Vick Suspended: Media Still Pushing Victim Story


The National Football League has finally acted, suspending former Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick indefinitely without pay in the wake of Vick admitting that he was the primary funding behind the dog-fighting operation run from his property. The question now is- what will the NAACP and Vick's media enablers do?

Vick's guilt has not been seriously in doubt as the evidence continues to mount that he was the moving force behind the dog-fighting and that he was the de facto ringleader of the entire operation. However, this has not deterred the NAACP and columnists like the New York Times's Selena Roberts and the Kansas City Star's Jason Whitlock from calling for Vick to be granted a second chance. These are the same people who were so eager to condemn the college kids at Duke and who rushed to judge them based on a lying prostitute-cum-stripper's contradictory stories. These same people were not willing to acknowledge their rush to judgment in that case, but are now calling for Vick- and admitted criminal- to be allowed to resume his football career. Does anyone else see the irony?

I seriously doubt whether Vick will ever play another game for the Falcons. Whether Vick should be allowed to resume his football career is a matter for the leadership of the NFL. Personally, once he serves his time, I think he should be granted the same chance as Ray Lewis and other athletes. If he can still play, then he ought to be given the chance to prove it. However, the mercy that the NAACP and so many columnists are calling for in the case of Vick (a rich, famous, black athlete) stands in stark contrast to their reactions to a trio of white college boys. Whitlock, whom I admire as a normally outstanding columnist, even when I disagree with him, at least did have the grace to congratulate the Dukies on their run to the championship game last year, and he was one of the few members of the media who has recognized the tragic rush to judgment that so many media members engaged in. However, people like Duff Wilson and Selena Roberts- to say nothing of the NAACP- have remained convinced in their own righteousness, admitting no wrongdoing. The NAACP and Roberts are is still trying to pass off the idea that Vick is somehow a victim in the whole affair. In fact, the NAACP says,

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."

Meanwhile, Roberts is complaining because Vick's friends have agreed to trestify against him. Apparently Roberts still thinks that Vick is "trapped in his circle of friends". She wrote her column apparently insisting that Vick's co-criminals shouldn't have agreed to testify against him, as though this was a major problem. Funny- I don't recall her calling for the Duke lacrosse team to stay silent, and they at least had the excuse of being innocent- something that neither Vick nor his friends could claim.

Isn't it time that these self-righteous, arrogant members of the Old Media and the Victim Lobby recognize their own failings? After all, it is tough to remove a spot from another's eye when one cannot even recognize the plank in their own. And the plank in Old Media's eye is growing larger day by day. Only constant reminders can make progress toward its eventual removal.


UPDATE: I have added the link to Jason Whitlock's story on Vick- I forgot to include it originally.


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The National Football

The National Football League has finally acted, suspending former Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick indefinitely without pay

Hopefully by his gonads. See how he likes it.

Check out my latest YouTube...but only if you support the troops and their mission: Better Men Than Me/The Battle For Fallujah

Menwhile....

"Meanwhile, the NFL quarterback's father asked his son to give up dogfighting, or to at least put property used in the venture in the names of others to avoid being implicated, a report in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution said."

So even his father has the attitude that if you have to break the law, at least don't get caught.

 

 

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

I've had it with Michael Vick-victim

I lived in VA BCH while Vick was growing up in Hampton and I can tell you that this isn't Michael's first brush with the law.  This kid always got off because he was a great football player.  One of my former students who was at Tech when he was there said he was in one of his classes and he showed up at most a handful of times.  I'm not surprised his old man said what he said.  His mother has made excuses for him as well.  His younger brother Marcus is no better and Tech didn't do anything with him until his little drug incident got out. 

This is an unfortunate fact of the student who is good at sports is that he or she but generally he gets away with everything and winds up "passing" more times than not.  I taught for two years in Hinesville, GA, and that was the only place where I ever saw those who played sports get what they deserved when they got in trouble no matter if the big game was the next week or what. 

Mountineers Played Vick

 I'm a big fan of WVU Mountineers and we would play Vick and VA Tech and the sports caster would gush all over Vick and his younger brother,we won and we lost against VA Tech.they all made out like when VA Tech left the Big East we would be lost without them and look at us now.    

 

 

The Rebel Of West Virginia

Never vote for Byrd

Which Vick gave the WV Fans the obsence gester?

I can't remember was it Michael or Marcus that gave WVU fans the obsence gester.  

PS I only voted for Bird once when I was young and still liberal.   

 

i voted for Bird

for MVP, now Byrd that's a hood of all colors

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

Marcus

I could be wrong.

as you can tell I'm not for Byrd or ever will be 

 

The Rebel Of West Virginia

Never vote for Byrd

Rebel

I drove through WV once and I think every bridge I drove across was named after Byrd.  I felt like I was in old Russia with Stalin's picture hanging everywhere. 

The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.

 

A time to snicker

...and people always wonder why I always snicker, and sometimes laugh hysterically, when I hear the term "student-athlete".   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Let us take a look at the

Let us take a look at the real victims here.

  1. The dogs (all of them involved in this)
  2. Vick's Team mates
  3. The fans of Atlanta
  4. The children who looked up to him as a roll model 
  5. The Fans of NFL football
  6. Vick's Family

There may be more but his next uniform will be bright Orange of the prison he will be in.

The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.

 

Michael Vick

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation..."

AS A SOCIETY, WE SHOULD AID IN HIS REHABILITATION...!

....AID IN HIS REHABILITATION!!!!

This man's athletic prowess is supposed to negate the fact that he is little more than a cretin with an intellect just above thug average. I see 15 year olds playing soccer with just as much passion and ability and were supposed to worship this a****le.

He and his ilk deserve NOTHING from our society. If his character was not washed clean of such thinking in elementary school, f**k 'em.

I really like Jack Bauers idea above. Let's do it at a local mall.

Actually, I'm waiting for

Actually, I'm waiting for this whole thing to be George Bush's fault.  I'm surprised it's taking them so long to figure out the angle.

Hey!  I've got an idea for a new web site!  I'll call it "Six degrees to George Bush".  Kinda like the old theory that everyone in the world is at most six relationships away from anyone else in the world.

It'll go like this: the web site posts a problem or perceived wrong or some sort of ill of the world, and the site's visitors must use real events or people to somehow blame George Bush for it within six steps.  And it has to be (I can't believe I'm going to say this) plausible.  In other words you can't just pick a problem like Hurricane Katrina, and immediately say "George Bush's fault!"  You'd have to go like:

1) Hurricane Katrina, caused by:

2) Global Warming, caused by:

3) excess carbon emissions, caused by:

4) humans use of fossil fuels, foisted upon us by:

5) evil oil companies, propped up by:

6) GEORGE BUSH!!!!  Six steps, I win!!!

Wow, this could be so much fun! Okay, okay, let's start this one:

1) Michael Vick's dogfighting "issues"...any takers?

Bonus points if you work Karl Rove into the trail back to George Bush!  Of course I realize that this is one competition at which Libs will not only enjoy (and Lord knows they do so hate competition), but will immediately and forever kick our collective ass.

Am I missing the link to

Am I missing the link to the Whitlock story? And do you have a link to what he said about the Duke case? 

Still looking for the link,

Still looking for the link, 'cause the only Whitlock/Vick story I've read has no pleasantries for the QB. 

Although I don't see why Vick couldn't get a "second chance" after serving his time. 

A legit reason to say "no"

Oh, I can see why.

Deterioration of skills.   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

NAACP already spoke

I believe the National Association for the Advancement of Lawless Colored People already spoke in telling the NFL to let Vick play last week.

I have already mentioned that what people are so upset about is exactly what dog, cat and bird breeders do all the time........and people buying pets benefit from it in getting perfect pets. These dogs are most happy chewing on each other. That is what a Pit Bull is.

No on seems the least bit upset that PETA wants to do away with all pets which means every pet is dead and no one seems the least bit upset the Humane Society is gassing millions of dogs and cats each year and that Bob Barker is ripping reproductive organs out of animals by the millions each year.

So where is the gonad outrage at a million to 3 million times worse by these prestine liberal animal worshippers? Michael Vick is akin to a terrorist who murders 7 people and the world is outraged, but there sits Joe Stalin murdering 40 million people and no one utters a peep.

Why everyone is so disgusted by one and not the real butchers who are dumping pets in animal tankage so they end up in fertilizer is a world apart.

The way to solve this is to let the AKC get ahold of the Pit Bull as they do all other breeds and let them turn them into mindless pooches like they did to the Irish Setter in destroying them. That way the PB will not have an instinct to fight and there will not be any more dog fights with them.

Then we can all go on and ask why people cheered when Bob Barker was saying, "Take a knife, cut out healthy organs, stick needles in and make a puppy bleed" is so wonderful.

Vick isn't a victim. He just didn't have a backwoods lawyer smart enough to focus the attention on the real culprits in the ivory towers. The Feds would have dropped this case in 10 minutes and the NFL would have swept it away when pictures of NFL exec's dogs stuck in kennels in back of their house never getting out for weeks and pictures of politicians kicking their dogs.

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

The World Crucifies and Excommunicates ... God Forgives

Part of the cruelty of this world and the mainstream media is that it tries to destroy the celebrities it builds up when they make a mistake.

That's not what God does.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalms 103:10-12

(10) He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

(11) For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

(12) As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Hebrews 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

}}---> Those are God's promises, Josephsamuelson

Now find me the chapter and verse where Jesus said to the thief next cross over:  Tonight I'll be in Paradise, but you can walk away from this man-imposed sentence right now"

Are you sure you're not debra in men's clothing?

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

Scary person

Vick is a sadist. He and his mob should be put away for a longish while. Without serious help, he will hurt living creatures that feel pain again and next time it may be a human being.

As for his fans: They can't handle the truth. From comments I've read on other sites, some aren't willing to let go the fantasy that this man actually comes close to the holy image in their heads. Idol worship is an addiction that blinds them to Vick's horrible reality. 

As for the intellectuals & the groups defending him: There was a doctorate from Temple Univ. on Bill O'Reilly. His rationalizations for Vick and why this is happening totally missed the point. He wouldn't acknowledge the elephant in the room: Vick is evil.

That would actually require committing himself to a strong belief.

This is what happens when intellect overrules the heart--commitment to nothing, and the sidelining of what this society needs most: wisdom.

It's disgusting to see so many smart people mired in wishy-washiness. It's like nobody has any balls anymore. Even O'Reilly was too easy on Vick. Whatever happened to real men who defended the weak and defenseless?

I guess they're in Iraq.

 

 

 

}}---> mired in wishy washy

Everybody with a Law, Psychology, Divinity, Journalism degree just sees the opportunity for 15 minutes of fame is they can just come up with a new angle to a hot story.

And the MSM is panting for all they can get.  Small wonder they'll believe the Sharpton told a Favre/dolphin analogy.

With news travelling so fast, there's no sense checking the veracity of a source.

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

The problem for Vick playing again...

Will be getting-hired again. Imagine yourself as a team owner. No matter HOW talented Vick is, you have to know that PETA will never forgive Vick for this. Do you want loud, nutty, smelly left-wing protesters with nothing else to do outside every one of your games? Why invite the hassle for yourself, your team, and your fans?

And no, it doesn't matter that this is stupid because there's no "beat the living-hell out of a long string of girlfriends" PETA-equivalent. I'm not saying this situation is morally-right, but it's reality...He may play football professionally again, but IMO it won't be in the NFL.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Vick the victim

This is a cultural thing. If you are an 'African American', by definition, you cannot be a criminal. You are, and always will be, a victim. You can rob, rape, and murder, and it is always, ALWAYS, the fault of white society.

Those are the rules as defined by Sharpton, Jackson, the MSM, etc..

D

Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.

Woof woof. Check out my

Woof woof.

Check out my latest YouTube...but only if you support the troops and their mission: Better Men Than Me/The Battle For Fallujah

They Vicked him

And that's the real reason for the severe overrepresentation of Blacks in our prisons.

What the heck, I heard as many "Paris Hilton as victim" stories.  And how about that guy T. Cullen Davis?  Sandy Berger?  Michael Blake?  Plastic surgery and cosmetic concealer sure make them look White to me. Sure, you can argue through your prism that each of these situations is different, and they are.  Vick's case is unlike any I've seen.

Now, let's all kick back and watch the Phil Spectorcle

~LYDSEXICS UNTIE!~

Minority facts

Over the course of the last three decades blacks have accounted for 52% of America's homicides.

The FBI sorted racial backgrounds until 1979 and from 1976-79 the Japanese American homicide rate was 1 per 100,000.

Why is this racial sector omitted?

People kill, not guns.

JDW

News media: Scoreboard for terrorists

 

Mr. Newcomb... While I

Mr. Newcomb...

While I agree with much of what you say about the Vick case, I think in the interest of fairness and accuracy you should have pointed out that the national president of the NAACP, Dennis Courtland Hayes, explicitly stated that Vick should not be considered a victim and "must absolutely account for what he has done."   

Mr. Hayes certainly has more authority in communicating the views of the NAACP than a local chapter head.

Thanks, Jer

The only victims in this

The only victims in this situation are the dogs.  As far as I'm concerned, the mere suggestion that someone so sadistic and abusive as Michael Vick should be granted a second chance is ludicrous.  He's a scumbag of the highest order and should simply rot.

That said, it's interesting to see how cases like these expose the fragile alliances within the Democrat party.  When the interests of one liberal interest group are at odds with those of another, the Democrats cannot stand up for what is right on principle, they work towards placating both factions instead.  From Don Imus to OJ Simpson, from William Jefferson to Michael Vick, the Democrat Party refuses to stand up to bullies from one of their special interest groups even if it means doing the right thing. 

 

I'm curious,

I'm curious, fitzfong...

just exactly for how long are you suggesting Mr. Vick "should simply rot"?  The rest of his life?  No matter what efforts he were to make towards redemption, or forgiveness; or regardless of any good deeds he were to perform to make amends for his obvious transgressions?  He has been judged pretty harshly--and rightfully so--but I can certainly envision circumstances under which a "second chance" might be appropriate.

With respect to your indictment of the Democrat Party, I think you may have a point concerning William Jefferson, but would you provide some examples of how the party has failed to "do the right thing" or "stand up to bullies" like Imus, Simpson, and Vick?

Thanks, Jer

Let's see, Michael Vick

Let's see, Michael Vick organized and financed a sadistic gambling operation where dogs were tortured and murdered for the entertainment of mindless riff-raff.  Several dogs were either drowned, hanged or electrocuted because Michael Vick had nothing better to do with his free time and significant money than to exploit and harm other creatures.  That makes him a sociopath.  At that point, I couldn't give a crap whether or not he achieves "redemption".  I refuse to have someone who glosses over these facts using such euphemisms as "transgressions" and "might be appropriate" preach to me over forgiveness.

Imus: All of this douchebag's lefty guests (David Gregory, Tim Russert, John Kerry) abandoned ship as soon as Al Sharpton showed up with his bullhorn.  And the fact that Sharpton still has influence after the Tawana Brawley fraud is yet more proof that Democrats cave to bullies among their ranks.

OJ Simpson: Gil Garcetti, the liberal DA in Los Angeles County was more concerned with the perception of "fairness" and in placating the likes of Danny Bakewell  than in pursuing a proper murder conviction.  So he ordered a change of venue from where the murder took place (West LA) to Downtown LA.  The left-wing media allowed the relentless taunting of Christopher Darden as an "Uncle Tom" by defense attorneys.  The prosecution hung the only competent detective out to dry because they couldn't get an irrelevant tape thrown out of court.  I could go on...

Michael Vick: The mere discussion of the viability of this creep's career is bad enough.  The acts themselves were disgraceful and totally unworthy of any defense.  Michael Vick is a grown man, subject to the same freedoms and responsibilities as the rest of us.  The fact that the media will allow this to be turned into an issue of race is cynical and embarrassing.   

fitzfong.... My failure

fitzfong....

My failure to repeat the horrific details of the federal indictment against Vick may well be a "gloss"[ing] over of facts, but I assumed that you and most likely everyone else here were already sufficiently familiar with the relevant specifics of the case.  Inasmuch as I live in Atlanta, have closely followed news reports, and have read replications of actual court documents, including the Summary of Facts filed by the government and the Plea Agreement signed by Vick, a regurgitatiion of his unlawful and indefensible behavior added nothing to my knowledge level.  As a matter of fact, I haven't been a particularly avid fan or strong supporter of Vick for some time, due to his checkered history of judgment lapses [there I go with another euphemism].  Nevertheless, I was somewhat taken aback by the absolutist tone of your [let him] "simply rot" declaration--thus prompting my question to you regarding "how long...? under what circumstances...?,etc.  Turning up the volume of your rant may have been cathartic, and I suppose does qualify as a response of sorts, but it didn't directly answer my question.  However, at the risk of sounding too presumptuous, may I simply summarize your position as being "no matter what...let'm rot?  Finally, sorry if I sounded "preachy"....I didn't intend to.

In reference to the Democrats vs. the "bullies" issue:  As far as Imus, it would seem your real objection relates to Al Sharpton, who I likewise have had litle respect for, dating back to the Brawley case--although I do think he has tried to become slightly more mainstream in recent years [but not enough for me and I believe most other Democrats].  It's odd though...I rarely, if ever, see the Reverend except on Fox News.  I wonder why.  Are they trying to legitimize him and give him credibility, or are they (figuring his image to be predominantly negative) attempting to promote him as the face of the Democratic Party.  I suspect the latter.

The Simpson case was quite possibly the most ineptly prosecuted capital case in American history--and he still should have been convicted.  [It would have helped if Fuhrman hadn't lied however.  He and the prosecutors really botched it.]  But, good grief, the suggestion that Garcetti's unwise venue choice and the media's allegedly soft treatment of the defense team constitutes proof the "Democrat Party" is unprincipled stretches logic past the breaking point.  Let me turn the question around.  Is the failure of the Republican Party to condemn incendiary statements by Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, or even Rush Limbaugh (whom the GOP made an honorary member of Congress) evidence of a lack of principles?  The pandering argument cuts both ways.

Later, Jer

By the way, I just noticed the Falcons are seeking a return of 22M of Vick's 27M contract.  Ouch!

 

Jer,Thank you for

Jer,

Thank you for permitting me to engage in catharsis.  Here I was thinking that I was directly answering your question.  Turns out I was only blowing off steam.  It was so nice of you to point that out. 

Frankly, I'm not interested in pointless rhetoric over how long we should stay angry at Michael Vick.  If you're willing to forgive him his trespasses so easily, be my guest.  But to attempt to deconstruct a timeline on the phrase "simply rot" seems akin to Clinton trying to define the word "is".  I don't think it's absolutist to object to the tired method of trotting out the racism charge to innoculate any old thug from criticism.

As for Imus, my objection relates not to Al Sharpton, but to the handful of mostly NBC media liberals (see my previous post for some examples) who used Imus for years to promote themselves, engage in frat boy chatter and endure countless more offensive comments than the ones related to the Rutgers team.  But as soon as Sharpton started tuning his bullhorn, they pretended never to have met Imus.  And if you think that Al Sharpton is merely a fringe element without a proper seat at the head table of the Democrat Party, you are deluded.  Sure, the Democrats would love to wash their hands of this dubious character, but he delivers votes...so he's a necessary evil.  And presumably you were too busy watching Fox News Channel to notice that Sharpton did a guest host turn on MSNBC a couple of weeks ago.

As for who botched the Simpson case, it was a combination of Gil Garcetti and Lance Ito.  Garcetti's venue choice was politically motivated.  Period.  In the wake of the Rodney King verdicts, Garcetti was more interested in publicly projecting racial even-handedness than in prosecuting an individual murderer.  The media was too interested in Marcia Clark's hair and Johnnie Cochran's wardrobe to bother scrutinizing the shameful defense tactic of isolating Chris Darden as an "Uncle Tom".  Ito allowed the trial to become a jury nullification by permitting the infamous tape to be entered into evidence.  The F. Lee Bailey line of questioning should not have been allowed, as it was either a) without foundation and prejudicial or b) with foundation, meaning that the defense was withholding a key piece of discovery evidence from the prosecution.  Anyone who saw a Gloria Allred/Leo Tyrell split screen debate on television knows that the Democrats had a political hot potato to deal with regarding the Simpson trial.  They had to make sure that they appeared on the side of the feminists while also being in the corner of African Americans (when they were really only interested in the interests of the trial lawyers).  Oh, and nice try with the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell/Rush Limbaugh non-specific "incendiary comments" charge.  What page of the DNC talking points book did you pick that one from?  

         

You're quite welcome,

You're quite welcome, fitzfong, and please continue with your commentaries, cathartic or otherwise, and frequently, because they are eloquent and provocative.  Still, in this case, your "let him rot' rhetoric did seem somewhat extreme to me, so I suppose we'll just remain at odds over how "pointless" my objections may have been.  However, it's worth noting that you've now changed the context to "how long we should stay angry at Vick"--which I think is a more reasonable framing of the issue.  Frankly, I'll probably remain angry about Vick's behavior for a very long time.  But we've probably flogged this horse enough.  [Don't tell PETA I said that.]

Returning to Imus and Sharpton, I wonder if you include the "lefty douchebag's" characterizations of Hillary Clinton as "Satan" and the "devil" among the "countless offensive comments" uttered by Imus.  Should his frat boy buddies have condemned those remarks?  But you do make a valid point about his allies jumping ship instead of risking the probable backlash from speaking out on his behalf.  As for Sharpton, I reread my last post to make sure I never said he was only an insignificant "fringe" player; and I know I didn't "think it", so I'm relieved to learn I'm not "deluded".  What I did say was that he had moved toward the mainstream, but not enough to suit me and I believe most Democrats--and that's an opinion with which I remain comfortable.  I was unaware of his guest hosting gig on MSNBC [or his recent appearance with Glen Beck on CNN]--all of which serves as a wakeup call to me that I am watching way too much Fox News.  Don't know if it's verifiable--probably is--but I bet Sharpton's Fox News appearances exceed the number of same on the other networks combined.  [And I remain cynical about the reason.]

Again, there is very little we have to fight about over the Simpson trial--you're preaching to the choir.  The verdict, which was very predictable, nevertheless induced the same sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that I had experienced decades earlier when southern all-white juries would acquit murdering bigots via nullification.  I also believe any D.A.--Republican or Democrat--would have found the pressure to try the case other than in Brentwood to be irresistable.  They rolled the dice and lost.  And while I, too, questioned the foundational basis of Bailey's examination of Fuhrman, the fact remains that the prosecution and Fuhrman should have anticipated the looming calamity, and could have avoided the trap or at least limited the damage if they had been smart about it.  Believe me, I watched more of Allred and Tyrell than I could stomach, but I think the "potato" held by the Democrats was only lukewarm.  The fault line in the Simpson case traced a racial, not ideological, landscape.

Finally, exactly where is that DNC talking points book?....I could use a copy.  Unfortunately, the Dems aren't as well organized as the Repubs in many respects--including the disemination of partisan info. The GOP either has its talk radio mouthpieces come to the White House to personally receive their marching orders, or else fax talking points directly to the studios.  It's an impressive operation.  Alas, I must do my own research, or as in many cases, hear the statements at the time they are spoken.  For example, while driving through Alabama in the summer of 1998, the only station I could tune in was broadcasting Limbaugh unleashing this slander:  "Bill Clinton and Janet Reno deliberately incinerated innocent women and children at Waco, and liberals don't care, because liberals don't like religious people."  Not long after that remark, the Republicans made Rush an honorary member of Congress.  Cheney launched his 2000 campaign on his show.  After 9/11, Limbaugh began attacking the patriotism of a number of prominent Democrats, including Air Force veteran Tom Daschle, whom he referred to as "Taliban Tom".  Rush was later invited to sleepovers at the White House.  You're probably familiar with Falwell and Robertson, immediately after the Trade Towers attack, bantering with each other about it being the fault of homosexuals, feminists, the ACLU, etc. [although I believe Falwell did backtrack several days later after intense criticism].  A special mention should be made concerning a local right wing radio personality (whose show was streamed overseas to the military) who once lamented the fact that firing squads were't available to take care of Clinton; and on another occasion guffawed while agreeing with a caller's suggestion  that they should "commandeer a C-130, fly it over the White House and put an incendiary shell up that boy's [Clinton's] ass".  Are those examples of "incendiary comments" sufficient?  If not, I could go on....

I'll give you the last word if you want it.  In any event, I do  appreciate your comments.  You make excellent arguments, present them very intelligently, and provide me with lots to think about.

Later, Jer       

 

 

Jer, You'll have to

Jer,

You'll have to excuse me for not replying sooner.  I wasn't ducking your invitation to respond, I was out of town for the last few days.  I suppose there's really not much left to be said on the Vick issue, the legal system has more or less sorted his situation out.  Needless to say, I wouldn't trade places with him...it won't be easy serving jail time, losing a lucrative career and being thought of as a pariah.  But I wouldn't go as far as saying I have much sympathy for him.  His willful acts of cruelty caused his downfall.  He was a very talented football player and seemed destined for stardom.  It's too bad he couldn't have put his free time and money to better use.

On the Imus issue, my point was not to suggest that he should have been fired sooner for saying something even more offensive than what he got fired for saying.  I was simply noting that Imus had a roster of beltway insiders who chose this opportunity to turn their backs on him.  It seemed a rather self-serving and dubious opportunity for these people to abandon ship given some of the comments they actually tolerated.  In this era of political correctness, people are bending over backwards to take offense over the most insignificant comments.  Do I think Imus' beltway pals should have condemned his remarks about Hillary Clinton?  No.  And I don't think they should have condemned those remarks if he had directed them at Laura Bush, Nancy Reagan or Rush Limbaugh.  I believe that people should vote with their feet...if you don't like what you're hearing on the Don Imus program (and I certainly didn't), change the channel...there are literally hundreds of entertainment choices on the radio airwaves, no one has a gun to your head saying you must listen to the Don Imus program (and thank God for that).  If he got canned because his ratings were in the tank, fine.  But I suspect Sharpton threatened Imus' advertisers and the advertisers chose to cave in to Sharpton's shakedown tactics rather than deal with nuisance lawsuits and negative publicity.  You may disagree, but Al Sharpton is a hell of a lot more than a simple Fox News Channel straw man designed to publicly torpedo the liberal position on issues. 

With regard to the Simpson trial, I think we're pretty much on the same page...with a few minor interpretive disagreements.  I believe that Fuhrman told Marcia Clark about the tapes.  Then Clark, believing that the defense would never be able to get the tape in, proceeded to call Fuhrman to testify.  However, once Ito improperly allowed Bailey to get the irrelevant/inflammatory question and tape into evidence, Clark tripped over herself to sell out Fuhrman, pretending she'd been sandbagged.  If she really wanted to distance herself from one of the detectives, she should have chosen Phil Vanatter...after all, he was the guy who took blood evidence home with him. 

But Jer, I have to say you disappoint me when you play dumb about the DNC talking points.  I've read some of your posts, and I know you're a lot smarter than that.  If anyone is sneaky about disseminating talking points to willing mouthpieces in the media, it's the DNC.  Just look at the roster of "mainstream" media members.  How is it that so many party operatives have landed positions as "objective" journalists?  Holy Dan Rather, Batman, where do I start?  George Stephanopoulis and Andrew "son of Mario" Cuomo on ABC.  Chris Matthews was a speechwriter for Tip O'Neill and Jimmy Carter.  Tim Russert worked for Moynihan.  Maria Shriver, anyone?  Douglas Kennedy?  These are just a few examples of the many partisan Democrats who have taken up positions in the mainstream media.  Each one has parroted DNC talking points presented as objective news...and has done so with very little cynicism or scrutiny.  You hear it in news stories...isn't a little strange that dozens of mainstream news organizations used the same word (gravitas) to describe Dick Cheney's contribution to the 2000 Bush Campaign?  How about the endless descriptions by Democrats and the media of Sandy Berger (a treasonous crook) as merely "sloppy".  How long did it take for the DNC and the "mainstream" media to concoct the pathetic "botched joke" explanation for Kerry's willful disparaging of American troops?  And how long did it take Keith Olbermann to go off the rails when reasonable people didn't buy that lame excuse?

I don't remember Rush Limbaugh saying what you indicated he said about Waco or about the former Senate Majority Leader.  You seem like an honorable person, so I'll take your word for it.  While I agree with much of what Rush Limbaugh says, I speak for myself...and he speaks for himself.  We all have better things to do with our lives than to constantly wring our hands over what someone on our side of the aisle said about a particular issue.  I'm an individual, I speak for myself.  Rush Limbaugh speaks for himself.  Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell speak/spoke for themselves (and for the congregation members who permitted these men to speak for them).  I'm not going to apologize for what they may or may not have said.  Nor should I.  I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I suggested you should condemn something that Al Franken, Jesse Jackson, Bill Maher, Dick Durbin or Keith Olbermann said recently.  Surely they don't speak for you.  If you want to endorse it or condemn what they say on particular issues, that's your business.

Anyway, Jer.  I think we've reached some common ground.  We certainly won't agree on everything, but I appreciate the compliment you gave me.  I return the compliment to you.  You have a thoughtful and respectful way of getting your point across.  I may not like everything that you say, but you have the class and the decency to speak your piece directly and without ad hominem attack.  I'm looking forward to future clashes.     

If not now, when?

"From Don Imus to OJ Simpson, from William Jefferson to Michael Vick, the Democrat Party refuses to stand up to bullies from one of their special interest groups even if it means doing the right thing."

Well said. Brought to mind a quote from Emerson:

"We believe in ourselves as we do not believe in others. We permit all things to ourselves, and that which we call sin in others is experiment for us....For there is no crime to the intellect." 

If Vick is sincere he

If Vick is sincere he should be forgiven.  Pennance, go away, help save dogs.