Appearing on C-SPAN’s Washington Journal this morning, longtime CNN correspondent Charles Bierbauer, who’s now the senior contributing editor to SCHotline.com, a South Carolina political news site, equated a proposed fence to deter illegal immigration from Mexico with the Berlin Wall that prevented Germans from fleeing East Germany’s communist dictatorship during the Cold War.
Oddly, Bierbauer claimed that the Berlin Wall “didn’t work,” even though tens of thousands raced past the checkpoints to West Berlin the moment the East German dictatorship opened the gates. Referring to proposals to build a U.S.-Mexico fence, Bierbauer argued: “I’ve seen walls around other countries, most notably East Germany and East Berlin, and they didn’t work. In fact, they became symbols of oppression rather than anything positive.”
Obviously, the fence along the southern U.S. border would not be a “symbol of oppression” to imprison Americans, but the sort of border control employed by every other nation on the planet.
Bierbauer also argued that “fences are only so good — there are ways to get around fences, over, under and in other directions.” So it’s not 100% effective — big deal. Welfare checks aren’t 100% effective at lifting people out of poverty, government schools haven’t achieved a 100% literacy rate, etc. But liberals aren’t clamoring to shut down those programs because they can’t possibly achieve a 100% success rate.
Here’s the full exchange from Friday’s Washington Journal, which took place at about 8:07EST:
CALLER FROM DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA: I was wondering, you know, since John McCain has sort of got a re-birth on this illegal immigration thing and now he’s all for the fence, border fence, and he’s sort of heading up the illegal immigration thing now, I was wondering why he hasn’t made a move to get that $3.2 billion reinstated for the fence? And it seems like that would really help his cause. I’ll just wait for your comments. Thanks.CHARLES BIERBAUER: Well, we heard most, if not all of the candidates, if they all got a chance to weigh in on it last night, on the immigration question, substantially saying that the first job is to secure the borders with whatever means available. In some cases the suggestion is it’s building that fence from one end of the country to the other across the southern border. Fences are only so good — there are ways to get around fences, over, under and in other directions.
But the question then goes beyond that as to what you do about the illegal immigrants who are already in the country, an estimated 12 million. I think we made this point earlier, that that’s where the differences seem to be stronger. Whether it’s McCain, whether it’s Giuliani, whether it’s Huckabee, they all seem to be saying we need to secure the border in some fashion. It could be a fence, but it could be a virtual fence as well — Giuliani talks about other ways to secure it than simply building a fence, although he favors that as well.
It’s a substantial cost. It’s a mammoth project. I’ve seen walls around other countries, most notably East Germany and East Berlin, and they didn’t work. In fact, they became symbols of oppression rather than anything positive.
—Rich Noyes is Research Director at the Media Research Center.
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Hey Stupid
January 11, 2008 - 13:35 ET by Six String SpiffThe BErlin wall WAS in a Dictatorship. As far as I Know, the USA isn't under a Dictator. My goodness... Do liberals really think it's so bad? Makes my head hurt.
Also, Mr. Bierbauer IS
January 11, 2008 - 14:28 ET by motherbeltAlso, Mr. Bierbauer IS aware, isn't he that the Berlin Wall worked very well at its purpose of keeping people IN?
Was there a flood of people going over the wall to the West? I don't think so.
And it also worked well at keeping people out....because no one wanted to get in.....
This guy is an idiot... I
January 11, 2008 - 14:37 ET by BDThis guy is an idiot...
I spent a part of the 80's in West Berlin, monitoring the Russians across the wall.
I live eight miles from the the US/Mexico Border wall in Naco Arizona.
As a person who has great experience with both, I can tell you the difference is like that between night and day.
The Wall in Berlin was designed to prevent citizens from escaping a brutal regime into the freedom of the west. As such it had a great many lethal features designed to kill or maim those who attempted to cross it, and actually making an attempt would get you killed by AK-47 fire or extended periods in jail as a dissident.
The Wall in Naco Arizona was pricipally erected to protect the residents of Naco Arizona from the denizens from south of the wall in Naco Sonora who used to stage border raids in which homes on the US side were invaded at gunpoint.
These "Brothers" from the south used to leap over the barbed wire fence in order to perform home invasions and rob the residents of everything possible (money, TV's, radios, VCR's etc) prior to the Border Patrol responding.
When the Border Patrol would respond, often they were engaged as they drove up by Mexicans who would then simply step back over the line into Sonora as the BP deployed to confront them.
Since that wall has been erected, home invasions in Naco have disappeared.
The Berlin Wall kept the good people in, whereas the wall in Naco keeps the bad people OUT!
I can't help wonder if he
January 11, 2008 - 13:37 ET by kgI can't help wonder if he has a Berlin wall around his home property.
que?
January 11, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Free Thinkerque?
As it stands, the talking
January 11, 2008 - 13:39 ET by lotrAs it stands, the talking head has employed totally irrelevant analogy.
Sometimes...
January 11, 2008 - 13:43 ET by Prester John...the stupidity of people who are supposed to be so well informed and who make so much money is so breathtaking as to leave one speechless.
This is one of those times.
I missed this segment this
January 11, 2008 - 13:47 ET by bigtimerI missed this segment this morning and glad I did...just another leftist in the news...spouting off his leftist tripe.
These people are hoping against hope that this is not going to be a big if not the biggest piece of this country's voting block..this is the big issue, they keep choosing to ignore it, but it won't be ignored it will be brought up in the general election whether they like it or not...Fox or no Fox debates...it will come up...over and over again, which I am waiting for.
Btw as an aside (I apologize Rich Noyes))...another thing that was ignored last night was the use of a three letter word...oil...as in this country, being self dependent on our own oil. (McCain is one of the reasons we are not drilling in ANWR he voted against it, we needed one more vote and he had the audicity to bring up being self reliant and not giving $$$ to the terrorists, I hope someday someone brings this up if he gets much further, which I hope he doesn't)
What an idiot...
January 11, 2008 - 13:50 ET by orlandocajunAnyone with a double-digit IQ would know the difference between a wall that divided a country and wall that guards one. Mexico isn't a US State. That's the way liberals think though.
I would like our border fence to be a symbol of suppression. I would like to surpress the invasion of our southern borders.
Ah no one tried to break into the Berlin Wall
January 11, 2008 - 13:55 ET by Lame CherryIt is so disgusting when a clown like Bierbaur gets on and is ignorant of history. He can be refuted in one sentence.
The Berlin Wall and Warsaw Pac had a wall to KEEP PEOPLE IN and not a wall to keep people out.
No one ever broke into the Soviet Union, but were trying to flee that prison.
I personally do not agree in wasting money on walls as Patton showed walls do no good for security, no more than the Great Wall of China stopped invasion.
How one stops the Mexican and border buster invasion is simple. One stops robber baron businesses from hiring cheap labor as I exposed was a system of kickbacks to make double money on tax fraud and pocketed non paid wages..........one goes into northern Mexico and Americanizes those states with jobs to build things now we import from China..........and one sends in troops to shoot the Mexican mafia, Mexican soldiers who are constantly invading the United States. Dead soldiers protecting the illegal human traffic trade stops the border busters and sends a message of the head on a pike.
All of this illegal issue is designed at the heart to weaken sovereign nations so that they can be taken over.......and in the end the cartels will eliminate the border busters with lethal means.
Bierbaur is a liar or an ignorant as his point is fiction.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Wall
January 11, 2008 - 14:04 ET by CelumnazWall = more big government, more $$$ wasted. It's the same scenario of the Left paying a segment of society lip service to keep them voting for them. The wall won't work, your ideas would be much better.
"High Fences and Wide Gates" to me means NAU Superhighway.
The wall is an obstacle.
January 11, 2008 - 17:12 ET by BDThe wall is an obstacle. In the military they teach you that obstacles are key to defeating a mobile enemy but they vital part is that each obstacle "Must be watched by fire."
What this means is that if you dig a trench to prevent tanks from crossing an open area, it is only an obstacle long enough for the enemy to fill in the trench and cross (let us say five minutes). If however, you have a team of AT gunners to destroy the team filling in the ditch, you have an effective obstacle. If you do not, you have a five minute obstacle.
However, if that five minutes is long enough for the reaction, that is enough.
In other words, a wall is a fine idea and will defeat the illegals who are mobile, only IF it is adequately manned with personnel located with time to react to crossings.
If the entire border is not obstacled and adequately manned, then it will simply create what we call "an Ooobee doll" in which the illegals will bypass the obstacle and continue moving. (The "Ooobee" was a rubber doll sold at Spencers Gifts in the 1980's thats eye's, tongs, and ears popped out when it was squeezed. Obstacles on the border and tend to have the same effect.)
I like your ideas
January 11, 2008 - 15:46 ET by oregon_jiimI have argued all along that we should help Mexico more and China less. We don't need a physical wall (well some locations probably do)
Why do liberals favor raising the minimum wage, but they also want to keep the border open so illegals can work for less than minimum wage?
"an endorsement of communism is an endorsement of slavery"
Or we build a wall on the
January 11, 2008 - 15:51 ET by Conservative VoiceOr we build a wall on the southern border of Mexico, and anex Mexico ( ie take it over ) to limit the wall costs ( smaller border ).
Two things
January 11, 2008 - 14:03 ET by OldSailor881. The Berlin wall was made to keep people in.
2. The Berlin wall was very effective. People who tried to cross the wall illegally were shot.
Our solution should be to reverse the purpose of the wall in #1 and adopt the premise of #2 for our wall.
Faciem durum cacantis habes
I like #2 although all our
January 11, 2008 - 14:08 ET by jezebelleI like #2 although all our border agents will probably go to jail (thanks aclu)
Call it what you want as long as you build it!
I find that those people
January 11, 2008 - 14:11 ET by drillanwrI find that those people who insist on maligning the border wall have absolutely NO idea what to do about how to stop the illegal alien problem in this country ... except to just throw open the doors and let anyone and everyone in. NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world just allows free and open borders to non-citizens into their country. NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world does, regarding immigration, what the liberals in this country are saying we should do with our immigration. The United States is a prime target of every terrorist group and despicable thug in the world ... We have every right to protect our borders ANY WAY we see fit.
Finally, these people really need to read the Mexican Constitution, especially the parts regarding citizenship and immigration ... legal and otherwise. Just because you move there legally does not give you even half the rights Mexican born people have. You're not even allowed to vote in their elections ... and G-d help you if you are an ILLEGAL. Then, these social idiots can come back and debate open borders ...
We Dont Need No Edukashon..
January 11, 2008 - 14:20 ET by Jack BauerWe Dont Need No Edukashon...just another brick in the wall...
Hey, no problem just go to a liberal arts college and get manchurianed by their quasi-Marxist faculty.
No need to worry you'll learn anything about actual history, as opposed to made-up history from socialist frauds like Howie Zinn.
A point around this ignorant liberal comment, which I know others have touched upon.
Berlin was not a country. Only a city. And that's where the evil East German commies built their wall to seperate GERMANS.
They were all freakin' GERMANS artificially divided by the commies. They were NOT two countries, as in, oh let's pluck a random pair.
MEXICO and AMERICA.
Mabe the liberals just don't like the name
January 11, 2008 - 14:20 ET by c5thenMaybe they need a better title for it:
Like:
Human Entry Limitation Device – HELD
Or:
Functional Emigration Non-entry Control Equipment - FENCE
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
Using his logic, by
January 11, 2008 - 14:30 ET by JerryUsing his logic, by closing and locking your doors, you are oppressing thieves. Locked doors have failed to keep criminals out of people's homes in the past, so why bother locking your doors people? Wise up! Liberate yourselves from these symbols of oppression!
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
the door
January 11, 2008 - 15:33 ET by oregon_jiimthe door on my house has an entirely different purpose than the door on a jail cell.
"an endorsement of communism is an endorsement of slavery"
"The Lives of Others"
January 11, 2008 - 15:34 ET by Gary HallCharles Bierbauer deserves no comment - so I move onward.
I strongly recommend that all, who have not done so, rent and watch one of last years most powerful movies, "The Lives of Others." It is truly a great effort at showing how effective the Berlin Wall was, and and how horrible life behind the wall must have been.
And then, you can read the review, from the NY Times - well, it's predictably pathetic, because they just never go after Oliver Stone like this:
Here's wishing that Michael Moore had spent his entire life in Cuba - he might understand what "sicko" really meant.
I agree Gary - Lives of Other's is a great film
January 11, 2008 - 16:18 ET by Dee BunkIt's completely lost on liberals though. They don't see Cuba or Saddam era Iraq in the film. They only see wiretapping of Foreign terrorists in the U.S.
Bierbauer is a cretin
January 11, 2008 - 15:56 ET by IamTinmanAny fifth grader knows the difference between the Berlin wall and the US-Mexico border wall. One slows down the rate of exit, the other slows down the rate of entry.
Once the border is under control then a workable plan can be implemented to allow guest workers when required.
Throw a few employers in the slammer for hiring illegals and the problem will disappear along with the illegals. They are primarily here for the money and if it goes away, so do they.
Smarts
January 11, 2008 - 16:21 ET by ammo johnI guess you don't have to be intelligent to work for CNN.
This guy is a shill for the
January 11, 2008 - 16:51 ET by rbosqueThis guy is a shill for the left. Most people have more sense than comparing apples and oranges. Nothing but a drivs-by hit piece from the Marxists.
You people clearly haven't
January 11, 2008 - 17:16 ET by ckc1227You people clearly haven't been paying attention. Haven't you heard about the thousands of prisoners who escape prison daily, or the thousands of nuts who manage to break into the White House, simply because walls and fences don't work? Didn't you know that Gitmo was empty now because fences don't work?
Seriously, folks, where have you been? :)
Paying attention to crminals escaping prison daily
January 11, 2008 - 18:43 ET by Thomas Hollanderckc1227 hasn't been paying attention. Here in California the prisoners don't even have to scale the fence. We routinely open the gates and let them out to relieve overcrowding. Thousands of them each year.
When they say four walls can't hold them, they really understand the will of the people to punish criminals.
"ckc1227 hasn't been paying
January 11, 2008 - 22:22 ET by ckc1227"ckc1227 hasn't been paying attention. Here in California the prisoners
don't even have to scale the fence. We routinely open the gates and let
them out to relieve overcrowding. Thousands of them each year."
Thank you for proving my point. They have to open the gates for them to get out.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. California has the tools to keep criminals imprisoned. That they insist on opening the gates to freedom is on them.
The perfect solution...
January 11, 2008 - 22:33 ET by Clear thinkerI suggest we have only one gate on the wall/fence with our southern neighbors. And this gate opens right into the frontyard of this idiot. How soon until he see's the light? One, maybe two minutes!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
The man is a fool. The
January 14, 2008 - 10:37 ET by NL207The man is a fool.
The purpose of the Berlin Wall was to keep people, 'prisoners', IN. The purpose of a fence on the US-Mexico broder is to keep foreigners, 'invaders', OUT.