CNN Correspondent Links Rising Food Costs to Ethanol

Photo of Paul Detrick.
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You're going to need a few extra bucks to pay for those corn flakes every morning.

CNN's senior business correspondent Ali Velshi let viewers in on an underreported fact about rising commodities prices: the government mandate for ethanol production is making corn and other agricultural products more expensive-making inflation a top priority for Americans.

"Several years ago, we made some decisions about how corn is going to be used to make ethanol, which is added to our gasoline," said Velshi on "American Morning" April 4. "A number of people think that that was meant to reduce our dependency on crude oil. What is does is it takes what is fundamentally a food source and makes it into a gasoline source. That's caused corn to go up."

He went on to explain that in the recent food commodities surge, which includes products like wheat, soybeans and rice, corn has gone up to $6 a bushel-making everything from animal feed to cereal more expensive.

Anchor Alina Cho pointed out that high fructose corn syrup also sends the price of soda up and Velshi pointed out that the price surge would also affect other products like dairy, chicken and beef.

Finally some in the media are reporting the connection between federal mandates and food inflation. The April 7 issue of Time magazine slammed mandates for contributing to increases in global crop prices and devastating the environment. Reporter Michael Grunwald said rising prices are "spurring a dramatic expansion of Brazilian agriculture, which is invading the Amazon (rainforest) at an increasingly alarming rate."

—Paul Detrick is a research analyst at the Business & Media Institute.


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Truth at last! Truth at Last! God Almighty, Truth At Last!

Sorry for paraphrasing ML King, but my goodness.  Finally someone in the liberal MSM is putting out the truth about bio-fuels and the Law of Unintended Consequences.  It is too bad that no has included a story on the decreasing amounts of food stuffs the USA has shipped overseas as result of the increased use of our grains in bio-fuels.

The only thing that would be more shocking is for someone at CNN to print out the fact that we have enough oil available here in the USA to make up for what we bring in from the Middle East and enough coal to take care of our electrical needs for the foreseeable future. 

Corn...Food...Oil...Fuel...Get a clue!

Dear God (and mother nature),

On behalf of a vast number of my fellow humans I want to apologize for the unfathomable ignorance of a significant number of of our species. Yes Father, you did create us with the capacity for good reason, yet it appears once again we prefer ignorance over the obvious. Corn = Food....Oil = Fuel. Our prayer to you Father is that some pleasant Geometry teacher will introduce this theorem and eventually it will become a part of the common social intelligence of our culture. Oh wait, that already happened even before the Geomotry consideration so it appears the obvious is to be denied in this day and age. Well, Lord help us in spite of ourselves and thank you that someone in the MsM is willing to report this to the sheep. Next please!

Shut up and blog! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.

I am astonished it took

I am astonished it took this long for CNN to get a handle on the obvious.  If we continue to be foolish enough to take bread off of our table and do something as capricious as make gasoline, we pretty much deserve anything that comes our way.

This just lines the pockets of huge corn growers in the midwest that have powerful senators in their states. Ethanol has not been proved to be good for our motors in the long run because you can not get all of the water out of it when it is being made. It's not as "green" as they would have you believe. It takes 1500 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethanol. It takes several more gallons of hydrocarbons in the form of -tractors to till, disc, and plant the corn than it takes to make one gallon of ethanol. Not to mention the fertilizer they use on the corn, which is made from hydrocarbons.

And then, here's the kicker, the government subsidizes ethanol production to the tune of $1,05 to $1.38 per gallon. Ethanol can not make it on it's own two feet without Gov subsidization. It needs to go as a gasoline additive.

I'm astonished, too!

Astonished that CNN would actually let this "dirty little secret" see the light of day!

I would have expected this report (if even allowed to be MADE) to end up on the cutting-room floor.

Been reported - just not headlines on the front page

March 30 2007 The great corn gold rush

Problem is, what's good for farmers - and even better for the companies selling them tractors, seeds, and fertilizer - has started to roil other parts of the economy. The feed costs of cattlemen and hog farmers have skyrocketed. Ethanol producers have seen their profits slashed. Food companies are being squeezed and are starting to pass along higher costs to consumers.

 

June 19 2007 " The boom in prices for corn, milk, beef and other food products is only getting louder.

While
it's old news that corn prices have nearly doubled over the last two
years - think ethanol - now experts say corn could move sharply higher
still
, pushing prices up further for milk, beef, pork and a host of
other commodities."

 

Dec 7 2007  Ethanol bill fuels food costs

"If a recently passed House bill mandating a 7-fold increase in biofuels becomes law, there's little doubt food prices will rise. "

 

 

HEY HEY!!!

Somebody finally gets it. I just wonder how long it will take for the American people to really force those pimping Ethanol back. The best way to fight Ethanol is to reject it when there is a choice, & to reject politicians who are too damn stupid to understand that putting our food into our gastanks is economic suicide.

 

"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise"  Mark Levin

mantra to the rescue

Just call it "Big Ethanol" over and over again, and libs will learn to hate it. Make up some fact that Cheney owns corn fields, that should do it.

 

 

"Cheney owns cornfields...Cheney owns...

 

Cheney owns cornfields....Cheney owns cornfields....Cheney owns cornfields....Cheney owns cornfields....Cheney owns cornfileds....Cheney owns cornfields....Cheney owns cornfields...absolutely ingenious. Maybe even a bumper sticker, "Cheney owns cornfields...boycott ethanol" the libs and tree huggers would eat that crap up!!

Next Please! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal.

That's "boycott BIG

That's "boycott BIG ethanol," GAT.

;^)

BIG CORN...

Glenn Beck was calling it "Big Corn" about a year & a half ago. He was talking about about "Big Milk" a few days ago as well. He'll need to add "Big Meat" in time, everything in the meat & dairy departments in your grocery store will go up in price because of Ethanol. I see this because I work in the grocery industry.

 

"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise"  Mark Levin

Don't give them any ideas or

Don't give them any ideas or we'll be taxed for corn, and farmers will be fined for growing too much of it.

Mica...you are spot on!

Mica...you are spot on! lol..Very good point!

Why do you oppose President Bush?

Dany,

I didn't take you for an environmentalist. You're just bashing Bush.

Your quote March 5, 2008 -

"The best way to fight Ethanol is to reject it when there is a choice,
& to reject politicians who are too damn stupid to understand that
putting our food into our gastanks is economic suicide."

Bush quoted-

WASHINGTON (CNNMoney.com) -- President Bush said the United States
should "get off oil" Wednesday as crude prices hit record highs and
renewed his support for ethanol use despite concerns the corn-based
fuel is driving up food prices and isn't more environmentally friendly
than gasoline.

Nice to see you rejecting, Bush.

Syrius

That's what wrong with you libs, Syrius

You paint us all with the same broad brush.

You liberals think we conservatives support George Bush in every thing that he does.  That of course, is just plain stupid (surprise!) on your part.

But keep it up, it's amusing to see your (& Leon's) liberal leaps of illogic posted here continually.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I'm so glad to see you buddying up...

Blonde,

...with Fidel.

"In a series of editorials in state-run newspapers, Castro has railed
against a U.S.-backed plan to produce ethanol from corn for cars,
claiming it will cause prices of farm products of all kinds to spike
and make food too expensive for poor families around the globe."

Here's the link-

http://www.iht.com/a...

Viva La Revolution?

Syrius

 

More liberal leaps of illogic

Wow, I'm stunned.

That's just devastating.  Not.

Sheesh, we seriously need a better class of troll, here. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

LOL, Blonde

Damn, I must have misplaced my playbook. So, Bush likes ethanol, and Fidel is against it? Oh, goody, I have two GREAT reasons to be all for it then, right? Facts, schmacts.

Awaiting further marching orders. Standing by.

This is too hilarious. The idea of (occasionally) disagreeing with one's "good guys" or (again, occasionally) agreeing with one's "bad guys" is apparently beyond the ken of some.

"Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while." - my Dad

Yeah, I Joe

And the kith would kill them.

Seriously, these trolls are too freaking hillarious.

As you know, I live in South Florida...I've been waiting, with great ANTICI.....PATION for the huge news that Fidel este muerte....I don't hablez too much Spanish...but enough to have a hot time in Miami when it finally comes to pass.  LOL!

The troll, though, equating my POV with Fidel's is like Bufo Toad's liberal leaping of froggy logic. 

Inane and insane. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Getting off oil is a Myth

For Now, Gasoline Is Our Only Cheap Fuel (Cato Institute)
Myths About Breaking Our Foreign Oil Habit (The Washington Post)

Study: Ethanol Won't Solve Energy Problems (USA Today)

"Ethanol is far from a cure-all for the nation's energy problems. It's not as environmentally friendly as some supporters claim and would supply only 12 percent of U.S. motoring fuel even if every acre of corn were used."

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

PT

Not to mention all of the things made from petroleum. This is just a partial list (144 out of 6000).

Sy

Uh, we would be rejecting Hillary on this as well.

"Several months earlier, Mrs. Clinton had sponsored legislation to
provide billions in new federal incentives for ethanol, and, especially
in her home state of New York, she has worked to foster a business
climate that favors the sort of ethanol investments pursued by her
husband’s friends and her political supporters."

And of course, rejecting BJ is always a bonus. Looks like he stands to gain a buck or two out of this. Imagine that.

Oh, and by the way, stuff this bitch.

Edit: link above doesn't seem to be working so here is the copy and paste:

"‘Giving’ (and Also Getting)
Bill Clinton says invest in ethanol, and he might make money if you do.

(Photo: Brian Ach/WireImage)

In his new book Giving: How Each of Us Can Change the World, Bill Clinton
recommends investing in renewable-energy sources like ethanol. “There
are enormous opportunities for businesses to increase profits,” he
writes. And he should know, because he works as a senior adviser to a
fund that invests in renewable energy for the Yucaipa Companies (run by
Clinton’s other billionaire buddy, Ron Burkle), a
private-equity group; so long as the fund does well, he’s given a cut
of the profits. Last year, Clinton also announced the creation of a
green-friendly (and Yucaipa-friendly) investment fund that would pump
over $1 billion into the renewable-energy industry. His book praises Sir Richard Branson
for investing in U.S. ethanol plants, like “one in California designed
to operate cheaper and greener than standard corn-based plants,” a
reference to Cilion—where Yucaipa also happens to be a major investor.
Clinton spokesman Jay Carson says that while the
ex-president does advise Yucaipa on renewable-energy investments, he
didn’t help raise capital or drum up investors for Cilion. Carson also
says the former president didn’t need to disclose the fact that he
works for Yucaipa in Giving because it’s been disclosed in federal records and reported in news accounts. “It’s certainly not a secret,” he says."

And the url:

http://nymag.com/new...

Anger, anger...

RestUp,

Your quote...

"Oh, and by the way, stuff this bitch."

My, my, if lil'old me were to use the same foul attack I would have been banned, BIG TIME!

Restless, since you are one of the pure and true believers of the radical right wing authoritarian agenda- you won't even get a reprimand, just a pat on the back by the rest of your flock for what you said. Nice way to end a discussion.

Oh, by the way, as part of your education in matters concerning our Commander-in-Chief... President Bush is the leader of the free world and the ultimate decider on what is supported as a way to "get off oil". It doesn't really matter if Bill, Hill, McCain, or Obama has anything to say nor does it matter what anyone, namely the citizens of this great country, believes. You're either with him or against him and that's it. Unless you want to side with the terrorists and the communists...Again, I ask you, Viva La Revolution?

Syrius

 

 

You started the wordplay, I

You started the wordplay, I just finished it.

Unlike liberal lemmings like yourself, I don't follow lockstep to anybody. President Bush has done things domestically I don't agree with, and that are not in keeping with Conservative principles. Govt. subsidies are 99 times out of 100 a bad thing, especially when those subsidies go to industries that in no way are good for the country.

I don't like his policy on the border. I didn't like his nomination of Harriet Miers. I did like Muguel Estrada, but libs in Congress just couldn't stand the fact that he didn't need them to become successful. They couldn't even stomach him as a Circuit Judge.

Bush's fight of the WOT is what I support. Domestically and fiscally he has always been a little left of center, but he is better than those he ran against in 2000 and 2004.

Oh, and dummy, it is "you are either with us, or you're with the terrorists" regarding the WOT. US, as in U.S. You should at least try to love your country.

 

 

Hail, Caesar!

RestUp,

True believers in a radical right authoritarian agenda are impatient, to the point of intolerance, with the half-hearted and the half-committed of your agenda. He who is not with us is against us. That is the way you are now. The true believers become smug with their doctrines and deaf to the sound of the impending crashing waves of change.

The GWOT you continue to refer to as "WOT" started with our correct focus on hunting and destroying Al Qaeda in Afghanistan after September 11, 2001. In March 2003, the United States invaded a country that did not threaten us, did not attack us, and did not want war with us, to disarm it of weapons of mass destruction we have since discovered it did not have. President Bush was assured by his minders that the WMDs would be found, the US soldiers would be welcomed as liberators, that democracy would flourish in Iraq and spread across the Middle East, that our triumph would convince the Palestinians and Israelis to make peace. None of this happened. Any one opposing the invasion of Iraq were to be called unpatriotic even if those unpatriotic citizens opposing the war were proven correct. Now our great country is bogged down and our army is being bled in a war to create a democracy in a country where it never existed. US prestige has eroded to all time lows. The President is hated throughout the world. Now we have volunteers from different parts of the Middle East trickling into Iraq just to fight our army. It looks as if we may have ignited and inflamed a war of civilizations when it was in our best interest to avoid such a conflict. So, go ahead tell me again why you are so gung-ho for a War On Terror that should be waged against terrorists and not Iraqis who are trying to rid us from their country. The most patriotic thing to do is to support the Constitution and allow the freedom to have a debate and discussion on poor foreign policies brought about by an Administration bent on destroying our very own principles and rights.

Syrius

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

(yawn)

(yawn)

Let's see now....  Al

Let's see now....  Al Qaeda and its adherents are Holy Warriors.  They hold no particular nationality and are spread across 100 or more different countries.  Their common bond is Islamic Fundamentalism, a religion, not a nation.

Sooo.. how precisely are you ever-wise liberals going to destroy them in Afghanistan, a rugged, mountainous country with widepsread patches of local populace sympathetic to both Al Qaeda and the Taliban?  More importantly, how are you going to destroy Al Qaeda elements in the myriad countries they are present?  They will not be drawn to Afghanistan in any significant numbers in part due to its inaccessibility and in part due to its lack of strategic value.

How are you going to conduct the War on Islamofacsim?  We of the conservative bent are forced to conclude from your rhetoric that you plan to fold our tents and come home:  you plan to Capitulate.  This will fail as surely as I write this.  Moreover, capitulaton will enable Al Qaeda to eventually aquire one or more nukes and use them here.

This is what you support.  Is it any surprise that conservatives and anyone else with real vision reject this?

Are you absolutely positive on your assumption?

NL207,

Is it the War On Terror or the War On Islamo-fascism? If you were to correctly read through my comment, you would have realized I pointed to the correct focus of our initial attack on Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the current trickling of volunteers (not necessarily for Al Qaeda) into Iraq to fight our forces. Iranians are Shi'a, Al Qaeda is Sunni. They do not like each other.

Your question-

"Sooo.. how precisely are you ever-wise liberals going to destroy them
in Afghanistan, a rugged, mountainous country with widepsread patches
of local populace sympathetic to both Al Qaeda and the Taliban?"

This question was already answered by our Commander-in-Chief President Bush- with a war in IRAQ! Gosh, even I knew there were easier targets for our forces in Iraq. Afghanistan is too tough and hard to wage war for the couch potato political leaders in DC.

Your assertion-

"They will not be drawn to Afghanistan in any significant numbers in
part due to its inaccessibility and in part due to its lack of
strategic value."

Then I would be correct in my assumption by waging war on a country of convenience, such as Iraq, we would allow Al Qaeda to enter a country in which we would have the upper hand and be able to kill them were they stand? That's ludicrous to believe Al Qaeda would actually leave their safe havens in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan and be exposed to death and destruction by our forces in Iraq. So far, any incursions by the Pakistan Military into the tribal areas have always been met with fierce resistance.

Your quote-

"We of the conservative bent are forced to conclude from your rhetoric
that you plan to fold our tents and come home: you plan to Capitulate."

Oh, no. I want our forces fighting Al Qaeda and fighting them were they have found safe havens in the world primarily in the Afghan/ Pakistan border regions. Less troops in Iraq, more in Afghanistan. The Iraqis will know how to rid themselves of Al Qaeda by either kicking them out of Iraq or killing them.

Your quote-

"Moreover, capitulaton will enable Al Qaeda to eventually aquire one or more nukes and use them here."

From where? Proof? Just because they want them doesn't mean they can get them. Logistics. They are creative but they are being marginalized and cut off. Boise, Idaho as a possible target? Homeland Security reports Boise is vunerable. Assemble the troops and security forces!

By the way, most of my comments were taken from a conglomeration of conservative leaders thoughts, comments and statements against the extreme radical right wing elements of our country supporting the war in Iraq. I made sure to use conservatives' comments against your own views which you believe to be mainstream conservative. You're just drowning in the Kool-Aid...

Syrius

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

I was going to provide

I was going to provide links, but then I realized that I am too tired. You won't read them anyway. You libs are just a closed minded, intolerant bunch of megalomaniacs, unless you are talking about giving BJ's to everyone, then you are open minded as hell. I'm done.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

RestUp,

A win for me by default, I thank you for withdrawing and saving us all the trouble of reading your inane links which in the long run will continue to prove my position as correct.Your continued brutal beating from me reminds me of the Black Knight skit in Monty Python's The Holy Grail. May I cross as you bleed to death?

As for the reference of me being a close-minded, intolerant megalomaniac- I guess you just proved it by displaying your open-minded, tolerant, and magnanimous position.

What's up with the closeted reference to homosexuality? Come on out and really show yourself in all your glory.

Buh-bye!

Syrius

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

S

still doing the Cleopatra act i see

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

S

A win??? You have won nothing. No matter how many times you are proven wrong, you put your fingers in your ears and yell "I can't hear you, I can't hear you". You started this by stating that if we were not with bush on ehtanol, we were completely against him. Utter nonsense. I know, I know, you agreed with everything Clinton did in office. Even Bosnia, right? After all, we know those guys were a threat now don't we? An aspirin factory in Sudan. No problem, they were probably lacing those pills wiht missiles, right?

I don't like the ethanol bill. Clinton, (both of them) stand to make a lot of money. Guess which side they are on. Being the good little greenie you are, surely you hate BJ now, right?

I hear you.

RestUp,

I see the hypocrisy in the statements. I see this collective as having it their way when it fits into an agenda they feel is correct. I was pointing out your disagreement falls in line with a liberal viewpoint- even as a stretch- a communist one like Fidel. The question was posed to danybhoy and he had the backbone to answer it. The rest of you jumped into an argument you thought was an affront to me. I'm honored by the focus. I bask in your hatred.

According to my count so far...Restless at 5 comments; Blonde with 3; Indiana Joe, PopTech, FreeStinker(yawn) and NL207 with 1; and the brainchild of the bunch, botg, comes in two days later with absolutely no comment to add but just a personal attack.

RestUp, you continue to attack the money side of the argument, who will gain to profit the most. Are you against Capitalism and the free market? The Clintons will make money right beside everyone involved in the process- Commodities brokers, Ethanol producers, Big Oil, etc. The corn producing states will also benefit from the boom in revenue. It's home grown. Made in the good ol' US of A. Your problem with Capitalism and the American Way disturbs me. Have you all turned into (what you have tried to label others who question your views) - "liberals"? I'm shocked and horrified! I really would like it if you found another way to describe yourselves I think most liberals would be offended with your inclusion. How about the "Conservative Hypocrite Movement"? The Movement where you get to drink the Kool-Aid all day never asking how many pharmaceuticals have been added and then believe what your "CHM" minders tell you.

Syrius

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

Clueless about the Free Market, Ethanol and everything else...

Government mandates and subsidies have nothing to do with the free market.

Oh wait did you think trying to use Bush's dumb policies on certain issues or one of your idol's Fidel Castro as an argument? Wow you are getting desperate. It couldn't be conservatives are not partisans?

Syrius time to get Serious about what you don't know about Ethanol...

Ethanol And Biodiesel From Crops Not Worth The Energy (Science Daily)

Myth: Corn Ethanol is Great (Video) (5min) (John Stossel, 20/20)
The Problems With Ethanol (Video) (5min)

Ethanol Energy Content (U.S Department of Energy)

QUOTE

Ethanol (E85) = 80,000 BTUs, Gasoline = 125,000 BTUs (per gallon)

Ethanol - E85 BTU Adjusted Price (AAA)
Ethanol - Ethanol E85 fuel loses cost-benefit test to diesel (USA Today)
Ethanol - Ethanol Fuels Fire Concerns (ABC News)
Ethanol - Ethanol Is Not the Answer (The New York Sun)
Ethanol - Ethanol Makes Gasoline Costlier, Dirtier (Cato Institute)
Ethanol - Ethanol: Myths and Realities (BusinessWeek)

QUOTE (BusinessWeek)

Ethanol
can't travel in pipelines along with gasoline, because it picks up
excess water and impurities. Also, ethanol contains less energy than
gas. That means drivers have to make more frequent trips to the pump.

Ethanol - Ethanol Vehicles Pose Significant Risk To Health, New Study Finds (Science Daily)
Ethanol - Fuel Ethanol Cannot Alleviate U.S. Dependence On Petroleum (Science Daily)
Ethanol - Rush To Produce Corn-based Ethanol Will Worsen 'Dead Zone' In Gulf Of Mexico, Study Says (Science Daily)
Ethanol - Study: Ethanol May Add to Global Warming (USA Today)
Ethanol - Study: Ethanol Production Consumes Six Units Of Energy To Produce Just One (Science Daily)
Ethanol - Study: Ethanol Won't Solve Energy Problems (USA Today)

QUOTE (USAToday)

Ethanol
is far from a cure-all for the nation's energy problems. It's not as
environmentally friendly as some supporters claim and would supply only
12 percent of U.S. motoring fuel even if every acre of corn were used.

Ethanol - Test results: E85 vs. gasoline (Consumer Reports)
Ethanol - The Environmental Costs of Ethanol (National Center For Policy Abalysis)
Ethanol - The Many Myths of Ethanol (John Stossel, 20/20)
Ethanol - The Ethanol Fallacy (Popular Mechanics)
Ethanol - The Ethanol Myth (Consumer Reports)

QUOTE (Consumer Reports)

E85, which is 85 percent ethanol, provides fewer miles per gallon, costs more, and is hard to find outside the Midwest.

Ethanol Fuel From Corn Faulted As "Unsustainable Subsidized Food Burning" In Analysis By Cornell Scientist (Science Daily)
Food - Biofuel Brews up Higher German Beer Prices (MSNBC)
Food - Biofuel Demand Makes Food Expensive (BBC)
Food - Biofuels Could Lead to Mass Hunger Deaths: U.N. Envoy (Reuters)
Food - Corn to Blame for Rising Food Prices (ABC News)
Food - Ethanol fuels food price frenzy (Financial Post, Canda)
Food - Ethanol Mandates Could Drive Up Food Prices, Enviros Say (CNSNews)
Food - Ethanol Production, Worldwide Demand Sends Prices for Dairy Goods Soaring (MSNBC)
Food - Germany's Cheap Beer Tradition Under Threat From Biofuels (Deutsche Welle)
Food - IMF Warns About Impact of Biofuels on Food Prices (Forbes)
Food - How Biofuels Could Starve the Poor (The New York Times)
Food - Mexicans Torch Tequila Fields for Ethanol Boom Corn (Reuters)
Food - Milk Prices Soar as Government Backs Ethanol (The Daily Green)
Food - More Ethanol, Less Sugar (The New York Times)
Food - Think Tank Warns Biofuel Will Lead to Rocketing Food Prices (Vnunet, UK)
Food - Will Demand for Ethanol Raise Food Prices? The Government Says Yes (FOXNews)

Livestock - Cattle Fed Byproducts Of Ethanol Production Harbor Dangerous E. Coli Bacteria (Science Daily)
Livestock - Ethanol, Corn To Weigh Heavily On Future Of Livestock Industry (Science Daily)

Increase In Ethanol Production From Corn Could Significantly Harm Water Quality (Science Daily)
Water - Ethanol Production May Put Pinch on Water Resources (FOXNews)
Water - Ethanol Production Threatens Plains States With Water Scarcity (Environmental News Service)
Water - Ethanol's Water Shortage (The Wall Street Journal)
Water - Water Constraints Rain on Ethanol Zeal (USA Today)

Brazil - The Myth of Brazil’s Ethanol Success (Energy Tribune)
Brazil - Brazil Ethanol Boom Belied by Diseased Lungs Among Cane Workers (Bloomberg)
Brazil - 'Slave' Labourers Freed in Brazil (BBC)
Brazil - There Is No Ethanol Revolution in Brazil (LewRockwell)

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Wow, Now that's a list!!!!

Popped!

Shall I put you down as an environmentalist? internationalist? humanitarian? Global warming supporter? Your list takes my breath away so to speak...

Hey Giles take a look at his list. He's using liberal arguments. Oh my gosh, my job here is done. Popped you're a LIBERAL! May the FSM bless you.

Syrius

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

Put me down as a conservative

I am using conservative and logical arguments:

1. Ethanol is not cost competitive in the free market and relies on government subsidies to even come close to being competitive.

2. Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline and thus you would get less mileage. ect...

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

Sy

Care to explain to me how ethanol represents the free market when it is being subsidized by the federal government? I'm not against anyone making an honest buck, but billy boy in not doing that. He is falling in line with all of the other welfare recipeints, albeit, he is getting much more bang for his buck. He is not inventing anything, not doing anything to make ethanol more efficient, or looking for options other than food crops for fuel. He is simply using his name to make money in an ineffecient, dangerous game.

I am against all federal subsidies. That would include all welfare, federal money for abortions, healthcare, farming, the bailout of Bear Stearns, the bailout of idiots who overextended themselves on APR's, and even the bailout of Chrysler back in the day. My mind does not change on these matters, no matter who is in the White House.

I have noticed, though, that you have not answered any of my posts in two threads now. Silly responses with no merit or ideas outside of dem talking points. You are getting very desperate, evasive, and boring.

I'M NO KOOL-AID DRINKER...

 Yeah, I oppose Bush on this issue, I also thinks his border policy sucks too. But unlike many on the left, I see things he's done OK with. I am not afraid to say this, I love Big Oil, they should be allowed to their job. If they were allow to do so, we would all be better off.

I live in Minnesota, & it's not popular to badmouth Ethanol here, outstate in particular. But I don't give a crap, it's not good for America, & without the gov't subsidies, it's not a sustainable buisiness.

I'm not happy with everything Bush does or has tried, but he's better then the 2 schmucks he beat in 2000 & 2004. I also assume he will be a better president then McCain, Clinton, or Obama.

 

 

"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise"  Mark Levin

Soooo...

Danybhoy,

You're okay with flip flopping between issues you like and dislike and skewer and label those who oppose you as liberals.

Your quote-

"Bush is better than the other two schmucks he beat?"

The first one wasn't beaten by Bush, the Supreme Court gave Bush the Presidency. Also, the first one has won the Nobel Prize and has been, for all intents and purposes, extremely successful worldwide in his own ventures whether you agree or disagree with his views. As for Kerry, he was his own worst enemy. It's a moot point to argue who would be better since neither held the position. Apples and Oranges.

This quote is disturbing-

"I also assume he will be a better president then McCain, Clinton, or Obama."

One could take this as if Bush is currently in the race for the White House. Of course, time will tell how effective the next president will be than the current one. My hope is for a better change in which all Americans can prosper instead of a select few.

Syrius

 

"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott

 

SYRIUS...

A couple of things, I generally don't flip-flop about too many things. I see several things where Bush has been OK, like taxes, Judges, & the war on terror. I think he sucks on the border, I really did'nt care too much for Dubai Ports, & I really wish he was a better speaker. Am I 100% on him, no, he could do better, but do I think he is better then Gore or Kerry  would have been, yeah.

Actually, it was Gore trying to go through the FL courts that ended up sending the election to the Supreme Court. The man was not convincing in any way, shape, or form, hell, he was told to wear earth tones by (I think Naiomi Wolf) , & he was 3 different people at the 3 debates, including a 7 year old child...sigh...sigh...sigh...He also could not even win his home state of TN, even Mondale & McGovern won their home states. God Bless Ralph Nadar. As for his Nobel Prize & his Acadamy Award & things like that he has been given(not earned), it means nothing to me. The Nobel he got should have been for science, but since what he is pimping ain't science, it's political, they had to give him something, so they gave him the peace prize. He really is the booby prize in my eyes.Gore is a fraudster of the highest order. He is aiming way higher the The White House, he wants to control the world through a socialist world gov't via "global warming" with carbon credits & green taxes. His time will come, history will not be kind to him, I only hope I live to see it.

Kerry is a 5 star phoney, he never made the case why he should be President, is not a likable person, & too many people remember how he sold out his "brother's"in arms with his testomony at those congressional hearings after he left Vietnam.

So you find this comment disturbing? "I also assume he(Bush)will be a better President then McCain, Clinton, or Obama", hmm. Well, if you think I could be saying Bush is still running for The White House, he is not,(your a bit too Clintonian here, remember what is, is)the Dems are still running against him.

 Also, I meant what I said, McCain has the best qualities among the final 3, but he still sucks on too many things for my liking. He sucks on the border, global warming, Gitmo, & is more willing to reach out to libs then what should be his base. Hillary is a complete & total liar. It started long before she was 1st lady of Arkansas... http://www.northstarwriters.com/dc163.htm ...A 27 year Hillary doing much of the same crap we have all gotten used to, she makes Nixon look good. As for Obama, he is nothing if not well spoken. He is the biggest leftie in the Senate, including Bernie Sanders, who is a Socialist. I don't like the people around him. It goes beyond the racist Rev.J Wright, I don't like his mouthy wife, I don't like some of his other advisors either. Mika's father, BigZ, was a disaster with Carter, will be with Obama, & he has this Gen. McPeak who sounds too much like Gen.Wesley Clark for my liking. Obama would be the greatest thing to happen to the conservative movement if elected, but the cost to this nation would be too high to allow that to happen.

One part of my thought about why I feel all 3 will suck if elected is that they are Senators, there is a reason we don't elect them, Senators suck when elected. I did'nt point that out, I should have.

As to your point about change where only a few prosper, that's BS. Talk to people from place where only a few REALLY prosper, they come from 3 world crapholes, former communist states, or from other totalitarian nations where there is no chance to move up. If you think the USA is about the few, your wrong. The people I see from these places came here for the fredom to make a better life, they know what too many here don't. Too many people are told they are the victim, that they can't do it. If they buy into that, they deserve the crap sandwich life will feed them. If they believe in themselves & America, then they are on to something.

Sorry for being as long winded as Fidel Castro...

 

 

"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise"  Mark Levin

Big oil

So how are the libs gonna explain this to their fanatics? At least someone is making a profit. See below....

Abbott: We need more supplies. Go get oil for our grain.

Costello: Why does Granny need oil?

Abbott: Not Granny! We need oil to run our tractors to grow grain so we can turn it into oil. Now go get oil so we can toil the soil.

Costello: I don't think we ought to soil our toes.

Abbott: Soil our toes?? Why don't you move away from that tractor so you can hear me. Hook up that plow. And for God's sake, don't pour any more grain alchohol into the tank, that's expensive stuff.

Costello: The Kos boys drank all of Granny's alchohol, but they did say thanks. How about I hook up this plow for ya?

Abbot: That's just what I said. We're wasting time. Now here's what we're going to do. Call up big oil and tell them we'll buy everything they have. They're taking a beating these days from Congress, so we ought to be able to get it cheap. Use it in our tractors here and plant more grain. We can get a good price for the grain these days by selling to our Green buddies to convert into gas. This takes food off of everyone's table, so our grain goes up even more, causing us to use more and more cheap oil to plant more and more grain for bigger profits.

Costello: Sounds great. What are we going to do with all the money?

Abbot: We're gonna buy those damn Yankees and tell them who's on first.

Costello: Well then who's on first?

Abbot: Yes .....

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

Ted Turner was Right - - we're headed towards cannibalism

We're running out of Food, but it's not Global warming.

What mental Giants they have at CNN.

When they're standing knee deep in Snow, in July, IN Florida,  CNN will broadcast the End of The Global Warming hoax.  

"When they're standing knee

"When they're standing knee deep in Snow, in July, IN Florida,  CNN will broadcast the End of The Global Warming hoax"

Dream on. They will still be saying, "Over all, temps are still on an increasing trend."

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

We are screwed

During one of the 1 on 1 debates with Clinton, Obama was asked about high gas cost. His answer (non-quote) "We will all have to sacrafice until alternative fuels are available" Clinton agreeded with him.

Saw John McCain asked same question yesterday by Greata on Fox and he gave the same answer with different words.

JM... Yep, we are in big

JM...

Yep, we are in big trouble with the three candidates when it comes to self-dependency and any oil within or off-shore.

It is disgraceful.

If I hear McCain say one more time we have to get off foreign oil and aiding the terrorists I am going to go through the television screen....I watched this man single-handed along with other RINO's vote against drilling here for years, and he has the outright blatant audicity to even mutter those words.

Unfortunately you can be sure this will not be brought up with any measurable degree in any of the upcoming debates in the general election...it will all be renewable energy...blah blah blah...

Guess we will have to see if anything will happen with this find. 

Going to be interesting to see what nay of them say about this.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

BT In regards to the

BT

In regards to the Dakota oil feels we aready know the modus operandi. If the enviro-Nazi's have their way they'll claim some insect is about to go extinct, and if that doesn't fly some adhoc liberals will come out saying they want to drill in some ancient Indian burial grounds.

 My mistake, make that Native American burial grounds.   

planning the energy economy

Most of this concern by politicians about energy is really just an argument for a planned economy. Even conservatives fall for it. Don't subsidize, and don't hinder. The market really will sort this all out.

Why ? Why do we have to suffer and wait for alternative fuels ?

Global warming.....NOT !!!

Gimme another answer....."Because the Evvironmentalist say so, and the US congress "Believes" Al Gore"

 

DON"T RE-ELECT ANYONE !

We don't eat crude oil, we

We don't eat crude oil, we don't eat coal, we don't eat uranium, and we don't eat wood. All of these materials the US has an overabundance of we can use to transform into energy.  So what do the Einsteins in the US government mandate? Lets's take the main ingredient in cereals, snack foods, chips, soft drinks, feed for dairy, feed for beef, feed for pork, feed for humans,  and turn it into an inefficient substitute for petroleum, thereby creating a shortage of food staples sending food prices sky high. And to top it off, do we see fuel prices go down???  Noooooo. We get the double whammy because as food prices go up fuel prices continue to rise.

The sad part we can't just pin this on the dems.   

mc.... Govt. at it's

mc....

Govt. at it's best.

...and they wonder why some of us are glad out here when they don't go to work...the three days they usually work a week are three days too much.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Are you sure?

OK, there are 56 Pounds in a bushel of corn. A bushel of corn goes for $6 today vs. say $2.50 a few years ago. So corn is at $.007/oz today vs. $.0028/oz. a few years ago.

Kellogs Corn flakes go for $4.39/18oz box, or $.24/oz. That means Corn goes for...3400% markup over commodity price now.

Maybe Kellogs could survive with a 2000% mark up rather than raising prices?

Assigning blame for end user food prices to commodity prices is not a 1:1 match. There is certainly enough fluff in the value to consumer to adjust market price to consumer demand. The shift in the cost of the commodity plays a very small role in end-user pricing of packaged foods.

3400% markup? Not quite

If Kelloggs just shipped ears of corn to stores, you might have a point.  Unfortunately, there are production costs, labor costs, transportation costs, packaging costs, marketing costs, etc.  That profit margin is considerably smaller than you suggest.  And many of those costs are increasing. 

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

So do the Math...

OK, then do the math. Maybe the profit margin is 1500%, big deal. It is the relative margin compared to the absolute margin that is important. The commodity cost of corn is a relatively insignificant portion of the price of packaged foods...unless you are buying corn flour.

For a site that claims to numerate issues in the media, the application of 8th grade arithmetic is missing in this story.

 

JBP

Who's profit margin?

If we're going to do the math correctly, then we need to determine who's making the MOST profit when you pay for a box of corn flakes. Is it the manufacture who produced the product, the retailer where you bought the product, the supplier who shipped the product to the retailer, the supplier who transported the raw materials to the manufacture, or the unions who supply the labor to manufacture, ship, and sell the product? Don’t forget about the federal, state, and local governments that tax the labor, shipping, production, and sales of the product for they too affect the final cost of any product.

There are many processes, and many individuals, involved in turning bushels of corn into that box of cereal. You can't just look at the cost of a raw product, compare it with the cost of a manufactured product that you buy, and then claim that a company is making far to much profit because the increased costs of a finished product over that of the raw ingredients. Add up all the intermediary costs of each step along the way and DO THE MATH YOURSELF! I guarantee you that you won't find a 1500 percent, or even 15 percent, markup by Kelloggs.

When your done with you math assignment, here's a little science experiment for you to try: Take hundreds of bushels of raw corn an turn them into boxes of cereal that you can sell to the public at a cheaper price than what's charged for a box of corn flakes.

Innumerate

Cobra,

Your completely innumerate ramblings really have no place in what purports to be a fact based site. The (wrong) point of the article is that higher corn prices are causing food prices to the consumer to skyrocket. This is not true, because there is so little raw material by $ value in processed foods.

The only way to get to a sensible answer is to compute the value of corn in Corn Flakes or wheat in Cream of Wheat etc. You refuse to do that.

The price of food is equal to what the consumer will pay for it, not to the value of the underlying commodity. If people will pay $5 for a box of Corn Flakes, the grocer will charge that amount regardless of whether there is $.003 or $.007 worth of corn in the package. If people will pay $6.00, the grocer will charge that amount as well.

In most examples of processed food, the commodity cost is next to irrelevant to the price of the good.

JBP

The 2000% margin is not a

The 2000% margin is not a 1:1 match factoring only the rising commodity price. Other increasing costs that are included in the end user price is the dramatic increase in diesel fuel of getting the product to market which has more than doubled in recent years. Also, the energy costs to run the processing plant has dramatically increased due to higher electric, and natural gas rates. Employees feeling the pinch of higher fuel costs are squeezing their employers via unions and so forth to pony up more capital in their paychecks. Other food manufactures such as Pepsico which relies heavily on plastics to bottle their soda or to wrap a bag of Doritos, since plastic is a petroleum based product their cost of packaging has also dramatically increased, thus heavily cutting into that magical 2000% fluff.    

So pick a number

Then do the calculation instead of whining like a NY Times reporter. The total lack of arithmetic here is shocking.

Again, the cost of corn is insignificant to the price of corn flakes.

JBP

You can bet your bottom

You can bet your bottom dollar that "rising corn prices" will ALWAYS be used to justify price increases for foods that are made from corn. And maybe a touch more.

Period.

USDA expects less corn to be planted

Here's more news attesting to the wisdom of making corn into ethanol:  According to an AP story appearing in the Mason City (Iowa) Globe-Gazette, the USDA expects farmers to plant LESS corn this year.  I won't reiterate the reasons here.  You can read the article.  However, with less corn sought by more ethanol plants, record corn prices are likely to go higher.

Wet fields in much of corn country may also delay planting and reduce yields. 

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

Corn problems

Soon one of these Earth is on fire genuises will issue a report that corn is very harmful to our health. That it causes most of our physical and mental health problems.

Not Just Corn

More sugar!

Plans are afoot out in the leftist Hawaiian Islands to make ethanol out of sugar cane. Projects are already being mentioned on the isles of Kauai and Maui.

http://www.bizjourna...

I'm working on developing an

I'm working on developing an engine that runs on cigarette butts.

So, what will you do when

So, what will you do when the health Nazis outlaw cigarettes?

Can you make cigarette butts out of corn?

;^D

Maybe we can develop an

Maybe we can develop an engine that burns old tires.Ha!

And emits cigarette

And emits cigarette butts!

Problem solved!

LMAO

Don't forget about corn cob pipes

Don't forget about corn cob pipes. After all, they worked for MacArthur.

Corn based ethanol is a negative sum equation

I never understood the reasoning behind using a food source to create fuel. It’s a negative sum equation.

When we use corn as a food source we create waste products through the process of digestion that can be used to aid in the production of the corn crop. We naturally generate the nutrients that the corn needs to grow. It’s a symbiotic relationship, a positive sum equation

Conversely, when we use the corn as a fuel source that fuel is burned and no waste products are recovered that can be used to aid in the production of the corn crop. We unnaturally destroy the nutrients that the corn needs to grow. It’s a parasitic relationship, a negative sum equation.

Why are we promoting a parasitic relationship that will invariably lead to the reduction in the production of both food AND fuel and call that a benefit to mankind?

(on edit: that's food and fuel, not corn and fuel)

Not since the Middle Ages

Cobra,

I was not sure your view of agriculture survived the middle ages. People typically do not defectate and urinate in corn fields to fertilize the crop, though some may as a matter of convenience, the number must be trivial compared to those that use indoor plumbing.

Glad to see a fellow medievalist adding his insights into agricultural production techniques!

JBP

Don't be stupid

Don't be stupid, waste treatment facilities take the by-products of the treatment process and sell them to farmers as fertilizer. So, yes, our waste IS used to fertilize the plants we grow as food.

It seems to me that you continually over-simplify matters in order to make arguments that can not be supported by actual evidence. Why do you do this? Is it because your arguments are so weak that you need to discount specific aspects of reality in order to make them?

 

Do you really think that is true?

I would like to see some numbers to support your medievalist asusmption that "waste treatment facilities take the by-products of the treatment process and sell them to farmers as fertilizer". Since when? I have farmed for 43 years in a rather large operation in Central Illinois, and never once has this happened on our farm, or any of our neighbors farms, in what is the largest Corn production /acre region in the world.

Your reality stopped about the stone age when people began using animal manure rather than human waste for fertilizer, a practice which also stopped about 60 years ago in the US.

JBP

Sewage Waste is used as Fertiziler

This is true, sewage waste is treated and refined and resold as "Biosolids" for fertilizer. The final form is bacteria free to EPA standards of regular fertilizer.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

And how often is it used?

Show some numbers then. I can give you first hand information on how much is used in our area in Central Illinois (the Corn Belt). Zero.

JBP

CDOB.....If you use any biosolids,

If you use any biosolids, that is exactly what it is. Sewage waste. It is common for the waste treatment facility to sell the sludge to companies, who in turn sell it as biosolid class fertilizer. The process has been approved by the EPA and has been in practice for decades.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

biosolids

"Approximately 5.6 million dry tons of sewage sludge are used or disposed of annually in the United States; approximately 60% of that is used for land application."

"EPA estimates that sewage sludge is applied to approximately 0.1% of available agricultural land in the United States on an annual basis."

Biosolids Applied to Land: Advancing Standards and Practices (2002)

 

Thank You

Thank you Giles for quantifying this. Interactive features of the internet trump hyperbole.

JBP

CDOBs

here's a video of San Diego's biosolids reclamation.  I worked on projects at Point Loma for years.  They have a larger (1.5 MW) co-gen plant in Point Loma.

   “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

Bet he won't be a CNN correspondent for much longer.

If the truth of rising food prices gets out...

Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!

Ali Velshi - and journalist in general...

He also said farmers were substituting wheat for corn - doubtful.

Even at the current price of corn, I would be surprized if there is fifty cents worth of corn in a box of corn flakes. Food prices are going up for two reasons.

  1. Price of oil - increased transportation costs
  2. Increased exports

Both of these can be linked to the weak dollar. It has very little, if anything, to do with corn ethanol. Distillers grain is an excellent, and sometimes better, feed stock. (PDF) Done properly, the ethanol is harvested from the corn earning 1.3 to 1.4 energy units for every unit of energy input. Corn is not fed to livestock because of the ethanol content but the feed value remains after the ethanol is harvested. Think of it as a resourse perviously waisted or perhaps converted to methane by livestock.

"...earning 1.3 to 1.4

"...earning 1.3 to 1.4 energy units for every unit of energy input."

If that were the case, we would not need the goverment subsidies to the ethanol. You get about 25 gal of ethanol for 400 pounds of corn. That will not equate to 1.3 or 1.4 energy units. To obtain more energy than you put in is not in the realm of posibilities. Not even from atomic resources. No such thing.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Ethanol Subsidies

What is the amount of the ethanol subsidy? How does it compare to subsidies given to the oil industry?

Why don't you look this up

Why don't you look this up yourself, wiseguy?  Link or slink.

The Ethanol Subsidies

- Total Subsidies for Ethanol Between $6.3 and $8.7 Billion Per Year ($1.42-$1.87 Per Gallon)
- Total Subsidies for Biodiesel Between $1.7 and $2.3 Billion Per Year ($1.69-$2.15 Per Gallon)

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

oil subsidy resources

 

"Democrats have easily passed legislation in the House to rescind $14
billion in tax breaks and subsidies for oil drillers and reserve the
money to develop alternative energy projects and conservation
technologies." International Herald Tribune

"The oil industry hopes to eliminate a provision that rescinds more than
$13 billion in tax breaks granted in 2004 and 2005, when Congress was
in Republican hands." NYT