"Morning Joe" host Joe Scarborough on Thursday attacked misinformation spread by a guest during a segment on the previous day's "Hardball." Ex-CIA agent Bob Baer appeared on Chris Matthews' program on Wednesday to claim that no information was gained from waterboarding and that using the practice on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed left the terrorist "almost brain dead." Scarborough derided this kind of comment as "vomit[ing] out bad information" and later apologized if people were confused by Baer. [Audio available here]
Scarborough quoted a memo by National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair asserting that "high value information" came from waterboarding. This appeared to be a way of educating Baer and, in what sounded like a warning to his MSNBC colleagues "anybody else that books Bob Baer." Scarborough went further and offered an apology that, one would assume, would have to be on the behalf of not just Baer, but also his own network. Looking right into the camera, the host empathized, "And I only say this, because this is the information that gets out on TV and in the newspapers and in magazines and I can understand why Americans are confused and I apologize that people are giving you bad information."
At the top of the program, Scarborough seemed more reticent to name names. When he described "Hardball" as a "cable show," co-host Mika Brzezinski asked which one. Scarborough simply replied, "I'm not going to say." He then added, "Because you get such bad information. You really do. People come on, they vomit out bad information."
Scarborough also took time out to knock down another claim that Baer, who was the basis for the liberal George Clooney character in the film "Syriana," made. In a "Hardball" clip, Baer asserted that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. The "Morning Joe" host clarified, "They [the interrogators] set it up and the way they counted waterboarding, every time you poured water on, if a drop went on him, they marked that down. He's been waterboarded one time." In other words, one session could result in 20 to 30 occasions of so-called waterboarding.
As for Mohammed being brain dead, referencing appearances the terrorist has made in court, the "Morning Joe" host explained, "...When he says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is brain dead, close to brain dead, if he had a TV set, just watched TV or read newspapers, he would know that was wrong."
One wonders how Matthews will respond to this critique. Not to read to much into the timing, but Scarborough and company did make these remarks at just about the earliest possible moment of the three hour morning show, 6:06am. Perhaps too early for some people?
A transcript of the conversation, which aired on April 23, follows:
6:01
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Basically, here's what's going on. And I saw- and we're going to play a clip. I don't usually watch some of the cable shows at night because-
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: Uh-oh. What did you watch?
SCARBOROUGH: I'm not going to say.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, no.
SCARBOROUGH: Because you get such bad information. You really do. People come on, they vomit out bad information.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
SCARBOROUGH: And they get cheered. They might as well have, like an applause track. So, a guy went on last night, we're going to play the clip later, and he actually said that- a couple things that were just so outrageously wrong. And he's a former CIA agent, but he makes money, obviously, trashing the CIA. And we're going to get to that.
6:06am
WILLIE GEIST: We're going to get to our top talkers and something Joe was referring to just a couple minutes ago. Former CIA operative, Middle East operative Bob Baer, well-known guy. He's written some books. He's been a guest on our show, was on "Hardball" last night, telling us whether or not torture or enhanced interrogation techniques, actually work, whether they're a good way to get information out of people. Here's Bob Baer.
BOB BAER [On "Hardball"]: You cannot rely on torture and we did exactly that to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah and they went on about the second wave, all these other attacks, Padilla, other ones that were only fantasies in their minds and that's what it produced. It tied up the FBI for all these years now, following these false leads. It got us no where. Waterboarding is illegal internationally and in this country. We've prosecuted. It does go back to the Spanish Inquisition. It is torture. When you waterboard Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times I can pretty well safely say the man is almost brain dead. This is torture.
GEIST: So, Joe, that's the opinion of one former CIA operative. Not even what you heard from other CIA agents, though.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, not only that, but I don't know if Mr. Baer doesn't have a TV set. If he did, this could have been cleared up before he went on TV and embarrassed himself. First of all, Dennis Blair himself, two days ago, had a memo released that said, that we basically uncovered the al Qaeda network through these interrogation techniques. He said this. Bob Baer, and anybody else that books Bob Baer, please listen. "High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the Al Qaeda organization that was attacking this country. I like to think that I would not have approved the methods in the past, but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time, and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations." Etc. Etc. Etc. And that document will be released that Dick Cheney is talking about that shows about 50 percent of the actionable intelligence we received since September 11th came through interrogation techniques. 50 percent.
...
6:13
SCARBOROUGH: So, Bob Baer, first of all, said this was not actionable intelligence. And I only say this, because this is the information that gets out on TV and in the newspapers and in magazines and I can understand why Americans are confused and I apologize that people are giving you bad information. But when he says we got no information and Dennis Blair says we got a lot of information and we understand al Qaeda because of those techniques. Number one, he's wrong. Number two when he says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is brain dead, close to brain dead, if he had a TV set, just watched TV or read newspapers, he would know that was wrong. And the third thing was, and I'm surprised Bob Baer doesn't know this, and I'm just going to say this because you will also know this, you get reports that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 186 times. And so we said, did they strap him down the entire month?
BRZEZINSKI: Hold him under water for an entire month?
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, exactly. They set it up and the way they counted waterboarding, every time you poured water on, if a drop went on him, they marked that down. He's been waterboarded one time. So, in one session, you could have 20, 30, 40 so-called waterboardings where they tip it over. Talk to him. Tip it over. Talk to him. I'm not saying that's moral or immoral. You're going to have to judge that as an American and what you want this country to be. I'm just saying, the misinformation continues and it's very bad for the country. And again, as we said, Mika, the people who suffer are our CIA agents who are painted as beasts by people who should know better.
BRZEZINSKI: I think that's a really important point.
—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.





JOE SCARBOROUGH: Basically, here's what's going on. And I saw- and we're going to play a clip. I don't usually watch some of the cable shows at night because-














Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Joe
April 23, 2009 - 14:09 ET by Jerry MackJoe has finally figured out the purpose of Msnbc. Wonder why it took him so long.
→ You got it J Mack
April 23, 2009 - 14:17 ET by Cool ArrowGlenn Bec, this morning, was relating how Walt Disney used television to promote his other developments.
A loss-leader like the NBCs is a brilliant ownership if your real intent is Green indoctrination.
Obama - A whole new dementian
GE shareholders had an impact?
April 23, 2009 - 14:15 ET by suburbaniteIt looks like the GE shareholders who questioned the bias of MSNBC and said so at the annual meeting might have had an impact. Maybe capitalism isn't dead after all.
"Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way" Triumph
I served with Bob Baer...
April 23, 2009 - 14:30 ET by jdripperAfter retirinng from the US Army I did contract work for different government agencies. On more then one ocassion I came into contact with Bob Baer and people who worked with him.
First of all Baer was called Inspector Clouseau by people forced to work with him. He never got his hands dirty. He was a low level functionary who rose to officer level, but he never did any recruitment, never did any information gathering, i.e. ear to the ground and NEVER, NEVER,did any interrogations not even to witness them.
There is a reason that Syriana was fiction. He was and still is a self promoting grand standing jerk who was too afraid to do the hard day in and day out workof the CIA.
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
Bob "Chicken Hawk" Baer
April 23, 2009 - 14:39 ET by richardMe thinks Mr. Baer needs to be water boarded until he learns to tell the true. What a douche.
the counting method - that's news to me
April 23, 2009 - 15:04 ET by mom_roxSo that explains the 183 number. Until now I didn't know the basis for that number. (not widely disseminated information) Thanks to Joe and NB.
~~save your tea, dump congress~~
Hey Joe.... THANK
April 23, 2009 - 15:11 ET by bigtimerHey Joe....
THANK YOU...it is past high time you spoke out loud and clear...I just wonder what happens to you behind the scenes on the pathetic excuse for a station...nothing but hate-filled, lying leftist propagand...24/7.
Baer is and has been nothing but detestable from day one on the television screens...let alone his book the msm loved to promote, still do.
Joe, don't back down for once, please stick to your guns...or walk.
I just got done listening to Liz Cheney rip Norah O'Donnell a new arse, with class of course...after the segments were over, here came Lawrence O'Donnell with his screeching about Liz to Norah...it would be funny if it weren't so sad with the agenda they have to rip this country to shreds.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Don't prejudge MSNBC followers... look at this poll:
April 23, 2009 - 15:23 ET by jazboPluarlity on MSNBC give Obama a 100-day "F" Grade!
An outright majority give him a "D" or an "F".
I wonder how the Tingly One will spin it. Or will he just ignore it?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093/
Those who believe in nothing will believe anything.
35%: A 40% F Almost
April 23, 2009 - 15:25 ET by pelicanmarsh35%: A
40% F
Almost 2,800,000 responses.
Interesting...
16:22 hrs Thursday 23 Apr 09
A poll worth watching, even if it is MSNBC.
Freedom of Speech is a privilege, not a protection.
.
May 4, 2009 - 15:33 ET by rexdraconim"You can have Peace or you can have Freedom; just don't count on having both at the same time." - R.A.H
"I'll take the harsh reality of liberty over the illusion of security...everytime!" -me<
Scarborough = MISSING ?
April 23, 2009 - 15:59 ET by De_Oppresso_LiberHow much do you want to bet that Scarborough goes "missing" from MSNBC for a few days because of 'personal' or 'on assignment' excuses
(aka; he said "bad" things about MSNBC)
or....
April 23, 2009 - 16:38 ET by Jnoble..after being "on vacation" a couple days, he comes back with noticable stiches in his forehead and slow slurred speech:
"Today's....top....story.....Will the...Bush/Cheney Crime family.....finally be prosecuted..."
well at least if that happens, Mika will have someone with a lower IQ than she does to work with.
Or the other scenario, Joe does his news reads with a gun pointed to his head just like that scene with the Russian anchor from Airplane! :-)
Waterboarding is no where near the Spanish Inquisition
April 23, 2009 - 16:59 ET by The Smokin FrogJoe Scarborough is the only bright spot on that station. I'm surprised he still has a job there. Brzezinski didn't even buy Bob Baer's propaganda.
Waterboarding is no where near the Spanish Inquisition. Waterboarding is only perceived pain. As opposed to the torture that Obama is in favor of, torturing to death millions of babies a year. I don't think there is an abortion method that is not torture.
Bill O'Reily and Leslie Stahl and Waterboarding
April 23, 2009 - 20:12 ET by Kingfish17I'm not a big fan of Bill O'Reily but I happened to catch a segment of him today when he was interviewing Leslie Stahl about an upcoming 60 minute segment. BOR brought up the percieved torture issue and Stahl responding by saying that she was concerned about how the "perception" of America was harmed because of the methods used. BOR got kind of hot-under-the-collar, as he is want to as of late, and asked her about the methods we used in WWII such as dropping the atom bomb on Japan and the carpet bombing of German cities, and how that effected the world's perception of America.
"But this is terrorism" was Stahls weak response.
Which brings up a point that I think, few spend much time on. Conservatives will take the heat for stopping the big wars. Liberals will not, and tend to get us into the huge confilicts where millions die, but everyone gets behind the effort because of the carnage. Chamberlain vs Churchill is the best example. Stopping the communists in Central America when Reagan was President, and the war on terror while GWB was President are good examples of suffering political heat while stopping larger possible conflicts.
The liberal response is that only possible conflicts were stopped. There may not have been an escalation. The conservative argument is, that's the chance you take to save millions of lives.
I pray that Obama is not Chamberlain part two.
Joe, my man...come away
April 23, 2009 - 21:41 ET by RR GOPJoe, my man...come away from the Dark Side...save yourself!
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Pretending that this Baer
April 24, 2009 - 02:24 ET by ckc1227Pretending that this Baer clown is right for a moment, I have to ask....would anyone here lose a second of sleep knowing KSM was left brain dead?
I'll go first.....not no, but HELL no.
It might even be worse
April 24, 2009 - 08:39 ET by Jack ColemanKSM could be placed under suicide watch. Then again, for jihadists, isn't that redundant?
Way to go Joe
April 24, 2009 - 06:42 ET by thomaspYou know that both Olbermann and Matthews want to waterboard Joe for telling the truth.
T
ScatterBrainBorough
April 24, 2009 - 09:11 ET by GeneralAlMaybe Joe ScatterBorough is begining to see the end of his career as PMSNBC is falling below "The yellow line" and will soon be voted off the ranch! He will probably campaign for a job at FOX so hes trying to reclaim some Conservative credentials! It won't work Joe! You've eaten slop with the swine at the Mainly Socialist Never Believe Conservatives network for too long!
IS Joe a Torturer, is that how his asst died
May 27, 2009 - 06:22 ET by iviewithttp://www.larryflynt.com/notebook.php?id=17Who Is MSNBC Anchor Joe Scarborough?
While the media was obsessed with Chandra Levy, another congressional staffer was found dead in then-representative and current MSNBC talk-show host Joe Scarborough's office. Unlike Gary Condit, Scarborough got a free ride from the press.
Report by Denis Wright
In the morning of July 20, 2001, the body of Lori Klausutis, who had worked as an aide to Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough for approximately two years, was found in Scarborough's Fort Walton Beach, Florida, office.
There were no witnesses to Klausutis's death.
According to Anna Dobbins, a producer at WEAR-TV, Joe was on the phone with the local ABC affiliate in Pensacola within three hours of the discovery of the body, and before the family was notified, to say that "a young woman had died in his office and that she had a complicated medical history, specifically surrounding 'stroke and epilepsy.'"
The congressman and his advisor, Mick Serrano, made similar calls to two other local media outlets within hours of the body's discovery.
According to Dobbins and others, about a week later, after the Klausutis family wrote an excoriating letter to a local paper, Serrano called back to ask that they stop reporting the "complicated health history."
Joe, they were now correctly told, had spoken in error.
Klausutis-a marathon runner, 28 years old and happily married-had been in great shape. Her "complicated health" began only on the night that she died, and its "history" surfaced primarily because of Joe's misinformation.
The nebulous circumstances surrounding Klausutis's death were further compounded during her body's postmortem exam. Michael Berkland, the medical examiner assigned to perform the autopsy, quickly released a statement to the press indicating that there were no signs of trauma to the body or any indication of foul play. Later, however, he admitted the body had "a scratch and a bruise."
Berkland, it must be noted, has a less than professional record. He was fired from his position as medical examiner in Missouri for making false statements and eventually lost the right to practice medicine in that state (see sidebar). Still, Berkland concluded in the final autopsy report that Klausutis's heart had failed. Moreover, by failing to officially close the investigation, long after they had ceased to interview witnesses, the police prevented the public from learning any facts about Klausutis's death.
Only when the autopsy report was released (and that occurred only because the editor in chief of the Northwest Florida Daily News Ralph Routon's editorial demanded its issuance) did those willing to exercise their rights under Florida's Sunshine Law learn the extent of Lori's injuries.
The autopsy report revealed that Lori had suffered two skull fractures and an additional wound. A 71/4-inch crack all but spanned the top of her head, from right temple to left.
As a likely consequence of that blow, blood poured in from a steadily pumping heart to form a fist-sized hematoma at the left temple. There were separate 11/2-inch eggshell fractures, essentially pulverizing the bone, deep inside the skull behind the right ear. The back of her head was bashed, and her lungs were filled with bloody foam, suggesting that she took a relatively long time to die.
In the final autopsy report, Berkland wrote off all those devastating injuries to heart failure. According to Berkland, Klausutis had fainted from a weak heart and hit her head on the desk, an unlikely scenario considering the massive damage to the victim's skull.
Showing an incredible lack of professionalism, the local press swallowed this story whole, even the seeming contradiction about a failing heart having been capable of pumping more than a half cup of blood to form the hematoma. Medical science suggests that, if Klausutis's heart was so weak that it failed to pump enough blood to her brain to maintain consciousness, that same heart would not pump enough blood to form the hematoma.
With Berkland's confusing-and medically improbable-scenario securely within the official case file, the case was closed. No more questions. No more answers.
Democratic Congressman Gary Condit wasn't so lucky. Chandra Levy was last seen April 30, 2001, less than three months before Klausutis's death. Thousands of stories appeared all over the world about Condit's missing intern. When facts were in short supply, the media unashamedly engaged in rampant speculation. For instance, constantly searching for a new angle to the story, Fox News even interviewed a psychic to learn what happened to Levy.
Condit became the most sought-after interview subject since Monica Lewinsky. Connie Chung beat out Barbara Walters, Diane Sawyer, Dan Rather and others for the much-coveted "get," and on August 23, 2001, a little more than a month after Klausutis's death, ABC's Prime Time Live aired the highly anticipated interview/event.
Levy and Klausutis were both young females who worked for U.S. representatives. Scarborough's aide, while never missing, also died under mysterious circumstances. Both stories broke-or would have broken-within three months of each other and before the events of 9/11 finally forced the media to get over the Condit story (at least temporarily).
Given these similarities, how was it that the media never even questioned why Scarborough was not a suspect in Klausutis's death?
The mainstream press, by our count, published only a few dozen stories about the case of the dead staffer, almost all of which appeared in outlets in the northwest Florida area. Cable news completely ignored the story. The alternative press, too, has been all but silent on the Klausutis situation.
The "liberal media" that spent the greater part of summer 2001 destroying the career and reputation of former Congressman Gary Condit (D-California) over his affair with his then-missing intern Chandra Levy had absolutely nothing to say about the young woman who worked for Scarborough and died in his office.
While so-called journalists chased down every rumor about Condit, they would simply hang up on or dismiss any caller who dared to mention the death in Joe's office.
Furthermore, instead of receiving the Condit treatment-nonstop Larry King specials with titles such as "Death in a Congressman's Office"-Joe was offered his own television show.
Unexpectedly, Scarborough announced his retirement from representing Florida's First Congressional District in May 2001-just six months after his reelection-and signed a three-year contract with cable news channel MSNBC to host Scarborough Country, replacing their then-highest-rated prime-time show, Donahue. Not only did he escape media scrutiny altogether, but he was also given a slot in their ranks.
Scarborough has since made a name for himself for his thoroughly brutal attacks on anyone who disagrees with him or George W. Bush. Danny Glover, Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon and Janeane Garofalo have all been the targets of Joe's ire.
According to The New Yorker's TV reviewer Nancy Franklin, Scarborough "swings his little club with about as much discrimination as Bamm-Bamm, the diaper-clad pugilist on The Flintstones." But "Regular Joe"-as he likes to be called-has an uncommonly thin skin. Scarborough has frequently complained about his tarnished reputation and lambastes anyone who questions the disparity of coverage received by the Condit and Scarborough cases.
"It's not really the media so much as it is sort of this political class of people who just go around causing trouble all the time," Joe said in an interview published in the Pensacola News Journal in September 2001, just days before he left office. "For instance, it is spread all over the Internet right now that my staff member [Lori Klausutis], who died tragically a month ago, was killed by me. I could list a thousand conspiracy theories against me: that I rig elections; that I have a drug-running outfit with the CIA; that I'm a murderer; that I have 15 illegitimate children."
In reality, there's been scant coverage of even the most fundamental aspects of the Klausutis case.
One is left to wonder why our media was so quick to jump on every single tid-bit of gossip and innuendo about Gary Condit but refused to report of Lori Klausutis's death, on the equally intriguing and tragic story. Surely if Gary Condit had called the media to issue false statements about Chandra Levy's nonexistent health problems, the public would have heard about it nonstop. In Joe's case, the revelation was never mentioned.
Regardless, Regular Joe is now a regular TV star, living the high life in New York a thousand miles away from memories of a dead staffer.
Joe himself wrote the following in one of the many self-serving columns for the Independent Florida Sun, his now-defunct newspaper: "There is an old saying that warns that if you allow people to assume the worst, they will. So be it."
Indeed. On May 29, 2003, Scarborough appeared on Don Imus's radio show. While complimenting Scarborough on his sense of humor, Imus said, "Don't be afraid to be funny, because you are funny. I asked you why you aren't in Congress. You said that you had sex with the intern, and then you had to kill her." Scarborough laughed and replied, "Yeah, well, what are you gonna do?"
* * *
Denis Wright is an artist, writer and activist whose work has appeared in Online Journal and American Politics Journal. He is currently researching irregularities and political fraud surrounding touch-screen voting technology. Chris George and R.S. Miller contributed to this report.