ABC Slams Americans as 'Most Wasteful People on the Planet'

Photo of Scott Whitlock.
By Scott Whitlock | April 11, 2008 - 12:26 ET

According to ABC reporter Elizabeth Vargas, "Americans are the most wasteful people on the planet. We use more than any other people on the planet." The network correspondent's America bashing came as she appeared on Friday's "Good Morning America" to promote a new "20/20" special on how United States citizens haphazardly abuse such amenities as showers and diapers. [Audio available here]

While appearing in front of hundreds of prop-diapers, Vargas lectured, "Well, if everybody lived like [the United States], we would need four, at least four, planet Earths to meet our resource demand and our dumping ground demand." Now, while Vargas did claim that the diapers she used would be given to a hospital, throughout the segment many more diapers, bottles and cut-down trees appeared as props. The question needs to be asked, did "20/20" and the National Geographic network, who co-produced a companion program, waste products, while at the same time haranguing the United States for doing the same thing?

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The whole point of special seemed to be simply to make Americans feel guilty. Vargas began by lamenting the fact that "busy parents lose track of just how many [diapers] our children go through and we never stop to think about what has gone into making the average diaper." Next, however, she ruled out cloth diapers as an alternative. "But, have you ever considered what it takes to launder them," she asked. Vargas then proceeded to explain that, over the course of the time a baby would need cloth diapers, they use 22,455 gallons of water. So, no regular diapers and no cloth diapers? What would Ms. Vargas have Americans do instead?

In April of 2004, CNSNews.com reported that militant environmentalists are actually encouraging "diaper free" babies:

Citing concerns about plastic disposable diapers clogging landfills and the amount of washing and detergents that cloth diapers require, many environmentalists are taking a page from tribal cultures and seeking to eliminate the use of the baby diapers altogether.

Is this the future that "Good Morning America" has in store for Americans? GMA is the same program that in 2007 twice featured a "noble" environmentalist who shuns toilet paper. Additionally, in April of 2007, to celebrate Earth Day, GMA co-host Diane Sawyer stood on a plastic bag mound and, at the same time, implored Americans to be less slothful. (The picture at right is representative of the "20/20" special. It looks as though some of the props are computer generated, but Vargas clearly interacts and picks up others. So, again, are the producers of this program being wasteful in order to decry waste?)

At the end of the GMA segment, guest co-host Bill Weir claims, "...If we just trim a little bit, it will have a wide ranging effect." By "trim," does he mean less showers or no diapers? Or both?

A transcript of the segment, which aired at 8:34am on April 11, follows:

BILL WEIR: Well, here's a question for you. Do you really know how much you throw out every day? From extra food to magazines to diapers, what you consume may shock you. Consider this: In your lifetime, you will drink more than 43,000 cans of soda. You will eat 12 shopping carts full of candy bars and generate 64 tons of waste. And that's just the beginning. National Geographic Channel and "20/20" look at the human consumption trend in a new special called "Human Footprint." And Elizabeth Vargas is here with more on this.

ELIZABETH VARGAS: Good morning, Bill. It's one thing to recite those statistics. It's another thing to actually see in one place all the bread you'll eat or all of the milk you'll drink in a lifetime. Take something that is a staple in most American homes, every American home, nearly, at least at one point, the diaper. We spend our first two and a half years in diapers, brilliantly designed for comfort, convenience and hygiene. Diapers are made to use once and throw away. So, busy parents lose track of just how many of them our children go through and we never stop to think about what has gone into making the average diaper. How many diapers require changing over our first two and a half years of life? It adds up fast and it looks like this. [A pile of diapers is in front of Vargas.] This is a little more than four diapers a day. 1518 diapers a year for a total of 3,796 diapers over our diaper-wearing time span. It's convenient for parents but all these diapers make a big impact on the wider world. Because there's more inside a disposable diaper than meets the eye, it takes half a pint of crude oil per diaper to make the plastic waterproof lining that encases them. This is the amount of crude oil [Graphic: 1,898 pints] you'll need for one just child. And over 30 months that single diaper baby will use 715 pounds of plastic. That's as heavy as three heavy weight wrestlers. And that's not all. The soft, fluffy padding on the inside requires the pulp of four and a half trees. Multiply that by the number of babies in the U.S. and the grand total is 18 billion disposable diapers thrown away every year. That's enough to stretch around the world 90 times. And all those diapers will long outlive the babies who soiled them. It could take 500 years or more for them to bio degrade. It could be even longer because we don't really know how long it takes plastic to break down. We may think that reusable diapers are the answer. They are made of national fibers and avoid plastic. But, have you ever considered what it takes to launder them? Washing all those diapers at home will use 22,455 gallons of water. Enough to fill a swimming pool of this size. It's also enough drinking water to quench the thirst of an average person for 93 years. So, in case you were thinking cloth is the option-- And also the heating oil you need to make that water hot to wash the cloth diapers and all of the detergent that goes down the drain. And remember, all of these diapers were sitting in the middle of, one American baby.

WEIR: One child. We should point out, not just a prop, We're going to send these over to the New York Foundling Hospital after we do that.

VARGAS: We're donating them.

WEIR: What about milk? How much do we consume?

VARGAS: We consume in a lifetime 13,056 pounds of milk. Obviously more as children, but three pints a week even as an adult. And you don't think about it. It's in your coffee. It's in your breakfast cereal, in your yogurt, in cakes. That sort of thing. And all of that adds up. We show in the special all of the pints of milk a single person will consume. And it goes from, you know, the front of the street down this, like, long residential street. It's pretty incredible.

WEIR: And water is such a precious resource. What about showers?

VARGAS: We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water.

WEIR: Each one of these [computer generated picture of rubber ducks appears onscreen], I guess, rubber ducks represent, one shower?

VARGAS: Each rubber duck represents one shower. And you can't see this. Again, those rubber ducks also goes across an entire field and finally go down to a pond. The-- I mean, the whole thing about this, Bill, is to think about in the aggregate, what you and I each will use. Americans are the most wasteful people on the planet. We use more than any other people on the planet.

WEIR: Right. And if we just trim a little bit, it will have a wide ranging effect.

VARGAS: Well, if everybody lived like us, we would need four, at least four, planet Earths to meet our resource demand and our dumping ground demand.

WEIR: Wow. A sobering, important reality check. Elizabeth thanks so much. And you can see much more tonight on "20/20" at 10/9 central. And "Human Footprint" airs Sunday, April 13, on the National Geographic Channel.

—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.

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Buy a better diaper

I have a one year old that's sporting diapers every day.  With the exception of the fastening tabs, they're all paper.  We've used several brands, and I haven't seen a plastic disposable diaper in a long time.   

Stultus est sicut stultus facit

Well, isn't the outside

Well, the outside is plastic but that's very little. And I noticed, from changing my new grandson, that the disposable diapers are now much, much, thinner than they were when my youngest, now 19, was a baby. So less material is going into making them.

Now as to the "diaper-free" babies...how much water and detergent does it take to launder the clothing and bedding that those children soil? Their own, and others' I might add.....

There is simply no way to please these enviro-wackos. Nothing is good enough for them.

Scooping up after baby

I can't wait for the day when babies' nurseries contain a crib, a mobile, a night light, and several hundred pounds of kitty litter scattered on the floor. 

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

No way

Good one, but I am NOT cleaning the kitty litter. But maybe we can use it for compost somehow? A new meaning to baby food I guess.

motherbelt: In addition,

motherbelt: In addition, have you noticed how much liquid one of these diapers can absorb? That also means fewer diapers used. Sometimes my little nephew's butt resembles a Macy's Parade balloon.

This is a perfect example of the sort of tunnel vision we see in such reports. As if things will always remain static rather than considering that innovation never stops.

 

I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.

20/20 Should Go 20'/20'

Hey 20/20 why don't you set an example at combating waste by reducing your studio to 20' by 20'. Think of the energy saved on heat, ac, lights etc. Not mention the reduction in "hot air" emmitted from your speaking orafices.

Not to mention -

 

ABC news is the most useless on the planet -- perhaps the universe.

MSM: the most wasteful "info" outlet?

since were talking waste...millions of "news" papers, web sights, radio and tv broadcasts report the same redundant "news" information everyday - that's extremely wasteful...

especially since it's all lies anyway...

and do we really need the entertainment industry wasting all the electricity it needs?

Save the planet - go Amish! 

Sigh. If only we unloaded

Sigh.

If only we unloaded our guns before stepping into the shower.

 

Shrub,

Nice throwback!

Rog, I remember a saying

Rog, I remember a saying back in the 60's, "Save water, shower with a friend", the bumper sticker had one each male and female playin in the water...:-)....ahhhh, those were the days...

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

And save even more

I try and save on central heating by sleeping with someone every single night. Hope to spread my fight against global warming and saving on oil in my own special little way. I am now going for the how-many-in-a-bed strategy, but my wife isn't as committed to fighting global warming as me. Sigh. It's lonely being the only treehugger in my house.

Good sense of humor AA but,

Good sense of humor AA but, maybe the committments your wife holds dear are more important to her than a fictional catastrophe.

I'd keep her if I were you. She shows good judgement. (smile)

If only ---

 

If only the "news" organizations could stop wasting and throwing away all of those facts that make their stories relevant and truely newsworthy -- there's no telling how much we could save.

I wish all these America

I wish all these America Hating Lefties would just leave.  Go to some Third World hell-hole and see if you can enjoy living in squalor... Vargas needs a diaper for her mouth.

Shutter, it reminds me of

Shutter, it reminds me of a person who can't be satisfied with anything someone else does, such people enjoy micromanging the lives of others just to make them jump through hoops.  You ever run into such a person?  If you go right, they demand go left, if you wear a long sleeve shirt they carp about why you didn't wear a short sleeve shirt.  We call this exercise of power being a Control Freak.  Today it's diapers, bottled water and plastic bags, what's tomorrow???? 

These people are on a power trip, guilting people into doing something is the ultimate power trip because they don't have to use a gun to your head, they instead are using your own mind. 

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

VARGAS: We take 28,433

VARGAS: We take 28,433 showers. Sounds like she wants to quit showering. I bet she could only get the homeless on her show after that. And her crew would make her do the show from a remote location....the artic, maybe.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Bass, when you think about it,

these Earth-dogs like Elizabeth Vargas and their "au naturale" style really want to live disgusting lives. Don't shower, don't throw out your garbage, don't drive a vehicle (just walk or ride a bike and work up some more sweat to add to the BO). Since when was water a precious resource, honestly? I look around and see an unlimited supply! I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to continue to live my clean, comfortable life the way I see fit, since none of us have any real, measureable impact on the environment anyway.

Priorities?

"A sobering, important reality check."

Indeed. I feel so ashamed.

If America would only kill even more babies in the womb, think of all the REALLY important things we could save like diapers and milk.  (sarc off)

Oh btw, you notice how

Oh btw, you notice how Vargas doesn't talk about the habits of wealthy people but of normal people having children?  This is an indirect suggestion of not having children in the first place to avoid using the diapers.  This all goes back to the failed prediction of the "Population Bomb" by Paul Ehrlich.  The agenda is to get the peons to have less children thus with fewer of them they are cheaper to manipulate. Those social programs are expensive you know.

Vargas is so busy fingering habits of average people that she distracts from the true resource wasters, the super wealthy.  Who do you think uses half the residential electricity of the US???? That would be the 5% of the population with 70% of the personal wealth of the US.  So Vargas and Wier, how big is your house?  Significantly larger than the average American of 2,500 square feet?  Guilting the 95% of the population who has only 30% of the wealth, i.e. spending power, is just plain hypocrisy of the highest order.  Who is it flying around in private jets using on one trip as much fuel as two cars commuting for an entire year?  Take the Log out of your own eye before you point out the speck in ours.

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

Indeed! Liz, let's

Indeed!

Liz, let's see those power bills of yours.  Let's see what you're buying at the grocery.  You using only one square in your efforts to save the trees, darlin'?  By the way, passing interest:  Is there any leather in those boats you're wearing on your feet?

The "average" American home

The "average" American home is 2500 sq. ft? Damn, I'm living in less than half that. She must not mean me. Phwew!

Didn't know I was "underpriveleged." Where do I sign up for my guvmint check?

So do I, but you notice how

So do I, but you notice how people like Vargas never get around to saying wealthy people have a responsibility to live more conservatively?  You notice they never talk about not owning that 2nd or 4th house?  You notice they never talk about defining what is an ample sized house?  Apparently, if you can buy carbon offsets it doesn't matter (Al Gore).  So if you're wealthy you can ease your guilt with money but if you are of the common sort, shame on you for taking up space!

People like Vargas are all too happy to tell other people what to do but they themselves have no problem dropping that C note on a pair of leather shoes or having a 10,000 sq ft house or paying $1,000 month in electricity.  If they actually gave a crap about the poor, then they wouldn't be pushing up electric rates and gas prices by their own wanton consumption.  When you over consume a limited supply of any product the price goes up for everyone not just on the people who consume copious amounts.  That means people like Vargas are directly responsible for the high cost of electricity, gas and food which hurts the poor, but what does Vargas care?  or Al Gore for that matter?  It's called social responsibility of self restraint, but these people not only spend like there is no tomorrow, but they insist everyone including the poor pay a tax to cover up their own consumption.

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

WTF?

"Diapers are made to use once and throw away."

Yes, and that helps to prevent the spread of fecal born diseases that KILL PEOPLE, ya twit! My God, she is DUMB!

"We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water."

What is she suggesting here? That we limit showers and risk
starting another plague like as happened so many times in the past? She
just keeps getting dumber and dumber!

You may not know it, ya twit, but aggressive personal hygiene keeps people from spreading several of the deadly and contagious diseases that have plagued mankind for millennia. Remember the Black Death? (The Queen takes a bath once a month, whether she needs it or not.) It also helps to prevent the spread of “common” diseases like colds and influenza. Aggressive personal hygiene is the best way to stop the spread of these and other dangerous pathogens. It’s a simple and inexpensive method that actually works. But you are actually trying to make me feel GUILTY about that? Well, guess what? It aint working!

Go back to your self-absorbed, guilt ridden, eco “friendly” yet harmful to human health and well-being, liberal fantasy dream world you inhabit, honey, and let the rest of us live the healthy, clean, respectable lifestyle we’ve worked so hard to create for ourselves and our children.

<"We take 28,433 showers.

<"We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water." >

Good for us. And if you ever travelled out of the States, Ms. Vargas, you'd wish that some others did.

That's also a phenomenal display of brain-rot on your part, Ms. Vargas, and I wonder how much toilet paper you use.

You hysterical enviro-fruitcake guilt-mongers are really wearing thin on me. 

The French

Sorry, but even 28,433 showers won't take that smell of garlic away from the French.

Interesting little fact: Do you know why the French are known for their perfume? Because they took to bathing much later than the English. But they still had to do something about the smell. Not joking here - http://www.blackpearlbotanicals.com/natural_perfume_history.htm

"ABC Slams Americans as

"ABC Slams Americans as 'Most Wasteful People on the Planet'"

This dreadful situation requires immediate ammendment!  I suggest we all turn off ABC TV during the time period April 24 - May 21 2008 to show solidarity with Energy Conservation measures and prove to ABC's editors that Americans are at heart, Green.

 

Ok, I'm going be the dead

Ok, I'm going be the dead skunk in the road and ask the question "do you folks in the USA consider waste to be a virtue?"

I am of Scottish heritage and my inlaws are Lithuanian and Croatian. We regard ANY form of wastefulness as a sin! I suppose this makes us un-American...well so be it.

Just what are we wasting?

Just what are we wasting? Most of the products we use, from glass, to metal, to plastics, to food scraps, to water, and even to the very air we breath, is collected, purified, and recycled for use again and again. The few products we don't recycle are either burned to produce energy (which, btw, renders toxic chemical inert) or is buried back into the very earth which supplied the raw materials that we used to create them. In reality, Americans actually “waste” far less than most, if not all, other societies on earth.

(on edit: That's "collected" and not "cleaned")

Well, I was just going on

Well, I was just going on what the post said. Maybe it's true maybe not. But that's quite a claim that Americans "waste" less than anyone. Do you have a link that proves that?

Just an observation, I have relatives in Michigan..they have cheese in a spray can there...no really..i'm not making this up!

mandrake, you asked "do you

mandrake, you asked "do you folks in the USA consider waste a virtue?" You'll have to specify what you consider "waste."

Cheese in a spray can has been around since I was a kid. In New England. Do you consider that waste?

You can't ask an open-ended question like that. You'll have to define "waste."

You'll have to define "waste."

That's easy. For people like mandrake, anything Americans do is a waste.

Cheese in a recyclable can? That’s a waste. Cheese in a discarded waxed paper wrapping? That’s NOT a waste

Ok, I surrender. I cannot

Ok, I surrender. I cannot 'define' waste for anyone else other than myself or my family. To attempt that would be a 'waste' of my time. So you win...but cheese in a can??? Have it your way and good luck!

Well, mandrake, that's the

Well, mandrake, that's the problem with questions like that. No one considers waste a "virtue" but each of us has his/her own definition of "waste." You apparently think cheese in a can is waste. How about whipped cream in a can? Is that waste?

I get plastic bags from the supermarket..a possible "waste" to some people. But I then use them to line my wastebaskets and kitchen garbage can, which means I never buy those boxes of "garbage bags."

What I'm trying to say is, we all do what we can, in the process of our own lives. Just about everyone does something. Who are these liberals like Vargas etc. to tell us which things we have to do?

Yeah, MB.  I think the

Yeah, MB.  I think the "skunk" has been run over so many times now that it's not going to get up.  It's dead and starting to really stink.  I'll call Animal Control so they can clean up what's left of its rotting corpse.  Poor fella.

Well, USA consumes more

Maybe mandrake meant to show two points. And please this isn't a judgement - just a fact.

1. Per capita - the average American consumes more than anyone else and any other country in the world.

2. Per capita - the average American creates more carbage that goes to rubbish dumps (is that what you call it here?) than any other person or country in the world.

The two could well be linked.

Part of the problem? Only 50% of Americans have access to recycling (less than other developed countries, but more than developing countries).

Sounds like the Green Eyed Monster Speaking

And if you look at the map in this link, you'll see that Canada and Europe are not far behind in per capita consumption.  Hmmmm...first world countries.  First class producers of wealth and goods.  Furthermore:

Some consumption patterns reflect the rate of industrial, urban and infrastructure development rather than simply current wealth. Cement, for instance, has in recent years been used in greatest quantities in the rapidly growing Asian economies. The top three places for per-capita use in 1996 were occupied by the Republic of Korea, Taiwan and Malaysia. Each used more than twice as much cement per capita as the United States and four times as much as a typical established industrial nation with well-developed infrastructure, such as the United Kingdom. 

Finally, Americans are increasing the pace and volume of recyling as it becomes easier and more economically feasible.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Yep

Yep, I agree. Rate of industrialisation and level of industrialisation both have a direct correlation to waste and consumption - and type of waste and consumption. And recycling is increasingly becoming easier and more cost-effective in the US. I work with a number of companies who create waste (especially plastic) in finding new and innovative ways to reuse and recycle (and reduce). All down to the single most important point. Saving money (or making money)

I was just helping out the dude from Scotland who got off track. Can't blame him for trying to not create waste. It's such a small little hilly part of a crappy little island that if you throw a plastic bag out the window the landfil is filled up. 

Who Cares - Recycling is a Waste of Time

I never recycle, if they want the materials I throw away they should pay me for them. Recycling is actually bad for the environment. Wasting paper actually increases the amount of trees that are planted so I waste as much as possible.

Bullshit! - Recycling (29min)

Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Your Choice PopTech

But recycling is NOT a waste of time...particularly if you have single stream recycling.

Furthermore, recycling diverts a large part of the waste stream away from your local landfill.  Now, depending upon where you live, that may or may not be an issue.  But landfill's only have x amount of years of useful life, getting all of the environmental permits, etc. to build a new landfill is next to impossible, and it costs money to dump at the 'fil.  The closer the 'fil is to the end of it's useful life, the more it's going to cost to use up that valuable commodity...airspace.

Right now, it costs about $95 a ton to dispose of garbage in South Florida...without recycling, it would cost more.   Landfill space is a commodity, just like anything else. 

So recycle, or not....I make money either way.

<edit> Your link to the NYT is eleven years old...recycling technology (as well as the market for recycled materials) was in its infancy at that point.  Talk about old news.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Yes Recycling is a waste of time

How much waste that is "diverted" from landfills is irrelevant as we have essentially unlimited landfill space in this country. Getting "environmental permits" has nothing to do with available landfill space. Modern landfills are environmentally sound and safe, they even produce methane that can be used for energy.

How old an article is irrelevant what matters is it still costs far more to recycle than to use landfills and always will unless the material being recycled is in demand by the market. The only way you can pretend that recycling is cheaper is for government to increase the costs of using landfills through taxation and fees. Otherwise it is impossible and will always be cheaper through simple logic.

BTW I throw everything in the trash and there is nothing you can do about it.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Unlimited Landfill Space?

Oh really?

Why don't you go try to open a new landfill and tell me how easy it is to do?  Sure there's space aplenty.  But that's only step one.

Landfill's are very, very profitable.  So how is it that there aren't more of them?  Getting a new landfill approved and certified is a herculean process. So that kind of demolishes your "irrelevant" statement. 

I know all about waste to energy, dude. 

Citing an eleven year old article does matter, in this instance.  Time has changed the technology, and the commodity market.  But suit yourself, you obviously don't care to evaluate logically anything about this issue.

As I said, I don't care whether you recycle or not.  I make money either way.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Not going to get in on the

Not going to get in on the whole argument, but I will comment on this:

Getting a new landfill approved and certified is a herculean process.

True, and a lot of it is the NIMBY attitude. Everyone wants a landfill, but not where they live.

Yes Unlimited Landfill Space

Arguing how hard it is to get a landfill approved thanks to nut job environmentalists has nothing to do with the reality that we have essentially unlimited landfill space. Nor is it an argument that landfills are environmentally safe.

No matter how much technology changes the costs of recycling will always be more than using a landfill in a free market unless the materials being recycled are in demand by the market. That is called basic logic. Arguing that nut-job enviromentalists use government to try and make using landfills more expensive then they would be in a free market is not a logical argument and intellectually dishonest.

It's OK to Throw it Away: Tell Your Kids (Roy E. Cordato, Ph.D. Economic)
Landfills Are Safe (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
Mandatory Recycling Wastes Resources, Harms Environment (The Heartland Institute)
Our Widespread Faith In Recycling Is Misplaced (Cato Institute)
Recycling is a waste of time (The Times, UK)
Recycling is Not the Answer (Cato Institute)
Recycling 'Like Throwing Money Away' (The Heartland Institute)
Recycling: Your Time Can Be Better Spent! (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
The Big City; Rethinking The Rites Of Recycling (The New York Times)
The Recycling Myth (The Ludwig von Mises Institute)
UF Study Points To Garbage, Recycling Trucks As Source Of Litter (Science Daily)
Wasting Resources to Reduce Waste: Recycling in New Jersey (Cato Institute)

I save a tremendous amount of time NOT recycling and have been convincing new people everyday not to.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Tell it to someone who is clueless PT

Arguing that nut-job enviromentalists use government to try and make using landfills more expensive then they would be in a free market is not a logical argument and intellectually dishonest.

No, it's a fact.  Deal with it.

FYI...I've been in the industry for a long time....so don't try to "educate" me with your laundry list of links.  I read that rediculous NYT one....enough of my time spent on your googling on a subject about which you know nothing...but, my oh my, about which you certainly do have strong feelings.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I am telling someone who is clueless = you

Recycling is a waste of time and money and I never do it ever. I throw everything right in the trash. What are you going to do about it? I have literally gotten most of my neighborhood to stop too.

The fact is that environmentalists push emotional irrational positions and then try to mandate them through government by force. I do deal with it by educating people that recycling is a waste of money and landfills are safe.

I obviously know more about the costs of recycling then you do but what else it new?

Thinking recycling is cost effective or good for the environment is an emotional position not and economic or logical one.

People are welcome to make up their own minds:

Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)

Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)

The internet is a free source of information and you cannot control the truth no matter how much you wish you could.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Oh, here we go again....

Posting the same old, and I mean, really old....link.

Dude, put down your drink.

I don't care if you recycle or not.

I don't care about the enviros (the fact is....mandate them by force), nor the stupid governmental regulations.

I deal with the reality of the business environment.

What did you particularly not understand about my statement to you..."I don't care whether you recycle or not"?

Who's being emotional, PopTech?  Hmmmmm?
 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Have you no respect blonde?

Don't you know his credentials? He is a 10 time recipient of the prestigious TFSCL award? :-)

Nope

None. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

My Credentials are Irrelevant to the Facts about Recycling

My computer science credentials are irrelevant to the facts that using landfills is more cost effective and environmentally sound than recycling. But then again I always back up my positions with facts and sources not emotional arguments:

Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)

Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Pathetic

You don't care yet you keep responding? You seem scared people may read the information in the links I provide, why would that be? Afraid they may learn the truth and put you out of business? It is the only reason I can come up with for your irrational defense of something proven to be cost ineffective and based solely on emotional positions = Recycling.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

reality PT

environ wackos exist and must be factored in.

general homeowners who don't want landfills in their area live everywhere and must be factored in.

the limits yes are political but real.

Get Real

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

Reality: Landfills are safe

The reality is landfills are safe and frequently in people's back yards, usually converted to golf courses but you knew that too. Get real indeed:

Landfills Are Safe (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)

I live within a few miles of one with no problems or cares. Many people do and do not realize it.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

not my argument PT but

actually landfills produce methane.  Ive worked on projects to collect and use the methane in cogeneration plants.  Golf courses yes, building well not a good idea (check the whoop-de-doos on CA52 to see the settling).  The POLITICS of it PT, neither B nor i am saying the E-crowd is right but they use the legal system to twart new landfills which makes them a scarce commodity. 

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

I've already said this

I am well aware and have already said they produce methane. I also made not mention of buildings, I specifically said golf courses.

I fail to see how the environmentalists using the government and the legal system to perpetuate a lie is an argument for anything?

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

PopT

So, now you are diverting the argument, like I'm suggesting the diverting a portion of the municipal solid waste stream (MSW, in industry parlance).  Nice changing of the goal posts.  Typical of a liberal argument.  I'm disappointed in you for that, BTW.

I never said landfills weren't safe.  Because, I know they are safe.  I know how they're lined, I know how they're plumbed, I know how they're engineered, I know what they produce, I know how this product is processed.   In fact, I can tell you about the view from the top of one, because I was feet down on one not three weeks ago.  So keep it up. 

I can tell you more about landfills off the top of my head than you can in twenty minutes of googling.

So keep it up.  You look like an idiot. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde please stop lying

What are you talking about? Diverting the argument, I have done no such thing.

You think you can tell me more about landfills then I have read or wait ooops you don't know who I worked for either in the past.

So keep it up you look mentally insane.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

I could hardly care

About whom you worked for in the past, PopTech.

Having said that though, the "diverting" argument was in my very first post.  Concentrate now...it's a salient point...."diverting the waste stream".

And don't you dare call me a liar again.

That is the grossest form of debate here, and since you have engaged in it....all here shall certainly understand that you've lost.

Irrevocably. 

And yes, certainly, I can tell you, or anyone else here, more about landfills than you could possibly want to know.

Deal with that.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

You are a liar

You flat out lied saying I diverted the argument which I have never done. Thus you lied so sad for you. You tried to use that to make some irrelevant point about "diverting" the waste stream.

Keep being delusional that you could possible tell me something about landfills that is relevant to anything I care about.

Deal with reality.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!

You are the one slinging around the "liar" thing, Pop.

I don't take kindly to it, at all.

Furthermore, everyone who reads this thread will recognize the absolute pansy aspect of your retrograde action to the "liar" defence.

But keep it up, it's cute.  Not as cute as bal and the rest of the lib trollers, but cute. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

The Truth Hurts = Recycling is a Scam

Don't state lies and you will not be called a liar. I did not "divert the argument".

Anyone reading this thread will realize that you are only being defensive because you make money exploiting raw materials given to you through government mandates and emotional arguments. Nothing like making money off a lie since you are unable to in the free market because recycling is not cost competitive.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Hey Pop Tech

I haven't called you an a**hole...yet. 

But it's an iffy thing.

And everyone reading this thread will understand you are so far under water on this issue that a scuba tank wouldn't help.

Nice try, though.

But keep it up.....nobody gives anyone anything in an environment of governmental regulation.  Why don't you talk to dairy farmers or somesuch?

I'll say it one last time.  Put your drink down.

That's it though...I am over you calling me a liar.  As, I am sure, everyone is else here, as well.

If that is your first, last, and only debating point, you seriously lose, Buckwheat.

On substance, style, and points.

 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde - Continue this down below

I am continuing this down below if you are not too scared.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Back off the Kool-Aid

Hey Dude,

Lay off the Kool-Aid there a bit. One thing to not recycle. Another thing to be a tyrant about it. You save time and money not recycling - great for you. But you waste time and money trying to convince other people - like you say in your comment that you convince other people.

Maybe you should upgrade to Vista or dual-core. I think your chips are running down mate. Time to upgrade the old system there.

And get a better set of sources. Selecting a few wack jobs won't do it.

Lastly, great to hear nothing bad happening to you while living close to the landfil. Oh, what's that lump on your throat? And what the heck happened to your arm man?

Important lesson I learned. You can't beat Blonde. She's got 2 sources and 3 facts for your one.

AngryA

Wow, guy....that's the best compliment I've had all week! 

Thanks.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

<Bow>

It's a pleasure. And the truth. ;)

Lay off the fool-aid

Why would I upgrade to Vista and lose performance? I am running a quad-core BTW. But which one of my eight systems should I upgrade?

Yeah I agree The New York Times is a wack-job source.

Important lesson to learn I can always find more sources.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Scared?

Of you and your incessant links?

Hardly.

Irrational defense?  Seriously...if you had a clue, one little bitty clue, you'd know that recycling is not only efficient, it is profitable.

So, go open your landfill in your wide open spaces...write me a letter about it when you get it done.   

Sheesh....laughing at your emotionality over this issue.

It's business, fella, nothing more.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

The Recycling Lie

That is a flat out lie if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated. Please understand economics and the free market.

Sheesh laughing at your economic illiteracy since you started posting trying to defend your job.

Business my ass.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Okay, PopT

Here's a little exercise for you to Google...since you're such an expert at it.

Why don't you post a few links to the profits of companies who are involved in recycling....if they're such losers, they wouldn't be in business now, would they?

Business is just that.  If recycling weren't profitable....no one would pick up the recyclables now, would they?  They'd sit on the curb.

Try again. 

P.S.  "Government mandated" applies to alot of things.  Deal with it.  Businesses do. 

<edit>

That is a flat out lie if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated. Please understand economics and the free market.

I am calling you out, PopTech.  What is a flat out lie?   Prove I said that "if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated"....or admit you're flailing around here like a four year old.

You, sir, have just been hoisted upon your own petard.

 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Is that a joke?

Recycling companies make money because the government pays them with our tax money! Are you trying to tell me that recycling companies make money from the free market? Is that a joke?

Is recycling government mandated or not?

Would recycling companies be in business without the government?

Do recycling companies pay me to take my recycling?

I have had some idiotic argument but this takes the cake.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

No Pop

My company makes NO money off of governmental subsidies for recycling.

Yes, we make alot of money on recycling.  It's "consumer friendly".  For you, who apparently reside in Loma Linda...this means the consumer likes the thought of "contributing" to the health of the environment.

Do I care that the government mandates recycling?  Not really.  But business decisions are made in the particular regulatory environment.

Adapt and excel.

Dude....have another drink.

P.S.  I wouldn't pay you to recycle.  Pure "garbage" is more profitable.  But, if you knew the industry, as you claim...you'd know that.  Nuff said. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Who pays you?

Oh wait you just make money by exploiting raw materials that you should have to pay for in the free market by using the government and emotional lies. No wonder you are so defensive. It would be a shame to ruin your scam and put you out of business which is what I intend to do.

It must be nice to be dishonest and steal from people something you should have to pay for.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Oh, that's nice PopTech

You are devolving now...into serious insanity.

I don't set the market, nor the governmental regulations under which I function.  It is what it is.  So your emotionalism, about the current regulatory situation, is more than a little nuts.

"My Scam"?   Fella, I didn't invent it, nor advocate for it....but I conduct business there.  Profitably.  I am so veeerryyyy sorry if that offends you.  NOT.

As to your last....you are so going down for this little argument of yours....seriously, your logic left you two hours ago:

It must be nice to be dishonest and steal from people something you should have to pay for.

Why should I pay for something that you freely throw out?  You are proud of throwing it out.  You grandiously stated how much pleasure you got from throwing away garbage...and not recycling one iota of it.  So, kindly tell me how that is stealing from you? 

Later, PopTech.  You lost.  Big time.

Admit it and move on.  Stick to Global Warming or somesuch.  Your take on the Waste Industry, Landfills, Waste to Energy, Recycling, etc.....is just a child's view of the world.  An angry and recalcitrant child's view.

Ta ta.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Not making any sense

You have not made any sense in hours. Please explain how you make money in detail. If you refuse to do so then you have lost the argument.

I am in utter fear of "going down". Oh my.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

PT

you really have me ROTFLMAO. 

You've no idea what Blonde gets a paycheck for?

Reality PT:   recycling IS govermentally mandated deal with it.

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

The Mentally Insane

Are you mentally insane? The problem is that recycling is government mandated! What part of this do you now understand?

I do deal with it, I throw everything in the trash.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

;^)

:^)  yeah i'm nuts but i'm not the one telling Blonde she's a wrong while paying her salary.  That would be you

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

How am I paying her salary? My Secret Decoder ring does not work

Please explain how I am paying her salary? I left my secret decoder ring at home.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Do we really want to bury

Do we really want to bury our trash everywhere? Talk about a waste of space.

If recycling is run well, we need to do it. Because paper products alone, Americans use and throw away tons of it. 

Trees are a renewable resource

The more paper you waste (which is biodegradeable) the more trees that are planted.

Recycling is a waster of money and done so people can "feel better".

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

PT:    "The only way you