Jer...
Those rose-colored glasses of yours need to be cleaned.
Sorry bt...the color of the
January 25, 2008 - 19:06 ET by JerSorry bt...the color of the glasses don't change the facts. T. Boone "crayfished" on his bet.
Jer
As soon as Kerry called him
January 25, 2008 - 19:47 ET by goldbarAs soon as Kerry called him out, Pickens reneged on his offer because he knew he had lost. Look it up.
I know goldbar...don't tell
January 25, 2008 - 20:00 ET by JerI know goldbar...don't tell me...tell the other folks here.
[Actually, Pickens just started squirming and trying to attach new ridiculous "conditions" to the bet. In other word, he weasled out.]
Jer
Hey Jer- People here will
January 25, 2008 - 20:10 ET by goldbarHey Jer-
People here will believe what they want regardless of the truth. My guess is that McCain will even get swift-boated by his own party because he's anti-torture. They really want Romney in there and they're willing to eat their own to make sure it happens.
That's pretty ridiculous, goldbar
January 25, 2008 - 20:28 ET by RJIf anyone is "eating their own" it's the Clintons. They have disgracefully made the nomination process about race, while daily proving that it's the Democrat Party that is truly racist.
The primary reason most conservatives dislike McCain is that he's repeatedly proven he's too willing to give up conservative principles. On the flip side, that's exactly why the left likes him.
I'll agree with you about
January 25, 2008 - 20:34 ET by goldbarI'll agree with you about the Clintons, however the left doesn't like McCain--he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years!
I didn't say they'd ELECT him, goldbar
January 25, 2008 - 20:38 ET by RJThe media just likes him as a nominee.
Plus the left thinks he is
January 25, 2008 - 20:36 ET by bigtimerPlus the left thinks he is so beatable...same with Huck.
The press ooohing and ahhhhing constantly with anyone with an 'R' after their name ought to send warning signals to any conservative.
I Did
January 25, 2008 - 20:38 ET by Del DolemonteAs I noted above, T-Bone asked for more info from Kerry. The only one who claims that Pickens "weaseled out" is noted blackface expert blogger Jane Hamster...
No, Jer, not wrong.
January 25, 2008 - 20:52 ET by motherbeltNo, he didn't try to "change the bet." He told Kerry what he would accept as "proof." Since he was offering the payment, he believed he had the right to specify what "proof" he wanted. Kerry didn't like the terms, but never countered with what he was willing to produce. So the bet was off.
And no, I'm not confused.
Bush Releases His Vietnam-era Military Files
motherbelt....Sorry, you're
January 25, 2008 - 21:17 ET by Jermotherbelt....Sorry, you're still wrong. Pickens doesn't get to specify what he will accept. [See my reply to Del Delmonte in this thread.]
After Kerry accepted, and Kerry supplied the evidence, Pickens could have paid or refused to pay. In the latter case, Kerry could have sued to enforce the agreement, and a court could have determined if there were an enforceable contract, the sufficiency of proof, etc.
If Pickens were honorable, he would not have attached new conditions and designated which "records" he would deem acceptable.
Re. your link on release of Bush's records...what does the Three Little Pigs have to do with Bush's military service?
Jer
Sorry, wrong link. Here is
January 25, 2008 - 22:30 ET by motherbeltSorry, wrong link. Here is the correct one.
We disagree about the requiremens of the bet. My contention is that a bet is between two people...courts and proof and law don't enter into it. They squabbled about the nature of the proof. It seems to me if he had something that would prove it outside of Pickens' demand, he would have said "this is what I'm giving you..take it or leave it." I've looked at many links regarding the bet...I have not seen anywhere that Kerry ever said what he would offer as proof. He simply refused Pickens' demands. If you have info that he offered some other proof, that Pickens' rejected, I will stand corrected.
Glad to see you're withdrawing your other assertion about the vets wanting Kerry's personal letters. Why would they want them at this point?
motherbelt...I'll see what
January 25, 2008 - 22:46 ET by Jermotherbelt...I'll see what I can find out regarding Kerry's "proof". But I have to take a break for awhile. We'll talk later.
Jer
BTW...regarding the letters [and again I'm admittedly a little sketchy on the issue], I suspect anti-Kerry vets would be looking for any information which might contradict his version of events, and also, any embarrassing anti-war sentiments Kerry may have expressed in the letters.
Jer
Translation
January 26, 2008 - 00:10 ET by Del Dolemonte"...I'll see what I can find out regarding Kerry's "proof". But I have to take a break for awhile. We'll talk later. "
In other words..."I just lost the argument"
Del...In other words, I
January 26, 2008 - 02:15 ET by JerDel...In other words, I meant exactly what I said. I hope you were just kidding [although you didn't indicate you were]. Otherwise, I'm very surprised you would say that.
Jer
Here's the question people
January 25, 2008 - 21:18 ET by CortillaenHere's the question people should be asking: If the requested evidence really did support Kerry's claims, why was it never realeased to the public? Obviously, if a politician has a chance to be vindicated in the public eye, he should take it. The fact that Kerry would only release bits and pieces to the public means that the full record either does not support him or reveals something worse than the allegations it might disprove. Frankly, there are no other reasonable possibilities. For those who try to claim that Kerry just wants his privacy, everyone in politics (with half a brain) understands that their entire life goes on trial at every election, as, frankly, it should. The people have the right to know the truth about whomever is running.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Exactly
January 26, 2008 - 00:16 ET by Del DolemonteAs has been noted already, Bush had nothing to hide with his military records re. the Air National Guard. He released all of his military records.
For those neophytes out there, Bush volunteered to be sent to Vietnam after he was trained to fly the F-102. However, that plane was being phased out, since it was one of the biggest pilot-killers in the US military aircraft fleet, due to its faulty design (it was one of the biggest killer of military pilots at the time).
It would have required more time to train him to fly another military aircraft, and by the time they had trained him to fly said replacement plane, his hitch would have been up anyway.
:puts on liberal
January 26, 2008 - 00:23 ET by tracheostomy:puts on liberal hat:
See? That's just it. "They" planned it that way. They knew the aircraft was faulty and so they sent ShRuB to a cushy "dead end" training program to get him out sooner so he wouldn't have to serve.
:takes off liberal hat:
Whew, that one gave me a headache. I should sell my material to Air America.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Okay Del...your turn to
January 26, 2008 - 02:33 ET by JerOkay Del...your turn to provide some backup. I would like to see some evidence Bush "volunteered for Viet Nam".
The reason Bush stopped flying was due to his failure to take his flight physical [for reasons never fully explained] which apparently came as somewhat of a surprise to his superior officers.
He did transfer to Alabama to help run a friend's political campaign, although for some time it seems no one new where he was. He was allowed to "make up" a lot of lost credits for absences in Alabama, and perhaps made them all up, although the issue still remains controversial.
I'm not sure what the failure rate of the F-102A was, but the F-104 and F-105 also had widowmaker reputations. I would imagine the F-102 was never deployed to Viet Nam because it was intended to be a long-range strategic bomber interceptor. I don't believe North Viet Nam possessed a single bomber of that class.
Bush stopped flying, never took another flight physical, and was granted an early out.
Jer
Congrats on ignoring the
January 26, 2008 - 20:50 ET by CortillaenCongrats on ignoring the main point and focusing only on the "in addition" comments, Jer.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Wanna see dirty?
January 25, 2008 - 16:42 ET by sarcasmoLook what one of the Swift Boat Vets, Mr. Jerome Corsi, is saying about inflation NOW. Why, it's almost like I just found another one for my already-bulging "I told you so" files, no? :)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
And this has WHAT
January 25, 2008 - 17:39 ET by BDAnd this has WHAT correlation to the opinions of the SWIFT BOAT VETS regarding John Kerry's leadership capabilities?
Or are you simply trolling for ANY way to link in a Libertarian issue?
None. Never said it did.
January 25, 2008 - 17:42 ET by sarcasmoBut like I've told you elsewhere today, nice tap-dancing around the actual issue!
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Then why for Gods sake did
January 25, 2008 - 17:47 ET by BDThen why for Gods sake did you BRING IT UP?
Do you now wish to discuss future NBA Drafts, Displasia of the hip, or New Coke as well?
Is Ron Paul eligible for the
January 25, 2008 - 17:53 ET by Chris NormanIs Ron Paul eligible for the NBA?. Does Ron Paul have displasia of the hip? Does Ron Paul drink New Coke? Doesn't matter. Sarc, will drag both in, anyway...
Yep, see SARC posting
January 25, 2008 - 18:00 ET by BDYep, see SARC posting below.
I imagine if a photo existed of George Bush and Ron Paul together in a high school class photo, somehow Sarc would worm this together to make any reference to GWB a SARCIAN Paulian reference.
He shows no analytical control.
Whine whine whine!
January 25, 2008 - 18:05 ET by sarcasmoAgain! I'll let you not-think about what Corsi said and go now, with those three words just for you .
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
SARCian response....
January 25, 2008 - 18:57 ET by BDNigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven
Your links
January 26, 2008 - 07:29 ET by sarcasmoAre as cogent as your "arguments." Congrats. Now everyone sees why I consistently give you the respect you deserve. Mr. Corsi remains a Swift Boat Vet, but now he's saying stuff you dislike instead of stuff you like. Tough.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
SHACKITY SHACKITY SHACKITY
January 28, 2008 - 11:02 ET by BDSHACKITY SHACKITY SHACKITY SHACK!!!!!!!
Now you KNOW how silly it is to simply post a link without ANALYSIS presented in accompaniment.
I now can expect you to cease your practice of doing so, correct?
Why should I bother?
January 28, 2008 - 11:10 ET by sarcasmoYou have yet to make any sense. Despite all your tapdancing, inflation continues...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Your posting of a
January 28, 2008 - 14:23 ET by BDYour posting of a link having NOTHING (Commments by Paul reference Inflation??????) to do with the subject, once again proves you are incapable of performing analytical thought and is once again akin to my posting the Spinal Tap link.
No tap dancing involved. Standing here flat footed and incredulous that you cannot see the difference.
Dude, like it or not, Corsi's now talking about inflation
January 28, 2008 - 14:26 ET by sarcasmoAs is Paul, and you're trying to tap-dance around the subject and whine about me posting THE TRUTH about what Corsi's talkin' about these days. It's politically inconvenient for you, and that's not likely to change. Tough.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
I stipulate to the fact
January 28, 2008 - 15:55 ET by BDI stipulate to the fact that both Corsi and Paul have discussed inflation.
HOWEVER, I also assume that CORSI and PAUL also;
1.) Believe the earth is mostly round.
2.) believe water is made of oxygen and hyrdogen
3.) Have travelled int he continetal US.
But posting their names in association with each of the three points listed above would be considered foolishly tangential without amplifying logical analysis as is your point of two days ago.
And you got logical analysis
January 29, 2008 - 03:06 ET by sarcasmoYou just didn't like it, but I'll repeat it for you: "Why, it's almost like I just found another one for my already-bulging 'I told you so' files, no? :)" Corsi's a Swift Boat Vet. Sometimes he says inconvenient things for John Kerry, and sometimes he says inconvenient things for you. It's not "foolishly tangential" when it's a fact, and this is a fact in my ever-growing "I told you so" category, so I said so & you whined about it.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Because the guy, like it or not, is
January 25, 2008 - 17:56 ET by sarcasmoA Swift Boat Vet. And one of the major ones because he co-wrote the book, as stated in his bio at the end of the story. You can discuss anything you want about other stuff, I don't particularly care. What you probably want to do is avoid what Corsi's talking about this time, because it's not as politically-convenient for you as the Kerry stuff was last time when Corsi said that. Tough.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul. (All purpose anti-slander-link, sadly-needed these days...)
Sour Grapes
January 25, 2008 - 16:46 ET by mattmOf course it's 'dirty' to tell the sordid truth about a Liberal traitor trying to portray himself as a hero, or about a Leftist loser who made a policy of letting murderers out of jail.
BTW It was Al Gore who originally used the Willie Horton debacle against Dukakis.
Speaking of Senator Kerry
January 25, 2008 - 16:50 ET by BourbeauHas he released the unredacted version, or any version for that matter, of his military records? My memory tells me he was suppose to do that, very shortly. And this was years ago.
No, he hasn't. James
January 25, 2008 - 16:56 ET by motherbeltNo, he hasn't. James Taranto of the WSJ kept track of the days since the promise. Back in November, when Pickens made his $1million offer, Taranto said this (emphasis added):
“Good luck Boone, trying to get those military records. Kerry promised
to release them [1,034] days ago, and an anxious nation (except for a
few select reporters) still holds its breath.” —The Wall Street
Journal’s James Taranto, who has kept track of the days since Kerry
first promised to release his full military records to Tim Russert on
NBC’s “Meet the Press”
That 1034 days was back in November of 2007.
mb... Yep...I saw him say
January 25, 2008 - 16:59 ET by bigtimermb...
Yep...I saw him say that on Russert's show and told my husband then he was lying through his teeth...he never will release any of that because he can't.
Russert has never called him out on this either...which he could if he wanted one way or the other.
From the Boston
January 25, 2008 - 20:22 ET by goldbarFrom the Boston Globe--
"In May 2005, he began allowing reporters access to his full Navy personnel and medical records — something he refused to do during the campaign.
Those records mostly duplicated documents Kerry released during the 2004 campaign. In addition, they included numerous commendations from commanders who criticized Kerry's service during the presidential race."
Link, please?
January 25, 2008 - 20:40 ET by Del DolemonteLink, please?
willy (small case intentional )
January 25, 2008 - 16:52 ET by ZmeademanI wasnt even into politics then but I can remember dukk on that Abrams like yesterday.He had no cred then or now but these losers never seem to stay away .He reminds me of another loser by large, g ferraro who like glue seeping out of pressed wood comes out as "experts".(a phrase I,m sick of)
Swiftboating has two definitions
January 25, 2008 - 17:02 ET by JayTeeThe Swiftboater and the Swiftboatee have different definitions in the Dictionary......Two versions. The Vets who did the Swifboating have the following definition---
"swiftboating" as "exposing the lies, deceit and fraud of self-glorifying public officials or candidates for office who exaggerate their military service by lying about their feats of heroism and combat wounds."
It wasn't a political Campaign, it was a Truth Campaign. Evidently Kerry was very easy person to Remember, in spite of his short 3 month Tour. No one could forget him, and when he testified in front of Congress and lied about the Veit Nam Vets, some of those same vets could never forget him.
Now this article describing "The Dirtiest Campaigns Ever," and reporter Danielle Knight’s story charging the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made allegations about Kerry’s medals had "little or no merit," according to...The New York Times" is just another example of the US News and Slanted Report trying to have weight and Influence people ... once again. These guys are digging up dead bodies and trying to determin cause of death...of the MSM.
If Dukakaii believes what he said "This has been the worst national administration I've ever lived under...." he needs to talk about the DETAILS...exactly why does he think this ? What passes for Reporting nowadays is just Instant reply of BDS, and the attempt to rewrite History as it didn't happen.
Benefit of the doubt
January 25, 2008 - 17:18 ET by KC MulvilleSometimes a baseball announcer, after an accidental swing and a bloop hit, will say "how he hit it doesn't matter, in the scorecard it's still a hit." That's the same principle at work here.
When the SwiftBoat ads came out, there were plenty of people who rushed to defend Kerry. They took the published stories and "examined" them, and often they wound up arguing that there wasn't enough evidence to support the charges, or that the evidence was inconclusive. Naturally, they started with giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt, and they would deny the charges unless there was overwhelming proof, something you're unlikely to find in the field.
I've never passed judgment on the SwiftBoat ads. I don't know whether they're true or false. But the idea that "independent evidence" has completely "debunked" the charges is just nonsense. The most you can say is that it's inconclusive.
What is interesting is the media's bias in favor of Kerry, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Did they give Rudy the benefit of the doubt about the expense-charging "scandal" (that they later retracted)? Did they give Bush any benefit of a doubt, ever? Dan Rather threw away his career on evidence that we now know was manufactured. Where was his benefit of the doubt?
KC: Concur with your
January 25, 2008 - 17:45 ET by BDKC:
Concur with your analysis of how the Swift Boat myth, as told by the media came about.
In reality, most swift boat vets said nothing more than "I do not believe John F Kerry has the leadership ability to serve as president."
Some of them then fleshed out their statements with details and their observations of John F Kerry, but in essence that was ALL it was.
Somehow the media was then able to spin this into a great Conspiracy theory (As leftists are wont to do.) that should instantly discredit the Swift Boat Vets.
Let us just say that if 250 of my comrades were to say that I was not capable of being president, I would probably assume they were correct on the face of it.
"2004's Swift Boat Vets One
January 25, 2008 - 17:43 ET by kg"2004's Swift Boat Vets One of ‘Dirtiest Campaigns Ever’"
It was only the Media and Kerry that made it a dirty campaign.
kg, You're so right.
January 25, 2008 - 17:47 ET by Leonkg,
You're so right. Kerry never should have saved Jim Rassman's life.
If he hadn't then the swiftboaters wouldn't have had anything to lie about and the campaign would have never gotten dirty.
Damn Kerry and his pesky heroism!
If you read the actual
January 25, 2008 - 17:50 ET by BDIf you read the actual statements of the Swift Boat Vets, very few focus on the event you bring up.
Most discuss his leadership demeanor, actions upon return to the US, and statements he himself had made during the Winter Soldier affair.
They had the right to their opinions based on these legitimate observations, don't you think?
BD, They lied. They
January 25, 2008 - 17:55 ET by LeonBD,
They lied. They smeared a veteran for selfish purposes.
Again, they got McCain and they got Kerry.
Say what you will about Kerry, but what they did to McCain in 2000 was an absolute disgrace.
Leon: How can an opinion
January 25, 2008 - 18:07 ET by BDLeon:
How can an opinion such as "I do not think Kerry has the leadership ability to be president" expressed by 250 of his fellow Swift Boaters be a lie?
The only way that statement can be a lie is if they actually DID think he had the leadership ability and were expressing the opposite view. Is this what you think happened?
BD: Simple. An opinion
January 25, 2008 - 18:10 ET by LeonBD:
Simple. An opinion can be a lie when the rational put forth to support it is based on lies.
Which is exactly what happened in this instance.
They expressed an opinion that was backed up by lies propagated and funded by Spaeth Communications.
I'd think a soldier such as yourself would find the slandering of a man's combat performance to be reprehensible.
They expressed an opinion
January 25, 2008 - 18:40 ET by Chris Norman"They expressed an opinion that was backed up by lies propagated and funded by Spaeth Communications."
And here I thought it was backed up by the fact that they served with him and observed him first hand.
The opinion was based on
January 25, 2008 - 18:44 ET by BDThe opinion was based on their observations of the man during the war and afterwards.
Is it a lie that he bad mouthed the war prior to his arrival?
Is it a lie that he actively sought to remove himself from bombat after only three months of his one year tour?
Is it a lie that he assisted in the commision of purjury at the Winter Soldier convocation?
Is it a lie that he testified falsely before Congress regarding the War?
Is it a lie that HE slandered his fellow veterans in a reprehensible manner?
I would think someone
January 25, 2008 - 18:45 ET by Roger the ShrubberI would think someone sincerely looking for the truth would use an actual hard news source to prove you to be correct, not crap gleened from Soros-funded hack sites like Sourcewatch.
But, then again, you were never one to let facts interfere with idealogy.
If you have actual proof that the Swift Boaters are lying, by all means, prove it.
Sorry, Leon
January 25, 2008 - 20:43 ET by Del DolemonteMy Dad served as Executive Officer on a vessel under one of the leading Swifties. He doesn't have a dishonest bone in his body.
Please try again.
Leon, you've made a claim,
January 25, 2008 - 22:23 ET by MikeBLeon, you've made a claim, now back it up. If you can (which you can't) you'll get a million dollar check from Pickens.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Christmas in Cambodia
January 25, 2008 - 17:58 ET by LionKingJK remembers it well. Kind a like Al Gore's mommy singing the Union Label song to him as a lullaby.
Kerry gamed the military system and got away with it.
January 25, 2008 - 18:27 ET by IamTinmanI'm guessing there was no problem giving him the purple hearts just to get him out of the country. If I was his Commanding Officer I would have in a heartbeat.
John Kerry is an empty suit and he has to live with knowing how worthless he is.
What we Viet Nam vets, our families, and our nation have had to live with is the memory of the litany of lies put forth by Kerry and the VVAW after he took the legal but dishonorable way out of the war! And that the media and the politicians let them get away with disrespecting Americas soldiers who risked their lives for their country. In previous wars Kerry would still be rotting in jail for treason.
Please if you meet a returning vet shake his or her hand and say "thank you". If you meet or know a Vietnam vet give them a hug and say "Thank you for your service, Welcome Home" They deserve it!
You Missed the Rebuttal
January 25, 2008 - 21:02 ET by Del Dolemontehttp://www.opinionjo...
excerpts
"A turning point may have been reached in the Iowa caucuses when Special Forces Lt. James Rassmann came forward to thank John Kerry for saving his life in Vietnam. Although Mr. Rassmann, like most of my veteran friends, is a Republican, he said that he'd vote for Mr. Kerry. I don't know if the incident influenced the caucus results. But I took special interest in the story because Jim served in my unit."
"I'm not surprised that there are veterans who support a VVAW activist, if only because there are so few fellow veterans in politics. Ideally, there'd be many more. If you are going to vote on military appropriations, it would be nice if you didn't disrespect the soldiers."
Tim, Please. Swift Boat
January 25, 2008 - 17:52 ET by LeonTim,
Please. Swift Boat veterans were a bunch of liars put together by Spaeth communications to discredit a true veteran so that a fake veteran could become President.
They were successful in smearing McCain in 2000 and they were successful in smearing Kerry in 2004.
As
1.) Please prove that the
January 25, 2008 - 18:11 ET by BD1.) Please prove that the 250 veterans who banded together under that banner were not members of Swift Boat crews.
2.) Please prove that they did not have the opinions that they expressed about JF Kerry.
3.) Please express the criteria by which membership in the Guard and Reserve qualfies one as a "Fake Veteran".
If you wish, we can also discuss his testimony before congress and at the Winter Soldier convocation.
Leon will have to eat his own words...again
January 25, 2008 - 18:16 ET by LionKingBD:
Simple. An opinion
Leon's whole statement is based on lies. Therefore by his own words, he is lying. A person that lies is by definiton...a liar.