Today Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made an appearance on the daytime program "The Ellen DeGeneres Show," and the topic quickly turned to the issue of same-sex marriage. The issue arose after Ms. DeGeneres revealed on her show last Friday that she will be marrying her parter, Portia de Rossi. The marriage announcement came a day after the California Supreme Court overturned a ban on gay marriage. View video here.
Here's a partial transcript of the conversation:
JOHN McCAIN: My thoughts are that I think people should be able to enter into legal agreements and I think that is something we should encouraage, in particularly in the case of insurance and in other areas. Decisions need to be made. I just believe in the unique status of marriage, between a man and a woman, and I know we have a respectful disagreement on that issue.
ELLEN DeGENERES: Yeah, I think it is looked as and some people are saying the same that blacks and women did not have the right to vote. I mean women just got the right to vote 1920. Blacks didn't have the right to vote until 1870 and it just feels that there is an old way of thinking that we are not all the same. We are all the same people. You are no different than I am. Our love is the same. So, to me what it feels like just, you know, I speak for myself when someone says you can have a contract and you can still have insurance and you will get all that, it sounds to me like saying you can sit there but just can't sit there. It doesn't feel feel inclusive. It feels isolated. We aren't owed the same things.
Update: The episode aired today not yesterday, as my first paragraph describes.
Comments Policy
Go Gophers
May 22, 2008 - 12:06 ET by bradbenj5952Ellen's response reminds me of an old cartoon I used to watch as a kid. In the opening it shows one gopher mummbling something unintelligible. The chief then asks another indian, "what him say?" And I say, "what her say?"
What these people are looking for is that some "authority" will "legitimize" their sin so they can ease their defiled conscience for their violation of God's law.
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." - C.S. Lewis
GO GO GOPHERS WATCH'EM GO
May 22, 2008 - 13:35 ET by red_dragon311GO GO GOPHERS WATCH'EM GO GO GO
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
and the peds Ellen - can
May 22, 2008 - 16:34 ET by TruthMongerand the peds Ellen - can they have a seat too?
animal lovers?
you're not an "old thinker" right, Ellen?
Father and Mother
May 23, 2008 - 03:16 ET by Daniel BakerEveryone should have a father and mother because their are differences between the way the sexes relate. Homosexual behavior is extremely sexist and should not be tolerated. How sexist of them to prevent children from having a father and a mother.
Now they want to legalize their intolerance or "legitamize" as you would say.
http://www.ornery.org/
McCain is Old Fashioned!
May 22, 2008 - 11:57 ET by MeanderingHere is late breaking news: McCain is old and old fashioned. Big whoop. The problem is people thinking marriage should be a government issue. Guess what, its not! Marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman and it has been that way FOREVER!!! So yes that way of thinking is old fashioned as the oldest One of all of us made it that way (I'm speaking of GOD, if you didn't pick that up). Sorry Ellen, I like you, but marriage is a religious issue not a government issue.
Old fashioned
May 22, 2008 - 12:06 ET by mattmWhat I don't get is why would people whose very lifestyle is rebellion against societal norms and traditions, etc. want to associate themselves with an old-fashioned institution like marriage?
Ms. Degenerate says now she can "celebrate her love." B.S.! Nobody stopped her from "celebrating her love" before. This all so much crap.
To me it proves that this gay marriage movement is nothing but a desperate attempt to gain official government sanction and societal acceptance for their deviant lifestyle.
and that's what makes it so
May 22, 2008 - 16:35 ET by TruthMongerand that's what makes it so groovily rebellious! brilliant...
We are NOT all alike
May 22, 2008 - 12:13 ET by kgDeGeneres: "There is an Old Way of Thinking That We Are Not All Alike:
Ms soon to be Mr (?) DeGeneres, we are NOT all alike. To say differently is moronic. What happened to your "we are all special, we are all individuals, multiculturalism, we need our self esteem? I guess that does not fit your agenda anymore.
"Forget change, I want improvement!"
Isn't that the Truth!
May 22, 2008 - 13:13 ET by MeanderingMen and women are not created equally. They have different parts and even our brains are wired differently and there is NOTHING wrong with men and women being different. Sheesh! Just wait 5 minutes and they will change their agenda again!
Marriage is a Religious Sacrament
May 22, 2008 - 12:14 ET by GothampcI have always thought of marriage on religious terms. I take gay marriage as an attack on religion. I'm not that familiar with legal things, but I still don't understand why someone doesn't sue on the basis that it infringes on a religious belief system.
What do they want?
May 22, 2008 - 13:16 ET by MeanderingWhat is it that they want? Do they want joint insurance or being able to call their significant other a spouse? They can do all that without being "married". This whole issue bothers me because I do not want the government to say that religious institutions that oppose gay marriage have to conduct said marriages or the government will step in. Separation of church and state is more than having God removed from our schools, but liberals don’t care about that as it doesn’t further their agenda.
Marriage is a Religious Issue
May 22, 2008 - 13:39 ET by Gothampc"This whole issue bothers me because I do not want the government to say that religious institutions that oppose gay marriage have to conduct said marriages or the government will step in."
I agree. It's dangerous ground and we need to protect religious belief in this country.
Yep
May 22, 2008 - 13:51 ET by MeanderingLiberals yell, separation of church and state too keep our youth from praying in schools (of course not any prayers, just Christian prayers), but then they are trying to creep in and say that gay marriage is a "right" and force churches to hold such ceremonies as it is unconstitutional not to. Very dangerous.
Yikes
May 22, 2008 - 14:22 ET by MeanderingOops Again.
Oops!
May 22, 2008 - 13:52 ET by MeanderingPosted twice, sorry!
Remember- the doctrine of
May 22, 2008 - 14:15 ET by Tim the EnchanterRemember- the doctrine of separation of Church and State was meant to protect religion from the incursions of the government. It is usually Caesar that wants what belongs to God, not the other way around.
True
May 22, 2008 - 14:25 ET by Meanderingbut that goes only so far as to fit their agenda. I really can see government stepping in to make churches marry gay people calling it unconstitutional to deny them that.
Gay Adoption
May 22, 2008 - 16:30 ET by GothampcIt's not beyond the realm of the conceivable. An adoption agency in the Boston area that was run by the Catholic Church was closed down because they refused to allow gays to adopt children. Nobody even blinked when that happened.
My Spouse
May 23, 2008 - 00:09 ET by CiampinoI just don't want to have to specify that I am married to a woman when I tell someone that I am married. It should be obvious as it has always been. Let them find another word for it - make one up if necessary!
Definition of
May 22, 2008 - 11:58 ET by HypocriteHaterDefinition of marriage:
1. limited to 2 people (this rule excludes polygamists who want to marry multiple partners)
2. the couple must consist of 1 man and 1 woman (this rule excludes homosexuals who want to marry same sex)
3. both individuals must be within legal age (this rule excludes pedofiles who want to marry a child)
4. both individuals cannot be closely related (this rule excludes incestuous marriages)
So answer me this, Ellen. Why do gays have a special constitutional right to break one of the rules of marriage?
Living Constitution
May 22, 2008 - 12:40 ET by ThermistoclesYou forget, in the liberal mindset they have a living constitution. Translation: it means what I want it to mean at this particular moment.
The reasoning of the court is quite unreasonable and politically driven. They could very easily justify any of the cases given using the same line of thinking. Expect this ruling to be exploited. The poly-minor-incestuous-interspecies want to celebrate their love too.
Democracy
May 22, 2008 - 15:58 ET by JDWIn a democracy the judicial branch does not have the authority to legislate, voters decide. The idea of altering the CA constitution from the bench is frightening.
JDW
If you mention ANWR it means you don't care about the environment but when congress says ANWR it means you don't care about the gasoline prices
Racism is off limits, but
May 22, 2008 - 11:58 ET by marpelRacism is off limits, but age discrimination isn't...Wow..wait 'til Ellen gets old.
What Ellen wants to do is
May 22, 2008 - 12:00 ET by taterWhat Ellen wants to do is called a civil union...don't call it marriage because that's not what it is.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
Your love may be the same Ellen - but the family structure
May 22, 2008 - 12:21 ET by Dee Bunkyou want to create isn't.
Children deserve to have a father. If they don't have a realistic possibility of getting one then gay parents are better than no parents, but it's not the same and it never will be. A boy deserves a father who understands his unique physical and physiological and emotional problems and a girl deserves a mother for the same things. Both benefit from also having a parent of the opposite sex to help them understand and appreciate the other sex.
The best way for children to be raised is by a loving non abusive mother and father. All couples can be abusive whether they are gay or straight and single people can be just as abusive too but only one type of situation can give a child both a mother and a father. That is marriage - or at least it should be.
This in no way means that single parents or gay parents should be looked down on or ostracized. It only means that people should not deny what is best for children just to make some adults feel better.
Sodomites
May 22, 2008 - 12:30 ET by AndersonWhat Ellen Degenerate has apparently forgotten is that God almost totally destroyed New Orleans because of sodomite sin like hers. Will she be able to ignore a huge earthquake in California that causes the sea to rush in there, as well?
»→ Anderson
May 22, 2008 - 12:35 ET by Cool ArrowDid you receive this message directly from God?
Are you telling the truth? Or is this conjecture?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Anderson - don't you think God would be more concerned
May 22, 2008 - 13:04 ET by Dee Bunkwith rape, murder, pedophilia? If God were striking people down for their sins, how would they ever find their way to him? Everyone sins.
It's not our job to point out other's sins unless it harms innocents. We all have our own sins and those should be our primary focus when it comes to pleasing God.
»→ Dee
May 22, 2008 - 13:07 ET by Cool ArrowAnderson seems to think drowning a bunch of poor people is God's way of telling homosexuals to change their ways.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
He is wrong Cool. Gods way
May 22, 2008 - 13:10 ET by bassndudeHe is wrong Cool. Gods way of dealing with homosexuals has to do with raining fire and brimstone on em...
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
»→ bass
May 22, 2008 - 13:24 ET by Cool ArrowI'm pretty much of the opinion "The way of the transgressor is hard"
If I slug down 20 cokes a day I should expect Diabetes.
If I drink to excess I should expect cirrhosis.
If I rob homes I should expect incarceration or a violent death.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Good points Cool. Save a
May 22, 2008 - 13:29 ET by bassndudeGood points Cool.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Sodomites can't swim
May 22, 2008 - 14:38 ET by AndersonIf Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and John McCain’s minister Rev. John Hagey say that God drowned the Sodomites in New Orleans, that’s good enough for me. You can bet the chickens will be soon coming home to roost in the Sodom kingdom of California, too. Let’s pray that the good people of California vote against gay marriage and give the Sodomites the drubbing they deserve before God punishes all of them with a chicken roost catastrophe unseen before in the annals of mankind.
the epitomy..
May 23, 2008 - 12:20 ET by LTKwith rape, murder, pedophilia? If God were striking people down for their sins, how would they ever find their way to him? Everyone sins.
It's not our job to point out other's sins unless it harms innocents. We all have our own sins and those should be our primary focus when it comes to pleasing God.
Yes we are all human and none of us are perfect but, there are some of us who try to stay on the straight and narrow, and when we fall off, we get right back on the straight and narrow instead of making lame excuses.
Bless you Dee for giving us an example of haow a warped mind reasons. Thanks.
Ditto LTK!
May 23, 2008 - 12:35 ET by Dee BunkYour point doesn't contradict mine but it seems that you think it does. That is kind of warped. ; )
If you are indirectly trying to defend the idea that God caused Katrina and the resulting flooding to punish Gay people then that is for sure warped reasoning.
Huh, who'd have guessed?
May 22, 2008 - 13:05 ET by Saint ZeroI thought the storm surge from Katrina flooded it. I think if God wanted it gone, it'd be a blank space on the shore of lake ponchatrain.
God's Protection
May 22, 2008 - 13:54 ET by GothampcWhile I don't believe that God initiated the flood that destroyed New Orleans, I do believe that He pulled His protection back from the city. But I believe God pulling back His protection had more to do with the US pressuring Israel to give up the Gaza Strip.
God almost totally
May 22, 2008 - 13:58 ET by balboaGod almost totally destroyed New Orleans...
So, what's his excuse for not destroying Las Vegas yet? Or San Francisco? Why is Hollywood still standing? Why is Thailand still around?
Ignore those! God's apparently shirkin' the destruction-job!!
May 22, 2008 - 14:09 ET by sarcasmoKey West is both an easy target for hurricanes and Key West is just about as gay as gay ever gets (especially around Fantasy Fest, from what I hear, but I avoid the Keys during that time BECAUSE of all the people!). Even including San Francisco. And keep in mind, Fantasy Fest happens DURING hurricane season...
JMR
PS Please, Oh Lord and Creator of All Things, make one big hurricane hit during this socialist's term as Florida's governor, so there's at least a tiny chance that Florida's idiotic voters will blame him & his socialist policies for the impending failure/disaster they're going to cause! I beseech thee!!
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Wrath of God
May 22, 2008 - 14:40 ET by AndersonOurs is a mysterious God. We cannot know all of His ways.
Oh, he's mysterious, but
May 22, 2008 - 14:42 ET by balboaOh, he's mysterious, but only when it doesn't fit into your rhetoric about destroying cities for being sinful. Gotcha.
Mystery
May 22, 2008 - 15:30 ET by AndersonIt's also a mystery why God created Sodomites in the first place. In my weaker moments I have wondered if God likes bowling; setting pins up only to knock them down with proverbial balls of wrath.
I have only 1 question
May 22, 2008 - 12:31 ET by cvgbuckeyeWhy do Republicans continue to insist on going into these liberal venues, into the bowells of Sodom and Gamorrah, so that these side show freaks can place them in uncomfortable positions to rauccus applause from a stacked audience, while their modest reponses are laughed at, hooted, booed and drowned out?
These fools do their best to make decent Conservative people LOOK LIKE fools. That is their sole reason for having Conservatives on and they do a good job of it. Just stay away from all of them and let them carry out their freakish lives. Who cares?
Why?
May 22, 2008 - 13:57 ET by Gothampc"Why do Republicans continue to insist on going into these liberal venues"
Same reason Democrats think they can have talks with Ahmadinejad.
buckeye, actually I think
May 22, 2008 - 21:36 ET by lotrbuckeye, actually I think McCain came off looking quite good, IMHO. I respect anyone (even a Liberal) that has the gonads to go into enemy territory, look the adversary the eye (on national television) and say "I stand on principle" without losing composure or showing disrespect to the other.
very well and succinctly stated.
May 22, 2008 - 13:10 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltvery well and succinctly stated.
I have to agree with Ellen
May 22, 2008 - 12:50 ET by krendlerI have to agree with Ellen on this and am in favor of not only same-sex marriages but also same-person marriages. This would allow individuals like myself - a total loser who is unable to attract a partner but, at the same time, someone who masterbates a lot (compulsively, in fact) - to marry themselves. Before you say "That's ridiculous" or "That's a lot more information than I needed to know", consider that blacks didn't have the right to vote until only 140 years ago.
»→ Krendler
May 22, 2008 - 12:53 ET by Cool ArrowTaking matters into your own hands is not the answer.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
hysterical! Both of you
May 22, 2008 - 12:54 ET by Dee BunkI laughed loudly
Krendler!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 22, 2008 - 12:56 ET by cvgbuckeyeKrendler, I gotta tellya. It took me at least 10 minutes to be able to calm down and wipe the tears from my eyes so that I could reply.
In all the years I've been reading Newsbusters, thats got to be the FUNNIEST reply that I've ever seen. My wife was sitting behind me and she had to come over and see why I was laughing so hard.
Ah, man! You outa be on TV.
Wow, who would have thought
May 22, 2008 - 12:58 ET by taterWow, who would have thought that allowing blacks and women to vote would open the door for all sorts of moral corruption.
...and yes before someone gets mad this is tounge in cheek and sarcastic.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
And what about animal lovers
May 22, 2008 - 13:04 ET by ThermistoclesAnd what about animal lovers who don't relate well to people. They say that dog is man's best friend. Why won't you let folks marry thier best friend, for crying out loud. Isn't that what marriage is really all about? It's like you are saying, you can sit here but not here. Like there is some sort of hateful stigma and bigotry surrounding a natural and fulfilling relationship. If you oppose this, you are no different that the slave traders and nazis.
krendler - I will now start
May 22, 2008 - 13:12 ET by seaniepkrendler - I will now start searching through all replies to topics to read what you have to say
that was awesome!!!!
Too Late
May 22, 2008 - 14:05 ET by GothampcActually you are about 10 years too late. Several years ago, Queen Latifah married herself.
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200503/20050325/slide_20050325_104.jhtml
At that age i was a cronic
May 22, 2008 - 14:17 ET by red_dragon311At that age i was a cronic masterbater too....kinda still am....in fact I would be doing right now if i had my stuff with me
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
Left your stuff on the
May 22, 2008 - 14:25 ET by KarmaLeft your stuff on the nightstand? Clip-ons or velcro?
niether it's a line from
May 22, 2008 - 16:04 ET by red_dragon311niether
it's a line from the show "Frisky Dingo" that fit
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
You may want to try to hook
May 22, 2008 - 14:19 ET by Tim the EnchanterYou may want to try to hook up with Dennis Rodman if he gets a divorce from himself.
Man, get a grip. Errr,
May 22, 2008 - 21:39 ET by lotrMan, get a grip. Errr, scratch that. Uh, well, never mind...
Give it up!
May 22, 2008 - 13:03 ET by okiehawk44I don't really care if Ellen gets "married" or not. I'm more concerned with young men and women putting their lives on the line for her "right" to do it. This is apparently all Ellen and Portia think about -- it's the overriding issue in their lives? Pitiful!
With Memorial Day coming up, I can only assume that Ellen and others like her will get down on her/his knees in thanks for their freedoms. They came at a cost and you didn't pay a dime.
"it sounds to me like saying
May 22, 2008 - 13:06 ET by WhoIsJohnGalt"it sounds to me like saying you can sit there but just can't sit there. It doesn't feel feel inclusive. It feels isolated"
I'm very sorry that gays feel that way, but honestly, isn't it accurate? Are they not isolated by nature? They cannot bear children without the help of a disinterested third party.
This argument that just because it "feels right" and that it is love just carries no weight. So what if it feels right? If it feels right for NAMBLA to have relations with children under the age of consent, does that serve as an end-all justification for their position?
By all means, enjoy your relationship together, but do not bring children into it and it ain't marriage.
Poor ellen
May 22, 2008 - 13:24 ET by jackvAnother show of ellen's becoming the gay show. What makes these people think we want to hear about their gross lifestyle?
When she said "celebrate our love" I about gagged!
Do they really need our approval so much.
Do whatever you want, ellen...just leave me out of it!
Frankly...I'm with McCain on this one!
I get really irritated with
May 22, 2008 - 13:31 ET by KillgraveI get really irritated with all this moralizing, which turns me off on the Republican party.
I don't understand why people get so offended and threatened by gay people. Two guys getting married is pretty goofy, especially if one wears a dress, but it doesn't hurt me at all. Why should it be my business what they want to do?
Freedom of religion is enshrined in our Constitution. That is why it's okay that a church refuse to marry two guys, especially if one of them wears a dress. And if gays get upset about that, they can go jump in a lake.
But in a secular, public courthouse? Who cares? If it's going to make you cry, go outside and walk around the block. There are elements in our country that are actually dangerous, and have ill intentions for us. Gay people are, at the very worse, just irritating.
If you haven't noticed, most
May 22, 2008 - 13:37 ET by jackvIf you haven't noticed, most of this is because they are making it all of our business.
And people with other "lifestyles" will begin demanding the same.
I too could care less..but I also don't care to hear about anyones sexual proclivities...gay or straight...or whatever!
"Two guys getting married
May 22, 2008 - 13:42 ET by NL207"Two guys getting married is pretty goofy, especially if one wears a dress, but it doesn't hurt me at all."
Not necessarily true. These individuals are engaging in behavior that tends to spread infectious disease. To the extent they irresponsibly and recklessly spread harmful or even fatal diseases to other members of society, they hurt you. This is the rationale by which Government prohibits or licenses prostitution. The public in the form of the Government has the right to prohibit private activities that inflict harm upon others. The Liberals will all defend the Government's right to prohibt pollution, one citizen dumping his or her waste into the air or water used by another person. This is no different than prohibiting one individual from giving another gonorrhea.
Straight people having sex
May 23, 2008 - 07:00 ET by KillgraveStraight people having sex spreads disease, too.
You say that the government should be in the business of "prohibiting" sexual behavior. I'm not sure about that. I don't want big brother in my bedroom or in anyone else's bedroom.
And I think liberals use the excuse of "pollution" to shut down commerce and break the back of capitalism. Maybe conservatives use the excuse of sexual diseases to insert themselves into an individual's moral self-determination. The similarity of both instances is power at the expense of liberty.
Your argument is
May 23, 2008 - 09:35 ET by NL207Your argument is fallacious, ignoring the simple facts.
Most straight people don't have 20 sexual partners in the same month. I am intentionally omitting the NBA players here. Many Gay men do. Prostitutes do. Laws restricting these promiscuous activities can be justified as measures designed to prevent propagation of infectious disease. Consider the case of Sub-Saharan Africa, where sexual promiscuity has spread AIDS to such an extent the fabric of those societies is collapsing, proof that the state does have an overriding concern in preventing epidemic.
Pollution laws deal with private property rights. If somebody backed up a dump truck and left a pile of waste in your back yard, you would be justifiably incensed at the vandalism of your property. Private property laws are intended to protect you from this. If a neighbor three hundred yards away buries thirty leaky barrels of hazardous chemicals on his property, which leak into the ground water, subsequently spread to YOUR property, and cause your groudwater to be contaminated by hazardous chemicals, would you not think your neighbor had vandalized your property?
Not to mention that there is
May 23, 2008 - 13:23 ET by lotrNot to mention that there is a physiological difference between the vagina and the anus. The former is designed for intercourse, the other is for evacuation of the bowels. I may be wrong (please correct me if I am), but I recall learning somewhere that all STDs were originally the result of irregular (i.e., non human, non-heterosexual) sexual contact.
And the pro-gay movement
May 22, 2008 - 14:24 ET by Darth DutchAnd the pro-gay movement doesn't moralize? Words like "should" and "ought" and "rights" come in to play in their vocabulary all the time. Those are morally driven and morally based words. The difference between the pro-gay movement & religious people is that religious people at least have a basis for their delineation between right & wrong. The pro-gay movement's theme is "tolerance", but it is not tolerance of everyone. They are just as intolerant as any religious person...but at least the religious person is up front about it and doesn't hide behind words like "tolerance".
Darth Dutch
What rights that I have does
May 22, 2008 - 22:32 ET by txcoWhat rights that I have does a gay man not have? None that I can think of. He has the same rights as me. That seems fair and I totally support our shared equal rights. But what most gay men want is an extra right…the right to marry another man. That would mean that a gay man would have more rights than me…wouldn’t that be discrimination?
I don't think it's an
May 23, 2008 - 07:20 ET by KillgraveI don't think it's an "extra" right.
You believing that a man shouldn't be marrying another man is your own personal belief. And that is fine.
But why do you need to impose it on another? Jesus said "judge not, lest ye be judged". Only God should judge.
You may not agree with other peoples' personal and moral choices, but the good news is, you are not responsible for their souls.
Can I marry my sister?
May 23, 2008 - 11:28 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltOr my mother? We're really close...
Or two women? We all get along VERY well.
Why not? Although not nearly as likely, it's certainly going to be brought up damn near immediately after same-sex marriage is legalized, and there will be no defensible argument against such things at that point.
Do you not see ANY value to the ubiquitous "social fabric"?
no problem's with gay
May 23, 2008 - 15:37 ET by TruthMongerno problem's with gay marriage is this guy's belief, dude - but why does he want to impose it on us:)?
»→ Remember FURY?
May 23, 2008 - 15:47 ET by Cool ArrowWhen I was a kid, I used to watch FURY - The story of a horse, and the boy who loved him.
After all these years I understand why Joey's best friend was nicknamed "Packy"
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
only God should
May 23, 2008 - 12:37 ET by TruthMongeronly God should judge?
read it again - that's not what it says
we can't judge souls, but we can judge actions
my concern is public health - which immoral actions degrade - morals protect our health
morally prohibited actions include murder, theft, assault, rape, homosexuality, fornication and many others
we can legalize them - but it will cause greater social disease
that is our choice
By this statement "You may
May 23, 2008 - 15:03 ET by Dan The Man 2By this statement "You may not agree with other peoples' personal and moral choices, but the good news is, you are not responsible for their souls" you spread your ignorance of God. God des not hold us resposible for anothers choices in life, He does however hold us resposible for anothers being saved or his eventual place his soul will end up.
God questions Cain about Abel and Cain says "Am I my brothers keeper" and Gods says yes. God does want us to make every effort to educate the unsaved and to go to all ends of the earth spreading the good news. In fact He commanded us to do so.
So yes He wants us to "save" one anothers souls.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Jesus said "judge not, lest
May 23, 2008 - 15:32 ET by Darth DutchJesus said "judge not, lest ye be judged". Only God should judge.
Keep reading the verse. He then says "for the manner in which you judge others will be used against you" (paraphrased). He doesn't say you can't judge, but just be aware that whatever standard you use against others will be used against you.
But why do you need to impose it on another?
Again, the pro-gay movement does this too. They impose their morality on the vast majority of the public by demanding acceptance. It cuts both ways.
they literally impose it
May 23, 2008 - 15:43 ET by TruthMongerthey literally impose it with Judicial fiat
at least we "impose" marriage laws democratically - the way it always should be
One of the million things
May 23, 2008 - 07:11 ET by KillgraveOne of the million things that irritate me about liberals is their ability to be tragically wrong even when they are right. Instead of insisting on all Americans being equally protected under the law (no matter what political stripe), they push the establishment of "special" groups that should be entitled to "special" rights and protections.
I'm confused on your position...
May 23, 2008 - 11:45 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltIn your previous post you said that it's not an "extra" right.
Now you refer to "special groups" and "special rights" as being wrong.
Please clarify for me?
where does it stop?
May 22, 2008 - 16:17 ET by ort777I'm no philosopher but I think this is the result of moral relativism. You are more or less saying if it doesn't hurt you, then who gives a rip what someone else does. You see, the bar just keeps getting lower and lower as time goes by. I remember an interview with Ted Bundy before he was executed. He said the hard core porn that you could only get in the porn shops was 20 years later on tv. As society "progresses" morals decay. My firm belief is that the gay lifestyle is wrong and a sin. So a lifestyle that is abhorrent in the eyes of God shouldn't be practiced just like any other sinful lifestyle. If we say this is okay, then how can we tell the person who craves other sinful behavior that it's wrong? I don't think we want to go down this road.
Moral movements are
May 23, 2008 - 07:32 ET by KillgraveMoral movements are self-feeding and can very easily get out of control. I firmly believe that the whole Global Warming fiasco is simply a moral crusade, because their high priest even said so.
Morals are subjective. Our founders were certainly good Christian men, but they established our system under the objective notion of life, liberty, and property. Their motiviation was influence just as much (if not more) from the Enlightenment as the Bible.
morals protect public