When are you "anti-war" types ever going to accept reality?

The truth is that human history has proven one thing: That war or the threat of war is the only thing that gets results.

As much as you want to sit down and "negotiate" a peacefull solution with fanatics, the fact remains, that a position of power is the ONLY thing that eventually brings peace. Didn't you have history classes in our splendid "free" education system?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

You're the one doing that.

Did I say "because I say so."? Nope.  But YOU said you'll never change your mind...so, it appears that you're the one who is not really interested in the exchange of ideas.

All I did was express my opinion that these people are anti-American, which I backed up with facts (such as Saddamned being ousted). 

There are legitimate reasons to oppose the war, but the "Bush Lied" crowd is basing their opposition on lies like that, and like "we're creating more terrorists" - which is just propagandistic bull - we didn't create the terrorists who attacked the Cole, or the Khobar Towers, or the WTC in 1993, or the the Marine base in Lebanon, or the Achille Lauro...those terrorists were created by an ideology that goes back hundreds of years  The only way to deal with them is , as Jefferson said, through the medium of war.

I can deal with pacifists (but I think they're wrong in that they invite trouble), but I cannot tolerate people who reason based on lies, errors and political propaganda.

People are risking their lives so we will never have to fear being killed in a terrorist attack, and people like you subvert them with falsehood - whether knowingly or not. 

How's that for an exchange of ideas?

I wouldn't equate it with changing the goal posts.  I would call it a realization of what's really going on here.  We, the U.S. has been pussyfooting around with the Islamic terrorists for decades...  Bush decided to finally take the fight to them...  His motivation, his strategy, his methodology, are all subject to criticism (just like any other military endeavor our country has engaged in in the last 230 years), but the over-all goal is not - that goal is to defend freedom and oppose those who would destroy it.

If you believe in freedom, it's high-time you join our side in the struggle.

Obviously the goal post has to change when the players change Leon.  When we went into Iraq, it was after Saddam.  AFTER we dealt with Saddam, OBL decided to use the opportunity to make Iraq the central front in the world wide Caliphate (what we call the GWOT). OBL made the decision to make Iraq the central front, not us, that's why we were caught off guard with the esculating terrorism there.  OBL thought wrongly that W would turn tail and run like Bill Clinton did in Somalia.  BTW-Saddam had a hand in the Black Hawk down incident, so I'm not going buy the idea that Saddam wasn't into terrorism, when you run terrorist training camps just as Ghaddafi did, you're not training boy scouts to walk little old ladies across the street.

dscott's postulate:  The degree to which someone exaggerates or deceives is inversely proportional to the merit of the advocated position.

 didn't the contemporary Radical Islam movement really begin with Sayyid Qutb?  And wasn't he Egyptian.?

If you cannot even accept the concept that "radical" Islam is utterly without borders or nationalities, then it really is pointless debating on the subject with us here.

By the way, it is fairly widely accepted that the roots of "modern" "radical islam" began in 1928 with the predominently Sunni Muslim Brotherhood founded by the Sufi Muslim Hassan al-Banna.

Note it's not the "Egyptian Brotherhood, or the Iraqi Brotherhood, or the Syrian Brotherhood, or the Pakistani Brotherhood" 

There's a reason.

Check out my latest YouTube...but only if you support the troops and their mission: Better Men Than Me/The Battle For Fallujah

Sayyid Qutb did not export the terrorists. He dident train them. He wrote about it. He promoted the idea of violent acts in the name of Islam. But! It was not untill the over throw of Iran that the ideas were promoted and endorsed by the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Suddenly you have a islamic cleirc, supreme leader of a nation promoting violent overthrow of goverments in the name of islam. Providing safe haven for those willing to train and be trained.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!