Yesterday Brian Williams delivered an NBC Nightly News report about President Obama attending the Copenhagen global warming summit. Guess what hot topic was left untouched? If you had guessed Climategate you would have been correct. Not only Williams but also the other TV networks, with the exception of FOX News, have completely ignored what is considered to be the biggest scientific scandal in history. However, new Climategate revelations made by the Canada Free Press about a White House connection to the scandal will soon make it much more difficult (and ridiculous) for the networks to ignore.
Canada Free Press editor Judi McLeod and Canadian climatologist Dr. Tim Ball reveal the involvement of White House Science Czar John Holdren (photo) in the Climategate Scandal. The picture presented of Holdren is not a pretty one:
Lift up a rock and another snake comes slithering out from the ongoing University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit (CRU) scandal, now riding as “Climategate”.
Obama Science Czar John Holdren is directly involved in CRU’s unfolding Climategate scandal. In fact, according to files released by a CEU hacker or whistleblower, Holdren is involved in what Canada Free Press (CFP) columnist Canadian climatologist Dr. Tim Ball terms “a truculent and nasty manner that provides a brief demonstration of his lack of understanding, commitment on faith and willingness to ridicule and bully people”.
An example of Holdren's nastiness from the CRU files involves the ridicule solar physicists Sally Baliunas and Willie Soon. Here is Dr. Ball's description of what happened:
I’ve known solar physicists Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon for a long time. I’ve published articles with Willie and enjoyed extensive communication. I was on advisory committees with them when Sallie suddenly and politely withdrew from the fray. I don’t know if the following events were contributing factors but it is likely.
Baliunas and Soon were authors of excellent work confirming the existence of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) from a multitude of sources. Their work challenged attempts to get rid of the MWP because it contradicted the claim by the proponents of anthropogenic global warming (AGW). Several scientists challenged the claim that the latter part of the 20th century was the warmest ever. They knew the claim was false, many warmer periods occurred in the past. Michael Mann ‘got rid’ of the MWP with his production of the hockey stick, but Soon and Baliunas were problematic. What better than have a powerful academic destroy their credibility for you? Sadly, there are always people who will do the dirty work.
Such as a certain person destined to become a White House Science Czar? Dr. Ball elaborates:
Indeed, Holdren’s emails show how sincere scientists would be made into raw “entertainment”.
On 16th October 2003 Michael Mann, infamous for his lead in the ‘hockey stick’ that dominated the 2001 IPCC Report, sent an email to people involved in the CRU scandal:
Dear All,
Thought you would be interested in this exchange, which John Holdren of Harvard has been kind enough to pass along…
At the time Holdren was Teresa and John Heinz Professor of Environmental Policy & Director, Program in Science, Technology, & Public Policy, Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, John F. Kennedy School of Government.
In an email on October16, 2003 from John Holdren to Michael Mann and Tom Wigley we are told:
I’m forwarding for your entertainment an exchange that followed from my being quoted in the Harvard Crimson to the effect that you and your colleagues are right and my “Harvard” colleagues Soon and Baliunas are wrong about what the evidence shows concerning surface temperatures over the past millennium. The cover note to faculty and postdocs in a regular Wednesday breakfast discussion group on environmental science and public policy in Harvard’s Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences is more or less self-explanatory.
This is what Holdren sent to the Wednesday Breakfast group:
I append here an e-mail correspondence I have engaged in over the past few days trying to educate a Soon/Baliunas supporter who originally wrote to me asking how I could think that Soon and Baliunas are wrong and Mann et al. are right (a view attributed to me, correctly, in the Harvard Crimson). This individual apparently runs a web site on which he had been touting the Soon/Baliunas position.
The exchange Holdren refers to is a challenge by Nick Schulz editor of Tech Central Station (TCS). On August 9, 2003 Schulz wrote:
In a recent Crimson story on the work of Soon and Baliunas, who have written for my website [1 techcentralstation.com, you are quoted as saying: My impression is that the critics are right. It s unfortunate that so much attention is paid to a flawed analysis, but that’s what happens when something happens to support the political climate in Washington. Do you feel the same way about the work of Mann et. al.? If not why not?
Holdren provides lengthy responses on October 13, 14, and 16 but comments fail to answer Schulz’s questions. After the first response Schulz replies:
I guess my problem concerns what lawyers call the burden of proof. The burden weighs heavily, much more heavily, given the claims on Mann et.al. than it does on Soon/Baliunas. Would you agree?
Of course, Holdren doesn’t agree. He replies:
But, in practice, burden of proof is an evolving thing-it evolves as the amount of evidence relevant to a particular proposition grows.
Dr. Ball elaborates on this "evolving burden of proof" argument by Holdren:
No it doesn’t evolve; it is either on one side or the other. This argument is in line with what has happened with AGW. He then demonstrates his lack of understanding of science and climate science by opting for Mann and his hockey stick over Soon and Baliunas. His entire defense and position devolves to a political position. His attempt to belittle Soon and Baliunas in front of colleagues is a measure of the man’s blindness and political opportunism that pervades everything he says or does.
Schulz provides a solid summary when he writes:
I’ll close by saying I’m willing to admit that, as someone lacking a PhD, I could be punching above my weight. But I will ask you a different but related question. How much hope is there for reaching reasonable public policy decisions that affect the lives of millions if the science upon which those decisions must be made is said to be by definition beyond the reach of those people?
Dr. Ball concludes with this devastating appraisal of John Holdren:
We now know it was deliberately placed beyond the reach of the people by the group that he used to ridicule Soon and Baliunas. Holdren was blinded by his political views, which as his record shows are frightening. One web site synthesizes his position on over-population as follows, “Forced abortions. Mass sterilization. A “Planetary Regime” with the power of life and death over American citizens.
Holdren has a long history of seeking total government control. He was involved in the Club of Rome providing Paul Ehrlich with the scientific data in his bet with Julian Simon. Ehrlich lost the bet. Holdren’s behavior in this sorry episode with Soon and Baliunas is too true to form and shows the leopard never changes his spots.
Keep in mind that Holdren as the White House Science Czar has direct input to President Obama on the subject of global warming. Perhaps he will even accompany Obama to the Copenhagen summit. Will anybody in the MSM dare to ask Obama about the Climategate revelations of data manipulations and suppression of contrary views as well as the involvement of his own Science Czar in this scandal?
A cookie! An oatmeal cookie to the first reporter to dare ask Obama a question about Climategate!
And for Brian Williams, a Five Guys burger (with fries) for asking the same question.
—P.J. Gladnick is a freelance writer and creator of the DUmmie FUnnies blog.
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Think So?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 09:29 ET by Dim BulbHowever, new Climategate revelations
made by the Canada Free Press about a White House connection to the
scandal will soon make it much more difficult (and ridiculous) for the
networks to ignore.
You underestimate both their arrogance and their stupidity.
I'd rather think you
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 09:38 ET by troglodytI'd rather think you overestimate the scandalous in this scandal.
So Trog, what did you do for Thanksgiving?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:47 ET by ParagrouperWhy I went fishing--dropped a line over the side and took a criuse across News Buster lake.
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
No thanksgiving for me. Just
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:55 ET by troglodytNo thanksgiving for me. Just a normal workday in europe.
Work?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:03 ET by ParagrouperThat must be some job you have. Who do you work for, Trolls 'R Us?
"Beware the fury of the patient man." - John Dryden
well I should call it at
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:38 ET by troglodytwell I should call it at work. Not much to do here but to "troll".
Ah.....a Eurotrash Troll
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:39 ET by BlondeIt all makes sense now.
I hope he fails, too.
→ That's right
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:50 ET by Cool ArrowAnd what you wanna bet he's got a Government job.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
It has to be a weird thing...
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:47 ET by UnsaneAnd as we all know, the whole concept of "Thanksgiving" is alien to European ingrates.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
→ Unsane
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:54 ET by Cool ArrowDon't they give thanks to Russia for heating their homes?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Hah!
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:22 ET by UnsanePlease. Gerhard Schroeder, maybe, because he stands to maks some cash on an undersea pipeline, but that's it.
"Reunification is a big lie!" - Gerhard Schroeder, 1987
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I think they celebrate
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 16:00 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonI think they celebrate their own version of ThanksGiving on VE DAY.
They all face West and give thanks that German is not the national language of all the countries in the EU.
Obama, the first "alleged" president
http://gjresult.com
To all who posted above
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 09:09 ET by troglodytIt is nice to know what your resentments and prejudices about europe are but would you please inject some humor into your platitudes, because it's getting boring.
Sorry little buddy, but I
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 16:59 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonSorry little buddy, but I have no "resentments and prejudices about europe".
I merely point out that they have an excuse to celebrate ThanksGiving.
The fact that they have no day of celebration to HONOR our sacrifices on their behalf shows quite clearly that they have some deeprooted resntments towards us.
There is no 'humor' in the sadness of their lack of gratitude for those to whom they owe so much.
Obama, the first "alleged" president
http://gjresult.com
Reading that I'm getting
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:01 ET by troglodytReading that I'm getting not only bored but very tired.
"The fact that they have no day of celebration to HONOR our sacrifices
on their behalf shows quite clearly that they have some deeprooted
resntments towards us. "
That is nothing more than a logical fallacy.
You don't like that, huh?
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:28 ET by UnsaneThen try this:
From Foreign Policy, July/August 2007, in the "Think Again" section authored in that issue by Clive Crook:
"In addition, Old Europe's leaders...regret and resent American power. This institutions of the (European) Union itself express that worldview, another reason why American unilateralism - deployed, as it very often is, in Europe's interests - is so bitterly denounced. Europe cannot act unilaterally. It lacks the will and the means. Rather than face this reality squarely, member states find it better to moralize on the evils of unilateralism."
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
And that is why no european
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:37 ET by troglodytBesides the point that he is wrong: What do you actually want to show me?
Question
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:42 ET by UnsaneEuropean countries are democracies, correct? Their leaders are selected by their people...though admittedly, in a sign that glaciers are approaching the gates of Hell, Nicolas Sarkozy is an open admirer of the United States and gave a more pro-Amercan speech to Congress two years ago this month than our own President ever could.
And it's not hailing to America. It is appreciating this country.
From Tom Clancy, in an interview with Martin Greenberg:
"A lot of Europeans say Americans suffer from terminal naivete. Yeah, we were naive enough to go over and save Europe twice. Three times if you count the Russians. If that's naivete, I can live with it."
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Well speaking from
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:53 ET by troglodytWell speaking from experience both in america and in europe, americans are talking as much crap about europe as europeans are about america.
But they (i.e. many) do appreciate that America (conveniently forgetting the Soviets) saved them from fascism. On the other hand they (i.e. many) see that american interests and european interests (if they have common ones) don't converge very often and as the US is acting usually in its own interest critizise them for ignoring theirs.
America vs. Europe
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 17:31 ET by UnsaneWell speaking from experience both in america and in europe, americans are talking as much crap about europe as europeans are about america. Which wouldn't be happening, IMHO, if European elites weren't lecturing America on its behavior (who are backed by the European electorate) and if our own elites weren't constantly trying to be like the Europeans. The poisoning of the atmosphere by Chirac/de Villepin and Schroeder in 2002-2003 is a good case in point.
On the other hand they (i.e. many) see that american interests and european interests (if they have common ones) don't converge very often and as the US is acting usually in its own interest critizise them for ignoring theirs. Their interests converge more often than one realizes. How those interests are pursued is the point of disagreement. Take Iran. Europe seems to think that doing nothing and constantly TALKING will solve everything. This may work if there is an intra-EU dispute, but not when dealing with Iran. If they had any sense they would have at the very least shuttered their embassies and consulates there long ago. But no, they'd rather just keep talking. (I guess that might be because the Europeans are more beholden to Iran's oil, as they are geographically closer to Iran than we are. Nonetheless...)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
So Americans would stop
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 09:06 ET by troglodytSo Americans would stop talking crap about europe, if europeans stopped lecturing? Even if people in europe are lecturing America, there is nobody in american politics who really cares. Concerning Schröder and Chirac what they did had nothing to do with lecturing. The former tried to win his election and Chirac tried to protect french economic interests in Iraq.
Concerning Iran it is the same thing. Although both sides have the same interest in an Iran not armed with nukes, their economic interests diverge (as for example for Germany which has a strong interest keeping their economic ties with Iran). Actually I think they know that talking will bring them nowhere. But put before the choice of paying a war with Iran and the subsequent occupation or doing nothing (i.e. talking), I believe they'd rather have them what they want. After what happened to the US in Iraq this is nothing surprising.
Europe vs. the United States
Wed, 12/02/2009 - 01:24 ET by UnsaneSo Americans would stop talking crap about europe, if europeans stopped lecturing? Even if people in europe are lecturing America, there is nobody in american politics who really cares. There is, however, an American electorate who DOES care. And there are plenty of American politicians that consider Europe to be at the forefront of civilization instead of an ossifying collection of Nanny States. Those politicians can't go ten seconds without invoking Europe. So trust me, there are American politicians who care very much abou Europe's opinion far above that of the American electorate.
Concerning Schröder and Chirac what they did had nothing to do with lecturing. The former tried to win his election and Chirac tried to protect french economic interests in Iraq. Some honesty here. Yes, Schoeder was palying up anti-American sentiments to be Bundeskanzler for another term. Chirac was looking after French economic interests in Iraq, most certainly, as France and Iraq have a history of business deals. However, this was also about European Leftists and elites concerned with the idea of establishing Europe as a counterweight to evil U.S. hegemony (well, they saw it as evil) which has thankfully been swept aside as more Rightist/Altanticist governments have been elected in Europe, particularly with Sarkozy and Merkel.
Concerning Iran it is the same thing. Although both sides have the same interest in an Iran not armed with nukes, their economic interests diverge (as for example for Germany which has a strong interest keeping their economic ties with Iran). Actually I think they know that talking will bring them nowhere. But put before the choice of paying a war with Iran and the subsequent occupation or doing nothing (i.e. talking), I believe they'd rather have them what they want. After what happened to the US in Iraq this is nothing surprising. Still, this is total chicken-bleep. If the Europeans wanted results in Iran, they would turn the country into an economic pariah. They haven't. They could shutter their embassies and tell them "Screw you, we are not doing business with you guys until you claen up your act." But they don't, becauseman, are they hurting for money. They need it to fund their Nanny States. And not to mention the reason they cannot act unilaterally is because quite simply, they COULD invade and occupy Iran and set it on the straight and narrow...problem is that for the Nanny States of Europe, the babying of their people with all sorts of things they can really manage to get all by themselves is FAR more important than making sure no European cities get hit with an Iranian nuclear device.
Yes, the United States has budget problems of their own, but the pale compared to Europe's future liabilities combined with a shrinking tax base as they have fewer and fewer children.
And of course, you have to take a cheap shot at Iraq. Things are going rather smoothly there these days and have been for some time. Not pretty, by a long shot, but things have been moving along there. The Kurdish region in particular has been doing great since the early days, as a Canadian broadcast from 14 March 2006 can attest.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I think I have a good
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 09:47 ET by troglodytI think I have a good impression of your prejudices and resentments against europe. You must have had an intolerable nanny.
Actually there was no cheap shot at Iraq. I was rather pointing out the obvious, that the costs of the war and the subsequent occupation, have been quite a stretch for the American budget and would have been (or will be in the case of an invasion of Iran) not bearable for european countries (considering a serious financing and not paying it by indebting the whole country and future generations).
Ingratitude
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:48 ET by UnsaneSlick, editing your original post like that...
I'm showing you that many Europeans are ingrates. And that many of those ingrates are in positions of leadership.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Sorry for editing but I
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:55 ET by troglodytSorry for editing but I found it to hard in retrospect. So for everyone my comment was:
And that's why we are supposed to hail to america?
No, euro-trash,
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 21:29 ET by BO STINKSthat's why you should pay us back the trillions of dollars we gave to you! Then you would sort of sound sane when you criticise us. But, apparently, arrogant, no-nothing trash doesn't repay the money they owe their betters.
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams
If you are lamenting about
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 09:11 ET by troglodytIf you are lamenting about the marshall-plan, I think the amount of debt the US has in Europe makes it even. Besides I could start talking about how the main benficiary of this was the US itself, but I think you are not open for a discussion.
"they owe their betters."
And you talk about being arrogant.
Trog - being humble and generous has gotten the
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 16:20 ET by BO STINKSUS nowhere. About time we were arrogant and self-protective.
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams
So we are over-estimating
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:27 ET by BDSo we are over-estimating Holdren? Is that what you mean by over estimating the scandalous?
OF Course You Would
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:28 ET by Dim BulbI'd rather think you overestimate the scandalous in this scandal.
Of course you would! That is, after all, what global warming is all about: wishful thinking bolstered up by lies and fraud.
And I imagine from your
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:44 ET by marvlAnd I imagine from your reference point-- in the dark, in a very large hole underground, with a hockey stick up your behind --everything must surely seem distorted and overwrought.
The last time a scandal of this magnitude tainted science, the Catholic Church was the perpetrator and the scientist being censured was Galileo.
The only things lacking to properly indentify John Holdren are a bright red habit and some comfy pillows.
Oh please scale it down.
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:26 ET by troglodytOh please scale it down. Galileo?
troglodyt, Fine then, Piltdown Man
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:00 ET by upcountrywaterYour euro pals
Piltdown Man, which had been exhibited for the previous 40 years or so, was then hurriedly removed from the British Museum.
State controlled health care ! music
much better comparison. And
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 09:22 ET by troglodytmuch better comparison. And still evolution is the acceepted theory (so accepted that you can call it a consensus).
Consensus
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:31 ET by UnsaneBut you CAN'T call it a consensus. Consensus is the creature of politics and parliaments, NOT science. When I am down to two red and two green M&Ms, I do not run around seeking a consensus to determine how many total M&Ms I have left.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
If you don't want to call it
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:59 ET by troglodytIf you don't want to call it consensus, it's fine with me. Nonetheless that is what the overwhelming majority of biologists think to be the best possible explanation.
Science
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 17:36 ET by UnsaneGreat. Science is also not a popularity contest or subject to a vote. And "the majority of scientists believe theory X" is NOT a guarantee against being dead wrong. Five hundred years ago, the majority of scientists believed in the Ptolemaic model. It took Copernicus, then Kepler, then Galileo, then Newton to finally take it down. Scientists were at that point wrong for about 2500 years. And still many fought the idea of a heliocentric solar system.
Global warming caused by man to me is a theory, and nothing more. And the theory has not been proven...except in the minds of those who want to kill science, turn it into dogma, and otherwise use it as a tool to promote their political agenda (hence the use of words like "consensus" and the mysterious change of the name of the theory from "global warming" to the incredibly vague "climate change").
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I think you want to pick a
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 09:15 ET by troglodytI think you want to pick a fight where I am not disagreeing with you. At least concerning the majority contest part.
You're right. Okay, how
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 15:28 ET by marvlYou're right. Okay, how about the 1972 scandal perpetrated by Professor Doofus Wingate of Oxford that troglodytes were literate? It has been disproven many times since.
Where are the emoticons when you need them?
You asked me on page 3 what
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:56 ET by danboYou asked me on page 3 what would convince me.
To make it easier I moved my response to here. So others could read it also.
What might sway me.
1. Prove, there is warming. Satellite data shows no warming for the last 10 years. There was probably warming in the 20th century in response to the little ice age, but there's so much manipulation of data it's hard to tell how much and where and when. (Open the books) This one should be the easiest. But todays case in point. New Zealand from their website. Vrs New Zealand unadjusted. (Thanks to Wattsup.
2 Prove that the warming in the 20th century was unusual. In geology and archaeology there is much evidence of warmer periods. They have to prove this is unusual. This is part of the problem exposed in these emails. Truncating data and using small sample size is a problem for them. And splicing different types of data together to create a false image to "hide" something, is unethical.
3 If the warming is unusual. Prove this warming is caused mainly by green house gases. 20th century R^2 for CO2/tempertures is all over the place from high coorelations in the 90's to minimal in the 30's, (when temps went up) to negative post WWII. (Remember coorelation is not proof of causality. There are 4 possible explanations for coorelations.) There are a number of variables and combinations of variables that can cause warmth. Just saying there were eliminated doesn't make it so. There is much to indicate that the ocieanic oscilations are a stronger driver of climate than CO2. And they were on warm from the late 70's to late 90's. One paper that it looks like was produced during a compromised peer review process doesn't make it that the sun has been eliminated as a cause of warming.
4. Prove it's a big deal. Prove that any warming due to CO2 will be great, and has a serious impact. We know the true danger is cooling. What will make what is normally in natural cycles benificial a problem. But you have to do 1, 2, and 3 first.
That's what will sway me.
These emails indicate that some scientist manipulated data, they subverted the peer review process, they stood in the way of an open review of the data, they purpousfully ignored and hid contradictory data and that they overstated the evidence.
Otherwise AGWing is on a great footing.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Sorry I've already posted on
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:04 ET by troglodytSorry I've already posted on page 3.
1. you side stepped. this
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:33 ET by danbo1. you side stepped. this the easiest. And the one I'm most willing to conceed. The big problem is both NASA/GISS and cru are both adjusting. We know GISS in the last few years adjusted historical records downward.
2. You side stepped. Yes I agree we don't know the temps from 1000-1300. Nether does Mann. But we do know the temps even with adjustded data since 1960. That's your problem and Manns. So you can't prove that this warm spell is unusual. Thank you.
3 Thank you I'm glad you acknowledge the variability in R^2 is due to other variables. There fore this is a complex system. Infra red radiation is only one variable. So you can't prove 3.
4 Yep it is difficult to prove.Because you can't prove a rate of warming.
Now a question for you. I answered yours.
What will it take to convince you that a lot of AGWers are less than truthfull?
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Good work, Danbo!
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:43 ET by NL207You've pulled this trog's underwear over his head for him. I am largely amused.
If the basis of your
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 09:47 ET by troglodytIf the basis of your argueing is that the data is not reliable, I can't argue with you. But then you shouldn't be so convinced that AGW is not happening, because you don't have reliable data to confirm your position. What a delicious vicious circle.
Let's see. Mann's research
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 10:37 ET by danboLet's see. Mann's research had already been shown to be questionable and based of poor statistical methods. GISS has been issued an intent for court for failure to respond to FOIA. Cru emails indicate they they manipulated data, subverted the peer review process, overstated their evidence, and attempted to sidestep FOI and outside review..
Yep I have a lot of reason to have faith in the data coming out of these folks.
In case you missed it. I am a skeptic. They've failed to convice me of the steps I posted before.
They've failed to convince me the 20th century was unusually warm.
They've failed to convice me that a possible warming at the end of the 20th century was predominately caused by greenhouse gas. Nor that any greenhouse gas is anything more than a minor issue.
I would add. They've failed to convince me their methods are capable of predicting the future. There is no reason to rejecyt the null hypothesis.
Being I don't know what will happen tomorrow. Next time I hear a schizophrenic tell me when the world will end. I will start preparing.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
But on what reliable data do
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 10:39 ET by troglodytBut on what reliable data do you base your conviction that nothing unusual is happening? That is what you believe, isn't it?
Just an Appetizer
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 11:50 ET by dboBut on what reliable data do you base your conviction that nothing unusual is happening?
Just for starters...(CRU's own data).
If you trust a nonlabeled
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 07:58 ET by troglodytIf you trust a nonlabeled graph from some climate sceptics site, well...
Trog....
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 08:54 ET by Timothy HHere is what we do know. The earth has been warmer than it is now. Crops were grown in Greenland. In 2006, barley was harvested in Greenland for the first time since the 1500's. This was a major alert for man made global warming merchants. But, left out of the argument was the point that barley WAS harvested by Norse colonies in Greenland during the 1500s. Yes, I know it was related to, but it was not considered.
Think about that point for a moment. No man made warning occurred then. So then, it was natural, was it not? All of this hysteria is based on models that assume what the temperatures were prior to the 1950s (when balloon temperatures began being taken for consistency because the instrumental recording of temperatures was admittedly inconsistent) based on "educated guesses" of inconsistently recorded instrumental temperature records that only began in 1850. All previous data is loosely based on more "educated guesses" based on soil and core samples.
Now, please consider that the models are based on the accuracy of these samples, and when you are dealing with fractions of a degree, as we are in this case, slight miscalculations mean big problems with the models.
Once upon a time, the "scientific consensus" was that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe, that atoms were the smallest particles, and that there were only four elements (earth, fire, wind and water). My big question is, Why is data being coerced if actual proof is just a formality?
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
Everybody who is
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 12:16 ET by troglodytEverybody who is researching in this field does know about Greenland. Actually it's getting boring to talk about that again and again. What they are concerned and what they are modelling are global mean temperatures. They don't say the earth is warming everywhere.
The relevant data for climate scientists is only in part due to direct measurments taken by humans a hundred years ago. Besides having inaccuracies in say a thousand weather stations, can still give you a very good mean value (as long as those inaccuracies are independent from one another and in the same range).
Trog....
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 21:16 ET by Timothy HWhile non-speculative fact may get boring, it becomes no less relevant. Boredom is a poor excuse for ignorance, as well as a very poor red herring to divert from the question at hand. Was that warming period, which is not disputed by either side, man-made? Climate change advocates love to change the scope of vision once previously accepted positions are discredited, but what has never been discredited is that the only PROVEN form of global warming on a planetary scale is natural, not man made.
One thing that your dismissal failed to note was that these variations cannot be quantified as upwards or downwards, nor can they be honestly characterized as "within....range". Additionally, the models aren't based on simple calculations made by a couple of brainiacs in a lab, but by supercomputers that only project an idea of relativity, based on the subjective outcomes it was programmed to project. All of these factors, from variation to calculation to programming (which my family has been involved in since computers took up warehouses and had less power than your digital watch) make for a beautifully presented but inherently flawed (as we have seen over the past 30 years) model.
Dismissal does little else but cast the dismisser in a skeptical light.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
If you trust a nonlabeled
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 10:05 ET by dboIf you trust a nonlabeled graph from some climate sceptics site, well...
This graph is official HadCrut3 data which was used in IPCC AR 4. Mind you, you did reliable data...
Ok they took a graph which
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 12:02 ET by troglodytOk they took a graph which actually shows warming then split it into two then put them side by side to show that there is similarity in development. And that is proving what again? That warming isn't occuring?
Bazillion-fold increase in CO2 emission from 1895-2008
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 12:29 ET by dboAnd that is proving what again?
Sorry, I didn't think it was that complicated. Maybe you forgot your original question.You asked if there was any unusual warming. I thought this was climate alarmism 101.The graph even asks which warming is nature and which is anthropogenic. The reason it splits into 51 year periods is because IPCC AR 4 chapter 9 uses the last 50 year period to show how warming is man-made. As usual with the IPCC they provide no evidence, just a lot of talk in the SPM.
"The reason it splits into
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 12:55 ET by troglodyt"The reason it splits into 51 year periods is because IPCC AR 4 chapter
9 uses the last 50 year period to show how warming is man-made."
Well I didn't find the graph in the IPCC report. And I'm not sure where you are going with your arguments. They didn't base their claims solely on that data set. I think you have to clarify your objections.
Gatekeeper Phil
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 21:30 ET by dboI didn't say that the actual chart was in AR 4, I said that the IPCC uses the last 50 year period to show how warming is man-made. This is the marquee statement From AR4 that has alarmists buzzing:
Indeed in Table SPM.2 it describes the last half century as "typically post 1960". Numerous times in AR 4 there are references to "last 50 years" and "past half century" and so on. This is obviously because it was approximately 50 years ago when CO2 emissions really started to grow exponentially.
You said:
Since Phil "I will keep them out (of AR4) even if we have to redefine what peer-review literature is" Jones' own data shows two 50 year periods with almost exactly matching trends despite the fact that one has massively dramatic more CO2 than the other, I think it's safe to say that we have "reliable data that nothing unusual is happening". Keep in mind also that this is Phil "the gatekeepers" adjusted data. He's already admitted that he destroyed the original data and that more recent temperatures have been adjusted higher than in the past. It's reasonable to assume the the first 50 year period actually had a sharper increase than the second 50 year period. Do you actually believe that in the 5 billion year history of the planet that this last 50 year incline (or 100 for that matter) is unusual?
Btw, since data destoyer Phil is author of many IPCC chapters, (Gee...is there any possible conflict of interest here?) you'll probably find various similar charts in TAR and AR4. I quickly checked and found one in AR4, chapter 3, page 242.
"[...]Jones' own data shows
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 10:06 ET by troglodyt"[...]Jones' own data shows two 50 year periods with almost exactly matching
trends despite the fact that one has massively dramatic more CO2 than
the other, I think it's safe to say that we have "reliable data that
nothing unusual is happening".
Now you extrapolate from two similar trends that nothing unusual is happening, although the data shows an absolute increase in temperature? If that is meant to be serious consideration of data, well I don't know what to say.
That they have numerous references to the last fifty years you explained yourself. But they do consider what happened before and they are doing it in large scales (ten thousands of years).
Hopeless Charlie Brown, completely hopeless
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:21 ET by dboNow you extrapolate from two similar trends that nothing unusual is
happening, although the data shows an absolute increase in temperature?
But they do consider what happened before and they are doing it in large scales (ten thousands of years).
It appears you're having an extremely difficult time comprehending a period of time that has rapidly expanding man-made CO2 emissions (last 50 years as the IPCC states) vs periods that have little or absolutely zero man-made CO2 emissions. But heh, I'm interested. Since the burden of proof is on the warmers to prove their hypothesis, lets see some of your "reliable data" to show that something "unusual" is happening in the climate. As I asked before, do you really think in the 5 billion year history of the planet that something unusual has happened in the last 50 years?
Whine
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 17:38 ET by UnsaneThis whine from one who resorts to totally unbiased sources, like the IPCC, Greenpeace, and "real"climate.org, among others...no doubt.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
→ Troglodike
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 12:16 ET by Cool ArrowYou can't even cite the "unusual happening" to which you refer.
Just because you know all the words to "Big Rock Candy Mountain" doesn't mean it's so.
You need to go back and learn some new songs. Burl Ives is dead.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
You have no reliable data
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 18:16 ET by danboDouble post
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
You have no reliable data
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 18:15 ET by danboYou have no reliable data to prove or even seriously support that something unusual is happening.
Therefore, there is no reason to believe anything unusual is happening. I do not have to prove anything, there is no reason to reject the null hypothesis.
It is in the hands of these people who have shown they manipulate data, subvert the peer review process, hide data and ignore inconvient data. They and you have failed.
Enough said.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
I suspect, that everything I
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 08:10 ET by troglodytI suspect, that everything I would call unusual you call natural climate change. What exactly is your null hypothesis and what facts are proving it to be right? That mankind is not influencing the climate?
Data
Sat, 11/28/2009 - 19:01 ET by UnsaneHere is a small hint: let your data guide your research and not the other way around.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
But concerning the New
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:24 ET by troglodytBut concerning the New Zealand thing: Obviously the unadjusted graph has some flaws. The guy on this website is admitting that.
Ghee the blogger admitted
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:38 ET by danboGhee the blogger admitted there were flaws. He didn't say he would rather destroy the data than release it?
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
No, he basically said that
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 09:13 ET by troglodytNo, he basically said that he believed something he should have thought about a little longer. Something I'd suggest to many people posting here.
Ghee. He should have used
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 09:23 ET by danboGhee. He should have used the trick to hide. That's the way professional scientist do it.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
You might want to consider
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 15:36 ET by marvlYou might want to consider studies and predictions from those qualified to make them, such as Richard Lindzen of MIT. See here, for example: http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/co2_re...
I have the greatest respect
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 16:06 ET by danboI have the greatest respect for Richard Lindzen. The man has sought the truth and the villify him.
I'm ok with giving them 1. But why do they need to manipulate it? That doesn't look good And is hard to trust anything else they say.
They lost me with number 2.
But hey the fact that they've been caught lying, no big deal. It means nothing.
Sorry if I'm angry. Science is important to me. I respect it. And I get angry the way people abused it.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
If he is qualified to make
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 10:14 ET by troglodytIf he is qualified to make assessments, he shouldn't misconstrue what his opponents are saying (assuming he is agreeing with the report you linked):
From the report
"Since 1980 temperature has risen at only 2.5 °F (1.5 °C)/century, not the 7 F° (3.9 C°) the IPCC imagines. Pages 7-9."
The IPCC imagines 7 F° in its worst case scenario (page 23) that is assuming rapid growth and fossil intensive energy production. The number is well in the range of most predictions but not in that with constant year 2000 CO2 concentrations. And that was just for starting.
Question
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 13:36 ET by UnsaneMars has mostly CO2. So why isn't it as hot as, say, Venus?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
hm, a thinner atmosphere?
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 14:00 ET by troglodythm, a thinner atmosphere? What is that thread evolving into? Do you believe that it is impossible for us to influence the earths athmosphere and subsequently the climate?
There might be hope
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 17:49 ET by UnsaneGood, you can think critically after all.
Sure, Mars has a thinner atmosphere, but it mostly consists of CO2. The way the global arming religionists act, that place should be a hothouse even so. Oh, and they ALL love to point to Venus, which, yes, has an atmosphere that is mostly CO2 - but they forget that Venus has a thicker atmosphere, and they also can't explain why those atmospheric formations that prevent me and everyone else from seeing the surface of Venus could have a little something to do with the fact that the surface temps there are 800 degrees F.
That, and I make some pretty weird observations all the time. For instance, when visiting San Antonio - a city that rarely gets snow - here I was driving north from the south side of the city, when a car passed me - it was covered in snow. As it turned out, that night, it snowed quite heavily south and east of town, in an event that is even rarer for them.
Now, call me crazy, but I figure that in an atmosphere that is warming, such phenomena should in fact become rarer.
Not to mention, scientists where shrieking in 1984-1988 that we had 20-30 years to go and something (no one dares say what) had to be done IMMEDIATELY or we would all die from the great global catastrophe. Humanity is doing just fine in 2009 and many scientists and puppets like you are screaming that we have 20-30 years to go and something has to be done IMMEDIATELY or we will all die. So forgive me if I am now at an age where I am skeptical and feel like I have seen this movie before.
Can humanity infulence the atmosphere and subsequently the climate? Sure - if we have the ability to impact the temperature of that great thing everyone is forgetting about - the oceans. But I don't see us installing heating coils underneath all the oceans to accomplish this...
Oh, save it. I have been to the Arctic and watched the ice come ashore in July, an event which heralds the expansion of the ice pack for another winter.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
"Now, call me crazy, but I
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 09:33 ET by troglodyt"Now, call me crazy, but I figure that in an atmosphere that is warming, such phenomena should in fact become rarer."
That seems to be the impression of many sceptics and is simply wrong. What everyone is talking about is a statistical mean and nobody says that the variance is decreasing. That is by the way the reason they switched from global warming to climate change (imho). The former was simply misunderstood, as everybody thought they had to expect higher temperatures every day.
"Can humanity infulence the atmosphere and subsequently the climate?
Sure - if we have the ability to impact the temperature of that great
thing everyone is forgetting about - the oceans. But I don't see us
installing heating coils underneath all the oceans to accomplish
this... "
You don't have to heat the ocean, you just have to block the sun. Let every nuke explode and you should have the (not so) desired effect.
growing
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 09:49 ET by newstogodGrowing evidence this administration is over its head in dealing with the issues at hand. Scary to know these folks are in office. Their only apparent comfort zone is welfare in one form or another. They appear to be controlled by big leftist media moguls -- they are not real Americans in the traditional sense. I think the majority of blacks in America still consider themselves outsiders and those on the left encourage that thinking -- it clearly is evident in this government. Their disregard for the cost of anything simply says, they owe it to us. They have only lived on tax dollars and don't comprehend how the economy works. First time I have really feared for America in my 67 years.
Kids?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:52 ET by okiehawk44newstogod said: First time I have really feared for America in my 67 years.
Me too!
At the first of the year I feared for my grandkids and then it was my kids -- now it's me.
Evolving
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:08 ET by nadadhimmiHoldren and the uberlibs all speak of "evolving", evolving Constitution, species, scientific therory. Evolution is slow my friends. Scenario this: Senergetti Plain, the Wildebeast migration is long gone, A 110lb woman's Rover breaks down, no radio, cell batteries dead, no water. She walks for help. A hungry Lioness scents her, stalks and attacks. Yum Yum. Is the Lion species evolving?, yes. Is the woman still Lion poop? Yes. Moral: except for microorganisms, evolution takes a long ass time and you'd better not depend upon it.
This is huge and a gift from God (as Rush said)
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:12 ET by WorriedFox News cannot be blamed this time.
This is the Canadian press and will the W.H. ignore them or attack them? If I recall the leader of Canada is a liberal himself and will he attending Copenhagen?
Holdren is a sick freak and he is just like all other freaks in Obama's gang, including Obama.
Today being Thanksgiving I am not going to get as angry as I usually do each day but if this is not exposed as the fraud it is there will be hell to pay for the Democrats in power.
Someone needs to go tap
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:16 ET by ThisnThatSomeone needs to go tap Charlie Gibson on the shoulder and ask him: "Remember van Jones? Remember ACORN? Those are just the two most recent scandals Cable had to cover because you missed them. Here's another."
Or maybe Gibson has heard "footsteps" and knows how to keep his mouth shut?
__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song
Looks like the BBC sat on
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:18 ET by celatorLooks like the BBC sat on the story for six weeks. Nothing to see here, apparently.
"Climate change scandal deepens as BBC expert claims he was sent leaked emails six weeks ago"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230943/Climate-change-scandal-B...
Was there ever a better example of the famous phrase:
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." Sir Walter Scott
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
One thing we all know...
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:21 ET by ingram207...is that the MSM will skip whatever they freakin-well please, especially if it is critical of this President. The only time they will mention it is if it ends up being a hoax (which I don't think will happen, but I also never thought Health Care would have a chance to pass), and all they will say about it is, "Oh, today we have even more of a consensus!"
"The Swiss make this watch...they call it a Swatch." "Oh, good thing they didn't make it in Croatia."
Holdren was blinded by his
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:24 ET by motherbeltHoldren was blinded by his political views, which as his record
shows are frightening. One web site synthesizes his position on
over-population as follows, “Forced abortions. Mass sterilization. A
“Planetary Regime” with the power of life and death over American
citizens. -Dr. Ball
That's not the John Holdren I knew....President Obama
Or
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:28 ET by Worriedhe never said those things in front of me.
How About This
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:37 ET by Dim BulbI think it will go something like this: "Ahh...Let me be perfectly clear. I...ahh...I think John could have calibrated his words differently."
1984 Media
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 10:36 ET by srqvetBe happy, your chocolate ration has been increased.
First we were racists, then extremists/terrorists, and now deniers. What's next? Acceptors? I think not!!
You fools
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:11 ET by LibertydudeThis is obviously a right-wing anti-conspiracy, conspiracy.
George Bush wrote the e-mails, just to discredit the goracle and obama, praise be their names.
You fools, not to believe made up global warming. that's ok the state run media will show you. they WON'T cover it just to put you in your place.
You anti-man-made global warming ignoramasus-GORE OFF!!!!
How Dare You
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:50 ET by Dim BulbLibertydude, the next time you invoke the names of GORACLE and OBAMA (blessed may THEY be) you had better be sure to capitalize. Disrespect of THE ALL KNOWING ONES (blessed be THEY) will not be tolerated.
A very good editorial in my
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:16 ET by equusartsA very good editorial in my Canadian home paper today. The leftists are toast-they will never listen to reason. But there are still millions of independent thinkers who will. We just have to continue to get the truth out-the internet is a blessing when the MSM hides the deep corruption that all leads to Washington.
here is the link...
http://www.lfpress.com/comment/columnists/lorrie_goldstein/2009/11/26/11930206-sun.html
And Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends!
"Hypocrisy, the lie, is the true sister of evil, intolerance, and cruelty."
No "mainstream" media outlet on Earth is going to cover this
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:22 ET by R D HelmThis has never been about climate or the environment, but about global wealth re-distribution (as in America's) and global communism, and the world's media has pretty much been right there every step of the way, doing everything it can to support this lunacy.
They failed with Kyoto, but that isn't going to stop them, as they now have an ally in the White House who doesn't give a damn about America or its sovereignty, and in fact shares most of the same goals of the global communists.
They are too close to success to back off now.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
And who just stepped in to
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:25 ET by ThisnThatAnd who just stepped in to put his finger in the eye of Americans? The chief anti-American himself -- Obama. He knows the damage done by these e-mails, so instead of letting Copenhagan simply die, he steps in and revives it. Why would he do this, unless he recognizes how much he and his ilk are going to lose in the great wealth re-distribution scheme if these climate hucksters are shut up?
__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song
Liberals Really Do Like Death
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:42 ET by srqvetSince the GW alarmists would have us believe the planet is going to burn up and we will all drown in rising seas, one would think finding out this is not going to happen would be GOOD news. Instead, this good news is ignored by the LSM. Interesting.
Would this get a cookie?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:44 ET by CaringwhiteguyPJ - If I were an MSM reporter wanting to show how unbiased (in my own mind) I was and how aggressively (in my peers' minds) I was pursuing this story I'd ask something like this:
"Mr. President, recently a mischievious climate change denier illegally hacked into e-mail transmissions of highly-respected scientific leaders in an attempt to derail all the progress made toward saving our planet. How can we feel safe when such terroristic acts are aimed at the world's most prestigious academics?"
Would this get a cookie?
No Cookie For You
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:54 ET by Dim BulbYou would undoubtedly get a Pulitzer or a Peabody.
→ As I see it CWG
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:19 ET by Cool ArrowHaving grown up in Hawaii, and other Muslim countries, where the sweetest sound is the call to prayer, just before the daily beheadings, I can tell you that the climate changed dramatically when I moved to Chicago.
Let me just say the hacking terrorists acted stupidly. Growing up an Academia Nut at Harvard, I can tell you these scientists are intent on nothing less than presenting the American people, and indeed, the world, with a scenario heretofore seen only on movie screens.
I like to watch.
President Gardner
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
ⶼ Hawaii moslem?
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:27 ET by upcountrywaterLoud speakers are next, after this.
Islamists have just tricked the Hawaii Legislature into celebrating Islam on September 11.
Rest in this..
Hawaii has no Christianity Day, no Judaism Day, and no Buddhism Day-
I hate to say it, but CNN
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:12 ET by Paul Gdid a story on climategate during the situation room yesterday. They seemed to get most of the facts right. (left alot out though), but still skewed it as not a big story.
Question
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:15 ET by okiehawk44In 1973 John Holdren talking about America's population said: "210 million now [1973] is too many and 280 million in 2040 is likely to be much too many."
Holdren then went on for years proposing a wide variety of solutions including forced sterilization.
Q. How does Holdren square this fear of too many people in America (I think we're now close to or above 300 million with about 40 million of those here illegally) with his party's and Obama's continued encouragement for everyone in Mexico and elsewhere to relocate here and to bring their families?
This guy is a whack job who can't see the forest for the trees.
Crap
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 12:57 ET by 10ksnookerI ran out of popcorn. Got to make a run to renew the supply.
This is really getting delicious. By now, probably everyone has figured out, the whole of the world's climate databases are so crapped up that there is likely nothing useful in them anymore. The proved false AGW hypothesis is it's own undoing.
Of course smart people saw it for what it is from the start, a scam, junk science dressed up trying to guilt people into paying more taxes to governments -- Wealth transfer, from productive people to the unproductive dregs of the world. The downside, Obama's half brother living in the cardboard hut in Kenya is going to have to wait for his check, a long wait it will indeed be.
I'm not sure if we can call
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 15:23 ET by danboI'm not sure if we can call the theory of AGWing false yet.
Rather it demostrates that AGWing is far from settled. In fact an argument can be made that much if not most of it over the last 10 or more years have been based on a fradulet house of cards.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
So.....
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:07 ET by Candance MooreWhich side is living in denial right about now? The entire liberal establishment has basically stuck their fingers in their ears and gone "blah blah blah" hoping ClimateGate will soon pass so they can move on.
With all their pious talk about ending the war on science, they sure don't seem too interested in defending science now.
So to all the lefties here on NB, thanks for admitting through your silence that you'll believe in AGW with or without scientific proof, you're not interested in discussing the middle warm period, and when confronted with evidence you clam up faster than....a Holocaust denier.
It makes me wonder what other "settled science" is really a lie.
→ Excellent question
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:11 ET by Cool ArrowIsn't economics also a science?
Liberals also believe stealing from the prosperous is a marvelous way to stimulate economies.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Holdren is just another creep
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 13:08 ET by sevenObama has a fondness for dishonest creeps
Pushing science aside if it shames the leftist agenda.
His attempt to belittle Soon and Baliunas in front of colleagues is a measure of the man’s blindness and political opportunism that pervades everything he says or does.
Obama is having us fed "Science diet" dog food.
Dr. Salli Baliunas
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 14:44 ET by sherlock1I believe this is the same Dr. Baliunas who was involved in the observation of the Shoemaker-Levy comet that collided with Jupiter several years ago. I don't know what her exact involvement was, but she was featured in the live TV coverage as the lead investigator of the science team from JPL or the Space Telescope Institute, not sure which.
Obviously not a lightweight, hmmmm?
Maybe I'm just being a little slow here
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 14:50 ET by Edward LeeIt is Thanksgiving, after all, so maybe my minds on turkey. But, I don't see from the above how Holden is doing anything that should be described as "truculent and nasty". He offers his candid critique of Baliunas and Soon. Sure, he dips into the politics and legalisms, but that's what it's become. Forwarding it as "entertainment" is probably his way qualifying it as a digression from the more officious theme of their usual correspondence. I thought we were trying to encourage debate.
→ You're right
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 15:02 ET by Cool ArrowWe should expect our scientists, especially those who hold sway over decisions that affect the American economy, to skew falsify or hide results towards their predetermined result.
Yeah, we at the very least, need them to be honest about their subterfuge.
If "that's what it's become" maybe this mating ball of red-sided garter snakes needs to give itself another name other than "scientist"
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
It all comes down to one's baseline expectations
Thu, 12/03/2009 - 13:07 ET by Edward LeeI take it for granted that any political appointee of the Obama administration has joined a "mating ball of red-sided garter snakes" (great imagery) and will not be acting as a scientist, regardless of past positions. I re-read the original blog entry. I see a lot of Ball throwing mud at Holdren. Nonetheless, Holdren's quotes are appropriate for his present snake-like position. It is Jones, Mann, et al who are suppose to be acting as scientists, but are clearly part of a snake ball of their own incestuous making. That is the scandal.
A House Of Cards For Brian Williams And The Gang
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 16:09 ET by rammingspeedIt isn't whether AGW is right or wrong. (I think it's baloney, but whatever.) The problem is the mainstream news media's absolute refusal to even discuss the email situation. If Brian Williams and the rest of the crew think there's nothing to Climategate, then they should be merrily debunking it on a daily basis. Their silence is monstrous arrogance. But people are catching on, and there will be dual consequences for the left wing press: A further realization by the people that they've been had by political tyrants, and the fact that the "news" organizations (save those we know about) in the US are utterly corrupt. That means, they sink more rapidly toward extinction. Or, reformation, which Fox News has already begun.
REALLY.... newsbusters
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 22:11 ET by LibertydudeI hope your headline is sarcastic. Of Course MSM will ignore this... Really...
So will ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN. All the state-run media will ignore this. Goebels would be proud.
And PBS, I would like to know why I'm paying for that.
Obama's TRUE value
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 23:45 ET by riverratObama's election has proven to have some real value, after all.
1. His election confirmed that Black Racism prevails though most of America's black population.
2. His election confirmed the Democrat party as being no more democratic that the Nazi Party was..... Today's Democrats are Socialists at best and Marxist in behavior.
3. His election with the Democrats in control of both houses of Congress - proved that the Democrats can not be trusted with total power.. They've spent us into outrageous and histroric debt and attempting to tax everything that produces wealth or jobs - proving them incompetent to manage an economy or a nation.
4. Obama's and the DNC's far too close and unsavory connections to ACORN and the Unions have shown how little integrety and honesty remains in politics...
So then -- Obama's election COULD turn out to be a good thing if folks will see the harm it has done and NEVER repeat that mistake again or trust those "folks" again.
It is my hope that with Obama - blacks and the Leftists in America have "jumped the shark"...
riverrat---
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 14:17 ET by matthewdeanEvery word you say is true.
However, those words will never be restated, or believed, by Dems, Libs, or racist Blacks.
MD
"There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress."
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Climate gate
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 00:06 ET by sevenThe new word climategate is 7 days old. It first appeared on a blog wattsupwiththat
Now many of us know the science czar had his hand deep in the fraud. Smells ripe after 7 days.
A Cookie?
Fri, 11/27/2009 - 18:19 ET by pbthinkerIf you'll make them an oatmeal cookie, I'll personally make them a Neiman-Marcus cookie, in fact I might even give them 2. Brian Williams, you could offer him Ruth's Chris and he wouldn't ask it, he's so in the tank.
Election 2008-God's way of showing us that elections count.