NBC Marches in Lockstep with Gay Agenda for the Military

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NBC outdid itself in promoting the pro-gay view in its Nightly News coverage Wednesday of a hearing held by the House Armed Services Committee's subcommittee on personnel. NBC served up a litany of gay "victims" of the military's ban on open homosexuality, plus pro-gay congressmen, and played up a recent poll showing most Americans wanting to overturn the ban.

NBC cited only one pro-ban witness, a retired Army Ranger sergeant who got 3 seconds of airtime in the 2:39 segment. Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness, who gave a detailed testimony supporting the ban, was not featured at all. The sergeant's statement, by the way, was immediately and angrily refuted by a veteran Army officer now in Congress.

Narrated by Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski, the piece begins with lesbian retired Navy Capt. Joan Darrah walking along a country path with her partner and a Frisbee-catching dog. She gives heartfelt testimony. Next comes retired Marine Sgt. Eric Alva, who lost a leg in Iraq and has been featured on other newscasts as the face of gay soldiering. Alva is shown with his prosthetic leg, in full uniform, and then testifying. Rep. Chris Shays (R-Conn.), proclaims the gay ban "unpatriotic" and "cruel."

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Near the end, Miklaszewski gives 3 on-camera seconds to Sgt. Major Brian Jones, who says, "We've got to huddle together to stay warm and keep from freezing in the night." His clip is followed, whack-a-mole style, by Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-Penn.), who proclaims, "As a former army officer, I can tell you that is an insult to me and to many of the soldiers."

Miklaszewski continues, aided by a graphic, to report that an ABC/Washington Post poll says 75 percent of Americans want gays to serve openly, up from 44 percent in 1993 when the law was passed. As usual, NBC makes no effort to clarify that the law Congress passed bars homosexuals from military service. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is a Clinton Administration rule allowing service by homosexuals who do not act out. Donnelly pointed this out in her testimony, but NBC did not find that newsworthy.

Miklaszewski wraps up the piece by revisiting Joan Darrah, back in the pastoral setting, with Miklaszewski saying that Darrah had left the Navy and was "finally free to reveal her secret and campaign publicly for change." Who could disagree with this sweet woman and her Frisbee-loving dog?

Here's the transcript:

BRIAN WILLIAMS: For the first time in 15 years, the United States Congress today revisited the law known as Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It's the policy that bars openly gay, lesbian, and bisexual Americans from serving in the U.S. military. Because of it, the Pentagon has discharged an estimated 12,000 members of the armed services since the law was passed in 1993. Our Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski reports on this renewed debate over whether it's time to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

MIKLASZEWSKI: As an intelligence officer in the Navy, former Capt. Joan Darrah was trusted with the military's top secrets, but the most closely guarded secret was her own: She is gay. Darrah told lawmakers today that Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the law which prohibits gays from openly serving in the military, kept her in constant fear.

JOAN DARRAH: It's day to day, going to work and knowing no matter how good your performance is, if somehow somebody outs you, you're fired.

MIKLASZEWSKI: Marine Staff Sgt. Eric Alva lost his leg in the opening hours of the Iraq war but his biggest regret is the military would not accept the fact that he, too, is gay.

ALVA: I have proudly served a country that was not proud of me.

[Graphic: Growing political pressure to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell]

MIKLASZEWSKI: But there is growing political pressure to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell because, critics claim, it excludes many highly qualified gays from serving in the military.

CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R-Conn.) I think the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is unpatriotic, I think it's counterproductive, in fact, I think it is absolutely cruel.

MIKLASZEWSKI: Proponents of the law argue, however, open service by gays would undermine the military's good order and discipline. Former Army Ranger Brian Jones claims close quarter combat conditions and gay soldiers don't mix.

BRIAN JONES: We've got to huddle together to stay warm and keep from freezing in the night.

PATRICK MURPHY (D-Penn.): As a former Army officer, I can tell that you is an insult to me and to many of the soldiers.

MIKLASZEWSKI: The Pentagon's position is that Don't Ask, Don't Tell is the law and sees no reason to change it. But recent polls show 75% of Americans believe gays should openly serve in the military, (GRAPHIC SUPPORTS TEXT) up dramatically from 44% when the law was first enacted in 1993.

Shot of Darrah again with partner and dog in pastoral setting.

MIKLASZEWSKI: Capt. Darrah left the Navy but is finally free to reveal her secret and campaign publicly for change. Jim Miklaszewski, NBC News, the Pentagon.


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Of course NBC didn't give

Of course NBC didn't give equal coverage to the pro-ban side; they, like all Libs, aren't interested in hearing anything that contradicts their agenda.

This whole issue has nothing to do with military policy, it is merely another attempt, like "gay" "marriage," to force society to accept homosexuality as normal.  The bulk of their rhetoric and stated reasoning is just smoke.

First

Exactly what is the gay agenda, and why is it so wrong? Answers please...oh but do so without bigotry. Use your "religious beliefs" if you must, but remember, that's all they are..."beliefs", and they certainly don't make you right. Your "God" doesn't have the answers for everyone. This may not be possible.

It's my challenge for the day. Go Go Go.

Think Well.

You have to ask?

So you have to ask what the agenda is?  I suggest you do the research and get back to us with the answer and we can see if you got it right or not. Troll treats available at the daily kos.

Troll Troll Troll

See, now I want a new answer...that didn't quite cut it. Failure on all levels.

Research too hard?

You fall back on the easy run away answer.  You were tasked to do some research and you are not willing to do so.  That makes you a lazy troll.  Did you get your treat?  You can use google or any other search engine that you want.  Give it a try.  You might learn something that you don't already know.

They don't want to learn

They don't want to learn anything.  If they did, they'd know that the "gay" agenda is to force their views down everyone's throat, to vilify, ridicule or demonize anyone who considers homosexuality to be outside the realm of normal human behavior (which can easily be verified through elementary biology), and to make society accept it as if it were no different than hair color or a flavor preference for ice cream - and the most extreme ones want total domination of society by homosexuals who would use Heterosexuals (i.e. normal people) as breeders, supplying fresh meat to satisfy their perverted desires.

Why are they so Hell-bent on making everyone accept them?  I believe it's because if they succeed they will be able to asuage the guilt they feel from knowing, deep down, that they are in the wrong on some level - either morally, sociologically, biologically. 

"Why are they so Hell-bent

"Why are they so Hell-bent on making everyone accept them?  I believe it's because if they succeed they will be able to asuage the guilt they feel from knowing, deep down, that they are in the wrong on some level - either morally, sociologically, biologically."

=========================================

Wrong.  Wrong.  Wrong.  You find me one person who says they don't want to feel accepted and you will have found a liar. 

Everybody wants to feel accepted.  Why do you put on clean clothes everyday?  Why do you participate in church activities?  Why do you get excited when somebody applauds you for something you've said or done?  Why does it make you feel like a million bucks when somebody calls you their friend?  Because everybody wants to feel accepted. 

Is it because you would otherwise feel like you were an outcast to society?  Or is it because it simply feels good when you think that you belong.

This isn't rocket science, you know

 

It's not about acceptance...

  The gay movement is NOT about acceptance.  It is about forcing people to AGREE with them that their sexual behavior is a societal norm.

  You can find any number of people (even staunchly religious Conservatives) who are more than willing to say that they ACCEPT the individual as a person DESPITE the fact that they are gay, but they do not agree that Homosexuality is normal.  This isn't enough to gay activists, even though BY DEFINITION their sexual lifestyles ARE abnormal.

  You can find more people on the left who are unwilling to accept Conservatives, than you can find people on the right unwilling to accept gay people.   

Well I can't speak for

Well I can't speak for everybody. But my goal is to not change somebody's personal beliefs. As far as I'm concerned: Me forcing you to believe that homosexuality is not a sin is just as bad as somebody forcing me not to be gay.

But with me, I'm cool with being accepted as an individual despite being gay. That's all I personally want. And I believe what most gays want. But, like any group, its the extremists that get all the attention.

I've met people like this. Who consider the fact that they are gay to be the most important, or even the only aspect of their personality. And that annoys the hell out of me. Me? I like gothic novels and ice hockey, I love music, I root for the Nebraska Cornhuskers, I am a pretty decent computer programmer, I kick-ass on the X-Box, I'm a doting uncle, a very very loyal friend, and, oh yeah, I'm gay.

Very few people in the real world know I'm gay. I just don't really think its anybody's business. The people that matter to me are the ones that know. If I did serve in the military, I probably wouldn't even tell my fellow soldiers.  To me, its just none of their business.  It was actually some time before I even mentioned it on this website...And it was only during a discussion such as this.

I'm seriously not looking for special treatment. I'm just not all that interested in hearing people say every five minutes that I'm sick and evil and doomed to spend eternity in Hell.

 

Are you deliberately

Are you deliberately missing my point, or are you so pissed that some of us don't buy the "gay is OK" mantra that your though processes are clouded? I wasn't talking about feeling accepted, I'm talking about making people accept homosexuality as normalcy.

I can accept you as a person, and even as a friend, but that doesn't mean I have to accept homosexuality as 'normal' or 'OK' or whatever you want to say, because it isn't. 

You're right, it's not rocket science, it's biology.

Mom...Is that you? I

Mom...Is that you?

I mean, fair enough. Your opinion. Like I said, I have no interest in forcing you to change your beliefs.

I encourage people to have a different point of view. But if they have no interest in even trying, I'll be moving along.

(Sigh) If only certain religions had that same philosophy...

 

ex....troll treats?

Dude, you have me laughing so hard with that beautiful little turn of phrase!

We need a better class of troll, here. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Glad I could make your day/evening/whatever

Blonde,

Not sure where he/it popped in from but we have had better classes on this site before.  We could even engage in a spirited debate.  Not with the new crop.

Agreed, ex

I hadn't thought of them as a whole "class" of trollsters, but you are correct.   Welcome to the troll kicking club, BTW.

Manhattan, huh?  The lovely Little Apple.  Is that one room school house still there on the north side as one drives into Riley?  Bell Taxi in JC?  Wow, hadn't thought about that in  forever. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde

I have not been to the Little Apple for six years.  Actually it is more like eight years, deployments do that to you.  Working in Germany gives a different perspective on things.

I have not thought of JC, Bell Taxi, or the school house in about eight years.  The school house was still there in 2000.  I cannot talk about how things stand now.  It sounds like you spent some time in 1ID land.

Little Apple

Yes, we had been married for 4 days when Reagan was elected in a landslide, on our way to the Big Red One.

I have a great pic of that picturesque little school house somewhere.

Before we moved on post, we lived across the street from the K-State football stadium.

Fond memories. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Little Apple

I lived down the street from you just off Kimball Ave.  Good memories here too.  Its late so good night.  Nice finding someone from the old stomping grounds.  I still have to get the Irish wife there.  She wants to see where I was living before heading across the pond.

Ha

You haven't even given me an honest answer to the first question posed. It's not unnatural...basic biology proves nothing except that it takes a man and a woman to create a child, but maybe not to raise one.  And thats great and all but I have never desired offspring...so ok...I do desire a partner in life though...of the male kind. Tell me how it's unnatural...tell me why...the parts seem to fit well to me. So when you can answer my questions...thoughtfully, no religion, no bigotry...will I see fit to stop annoying. Besides you haven't provided any more real answers than I have...so stop stroking egos and play with the rest of us.  

Think Well.

 

jq, Soo Homosexual life is relaxing, and peaceful .

That's why your life span is about HALF of hetrosexuals.

PHILADELPHIA, April 3, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Studies have shown
that years of smoking shortens the lifespan of the smoker from 1 to 7
years. Recent analysis of the age of death in Norway and Denmark for
gays who are legally married suggests that engaging in homosexual
behavior reduces lifespan by 24 years!

Most gays I know smoke, loads of whatever they can light up.

So Substract 24 + 7 years off your life..

Substract some more years for NOT being married.

 

Liberals62%


IranianUranium

Nothing is right about homosexuality

jquam - It is nothing more than a personal choice to perform aberrant and perverted behavior for sexual pleasure and nothing more.  There is no scientific evidence proving it is anything more.  If so, how come there are identical twins with identical DNA and one is gay and the other straight.  As a disabled veteran, I have seen the results of when a gay person decides to come out of the closet, both in garrison and in the field, and what the results are.  Soldiers do not need another distraction from performing their duties, such as worrying about having to bunk with or even shower with one.  The gay agenda is not to get acceptance, but get special status so they can qualify for special treatment and laws.  They have the same social status already with legal provisions for death and hospital visits, etc., so now they want more.  They want marriage, not accepting their partnership status.  They want adoption and parental rights, I'll let you talk to my daughter whose gay mother screwed her up.  They want special laws to infringe upon my rights of free speech.  So explain to me what "good" they bring because I see absolutely none.  You cannot prove it is anything more than a moral choice, so let's see you explain your side of it, or will you resort to the typical liberal name calling and be intolerent, thought you want us to.  You have already shown you are bigoted because you call my faith bigotry as well as anyone who disagrees with you, so your words here have already failed you.  Isaiah 5:20 - "Woe unto those who call evil good and good evil."   Try thinking jquam and not buying into lies.

Oh

 Your answer has too much anger in it and it's a little cliche...try again when you have a fresh progressive idea. Plus I know I can be bigoted just like the next guy...I don't mock your "God" though.

Think Well.

"God" in quotes? That's

"God" in quotes? That's pretty insulting to a large part of the community, no?

"Gay" used to mean cheery, before the homosexuals purloined it.

So you're a "godless" homosexual?

You don't?

Reread what you first posted.  You contend that God does not have all the answers.  Therefor you mock God.  Not a good idea, I suggest you rethink things.  You are quite glib for someone who lives under bridges.  Now, why don't you do a little thinking and a little less taunting.  You really could learn something you know.

...and I always thought

...and I always thought homosexuals were supposed to be more 'sensitive' than the rest of us...

...another stereotype dismissed.

hold on, everyone....

"You are quite glib..."

Wait, you mean a progressive liberal is failing to debate, cocksure of his/her idealogy (yes, Freudian there a bit, perhaps), acting holier than thou (there's an oxi-moron... and, well, there's a moron, period :p) and infusing his/her short posts with cute, glib, smug-ish and condescending tones?

Naaaaahhh, couldn't be.

 

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

Yeah...

Just like the other posts here.

Cocksure of their ideology. Check.

Acting holier than thou. Double check.

Cute, glib, smug-ish and condescending tones? SickofLibs and myself have that one covered.

mvfreeman

"Cocksure of their ideology. Check.

Acting holier than thou. Double check."

Fair enough on those two points. But the one you never "triple checked" was "failing to debate", and I find NB users very often go in-depth when they respond to libs/trolls, but get very little in return. That IS called tolerating someone, when you respond with your side of things in detail, respectfully for the most part, which NB'ers very often do.

As for many here acting holier than thou, well, many here are religious. I'm not, but I fully understand and accept that they will tend to be. It's called tolerating them. I also tolerate homosexuals. I tolerate a lot of things, but will want to debate respectfully and I try very hard to not talk down to anyone. The glib troll (jquam) here made no attempt at this at all, and already has dismissed several lengthy responses with just cuteness.

 

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

I'm the same way.

But it seems like sometimes there is no point in arguing against firmly held preconceived notions. If someone thinks homosexuals are an abomination why argue it? Everyone has a right to an opinion. Firmly held beliefs are not going to be changed by posting on the internet.

And some things are just too silly to waste time on.  

By some peoples' standards I'm going to hell because I fornicated. I would be a little hard pressed to engage in a serious argument about that. I really don't care what those people believe. ;)

I don't call referring to the bible debating. It is merely stating ones beliefs.

This isn't a theological discussion. It's about military unit effectiveness and morale. It must be ironic for some people that the army of the holy land allows openly gay people to serve.

Lumping all gay people into a giant collective persona stomps all over the idea of individualism.

edit  

edit

 

I commend you for your

I commend you for your clarity of thought.

This isn't meant to be

This isn't meant to be hostile, but I was wondering if, in your experience, there are practicing Christians that are gay? If you do know some, did they communicate to you the contradiction with the lifestyle leanings and the commonly held beliefs towards homosexual activity in the bible? How do they reconcile this?

These questions are meant to put you on the spot and can be answered by anyone on this thread. I am just curious.

One more thing, for general consideration... I suspect there's a wide variety of cultural norms for gay people. (They don't all wear leather pants and speak in high-pitched voices) When people start defining the gay lifestyle and the gay agenda, this tends to lump all people of that persuasion together. What is the actual percentage of gay people that could accurately be described as "flaming?" Are they seen by the rest of the gay population similar to how swingers or promiscuous heteros are seen by straight people?

Thanks for your time.

 

"I don't have time for this. You all can continue your co-dependency posts and make yourselves feel all chummy... Frankly, you all don't represent where America is going and you might as well get used to it."

--The Dooper

Well...

I was wondering if, in your experience there are practicing Christians that are gay?

Do catholic priests count?

One more thing, for general consideration... I suspect there's a wide variety of cultural norms for gay people

Too many people think all gay people are card carrying members of a radical far left group. Most aren't.

http://online.logcabin.org/

http://www.gaypatriot.net/

Being gay doesn't preclude someone from being politically conservative.

 

Honestly

Howdy, 

My friends who are gay and christian. Some of them have never made any sexual contact, just clean relationships with men. Others simply found a church who accepts them. I mean...there are different beliefs out there...different ways people have interpreted the messages of the bible.  I know some people disagree with this idea...but everyone is allowed a different belief system if they so wish (even within Christianity). 

As far as the flaming question goes, I couldn't say an exact percentage.  Everyone gay man that I have been good friends with has not been a "flamer." That doesn't mean I don't see them...and I once held that view, the way straight people see swingers or promiscuous heteros.  But as with everyone...you just have to know the person...not the stereotype.  Cureboy once said on here...most gay men are as boring as the next person...you wouldn't even know. And really, that's the truth. I come on here to cause trouble because I can...but in public, not so much.  As my partner and I say...those f()cking parades don't represent everyone.

I hope that's a start.

Think Well.

Why do you end your

Why do you end your messages with "Think Well"?  It makes no sense, given your responses to this NB post.

There is no "interpretation" of the Bible.  Your friends are not "interpreting" the Bible.  Instead they are ignoring the blatantly obvious verses that forbid homosexuality. Ignorance of God's Word is ignorance of God himself.  Ignore God and God ignores you until you figure out what's going on.

I guarantee for each "Christian" gay friend you have, I know 10 more who have repented because they interpretted the Bible not through the veil of their own desires and preconceptions but with a heart and mind open to the Truths of God.  I'd love to meet your gay "Christian" friends and have a nice debate with them about the more obvious verses of the Bible.  I can guarantee, hands down, that they will not have a defense against the absolute, undeniable Truth.

As for your previous babble about "think[ing] more progressively".  I will not-- progressivism is about moving away from what is tried and true.  God is tried and True and that pisses you off.  It's people like you that deny Him and start your own denomination of Christianity with your (mis)interpretations of the Bible.  And, again, your interpretations and rather a willful denial of what angers you.  To dodge the truths of God is to be denier of the faith.  Your dodging friends should be questioning their faith and understanding of God.

Ok now...

I end my statements with think well...sometimes to be ironic, sometimes to annoy, and sometimes because, yes, I truly mean it.  I am not a christian and do not pretend to be one...I misinterpret nothing, to me the bible is just a book...but your inability to accept that others have different beliefs than you is blatant arrogance and just as bad as my calling people bigots for their religious beliefs.  But I don't mean what I say...I do it to annoy...unless someone like contrary comes along and wants a real discussion. You sit proudly in your own ignorance don't you.  

Think Well.

"wants a real

"wants a real discussion...."

Very funny. You blasted onto the scene here with little rejections of people's lengthy counter posts. However, now I see you're opening up a bit more and finding that people here actually DO want to discuss/debate, even if we're on different sides of issues. Not so intolerant, huh? But then, you like to annoy, or start out that way...

Also, maybe you should try doing things not to annoy. Do unto others... I believe it goes (and I don't even know if that's from the bible... yup, I'm not religious.)

Are you gay, btw? I'm not, and am fine with whatever you are. Just a question, like if you asked me if I was religious, or straight. :)

And gosh, just noticed your closer... "You sit proudly in your own ignorance don't you."

Barf.

 

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

"...your inability

"...your inability to accept that others have different beliefs than you is blatant arrogance."

So what 'different beliefs' do you have... other than the obvious?

Clue: A lifestyle or sexual preference is NOT a belief. 

Some times I love to play

Some times I love to play to trolls like you.  So I shall reply.

I have had a job of some sort since last I could remember.  Every single job I had to work with homosexuals, a transgender at one job, and, heck, I even had to work with a loud-mouth liberal two or three times. Ironically, almost every time I was on a team and I had to work closely with some people of the homosexual orientation.  But did I complain and treat them differently?  No.  I respected them as a fellow worker.  I flatout told each and every one of them that I am a Christian and that I absolutely do not accept the homosexual lifestyle, but I also mentioned that my faith teaches me patience-- not anger.

Tell me, how is my working peacefully with people whom I 100% disagree with ignorance (given the definition that I have inferred from your troll-mongering)?  I have not been ignorant one bit (although I do now realize I was wrong with the "ignore God and God ignores you" bit).  An expression of opinion is itself not ignorance.  Selecting to deny 100% the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle is not ignorance.  Using ignorance as an assault on persons of opposing opinion is, however, ignorant itself.  You ignore the fact that I can peacefully have an opinion that is wholly different from yours, that my opinion is mere words and has not become a malevolent action.  I do, however, live out my own opinion in this regard: I am not a homosexual.  I am 100% straight and there is not an element of ignorance in that lifestyle, nor is there any element of ignorance in defending that lifestyle.

"I am 100% straight and

"I am 100% straight and there is not an element of ignorance in that lifestyle, nor is there any element of ignorance in defending that lifestyle."

Man, I feel like I'm not worthy around here... :p Perfectly stated/expressed, AJ!!

This thread, this site -- and most (if not all) of it's right-leaing members -- when it comes to the issue of gays and that lifestyle, has absolutely NOTHING to do with "ignorance". And, may I add, they're also rarely, if ever, "intolerant".

The word "ignorance" is simply used as a weapon, just as minorities toss around the word "racism" when that's completely not applicable in so many instances as well.

 

* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change

It sounds like, in your

It sounds like, in your experience, gay people who have some level of Christian initiative, try to live a quiet life comfortable with their homosexual identity. However...

"...there are different beliefs out there...different ways people have interpreted the messages of the bible."

That is true, yet most Christians treat the biblical passages condemning homosexuality as an "abomination" as pretty literal. (Love the sinner, hate the sin) Are your friends attending a Christian church? I'm just curious if gay people can truly be comfortable with their identity if they have a Christian faith.

"As my partner and I say...those f()cking parades don't represent everyone."

I think the media plays a role in the perception that all gay people go running naked in the streets and flaunt their sexuality.

 

"I don't have time for this. You all can continue your co-dependency posts and make yourselves feel all chummy... Frankly, you all don't represent where America is going and you might as well get used to it."

--The "Dooper

BTW, I bring up the

BTW, I bring up the Christian questions because this country has a tradition of being Christian. I believe I saw a poll a number of years back that saw over 80% of people claim to be Christian. It seems that Christianity and homosexuality cannot really coexist.

The hopes that homosexuality will someday be accepted as natural in this country, and a perfectly legitimate behavior, will probably coincide with the United States no longer being a "Christian Nation."

Anyway, just my ramblings.

 

"I don't have time for this. You all can continue your co-dependency posts and make yourselves feel all chummy... Frankly, you all don't represent where America is going and you might as well get used to it."

--The "Dooper

but

 Not even every founding father was a Christian.  Ben Franklin was a deist.  Christians have been a majority for a while. But the idea is that this is still a place for everyone...even if lifestyles and religions disagree. 

Think Well.

Maybe not

There are a lot of revisionists out there.  The country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.  If you study the founding of the country you will see that Virginia was established with a charter to promote Christianity, Maryland was named after Queen Mary and was originally a Catholic State.  The writings of the founding fathers refer to God and the biblical message.  They also ensured that the country would accept all religions and allow people to practice their religion as their hearts directed them.  The Federalist Papers are an interesting read.  There was a lot of questioning and concern at that time.

It IS still a place for

It IS still a place for everyone.

As long as you don't overtly diss other's beliefs with your "God" in quotes crap. 

Hmmm.

Here is a National Review article calling for an end to DADT...

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODliYjkwN2RkNWExMWE5OGQxMzA2ODNlZTc5NTRhYjY=

Money quote: "Sexual orientation should be irrelevant while inappropriate sexual conduct — gay, straight, or otherwise — should be punished."

I'm sorry.  But this

I'm sorry.  But this cracks me up:

=======================================

Former Army Ranger Brian Jones claims close quarter combat conditions and gay soldiers don't mix.

BRIAN JONES: We've got to huddle together to stay warm and keep from freezing in the night.

=======================================

Dude.  Do you really honestly think that in the middle of a warzone, on a freezing night when you are huddled together for warmth...That is going to be the moment when the gay soldier next to you decides to make his move and try to cop a feel?

If this were a porn movie...Maybe.  But not in real life. 

 

Not in real life????

It does and will happen in real life. Open it up and issue the gays a uniform with a bullseye on the back. Combat will have a high friendly fire rate of death.

Where did the gay lefties conduct their poll? Gay city (SF) Ca.?

 

Old, Retired and glad of it.

You're saying our military

You're saying our military detests gays so much that they'll shoot them if they join?

Really?

From the article I linked...

"A December 18, 2006 Zogby poll of 545 GIs who served in Iraq and Afghanistan found that 73 percent considered themselves comfortable among gays. Also, 23 percent said they knew gay people in their units, while 45 percent believed they did. So, 68 percent of GIs confirmed or imagined that they worked with gay colleagues, with no evident clamor for their ejection. If there is a gay-fueled crisis in unit morale and cohesion, it appears to have gone undetected."

I imagine any friendly fire deaths are investigated intensively and shooting somebody for being gay is a bit much don't you think? Especially when the guy is on your side.

It does happen in real

It does happen in real life, eh?  Attempted homosexual seductions on the battlefield? 

Please post some reports of that.  Because I find it pretty hard to believe.

As a former sailor,

  I may not have seen actual combat in the field, but I have seen some of the interesting times and places that people choose to have sex.

  It doesn't seem to matter what else is going on, if there is ever a lull in action, people will attempt to have sex. 

Leave the BF'ing at Home

We don't ned to have the BFing likes of Murphy and his Gay buds in the Military.

What they do in their own home is fine and "dandy", but we don't need it in the Barraks.

Except that...

they aren't asking to have sex in the barracks. If I'm not mistaken straight soldiers aren't allowed to have sex there either.

Try reading the article I linked.

Bigot

Think Well Chasvs.

P.s. it's "need"

Hey BF'er

So if someone disagrees with you he's a bigot?

Libs are the bigots since no one is allowed to disagree with them!

No

I have used that term many times on this site...usually just to annoy. But you, you are a B I G O T. Your wonderful use of BF'er  and "dandy" simply proves it. It's not what you intended to say that counts, it's how it's interpreted. People can disagree with me all they want...you act like I want to stop your free thought. Hell, why would I want to do that...then who would I be able to bait by calling a bigot. So VF'er, have your thoughts and opinions, but you're the one who should be prepared to have someone disagree.  I know people will disagree with me around these parts.

Think Well.

The Don't Ask, Don't Tell

The Don't Ask, Don't Tell Law.

Another fine Clintonian Legacy: an actual law mandating LYING.

What is the gay agenda?

I think the above poster put it succinctly:

    "to force society to accept homosexuality as normal."

That pretty much sums it all up.  The key word here is "force". They utilize msm sympathy as a platform for gay propaganda. Pro-gay scripts are routinely written into prime time television programming and those nit-wit afternoon soaps. There is a flood of examples over the last 10 years or so -- the Brittany/Madonna kiss, Meredith Vierra girl/girl kiss, well-known gay storm-trooper and propagandist Mark Segal, LOGO cable channel, Ellen, the "queer" movement on college campuses which is flat-out advocacy propaganda, Will & Grace, LGBT, GLAAD, PFLAG, Act-Up, and  numerous other examples over the years --- all of them putting a happy-smiley face on gay issues and any disagreement or criticism is deemed "intolerance" and "hate" by the people who control the MSM. But then, you really knew all that anyway didn't you?

WS, Is that any way to

WS,

Is that any way to treat the new local under bridge dweller?  His feelings might be hurt and we can't have that these days.  Really, the idea that these people, this group of individuals who practice deviance and acts that go against nature and God might be trying to force something on the rest of us is right on.  And yes, the fuzzy little troll did know the answer when he asked the question.  Although he would not research the answer and report back. 

 

Don't worry about my

Don't worry about my feelings, did it look like I worried about yours...you just keep searching for that answer and damn it...make it a good one. I don't need an answer for you. I don't believe there is a gay agenda, just a group equal rights activists. You got one thing right though...I am pretty fuzzy.

Think Well.

jquam

Equal rights?  Now I know that you need to do your research.  As for feelings, you live your life based on feelings.  That is why we need to be sensitive to your position.  If you are good you get a gold star and the opportunity to sit at the big peoples table.  You will actually get silverware instead of plastic utensils.  And I know that I got more than one thing right.  Keep trying, you're getting better but still have a long way to go.  Don't let that discourage you.

I think I'm going to "think

I think I'm going to "think well" and start a group called "Straight-Only Advocacy Group".  Because I feel like an outcast in the midst of all these gay people.  That-- that just hurts my feelings.

Actually, it would seem

Actually, it would seem there already is a Straight Only Advocacy Group.

Its called the United States Military.

AJ

Ok. Just as long as you truly do... 

Think Well.

I think I might sue some

I think I might sue some companies for not being straight enough...

I'm liberal enough to accept

I'm liberal enough to accept the fact that there are those who will practice their perversions in a mostly free society. But the gay movement has been "weaponized" in the last decade so that homosexuals who once merely asked to be left alone are now fighting to get their agenda in our grade schools and sensitize the young and innocent to regular gay propaganda and queer theories. I think the intention is to encourage homo "puppy love" and attempt to put it on an equal footing with normal puppy love between a young boy and a young girl. Just another attempt by the gay storm-troopers to normalize perversion in all segments of society.

J knows that too

WS,

That is the problem with the agenda.  They claim they want equal rights when in fact they have every right of every other American.  But then they want to take it further and further to the point that they are more equal than the majority of Americans and receive special rights.  That cannot be allowed and needs to be stopped.  The idea that they will infiltrate the school agenda and pass information to my children without my knowledge really chaps me.  And I will not allow that to happen.  They can live their lives and contribute in some ways, but the fostering of their agenda needs to die a quick death.

What special

What special rights?  

Exemption from paying income taxes? 

Mandatory first class seating in all plane trips? 

Authority to cut in line in front of everybody else at the DMV?

A special, exclusive Double Coupon Day at the A & P?

What rights are gays asking for that straights don't already have?

cure, once again

You know full well that the agenda is set up to endow the annointed status on the homosexual community.  Now there are "hate crimes" when before it was just a crime.  Why do we need hate crimes?  A battery, assault, murder etc is still a battery, assault and murder before.  I will say that it was interesting arresting a homosexual couple for domestic battery when called to a domestic disturbance.  Should it have been labeled as a hate crime when it was homosexual on homosexual.

Why should they recieve special treatment that he rest of society does not.  Why should the agenda be rammed down parents throats in school presentations when the parents don't want it?  They get special treatment in many ways.

Keep paying the taxes and standing in line at the DMV.  It makes you the same as the rest of us.  That we like.  And I have nothing against you.   

As for the hate crimes.  I

As for the hate crimes.  I tell you what.  You want to take away the hate crime provision for Blacks, Hispanics, Jews and everybody else that currently gets that provision and then I'll be on board with you.  Because that is definitely not a special right for gays only.

Furthermore, if one really wanted to, they could argue "Why do we need a Black History Month" in school?  "Why do we need to celebrate Cinco De Mayo" in school? 

If you want to protect your children from this agenda (I still don't know what the definition of this agenda is), you'll need to do a lot more than control the schools.  You're going to need to throw away your television, cancel your newspaper subscription, blindfold your children when you go in public, and prevent them from having conversations while playing with neighborhood children when you are not around to censor the conversations.

 

I am with you

Cure,

You hit it on the head with the first two paragraphs.  One of the problems is the majority is tired of all of the "special" rights for the minorities.  It is political correctness run amok.

The homosexual agenda I speak about is the intrusion in the schools with the teaching that it is natural to have a same sex "family", that everyone is "homosexual" and you need to explore that starting in grade school.  Parents complain and are put in jail.  Yes, put in jail.  Its late for me and I cannot go into intricate detail.  Suffice it to say that they are allowed to bring their material to grade school and I as a parent am not allowed to opt my child out.  It is state dependent but the movement is growing. 

You are being reasonable

You are being reasonable and I do appreciate that.

The whole hate crime thing is kind of a slippery slope for me. I mean, the Ku Klux Klan went around beating blacks for no other reason than they were black. Hitler killed six million Jews simply because they were Jewish. In my mind, that's a hate crime and its particularly heinous and deserves a greater punishment. But if somebody beat the crap out of me because I shot off my smart-ass mouth to the wrong guy...I wouldn't be so presumptuous to say it was only because I was gay. I've known people who have wanted to kick my ass and they had no idea I was gay.

The school thing. I really don't think schools are encouraging children to experiment with homosexuality. But talking about same sex families...Another slippery slope for me. I mean if somebody in class mentioned that Susie has two daddies and the teacher said, "Now class. We all know Susie's family is abnormal. The Bible tells us its an abomination". Yeah, I would have a problem with that. Conversely, if the teacher said, "Yes. Susie has two daddies. But that is to be encouraged". I would have a problem with that too. Then again if the teacher simply replied, "Well some families are different. Some families just have a mommy. Some boys and girls just live with an aunt or a grandparent" and proceeded to change the subject...I'd be OK with that.

I mean, you can't expect a teacher not to acknowledge that not everybody is the same. But I do agree a teacher shouldn't advocate one way or the other.

The homosexual agenda

The homosexual agenda infiltrating schools is THE NO. 1 lightning rod issue.

Very young elementary school kids are being exposed to this BEFORE they even get to the hetero/sex ed curriculum.

And now you gotta jump and switch the channel quick so your kid isn't exposed to another "Thomas Beattie" man-giving-birth update. That crap should be on only after 11 pm.

It's gotta be stopped. 

Gays?

I have no problem with homos who join for patriotism. 

What is left out is many homos join as sexual perversion.

I doubt is any would be shot but they would certainly be removed away from units requiring close cohesian...

They join as sexual

They join as sexual perversion?  What is that supposed to mean?  They are that hard up for sexual encounters that they decide to join the military, get sent God knows where, risk having their bodies blown apart by an extremist with an IED...All for the chance at maybe scoring some sex?

Who would have thought Rube Goldberg had gay descendents? 

Rubes

"Who would have thought Rube Goldberg had gay descendents?"

I'm not even going to join in the gays/mil discussion, but I just had to comment, that line was FUNNY!

I think the problem is a

I think the problem is a religious one.

That is.. the reason for a military is to WIN in battle.. and usually, those who are religious (and that is 80% of the population of the EARTH), believe that GOD determines who wins or loses in a battle. And so.. doing something which causes God to dislike your side.. is not a wise idea.

IF God were to decide that an abomination in the ranks is cause enough to kill the entire platoon.. or favor the other side.. then the issue becomes more than merely your preference sexually. It becomes a WAR issue. And the God of the BIBLE does so designate such people as an abomination to HIM. So those who fight in an army which expects His blessing going into battle are concerned that GOD might just not give that blessing.. if openly professing homosexuals are among the troops.

Not knowing if someone is gay, or having it covered.. is different in the way it is dealt with by God. OPENLY declaring sin is seen by God as worthy of His wrath.. as He said He sent His wrath and destruction upon Sodom for their open declaration of their sin:

Isa 3:8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.

Isa 3:9 The show of their countenance does witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they do not hide it. Woe to their soul! for they have rewarded evil to themselves.

Note that EVIL comes to those who declare their SIN openly.

All I am saying is.. if the US military wants to LOSE.. the first thing to do is tick God off.. this accomplishes that. How else can the enemy win over the most powerful nation on earth.. but to debase and remove God's favor from them? Militarily.. FROM THE SPIRITUAL WARFARE... this move is a master stroke if it succeeds. Because after the loss in the spiritual.. will come the loss of LIFE in the physical.

It is not an issue of gay preferences for sex.. it is about combat and the ability to WIN a war.. which, if God is on your side, is good. But if He won't bless you.. is BAD.. like, goodbye to the rest of the troops in the battalion. THAT is the real issue here, the spiritual issue.. and the one which will get a lot of good, innocent and straight people killed in the future.. if the gay agenda goes through in this area. To preserve the troops from God's wrath is necessary, and wise.. and to do that.. there must be no open profession of abomination in God's sight.  

Note that Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen in the above quote... the war was LOST.. because they provoked God by their OPEN profession of SIN. Militarily.. the loss happens because God takes offense. I don't care if people accept homosexuality or not in society.. but in the military, it cannot be allowed to become openly professed or we will LOSE in battle. I do not wish to see the US RUINED and FALLEN to its enemies, who stand by the gates now with terrorist intentions.. so this open profession of homosexuality cannot for the safety of the troops be tolerated.

Another concern I have is

Another concern I have is for the gay military personnel themselves. Because if they are OPENLY professing their orientation, though most religious people do object to it, the Muslims act on that kind of objection as a matter of course. Muslim troops are a reality in the US Defense forces and they are far more likely to shoot them because their religion teaches that is what you DO to people with this orientation, not just object to it. (They aren't told to love the sinner and hate the sin, etc.) If you look at Muslim countries.. such atrocities happen there all the time. So they could be shot.. accidentally, perhaps.. or so they may say. What the various kinds of Christians take to a degree of objection, the Muslims take to a degree of action which could cause gay military deaths. In spite of the disagreement Christians have with gays, it is love for the sinner.. and it is not right to make gays into target practice for the stronger ACTING faith of Muslims in the military. And the fact is.. they could end up target practice in true and very stark reality. Just not a wise degree of pursuit, IMO.. for gays in the military. From today's news:

Gays in Iraq terrorized by threats, rape, murder

  • Gay Iraqi describes being raped for 15 days by gunmen at 16

  • He says he never told his family: "I could not say it, it's too much shame"

  • Expert: Homosexuality is seen as a "Western import," grounds for brutality

  • Another gay Iraqi says he'd commit suicide before telling his family he is gay

  • Coming out in Iraq could mean a death sentence or torture.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/24/gay.iraqis/index.html?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

In light of the above CNN article today, if you had an openly gay member of the US military, and he was sent to Iraq and had to do joint exercises with Iraqi personnel, and they found out he was gay, could an Iraqi Muslim person kill (or accidentally friendly fire upon) the US serviceman? It puts them at risk in Muslim countries. The EU is becoming increasingly Muslim, too. What about joint ventures with the military of those countries? Surely this should concern gays? Why should they pursue their own deaths? Isn't that a bit crazy? And they won't make the rest of the world UN-religious or change their beliefs. At home, they are free and tolerated (because Christians object but don't kill them) - but in the rest of the world, another standard can hold sway. The "don't ask, don't tell" protects them and should not be removed. Being openly gay is not an advantage to those in the military, but a great liability anywhere else they are sent in the world.

Hey goob

In light of the above CNN article today, if you had an openly gay
member of the US military, and he was sent to Iraq and had to do joint
exercises with Iraqi personnel, and they found out he was gay, could an
Iraqi Muslim person kill (or accidentally friendly fire upon) the US
serviceman? It puts them at risk in Muslim countries

Did it ever occur to you that the only people they are being openly gay to are the recruiters and the bureau of personnel? It isn't any different than marking your race or ethnicity on a form.

They aren't telling everyone and anyone and certainly aren't wearing any special insignia. If they feel comfortable enough to tell their squadmates they may. But they certainly aren't going to advertise it. Why would they?

So how the fudge is anyone else going to know whether or not any particular soldier is gay? You would have to be a douche-bag of the  highest order to tell the enemy anything personal about any of your fellow troops.

The EU is becoming increasingly Muslim, too. What about joint ventures with the military of those countries

Britain allows gay people to serve.

The muslim extremists we are fighting are trying to kill any americans they can. That includes me, blacks, jews, hipanics, asians, the pastor at my church, gays and self-righteous ass***** like you.

 

Jeebus

That is.. the reason for a military is to WIN in battle.. and usually,
those who are religious (and that is 80% of the population of the
EARTH), believe that GOD determines who wins or loses in a battle. And
so.. doing something which causes God to dislike your side.. is not a
wise idea

Nope it cant possibly have anything to do with superior tactics, greater numbers, or more advanced military technology and training.

The U.S has lost how many battles in its history? And for some reason it was because God didn't approve of something? 

IF God were to decide that an abomination in the ranks is cause enough
to kill the entire platoon.. or favor the other side.. then the issue
becomes more than merely your preference sexually

That has to be one of the most mind numbling stupid and arrogant statements I've ever heard. Are you serious? Sadly you are.

Any given soldier is a sinner in some form or another. Hell the military is already accepting convicted felons.

"Last year, the Army gave moral waivers to 106 applicants convicted of
burglary, 15 of felonious break-ins, 11 of grand-theft-auto, and eight
of arson. It also admitted five rape/sexual-assault convicts, two
felony child molesters, two manslaughter convicts, and two felons
condemned for “terrorist threats including bomb threats.” From the article I linked earlier.

I suppose the respective units they are assigned to are DOOMED!!

How much more of an inane and self-righteous gas bag can you be than to assert that combat losses are caused by someone pissing off God!

In every war from the Revolutionary  War to the present day the U.S has lost battles and troops in some agonzing defeats. And you're  going to insist on blaming the troops because they weren't doing what YOU believe is God's will. Can I have His hotline number?

But if He won't bless you.. is BAD.. like, goodbye to the rest of the troops in the battalion.

Why on earth would God curse someone for the sins of another?

I think Johnny Cash can best express my sentiments to you...

http://i124.photobuc...

MV, I wouldn't even bother

MV, I wouldn't even bother with this individual.

This is the same kind of thinking that leads those fruit loops in the Westboro Baptist Church to protest military funerals because they think God is punishing America for allegedy embracing homosexuality.

You'll never make any headway with them.

mvfreeman, You said that,

mvfreeman, You said that, "The muslim extremists we are fighting are trying to kill any americans they can."

True.. but that was not the point I was making.

I was making an argument that FRIENDLY FIRE incidents.. would likely increase with openly professing gays. And it isn't just the recruiter who knows.. if it is on the forms. Disclosing it openly.. would allow a lot more people to know. People would "come out" and then.. well, I was just concerned for gays safety.

Guess compassion is lost on you.. :)

And I don't appreciate being lumped in with the loonies who protest the military, and picket their funerals. Obviously, I support the military.. even the gays in it. You don't see me calling for their deaths.. but for their protection.

As for the second post you made... you deprecated my saying that God wins battles, not men.

You said, "Nope it cant possibly have anything to do with superior tactics, greater numbers, or more advanced military technology and training."

Well, those things are given by God as a blessing from Him.. and can be removed by Him to the loss of even the greatest military power on earth.. check history. Though someone trusts in "chariots and horses" or "more advanced military technology, training and greater numbers".. that is not truly what wins battles. Victory.. is God's.

Psa 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

1Ch 29:11 Yours, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and You are exalted as head above all.

But you would know none of that because you are not a spiritual man.. and it is lost on you. Those who have ears to hear understand what I speak of.. the physical flows from the spiritual.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You say, "The U.S has lost how many battles in its history? And for some reason it was because God didn't approve of something?" 

That is a very simplistic view. But the outcome was surely in the hand of God. He was the one who determines the destinies of individuals.. of countries.. and of nations.

Dan 5:21 .. the most high God rules in the kingdom of men, and He appoints over it whomsoever He will.

Such is the Bible view.. that God appoints over nations whom He wills.. so that the battle goes the way He wishes it to. The US became a nation and was not quashed by England because God willed it.. not because of superior tactics in war. George Washington being a sly fox and retreating, could also have been seen by history as not sly but cowardly, if the battle had gone the other way. It was providence that God blessed the endeavor and created the great nation of the United States for His own good reasons. And every battle since has had His superintendence upon it.. and will in the future.

You say, "Any given soldier is a sinner in some form or another. Hell the military is already accepting convicted felons."

That may be true.. but God did not say of felons that He would overthrow and destroy a city (or nation) for that sin.. but He did say this of the sin of "Sodom and Gomorrah" - for which cause He overthrew those cities and destroyed them.. saying they are set forth as an EXAMPLE that others may heed.  

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

What is the EXAMPLE for.. if not to say that these kinds of people can incur the wrath of God and cause destruction?

So those who are felons in the ranks do not doom the people.. but what of this saying that God sets this forth as an EXAMPLE to men? Are we to conclude that because it offends your sensibilities that God will likewise be so minded? Or will these words of Scripture stand.. and the offense be seen before God? And exactly HOW will He judge an OPEN profession of that which HE says is abominable to HIM? I do not care one bit what men think.. but we should care about what God thinks.. unless we are fools. For it is the position of the fool to laugh at God's edicts as though He does not exist or is a mere man whose words can be ignored or overcome.

You ask, "Why on earth would God curse someone for the sins of another?"

You obviously have not read the Bible. Ever heard of the Battle of Ai? There is Biblical precedent showing that the actions of one can be visited on the many.. and along with this pronouncement from God of His willingness to bring destruction upon a nation for this ONE particular sin.. it is wise not to provoke Him to anger. If I stand accused by you of anything, clearly it is that I fear God, while you.. do not. Which, then, is the more foolish position? You despise me for my religion, then despise me for what it really is.. my care for the opinions and edicts of Almighty God in His Word, the Bible. Admit your opposition is not to me.. but to what the Bible itself decrees. Your conflict, therefore, is not with men, but with God.

I was the one who made the

I was the one who made the reference to the Westboro Baptist Church. I wouldn't accuse you of celebrating the death of our soldiers. But you claim God would let our soldiers lose a battle against those who would do the world harm because we would dare have a gay guy in the platoon. WBC claims that God punishes America with things like 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina because America "tolerates" homosexuality. The logic is frighteningly similar.

If God is really that cold and calculated about the matter...Well, I just couldn't worship a God like that. No matter how many Biblical passages you point me to.

Deroy Murdock

Who is/was though of as a conservative, seems to be on the other side of this one.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

LOL

You're a day late Sarc.

I posted the NR link to the same article earlier in the thread.