Yahoo! users found a Democratic gaffe at the top of the page on Saturday: "Fans are angry after a congressman instructs aides to get inoculated before a trip to a NASCAR race." Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, advised aides to get their shots against several communicable diseases — including hepatitis, diphtheria, tetanus and influenza -- before visiting race tracks in North Carolina and Alabama. (Fox News has the story, and MSNBC’s Mike Viqueira offers some defensive skepticism at the First Read blog). Yahoo featured sports columnist Jerry Bonkowski, who was definitely offended:
NASCAR fans have been criticized for a number of things over the years, ranging from perpetuating a redneck stereotype to still showing pride in the Rebel Flag.
Now, as one Mississippi congressman would have you believe, NASCAR fans are also a threat to national security and the nation's health.
Yes, you, Bubba. You, too, Bobbie Sue. Y'all got the cooties.
That's what Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, would have you believe.
The seven-term Congressman recently instructed committee aides who visited Talladega Superspeedway last weekend and are also at this weekend's Nextel Cup race at Lowe's Motor Speedway to be immunized against a variety of diseases such as hepatitis A, hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus and influenza.
Officially, the action was supposedly part of a broader review of federal response to massive emergencies at a large, crowded venue like Lowe's Motor Speedway.
Unofficially, Thompson unquestionably must think of NASCAR fans as a bunch of sickos – and not in a good way.
The hue and outcry resulting from Thompson's actions have become nothing short of a political embarrassment.
However, I admit Thompson did get me a bit suspicious at first. When I first heard the news, I immediately reflected back to one of NASCAR's biggest marketing campaigns in recent years: NASCAR – How bad have YOU got it?
By Thompson's standards, you've not only got it bad – but you're also a walking, talking, fire-breathing, beer-drinking, tobacco-spittin', cussin' and cheerin' sumbitch who is carrying enough pestilence and pathos to bring the good, old U.S. of A to its knees.
You would think that a veteran Congressman – and from a state that has a huge NASCAR fan base – would be a bit savvier when it comes to messin' with the go straight and turn left crowd.
Instead, Thompson paints a picture of folks, who come to races from New Hampshire to southern California, as potentially carrying more communicable diseases than folks in a third-world country.
As can be expected, others countered that Thompson's edict was more liberal Democratic "the-sky-is-falling" hysteria mongering. Even members of his own party have to be wondering, "What is this guy thinking?"
Thompson would have been smart if he had laughed things off when the relatively silent instruction for staffers to get their shots suddenly became national news. Instead, he kept digging himself a deeper hole – and I'm betting especially so with Mississippi voters who just happen to be NASCAR fans.
When he appeared in a debate with Rep. Robin Hayes (R-N.C.) on CNN, Thompson told Hayes he "ought to be ashamed" for criticizing efforts to protect the committee's staffers.
Hayes deadpanned – and good for him in doing so – "We got our shots when we were born."
What's next? Ostracizing NASCAR fans like smokers? Is being a racing fan suddenly akin to being a leper?
It will be interesting to see if NBC anchor Brian Williams, who's regularly touted as a NASCAR fan, gets around to this story.
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center
Comments Policy
I watched Bennie Thompson
October 13, 2007 - 07:50 ET by Gat New YorkI watched Bennie Thompson aggressively trying to rationalize or explain these vaccinations. He looked like a very ignorant and angry man. THIS is who is the head of the homeland security committee in Congress. It is bad enough that ignorant people get elected to any office and would have hoped that the Democrats could have selected someone with Peter King's intelligence to head the committee when they took office.
NASCAR is today's most viewed and fastest growing sport. Just look at the rapid growth in sponsorships and who those sponsors are. To treat these fans as dumb rednecks like Thompson is doing is a mistake if you are a Democrat (it's great for us though).
I came here this morning,
October 13, 2007 - 07:51 ET by WhichWingI came here this morning, ready to join in the fight against liberal media bias. Instead, you post this. Or is there a liberal media bias angle I'm not seeing?
I fear our leaders have failed us this time.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
the lack of MSM
October 13, 2007 - 11:44 ET by TruthMongerthe lack of MSM condemnation ala Rush is the bias
as if you'd actually admit that anyway
A service of the new NB respect police
winger
October 13, 2007 - 11:47 ET by botgI fear our leaders have failed us this time.
how? were there no talking points at Kos for this issue?
"Television is where you watch people in your living room that you would not want near your house." Groucho
All along, I thought you
October 15, 2007 - 20:48 ET by Roger the ShrubberAll along, I thought you came here to look like an ass.
Come to a thread where Democrat(ic)s look like idiots and then defend them. Interesting tactic.
Shrub
October 15, 2007 - 20:58 ET by BlondeThat didn't work out so well, eh?
LOL.
Wow, I am shaking my head. Like the hyena tried to change its spots....oops...that didn't work....hmmm....next?
Seriously....libs in the land of Oz. Wow. Double Wow. Like that!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I would be more worried
October 13, 2007 - 08:37 ET by ricklailI would be more worried that I would catch something from the Congresscriters epecially if they came from the left coast. They are going to be exposed to a prayer in the name of Jesus. They will also be exposed to southern values along with a love of God and country. Let's just hope that they catch that. Maybe some good ole boy will spit bacca juice on them.
What gets me is that Mel Watts, whose district borders the area, has been silent. Rep. Robin Hayes in whose district the track stands has been very vocal. Do you want to guess what Watts is?
Southern by birth, Tarheel by the grace of God!
Billy Bob! I done toad
October 13, 2007 - 09:21 ET by rimskyBilly Bob! I done toad yew, git away from dat bow-tied critter, else yew git ever whats makin' him look.. suh all-fired... 'portant!!
excuse me waitress - i
October 13, 2007 - 11:39 ET by TruthMongerexcuse me waitress - i speak jive
where's popular tech? disease shots needed to attend a NASCAR event? now that's true bigotry:)
A service of the new NB respect police
I find it insulting as well.......
October 13, 2007 - 12:26 ET by BrillianceMaybe national 5th and 6th graders should be required to take "stupid" vaccinations before they embark on the "washington trip".
Know what I mean?
I'm just waiting for Al Gore
October 13, 2007 - 09:22 ET by ammo johnI'm just waiting for Al Gore to condemn NASCAR because it uses a lot of fuel, cars have no smog equipment, 100,000 fans are spewing massive amounts of CO2, etc, etc. I'm sure his 'fans' in Bristol, TN just can't wait to have their track shut down.
Ammo John
October 13, 2007 - 14:55 ET by ricklailThe Busch Series runs at Nashville Speedway too, right in his back yard. If he wants a fight, just try and take on the NASCAR fans.
There will be about closer to 200,000 at the race tonight.
Southern by birth, Tarheel by the grace of God!
so where is the outrage, he really hates the private sector
October 13, 2007 - 09:26 ET by lunaticcringeradiowhy isn't he being fired like imus(i know he's elected), why isn't he being hassled like bill oreilly, why? in todays society it's ok to make a prejudicial comment against a group of people, it's ok to make racially stereotyping and disparaging comments against white folks, because he's a democrat and black. democrats and black democrats especially get a free pass on stereotyping and racial comments.
i don't want the guy fired, i don't want him shut up, the wonderful thing about free speech is that it allows idiots to show their true colors. this guy has a resentment against people that go to nascar races(pssst there are many more black faces i see at the track each time i go), he has built up stereotypes in his mind and expressed his prejudice, but more than the obvious ones.
his biggest resentment to the investigators going to talladega is that they were studying the private sector, a private sector that trumps big government.
yes once again the private sector has shown that it can manage a situation better than all mighty government and this is what this guy is really mad about, but he let his "emotions" overtake his reason(like most democrats do) and his anger let his racial feelings slip out. his anger was at the private sector showing up big government and that's something no liberal democrat can stand.
the whole point was to go down to talladega and observe how the owners and managers work with the state and local police on moving such a large number of people out of that area so quickly.
if you are unfamiliar with talladega that's ok, i know about every rock, pebble, and blade of grass since i've been there almost 30 times. the place is huge, i think the last count was 270,000 seats, not to mention all the infield cars and winnabagos and campers, it will hold about 8 to 10 football stadiums in the track itself, the grounds themself are probably equal to atlanta international airport. the place is huge, google map the thing you'll see, it was built over an old army air field.
the thing that just causes the "big one"(a nascar term at talladega) in Rep. Bennie Thompsons mind is that the here is another example of privatization that works and big government that doesn't get it and that's why he is mad. so since the big government was made to look silly, as it should be, by going to a private venue to learn a few tricks to assist the public when a future catastrophe most likely terrorist related event happens "mr nascar has cooties" would rather big government not learn from the finest example out there. he would rather that in the next catastrophe that people only work off big governments template. which would be a bunch of ignorant asses just like him sitting in a committee coming up with stooopid ideas instead of actually learning from things in real life and in doing so finding some way to waste our taxes at the same time and ultimately causing more loss of life because their big government committees are useless. he would rather people die than big government learn from the private sector. he would rather people die that big government look bad. pssst hurricane katrina already did that. he doesn't hate nascar, he doesn't hate white folks, he hates the idea of individual freedom and less government intruding into everyones lives, and when the big government goes to the public to learn it's showing how irrelevant and out of touch big government is.
lunaticcringeradio
Mask and Gloves
October 13, 2007 - 10:10 ET by ThisnThatToo bad Rep. Robin Hayes didn't show up on CNN in a mask and gloves to debate Thompson. Now that would have been theater.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
By Thompson's standards,
October 13, 2007 - 10:47 ET by JasonCBy Thompson's standards, you've not only got it bad – but you're also a
walking, talking, fire-breathing, beer-drinking, tobacco-spittin',
cussin' and cheerin' sumbitch who is carrying enough pestilence and
pathos to bring the good, old U.S. of A to its knees.
Of course, he said nothing of the sort. You and NASCAR's brain trust are projecting this upon him. I would imagine he'd have said the same thing to his staffers if they were, for some reason, going to a rock concert or state fair or anywhere else known for substandard hygiene and huge crowds.
Thompson would have been smart if he had laughed things off when the
relatively silent instruction for staffers to get their shots suddenly
became national news. Instead, he kept digging himself a deeper hole –
and I'm betting especially so with Mississippi voters who just happen
to be NASCAR fans.
Of course some people will base their vote on this "gaffe." And those people will prove they are as smart as this guy
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
I have to agree with Jason here
October 13, 2007 - 11:02 ET by Dee BunkThere is nothing wrong with wanting to get shots before being with large crowds.
This over-reaction is not nearly as bad as the purposeful attacks on Limbaugh and O'Reilly with knowingly out of context comments. I'm sure those two bothered you also right Jason?
Limbaugh's was indeed out
October 13, 2007 - 11:07 ET by JasonCLimbaugh's was indeed out of context. I'm sorry to say, for once, Limbaugh was not being the a$$hole he was characterized as. The O'Reilly thing is trickier. I think his statement could be read as the compliment he meant it as or as a really twisted, backhanded, unconsciously-meant insult. When that controversy happened, I was just kind of like "ooh, not good." My wife was appalled by it. I didn't really cheer all the hubbub about it, but at the same time it was frankly hilarious to watch Bill act all wounded about the smearing. He is the quintessential "Can dish it out but can't take it" crybaby. He attacks people, as he would say, "all day long" for impolitic remarks.
Regardless, either way, I was as opposed to the waste of legislative time spent condemning Rush as I was to the waste of legislative time/Democratic Inquisition concerning MoveOn the week prior.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Okay here we disagree - O'Reilly doesn't take out of context
October 13, 2007 - 11:35 ET by Dee Bunkout of context comments without allowing people to explain them. I don't know of anytime he's ever called somone a racist. It's usually the racists who do that.
Of course the legislative condemnation of MoveOn was over the top, but the public condemnation wasn't and it's horrible that Democratic senators wouldn't do it for an actual in context statement that was purposefully hateful but then jumped to do it for an extremely out of context comment on the same subject. The Republican legislative act was at least based on the truth. The Democrats drafted theirs knowing it was based on a lie. That is despicable. And they did it to an individual, not a political group. That is rotten and downright evil to the core.
What Moveon said was outrageous and that the New York Times gave them a discount to say it proves that they are a radical left wing advocacy paper, not an impartial news source.
We disagree on all
October 13, 2007 - 11:37 ET by JasonCWe disagree on all fundamental points here, but I have written on and argued about them extensively in weeks past and haven't the energy to really go into it guns blazing again. Besides, I know you're a bright and respectful poster, so you can most likely anticipate my counter-argument to each point.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
we got it loud and clear -
October 13, 2007 - 11:42 ET by TruthMongerwe got it loud and clear - when liberals are racist and bigots - it's no big deal
we wouldn't want to "target the hypocracy" now would we
unless it's a Republican senator in some public bathroom somewhere touching someone elses shoe of course
A service of the new NB respect police
Okay so I'm bright - we agree on something again ; ) BUT
October 13, 2007 - 11:50 ET by Dee Bunkflattery doesn't change the fact that there are no good arguments to the contrary. It's okay though, I know defending liberals can be exhausting so I forgive you : )
The bias-point in all this for me
October 13, 2007 - 12:12 ET by sarcasmoWas the differing reactions in the media to O'Reilly (a buffoon, but IMO not a racist buffoon) and Olbermann's "waffle" comment -- which was if anything more-questionable, yet essentially ignored but for places on the 'net like this blog.
Why was one buffoon's comment given so much more ink than the other buffoon's comment? THAT is the bias, and it was one of those rare perfect-examples we get because it happened at almost the same time. (And yes, I also agree that Dee is bright.)
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
Thanks! Now my head is really going to swell Sarc
October 13, 2007 - 12:32 ET by Dee BunkYou are hysterical; I love the way you say that O'Reilly is a buffoon, just not a racist buffoon. Agreed! I didn't even hear about the waffle comment so it must have happened on a day when I wasn't here.
And in addition to the fact of more ink that you mention, shouldn't a non-bias media give a person the chance to respond to an accusation? No one interviewed O'Reilly or Limbaugh or got statements of clarification. They just ran with hit pieces from a political group. They are worse than the tabloids in these instances. Zero professionalism and 100% activism.
God forgive me...
October 13, 2007 - 11:11 ET by dervishfor defending a Democrat from Mississippi, but this issue is turning into our version of the Limbaugh flapdoodle. (Although, notably, it hasn't yet reached the floor of the Senate.)
The aides in question are being sent to visit health-care facilities in and around the NASCAR stadium, they're not going to watch the race. The vaccines in question are routine ones for diseases that are readily transmissible anywhere in the US, and are recommended for everyone. They're usually required for workers in health-care facilities, because that's where you find sick people. The aides are probably typical Washington yuppies -- haven't gotten immunized against anything since junior high school and haven't done time in the military, where again, everyone gets these vaccines whether or not they go to NASCAR races.
This was maybe overkill, but the principles are sound. Give the guy a break.
Addendum: Jason posted while I was composing. I wish I'd have waited to let him take the heat.
What heat? I think we
October 13, 2007 - 11:14 ET by JasonCWhat heat? I think we agree.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Yeah,
October 13, 2007 - 11:29 ET by dervish.. you and I agree (on this issue, anyway). But quite a few others don't, and I'd rather they be offended at you than at me.
:)
They should look at it this
October 13, 2007 - 11:35 ET by JasonCThey should look at it this way. Suppose a Republican politician had his staff attending a rock concert in Connecticut. He privately asks the staffers to get their immunizations up-to-date before they go, probably because of the liability to himself. Somehow, a liberal blog gets ahold of this and writes "Repub congressman thinks hard-working rock 'n roll fans in New England are nothing but a bunch of diseased, drooling, drug-addled, troglodytic morons." Liberal-blog readers eat this up.
Pretty dumb right?
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
We don't have to suppose - this stuff happens all the time to Re
October 13, 2007 - 11:38 ET by Dee BunkWe don't have to suppose - this stuff happens all the time to Republicans and if it doesn't stop, they have little choice but to fight fire with fire.
at least they need real
October 13, 2007 - 11:47 ET by TruthMongerat least they need real live incidents now
they used to just make stuff like that up
that was B.N.B. of course
A service of the new NB respect police
Absolutely.
October 13, 2007 - 11:41 ET by dervish(Assuming the theoretical staff's visit had the same purpose as the one headed to NASCAR.)
Again, I agree with you on this one. The statement about letting YOU take the heat for it was meant as a joke.
dervish,
October 13, 2007 - 11:35 ET by Dave RThe aides in question are being sent to visit health-care facilities in and around the NASCAR stadium, they're not going to watch the race.
Then Rep. Bennie Thompson (Dumb*ss-Miss.) should have pointed this out up front. Of course, had he done do, my first question would have been "Why are my tax dollars being used to send congress-critters staffers to "inspect" healthcare facilities around a track while there just happens to be a race going on?"
And I'm not buying the line that his aides are planning to be at a track during a NASCAR event and not watch the race.
Nobody does that. Nobody.
Besides, the one place you have to worry about cooties is when visiting the House and Senate chambers. There are enough cooties there to wipe out most of the U.S. population.
When I'm president, privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to anything.-Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.
Besides the exhorbitant
October 13, 2007 - 11:40 ET by JasonCBesides the exhorbitant admission fee, requisite cheaply-made souvenirs, and the pleasure of the fans' company, how is a NASCAR event any different from being stuck in traffic at a rotary near the interstate on-ramp?
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Dave --
October 13, 2007 - 11:49 ET by dervishI never said that Bennie was smart, just that he was right. This whole immunization idea probably wasn't even his in the first place, and I doubt he really understands it if he let Rep. Hayes get by with that "We got our shots when we were born" comment without challenging it.
The point of going to the race, as I understand it, was to study the readiness of a mass-casualty response at an event attended by a large number of people. Why they chose this race instead of, say, the World Series, I don't know. Maybe it had to do with the number of people in attendance.
Personally, if I were going on this trip, I'd hang out in the first-aid tent with a book, but that's just me. (I don't care for polo or jai-alai, either.) But I meant that watching the race and hanging out with the fans wasn't the objective of the aides' visit.
dervish & Jason C, LMAO
October 13, 2007 - 11:56 ET by Dave RDon't you think this is just a little suspicious?
I mean, this would be like a congress critter sending his/her staff out (on the public dime) to study the arm-movements of NFL officials.
During the Super Bowl.
When I'm president, privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to anything.-Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.
Come on, now --
October 13, 2007 - 12:02 ET by dervishYou don't think that preparedness for an attack by -- oh, say, some vicious Middle-Eastern faction wanting to kill as many Americans as possible -- is worth study?
If Thompson's on the Homeland Security committee, it seems like an almost reasonable boondoggle, as opposed to the usual trips to study coldness of the ice in Jamaican beach drinks, or the size of icebergs in Alaska at the height of summer, or...
dervish,
October 13, 2007 - 12:24 ET by Dave RYou know, if the guy was a member of a political party that actually cared about national security, I might just buy it.
When I'm president, privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to anything.-Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.
Ouch.
October 13, 2007 - 14:23 ET by dervishPoint conceded. God only knows what sort of legislation is cooking, or -- who knows? Maybe the aides in question really are NASCAR fans and this is just a smokescreen for another boondoggle.
But the principles remain. Terrorism needs to be taken seriously, and adults need immunization against common infections, ESPECIALLY if they're going to be working around sick people.
Blind pigs sometimes find acorns.
i'm not going to give the guy a break dervish
October 13, 2007 - 14:01 ET by lunaticcringeradioi could care less about his stereotyped, prejudiced, possible racist comments, he has all the right in the world to his preferences.
what i have a problem with is that he is an elected official who is in a position of power and he hates the free market or private sector showing up big government in the way it handles a future situation and he can't get away with condemning the private sector directly so instead he lashes out childishly at the public he was elected to protect. i know talladega isn't miss, but the big picture is they were there to get pointers on how to handle large masses of people in a crisis situation, but since big government had to lean on the private sector he is pissed because it shows how useless and incompetant big government is.
i'm not cutting him any breaks, he's an elitest socialist liberal who values big government more than peoples safety. since he is a liberal that means he's suppose to be more caring, compassionate, tollerant, and openminded, liberals always tell you they are, and look at this fine example they have in place supporting all those attributes. he would rather be closeminded and have people possibly die during the next catostrophic event than to gracefully accept input from the private sector.
his ideas and bigoted name callings proves how liberals care more about their big government than the safety of the public.
lunaticcringeradio
Huh?
October 13, 2007 - 14:32 ET by dervishAre you still talking about NASCAR, or has Thompson said other "possible racist" things? I confess to not knowing who he was until this came up.
As far as I know, he or someone in his office recommended that, before they go hang around clinics and such in association with this NASCAR event, his aides get their immunizations updated. And as far as I know, the motives for that recommendation have all been pinned on him.
i made my point pretty clear
October 14, 2007 - 01:56 ET by lunaticcringeradioi have no idea how you couldn't follow it. also since you don't know the story, he said it. i don't care if he's racist, that's his right. i'mnot complaining about his comments being racist, or stereotyping, or prejudicial, i'm complaining about how he is a liberal and those reasons are more disturbing than any of the afore mentioned conditions of his comments.
so before you start saying you're going to defend someone i suggest to follow up on the story. and you completely got the quote wrong too. his own words are what are coming back on him and that's why i wont let up on the poor guy cause you feel a litl sorry for him.
lunaticcringeradio
Dude --
October 14, 2007 - 12:07 ET by dervishif there ever was an apt nickname on this thread, you got it.
Please take pity on us poor ignorant fools and at least give me a link as to the racist, stereotyping things he said. I'm not trying to defend them, I'm just unaware of them. WHAT did he say? I looked at several articles after your post and all I could find was an abbreviated version of his dust-up with Rep. Hayes, in which, quite honestly, they both seemed a bit ill-informed.
I don't feel sorry for this clown. But Democrats do enough stupid and/or evil and/or treasonous stuff that I don't think we need to invent anything for them. And I'm not defending Thompson, just the idea that yuppies off to play amongst sick people ought to get vaccinated first.
Immunization Facts
October 13, 2007 - 16:15 ET by stratmanUnless there is endemic disease or an outbreak of disease in the area or areas the government officials are visiting, then there is no absolute reason to get the aforementioned vaccines/immunizations for this specific trip particularly if their activites do not place them in "harm's way" with direct contact of infected materials.
Have any of you been told to get your immunizations up to date before visiting a friend or relative in the hospital in the USA? In specific instances you would not be allowed unprotected access to a sick patient if you were not properly immunized, such as with pertussis, AKA whooping cough. Just walking through an area which has patients sick with Tetanus or Hepatitis A or B will not get you infected.
If the government officials will be actively touching the patients or or exposed to the patient's blood and bodily fluids then certain immunizations would be beneficial. If there is zero contact anticipated then nothing further needs be done manditorily.
On the other hand, the injections Thompson advocated are the same ones advocated for all people, with the possible exception of Hepatitis A in adults. (See here for a listing of immunizations, their schedules and clickable PDF links to easy to understand information about each vaccine. For more detail see here.)
Another thing to consider is the timeframe in which one must receive all pertinent scheduled injections prior to the time the patient actually has built antibodies to the potential infection as is considered "immune". For instance, Hepatitis B requires typically 3 injections before immunity is acheived - one today, one in one month from today and one in six months from today. Did Mr. Thompson tell his officials to get the shots well ahead of the trip in order for them to be completely immunized?
The Hepatitis A vaccine is a 2 shot schedule requiring at least 6 months between injections. Tetanus and Diptheria are typically given as a combination shot - "Td" - and is colloquially known as a "Booster" injection that people receive at least every 10 years (sooner in some cases such as if the person can not remember the date of the last Td injection.). If an adult has never had a Tetanus shot before, then a single "Tdap" injection (not to be confused with the childhood DTaP for children) or a 3-shot "Td" injection series is required to build immunity. Did Mr. Thompson give plenty of time for all series of injections to be given before ordering his charges into the relatively disease-free first-world land of Alabama and North Carolina?
I think it is part of Mr. Thompson's fiduciary responsibility as head of House Homeland Security Committee that his office would instruct/advocate all of these immunizations to all people of the USA. But the timing and event association (NASCAR and The South) leaves me questioning some of his reasoning. His follow-up replies upon further questioning also leaves me questioning about his competance and/or motives.
I would want to know if Thompson makes this request of all his staff before every official visit outside his base of operation. If so then I would think he is just being a conscientious leader who cares for the health of his team. If not, then I think him crass and demeaning.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Well,
October 14, 2007 - 12:17 ET by dervishthat immunization schedule is the one for children, which doesn't really apply to this argument directly. More to the point is this article, which discusses recommended vaccinations for health-care workers. Because of their increased risk of exposure, they're recommended to get vaccinated routinely, outbreaks or no.
Now, looking at those, it's obvious that someone in Thompson's office is free-styling, because to be complete they'd need a booster of MMR and chickenpox vaccine and the meningococcal vaccine. And hepatitis A vaccine isn't recommended (which is a surprise to me, but there you have it).
All of this, as you sort of point out, is predicated on what the aides' level of exposure will be. If they're only walking through the facilities and looking at patients from across the room, then this is overkill. If they're actually going to be in contact with patients, though -- helping carry them, riding shotgun on an ambulance, etc. - these vaccines are not a bad idea. Necessary, maybe not. But then fire insurance is only really necessary after you have a fire.
The second link I provided
October 14, 2007 - 16:17 ET by stratmanThe second link I provided includes the healthcare worker recommendations. I would have used that as a primary link except for the fact that it is bulky. The first link I provided does indeed list childhood immunizations schedules, but, as I said in the text, there are clickable PDF links for each immunization which provide an easy read on the immunization including recommendations for adults. It surely is an easier read for laypeople than the one you discussed in duplicate.
I don't know what you mean by "sort of point out". Exactly how more specific was necessary for this discussion? You appear to duplicate what I had already said. My post dealt directly with the specifics of what, alledgedly, were Thompson's office recommendations, not a complete discussion of all immunizations and specific situations concerning vaccines and adults.
I do like your comment about "free-styling" though. We can not be sure of precisely what Thompson's office actually advised since it is filtered through a "journalist". Who did more "free-styling" - Thompson's office, the "leaker", the reporter or the editor - we may never know.
The governement officials have never been described as "healthcare workers" but would presumably be "adults" and thus the Adult recommendations (as provided in my second link in the original post) would most likely be applicable. For completeness, I will consider the government officials as "health care workers" where applicable in vaccine guidelines.
I highly doubt that Thompson's employee's will be practicing medicine in two different States (Alabama and North Carolina) as there are regulatory and licensing issues that would require not only approved training and testing but also time in order to be a legal provider. There is no mention of VA hospitals/clinics, CDC operations or Homeland Security crises which would obviate the need for individual State licensures.
As to what immunizations would or should be required of adults from your post, Meningococcal vaccine would probably not be required of the government officials as well as most adults in the USA. As can be found in the second link from my original post (N.B. - The following all excerpted from the specific link(s). Please see link(s) for full explanations.):
Varicella vaccine, to prevent Chicken Pox and/or Shingles (Herpes Zoster), is given to adults and healthcare workers if current immunity can not be verified. A blood test will determine immunity and the requirement for further immunization. As such, most adult US citizens will not require further VZ vaccine:
MMR vaccine (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) is given to adults (including health care workers) who cannot provide proof of immunity available via several mechanisms:
Complete information concerning child, adult, health care worker, etc. vaccinations can be gleaned from the two links in my original post.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Thompson's base
October 13, 2007 - 11:21 ET by Vivian Lee"and I'm betting especially so with Mississippi voters who just happen to be NASCAR fans"
That's a joke. Thompson's congressional district is gerrymandered. It's doubtful he will see any backlash from Mississippians on this - at least not from any of HIS voters.
ConservativeBelle
http://conservativebelle.blogspot.com
Again, I'm sorry, but
October 13, 2007 - 11:25 ET by JasonCAgain, I'm sorry, but anyone who actually bases their vote on this incredible non-issue of a "gaffe" must have been guzzlin' too much Beam and inhaling too many fumes from them cars what go 'round the track all fast like.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
Jason, Most of the people
October 13, 2007 - 11:38 ET by Vivian LeeJason,
Most of the people who live in his district either support him passionately or loathe him, regardless of any kind of alleged gaffes about NASCAR. You missed my point completely. He won't hear about it at all.
The people who vote him in office are primarily people in the Delta living in poverty. His district is one of the poorest in the nation. They aren't voting for him because he is pro-innoculation at NASCAR events and no one will vote against him BECAUSE of that.
ConservativeBelle
http://conservativebelle.blogspot.com
Right-o, I was reacting to
October 13, 2007 - 11:41 ET by JasonCRight-o, I was reacting to the same original remark that you were.
"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors." -Emily Bronte
remember Lott's "gaffe" at
October 13, 2007 - 11:49 ET by TruthMongerremember Lott's "gaffe" at Thurmond's birthday?
course they were Republicans - second-class MSM citizens - therefore standard #2 applied
A service of the new NB respect police
What popping up in the MSM
October 13, 2007 - 14:30 ET by Right2thePointWhat popping up in the MSM now is it wasn't about NASCAR at all, they are saying they were also going to tour a number of healthcare facilities that made the immunizations prudent.
For that to hold as a valid position, two things would have to occur.
1) did the shots occur far enough in advance to become medically effective
2) how many different shots were used to cover a range of issues
Ask any military who have deployed how many this can be.
If the military
October 13, 2007 - 15:02 ET by dervishdeploys to Talladega, they're covered after the first day in basic training. Other parts of the world require other shots. And that's the point I'm trying to make: all of those immunizations are worthwhile for everyone. Diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, influenza, and hepatitis A and B are for-real threats right here in the US, Boston as well as Bristol.
Basic trainees aren't immunized to protect them from whoever they might meet on a foreign field someday, they're immunized to protect them from other trainees. That isn't meant as judgment on the background of the trainees, it's just sound public health policy.
Military personnel require
October 13, 2007 - 15:44 ET by stratmanMilitary personnel require those immunizations foremost because they are highly likely to be exposed to infectious agents in the course of their duties, not to mention that every sick soldier represents a diminishment in force strength which could result in further casualties in times of battle (one less soldier means one less weapon capable of stopping an enemy).
A government official walking through a medical facility in the USA is unlikely to become infected by anything unless they are already immunocompromised or a bizarre event occurred.
It is wise to get one's immunizations up to date to prevent the unknown, but, it is not absolutely necessary for a trip to Alabama and North Carolina where no endemic disease or outbreak is occuring.
See my post above for more.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
strat
October 13, 2007 - 15:54 ET by BlondeMilitary personnel requirements....oh how that is annoying, on so many levels.
The mil members must go through endless 'crat nonsense...as part & parcel of their daily lives. And they put up with it all...with great humour, I might add....to go fight and protect us. Hello America!!!!
The only thing I wish they'd know....is that I will absolutely support them, in whatever small and inept way I can....need cookies? DVD's? Whatever.
As for the Congresscritters & trolls....a pox on all of your families for being so stupidly set apart and "elite". I hate your asses. Each and every one of you. Particularly you, Nancy. And you too, Hillary.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Read and agree,
October 13, 2007 - 16:11 ET by stratmanRead and agree, Blonde.
BTW, I got your reading recommendation Charlotte's Story from the public library. They had to obtain it from a neighboring state, all free of charge, which still kind of blows my mind how great the system works! My mother really enjoyed the book and could identify with some of the events having grown up partially in Florida, though not in the Everglades, and the tough life it was back then. Thanks for the recommendation.
I just picked up The Mercury 13: The Untold Story Of Thirteen American Women And The Dream Of Space Flight by Martha Ackmann. So far so good.
Happy football trails!
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Hey strat!
October 13, 2007 - 16:18 ET by BlondeI am supremely delighted that your mom read it...did you?
Everyone I've ever known who read that book was blown away by it.
Maybe we should take this over to the old forum topic....but books....like truly held political beliefs, are very, very good things!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Didn't want to hijack the
October 13, 2007 - 16:52 ET by stratmanDidn't want to hijack the thread but figured you would check back.
I didn't read the book. Didn't seem like my cup of tea. I knew my mother would enjoy the book and she did.
Your recommendations will be respected.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Yes,
October 14, 2007 - 12:28 ET by dervishpreservation of the fighting strength is what it's all about. But the exposure risk of a basic trainee is other basic trainees -- disease outbreaks in boot camps are well known. That's why they're immunized at about the time of their first haircut -- not so much against the exotic diseases of other countries, but the serious ones here right in the USA -- whooping cough, measles, hepatitis, etc. A Brooklyn Yankee is as likely to bring those into camp as a good ol' boy from Mobile, so EVERYbody gets vaccinated, no questions asked about politics or place of birth.
The point about exposure is a reasonable one -- if they're just doing walkthroughs, these vaccines are overkill. If they're paranoid about it, a mask and gloves would be cheaper. I made the assumption that they were potentially going to have actual contact with actual sick people. If not, then this is certainly overdoing it -- but it bespeaks more a paranoia about being around sick people than being around NASCAR fans per se.
Most patients in a
October 14, 2007 - 16:51 ET by stratmanMost patients in a hospital, urgent care or NASCAR field hospital do not require health care workers wear mask and/or gloves prior to contact. Universal precautions should always be followed, of course. A thorough hand washing is paramount for these visiting officials (everyone!) unless otherwise determined by the local medical personnel.
I do not find it paranoia for people to have their immunizations up to date. In my opinion, this message should be on Public Service Announcements as part of protecting the populace. It's that important.
Do we know the real context that Thompson's office advised it's employee's or consultant's regarding immunizations? Is this a general order for all involved with Homeland Security and Thompson was reinforcing his already-in-place guidelines to a group that just happened to be about to perform an evaluation of medical facilities?
I don't trust the veracity of MSM or politicians, especially today's crop of Democrats and advocacy journalists. The details of this immunization kerfluffle seem incomplete to me. I wonder if we will ever know all the specifics in order to make a reasoned conclusion. At least it has provided a venue to discuss immunizations which, hopefully, will enhance vaccination rates in our population to promote health and well being in the USA.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Seems like it's just you and me left standing,
October 14, 2007 - 19:01 ET by dervishbut: I agree that the recommended vaccines are probably overkill. My point
was simply that, rather than worrying about catching cooties from
NASCAR fans in particular, Thompson's people are worrying about catching them from sick
people in general. Whether or not they need to worry is a very debatable point --
probably not. As far as the context of this idea, I don't know either but I'm willing
to believe that this recommendation was made up off-the-cuff by someone
in Thompson's retinue: "Ooh, you're going to medical facilities? Don't you know you should have..."
Of course routine immunizations are not a
sign of paranoia. But these guys getting a big set of them, in anticipation
of simply going into a tent that might or might not contain anyone
sick, seems to qualify. But their paranoia in that case would be as
easily addressed by the gloves and mask, which (although also
unnecessary) would be much cheaper and involve less risk.
I'm with
you -- vaccinations are what I do. I just think this episode has all
the hallmarks of a bureaucratic snafu and was never intended to be a
personal insult to the millions of NASCAR fans out there. This is the perfect time to invoke dscott's "Hanlon's Razor": Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I would hope anyone
October 15, 2007 - 01:46 ET by stratmanI would hope anyone employed by Homeland Security would by requirement have their immunizations currently up to date at least shortly after employment. It is odd that Thompson would advise his subordinates to get immunizations so close to the proximate time of the trip. Maybe they were new employees or office guidelines had recently changed. Stupidity and/or incompetence do come to mind in this situation as possibilities as you suggested. Malice of forethought or bigotry have yet to be proven.
As there is zero traction in the MSM, this story will fade faster than John Edwards behind his wife's skirt when Ann Coulter appears in the vicinity.
Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.
Fox News is running a story
October 13, 2007 - 17:15 ET by Gary P JacksonFox News is running a story on this about every 30 minutes or so! Of course Fox broadcasts part of the races, and has a warm up show on SPEED, a Fox owned network.
I was glad to hear the Republican staffers refused the vaccinations. But anybody who thinks this wasn't at least the Congressman's stupidity, and at most outright bigotry, is wrong.
He tried to cover himself by saying the team would be visiting "medical facilities" trying to make it sound like they were going into hospitals or clinics. Not true. They will be going into the Lowes Motor Speedway emergency units set up at the track in case something happens to a driver, or one of the fans need urgent care.
This was nothing more than liberal elitism, and the fear of the "great unwashed"!