Just give us the money and nobody gets hurt.
That was the warning from the mayor of Lansing, Mich., on CBS's "The Early Show" Dec. 2. "You know this is a sure prescription to go from recession to depression if you allow this auto industry, our manufacturing prowess, to fall by the wayside," Virg Bernero warned:
This industry is too important, not just to Lansing, Mich., but to the whole country. This is our manufacturing base. You know we were the arsenal of democracy. We've talked a lot about economic security, and that's number one, but what about national security? You know, we were the arsenal of democracy in World War II; it was the auto industry that helped turn us around. Can you imagine a country, I would ask, can you imagine America losing our manufacturing edge, not having that manufacturing prowess? That hurts our national security.
Bernero compared the possible auto bailout to the previous Chrysler bailout.
Look at the Chrysler aid package 30 years ago. That was a good investment for taxpayers. It was paid off early and in full and I believe this will be a prudent investment.
Bernero sparred with Fox Business Network's Neil Cavuto over the issue Nov. 16, arguing that not bailing out the auto industry was a "prescription for going from a recession to a depression."
Here is where your rigid capitalist ideology tumbles, because you are forcing our American auto companies to compete in non-capitalist, in a non-free market economy ... Our companies are competing against countries, they're not competing against other auto companies because they would be winning. The fact of the matter is Hyundai, and Toyota and Honda and those companies; they have immense support from their governments. But you and others like you in America, you want that line of demarcation between government and companies and that would be great if it were true in all the other countries.
Bernero continued to take shots at Cavuto:
I'm not here to tell you that the American auto companies didn't make mistakes. But those other auto companies made mistakes too. The difference is their governments are there subsidizing them, supporting them, providing healthcare, manipulating their currencies, and what we have here is pundits like you pulling the rug out from underneath them and kicking them in the shins.
—Paul Detrick is a research analyst at the Business & Media Institute.
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Finally I get it
December 2, 2008 - 15:21 ET by Spinningplates2It's like Prozac for mental depression. But for economic depression you prescribe Bailouts. Then you have Neil Cavoto kick them in the shins. Is everything alright now?
But on a serious note, you have to pay Union wages to get people to live in cities like Detroit. Most people will take half the money and live in a great non-union area of the country. But now the gravy train is out of steam and those Union workers have forgotten how to really work for a living.
→ Spinningplates
December 2, 2008 - 15:30 ET by Cool ArrowCavuto has been known to kick a little higher than the shins.
He's my candidate for a profile in courage.
Okay, now you're getting personal!
December 2, 2008 - 16:12 ET by 5kidsnadogJust have to say, that contrary to popular belief, southeastern Michigan is not JUST Detroit. There are plenty of nice areas to live (but they're mostly outside of Detroit). My husband and I actually tried living in other areas of the country, but CHOSE to come back here to raise our family.
There are more golf courses and boats here than any other state, the Great Lakes are a beautiful asset, and yet the reputation of Detroit overshadows everything else here. I also personally love having four seasons, adore the great lakes, and enjoy the beauty of the acres and acres of forested land. But that's probably because I'm also personally against hurricanes, tsunami's, earth quakes, yearly devastating forest fires, and most (if not all) tornadoes. It's kind of a to each his own thing...
As for the bailout, I do think that people tend to underestimate the impact that losing our big 3 would cause. It's not just the manufacturing jobs that would be lost, but all of the jobs related to the industry -- many, many people are employed by suppliers, and the ripple effect outward would be enormous.
That said, I don't think they should be given the "loans" unless there is significant progress made with getting the unions under control. The companies are being strangled not just by the hourly pay, but by the benefits and work rules which make it impossible to do business in any kind of efficient manner.
Actually . . .
December 2, 2008 - 17:08 ET by bioteachedNot trying to start a fight, but Florida has more golf courses than any other state according to the Wall Street Journal in 2005. Florida had 1218 and Michigan came in third with 851. Of course, the numbers could have change in the past three years, but I don't imagine that there was a 367 net change (combination of Florida closing courses and Michigan opening new courses). http://online.wsj.com/documents/info-golf0504.html
With that being said, I agree with your statement that people underestimate the impact of losing the Big 3. To add to your list of impacts, please consider that the Federal Government would also be responsible for picking up the tab of the retirement for the employees should they fail. It is the same thing they have done in the past, so I would guess things to be similar in this situation. I guarantee it would exceed $25-50 billion in costs in the long run!
Bail out
December 2, 2008 - 15:36 ET by rick007This is the problem with the U.S. nowadays.
It's not what the majority wants it's what the polititions say we need.
They were elected to do our bidding. It just so happens now they do as they damn well please and screw the people.
What makes these people so informed??? They are just lazy smuchuks that live of the peoples tax monies. Or what they can steal.
why is the solution
December 2, 2008 - 15:43 ET by katainkentwhy is the solution always 'throw more money at it'. Is this really the only solution?
"If you think you're finished shopping for Christmas, why not start on next year"
Read my lips
December 2, 2008 - 15:47 ET by SQL_SamKISS MY ASS YOU FRIGGEN MAFIA UNION BASTARDS AND GET OUT OF MY POCKETS.
okay I'm off my soap box, but I'm just getting piiiiiiised.
You mean "the alleged
December 2, 2008 - 16:08 ET by mattmYou mean "the alleged mafia," right?
Seriously though these "rigid" marxists and their bogus argument about competing against other countries could only fool idiots.
The reason the foreign companies perform better is because they don't have to pay union wages and benefits (including paying people for NOT working).
Unfortunately the American Auto companies don't have the stones to stand up to the politicians and the unions... (who are the real beneficiaries of the bailout)
It's bad to want a line of
December 2, 2008 - 15:48 ET by SickofLibsIt's bad to want a line of demarcation between government and companies? So this guy is a socialist. What a surprise.
In case you haven't noticed, Mr. Mayor, The Big Three have been getting kicked in the shins for decades... by the UAW.
And on Chrysler: a fabulously successful bailout back then, paid off early, blah, blah. If anyone expects that to happen again, they are seriously delusional. It cannot happen without major concessions from the UAW, and they already said shove it. We'd be lucky to see any of the principal, forget about interest.
The car companies have been
December 2, 2008 - 16:13 ET by JohnCThe car companies have been regulated by government for years. From CAFE standards to "bumper height", from seat belts to emission laws. They've had the crap beat out of them by the UAW and other unions, by lawyers in law suits, by states with gas taxes. By the way they make EXACTLY the cars Americans want to buy. Which do you see more of on the road Pirus' or SUV's, Cadillacs or Smarts? The gov. knows no real American wants to go up the road with his car going "buzzzz". We want Zoom Zoom Zoom as Mazda puts it. That's why they had to offer a $7500 rebate to consumers who would buy a lousy Volt. The gov't and unions and lawyers have destroyed many traditional American industries. Look at textiles, steel, electronics. A bailout only prolongs the agony. I say the feds offer 5 grand to every American who buys a new American car (up to a 25 Bil. limit) This way the big Three sell cars, dealers, salesmen etc. keep jobs. Feed the money in through the taxpayer not the thieves who started the problem. They want 25 Bil, they gotta earn it.
John, I like your 5G idea.
December 2, 2008 - 16:32 ET by SickofLibsJohn, I like your 5G idea. At least then we would know it would be going towards an actual vehicle!
not a bad idea
December 2, 2008 - 16:49 ET by bubbatech01but i am not going to buy another american car (i have bought three) until the union contracts are voided. i have heard over the past couple of weeks how pathetic auto workers are. they cannot compete in the marketplace so they create these unions to use the power of the government to keep their jobs. in my mind, a union worker is not one that fears his employer. No, a union worker is one that fears their own inadequacies.
before i will even think about supporting any bailout of detroit, the unions have to make concessions. i will not support giving money to people NOT TO WORK!!!
Sorry to all about my original post. It had a lewd word in it. I am sorry if I offended anyone. My anger and frustration got the best of me.
→ Great Idea JohnC
December 2, 2008 - 16:43 ET by Cool ArrowIt would temporararily bring down the cost of a used Toyota 4-Runner I'd be interested in buying.
So while everybody else is surrendering that $5,000 the minute their vehicle rolls off the showroom floor, I get a great deal on something that's already a great deal.
Exactly!
December 2, 2008 - 16:42 ET by PamI live in the SW Michigan area, and I don't recall this mayor or any other mayor getting national attention when our furniture manufacturing left the state and in most instances, the country..Each state has a story to tell about manufaturing leaving, and each state has survived. These 3 automakers and the UAW, put 1000's of people out of work. Just this past spring, American Axel went on strike and 1000's lost their jobs..where was the concern for them?
Bail Out
December 2, 2008 - 18:12 ET by rick007How the hell does Congress expect to know if the Auto Companys are viable or not.
This is a group of incompentent bafoons sucking on the tax payers pockets.
Pelosi is a great example of incompentence along with Stinky H Reid. Does he smell Barnys butt? B Frank has to wear depends.
All these two are capable of is cleaning port a lets if they are watched constantly.
unemployment
December 2, 2008 - 18:14 ET by rick007Let the Auto workers go pick tomatoes and lettice. This takes care of two problems.
Unions
December 2, 2008 - 18:24 ET by rick007Remember Eastern Airlines?????
→ Unions
December 2, 2008 - 18:37 ET by Cool ArrowRemember PATCO ???
We miss you President Reagan.
Here we go
December 2, 2008 - 18:41 ET by rick007If the U.S. goverment gets involved a car made in Detroit will cost over $50,000 for a 4 passenger 3 cylinder Ugo type car.