According to ABC reporter Elizabeth Vargas, "Americans are the most wasteful people on the planet. We use more than any other people on the planet." The network correspondent's America bashing came as she appeared on Friday's "Good Morning America" to promote a new "20/20" special on how United States citizens haphazardly abuse such amenities as showers and diapers. [Audio available here]
While appearing in front of hundreds of prop-diapers, Vargas lectured, "Well, if everybody lived like [the United States], we would need four, at least four, planet Earths to meet our resource demand and our dumping ground demand." Now, while Vargas did claim that the diapers she used would be given to a hospital, throughout the segment many more diapers, bottles and cut-down trees appeared as props. The question needs to be asked, did "20/20" and the National Geographic network, who co-produced a companion program, waste products, while at the same time haranguing the United States for doing the same thing?
The whole point of special seemed to be simply to make Americans feel guilty. Vargas began by lamenting the fact that "busy parents lose track of just how many [diapers] our children go through and we never stop to think about what has gone into making the average diaper." Next, however, she ruled out cloth diapers as an alternative. "But, have you ever considered what it takes to launder them," she asked. Vargas then proceeded to explain that, over the course of the time a baby would need cloth diapers, they use 22,455 gallons of water. So, no regular diapers and no cloth diapers? What would Ms. Vargas have Americans do instead? In April of 2004, CNSNews.com reported that militant environmentalists are actually encouraging "diaper free" babies:
Citing concerns about plastic disposable diapers clogging landfills and the amount of washing and detergents that cloth diapers require, many environmentalists are taking a page from tribal cultures and seeking to eliminate the use of the baby diapers altogether.
Is this the future that "Good Morning America" has in store for Americans? GMA is the same program that in 2007 twice featured a "noble" environmentalist who shuns toilet paper. Additionally, in April of 2007, to celebrate Earth Day, GMA co-host Diane Sawyer stood on a plastic bag mound and, at the same time, implored Americans to be less slothful. (The picture at right is representative of the "20/20" special. It looks as though some of the props are computer generated, but Vargas clearly interacts and picks up others. So, again, are the producers of this program being wasteful in order to decry waste?)
At the end of the GMA segment, guest co-host Bill Weir claims, "...If we just trim a little bit, it will have a wide ranging effect." By "trim," does he mean less showers or no diapers? Or both?
A transcript of the segment, which aired at 8:34am on April 11, follows:
BILL WEIR: Well, here's a question for you. Do you really know how much you throw out every day? From extra food to magazines to diapers, what you consume may shock you. Consider this: In your lifetime, you will drink more than 43,000 cans of soda. You will eat 12 shopping carts full of candy bars and generate 64 tons of waste. And that's just the beginning. National Geographic Channel and "20/20" look at the human consumption trend in a new special called "Human Footprint." And Elizabeth Vargas is here with more on this.
ELIZABETH VARGAS: Good morning, Bill. It's one thing to recite those statistics. It's another thing to actually see in one place all the bread you'll eat or all of the milk you'll drink in a lifetime. Take something that is a staple in most American homes, every American home, nearly, at least at one point, the diaper. We spend our first two and a half years in diapers, brilliantly designed for comfort, convenience and hygiene. Diapers are made to use once and throw away. So, busy parents lose track of just how many of them our children go through and we never stop to think about what has gone into making the average diaper. How many diapers require changing over our first two and a half years of life? It adds up fast and it looks like this. [A pile of diapers is in front of Vargas.] This is a little more than four diapers a day. 1518 diapers a year for a total of 3,796 diapers over our diaper-wearing time span. It's convenient for parents but all these diapers make a big impact on the wider world. Because there's more inside a disposable diaper than meets the eye, it takes half a pint of crude oil per diaper to make the plastic waterproof lining that encases them. This is the amount of crude oil [Graphic: 1,898 pints] you'll need for one just child. And over 30 months that single diaper baby will use 715 pounds of plastic. That's as heavy as three heavy weight wrestlers. And that's not all. The soft, fluffy padding on the inside requires the pulp of four and a half trees. Multiply that by the number of babies in the U.S. and the grand total is 18 billion disposable diapers thrown away every year. That's enough to stretch around the world 90 times. And all those diapers will long outlive the babies who soiled them. It could take 500 years or more for them to bio degrade. It could be even longer because we don't really know how long it takes plastic to break down. We may think that reusable diapers are the answer. They are made of national fibers and avoid plastic. But, have you ever considered what it takes to launder them? Washing all those diapers at home will use 22,455 gallons of water. Enough to fill a swimming pool of this size. It's also enough drinking water to quench the thirst of an average person for 93 years. So, in case you were thinking cloth is the option-- And also the heating oil you need to make that water hot to wash the cloth diapers and all of the detergent that goes down the drain. And remember, all of these diapers were sitting in the middle of, one American baby.
WEIR: One child. We should point out, not just a prop, We're going to send these over to the New York Foundling Hospital after we do that.
VARGAS: We're donating them.
WEIR: What about milk? How much do we consume?
VARGAS: We consume in a lifetime 13,056 pounds of milk. Obviously more as children, but three pints a week even as an adult. And you don't think about it. It's in your coffee. It's in your breakfast cereal, in your yogurt, in cakes. That sort of thing. And all of that adds up. We show in the special all of the pints of milk a single person will consume. And it goes from, you know, the front of the street down this, like, long residential street. It's pretty incredible.
WEIR: And water is such a precious resource. What about showers?
VARGAS: We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water.
WEIR: Each one of these [computer generated picture of rubber ducks appears onscreen], I guess, rubber ducks represent, one shower?
VARGAS: Each rubber duck represents one shower. And you can't see this. Again, those rubber ducks also goes across an entire field and finally go down to a pond. The-- I mean, the whole thing about this, Bill, is to think about in the aggregate, what you and I each will use. Americans are the most wasteful people on the planet. We use more than any other people on the planet.
WEIR: Right. And if we just trim a little bit, it will have a wide ranging effect.
VARGAS: Well, if everybody lived like us, we would need four, at least four, planet Earths to meet our resource demand and our dumping ground demand.
WEIR: Wow. A sobering, important reality check. Elizabeth thanks so much. And you can see much more tonight on "20/20" at 10/9 central. And "Human Footprint" airs Sunday, April 13, on the National Geographic Channel.
—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Buy a better diaper
April 11, 2008 - 11:32 ET by OldSailor88I have a one year old that's sporting diapers every day. With the exception of the fastening tabs, they're all paper. We've used several brands, and I haven't seen a plastic disposable diaper in a long time.
Stultus est sicut stultus facit
Well, isn't the outside
April 11, 2008 - 12:19 ET by motherbeltWell, the outside is plastic but that's very little. And I noticed, from changing my new grandson, that the disposable diapers are now much, much, thinner than they were when my youngest, now 19, was a baby. So less material is going into making them.
Now as to the "diaper-free" babies...how much water and detergent does it take to launder the clothing and bedding that those children soil? Their own, and others' I might add.....
There is simply no way to please these enviro-wackos. Nothing is good enough for them.
Scooping up after baby
April 11, 2008 - 13:49 ET by nkviking75I can't wait for the day when babies' nurseries contain a crib, a mobile, a night light, and several hundred pounds of kitty litter scattered on the floor.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
No way
April 11, 2008 - 17:57 ET by angryafricanGood one, but I am NOT cleaning the kitty litter. But maybe we can use it for compost somehow? A new meaning to baby food I guess.
motherbelt: In addition,
April 11, 2008 - 14:11 ET by QueenMummotherbelt: In addition, have you noticed how much liquid one of these diapers can absorb? That also means fewer diapers used. Sometimes my little nephew's butt resembles a Macy's Parade balloon.
This is a perfect example of the sort of tunnel vision we see in such reports. As if things will always remain static rather than considering that innovation never stops.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
20/20 Should Go 20'/20'
April 11, 2008 - 15:55 ET by Intellectual HonestyHey 20/20 why don't you set an example at combating waste by reducing your studio to 20' by 20'. Think of the energy saved on heat, ac, lights etc. Not mention the reduction in "hot air" emmitted from your speaking orafices.
Not to mention -
April 11, 2008 - 11:32 ET by mytwocentsABC news is the most useless on the planet -- perhaps the universe.
MSM: the most wasteful "info" outlet?
April 11, 2008 - 11:59 ET by TruthMongersince were talking waste...millions of "news" papers, web sights, radio and tv broadcasts report the same redundant "news" information everyday - that's extremely wasteful...
especially since it's all lies anyway...
and do we really need the entertainment industry wasting all the electricity it needs?
Save the planet - go Amish!
Sigh. If only we unloaded
April 11, 2008 - 11:36 ET by Roger the ShrubberSigh.
If only we unloaded our guns before stepping into the shower.
Shrub,
April 11, 2008 - 12:24 ET by fonzie2178Nice throwback!
Rog, I remember a saying
April 11, 2008 - 12:28 ET by bassndudeRog, I remember a saying back in the 60's, "Save water, shower with a friend", the bumper sticker had one each male and female playin in the water...:-)....ahhhh, those were the days...
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
And save even more
April 11, 2008 - 18:01 ET by angryafricanI try and save on central heating by sleeping with someone every single night. Hope to spread my fight against global warming and saving on oil in my own special little way. I am now going for the how-many-in-a-bed strategy, but my wife isn't as committed to fighting global warming as me. Sigh. It's lonely being the only treehugger in my house.
Good sense of humor AA but,
April 11, 2008 - 22:56 ET by KarmaGood sense of humor AA but, maybe the committments your wife holds dear are more important to her than a fictional catastrophe.
I'd keep her if I were you. She shows good judgement. (smile)
If only ---
April 11, 2008 - 11:37 ET by mytwocentsIf only the "news" organizations could stop wasting and throwing away all of those facts that make their stories relevant and truely newsworthy -- there's no telling how much we could save.
I wish all these America
April 11, 2008 - 11:39 ET by mattmI wish all these America Hating Lefties would just leave. Go to some Third World hell-hole and see if you can enjoy living in squalor... Vargas needs a diaper for her mouth.
Shutter, it reminds me of
April 11, 2008 - 11:42 ET by dscottShutter, it reminds me of a person who can't be satisfied with anything someone else does, such people enjoy micromanging the lives of others just to make them jump through hoops. You ever run into such a person? If you go right, they demand go left, if you wear a long sleeve shirt they carp about why you didn't wear a short sleeve shirt. We call this exercise of power being a Control Freak. Today it's diapers, bottled water and plastic bags, what's tomorrow????
These people are on a power trip, guilting people into doing something is the ultimate power trip because they don't have to use a gun to your head, they instead are using your own mind.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
VARGAS: We take 28,433
April 11, 2008 - 11:47 ET by bassndudeVARGAS: We take 28,433 showers. Sounds like she wants to quit showering. I bet she could only get the homeless on her show after that. And her crew would make her do the show from a remote location....the artic, maybe.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass, when you think about it,
April 11, 2008 - 12:39 ET by fonzie2178these Earth-dogs like Elizabeth Vargas and their "au naturale" style really want to live disgusting lives. Don't shower, don't throw out your garbage, don't drive a vehicle (just walk or ride a bike and work up some more sweat to add to the BO). Since when was water a precious resource, honestly? I look around and see an unlimited supply! I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to continue to live my clean, comfortable life the way I see fit, since none of us have any real, measureable impact on the environment anyway.
Priorities?
April 11, 2008 - 11:51 ET by acumen"A sobering, important reality check."
Indeed. I feel so ashamed.
If America would only kill even more babies in the womb, think of all the REALLY important things we could save like diapers and milk. (sarc off)
Oh btw, you notice how
April 11, 2008 - 11:59 ET by dscottOh btw, you notice how Vargas doesn't talk about the habits of wealthy people but of normal people having children? This is an indirect suggestion of not having children in the first place to avoid using the diapers. This all goes back to the failed prediction of the "Population Bomb" by Paul Ehrlich. The agenda is to get the peons to have less children thus with fewer of them they are cheaper to manipulate. Those social programs are expensive you know.
Vargas is so busy fingering habits of average people that she distracts from the true resource wasters, the super wealthy. Who do you think uses half the residential electricity of the US???? That would be the 5% of the population with 70% of the personal wealth of the US. So Vargas and Wier, how big is your house? Significantly larger than the average American of 2,500 square feet? Guilting the 95% of the population who has only 30% of the wealth, i.e. spending power, is just plain hypocrisy of the highest order. Who is it flying around in private jets using on one trip as much fuel as two cars commuting for an entire year? Take the Log out of your own eye before you point out the speck in ours.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Indeed! Liz, let's
April 11, 2008 - 12:46 ET by SumricaIndeed!
Liz, let's see those power bills of yours. Let's see what you're buying at the grocery. You using only one square in your efforts to save the trees, darlin'? By the way, passing interest: Is there any leather in those boats you're wearing on your feet?
The "average" American home
April 11, 2008 - 14:21 ET by Indiana JoeThe "average" American home is 2500 sq. ft? Damn, I'm living in less than half that. She must not mean me. Phwew!
Didn't know I was "underpriveleged." Where do I sign up for my guvmint check?
So do I, but you notice how
April 11, 2008 - 14:51 ET by dscottSo do I, but you notice how people like Vargas never get around to saying wealthy people have a responsibility to live more conservatively? You notice they never talk about not owning that 2nd or 4th house? You notice they never talk about defining what is an ample sized house? Apparently, if you can buy carbon offsets it doesn't matter (Al Gore). So if you're wealthy you can ease your guilt with money but if you are of the common sort, shame on you for taking up space!
People like Vargas are all too happy to tell other people what to do but they themselves have no problem dropping that C note on a pair of leather shoes or having a 10,000 sq ft house or paying $1,000 month in electricity. If they actually gave a crap about the poor, then they wouldn't be pushing up electric rates and gas prices by their own wanton consumption. When you over consume a limited supply of any product the price goes up for everyone not just on the people who consume copious amounts. That means people like Vargas are directly responsible for the high cost of electricity, gas and food which hurts the poor, but what does Vargas care? or Al Gore for that matter? It's called social responsibility of self restraint, but these people not only spend like there is no tomorrow, but they insist everyone including the poor pay a tax to cover up their own consumption.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
WTF?
April 11, 2008 - 12:02 ET by CobraMan"Diapers are made to use once and throw away."
Yes, and that helps to prevent the spread of fecal born diseases that KILL PEOPLE, ya twit! My God, she is DUMB!
"We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water."
What is she suggesting here? That we limit showers and risk
starting another plague like as happened so many times in the past? She
just keeps getting dumber and dumber!
You may not know it, ya twit, but aggressive personal hygiene keeps people from spreading several of the deadly and contagious diseases that have plagued mankind for millennia. Remember the Black Death? (The Queen takes a bath once a month, whether she needs it or not.) It also helps to prevent the spread of “common” diseases like colds and influenza. Aggressive personal hygiene is the best way to stop the spread of these and other dangerous pathogens. It’s a simple and inexpensive method that actually works. But you are actually trying to make me feel GUILTY about that? Well, guess what? It aint working!
Go back to your self-absorbed, guilt ridden, eco “friendly” yet harmful to human health and well-being, liberal fantasy dream world you inhabit, honey, and let the rest of us live the healthy, clean, respectable lifestyle we’ve worked so hard to create for ourselves and our children.
<"We take 28,433 showers.
April 11, 2008 - 15:37 ET by Seabeach4348<"We take 28,433 showers. That's a phenomenal amount of water." >
Good for us. And if you ever travelled out of the States, Ms. Vargas, you'd wish that some others did.
That's also a phenomenal display of brain-rot on your part, Ms. Vargas, and I wonder how much toilet paper you use.
You hysterical enviro-fruitcake guilt-mongers are really wearing thin on me.
The French
April 11, 2008 - 18:10 ET by angryafricanSorry, but even 28,433 showers won't take that smell of garlic away from the French.
Interesting little fact: Do you know why the French are known for their perfume? Because they took to bathing much later than the English. But they still had to do something about the smell. Not joking here - http://www.blackpearlbotanicals.com/natural_perfume_history.htm
"ABC Slams Americans as
April 11, 2008 - 12:13 ET by NL207"ABC Slams Americans as 'Most Wasteful People on the Planet'"
This dreadful situation requires immediate ammendment! I suggest we all turn off ABC TV during the time period April 24 - May 21 2008 to show solidarity with Energy Conservation measures and prove to ABC's editors that Americans are at heart, Green.
Ok, I'm going be the dead
April 11, 2008 - 12:15 ET by mandrakeOk, I'm going be the dead skunk in the road and ask the question "do you folks in the USA consider waste to be a virtue?"
I am of Scottish heritage and my inlaws are Lithuanian and Croatian. We regard ANY form of wastefulness as a sin! I suppose this makes us un-American...well so be it.
Just what are we wasting?
April 11, 2008 - 12:25 ET by CobraManJust what are we wasting? Most of the products we use, from glass, to metal, to plastics, to food scraps, to water, and even to the very air we breath, is collected, purified, and recycled for use again and again. The few products we don't recycle are either burned to produce energy (which, btw, renders toxic chemical inert) or is buried back into the very earth which supplied the raw materials that we used to create them. In reality, Americans actually “waste” far less than most, if not all, other societies on earth.
(on edit: That's "collected" and not "cleaned")
Well, I was just going on
April 11, 2008 - 12:36 ET by mandrakeWell, I was just going on what the post said. Maybe it's true maybe not. But that's quite a claim that Americans "waste" less than anyone. Do you have a link that proves that?
Just an observation, I have relatives in Michigan..they have cheese in a spray can there...no really..i'm not making this up!
mandrake, you asked "do you
April 11, 2008 - 12:47 ET by motherbeltmandrake, you asked "do you folks in the USA consider waste a virtue?" You'll have to specify what you consider "waste."
Cheese in a spray can has been around since I was a kid. In New England. Do you consider that waste?
You can't ask an open-ended question like that. You'll have to define "waste."
You'll have to define "waste."
April 11, 2008 - 12:58 ET by CobraManThat's easy. For people like mandrake, anything Americans do is a waste.
Cheese in a recyclable can? That’s a waste. Cheese in a discarded waxed paper wrapping? That’s NOT a waste
Ok, I surrender. I cannot
April 11, 2008 - 12:59 ET by mandrakeOk, I surrender. I cannot 'define' waste for anyone else other than myself or my family. To attempt that would be a 'waste' of my time. So you win...but cheese in a can??? Have it your way and good luck!
Well, mandrake, that's the
April 11, 2008 - 13:16 ET by motherbeltWell, mandrake, that's the problem with questions like that. No one considers waste a "virtue" but each of us has his/her own definition of "waste." You apparently think cheese in a can is waste. How about whipped cream in a can? Is that waste?
I get plastic bags from the supermarket..a possible "waste" to some people. But I then use them to line my wastebaskets and kitchen garbage can, which means I never buy those boxes of "garbage bags."
What I'm trying to say is, we all do what we can, in the process of our own lives. Just about everyone does something. Who are these liberals like Vargas etc. to tell us which things we have to do?
Yeah, MB. I think the
April 11, 2008 - 13:56 ET by fitzfongYeah, MB. I think the "skunk" has been run over so many times now that it's not going to get up. It's dead and starting to really stink. I'll call Animal Control so they can clean up what's left of its rotting corpse. Poor fella.
Well, USA consumes more
April 11, 2008 - 18:16 ET by angryafricanMaybe mandrake meant to show two points. And please this isn't a judgement - just a fact.
1. Per capita - the average American consumes more than anyone else and any other country in the world.
2. Per capita - the average American creates more carbage that goes to rubbish dumps (is that what you call it here?) than any other person or country in the world.
The two could well be linked.
Part of the problem? Only 50% of Americans have access to recycling (less than other developed countries, but more than developing countries).
Sounds like the Green Eyed Monster Speaking
April 11, 2008 - 18:35 ET by BlondeAnd if you look at the map in this link, you'll see that Canada and Europe are not far behind in per capita consumption. Hmmmm...first world countries. First class producers of wealth and goods. Furthermore:
Some consumption patterns reflect the rate of industrial, urban and infrastructure development rather than simply current wealth. Cement, for instance, has in recent years been used in greatest quantities in the rapidly growing Asian economies. The top three places for per-capita use in 1996 were occupied by the Republic of Korea, Taiwan and Malaysia. Each used more than twice as much cement per capita as the United States and four times as much as a typical established industrial nation with well-developed infrastructure, such as the United Kingdom.
Finally, Americans are increasing the pace and volume of recyling as it becomes easier and more economically feasible.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Yep
April 11, 2008 - 20:31 ET by angryafricanYep, I agree. Rate of industrialisation and level of industrialisation both have a direct correlation to waste and consumption - and type of waste and consumption. And recycling is increasingly becoming easier and more cost-effective in the US. I work with a number of companies who create waste (especially plastic) in finding new and innovative ways to reuse and recycle (and reduce). All down to the single most important point. Saving money (or making money)
I was just helping out the dude from Scotland who got off track. Can't blame him for trying to not create waste. It's such a small little hilly part of a crappy little island that if you throw a plastic bag out the window the landfil is filled up.
Who Cares - Recycling is a Waste of Time
April 11, 2008 - 18:53 ET by PopularTechI never recycle, if they want the materials I throw away they should pay me for them. Recycling is actually bad for the environment. Wasting paper actually increases the amount of trees that are planted so I waste as much as possible.
Bullshit! - Recycling (29min)
Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Your Choice PopTech
April 11, 2008 - 19:09 ET by BlondeBut recycling is NOT a waste of time...particularly if you have single stream recycling.
Furthermore, recycling diverts a large part of the waste stream away from your local landfill. Now, depending upon where you live, that may or may not be an issue. But landfill's only have x amount of years of useful life, getting all of the environmental permits, etc. to build a new landfill is next to impossible, and it costs money to dump at the 'fil. The closer the 'fil is to the end of it's useful life, the more it's going to cost to use up that valuable commodity...airspace.
Right now, it costs about $95 a ton to dispose of garbage in South Florida...without recycling, it would cost more. Landfill space is a commodity, just like anything else.
So recycle, or not....I make money either way.
<edit> Your link to the NYT is eleven years old...recycling technology (as well as the market for recycled materials) was in its infancy at that point. Talk about old news.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Yes Recycling is a waste of time
April 11, 2008 - 19:31 ET by PopularTechHow much waste that is "diverted" from landfills is irrelevant as we have essentially unlimited landfill space in this country. Getting "environmental permits" has nothing to do with available landfill space. Modern landfills are environmentally sound and safe, they even produce methane that can be used for energy.
How old an article is irrelevant what matters is it still costs far more to recycle than to use landfills and always will unless the material being recycled is in demand by the market. The only way you can pretend that recycling is cheaper is for government to increase the costs of using landfills through taxation and fees. Otherwise it is impossible and will always be cheaper through simple logic.
BTW I throw everything in the trash and there is nothing you can do about it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Unlimited Landfill Space?
April 11, 2008 - 19:40 ET by BlondeOh really?
Why don't you go try to open a new landfill and tell me how easy it is to do? Sure there's space aplenty. But that's only step one.
Landfill's are very, very profitable. So how is it that there aren't more of them? Getting a new landfill approved and certified is a herculean process. So that kind of demolishes your "irrelevant" statement.
I know all about waste to energy, dude.
Citing an eleven year old article does matter, in this instance. Time has changed the technology, and the commodity market. But suit yourself, you obviously don't care to evaluate logically anything about this issue.
As I said, I don't care whether you recycle or not. I make money either way.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Not going to get in on the
April 11, 2008 - 20:20 ET by motherbeltNot going to get in on the whole argument, but I will comment on this:
Getting a new landfill approved and certified is a herculean process.
True, and a lot of it is the NIMBY attitude. Everyone wants a landfill, but not where they live.
Yes Unlimited Landfill Space
April 11, 2008 - 20:21 ET by PopularTechArguing how hard it is to get a landfill approved thanks to nut job environmentalists has nothing to do with the reality that we have essentially unlimited landfill space. Nor is it an argument that landfills are environmentally safe.
No matter how much technology changes the costs of recycling will always be more than using a landfill in a free market unless the materials being recycled are in demand by the market. That is called basic logic. Arguing that nut-job enviromentalists use government to try and make using landfills more expensive then they would be in a free market is not a logical argument and intellectually dishonest.
It's OK to Throw it Away: Tell Your Kids (Roy E. Cordato, Ph.D. Economic)
Landfills Are Safe (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
Mandatory Recycling Wastes Resources, Harms Environment (The Heartland Institute)
Our Widespread Faith In Recycling Is Misplaced (Cato Institute)
Recycling is a waste of time (The Times, UK)
Recycling is Not the Answer (Cato Institute)
Recycling 'Like Throwing Money Away' (The Heartland Institute)
Recycling: Your Time Can Be Better Spent! (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
The Big City; Rethinking The Rites Of Recycling (The New York Times)
The Recycling Myth (The Ludwig von Mises Institute)
UF Study Points To Garbage, Recycling Trucks As Source Of Litter (Science Daily)
Wasting Resources to Reduce Waste: Recycling in New Jersey (Cato Institute)
I save a tremendous amount of time NOT recycling and have been convincing new people everyday not to.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Tell it to someone who is clueless PT
April 11, 2008 - 20:31 ET by BlondeArguing that nut-job enviromentalists use government to try and make using landfills more expensive then they would be in a free market is not a logical argument and intellectually dishonest.
No, it's a fact. Deal with it.
FYI...I've been in the industry for a long time....so don't try to "educate" me with your laundry list of links. I read that rediculous NYT one....enough of my time spent on your googling on a subject about which you know nothing...but, my oh my, about which you certainly do have strong feelings.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I am telling someone who is clueless = you
April 11, 2008 - 20:39 ET by PopularTechRecycling is a waste of time and money and I never do it ever. I throw everything right in the trash. What are you going to do about it? I have literally gotten most of my neighborhood to stop too.
The fact is that environmentalists push emotional irrational positions and then try to mandate them through government by force. I do deal with it by educating people that recycling is a waste of money and landfills are safe.
I obviously know more about the costs of recycling then you do but what else it new?
Thinking recycling is cost effective or good for the environment is an emotional position not and economic or logical one.
People are welcome to make up their own minds:
Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)
Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)
The internet is a free source of information and you cannot control the truth no matter how much you wish you could.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Oh, here we go again....
April 11, 2008 - 20:41 ET by BlondePosting the same old, and I mean, really old....link.
Dude, put down your drink.
I don't care if you recycle or not.
I don't care about the enviros (the fact is....mandate them by force), nor the stupid governmental regulations.
I deal with the reality of the business environment.
What did you particularly not understand about my statement to you..."I don't care whether you recycle or not"?
Who's being emotional, PopTech? Hmmmmm?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Have you no respect blonde?
April 11, 2008 - 20:47 ET by shawn228Don't you know his credentials? He is a 10 time recipient of the prestigious TFSCL award? :-)
Nope
April 11, 2008 - 20:49 ET by BlondeNone.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
My Credentials are Irrelevant to the Facts about Recycling
April 11, 2008 - 20:51 ET by PopularTechMy computer science credentials are irrelevant to the facts that using landfills is more cost effective and environmentally sound than recycling. But then again I always back up my positions with facts and sources not emotional arguments:
Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)
Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Pathetic
April 11, 2008 - 20:47 ET by PopularTechYou don't care yet you keep responding? You seem scared people may read the information in the links I provide, why would that be? Afraid they may learn the truth and put you out of business? It is the only reason I can come up with for your irrational defense of something proven to be cost ineffective and based solely on emotional positions = Recycling.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
reality PT
April 11, 2008 - 20:52 ET byenviron wackos exist and must be factored in.
general homeowners who don't want landfills in their area live everywhere and must be factored in.
the limits yes are political but real.
Get Real
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Reality: Landfills are safe
April 11, 2008 - 20:56 ET by PopularTechThe reality is landfills are safe and frequently in people's back yards, usually converted to golf courses but you knew that too. Get real indeed:
Landfills Are Safe (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
I live within a few miles of one with no problems or cares. Many people do and do not realize it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
not my argument PT but
April 11, 2008 - 21:04 ET byactually landfills produce methane. Ive worked on projects to collect and use the methane in cogeneration plants. Golf courses yes, building well not a good idea (check the whoop-de-doos on CA52 to see the settling). The POLITICS of it PT, neither B nor i am saying the E-crowd is right but they use the legal system to twart new landfills which makes them a scarce commodity.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
I've already said this
April 11, 2008 - 21:45 ET by PopularTechI am well aware and have already said they produce methane. I also made not mention of buildings, I specifically said golf courses.
I fail to see how the environmentalists using the government and the legal system to perpetuate a lie is an argument for anything?
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PopT
April 11, 2008 - 21:11 ET by BlondeSo, now you are diverting the argument, like I'm suggesting the diverting a portion of the municipal solid waste stream (MSW, in industry parlance). Nice changing of the goal posts. Typical of a liberal argument. I'm disappointed in you for that, BTW.
I never said landfills weren't safe. Because, I know they are safe. I know how they're lined, I know how they're plumbed, I know how they're engineered, I know what they produce, I know how this product is processed. In fact, I can tell you about the view from the top of one, because I was feet down on one not three weeks ago. So keep it up.
I can tell you more about landfills off the top of my head than you can in twenty minutes of googling.
So keep it up. You look like an idiot.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde please stop lying
April 11, 2008 - 21:42 ET by PopularTechWhat are you talking about? Diverting the argument, I have done no such thing.
You think you can tell me more about landfills then I have read or wait ooops you don't know who I worked for either in the past.
So keep it up you look mentally insane.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I could hardly care
April 11, 2008 - 21:50 ET by BlondeAbout whom you worked for in the past, PopTech.
Having said that though, the "diverting" argument was in my very first post. Concentrate now...it's a salient point...."diverting the waste stream".
And don't you dare call me a liar again.
That is the grossest form of debate here, and since you have engaged in it....all here shall certainly understand that you've lost.
Irrevocably.
And yes, certainly, I can tell you, or anyone else here, more about landfills than you could possibly want to know.
Deal with that.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You are a liar
April 11, 2008 - 21:56 ET by PopularTechYou flat out lied saying I diverted the argument which I have never done. Thus you lied so sad for you. You tried to use that to make some irrelevant point about "diverting" the waste stream.
Keep being delusional that you could possible tell me something about landfills that is relevant to anything I care about.
Deal with reality.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
April 11, 2008 - 22:08 ET by BlondeYou are the one slinging around the "liar" thing, Pop.
I don't take kindly to it, at all.
Furthermore, everyone who reads this thread will recognize the absolute pansy aspect of your retrograde action to the "liar" defence.
But keep it up, it's cute. Not as cute as bal and the rest of the lib trollers, but cute.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
The Truth Hurts = Recycling is a Scam
April 11, 2008 - 22:14 ET by PopularTechDon't state lies and you will not be called a liar. I did not "divert the argument".
Anyone reading this thread will realize that you are only being defensive because you make money exploiting raw materials given to you through government mandates and emotional arguments. Nothing like making money off a lie since you are unable to in the free market because recycling is not cost competitive.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Hey Pop Tech
April 11, 2008 - 22:25 ET by BlondeI haven't called you an a**hole...yet.
But it's an iffy thing.
And everyone reading this thread will understand you are so far under water on this issue that a scuba tank wouldn't help.
Nice try, though.
But keep it up.....nobody gives anyone anything in an environment of governmental regulation. Why don't you talk to dairy farmers or somesuch?
I'll say it one last time. Put your drink down.
That's it though...I am over you calling me a liar. As, I am sure, everyone is else here, as well.
If that is your first, last, and only debating point, you seriously lose, Buckwheat.
On substance, style, and points.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Blonde - Continue this down below
April 11, 2008 - 22:30 ET by PopularTechI am continuing this down below if you are not too scared.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Back off the Kool-Aid
April 11, 2008 - 21:11 ET by angryafricanHey Dude,
Lay off the Kool-Aid there a bit. One thing to not recycle. Another thing to be a tyrant about it. You save time and money not recycling - great for you. But you waste time and money trying to convince other people - like you say in your comment that you convince other people.
Maybe you should upgrade to Vista or dual-core. I think your chips are running down mate. Time to upgrade the old system there.
And get a better set of sources. Selecting a few wack jobs won't do it.
Lastly, great to hear nothing bad happening to you while living close to the landfil. Oh, what's that lump on your throat? And what the heck happened to your arm man?
Important lesson I learned. You can't beat Blonde. She's got 2 sources and 3 facts for your one.
AngryA
April 11, 2008 - 21:23 ET by BlondeWow, guy....that's the best compliment I've had all week!
Thanks.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
<Bow>
April 11, 2008 - 21:36 ET by angryafricanIt's a pleasure. And the truth. ;)
Lay off the fool-aid
April 11, 2008 - 21:31 ET by PopularTechWhy would I upgrade to Vista and lose performance? I am running a quad-core BTW. But which one of my eight systems should I upgrade?
Yeah I agree The New York Times is a wack-job source.
Important lesson to learn I can always find more sources.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Scared?
April 11, 2008 - 21:05 ET by BlondeOf you and your incessant links?
Hardly.
Irrational defense? Seriously...if you had a clue, one little bitty clue, you'd know that recycling is not only efficient, it is profitable.
So, go open your landfill in your wide open spaces...write me a letter about it when you get it done.
Sheesh....laughing at your emotionality over this issue.
It's business, fella, nothing more.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
The Recycling Lie
April 11, 2008 - 21:21 ET by PopularTechThat is a flat out lie if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated. Please understand economics and the free market.
Sheesh laughing at your economic illiteracy since you started posting trying to defend your job.
Business my ass.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Okay, PopT
April 11, 2008 - 21:30 ET by BlondeHere's a little exercise for you to Google...since you're such an expert at it.
Why don't you post a few links to the profits of companies who are involved in recycling....if they're such losers, they wouldn't be in business now, would they?
Business is just that. If recycling weren't profitable....no one would pick up the recyclables now, would they? They'd sit on the curb.
Try again.
P.S. "Government mandated" applies to alot of things. Deal with it. Businesses do.
<edit>
That is a flat out lie if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated. Please understand economics and the free market.
I am calling you out, PopTech. What is a flat out lie? Prove I said that "if recycling was profitable it would NOT have to be government mandated"....or admit you're flailing around here like a four year old.
You, sir, have just been hoisted upon your own petard.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Is that a joke?
April 11, 2008 - 21:35 ET by PopularTechRecycling companies make money because the government pays them with our tax money! Are you trying to tell me that recycling companies make money from the free market? Is that a joke?
Is recycling government mandated or not?
Would recycling companies be in business without the government?
Do recycling companies pay me to take my recycling?
I have had some idiotic argument but this takes the cake.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
No Pop
April 11, 2008 - 21:43 ET by BlondeMy company makes NO money off of governmental subsidies for recycling.
Yes, we make alot of money on recycling. It's "consumer friendly". For you, who apparently reside in Loma Linda...this means the consumer likes the thought of "contributing" to the health of the environment.
Do I care that the government mandates recycling? Not really. But business decisions are made in the particular regulatory environment.
Adapt and excel.
Dude....have another drink.
P.S. I wouldn't pay you to recycle. Pure "garbage" is more profitable. But, if you knew the industry, as you claim...you'd know that. Nuff said.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Who pays you?
April 11, 2008 - 21:50 ET by PopularTechOh wait you just make money by exploiting raw materials that you should have to pay for in the free market by using the government and emotional lies. No wonder you are so defensive. It would be a shame to ruin your scam and put you out of business which is what I intend to do.
It must be nice to be dishonest and steal from people something you should have to pay for.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Oh, that's nice PopTech
April 11, 2008 - 22:05 ET by BlondeYou are devolving now...into serious insanity.
I don't set the market, nor the governmental regulations under which I function. It is what it is. So your emotionalism, about the current regulatory situation, is more than a little nuts.
"My Scam"? Fella, I didn't invent it, nor advocate for it....but I conduct business there. Profitably. I am so veeerryyyy sorry if that offends you. NOT.
As to your last....you are so going down for this little argument of yours....seriously, your logic left you two hours ago:
It must be nice to be dishonest and steal from people something you should have to pay for.
Why should I pay for something that you freely throw out? You are proud of throwing it out. You grandiously stated how much pleasure you got from throwing away garbage...and not recycling one iota of it. So, kindly tell me how that is stealing from you?
Later, PopTech. You lost. Big time.
Admit it and move on. Stick to Global Warming or somesuch. Your take on the Waste Industry, Landfills, Waste to Energy, Recycling, etc.....is just a child's view of the world. An angry and recalcitrant child's view.
Ta ta.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Not making any sense
April 11, 2008 - 22:21 ET by PopularTechYou have not made any sense in hours. Please explain how you make money in detail. If you refuse to do so then you have lost the argument.
I am in utter fear of "going down". Oh my.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT
April 11, 2008 - 21:33 ET byyou really have me ROTFLMAO.
You've no idea what Blonde gets a paycheck for?
Reality PT: recycling IS govermentally mandated deal with it.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
The Mentally Insane
April 11, 2008 - 21:38 ET by PopularTechAre you mentally insane? The problem is that recycling is government mandated! What part of this do you now understand?
I do deal with it, I throw everything in the trash.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
;^)
April 11, 2008 - 22:24 ET by:^) yeah i'm nuts but i'm not the one telling Blonde she's a wrong while paying her salary. That would be you
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
How am I paying her salary? My Secret Decoder ring does not work
April 11, 2008 - 23:54 ET by PopularTechPlease explain how I am paying her salary? I left my secret decoder ring at home.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Do we really want to bury
April 11, 2008 - 22:36 ET by balboaDo we really want to bury our trash everywhere? Talk about a waste of space.
If recycling is run well, we need to do it. Because paper products alone, Americans use and throw away tons of it.
Trees are a renewable resource
April 11, 2008 - 23:58 ET by PopularTechThe more paper you waste (which is biodegradeable) the more trees that are planted.
Recycling is a waster of money and done so people can "feel better".
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT: "The only way you
April 12, 2008 - 17:17 ET by red_dragon311PT: "The only way you can pretend that recycling is cheaper is for government to increase the costs of using landfills through taxation and fees."
Blonde : "Getting a new landfill approved and certified is a herculean process"
Blonde: "So how is it that there aren't more of them?"
i think the question was answered before you asked it.
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
Oh no red...man don't bring
April 12, 2008 - 17:24 ET by bigtimerOh no red...man don't bring this up again..it went on for endless hours...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Quite so, Red D.
April 12, 2008 - 17:28 ET by BlondeI should know better than getting into discussions with hard-heads like PopTech.
Tried as I might, I was unable to dispel his mistaken notions. When it got to his foul cursing, I knew it was pointless.
But, if anyone else was educated about landfills, recycling, regulations, etc., I guess it was worth it.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Can't Argue with the Facts
April 12, 2008 - 19:18 ET by PopularTechThough if you never clarify your position, distort mine through assumptions and declare victory you can think you are right but it does not make it so.
You utterly failed to prove how government mandated recycling is not a waste or time.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Listen
April 12, 2008 - 19:29 ET by BlondeYou arrogant a **.
Prove where I stated "government mandated recycling is not a waste of time".
You can't do it, because that wasn't my premise at all. Nice try a twisting my position, though.
Done with you....you'll devolve into the f-bomb next. Nice.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Revelation!!!
April 12, 2008 - 20:56 ET by PopularTechI have no idea what your position was because you refused to answer simple questions yet kept declaring that I was wrong based on idiotic assumptions by you. You also claimed you read my links which is absolute Bullshit! Because if you did you would realize that they are talking about government mandated recycling programs!
I actually realized you were talking about something different which is why I started asking direct questions at the bottom of which you could not answer! If you did I could of helped clarify it for you.
The only one twisting anything is you by making ASSUMPTIONS!
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE be done with me - yet you never stop responding! Trust me I would much rather talk to a 5 year old who can answer direct questions so I can get to the bottom of something much faster instead of people who make idiotic assumptions!
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Of course, you have no idea
April 13, 2008 - 22:09 ET by BlondeYou arrogant ass....of course you have no idea what my original position was.
You don't read...you just post, and post incessant links.
Having said that tho....you kept on trying to ascribe something to me which I never said. Nice liberal tactic, there PopT.
I don't have a thing to do with the "mandated" (nor have I advocated it here, if you'd just take your head out of your *** for five seconds and read my posts) recycling.
Nice try at moving the argument around though, really.
I function in the world of reality. Where it is profitable to recycle.
Now, for takedown number two of your mistatements on what I've posted here.
I never said one word about how expensive it was in South Florida to open a landfill. If you bother to read back through this thread, you shall see that I made reference to the price of disposing of garbage, here, by the ton. Nothing more. So sorry, you lose again, reading deficient one.
Finally, I did make reference to how expensive it is to open a landfill...innumerable governmental permits, etc. But never, not once, did I make reference to that being in South Florida.
So, PopTech, suck it up. You have been totally reading deficient, stupid, obtuse, and totally gross.
Not to mention an ungentlemanly cad.
Seriously, I don't mind someone like you, devolving into gross behaviour...it just proves my point. So unleash the F-Bomb again...it's soooooo cute.
And don't you just love your own little nasty tactic...me posting to you, while you're not here to answer? It's kind of cute, doncha think?
Keep it up, Pop. Everyone here loves it.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I won't curse, but I
April 12, 2008 - 19:28 ET by red_dragon311I won't curse, but I am fully in PT's corner on this. I find recycling a waste of time and money too, and I hate that I am forced to pay for it reguardless of wheather I recycle or not, it's part of me garbage bill. So yes we are being forced to do something that is bass akwards.
You are in the recyling industry, good for you, I have had some questions for a long time....and here they are
how many trees are we saving with the polution that is produced from recycling paper? bleaching the paper, processing it, turing it into pulp, then back into paper that can olny be used for.....toilet paper
How benificial is it to the Earth, when recycling a plactic bottle uses more energy (produces more evil carbon) then making a new plastic bottle?
Why are there not roving people picking up old papers, plastic, to recycle it, when we have people picking soda cans out of the garbage to recycle them?
How can you make money in an industry, that costs more for upkeep and mantiance the profits made?
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
red dragon
April 12, 2008 - 19:38 ET byread the whole deal the PT-Blonde stuff began with PT claiming that there was unlimited landfill availability.
The reality is that politically and environmentally that is not true, dealing in reality with the government regulations as fact recycling pays.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
I did and i still agree
April 12, 2008 - 19:44 ET by red_dragon311I did and i still agree with PT,
and
"...with the government regulations as fact recycling pays."
so without government regulations it does not.
I really don't have a problem with getting rid of government regulations. they are the reason I am paying $3.60 for a gallon of gas.
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
and if we get rid of:
April 12, 2008 - 21:21 ET by--emissions regulations we can 45 mpg easy
--political crap we drill ANWR and other places
--political crap we have nuclear energy
we play the cards we are dealt, fight the winnable battles.
I tell you this, if you can open a landfill in SD county you stand to make millions so if we really do have unlimited landfill spots available, do it.
“If wishes was horses we all would ride” -- my Mom
Defeatism: Nuclear, ANWR, Diesel Cars
April 12, 2008 - 21:46 ET by PopularTechSince the main problem with most of your arguments is a lack of education on them by the public then they are winnable battles. How about some facts:
- 104 commercial Nuclear Reactors are operating in the United States (EIA)
- No new commercial Nuclear Reactor has come on line in the United States since 1996 (EIA)
- France Generates 80% of it's Electricity from Nuclear Power (BBC)
- China plans to build 30 more Nuclear Reactors by 2020 (USA Today)
- Russia plans to build 4 more Nuclear Reactors in India (RIA Novosti)
- There are plenty of Uranium resources to sustain the growth of Nuclear Power (NEA)
So what is the argument that 104 - 30 year old plants are safer then modern ones or is nuclear power only ok for France, China, Russia and India but not us? The country that invented it?
- The U.S.G.S. estimates 4.0 billion barrels of oil in the Central North Slope in Alaska (USGS)
- The U.S.G.S. estimates 10.4 billion barrels of oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska (USGS)
- The U.S.G.S. estimates 10.6 billion barrels of oil in the National Petroleum Reserve (NPRA) in Alaska (USGS)
What is the argument that we will destroy the arctic tundra by drilling for oil? But the Gulf of Mexico, Texas and every other part of the planet is ok just not the remote frozen ass cold parts of Alaska where no one lives? Why?
We have 45 MPG cars they are called Diesel:
- The Case for Diesel: Clean, Efficient, Fast Cars (Hybrids Beware!) (Popular Mechanics)
- 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDi Clean Diesel: 50-MPG (Popular Mechanics)
- Volkswagen’s Polo TDi Clean-Diesel: 70-MPG May Head Stateside (Popular Mechanics)
- No Chance For American Volkswagen Lupo TDi Diesel: 99-MPG (The Car Connection)
So what are Diesel cars only ok for Europe but not us? The leftists idiolize France and England but are shown to be hypocrites when you suggest taking some of their ideas.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
so you agree with me?
April 12, 2008 - 21:51 ET bypolicies must be changed before dreams become reality?
(now lets send some DDT to Africa and save lives)
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Policy Changes
April 12, 2008 - 22:23 ET by PopularTechObviously policies need to be changed such as abolishing all mandatory government recycling programs. But I would not call it "dreams", I would call it instead educating the uneducated.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
There is effectively unlimited landfill space available!
April 12, 2008 - 21:08 ET by PopularTechHe actually did read what I stated which is why he gets it.
The recycling con started when a barge of garbage floated around looking for a place to offload in the 80s which was used as propaganda that we were running out of space to dump our trash. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have essentially unlimited landfill space. Fact:
- All the garbage we will generate in the next 10 centuries will require less than 35 square miles to a height of only 300 feet
Government regulation for landfills is different per state. So saying that they are very strict and expensive in Florida does not make recycling more cost effective. Nor is that the case for every state.
This is irrelevant to the argument that government MANDATED recycling "pays", it does not! If it did it would not have to be government mandated!!! What part of this do you not understand? Am I the only one who ever took any course on economics?
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT... Good Lord do I
April 12, 2008 - 21:17 ET by bigtimerPT...
Good Lord do I remember that barge and the endless news daily on the networks....incessant to put it mildly... the talking heads were..it was hysterical, maddening, but hysterical.
How dumb did they really think we all were out here...
Oh wait they still do...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Lord love a duck! Are you
April 12, 2008 - 21:21 ET by mandrakeLord love a duck! Are you still at it? Give it a rest man!
BTW, your claim that 1000 years of garbage 'we' generate (who exactly is 'we'?) can be stored in 35 square miles doesn't sound quite right. You got a computer model that backs that up?
No I have facts and sources to back it up
April 12, 2008 - 22:02 ET by PopularTechOur Widespread Faith In Recycling Is Misplaced (Cato Institute)
"A. Clark Wiseman of Spokane's Gonzaga University figures that, at the current rate, Americans could put all of the trash generated over the next 1,000 years into a landfill 100 yards high and 35 miles square. Or dig a similar-size hole and plant grass on top after it was filled."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Ok Scotty lets do some
April 12, 2008 - 22:04 ET by red_dragon311Ok Scotty lets do some math
and the We he was refering to was WE in the USA, so don't worry your tamed head over it. and
ok 35 miles squared is about 6 miles by 6 miles. a little less 10 kilometers by a little less then 10 kilometers ( i know you don't understand our strange American ways so i figured the kilometers would help)
now that 300' feet, about 100 meters high
thats 100 American Football fields long by 200 American football fields wide (100 yards long 50 yards wide) and an American Football field length wise up and down.
Land fill get used to make gold courses, an average golf course is 6 and 1/2 acres, about 7000 square feet, a little more the a square mile.
Land fills take about 7 years to fill.
so lets take 7 years to fill about a square mill at 50 feet high
7 x 35 = 245 times 6 (50 divided by 300) last leaves us aprox 1470 years to fill a lanst fill 35 sqr miles in area by 300 feet high
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
Ok, I stand corrected. I'm
April 12, 2008 - 22:24 ET by mandrakeOk, I stand corrected. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I was kinda wondering where are those lovely golf courses springing up around Toronto were coming from..now I know.
Still don't think I'm going to take up golf anytime soon though, knowing about all the toxic waste I've thrown out in my life.
Thankyou Red Dragon!
April 12, 2008 - 19:08 ET by PopularTechSomeone who actually reads what I post and does not jump to conclusions or make assumptions based on something I never said.
My point is clear, GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING is NOT cost effective to landfills and Blonde responded that government regulation and taxes makes landfills expensive. THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT! That is the equivalent of the government taxing gasoline until it is more expensive than Ethanol and declaring Ethanol more cost effective! Which is absolute nonsense.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
what really tipped it for
April 12, 2008 - 19:32 ET by red_dragon311what really tipped it for me was the Greenpeace founder.....THE G**DA*N FOUNDER of the the biggest enviro-wack-job organization says that what they are spewing is inncorect.
and that Algore calls "deniers" flat earthers.........NAIL IN THE COFFIN!!!!!!!! AGW IS A SCAM!!!!!!!!!!!
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
what you said PT
April 12, 2008 - 21:36 ET byGetting "environmental permits" has nothing to do with available landfill space.
what i said: if you can't get a permit it's not available (otherwise build it and make millions)
try all you can to change the question.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
An Argument you created
April 12, 2008 - 22:13 ET by PopularTechFirst of all I never brought up the cost of opening a landfill in Florida, Blonde did. I specifically brought up the fact that we have essentially unlimited landfill space as in LAND AREA IN THE COUNTRY. This is to counter the widespread myth that we are running out of space to dump our trash.
You keep making stupid arguments that because in Florida it is not easy to get APPROVED for one (I have no idea what the status is in Florida nor do I care) not that there is no land available and that this somehow invalidated my obvious fact, please.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
i'm in Florida?
April 12, 2008 - 22:24 ET byyou made an assertion so i challenge you to open a landfill in San Diego you will makes tens of millions if your assertion is correct. (that available landfill space is unlimited) Trucking trash out of the county is not viable as the emmissions and costs are prohibitive.
link from the belly of the beast (NPR)
Gregory Canyon a landfill could endanger the region's water supply. not need a new landfill anyway because recycling has made landfills unnecessary.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
botg - This is Stupid
April 12, 2008 - 22:33 ET by PopularTechI AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE COST OR DIFFICULTY OF OPENING A LANDFILL DUE TO GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS (least of all in California)
I AM TALKING ABOUT THE AVAILABLE LAND AREA IN THE COUNTRY THAT CAN BE USED FOR LANDFILLS!!!
What part of this do you not understand?
I said Blonde lived in Florida!
"Recycling has made landfills unnecessary" - excuse me while I go laugh my ass off.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
okielee dokielee that's our
April 12, 2008 - 22:50 ET byokielee dokielee
that's our Pam Slater funny lady
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Be careful of how you use
April 11, 2008 - 20:24 ET by dscottBe careful of how you use the stats you are quoting. There is a major difference between a mean and a simple average. An average is determined by totaling everything and then dividing by the total number. A mean is determined by using the greatest number of values and tossing the outliers. The average you're quoting is comprised of groups of people who consume at different levels. In the US a small group of people namely 5% of the population owns 70% of the wealth and therefore has 70% of the spending power. By lumping in this group with the 95% of the US population who have the remaining 30% of the wealth you skew the average in favor the average of the minority.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Agree
April 11, 2008 - 21:04 ET by angryafricanHey D - not sure if the response was to mine. Difficult to track it down with so many comments in between. But I agree on the mean and averages. It differs in the detail - and for other countries as well. And agree with your earlier comments that 95% of the population pay for what 5% is doing.
Yes, and this is why I have
April 12, 2008 - 17:14 ET by dscottYes, and this is why I have heart burn with people like Gore, Penn and others whose lifestyle is so far beyond anything the normal person lives and then they have the arrogance to tell us peons to use less. This is like a cow telling the chickens not to eat so much grain. When Gore and Penn come down to our level of consumption, then they can start suggesting how I can save some energy. I don't have the money to throw around to waste energy, so they can get off their high horses and stop lecturing me about consuming the earth. And they can knock off the anti-American badmouthing.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Cheese in a can
April 11, 2008 - 16:22 ET by CobraMan"but cheese in a can???"
Ever eaten Haggis? How about Lutefisk? Kimshie? Goats Head Soup? Cow Eyes? Headcheese?
UGGGGG! Talk about a waste of good compost material!
When it comes to food, one man’s garbage is another man’s delicacy. And each culture packages their food in whatever manor they think is appropriate. I don’t think any of that is a waste.
When it comes to food packaging, canned foods resist spoilage longer than almost all other means available to us and, therefore, they actually reduce waste and decrease the number people sickened or killed by food poisoning. I would think that you would appreciate our commitment to reducing waste and keeping people healthier instead of wasting food by allowing it to spoil and make people sick. But, hay, to each their own.
Ugh...
April 11, 2008 - 16:29 ET by sarcasmoLutefisk doesn't even belong in the same post as the words "resist spoilage." Speaking as a lover of exotic foods & tastes, let me say: Don't try lutefisk unless you're Norwegian, in which case you have to eat it. It's rotten fish. Trust me...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I've eaten it
April 11, 2008 - 16:39 ET by CobraManI know, I'm half Norwegian and I've eaten it, once. That why I said "UGGGGGG!"
In the same respect, Kimshie is spoiled cabbage that is mixed with various spices, stored in clay pots, and allowed to ferment for weeks while being buried in the dirt. It's very spicy and not that bad, not as bad as Lutefisk anyways.
Oh, I liked that one...
April 11, 2008 - 16:46 ET by sarcasmoBut they spelled it "kimchee." It was very hot and spicy, and I was told there were more powerful varieties, so I probably got the milder "Americanized" version. With kimchee I just wanted to drink. The fish was another experience, best not repeated...
Heh. I've seen Thais complain about how slow Tabasco comes out of the bottle! :) Now THOSE are the hard core hot-food addicts of this world...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Have you guys seen the
April 11, 2008 - 20:22 ET by motherbeltHave you guys seen the CitiBank(?) Credit Card commercial with the father and son who go to Norway? "We tried the local fare" (as each pushes the plate of fish to the other....) LOL Must be lutefisk.
mb...you too?
April 11, 2008 - 20:35 ET by BlondeLOL.
Lutefisk. Another great thing about getting a divorce (besides no more mother-in-law). No more lutefisk at Christmas.
Nastiest stuff I've ever smelled....or tasted. Sheesh!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Laddie, of course I've
April 11, 2008 - 18:32 ET by mandrakeLaddie, of course I've eaten Haggis and some other foods you listed. They didn't come out of spray can. No real food ever came out spray can.
To get back to the original point..why must everything must be so over packaged? For example, I buy a pair of scissors at my local hardware store, they are encased in some plastic that can only be broken with a chain saw..this to me is waste.
For example, I buy a pair
April 11, 2008 - 18:38 ET by bigtimerFor example, I buy a pair of scissors at my local hardware store, they are encased in some plastic that can only be broken with a chain saw..this to me is waste.
mandrake I couldn't agree more with this point you just made....aggravating is putting it politely, seems they originally stated wrapping things this way because of shop-lifiting, now they are doing it for convenience ect...it is aggravating enough to to take that chain saw and find somebody who did this wrapping at times...lol.
Btw...we use the phrase it's gonna' take the chain saw to open this too...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I agree with you (Don't
April 11, 2008 - 18:42 ET by motherbeltI agree with you (Don't faint, now!) on the packaging thing. But I think a lot of that sealed bubble-pack stuff is to prevent theft and injury (some parents just don't care what their kids get into in stores).
OOPS! GMTA again, bt!! LOL
Where's you link?
April 11, 2008 - 12:49 ET by CobraManAhh, the old "where's your link" defense. Well, two can play at that game, so here ya go: Hay, buddy, if you don't believe me than YOU provide a link proving me wrong.
BTW, that can of cheese you mentioned was most likely made from recycled metal and the empty can (along with tens of thousands of other similar cans) will be collect, shredded, cleaned, and melted down to make even more cans. We do this on a daily basis here in America. So, where's the waste?
delete
April 11, 2008 - 12:44 ET by motherbeltdelete
My people are not Scots at
April 11, 2008 - 13:08 ET by NL207My people are not Scots at all. We are Normans, Plantagenets in fact, but we are as tight fisted and frugal as any Scotsman. There is no estate so large that it cannot be dissipated by wastrels.
No, we consider meeting
April 11, 2008 - 13:24 ET by fitzfongNo, we consider meeting consumer demand to be a virtue. But we're currently having to contend with hand-wringing socialists who like to call themselves "environmentalists" poisoning the industries that normally meet these demands through onerous and unneccessary government regulation...all by appealing to some sense of guilt about "waste" and "overconsumption".
Which reminds me of a joke my local Scottish bartender used to tell: What's the difference between a Scotsman and an orange? You can get a drink out of an orange.
BTW
April 11, 2008 - 12:16 ET by CobraMan"That's a phenomenal amount of water."
BTW, there's something you forgot to mention. All that water is treated and is returned back to the ecosystem cleaner than when it was first collected from nature. That's a phenomenal amount of fresh, clean, safe water for wildlife to enjoy. Why didn’t you inform your viewers about THAT useful factoid?
Enviro-commies
April 11, 2008 - 12:18 ET by sam.i.amwill not be satisfied until our standard of living has decreased to match the third world.
We need to:
* Eat less
* Spend less
* Produce less
* Consume less
* Drive less
* Live in a smaller house
* Live in a crowded city
* Drive a smaller car
* Turn out our lights
* Don't bathe
* Don't grow our lawn
* Don't cut our lawn
* Don't water our lawn
* Don't eat too much red meat
* Don't drink milk
When all is said and done, enviro-commies have their prototype American: the illegal immigrant.
The illegal immigrant provides the best of both worlds and should be revered; he simultaneously reduces our standard of living while improving that of his home country.
* He comfortably lives in squalor, in cramped conditions
* He makes little money
* He drives down our wages
* He sends back his discretionary income to his home country
* He doesn't spend lavishly in our country
* He might even carpool to work!
The enviro-commies will not be satisfied until parts of our country have been turned into the worst slums of India, Mexico, or Brazil
One thing you forgot
April 11, 2008 - 12:30 ET by Johnny LucidThe enviro-mentalists would also like us to:
Die young (say by age 40)
Homo sapiens *are* a plague on "Mother Earth" y'know!
;-)
Regarding your "live in a
April 11, 2008 - 12:34 ET by motherbeltRegarding your "live in a smaller house" and "live in a crowded city" that's already underway with the "open area", "anti-sprawl" and "sustainable development" crowd.
They hate people living in suburbs (with their cars that they drive into the city), they hate building houses that "use up" open areas, etc and the emptying of the cities and the "overusage" of land to build single family homes. Given their way, people would live in high-rises in the cities, within walking distance of where they work.
A lot of this was going on in Minnesota when I lived there; may still be going on now.
And no balloon for you!!
April 11, 2008 - 12:45 ET by mastersofdeceithttp://www.signonsan...
"What would Ms. Vargas have Americans do instead?"
April 11, 2008 - 12:21 ET by richflanjWhy, just have the nanny deal with it, of course!! Just like she and all the other limosine liberal hypocrites do. Sarcasm off.
"It's my damn planet, too. I'll leave a fracking footprint if I want to." - Me, today
Self-referntial
April 11, 2008 - 12:31 ET by Johnny LucidGreat quote - I might borrow it sometime.
Morons - Total Rubbish
April 11, 2008 - 12:27 ET by Johnny LucidThe MSM is populated by enviro-mentalist morons who know NOTHING about materials, their production, use and environmental fate. They studiously avoid interviewing anyone with any qualifications to dispute the BS they are fed by the cadre of professional environmental activists who staff organizations which get a pass from so-called journalists, being called "non-partisan" or "public interest" groups, i.e. EWG, NET, Greenpeace, NRDC, ED, USPIRG (and its state-based dwarves), IATP, etc, etc, etc. What a laugh.
The worst thing that ever happened to journalism is journalism school.
That pile of disposable
April 11, 2008 - 12:32 ET by DarkCurrentThat pile of disposable diapers looks just about like the stock on the shelves down the street from me here ... in China
Since when is using an item
April 11, 2008 - 12:40 ET by cheefloSince when is using an item the same thing as wasting an item?
A friend of mine preferred to swig from my bottle of mouthwash (even after I asked her not to) rather than use a paper cup from the medicine cabinet, claiming she didn't want to waste the cup. (Very conscientious. She had no problem not honoring my request, however.)
Many times I explained that that was what the cup is for, and using it is not wasting it -- it's using it.
Elizabeth Vargas would have us naked, in darkness, and idle.
Yesterday I needed to unload my guns
April 11, 2008 - 12:49 ET by YahooWatcherToday I need to stop using diapers and let my kids crap all over the place like cattle in the barnyard.
I can't wait for tomorrow.
That just about...
April 11, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Prester John...sums it up.
I'm surprised.
April 11, 2008 - 13:05 ET by Dave in TexasI'm surprised they stopped at diapers, showers, and milk in their attempt to guilt us into shame about all our "waste". No comment on the oxygen we use?
Elizabeth Vargas: "Every day we breathe huge amounts of precious oxygen. In a lifetime, we breathe enough oxygen to fill a <insert shockingly large object here>. And that's every person on the planet!!!"
But I suppose ABC will show us all how serious they are about this by refusing to run advertisements for all diaper, personal hygiene, and dairy products in the future.
Dave, Perhaps we can
April 11, 2008 - 14:05 ET by Chris NormanDave,
Perhaps we can write ABC and ask for a list of their advertisers, so we can avoid "wastefully" using their products. This would be a good start towards leading a less wasteful life.
What a country! You get
April 11, 2008 - 13:07 ET by fitzfongWhat a country! You get intellectual lightweights like Elizabeth Vargas in media deliberately cannibalizing American manufacturing businesses from the comfort of a New York studio, then blaming the businessmen when they're forced to ship those manufacturing jobs overseas.
But in a strange way, Vargas has a point. If Katie Couric can get paid $15 million a year for being a catastrophic failure, perhaps we are a wasteful people.
Elizabeth, please start a
April 11, 2008 - 13:15 ET by FishFace222Elizabeth, please start a new diaper credit company that I can contribute to so I can feel better.
Love your idea, FishFace.
April 11, 2008 - 14:06 ET by QueenMumLove your idea, FishFace. Crap credits. Or, poop points.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Liz: Rubber ducks for BATHS, not showers!
April 11, 2008 - 13:23 ET by SickofLibsEV: "We don't really know how long it takes plastic to break down".
Yes, we do, moron. It's called 'science' and it allows us to test materials and products under accelerated aging conditions, and thereby come up with an answer.
EV: "And remember, all of these diapers were sitting in the middle of, one AMERICAN baby."
Those little thoughtless, bastard American babies. We should try to emulate those Zimbabwe babies living in the bush that never saw a diaper. You know, like the way you raised your children.
EV: "Well, if everybody lived like us, we would need four, at least four, planet Earths to meet our resource demand and our dumping ground demand."
WTF data or study is this 'fact' based on? Four, at least four? I think 50 would be too many, so I guess four is about right. So the reporting in general, was, as stated, 'a sobering, important reality check'. Before I sober up tho, I'm going to get a drink first. But just not Absolut. This news may have a bright side tho: instead of becoming cannibals in 30 years, we can just eat the baby crap that will be all over the place when we quit using diapers. Instead of the Circle of Life, it would be called the The Circe of Crap.
I was raised with cloth diapers.
April 11, 2008 - 13:42 ET by sarcasmoMy Dad described to me one time the process of washing them. I had no idea my parents loved me so-much! ;)
Anyway, I'm not a parent, but even I know that modern disposable diapers are an undisputed blessing to humanity. Human crap should be used for what it's good for, but that's currently not a human priority. I'm not thrilled with that fact, but I can handle it a lot easier than what dear old Dad had on his hands with my diapers...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
This is truly a liberal
April 11, 2008 - 14:02 ET by QueenMumThis is truly a liberal dilemna. If we go back to cloth diapers, will the Islamo-Facists be offended? Think about it.
If the enviro-weinies want to do away with disposable diapers, I say we let the kids run around sans any butt covering. And the enviro-weinies can volunteer to pick up the crap. After all, they're experts when it comes to crap.
Just more of the usual doom and gloom, "we're all gonna die" nonsense from the left. Someone can help me with the numbers, but I thought I heard recently that a high percentage of land in the U.S. is in use. If any country can figure out how to dipose of its waste materials, its the U.S. What's with these libs always trying to tell us that we're bound to be victims of our progress?
P.S. Yikes, sarcasmo. Looks like I'm probably old enough to be your mom. Now there's a frightening thought. LOL I can concur that the process of diapering and changing a baby with cloth diapers took a strong stomach. For me, the worst part was swishing the poopy ones out in the toilet. Blech!
Come to think of it, have any of the enviro-weinies determined how much water, soap (which goes into the water supply), and electricity we needed to use in order to care for cloth diapers?
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Yes, that swishing thing...
April 11, 2008 - 14:14 ET by sarcasmoWas exactly what they described to me that made me sure they must have loved me, even though I surely was not the easiest kid to raise back then. No doubt I'd have been either Ritalin-medicated or incarcerated before the age of 18 these days, so I got lucky.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Oops. I need to amend the
April 11, 2008 - 16:17 ET by QueenMumOops. I need to amend the following sentence, but the edit function is not available on my post:
but I thought I heard recently that a high percentage of land in the U.S. is in use.
Should have said "a high percentage of land in the U.S. is not in use.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Fine, b*tch, quit your posh
April 11, 2008 - 14:02 ET by greenfairieFine, b*tch, quit your posh job and move to some African craphole with all of the diseases and stuff that comes from "living naturally." Or is it that only for the little people like me?
Perhaps Ms. Vargas and her
April 11, 2008 - 14:20 ET by Chris NormanPerhaps Ms. Vargas and her ilk want to return for a few years to an 1800s prairie farm and spend eighteen hours a day making her own clothes, raising her own food, chopping her own fuel, making her own cleaning and laundry compounds, whittling her own utensils, etc. - then she can show us how to do it to fit in with out present day reality. Of course, she'll have to give up her glamorous career and chic lifestyle for a several years...
Chris: And they call
April 11, 2008 - 16:18 ET by QueenMumChris: And they call themselves "progressive". How stupid can they be.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
" How stupid can they
April 11, 2008 - 19:45 ET by Chris Norman" How stupid can they be."
Queen Mum,
I'm not sure just yet. Ms. Vargas and company haven't finished their demonstrations of that.
Elizabeth, put your bidet on full blast
April 11, 2008 - 15:50 ET by YahooWatcherand have a nice weekend.
So I guess Vargas wants us
April 11, 2008 - 16:06 ET by goldboughSo I guess Vargas wants us to be walking around smelly and starving and then we'll all die and the earth will flourish! (while she and her other rich newspeople roam the earth)
Blonde - How do you make money from "Recycling"?
April 11, 2008 - 22:27 ET by PopularTechI cannot read anything up there anymore.
Now please explain in detail how you make money with recycling. I am not interested in trash collection as my whole argument has been about recycling which is a proven scam and not economical without government mandates:
Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)
Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)
It's OK to Throw it Away: Tell Your Kids (Roy E. Cordato, Ph.D. Economic)
Mandatory Recycling Wastes Resources, Harms Environment (The Heartland Institute)
Our Widespread Faith In Recycling Is Misplaced (Cato Institute)
Recycling is a waste of time (The Times, UK)
Recycling is Not the Answer (Cato Institute)
Recycling: It's a bad idea in New York (The Heartland Institute)
Recycling 'Like Throwing Money Away' (The Heartland Institute)
Recycling: Your Time Can Be Better Spent! (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
The Big City; Rethinking The Rites Of Recycling (The New York Times)
The Recycling Myth (The Ludwig von Mises Institute)
UF Study Points To Garbage, Recycling Trucks As Source Of Litter (Science Daily)
Wasting Resources to Reduce Waste: Recycling in New Jersey (Cato Institute)
Landfills Are Safe (Jay Lehr, Ph.D. Ground Water Hydrology)
Landfills - Developing Golf Courses on Landfills, Strip-Mines and Other Unusual Locations (The National Golf Foundation)
Landfills - Golf course opens on decontaminated Jersey landfill (ESPN)
Landfills - Florida Landfill Golf Courses
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Too bad for you
April 11, 2008 - 22:36 ET by BlondeYou can't read.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Typical
April 11, 2008 - 22:39 ET by PopularTechTypical, you cannot answer the question.. If you refuse to explain how you make money from recycling (not trash collection) then it is impossible for me to argue against something you have not explained but make claims about. Since I am not a mind reader please explain.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Nice Leon Tactic there, PopT
April 11, 2008 - 22:45 ET by BlondeYou are so toast.
I challenged you about fifteen, or maybe twenty posts ago....to go google it...you, after all, are famous for your innumerable links.
Hint, dude.....Public companies.
Check out their P&L's.
They put them out there, on the internet. With profitability by line of business (another industry term for you....since you are so intimately involved in the garbage industry).
You need to wake up a bit earlier to try to pull that kind of idiocy with me.
It's okay, I make allowances for the argumentally challenged.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Still no answer? Blonde this is getting old.
April 11, 2008 - 22:50 ET by PopularTechWhy is this so complicated? Why can you not answer the question?
HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY OFF RECYCLING?
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Still No Answer?
April 11, 2008 - 23:01 ET by BlondeWhat....are you dense?
We make money on recycling because the items that are recyled are commodities...it is cheaper to dispose of than garbage....and furthermore, in a vertical environment, worth cash!
Do you even have a clue what happens to old computers? Hmmmm? Take a guess. Or google it....that's your forte, isn't it?
No worries, take your time. I know you haven't a clue about the answer. Really.
Just to reiterate....because I fear you are well and truly obtuse, as well as reading deficient....for you, PopTech...Mr. Loma Linda...that means it can be sold.
Do you get it now?
But you are such a dumb consumer that you think it's cool to just throw it away. So be it.
As I said in my very first post....I don't care if you recycle or not....I make money either way.
So thrash on.....whatever. Be happy with your choices.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You make money off recycling basic plastic, paper and metal?
April 11, 2008 - 23:47 ET by PopularTechWHAT FREAKIN "ITEMS"? Are you programmed to be so evasive?
You make money off recycling basic plastic, paper and metal?
Computers? I am talking about general recycling plastics, paper and metal.
BTW who buys destroyed computer components?
I am very happy with my "choices" of throwing it away.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Not to be a fly
April 12, 2008 - 00:59 ET by gfrrmanin the ointment, PopT. but why not type these simple words in your Google infested mind...."make money recycling". Now take your time going through the numerous listings for this SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH.....stop being such a baby. I think Blonde has been way patient with you. But you only seem to be wanting to argue. Put the pipe down for a bit...... it'll take quite a while to go through ALL those GOOGLE listings...maybe by tomorrow? ;-)
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Totally Missing the Point
April 12, 2008 - 18:27 ET by PopularTechAgain GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING. I am not nor ever was talking about recycling materials that have actual value in the free market. Blatantly distorting my argument or trying to define something I never stated is ridiculous. None of my links if you actually read them or the video talk about anything but GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
WHAT ITEMS DO YOU MAKE MONEY "RECYCLING"?
April 11, 2008 - 23:50 ET by PopularTechWHAT ITEMS DO YOU MAKE MONEY "RECYCLING"?
Please try to answer the question without me having to use mind reading tricks and the secret decoder ring.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
You might want to take a little more care...
April 12, 2008 - 00:07 ET by BlondePopT....
What do you not understand about recylables? Hmmm? Are you that dense?
Furthermore.
About quoting me....
Particularly with big fat caps.
Since you called me a liar...SIX times.
Payback sucks, PT.
You are married, yes?
Run with that thought.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
WHAT ITEMS DO YOU MAKE MONEY "RECYCLING"?
April 12, 2008 - 00:21 ET by PopularTechWHAT ITEMS DO YOU MAKE MONEY "RECYCLING"?
Please answer the question. Is it possible? Lets find out...
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Last word....
April 12, 2008 - 00:30 ET by BlondeYou, PopT, are apparently STUCK ON STUPID.
I can't help you there...sorry.
Try reverse.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Is the question too hard for you?
April 12, 2008 - 00:42 ET by PopularTechI figured even someone who collects trash for a living would be educated enough to answer a simple question but then it would be too easy for me to rip it apart.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Can you READ THIS?
April 11, 2008 - 22:39 ET by BlondeI haven't called you an a**hole...yet.
But it's an iffy thing.
And everyone reading this thread will understand you are so far under water on this issue that a scuba tank wouldn't help.
Nice try, though.
But keep it up.....nobody gives anyone anything in an environment of governmental regulation. Why don't you talk to dairy farmers or somesuch?
I'll say it one last time. Put your drink down.
That's it though...I am over you calling me a liar. As, I am sure, everyone is else here, as well.
If that is your first, last, and only debating point, you seriously lose, Buckwheat.
On substance, style, and points.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Your choice
April 11, 2008 - 22:41 ET by PopularTechTypical, you cannot answer the question.. If you refuse to explain how
you make money from recycling (not trash collection) then it is
impossible for me to argue against something you have not explained but
make claims about. Since I am not a mind reader please explain.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
What question?
April 11, 2008 - 22:49 ET by BlondeI'll refer you back, yet again....to my post of an hour ago.
Go google, google master.
So sorry....I need not answer your inane questions because you've lost on each and every debating point.
You might want to call me a liar for a sixth time, though. It's such an effective debating point, and all.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY OFF RECYCLING?
April 11, 2008 - 22:53 ET by PopularTechThis question: HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY OFF RECYCLING?
I have not lost on any points. Yes you lied when you said I diverted the argument. If you don't like being called a liar don't lie.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Keep on Pasting the Same Old, PopTech
April 11, 2008 - 23:04 ET by BlondeEveryone here has seen it all, a hundred times.
You know what...there was a point in time where I bothered to look at what you posted....but it's been a long, long time ago.
And after our encounter this evening....I'd imagine hardly anyone will bother to read a single link of yours.
You've lost the last shred of credibility you ever had here.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Keep on avoiding simple questions Blonde
April 11, 2008 - 23:43 ET by PopularTechWhy not add more rambling metaphors in while avoiding the question and avoiding giving direct answers, it is easier to evade them with indirect half-ass answers then to have them torn to shreds with pure logic.
Your loss as it seems you have a lot to learn.
Awe, do you now decide for the thousands of NB visitors daily? I don't think so, my credibility is backed up with the sources and information I provide, something you never do but hey rambling metaphors sound good to the weak minded who cannot debate facts.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
You are totally boring
April 12, 2008 - 00:02 ET by BlondeAnd totally off point. You haven't proven one thing this evening. You've thrashed around in a lovely fashion though....kind of like a trout.
I've proven all of your idiotic rants about the waste business, to be baseless.
You've committed a full LEON, Pop. It's funny...and unfortunate for you.
Furthermore, I've shoved your proud stance of "non-recycling" down the drain.
You've made a lame attempt at "educating" people here, about the waste industry....but fella...it's my baliwick. You lost. Admit it.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I have proven you CANNOT ANSWER QUESTIONS!
April 12, 2008 - 00:31 ET by PopularTechIf Leon has to go through this insanity with you then my god I have pity on him.
I've proven you cannot answer questions!
You haven't proven a damn thing! You make baseless statements you cannot back up and give vague answers. The best was you are right because I should Google something? WTF? That doesn't prove JACK SHIT!
You haven't done anything but grandstand and expect me to use some mind reading tricks or a magic decoder ring to figure out what the fuck you are talking about.
A free market "waste industry" and government mandated recycling are two different things even though you want to try to lump them together in your delusional mind. Oh wait even better, maybe you should just use your personal job (which you have still failed to explain in detail what it is despite repeated requests) in your own location as the "authority" on my arguments. Until you explain in detail what you do and how you make money your "authority" is as irrelevant as your commentary.
Oh no I am "boring" - my feelings are hurt, now I will cry.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PopTech,
April 12, 2008 - 00:46 ET by gfrrmanI'm a little late coming into this conversation due to my late work schedule and the need to wind down with a few IPA's afterward. I've read your posts before and figured you to be a rather intelligent and computer savvy guy. I'll have to say that given what I can gather about this discussion you have just wanted to argue. Can you, as an apparently intelligent person say, that there is no way that $$$ can be made from recycling, or that only Blonde hasn't explained the way exceptional to you? Are you that obtuse or just yanking her chain?
Btw, you use of profanity is not attractive on this site!! It reflects us all..sooo.....NIP IT!!!! :-)
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Government MANDATED Recycling
April 12, 2008 - 00:58 ET by PopularTechNo I am trying to explain that without government mandates recycling is NOT cost effective and people would not do it.
If someone cannot make money by collecting raw materials for free and reselling them because people are required by law to put them at the curb then they are an idiot. This is no better than having the IRS put a gun to your head and force you to pay income taxes or saying a prison work force ordered to do something is "profitable". This has NOTHING to do with the free market.
I am all for free market recycling if the materials are in demand and people want to give them away for free or better yet sell them. I am against a useless "feel" good government mandated recycling program.
I asked simple questions and never got direct and detailed answers.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PopT
April 12, 2008 - 01:19 ET by gfrrmanyou've simply got an erection about this isue. Because what you asked Blonde is how she could make $$ on recycling(she answered) and her answer didn't fit you agenda, which FINALLY came out hours later in this last post of yours!! Have you been drinking or other things all day? Geez!! Tell you what, as Rocky used to call Bullwinkle,.."Mr KNOW-IT-ALL"(you), I used to work for a trophy/awards company and we used quite a bit of brass, steel, aluminum other metals and even plastic for the products we produced. We RECYCLED the scrap at a local recycling company and we used that $$ for company parties, products such as food and snacks for employees, lunches, toiletries and mnay other uses that didn't have to come out the company bottom line. THIMK!!!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Clarifications...
April 12, 2008 - 18:45 ET by PopularTech1. She never directly answered or in detail how she makes money recycling because what she is talking about has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about.
2. I am ONLY talking about GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING.
3. I asked her specifically how she makes money to try and get this clarified! It has nothing to do with my "agenda".
I am not nor ever was talking about anything that has to do with non-government mandated recycling. This is all clear in my links.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PopT
April 12, 2008 - 22:38 ET by gfrrmanI'd say that you haven't ONE point clear in this discussion. First you argue about making $$ recycling and then it turns into how Blonde, NOT the gov't makes $$ recycling, and then your final escape weakness answer is how the gov't mandates $$ in recycling. You make NO sense only to yourself. But keep moving the goalposts, that really enhances your stupid argument. Nice try, but VERY weak!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Keep making things up
April 12, 2008 - 22:52 ET by PopularTechNO I originally was arguing that "Recycling" is a waste of time, I have since clarified that for the reading impaired, which I thought was clear by my links, that this specifically means GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING. It is now spelled out for you.
Blonde will not even tell me what she does or how she makes money but was trying to argue that because she does something I am wrong but failed to explain what that something is, let alone how that relates to government mandated recycling. You are knee-jerk defending her because you have reading comprehension problems.
Please show me where I have ever argued against someone making money off of recycling free market resources? When you cannot please go find something else to do because you are totally lost here.
I realize you really think I have changed the argument but that is because you failed to read any link I posted or to watch the video I posted. It is not my problem you are reading impaired or like to make assumptions.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PoTp
April 12, 2008 - 23:21 ET by gfrrmanthat's not an error...PUT THE PIPE DOWN!!!! Blonde and all have clariefied their views.!!!! YOU keep changing YOURS. YOU HAVE NO POINT BUT changing your point. If anyone on this blog exchanges with with you in the future you will be busted by me and all. Go away prattle.......you have NO redeaming value...go away. Dkos and Huffpo bekon...
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Delurium
April 13, 2008 - 01:21 ET by PopularTechReally Blonde has clarified her views? In which post? I on the other hand have clearly clarified mine.
Please explain to me how I have changed my views. Please prove where I was NOT talking about government mandated recycling and made this clear. Your assumptions based on what you thought I was talking about have nothing to do with reality.
OH I AM SO SCARED YOU MAY MISINTERPRET WHAT I HAVE TO SAY IN THE FUTURE. So now you will essentially be lying like Blonde already did about something you assumed.
I am not going anywhere and please don't attempt to smear me with lies it will only make you look like more of an idiot.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PopTech... man, what's gotten into you???
April 12, 2008 - 01:01 ET by MrShyI'm with gfrrman and many here, I'm sure. Using profanity is going to get you suspended or removed.
Really, that's one thing NB'ers take pride in... not using gutter language.
Okay, I have to go and empty out my 4 bags of recyclables :p
* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change
Recycling is Bullshit
April 12, 2008 - 01:02 ET by PopularTechSuspend me please I really don't give a shit. Maybe the recycling con can be perpetuated and you can continue to live in fantasy land that you are not really wasting your time. Please don't watch this video:
Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)
Pretend none of the information I provided exists and please don't read any of it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT
April 12, 2008 - 01:08 ET by MrShyI'm serious, do you really want to be suspended?
I actually have no leaning in the argument, btw. Yes, I recycle, but I do wonder if it makes sense or not. I do it only because it's NY State law.
I just interjected, as a fellow NB'er, that people don't use foul language, or at least use "**" in certain words, if they are so compelled to curse (like Blonde's doing...) But it's just my own humble request, that you debate with civility.... or fine then, don't... not much else I can do or say :)
* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change
Bawahahahah, Pop
April 12, 2008 - 01:10 ET by BlondeThe gig is up.
So take your garbage to the curb. My company will probably (well, maybe not....if I knew where you lived, definitely not) pick it up for you.
But don't recycle...it matters not to me.
I make WAAAAY more money on pure garbage...much less on garbage less the recycleables...
But, don't worry, be happy PopT.
Throw it all away...with both hands.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Is Blonde reading impaired?
April 12, 2008 - 01:17 ET by PopularTechUnlike you I clearly stated "I take my garbage to a landfill"
I don't recycle, I have stated this over and over yet you keep repeating it does not matter to you or does it?
I am happy you make more money on being a trash girl. But since this is about RECYCLING you point is about as relevant as fishing.
I do throw it all away. I also instruct everyone to destroy their computers before putting them at the curb, especially the Harddrives.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Fishing is more relevant than you are.
April 12, 2008 - 01:24 ET by BlondeBut keep it up, PopTech...everyone will respect you tomorrow.
I'm done with you....you are sorrier than my cat's toy. Lata, fool.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Ok, PopT
April 12, 2008 - 01:32 ET by gfrrmanlet's take your stupidity to another level. Say you are an electrician. Copper(as one of your daily products) has always been and even more so now a commodity. If you have left-over copper from a job that you had been paid for would YOU just THROW IT ALL AWAY? Or would you reuse it or take it to a local recycling company, or maybe sell it to another electrician? If you just took it to a landfill you are a complete idiot. Did you know that in the Atlanta area here that several peeps got arrested for breaking into company lots that had huge coils of copper on their grounds and they were selling it on the local market wherever they could until they were arrested. But I guess you would just throw away money. That's your prerogative! In your world another man's trash is another man's trash....so be it. Gimme ALL YOUR leftover copper!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Distorting my position
April 12, 2008 - 19:00 ET by PopularTechThis is absolutely irrelevant to anything I am talking about this is the equivalent of saying everything used sold on ebay is "recycling" which is nonsense. I am and have always been ONLY talking about GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PooT
April 12, 2008 - 22:28 ET by gfrrmanSo now the game changes and the goal posts move further...just like lib. You can't argue the basic tentents of the original statement that YOU were against(sounds like sarcasmo). You questioned how "anyone could make money recycling". Now you change it to how GOV'T makes $$ recycling. Nice try, just like a lib....really rather pathetic.. I thought you were better than that....
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Idiotman
April 12, 2008 - 22:38 ET by PopularTechNOTHING CHANGED! I CLARIFIED MY STATEMENT FOR THE READING IMPAIRED!
I have and always have been arguing about the same exact damn thing. It is idiots like you don't read a damn link I post or pretend to like Blonde and then jump to idiotic conclusions based on assumptions I never said.
If the government did not mandate the recycling of many materials such as plastics and paper - NO ONE WOULD MAKE MONEY FROM THEM until the market decided it was cheaper to recycle them then to obtain them from natural resources.
Next time try to read the links I provided so you can educate yourself on what I am talking about.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Idiot Pop,
April 12, 2008 - 22:47 ET by gfrrmanput the pipe down for minute. From one that requires everone other than you to check your links, you obviously never Googled "how to make $$ recycling". Stick your head in the sand all you want..
In your world no on would make $$ in a business until the gov't said it was all right. Know what thats called??? Google it you uneducated tool.
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Googling "Bricks up you a**"
April 12, 2008 - 22:59 ET by PopularTechI never did that either! When she made this statement I realized she might be talking about something other than what I was. Which is why I TRIED TO ASK HER SIMPLE QUESTIONS. Thus when (I have no idea to know because she never did) she probably would have said something other then the plastic, metal and paper everyone sorts in bins with the recycling label on the side at the curb every week. I could have clarified it for her.
What is so sad is you are soooooo mad about something you just assumed, just like Blonde.
Yes in my world your dumb statements and assumptions do not exist. FYI there is more then one search engine.
I am happy to educate you on not making assumptions.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PotP
April 12, 2008 - 23:28 ET by gfrrmanAgain, I refer you to your most famous of search engines.......GOOGLE...."Making money recycling"...try clicking there.....and like I said earlier....get back to me after you've perused the many THOUSAND sites. NO $$$ in recycling you TOOL!! Facts really throw a libs mind. Proofs in the pudding...I rest my cast your honor!!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Googling "I am an idiot"
April 13, 2008 - 01:28 ET by PopularTechTry Googling "How to make money off recycling materials that have no value without government mandates".
What is really sad is you think I am a liberal. You need serious medication. Try breathing slowly and go back and watch the video and read the links I posted.
Hint for the mentally challenged - when I was talking about "Recycling" I was refering to GOVERNMENT MANDATED RECYCLING!!! I had no idea people would misinterpret that as reusing valued materials on the free market. But then again I underestimated the level of stupidity from some people here.
I rest my case you are an idiot.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
And even further,
April 12, 2008 - 01:42 ET by gfrrmanPopT, if YOU could make $$$ recycling your garbage....would you still take yours to the landfill? I anticipate your answer with recycled breath!!!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
Nothing to do with my point!
April 12, 2008 - 18:51 ET by PopularTechIf you don't want to bother reading even one of the links I posted or watching the video then please don't make assumptions. My point is that the only way we should be recycling is voluntary and the government mandated position is not cost effective but an emotional one based on lies, such as we are running out of landfill space, that we are running out of raw materials, that it is better for the environment or that it is cost effective.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Good Night, Pop Tech
April 12, 2008 - 00:27 ET by BlondeIt was fun totally destroying your "oh so joyful" denial of recycling any of your household trash.
Dude...if you don't want to recycle...no skin off my nose.
Enjoy.
However...there are millions of us, who participate in recycling, which (as much as you hate it...and have failed to PROVE the efficacy of doing it...like to recycle) is a positive thing for both the economy...and the ecology. Not to mention, just because it chaps your a**, is personally profitable to me.... :D
Suck it up, PopT.
You lost.
Of course...you may call me a liar, again, for the seventh or eigth time....but be wary about doing that.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Oblterating your non-points
April 12, 2008 - 00:39 ET by PopularTechIt was totally fun watching your mental insanity of not making one point. I especially enjoyed the lack of answers to direct questions.
Oh BTW I take my trash to a landfill personally by van. Oh did I just rip your sad "victory" from your little mind? Ooops.
I don't recycle and you don't make money off me. Got it? Good.
There are millions of fools in this country - that I am sure of but hey if it makes you "feel" better even though it is stupid I would not want to ruin your fantasy land.
Recycling is NOT good for the economy and irrelevant for the ecology, which I have proven.
I most certainly have not lost though feel free to repeat it as your mental illness is evident.
Bullshit! - Recycling (Video) (29min)
Recycling is Garbage (The New York Times)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Nu?
April 12, 2008 - 00:58 ET by BlondeI am so glad you personally take your trash to the fill. It warms my heart.
That is so funny, on so many different levels. Particularly from you, Pop.
However...I must point out here, for ALL to read, the folly you have carried on here, tonite. Your rather inane attempt at portraying me as some sort of whack job, is totally pathetic. Silly, actually.
You've had your sorry a** handed to you on a platter.
Next time you try to dazzle someone with your silly links...know your audience. I didn't buy your first one...and since you fizzled so badly on that...the rest are worthless.
Link on...Pop Tech.
If you had a clue...you might make a modicum of sense.
But, you had no clue....you not only devolved into calling me a liar, no less than six times, you also cursed and acted like a complete and utter A**HOLE (and yes...I'm allowed to call you that for your behaviour here).
Loser.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Owned
April 12, 2008 - 01:07 ET by PopularTechPlease I am waiting with baited breath for you to answer my above questions. You are like the con men who perpetuate the man-made global warming con to keep the grant money flowing or in this case to keep you in business. Keep repeating but never proving one point. Please hope no one but thousands everyday read my links as they really do not exist.
Yes Blonde you are a liar, you stated I diverted the argument when I did not such thing and thus lied by definition, now go look up what the word lie means.
Better yet respond with more ramblings as it is all you can manage to produce.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Thank you PopLeon
April 12, 2008 - 01:15 ET by BlondeWhat question(s)?
You are an absolute failure....you keep on keeping on with your same old tired trolling.
You, sir, have called me a liar eight times, this evening, without proving it.
So.....tomorrow is another day, Scarlette.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Facts about Recyling you may not know
April 12, 2008 - 21:35 ET by PopularTech- Every community recycling program in America today costs more than the revenue it generates (Source)
- The market for most products manufactured from recycled materials is largely supported by government subsidies or government programs requiring recycled content in certain products (Source)
- The value of recycled materials on the open market has declined dramatically in recent years, and in many cases there is no market at all (Source)
- Manufacturing paper, glass, and plastic from recycled materials uses appreciably more energy and water and produces as much or more air pollution as manufacturing from raw materials (Source)
- We are not running out of or will we ever run out of any of the resources we recycle (Source)
- We are not cutting down “endangered forests” today to make paper. We plant far more trees than we harvest each year. Wood is in ample supply (Source)
- U.S. Forest land area increased from 747 million acres in 1997 to 749 in 2002 (U.S. Forest Service)
- Since the 1950s, timber growth has consistently exceeded harvest (U.S. Forest Service)
- We are not running out of landfill space. All the garbage we will generate in the next 10 centuries will require less than 35 square miles to a height of only 300 feet (Source)
- Landfills are no longer a threat to the environment or public health. State-of-the-art landfills, with redundant clay and plastic liners and leachate collection systems, have now replaced all of our previously unsafe dumps (Source)
- Landfills can be excellent neighbors, contributing wonderful parklands and golf courses to our communities (Source)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
how many
April 12, 2008 - 21:45 ET bysmelting plants are there in the US?
paper mills?
we ship ore to China and ship metal to the US because we can't do that here.
there are ships that sail out past 200 miles to produce paper from wood because we can't do that here.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Free Markets determine the cost of Resources
April 12, 2008 - 21:53 ET by PopularTechI am missing your points.
If it was cheaper to recycle metal than to inport it from China the market would do that on it's own.
We have plenty of paper mills here, I have no idea what you are talking about with ships and paper.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
After watching the link from Poptech
April 12, 2008 - 12:20 ET by TjexciteHaving read all the back and forth on this topic and have taken the 30 min to watch Penn and Teller show I too agree that certain recycling is very counter productive. Especially plastic, What do they turn that old pop bottle into. They turn it in to a garbage bag because that is all they can. They can't use non-virgin material because of health concerns of what bacterial was in that bottle and what else it was used for. Moldy bottle could damage the whole possess. If the bottle is to old its materal has broken down and less usable and if it is not totaly pure it needs more new material is need to make it stable.
Yes I know that wikipeda is a bad source but it is a start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_recycling