Over the years I have come to expect that atheists and secular humanists would take advantage of the anonymity provided by the internet to further their world view at the expense of those that lead a life based on faith in God. With little exception unmoderated discussion boards, internet based news outlets and blogs that bear any sign of religious content end up attracting those who seek validation by attacking the faithful.
However I did not expect the partially moderated discussion boards at Amazon.com to be one of those places. How wrong I was.
For those who have nothing better to do than listen to themselves supposedly wax philosophic about how "God is both the murderer and the murdered" or ponder the question, "Is masturbating allowed?" then Amazon.com is the place for you.
Lest anyone think that these subjects are the exception to the rule I suggest you have a look for yourself. Even the discussions that have the most sincere beginnings are soon infiltrated by trolls that have a determined goal of spreading their faith based hate.
All you need do is stop by any one of these hot topics to join in on the fun:
- Evil Bible - in this forum discussion you can discuss the evil of the "Biblical god, who is so immoral, so evil and so blood-thirsty he makes Hitler look like a pussycat."
- Satan is the light - in this discussion you can continue the theme of the evil bible thread by iterating "the evils perpetrated by the Christian god." Note that by sheer luck these two threads are started by the same baiter who goes by the pen name Peter. Get it? Peter. Denial of Jesus. Ha. Sorry pal, story doesn't stop there. Typical.
- In Are creationists liars or scientifically challenged? you can attack everyone who believes in intelligent design based on the fact that "scientists are trained to be objective and unbiased" while religious people are, well, you know, the opposite.
- If these topics aren't enough to keep you entertained you can always slink over to Christians cant handle the harsh realities of life and the universe, If you believe in Creationism then you approve of incest, or my personal favorite, Jesus was probably gay.
There is no shortage of anti-religious subject matter in the 1200+ active discussions on Amazon's forum. A point that has me wondering a couple of things:
- Most companies have rules against this sort of prejudice in the workplace. Considering that Amazon.com employees actively delete posts that someone somewhere has deemed offensive didn't it occur to any manager that perhaps this sort of content was inappropriate for Amazon.com in general? Why facilitate this stuff at all?
- Given the hateful rants of many of the posts I wonder what it takes to actually get deleted. Certainly anti-religious subject matter isn't in that category.
- Would Amazon leave these discussions up if the topic was derogatory toward any one of the left's protected special interest groups?
- Although not a personal fan of the term hate speech I wonder where the Amazon.com management falls within this realm? If ever there was an example of hate speech this forum is it.
- Does Amazon.com gain any business advantage by having an open forum for lefties and radical nut jobs to attack Christianity?
Perhaps it is a sign of immaturity or more likely a sign of insecurity and ignorance by those who fail to comprehend the spiritual nature of those who define life and happiness through something bigger than themselves. Who knows.
What I can't comprehend is how Amazon.com justifies providing a forum for such content.
Terry Trippany is the editor and publisher of Webloggin. The Amazon.com logo is credited to Amazon.com. The hammer bashing rendering was created by Terry Trippany.















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Well I looked through the
April 22, 2008 - 09:00 ET by taterWell I looked through the first 6 pages of topics (I don't think I could look at them all)...mostly athiest and Christian topics and yet no topics on Islam??? Hmmm.
By justice a king gives stability to a land; but he who imposes heavy taxes ruins it. -Proverbs 29:4
Frame of reference....
April 22, 2008 - 09:25 ET by Pilgrim1949Among those for whom the phrase, "You must carefully chose what hill you are willing to die upon," is a totally foreign concept (e.g., having faith/convictions for which one is willing to give one's life to the uttermost), the idea of anyone having such deeply held faith is incomprehensible and even disdainful.
Everyone has some level of faith --- even faith that their own worldview is the correct one, dispite apparent contradictions. (re: "There are no absolutes!" ....except for that very statement, of course!)
A continuation of the dogs barking at the moon, but it continues in its path, serenely undisturbed by the commotion below.
The observation about the lack of slams against the myriad "third rail" sacred cows of the leftinistas is also spot on.
Amazon.com is like a cult
April 22, 2008 - 09:25 ET by suzycreamcheeseAmazon.com is like a cult for the liberals. They spend a lot of time on the site giving one star ratings to books of a conservative nature...without reading them. It's like a chain reaction: when one does it, they have to tell one friend, then they tell one friend, and so on and so on. That's why an excellent nonfiction book written by a conservative will get a 2-3 star rating. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Religion on the web
April 22, 2008 - 09:26 ET by KC MulvilleI still believe that religion, like sex, is personal. You can’t do it remotely. And if you try to do it anonymously, it destroys the experience.
An anonymous public forum is simply not a good place to conduct spiritual conversation or prayer. These are personal and require trust, but a website open to the public is impersonal, and doesn’t offer trust. The web makes no promises. If you go to those sites to share your faith with others, you’re assuming that everyone else respects your faith decisions. The web doesn’t offer any security for that. If you want to debate or evaluate whether religion is worthwhile in the first place, you can’t assume that the web will offer mature dialogue. The web simply makes no promises.
Fools try to “rise above” respected institutions by putting them down. Or, they hope to show that they’re “beyond” the wisdom that institutions teach. It’s adolescent and juvenile, but it’s cheap, and requires no hard work or personal sacrifice. When I read these attacks on institutions like the church, it reminds me that God filled the world with human beings, with all our faults and sins.
Free Speech is a good thing
April 22, 2008 - 09:48 ET by shawn228These are not forums created by the Amazon website, these are created by Amazon members. I looked at the topics today and there are some criticizing atheist and some praising God.
One thing I love about NB is that they will not kick you off the website for offering your POV within reason.
I hate sites like Redstate or DU that will kick you off for not staying within the norm. From what I seen at the Amazon website, all different point of view can be heard
Yes, there are people
April 22, 2008 - 09:57 ET by Terry TrippanyYes, there are people defending themselves from atheists and religious bashing content in the forum but that is not my point.
The forum is facilitated by Amazon.com as stated in my article. Of course nobody employed by Amazon is starting the threads as far as I know.
My point is that Amazon.com must be aware of this as managers of the site. So it rests on whether or not this is acceptable. My premise is that it is not. I also believe that the term appropriate is subjective and that any topic that openly and often bashed gays or race or anything else that I would consider to be inappropraite would not be permitted or facilitated.
Unfortnately bashing religion does not fall under that umbrella. It is sadly symptomatic of many on the left.
I believe it is acceptable Terry
April 22, 2008 - 10:13 ET by shawn228It is nice to see a forum on religion where all different POV can be heard. No one is forcing anyone to participate in those topics.
In no way do I endorse truthmonger, but he is right that there is lots of criticism of Islam on this website. I am totally fine with it, because alot of what members say is the truth. We would not have that, if the mods deleted every bad thing said about Muslims right?
wrong Shawn
April 22, 2008 - 11:25 ET by Dee Bunkthere is no comparison to this site or any political site and a religious forum. Even still, this site does not allow vicious repeated hate mongering of anyone's religion. Political aspects of religion are attacked but not peaceful individual spiritual beliefs. Yes there are some instances, but it's not the norm.
Again - this is a political site, not a religious one or commercial one like Amazon. No one is saying they don't have the right or should be arrested for allowing the talk. People are saying it's offensive and if they don't want to offend their customers then they shouldn't allow it.
Perhaps to restate your
April 22, 2008 - 10:31 ET by CortillaenPerhaps to restate your point, allowing an action where you have the power to prevent it is to condone such action. That Amazon.com allows this kind of Christian-bashing in their forum indicates that they condone it as at least acceptable, if not desirable. Arguments that "it's just free speech" are invalid here since it is a privately-owned forum, not the public domain, and Amazon.com has the right to moderate their forum as they wish.
On another note, I noticed one of the prime antagonists, "Peter", seems to have a habit of invoking Richard Dawkins to make his arguments. I've known more than a few people like that, always pasting his quotes or links to his video clips without more than a few scraps of original thought. I'm of the opinion that such action tends to indicate a lack of understanding of a topic, much the same way teachers often ask students to paraphrase textbook information to demonstrate understanding. It's handy for them to have their arguments pre-made, ready to be lobbed into the fray, but neither side benefits from that lack of thought.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
they would certainly delete
April 22, 2008 - 19:48 ET by TruthMongerthey would certainly delete Muslim bashing:)
but Christianity thrives on persecution - actually no matter what
Pardon the cliche...
April 24, 2008 - 03:33 ET by CortillaenHm, yeah, the truth tends to do that, huh... Well, truth and fanaticism, but I haven't seen many idiot rallies or self-destruction from Christians lately. Even bashing Christianity is giving it exposure, and for every bunch that accepts the MSM-pushed idea that Christians are out-of-date, irrelevant, evil, etc., there will be some who notice the irrational vitriol and wonder why. Incidentally, "Why?" is how I arrived at my faith, so I think it's a decent way to start looking for it.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Religious forums are completely different
April 22, 2008 - 09:57 ET by Dee Bunkatheists who invade them are mean spirited and nasty. I don't like video games so what is the point of me joining a video game forum? There would be no point other than to harass people and tell them how stupid they are for liking video games. That would be mean spirited and inappropriate.
Religious forums are not the same as political forums.
Well Dee
April 22, 2008 - 10:08 ET by shawn228I agree if somebody created a thread and somebody went into that thread for the purpose of disrupting and causing trouble, like using a sco......okay lets not go there ;-).
Amazon is allowing free speech with peoples POV on religion and from what I understand, Amazon is not a political or religious site. They do not endorse any religion and they allow people the freedom to discuss amongst themselves.
Free speech is not Amazon's cross to bear
April 22, 2008 - 10:23 ET by Dee Bunkthey should have standards of decency and shouldn't let their site turn into a political hate mongering one.
Freedom of Speech is about public speech on public property. The government shouldn't stop it, that doesn't mean other people shouldn't.
Like I said, there is no reason for atheists to be on a religious forum. Agnostics I can understand, but atheists are there for the sole purpose of being hateful and mean.
Again Dee
April 22, 2008 - 10:34 ET by shawn228Amazon created a forum and the topics are created by their members. It is unfair to call it political hate mongering site, just like it would be very unfair for a Liberal to call Newsbusters a site filled with Neocons.
Some threads are down right mean and some have substance. All sorts of debate are allowed. If a person goes in there just for the sake of trolling, then just like at NB, they should be banned.
No it's not unfair and liberals can call NB anything they want
April 22, 2008 - 11:31 ET by Dee BunkHave you heard lots of compliments for it in liberal circles? Give me a break. There is no comparison to Newsbusters and Amazon.
I didn't call Amazon a political hate mongering site, I said they should not let it become one. Big difference there Shawn.
If it's so great and unbiased allowing all forms of debate then please provide the examples like Terry has of the Christian bashing of where they allow Race bashing, Gay bashing, sex bashing and other things. Even if they do allow these things also, I still think it's in bad taste.
Amazon sucks anyway
April 22, 2008 - 10:46 ET by ladyrvtI don't buy many books anymore, but when I do I always use bn.com instead. Barnes & Noble's site is less cluttered and more professional looking, and their shipping is fast and reasonably priced. And unlike Amazon they've never stolen my $99 without letting me upload the books I had for sale.
You can't worship the State and God
April 22, 2008 - 10:46 ET by Carl KolchakOne thing to remember is that not all atheists are the same, anymore than all people belonging to one religion are the same. I've done some basic research into atheist societies from the past, and in my opinion all you see is lip service from the leaders about how smart they are, and how much they want to control the population and make sure the teachings of Christ or other religions are controlled. Atheist Enver Hoxha was in charge of Albania, and attacked religion. Albania was more isolated than East Germany was, and nothing productive in terms of science or innnovative thinkers came out of his reign as leader. In fact after his death, the leaders of Albania passed a resolution condeming Hoxha for his crimes against his own citizens. Ceausescu from Romania was also a Stalinist like Hoxha, and attacked religion and used lip service to talk about how smart and brilliant he thought he was. Nothing productive in terms of science or innovative thought came out of athiest Romania, and the poeple of Romania executed him and his wife due to his incompetence. Atheists Walter Ulbricht, Erich Honecker and Egon Krenz ran East Germany, and they also used a lot of lip service to talk about how smart they were and attacked religion, and tried to substitute the State for the Church. Their society was controlled by the Stasi the secret police who kept constant tabs on the population. Nothing productive in the arts, science or innovative thinking came out of the atheist East Germany.
Leon Trotsky for some reason gets heaps of praise from college professors, but I have no idea what competent things he accomplished. He was involved with the Red Terror, in which Lenin and Trotsky used the Cheka which was their secret police organziation, to torture, kill or deport anyone during the Russian Revolution. This was worse than the Inquisition. Then incompetenet Trotsky and Lenin had to rely on the American Relief Agency to come to Russia to feed the countless millions starving, because Lenin and Trotsky were too incompetent to feed and take care of their people. The American Relief Agency was from Capitalist USA, and Trotsky and Lenin were against Capitalism. Trotsky also attacked the Russian Orthodox Church, because he thought they had a lot of wealth. Priests were persecuted and killed, and after all of that there wasn't as much wealth as he had thought. Then Trotksy and Lenin attacked the kulaks which were considered to be wealthy peasants. Who knows how many kulaks died, but some estimates I have seen are over 2 million. Here is a quote from Lenin from the book "The Sword and the Shield" by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin page 486.
"Every religous idea, every idea of God, every flirting with the idea of God, is unutterable vileness,...vileness of the most dangerous kind, "contagion"of the most abominable kind. Millions of filthy deeds, acts of violence and phsical contagions are far less dangerous than the subtle, spiritual idea of God decked out in the smartest "ideological" costumes."
Then from the same book page xxxi.
"The second outstanding case if that of Cardinal Karol Woutyla, Archbishop of Krakow, whom the KGB seems to have identified int he early 1970s as its most dangerous opponent in the Soviet bloc. Wojtyla, however, was protected by his moral authority and eminence. The KGB, like the Polish SB, shrank from the immense public outcry which his arrest would provoke. Seen in hindsight, Woytyla's election in 1978 as Pope John Paul II marked the beginning of the end of the Soviet Bloc. Though the Polish problem was, with difficulty, contained for the next decade, it could not be resolved."
"The Chancellor-the late chancellor-was only part correct. He was obsolete. But so was the State, the entity he worshiped. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for Mankind in the Twilight Zone" Rod Serling
To be fair, it's a religion
April 22, 2008 - 10:59 ET by AlabamaTo be fair, it's a religion forum, not necessarily a Christianity forum. Although I doubt that that is the thought process of the atheist postings, they are on the topic of religion, however poor in taste they may be.
What I wonder is how long forums with titles like "Evil Koran" or "Muhammad Was Probably Gay" would last on Amazon's religion forum. If something like that would be allowed to stand, then Amazon can claim no religious bias.