"Talk about too big to fail," said managing editor of Time Richard Stengel on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" Dec. 4, who was on the program promoting the latest cover story for the magazine entitled, "The Case for Saving Detroit." Stengel:
"I find the fact that so many Americans are unsympathetic to Detroit to be kind of amazing," Stengel said:
We make the case that in fact the, you know, the Big Three have adapted in a lot of ways ... They haven't managed things well, they have too much capacity, but I mean, talk about being too big to fail in a way, right?
The fact is Americans don't understand what collateralized debt obligations are, yet they sort of said, ‘Okay, let's bailout all of these banks and AIG' and yet people feel like, ‘Hmm what about the big car manufacturers?
As Stengel talked a screenshot of a CNN/Opinion Research poll showed 61 percent of American oppose a bailout of the automotive industry and 36 percent favor a rescue.
Mika Brzezinski countered:
Can we just keep it real though for a second though? They make great cars? They're not on the top ten best cars. I mean, maybe there's one. And this Chevy Volt is not ready till 2010 and it's $40,000. We still do no have innovation at its best here.
—Paul Detrick is a research analyst at the Business & Media Institute.
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Much the same was said of the Titanic
December 4, 2008 - 16:42 ET by Jack ColemanToo big to sink
oops
December 4, 2008 - 16:47 ET by mattmoops
After they've taken all our
December 4, 2008 - 16:46 ET by mattmAfter they've taken all our tax money to bail out the ACORN banks and the AFL-CIO Auto makers and every other "too big to fail" business in the country and we piss ant citizens are all broke - who's going to bail us out?
Chapter 11 is their friend
December 4, 2008 - 16:48 ET by UnsaneI love my American-manufactured truck, made in MI. The Chrysler Corporation in particular continues to churn out great products.
That being said, let them fail. Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize. That will probably the best way for them to get back on the path of serious profitability.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
ARG!
December 4, 2008 - 16:52 ET by katainkentwhy do people keep repeating this :
The fact is Americans don't understand what collateralized debt obligations are, yet they sort of said, ‘Okay, let's bailout all of these banks and AIG'
no... no we DIDNT. Congress did. I don't recall ANYONE dialing me up that day and asking me how I felt about it.
"If you think you're finished shopping for Christmas, why not start on next year"
I agree
December 4, 2008 - 17:02 ET by general companyIt is rediculiouse for them to assume this is different, when nobody wants either of these.
I also agree about the The Chrysler Corporation, I own 3 and am thinking about the new Challenger
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Too big to fail? You mean
December 4, 2008 - 16:57 ET by NL207Too big to fail? You mean like the Brachiasaurus? Wait a minute! Isn't that extinct?
People Who Need People
December 4, 2008 - 16:58 ET by Johan[[People said ‘Okay, let's bailout all of these banks and AIG' ]]
People said that? Congress said that, not The People. My Rep, a Republican, voted against it before she voted for it. I didn't vote for her for the last election and let her know this was why. She said the initial bailout bill at $700 billion or so was "Too big". But for some reason it wasn't "Too big." when she voted on the second bill that exceeded $800 billion. Insanity!
Same thing is happening now with the auto-execs. They showed up a couple of weeks ago asking for $25 billion, and they were thrown out of town. Now they roll (literally) back into town, and now they want $35 billion!
Congress might as well pass out the money the first time these beggers show up, because anytime they wait for a second go around, it costs the taxpayers more money!
Not too big to fail but
December 4, 2008 - 17:20 ET by EdhenryNot too big to fail but "too important to fail". Auto ind was on way to success before the gubment induced housing/financial crisis. The best part of this "loan" (no bailout) is that is accellerates the restructuring of the labor/legacy costs of the big 3. Costs will then be in line.
I now buy american, as they make competitive products. (and I have a had Merc, BMWs, Porsche).
They will get money, which on a cost comparitive basis against unemployment, pension bail-out and loss in GDP is not even a close call. It is cheap money.
It is just ironic that that the Dems have to give $$ to an industry they hate (actually they dislike every industry) because the obvious union political connection. Hence, Sen Levin riding with GM chief Waggoner this am. So the press has cognitive dissonance. They get to support a communist organization, but have to give money to company.
Buy American - Buy BMW
December 4, 2008 - 19:07 ET by JohanI have a Beamer too! Guess where it was made. South Carolina. Want a Mercedes? You can buy one off a car dealers lot, or go to Alabama and get one when it rolls off the assembly line. With a Porsche, you'll still need to go to Germany to pick one up fresh off the line. But the fun part of that is you get to drive it to London where they'll ship it to you to pick up in NY!
The point of this is that car making is globalized now. They (other countries) make their cars here, we (the US) make our cars there. Kind of blurs the line on whats "theirs" and whats "ours". Bottom line, if GM, Ford and Chrysler can't compete, then they will not be around much longer. Also, any $35 billion loan to them would be eaten up in months - they're collective burn rate for the Big 3 lately is -$5 billon a month. In others words $35 billion is the down payment. The real cost would be something like $350 billion to turn these dinosaus around. With that money they would have to reform their cost structure, pension funding, AND would have to come with some very HOT car models (think Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and not Hummers) that would sell many, many units not just here, but around the world. That is a tough road.
Which is why
December 4, 2008 - 19:27 ET by ahusserI always get a little torqued at the buy American crowd. I have a KIA, HYUNDAI and a Yamaha motorcycle. Quality and price is how I buy. Everyone employed at the dealerships and I mean everyone are Americans not a Korean or Japanese guy to be found. Earning their livelihoods just like the Ford and Harley guys.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
Who wanted to bail out AIG?
December 4, 2008 - 17:12 ET by Smoking HotNobody I know. Where does he come up with this ridiculous generalizations? Americans don't have to understand collateralized debt obligations to identify a waste of tax dollars.
I can't think of anyone I know who wants to bail out the Big Three either.
I agree with Romney and Bill Gates...
December 4, 2008 - 17:40 ET by krendlerMgt and the UAW idiots have been running the U.S. automotive industry into the ground for DECADES. Now they want $32 billion from their sugar daddy (us) so they can flounder for another few years.
And I just love the "we're too IMPORTANT to fail" attitude, along with "If we fail, we're taking the rest of you with us" (into a depression).
A-holes. They've had decades to get their $h*t together. Screw 'em, and screw Carl Levin. Let capitalizm work. Managed bankrupcy for the big 3 and flush the cancerous, greedy UAW and greedy (and incompetent) management out of the system once and for all.
take out
December 4, 2008 - 19:13 ET by RowaneTake the UAW out of the equation and the problem solves itself. Outrageous that they can act as iof they own the companies and the people that work there but they can't try and help the companioes survive.
NO the banks shouldn't have been handed blank checks, like they were, but neither should the auto companies. This kind of crap could spell world-wide depression.
Unions drain life of industries
December 5, 2008 - 07:36 ET by nkviking75Isn't it interesting how many industries which are in deep, deep trouble have a very strong union presence? That includes public schools which mainly survive precisely because they are government entities. Whatever value unions once had, most have outlived their usefulness.
Welcome to the era of unity, you racist!
The only Time communism looks good is on paper ...
December 4, 2008 - 19:04 ET by Crash... Toilet Paper!
"We" didn't "all" say, "bail out these banks." Though we are all taking lumps like we had.
Meanwhile: China's navy heads off to fight pirates near the Persian Gulf as Russian warships steam through the Panama Canal.
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." Hilmar von Campe
Crash... Exactly! Btw...
December 4, 2008 - 19:12 ET by bigtimerCrash...
Exactly!
Btw...excellent points you made there regarding China and Russia...nobody seems to be paying much attention.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
All the arguments against
December 4, 2008 - 20:22 ET by EdhenryAll the arguments against the big 3, mngt and really the union are valid. They have been mismanaged since WWII (1943 to be exact). Force a reog, beat the UAW into irrelevance, take preferred shares, keep the jobs and infrastructure. They will be soon bought, either taken private or merged into other companies.
But the cost of bankruptcy will exceed this bailout $$.
I like the repubs jamming the libs and making the UAW sweat. The longer this goes, the more concessions, which is a good thing.
Bottom line
December 4, 2008 - 21:43 ET by UnsaneBottom line:
1) The UAW needs to be busted.
2) Management should be rightly punished for signing idiotic contracts like those with the UAW.
3) Government needs to get the hell out of the way and let the Big 3 build what they wish. They have a very good sense of what to build. They sell cars in Europe that are a hit but cannot be sold here due to government regulations.
"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!! A WAR ON FREEWILL IS COMING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)
The people don't
December 4, 2008 - 21:43 ET by cocodriewant to bail out anything, especially the boat the left-wing extremist democrats and their union accomplices find themselves in.
The airlines went bankrupt and survived, the auto makers will do the same. If we give them money it will only postpone the inevitable.
My Ranger was $20,000 ten years ago.
December 5, 2008 - 00:14 ET by JWFReplacing it with a new one - still in the 20's.
I have 4WD with the off road package. Never missed a day of work due to snow in Illinois. Yea, I might be an hour late because I drove 25 MPH all the way but never stopped me from getting to work.
I could not get out of driveway with a dinky little car 4WD or not.
Also, we keep hearing about the great gas mileage of the volt. But no one ever talks about the overall energy costs of these electric vehicles. Electricity ain't free yet. You transfer the money you pay at the pump onto your household electric bill. Are you saving more? We don't know because no one will mention that.
I get paid by the hour, I don't show up at work, I don't get paid. Will the Volt poop money when it snows and has to stay in my garage?
Oh, and please spare me the platitudes about living close to work. I live in a small town and have to drive to the big liberaltown aka crimetown aka hippieland to find a concentration of jobs. If I have to live in liberaltown, I would end up shooting a hippie in the head. Don't have to worry about gas money in jail now do we?
I get to be in the christmas parade in my small town this year. They are putting the American Legion guys up front. Tell me I get that pleasure in crimetown.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
uff da
December 5, 2008 - 07:04 ET by MOONSTRUCKI have owned several vehicles. In my youth, I purchased a Honda. It was a wonderful little car. As I grew up I believed that my money should go to American cars. I am a ford person. I now have a 2000 Explorer with 120,000 miles on it. I LOVE my Explorer. Gets me to and from work during the snowy winter months. That being said, when the day comes for a new vehicle, I may have to give very serious thought to a non-big 3. Why should they get a bail out? I do not want to pay some big fat cat exec. or union thug to get richer. Their bloated prices are out of control.
Global warming update. 5 above this morning!!
Much too cold for a pansy a$$ like franken to live in!! ;o)
What About Small Business?
December 5, 2008 - 16:58 ET by deerjerkydaveSmall businesses get screwed every year. Small businesses account for the vast majority of employment in this country and the Big businesses get bailed out by LIBERALS no less.
Let's cut through the BS, these liberal politicians are only interested in a big government takeover. Saving jobs is only how they sell it.
Let the free market correct itself. Progress can be painful, but the end result is a better tomorrow for EVERYBODY and not just the few who have guaranteed jobs thanks to big government intervention. Government takeovers are the antithesis of progress. Just look at Cuba, they're stuck in the 1950s.
Dreams Can Come True
December 5, 2008 - 20:46 ET by melpolThe first dream of every guy is the availability of a quality 20 dollar hooker. The second dream is buying a new quality six cylinder 4 door car for under 4000 bucks. Thanks to the free enterprise system they are both possible. The elimination of international laws against prostitution and allowing global competition in the auto industry will make both those dreams come true. China if given the green light by the U.S. government will produce both the low cost car and hooker for the American public. Unfortunately this dream will remain only a fantasy due to an antiquated system that refuses to change.
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