Economists can argue back and forth in the media about the effect of big government programs such as the stimulus package and Obamacare but few things have illustrated government waste as effectively as this disturbing YouTube video in which a well running Volvo engine was destroyed as part of the Cash for Clunkers program. This video is currently going viral on the Web and has sparked outraged comments from many people whom I suspect have previously remained somewhat uninterested in the often elusive topic of economics. However, the wasteful destruction of this car seems to have awakened an economic sense of revulsion to an extent rarely seen before.
Here is a sampling of their YouTube comments which are in sharp contrast to the glowing praise of the Cash for Clunkers program prevalent in the MSM:
What a criminal waste of useful cars AND our tax dollars!!! (Actually, not even OUR tax dollars - it's all borrowed!!!)
The stupid Obummer Logic that spends BILLIONS on destroying usable cars will take cause the prices for decent used cars to skyrocket by removing hundreds of thousands from the market.
All to please some environmental nutcases who believe The Little People should drive around in tiny little clown cars!What a f----in waste! I know lots of college kids, young professionals and even high school kids that need dependable cars. I cannot believe my tax dollars is funding this program! If the government is so concerned about fuel economy then how about putting more effort into educating driver on fuel saving driving habits like use cruise control, have all the maintenance in the manual completed on time, change the fluids such as oil on time, rotate the tires, etc. What a waste.
Only in the F----ing US of A can a government be as stupid as to allow people to waste perfectly good cars for a few dollars!!! I am utterly mad and disgusted!!! I am mad, fuming even!!! There are no words to describe the way I feel about this waste of taxpayers money and the huge net environmental waste that results from this nonsense. It's f----ing criminal!!!
I seriously cannot believe anyone would be stupid enough to destroy a beautifully built, extremely safe, long-lived late-model car like an S80.
Destroying cars some poor person could be using to get to work. The instigators of this whole program should be up on a human rights abuse charge, not to mention polluting the environment when destroying the cars
Hell this car should've been donated or sold or given to a church or help a needy family! You people are sick and just as greedy as those who started the recession!!
That was just STUPID!! Why not dismantle the car - sell it's parts - and GIVE the money to food banks and battered women shelters or whatever. And I'm sure there HAS TO BE some environmental concerns with all that smoke - does there not? What morons came up with this ideas?
What a waste of a good volvo. I would like to know what vehicle the owner replaced it with.
Probably no vehicle as yet since the Cash for Clunkers program ran out of money and the government computers handling these transactions have seized up worse than that Volvo engine. Back to the comments, many of which are from foreigners who can't believe how stupid Americans have become in the Age of Obama:
Damn it, I would've been ECSTATIC to own that car! Got a 93 Crown Vic right now with one of those damned AODE transmissions. I'd love to work out a deal with a dealership so I could trade my TRUE clunker in for one of these perfectly good cars, 80% of which are being sold to China of all places for the steel.
Barack Obama is going to destroy this nation. This Volvo is 4 years newer than my car, and I use it every single day with no problems!
What will this do to the used car market? How will students to buy a cheap cap? Insanity!Watch the Bernanke video where he can't answer a single question about where half a TRILLION dollars went. Obama and his minions have no clue what they are doing. They will to wreck this economy and ruin our standard of living for generations if not once and for all.
Obama is insane. America is doomed. If you love cars, this is like watching a baby being strangled to death. Just horrible. We have more oil in Alaska, in the shal and off the coasts than the Saudis do. Yet we are dooming our economy for this cult of "green". How will students afford a cheap car for school? Yet anoher insane disruption of the markets by Obama & Co., who belong teaching Marxist theory in school and not actually running a REAL economy. I can't believe Americans elected this idiots.
Stupid americans deserve to be bankrupt.
Killing a good machine like that for a small amount of money.What a waste of resorces with an incredible ecological footprint.
I couldn't even finish watching that. This dealer is obviously bad at math. Why wouldn't they just give the customer the credit out of pocket and keep the car to re-sell? That Volvo is worth at least 9-12 thousand dollars. Destroying a perfectly good engine and probably the transmission too? So wasteful.
Stupid Americans. Why destroy a fine car? Why the hell do I save energy and seperate green waste if these people act so incredibly irresponsible. Bweh! This Volvo is a hero.
Polution, gas wasted, recycled parts destroyed and then what if these idiot dealers don't get the government money. EPA will love the oil spills too.
Ruining a perfect fuel-effecient car for no good reason. Unresponsible, stupid. Another great example of terribly policy-making. People laughing about this are obviously mentally undeveloped as well, as you don't see what the consequences of this kind of behavior on mass scale are. Idiots.
Holy crap, I know some of the Americans laws are a litle bit crazy, but this is absolutely stupid, 2 say the least... what a complete waste...
disgusting waste of perfectly good cars and a complete abuse of political power. Just look at the perfectly good cars lined up to be destroyed - why not auction them for charity, or if you're really trying to help people - give them to people who can't afford cars. Thanks Obama, you're flushing what's left of our country completely down the sh!tter.
I have a good idea. Let's let the same people that created this program - which went bankrupt in a week and literally destroys wealth (as you see above) - run our health care system. Whadayathink?
There are many more such comments on this video at YouTube and growing since this viral video has struck a chord in a way that abstract economic arguments have not. Ironically, the dealer who destroyed that Volvo probably has received no cash yet since the Cash for Clunkers program has run out of money and the government computers for handling these transactions are all down.
And the MSM is calling this program a popular success?
—P.J. Gladnick is a freelance writer and creator of the DUmmie FUnnies blog.
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Comments Policy
Isn't that the whole point...?
August 2, 2009 - 08:23 ET by superconIf the govt. buys a clunker to get it off the street and then they sell it as used then it goes right back on the street.
The goal of the program as I see it isn't efficiency but to remove an aging fleet and replace it with newer more efficient cars.
It's sort of the same as when the govt. encourages you to buy a new refrigerator and gives you a credit. The old fridge goes on the sidewalk and get's crushed.
If people are reallty concerned about what happens to the cars after they are sold then they should sell it privately. Nothing is stopping them from doing that. Dealership always offer money for a trade.
The enticing part I would think about the program is that the buyer can get more money in the clunker program. The rebate is often enhanced by a dealer subsidy too. Now someone may be getting much more than the clunker was worth. The auto that was shown in the video is not what I would call a clunker and someone could certainly get a better price for it than $ 4,500. The program is for old beat up junk boxes as I understand it.
From what I have been hearing about the program the problems with it are how the new car purchases are qualified, how difficult it is to get re-imbursed and the complicated process of destroying the clunker.
" if Republicans are able to stop Barack Obama on health care, 'it will be his Waterloo, it will break him...." -Sen. Jim DeMint
you would think, supercon
August 2, 2009 - 08:27 ET by candanceThe program is for old beat up junk boxes as I understand it.
Just because they call it Cash for Clunkers doesn't mean they are buying clunkers. The program is all about taking inefficient cars off the roads, so the rules are it has to be in good running condition, otherwise it wouldn't be on the road. You have to prove that you kept the car insured for a continuous year and that all registration is current.
You also have to consider, the program is only available to those with the means of buying a new car. You can't show up with low income and bad credit and expect the government to help you out. It's basically just a coupon the government offers on new car purchases. You have to buy a new (08, 09, or 10) car from a dealership and you have to have the credit to do so on your own.
Poor people who drive real, actual clunkers cannot afford to upgrade this drastically or pay the added insurance and taxes to own a new car.
This program is attracting driveable cars by default.
The goal of the program as
August 2, 2009 - 09:03 ET by motherbeltThe goal of the program as I see it isn't efficiency but to remove an aging fleet and replace it with newer more efficient cars.
And what about young people buying their first car, who can't afford a newer, more efficient one? Tough Twinkies?? Walk until they can afford a Prius? Yes, that's hyperbole, but it illustrates that the government doesn't care how it affects real people, as long as their holier-than-thou standards are met.
What's wrong with running those clunkers into the ground, one first-car buyer after another? Let them disappear by attrition. That's not good enough for Government. In their view, better someone have no car at all, rather than an inefficient one!
But, as Annn-drea Mitchell said the other day regarding health care, a lot of time people don't know what's best for them.
And as someone else said, I forget who, let's not ask the children (citizens) to make the decisions instead of the parents (government).
G'morning MB.
August 2, 2009 - 09:31 ET by superconThe point of the program is to remove old cars from the road isn't it? The program may not be for everybody but isn't that true with all govt. programs.
A young kid can buy a used car anytime he can scrape up $1,000. No one is stopping him. The program is voluntary isn't it? The downside of the program as I have read is that it may reduce the used car market and make the price of parts go up. You have to keep in mind however that won't happen unless many Americans participate. Apparently there are some people who do in fact like the program. It gives them a chance to trade up.
You say "And what about young people buying their first car, who can't afford a newer, more efficient one? Tough Twinkies??" That story is as old as the automobile itself. My first car was a 1971 Delta 88. I paid $400 for it and it had baloney skins for tires. To me it was the Millenium Falcon and I was Capt. Solo.
" if Republicans are able to stop Barack Obama on health care, 'it will be his Waterloo, it will break him...." -Sen. Jim DeMint
wait...
August 2, 2009 - 09:40 ET by candanceI thought the point of the program was to stimulate new car purchases by appealing to those with the means to take on that much debt.
You have to keep in mind however that won't happen unless many Americans participate.
The program ran out of money in a week because it's such a runaway success and thousands are participating.
If the point of the program is to get old cars off the road, then that necessarily means cheap used cars will be GONE FROM THE ROADS and you will no longer be able to buy one.
I'm stunned by the pretzel logic people are using with this. It will make used cars obsolete, but you'll still be able to drive them, the program is a smashing success, but they're really not destroying that many cars. Seriously folks...
The number of used cars may shrink that is true.
August 2, 2009 - 10:02 ET by supercon"If the point of the program is to get old cars off the road, then that necessarily means cheap used cars will be GONE FROM THE ROADS and you will no longer be able to buy one."
Don't worry. There will be plenty left.
The number of cars in the U.S is close to 200 million.
" if Republicans are able to stop Barack Obama on health care, 'it will be his Waterloo, it will break him...." -Sen. Jim DeMint
Democrats never think that
August 2, 2009 - 11:06 ET by kgDemocrats never think that far ahead. Unintended consequences always bite them in the a$$. A car worth $4500 is NOT a clunker. A much better idea would be to offer those cars in an even swap for a real clunker to people who need a newer car. Most people driving clunkers can never afford a new car.
"DumbAssity of Dope"
"A much better idea would be
August 4, 2009 - 16:01 ET by GrannyGrump42"A much better idea would be to offer those cars in an even swap for a real clunker to people who need a newer car. Most people driving clunkers can never afford a new car. "
AMEN TO THAT!
I know people who live in areas with no (or very poor) public transportation who simply can't get jobs because they can't get reliable cars. And here they are being trashed instead of being used to get people off welfare.
As for the "Take public transportation!" The buses only run hours that are convenient for office workers. The people who work at the mall can't take public transit because they either start their shifts before the first bus run of the day, or end their shifts after the last bus run of the day. Factory workers, hospital workers, home health aides, etc., often can't get to and from work on public transit. And these cars that would open up a world of possible employment opportunities to poor people are being trashed by sanctimonious creeps who don't care who they hurt, as long as they get pats on the back from their socialist buddies.
Isn't it funny how
August 4, 2009 - 14:59 ET by 10ksnookerThe Democrats always hurt the poor? The 'clunkers' have to be running and registered. That means that most of the parts work and at the very least the manufacturers of refurbished parts will not see these parts to refurbish. In particular the drive train and engine, the most valuable used parts.
It's a huge waste for no return. It just means the poor will have to buy new, the new parts needed will have to be manufactured and the atmosphere will cover the costs of all the CO2 spent in the process.
What a waste of energy. Wouldn't a tax rebate be better, then you could buy what you want.
we need a czar of unintended consequences
August 2, 2009 - 08:17 ET by candancecause it's becoming a full time job to apologize for every stupid thing that comes out of DC these days.
C4C, let's see, only middle and upper class people had the means to take advantage of it, half the cars purchased come from Honda and Toyota, and in a few years the market for used cars will shrink considerably, which means poor people will suffer the most.
That's not even mentioning the fact that they thought a billion dollars would last six weeks and it was gone in six days. I'm so excited for the time when our annual healthcare budget is gone in three months and then Obama just shrugs and says "oops."
This would all be funny if it was in a Mel Brooks movie. I can't believe it's reality.
You're right, candance, it
August 2, 2009 - 09:11 ET by motherbeltYou're right, candance, it does seem like a Mel Brooks movie, but this government is becoming a parody of itself.
I'm so excited for the time when our annual healthcare budget is gone
in three months and then Obama just shrugs and says "oops."
Uh, let's see...what was the growth in Medicare supposed to amount to?
At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and
Means Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12
billion by 1990 (a figure that included an allowance for inflation).
This was a supposedly "conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare
actually cost $107 billion. - Reason Online Jan 1993.
I'll be surprised if the annual budget lasts three months!
You know what's funny? As I was typing the word "Medicare" I erred and typed "Medicars."
How's that for a Freudian slip?
There are no words to
August 2, 2009 - 08:26 ET by FirmwormThere are no words to describe the way I feel about this waste of taxpayers money and the huge net environmental waste that results from this nonsense. It's f----ing criminal!!!
Her is the summary paragraph from an article published in January at globalwarmingisreal.com (hard core global warming nuts).
If you simply must change your vehicle, be it for fuel efficiency or any other reason, one option is to simply buy a used car that gets better gas mileage than your existing one. There’s much to be said, from many environmental vantage points, about postponing replacement purchases—of anything, not just cars—to keep what’s already made out of the waste stream and to delay the additional environmental costs of making something new.
What a bunch of f*#%king morons.
Here's the link to the full text....
http://newsbusters.org/comment/reply/31852#comment_form
Sorry
August 2, 2009 - 08:29 ET by FirmwormHer's the link
http://www.globalwarmingisreal.com/blog/2009/01/05/earthtalk-rising-seas-and-buying-a-new-car-vs-keeping-a-well-maintained-used-car/
Another example of the "Law
August 2, 2009 - 09:14 ET by motherbeltAnother example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences"....they haven't even considered the damage done to the environment by junking all these old cars.
Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
Cash for Christians
August 2, 2009 - 08:32 ET by VinceP1974This Govt is just preparing the playing field and desensitizing the country for their real upcoming agenda item.
Cash for Christians and Jews
Vince, we were thinking the
August 2, 2009 - 08:41 ET by ThisnThatVince, we were thinking the same thing -- see my post below. Anybody who doesn't think this is possible doesn't know Obama.
I had no idea that Obama's cash for clunkers required the destruction of perfectly good cars. These cars were sacrificed at the alter of environmentalists. There's a much stronger group, though, including Daschle, who really do believe that old people need to be destroyed, just like the unborn are destroyed now.
___________________________________
Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having this surgery but taking the painkiller - Obamacare
Oh grow up
August 2, 2009 - 11:50 ET by DurdenThis type of ridiculous hatred only detracts from real criticism. Stop playing the victim and grow up.
Think this is bad?
August 2, 2009 - 08:38 ET by ThisnThatWait till Obamacare kicks in.
Citizen: Is this where I sign up for Obamacare?
Obamacare Center: Yes. Looks like you have your paperwork in order. Good. Do you have your trade-in ready?
Citizen: Yes. It's going to be difficult letting go, however. She's in good shape (as required) but getting a little inefficient, so I guess it's time.
Obamacare Center: Ok, just sign this release and we'll take over from here.
Citizen: Bye, Grandma. At least you'll know that I have affordable, Gov health care now.
Obamacare Center: (to Gov aid) - Ok, take Grandma into the clinic, and assign her a disposal number, date and time.....and we might as well take a video this time.
___________________________________
Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having this surgery but taking the painkiller - Obamacare
First they came for our babies, now our CARS?
August 2, 2009 - 08:41 ET by SickofLibsWhile I am not a hardcore gearhead, I almost cried at the three-minute mark.
One of the saddest, sickest effing things I've seen in a long time.
wait for it, sickoflibs...
August 2, 2009 - 08:51 ET by candanceJust wait for about five years from now, when one of your kids or grandkids graduates high school and tries to buy a safe used car - only to learn that there isn't any such thing as a safe used car anymore, and even if they find one, the replacement parts are so limited they might as well be gold.
It's either buy a prius or ride the city bus. That's where we are heading.
Candance:
August 2, 2009 - 09:03 ET by SickofLibsWhat really scares the sh*t out of me is that right now this wanton destruction for idealogy is not mandatory - you don't HAVE to buy a new car.
But how long before these maniacs enact some insane federal regulation that would prevent poeple from even registering an older vehicle?
another public "option"
August 2, 2009 - 09:20 ET by candanceI'm telling you, the ripple effects of this will be worse than what we intially see. They won't blatantly force us to do these things - but they will "accidentally" destroy inventories and create a situation where we end up with a single option.
<i>And the MSM is calling
August 2, 2009 - 08:54 ET by bazzarworld<i>And the MSM is calling this program a popular success?</i>
That's because it is? They ran out of cash because so many people took advantage of it. Dealers have seen more business this past week than they have in the past few months. The car markets were hurting, what's your alternative?
Also, there is something fishy about that video. That Volvo looks like it is newer and would easily be worth more than 4500 trade in. Therefore, there would be no incentive for someone to trade this vehicle in under the CfC program.
Thanks for posting the YouTube comments, because we know that the smartest collective minds of this world are people that post comments on YouTube.
Get your facts in line.
August 2, 2009 - 08:58 ET by ThisnThatGet your facts in line. $4500 is not the trade-in. It's the incentive. You add the trade-in to the $4500 to get the total.
Now that you have the facts, you're free to go back and completely re-edit your post.
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
Actually, get YOUR facts
August 2, 2009 - 09:00 ET by bazzarworldActually, get YOUR facts straight. You don't get a trade in value for your car when you use the CfC program. Some dealers are giving a small scrap value, but most aren't. Read this slowly: YOU DON'T GET A TRADE IN VALUE WHEN YOU GET THE $4500 CFC VOUCHER.
And there is nothing to
August 2, 2009 - 10:23 ET by pcantidoteAnd there is nothing to stop people from trading in a $10K car for the $4,500 credit on a new car. That is what is really happening here. Poor people just getting poorer and further into debt and dependence on the government. The libs are playing on the poor's desire to have a new car to advance their own narcissistic and elitist global warming agenda. But we are supposed to believe that the libs love the poor. They love to take advantage of them for their own political expediency. I want to throw up.
Enforce Term Limits if They Won't: Vote Against ALL Incumbents in 2010.
wait..what? Why would
August 2, 2009 - 11:52 ET by bazzarworldwait..what? Why would someone trade in a 10k car and use the 4,500 CfC
voucher (thus forfeiting their trade in value) when they could.....just
trade it in and get 10k for it? Are you really this dumb?
The CfC is an incentive for people that have cars worth at least less than $4500. Most of the 'clunkers' targeted for this program are junk suv's from the mid 90's that are worth maybe $500.
So i could go buy a
August 2, 2009 - 12:26 ET by red_dragon311So i could go buy a piece of junk for $500, and turn around and trade it is and get 4500 for it at a dealer????
FINALY A REAL CANDIATE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
http://zod2008.com/index.htm
don't think so
August 2, 2009 - 12:34 ET by American.Patriotyou have to have had the clunker both registered and insured for the last 12 months and have positive proof before you qualify.
But as previously pointed out, trade in a vehicle worth 10K and alls you get is the govt handout of 4.5K (at best)
Some people jst can't pass up a perceived bargan and free handout from the govt.
Poor dumb people being taken advantage of. Kind of sad, but dumb people do dumb things
ok well thats aliitel
August 2, 2009 - 12:38 ET by red_dragon311ok well thats aliitel better ...but by a little i mean like putting a band-aid will help a gun shot wound would help a little
FINALY A REAL CANDIATE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
http://zod2008.com/index.htm
I suggest you go look at
August 2, 2009 - 14:33 ET by pcantidoteI suggest you go look at the "clunkers" in a local dealers lot. Or just take a look at the volvo in the video.
Enforce Term Limits if They Won't: Vote Against ALL Incumbents in 2010.
I'm shocked. Government
August 2, 2009 - 09:10 ET by Jack BauerI'm shocked. Government gives away huge amounts of FREE taxpayer money and it's way more successful than anticiptated.
This is such a way out response, it's hardly surprising that all the geniuses in the Obama administration slash campaign never thought of that.
Obama: creepily making DUMB the new SMART.
a few questions for you, bazzar
August 2, 2009 - 09:12 ET by candanceThey ran out of cash because so many people took advantage of it.
Please explain how a program goes bankrupt in six days and the government did not see that coming?
The car markets were hurting, what's your alternative?
Ford and Honda both made profits last quarter without this program. And aside from that, qualifying used cars is a finite number that can't be quickly replenished. Six months from now when everyone who can take advantage of it has, what band aid will Congress come up with next?
That Volvo looks like it is newer and would easily be worth more than 4500 trade in.
Who says 4500 is all the discount they got? Chrysler was offering to double the payout, which brought the total up to 9,000. Other dealers offered similar discounts to enhance the savings. If you think this video is staged, why would someone destroy a valuable car just for the chance to embarrass the government? Either give us a more compelling reason to believe the video is misleading, or admit that you are speculating to protect your side.
This is absolutely shocking.
August 2, 2009 - 08:58 ET by ghost of Mary Jo KopechneWhat waste. I don't think I am going to make it three more years. The left wing kook fringe is running the country.
Support Our Troops. God bless the military.
http://adoptaplatoon...
You will make it
August 2, 2009 - 09:53 ET by general companyWecome to group therapy. : ]
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Insanity?
August 2, 2009 - 08:59 ET by okiehawk44If the government continues to apply the same standards to this cash-for-clunkers program that ran out of funds in 6 days to the next round of funding and the results are exactly the same which seems highly probable then the definition of insanity has again been proven.
Anyone. Anyone who voted for Obama and this crew of idiots should immediately go stand in front of a moving train. How can you folks even pretend to support this?
You're daft!
On A Side Note.........
August 2, 2009 - 09:03 ET by HoosierEmI'm from Elkhart, Indiana (but no longer live there) and have several friends and family who still live there. Obama is visiting there on Wednesday for the third or fourth time for yet another townhall meeting. Elkhart is the "RV capital of the world" and we know how well things are going in that industry.
The unemployment rate continues to rise and people are actually suffering and furthermore, they are angry! People are not being kind when when they find out he is coming there yet again to push yet another government program.
This may be a townhall to watch. It will be interesting to see if he even takes questions from real people or if he will have plants there.
Read the comments and feedback.
http://www.wndu.com/... http://www.etruth.co...
Hoosier...
August 2, 2009 - 09:09 ET by ghost of Mary Jo KopechneHe will simply line the audience with Obamabots and pre-written staged questions. A total farce. The people that voted for this admin need a "blanket party".
Support Our Troops. God bless the military.
http://adoptaplatoon...
I wonder if they will get
August 2, 2009 - 09:43 ET by kangarooI wonder if they will get on the street and boo him like in NC. he he he
http://confederateya...
Hoosier,
August 2, 2009 - 10:16 ET by UpNorthhe'll do like he did in his Michigan "town hall" last month. Change the format to a canned speech, if the polling done in advance shows he might get tough questions. And all of his "town halls" are full of plants, folks who have real questions aren't allowed in, or if they sneak in, the questioners are hand-picked.
As for CfC, I hope the folks like bazzar enjoy buying cars for their neighbors. It's our money that's being spent, and the dems are laughing at us as they spend it.
Odumbo dumbest human on the planet.
August 2, 2009 - 09:12 ET by VinncyGAnother classic example of dumbacratic ideas at work. Hey libs, how's that change thing working out for you, wait until you have to see your doctor. I want to thank all the brain dead fools who unleashed this disgrace of human excrement on our country. It may take decades to unravel the harm he is doing to this country, if ever.
So I ask, Is there not ONE democrat who doesn't believe in what is being done to this country and switch parties? Is power that important that this country may be forever harmed for my children and yours? Someone on the left show some balls.
What do you expect
August 2, 2009 - 09:32 ET by general companyAnd the MSM is calling this program a popular success?
From pravda USA. It is heartning to see that so many relize the waste here.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
boy, you guys are funny. it
August 2, 2009 - 09:39 ET by cathartic1boy, you guys are funny. it wasn't that long ago that this site was demanding the MSM to stop saying that we were in a recession, stop talking about it, stop trying to predict it, etc. now that we are in a recession and we have a new admin, it now switches to "this recession will never end", "it's only going to get worse", "everything has failed!!!!"
this program, for whatever reason, is deemed by you guys to be a failure, yet cannot provide an accurate reason why. it's just a failure.
and now you guys seem to be enjoying that other people are laughing at us (per the youtube comments). you're promoting a video and saying that this is the common problem with this idea... it seems like this is all pointing to the notion that conservatives are now rooting for the US to fall apart. it's kinda sad...
Cathartic - Really?
August 2, 2009 - 09:43 ET by HoosierEmThe democrats have decided that a majority of perfectly good cars should be destroyed and sent to China as scrap and then sold back again to Americans in some other form.
It's just another government give away. But guess where that money comes from? Taxpayers who can ill afford to be contributing to buying cars for other people as well as health insurance, mortgage payments, and "stimulus." Plus, these people buying the new cars are taking on NEW DEBT that they probably would not have taken on to begin with and probably cannot afford.
boy, the lefties are alive this morning
August 2, 2009 - 09:43 ET by candancethis program, for whatever reason, is deemed by you guys to be a failure, yet cannot provide an accurate reason why. it's just a failure.
This thread is filled with arguments as to why the program is failing. Debunk them point by point or admit you're just here to flap your gums.
but i'm not arguing that
August 2, 2009 - 09:56 ET by cathartic1but i'm not arguing that it is a success or a failure. i'm just saying that it's funny that under bush, any negative talk of the economy was immediately dismissed as bias, as liberals looking to destroy bush's legacy, democrats trying to seize power, etc.
here's a program that is trying to do something positive, and to you guys, it doesn't matter. it sucks! it's filled with waste! it's not helping the environment! who cares that it's helping car companies in terms of clearing inventories that will need to be refilled with newly made cars that will create jobs! obama!!!!
i mean, if government waste has always been such a big issue, how come no one on this site ever complained about sailboat fuel?
Your going to have to do better then that Cathartic
August 2, 2009 - 10:06 ET by general companyhere's a program that is trying to do something positive
Where is the "positive"? If you cant explain the "positive" then what the heck are you saying?
BTW you liberals are doing something about Sailboat fuel as well, its called cap n tax, taxing the air we breath. Go find a clue please.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
um. it's giving people
August 2, 2009 - 10:14 ET by cathartic1um. it's giving people incentive to buy new cars. buying new cars gives the car dealer some money. buying new cars also means inventory is being cleared. inventory being cleared means that it needs to be replaced. replacing inventory means building new cars. someone has to build the new cars.
now the effectiveness of this is surely up in the air. but my point is that under bush, we needed to "think positive"; under obama, it's now "screw thinking positive".
Incentive to create more debt
August 2, 2009 - 10:49 ET by general companyCar dealers get a tiny boost only to be crippled later when their are no used cars left to sell, and nobody is buying the new ones, because the Gov. just subsidized everyones new one. What good does it do to replace inventory when it wont sell either. Soon (IMO)the Gov. is going to restrict this plan to just Gov. motors, they will require us to subsidize their failure at running the auto industry into the ground. There is no upside here, none. It will artificially drive up prices of new cars and used vehicles, not to mention parts that will not be available to be rebuilt or simply salvaged.
The air is not a problem, these car would had been replaced eventualy anyway, without MY taxes subsidizing it.
Only Obama apologizer could see this as a positive, those of us who understand the industry no better. I already said please, but seriously you need a clue bad.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
oh i'll grant you that you
August 2, 2009 - 11:03 ET by cathartic1oh i'll grant you that you know the industry better than i do, but the rest of your argument is based on assumption. which is fine. i'm more of a "let's see where this goes" kind of person. i would argue that this needs to be kept (relatively) small and limited, but i also think it's important we should do whatever works to help the economy as opposed to just bad-mouthing it based on whose in the white house. not saying you personally, but just in general.
I suggest prudence
August 2, 2009 - 11:20 ET by general companyi'm more of a "let's see where this goes" kind of person
Prudence, exspearimenting with my money doesnt do much for me. Obama has already single handedly killed more jobs in the auto industry then this has any hopes of creating, plus once it is over, NOBODY will be buying any cars, crippling the industry further, maybe even beyond repair.
We already know how to fix the economy, its been done before. What we are doing now is killing it,
Now I went out of my way to find you a few clues,
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
and i appreciate the few
August 2, 2009 - 11:42 ET by cathartic1and i appreciate the few clues that you've given me.
a few points, though: i'm not arguing that this cash for clunkers things is an unmitigated success... or failure. you keep thinking that i am. i'm not. i just find the distinction of the reaction of any perceived waste under different presidents funny.
second, the links you've provided don't tell me much about what to do. sure reagan had a load of crap to deal with, and he dealt with it. the link you've given only shows the results... that took years. obama is being judged only in 7 months time. now we could go back and forth about what he has done and what it means, but those arguments go nowhere.
and it has nothing to do with the notion that under bush, there was an attempt to hush up the impending doom, but under obama, it's now more than okay to talk about failure. do you want links about that as a means of "defending my arguments"?
Sure they do
August 2, 2009 - 11:50 ET by general companysecond, the links you've provided don't tell me much about what to do.
CUT TAXES, GET BIG GOV OUT OF THE WAY, works every time. Hay I know this might be a shock for you, but this same philosophy will work for health care as well.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Agreed-
August 2, 2009 - 11:57 ET by BKeyserHere's a couple about attempts under Bush to cover up the impending doom:
"Barney Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco"? or,
Media Mum on Barney Frank's Fannie Mae Love Connection ? or,
VIDEO: Barney Frank (D) Denying Problems With / Blocking Oversight of Fannie-Freddie in 2003? or maybe this one:
(video) Maxine Waters and others denying Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were in crisis.
Gotta love the links! What's that quote about bringing a knife to a gun fight?...
i just saw this one. okay,
August 2, 2009 - 13:09 ET by cathartic1i just saw this one. okay, so you posted links where democrats are the cause of the problems. awesome!
now to be nit-picky, i didn't put in the above part in my notion that it's the problem of this site that when people talked down the economy under bush, it was to ruin his legacy. when they do the same thing under obama, it's to help him pass legislation. that is my argument.
YOu are a "lets see where
August 2, 2009 - 11:41 ET by red_dragon311YOu are a "lets see where it goes" type of person.....so it went frm 1 bllion in 6 weeks to to 6 days......if you had a financial planer that told you to that you had enough money to last you 6 weeks but it only lasted 6 days would that be a sucessful??
the "Lets see where it goes" ...well lets just see where it goes ....6 weeks equals 42 days....the money was gone in 6. 42-6= 35
35 day we have left 5 weeks so the CfC is going to cost the tax payers 6 billion dollars.
no what if you truly have a clinker and need a newer car, but can't afford a $300 car note you fix your clunker....but wait parts for the clunker are now 3 times as much as they were.
gotta love where it goes
FINALY A REAL CANDIATE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!
http://zod2008.com/index.htm
Incentive to buy new cars........
August 2, 2009 - 13:00 ET by Gecks"buying new cars gives the car dealers some money, buying new cars also means inventory is being cleared, inventory being cleared means that it needs to be replaced, replacing inventory means building new cars, someone has to build the new cars."
Follow this thinking, and the next step is that the inventory that replaces the previous inventory will be unsold since everybody got thier new cars with government subsidies, so again, the new cars will sit on the lot unsold.
Then what happens? Does the Government then again step in and offer "Cash for not-so Clunkers" just to keep the circle going? I drive a PT Cruiser that is in great shape. I have 2 years left on the payments. If I buy a new car, and take on a new loan, Will the Government give me a LARGE incentive to do this, then GIVE my old car to someone with clunker car who couldn't afford a car payment with the caveaut that they turn in thier clunker that they would have done earlier if they could have afforded a car payment to begin with?
It is a vicious circle. Eventually, it is going to crumble under it's own weight. Then what?
"Your right to Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness ends at my front door, and my wallet!"-Me!
well, that's under the
August 2, 2009 - 13:13 ET by cathartic1well, that's under the assumption that this is a permanent idea. it shouldn't be. it should be limited. right now it's being extended, and hopefully that will be it.
But, if it's such a good
August 2, 2009 - 19:18 ET by ckc1227But, if it's such a good idea to begin with, if it works, why stop it?
"but my point is that under
August 2, 2009 - 19:15 ET by ckc1227"but my point is that under bush, we needed to "think positive"; under obama, it's now "screw thinking positive"."
Would you like a side of straw with that whine?
We don't live in a vacuum. Every action doesn't warrant the same response. When a stone cold marxist comes in and wants to take over health care, car companies, targets private business, etc...no, I'm not going to say "just think positive", I don't care what letter is behind their name. Just like I didn't say 'just think positive" when Bush said he had to abandon free market principles to save the free market, or when he crafted no child left behind with Teddy Kennedy, or when he signed into law a brand new prescription drug entitlement program.
Wait, I know...we all just said "think positive" when he was pushing for amnesty, right? Or maybe when he signed McCain-Feingold. Yep, we were all thinky positivey about that one too.
Not.
oh, and i'm not sure what
August 2, 2009 - 10:40 ET by cathartic1oh, and i'm not sure what cap'n tax has to do with sailboat fuel...?
Niether do I
August 2, 2009 - 10:57 ET by general companyBut yet your intellectual giants in DC are going to tax our air none the less. Air, isnt that Sailboat fuel? I cant believe folks can actually survive being as thick as you. Big mama Gov must of been taken good care of you. : [
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
well i was using sailboat
August 2, 2009 - 11:06 ET by cathartic1well i was using sailboat fuel in referencing to the pointless trips that were contracted out in the iraqi warzones. private contracters just driving around dangerous areas and billing the taxpayer increased fees for shipments that didn't exist. i would argue that is a more egregious waste of taxpayer money, but i never saw anyone complain about that here... but if a guy intentionally destroys a car under obama.... hoo boy.
Link?
August 2, 2009 - 11:22 ET by BlondeI hope he fails, too.
hmm. well if i gave you a
August 2, 2009 - 11:25 ET by cathartic1hmm. well if i gave you a specific link, i'm sure it would be dismissed as "liberal garbage".
how bout this?
Oh I see.
August 2, 2009 - 11:39 ET by BlondeYou fail to cite a specific link or links....nice argument.
So we'll just have to take your word for it.
You are dismissed.
I hope he fails, too.
sigh. okey doke. well don't
August 2, 2009 - 11:46 ET by cathartic1sigh. okey doke. well don't say i didn't warn you.
Matt Taibbi?
August 2, 2009 - 12:05 ET by BKeyserThis may help:
cred·i·bil·i·ty);
(krěd'ə-bĭl'ĭ-tē)
n.
//-->
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
now that's funny. people
August 2, 2009 - 12:09 ET by cathartic1now that's funny. people wanted a link. i said "if i do, it'll be dismissed". instead i posted a google search that shows plenty of stories about the same thing, hoping people would find one that they would like. they don't. so i give 'em rollingstone. which is then dismissed. round and round we go...
"Hoping" to let other make your arguement for you
August 2, 2009 - 13:57 ET by general companyso i give 'em rollingstone. which is then dismissed. round and round we go...
Correction, round and round you go...You have bought nothing to the debate except platitudes and soon to be taxed air. When the point is made about why this program is a bad idea, you point to other supposed bad behavior. How about trying to concentrate on one subject at a time. If your not interested in debating C4C, maybe you should move on?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
and yet you've done the same
August 2, 2009 - 14:16 ET by cathartic1and yet you've done the same thing. you talked about barney frank and cap'n tax and the failure of liberal policies, etc. and all i was trying to do was say that perhaps there are some positives about this program, and how quickly this site will now run to damage it (ie, that wonderful new poll that was just posted...)
I get your basic point, cathartic
August 2, 2009 - 14:41 ET by candanceYou are saying that people have a knee-jerk reaction to defend or attack something just based on whose idea it is. There are cases where this is true, and it does happen on both sides.
But this is a highly-publicized program that's already been moved into emergency funding once. It's not an idea Obama is trying to sell - it's being applied right now.
There is a very simple concept called market saturation that anyone who took a business class in college would know about. It's basic 101 stuff. The ideas we are presenting here are not technicalities that can be highly debatable. It's common sense. And it isn't about assuming Obama is an evil genius. Good intentions are a dime a dozen. We expect our president to be smart enough to the right thing that's also the smart thing.
You can't just tie a sheet around your neck, climb to the roof of your house, and tell your friends not to laugh until they see the result.
And aside from that, unless you told your friends to "wait and see" what happened in Iraq, there's a good chance you're painting this issue a certain way because of how you feel about Obama too.
well i'll tell you what: if
August 2, 2009 - 15:56 ET by cathartic1well i'll tell you what: if you all turn out to be right and this is an unmitigated disaster, i'll buy you all a beer. aight?
Geez,
August 2, 2009 - 11:24 ET by general companyCant defend your arguments so you start making stuff up? We have a name for you here, and we already have a better class of them as well. Later
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
i put a link above. i'm sure
August 2, 2009 - 11:56 ET by cathartic1i put a link above. i'm sure you will love it.
Your joking right? ..
August 3, 2009 - 01:52 ET by SquidlyHaven't got a clue eh?
Think about if it for just a moment ... Here are a couple clues for you...
What kind of fuel do sailboats run on? ... answer: AIR
What is Cap'N Trade all about? ... answer: TAXING AIR
Wow, me thinks someone needs to be paying a little more attention to current affairs.
Unemployment was at 4% and
August 2, 2009 - 10:17 ET by pcantidoteUnemployment was at 4% and the GDP was growing when you were trying to say the economy was bad. As for trying to do something positive, please STOP TRYING. Just try to do NOTHING and let the free markets work for once.
Enforce Term Limits if They Won't: Vote Against ALL Incumbents in 2010.
sure it was. but it's not
August 2, 2009 - 10:21 ET by cathartic1sure it was. but it's not now. people were warning that there is some serious $&%^ on the horizon back then, and this site started this meme of "think positive" and it won't happen. but it did.
as for letting the markets take care of it itself, i would agree. but i also think that letting the markets go free is what got us here in the first place. how do we fix it now, and how do we prevent it in the future?
You need to start backing up what you suggesting
August 2, 2009 - 11:05 ET by general companyWhen Barney and Dodd ruined the housing markets and we started giving tax payer money away is when the bottom fell out. But like a typical liberal you cannot wrap any responsibillity around those that ruined our economy. Pravda USA was screaming the sky in falling, Obama was saying we were in a depression and you intilectual giants cant understand why folks quit spending money and started the lay-offs. Geez, you guys kill wealth rely on big mama Gov to take the rest of our money and stimulat the economy? Do you have any idea just how stupid that sounds to a SANE person?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
um, okay. but i'm not
August 2, 2009 - 11:18 ET by cathartic1um, okay. but i'm not arguing about who is responsible for this mess. [in that respect, there's plenty of blame on both sides]. i was arguing about how this website treats the economy, and those who talk about it, and who is president at the time.
again, under president bush, it was "we're not in a recession!!! stop talking about it!!!" when the economy was bad-mouthed.
then, under obama, it was originally "well, they're just saying we're in a recession to help further his agenda and pass his stimulus bill. yeah, that's it." [even though it was the same people in the media doing the same thing, the only ones who could truly discern a change in motive were conservatives on this site...]
and now it's turning into, "it doesn't matter what he does, he sucks! every plan he comes up with is or will fail!"
So you agreed, but then failed
August 2, 2009 - 11:31 ET by general companyum, okay. but i'm not arguing about who is responsible for this mess.
Of course your not, big mama Gov will fix it all. Even if it brakes the country and kills opportunity for the less unfortunate.
Wake up call for liberals, the depression will always hurt those that rely on the Gov,, more then those that dont.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Hello ... wake up!
August 3, 2009 - 02:08 ET by SquidlyHave you been paying ANY attention to the policies that this leftist,
narcissistic, Marxist, [Obama] is pushing? My god man, wake the hell up already.
How plain and "in your face" does this stuff have to be before you wake up and
recognize what is going on?
About the only thing I find more appalling than Obama and his agenda, is the
utter and complete lack of so many people to see past the end of their fricken
noses. It is truly remarkable.
And no, I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. I am not party affiliated in any
way, nor will I ever be. I am a free thinker and I choose intelligence
over partisanship.
Can you not think for yourself?
QUIT BEING A SHEEPLE!!!
Letting the markets go free
August 2, 2009 - 11:29 ET by pcantidoteLetting the markets go free is NOT what got us here. Infuriating. Liberal policies and government contagion got us here. Encouraging, and then buying bad loans to the unqualified via the CRA and then Fannie/Freddie. There are no bad mortgage backed securities or bad credit default swaps without these bad loans brokered and guaranteed by our government. I can't take this.
Enforce Term Limits if They Won't: Vote Against ALL Incumbents in 2010.
well, like i said, these
August 2, 2009 - 12:02 ET by cathartic1well, like i said, these kinds of arguments go nowhere. you'll blame certain things, i'll blame certain things, and either we're both right or both wrong. i refuse to think that liberals are the cause of all the world's ills... and it's the same thing for conservative values. it seems that every argument boils down to "liberals ruin every thing and repub-- scratch that, conservatives fix everything."
Make some sense
August 2, 2009 - 12:14 ET by general companywell, like i said, these kinds of arguments go nowhere.
Of course they do, you have NOT brought anything to the debate, just a liberal apologizer.
it seems that every argument boils down to "liberals ruin every thing and repub-- scratch that, conservatives fix everything."
Just one, name one liberal policy that was a success, just one. Name one that did not reduce our liberty, save us money, or truly help the needy without burdening others.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
there's nothing that can be
August 2, 2009 - 12:21 ET by cathartic1there's nothing that can be brought to a debate like this (see the crap about sailboat fuel above). it just results in a back and forth that goes nowhere.
to answer your question about liberal policies: i can't. not one. but i can't name a republican policy that's done the same either.
Here's one:
August 2, 2009 - 12:25 ET by BKeyserStrong National Defense!
honestly, i would agree
August 2, 2009 - 12:31 ET by cathartic1honestly, i would agree with that. certainly.
... but per the statement above, it certainly isn't without waste. i think we all know that... or do i need to provide links for that?
Lower Taxes increase Revenue
August 2, 2009 - 14:12 ET by general companyAnd of course we all know that is what a liberal wants, is other folks money. But taking our liberty via reducing opportunity seems to be the long pole in the tent for liberals,,,right? Cap n tax, Gov. run health rationing, managing the banking industry, reducing our ability to provide more energy for ourselves, running the auto industry, invading our personal info via our computers, and finally a 23 page census that will put the finally touches on our privacy and enable the corruption to spread. Just to be clear, your freedom dies also, but I guess you will have the satisfaction of knowing you help bring it to fruition.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
There is definitely waste
August 2, 2009 - 18:52 ET by ckc1227There is definitely waste in the military. But waste doing things the government is supposed to do versus waste in things they aren't supposed to do are two different things. Maybe if government stopped trying to run every aspect of people's lives, it could focus a little more on the things it's supposed to be doing, and maybe cut a little waste in the process.
"think positive" and it
August 2, 2009 - 12:00 ET by Jerry"think positive" and it won't happen. but it did...
All coinciding with the Democrat takeover in 2006. Gee. Who'd a thunk it?
For 8 years, all we heard from the MSM (D) was how close we were to the Great Depression. Now, when things are really bad, all we hear is how great everything is. Unemployment is treated as a positive, as time to spend with family and do those things you never had time to do. Demolishing perfectly good products for a few bucks in your pocket is not only acceptable now, it is a great policy.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
wait wait, lemme guess!
August 2, 2009 - 12:16 ET by cathartic1wait wait, lemme guess! it's the fault of the CRA right?
as for the media response, i think you're redfining it a bit. unemployment was not seen as a good thing... but a smaller than expected unemployment number was. it was still shown as a problem, but that the problem is slowly ebbing. should we not feel good about that? or would it feel better if it was worse than expected?
please take this free quarter and buy a clue
August 2, 2009 - 11:11 ET by candanceA lot of us DID complain about Bush and WERE concerned about the economy.
who cares that it's helping car companies in terms of clearing inventories that will need to be refilled with newly made cars that will create jobs!
Since GM cars are made in Mexico and Chrysler is owned by Italians, this won't make much benefit to our economy, especially since this plan involves hundreds of thousands of Americans to go further into debt for brand new cars they don't necessarily need.
When a plan is so totally bad that it's obvious, we're not required to pretend to give it a chance.
You really should try an keep up
August 2, 2009 - 09:45 ET by general companyYour comment makes no sense here!!
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Giving away other peoples'
August 2, 2009 - 09:45 ET by Jack BauerGiving away other peoples' money (that is: taxpayers) is always a liberal succees.
It's the one financial activity the left is actually very good at.
I believe conservatives are pointing out, and laughing at, the logical failure of the whole concept. I mean, how much DO they want to spend? 10 billion. 100 billion.
It does echo the famous dictum by Margaret Thatcher:
"In the end, socialists always run out of other peoples' money to spend."
Here's 2 reasons its stupid- even if you don't call that failure
August 2, 2009 - 10:02 ET by BKeyserFirst, the math. I did this the other day but I'll repeat it for you lefties:
Second: what exactly are they pouring down the throats of these engines to make them seize, that also requires the mechanic to suit up in MOPP gear? (sorry for the acronym- military folks know what I mean.) What's the EPA's stance on this product? How much research was done to insure that no environmental damage would occur through the use of this product? You can't spray paint your child's bicycle in the back yard in some parts of the country because of the "potential harmful effects to the planet", but we can apply some "chemical" to permanently destroy an iron engine block which will either remain in some junkyard (for how long?) or be melted down in China to create some toy for your children?
Definitely stupid. Failure? Yeah, I'd say this is another failed piece of rushed legislation intended not to solve any problem marketed to the citizenry, but rather to pay back large campaign donors and solidify (pun intended) the alliances created through back-door channels.
for your math argument, it
August 2, 2009 - 10:34 ET by cathartic1for your math argument, it could be argued that this was done purposefully to create a sense of success. if something resulted in a massive reponse that caused for a product to truly run out, that result could be spun as "demand". for example, if a band sells out an arena, people would say "gee, they must still be popular based on the demand for tickets."
as for you comment on this particular video, i think it's a pretty high standard to say that the actions of ONE individual can determine the success or failure of a government program.
it could be argued?
August 2, 2009 - 10:39 ET by BKeyserI didn't hear anyone in Congress making that argument. What I heard was surprise that the program ran out of money in 4 days. And since they are trying to appropriate an additional $2B, I'm wondering how much time they think that will buy them...
I didn't make a comment about the video in particular.
well, no, no one made that
August 2, 2009 - 10:45 ET by cathartic1well, no, no one made that argument. but no one made the argument that the fact that it ran out so quickly was a sign of failure either. that's what i was specifically referencing. i think we're in the same boat on putting a timeline on this idea, though: an additional 2B and that's that.
and i thought you were talking about this meathead with making the engines seize up. if that's not the case, my b.
I think the point here...
August 2, 2009 - 10:57 ET by BKeyserthat so many of us are trying to make is that this program, rushed through Congress without a great deal of thought was gimmicky from the outset. The fact that it was intended to last thru Labor Day and fell more than 5 weeks short of that goal (of 6 weeks, mind you), pretty much makes it a failure. But when you add in all of the other consequenses such as:
reveals this brief and (unsurprisingly) media-popular program to be exactly what it is: a failed attempt to mislead "dumb" (their word) Americans into thinking they were doing something economically beneficial. I guess those "dumb" Americans may have actually bought into it (again, pun intended).
"this program, for whatever
August 2, 2009 - 18:39 ET by ckc1227"this program, for whatever reason, is deemed by you guys to be a
failure, yet cannot provide an accurate reason why. it's just a
failure."
I guess you haven't read the pposts, or watched the video. Destruction of perfectly good cars for no reason is enough to make this program a failure.
"it wasn't that long ago that this site was demanding the MSM to stop
saying that we were in a recession, stop talking about it, stop trying
to predict it, etc. now that we are in a recession and we have a new
admin, it now switches to "this recession will never end", "it's only
going to get worse", "everything has failed!!!!"
Yes, we had a problem with the MSM talking down the economy for 8 years. But didn't you get the memo? The recession is over, and it only took the great Obama 6 months to fix it, lol. By the way, do you realize you're making two unrelated arguments? Probably not.
"it seems like this is all pointing to the notion that conservatives are now rooting for the US to fall apart"
Project much? Rooting for the US to fall apart is a liberal thing. You guys own that concept, and have for about 60 years or more.
"it's kinda sad..."
It IS sad. We live in the greatest country in the world, yet people like you despise pretty much everything about it.
Sickening
August 2, 2009 - 09:40 ET by LewWatersFor 43 years I have been a mechanic in one sense or another. Seeing a perfectly useful and good running engine destroyed simply to satisfy a politican's whim is sickening.
Think of the scrap yards that could have made some profit off of the engine or even the whole car.
I fail to see how this program benefits anybody as it is our borrowed tax dollars going to get people in new cars who might not have qualified before. What jobs are created after hundreds of dealers where forced to close their doors?
And what happens when the latest infusion of $2 Billion more runs out and people realize they cannot make their car payments?
It may look good in the short run, but over all, I don't see how it is going to help anything.
Lew
August 2, 2009 - 09:45 ET by HoosierEmIt's helping the beloved unions; like they need anymore help.
let me provide the missing link
August 2, 2009 - 09:50 ET by candanceThe extra 2 billion came from unspent money in the original stimulus bill.
So basically, Congress is doing exactly what I thought they would - sitting on that money until everyone forgets about it and then spending it on whatever pet project they want.
Wouldn't it be better for
August 2, 2009 - 09:51 ET by Jack BauerWouldn't it be better for the country, and more cost-effective, to keep the cars, but ...
CRUSH THE DEMOCRATS?
Yes Jack Bauer
August 2, 2009 - 11:38 ET by HoosierEmShutting those folks up for awhile might clear a lot of the hot air they spew.
I have never looked forward to someone else's vacation as much as I have this idiotic democratic congress. Unfortunately, their stupidity will continue to drive this country down for the next four weeks.
obviosity
August 2, 2009 - 10:14 ET by vote24A free market is a free market is a free market. A government scam is a government scam is a government scam. Incentives have become....or else. obama seems to be craving a confrontation with middle America. I think he is going to be quite surprised with what he will find. "Quality control is always easier and infinitely less painful than damage control." Ted Nugent
It is backdoor socialism.
August 2, 2009 - 10:55 ET by ahusserCarrot/stick incentives and disincentives; legislation, regulation and taxation is just a means to an end. The end is fiscal policy as a means of acquiring and holding on to power and furthering a socialist agenda. This is how lib/dems wield power. It is much more "enlightened" than armed revolution I guess and much more subtle (And incremental. Akin to boiling a lobster by slowly heating the water.)
I see no real benefit to the incentive "cash for clunkers" program other than a transfer of wealth via taxpayer money to those who can already afford a new car and the appearance of "greeness", helping the economy in general and the car industry in particular. Appearances are very important to libs as nothing they do has any substance or reason behind it other than smoke and mirrors.
"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'
That was no where near a
August 2, 2009 - 10:23 ET by SRPwrdThat was no where near a clunker. That car is newer than my own car. I didn't know that you got your trade in plus 4500 for this program... that and this? It really is population control...
"I believe in American Exceptionalism, just like Brits believe in British Exceptionalism and Greeks believe in Greek Exceptionalism." - PreBO, 4/4/09
Trade in?
August 2, 2009 - 10:51 ET by American.PatriotI don't think dealers are giving any trade in allowance beyond the govt subsidy. Since the cars are destroyed, the dealer would lose $ if they gave a trade in allowance.
Who was the stupid fu@& that would bring in a reasonably sound car like this to be destroyed?
Have to agree with the posts from you tube that are included in this story, sure makes us Americans out as idiots, when it's the looney left 's fault for this crap
Duh...
August 2, 2009 - 11:31 ET by SRPwrdI should have taken the junking into account lol. Why would someone bring in an S80 like this just for $4500? I am sure someone would be willing to take it off their hands for $5000 at LEAST. I would have paid $5k for it!
I just hope that nobody brings in cars that I will want in around 5-6 yrs. This will not be good for the used car market if fake clunkers like this are being pulled out.
"I believe in American Exceptionalism, just like Brits believe in British Exceptionalism and Greeks believe in Greek Exceptionalism." - PreBO, 4/4/09
Criteria Changing
August 2, 2009 - 10:47 ET by slickwillie2001Something you folks should know, -the criteria for which cars qualify has suddenly changed. If you were going to take advantage of it, look again.
Cash for Clunkers Headaches: http://www.floppingaces.net
[q] In some cases, car buyers say, dealers are backing out of sales they’ve already made because the EPA changed the fuel economy figures on their trade-in.
“My wife just received a call from the sales manager saying that our clunker doesn’t qualify anymore, and that we could either pay the extra $4,500 or return the new car (and get our old car back),” Greg Straka wrote Tuesday on a message board at the Edmunds.com… automotive Web site. [unq]
So just because you sign the papers and drive off the lot doesn't mean the government can't screw you later. And way the by, will you have to claim that $4500 next April as income to the IRS bloodsuckers?
As a car guy...
August 2, 2009 - 10:54 ET by HeavyChevythat was the worst sound I ever heard coming from a car and as silly as it may be to others it really tore me up inside it was like hearing an animal being tortured, hell I couldn't go on watching it any further.
This is insanity at it's finest.
Well for any of those of voted for this @$$ I hope your enjoying the fruits of his labor.
As a former mechanic I had
August 2, 2009 - 10:56 ET by jistincaseAs a former mechanic I had to say that was hard to watch. Destroying a perfectly good used car for a stupid government run plan designed to sell new cars as payback to the unions in insane, but what am I thinking, that seems to be the operating procedure these days.
I bet the sales of Volvo will go up after that because I can tell you that a Chevy or Chrysler wouldn't have lasted more than 30 seconds at that RPM. I was impressed at Volvo's engineering. Just goes to show you why American cars don't sell as good anymore.
I going to keep my old 72 F100 until it rusts into a big pile just to piss off every lib and enviro hack in the town. I have a sign on mine that says, RUNS ON AND OVER SMART CARS!
Wish I kept my 86 Monte Carlo
August 2, 2009 - 11:05 ET by HeavyChevyand my 74 Nova.
I sold a '67 camaro last
August 2, 2009 - 11:10 ET by BKeyserI sold a '67 camaro last December (sigh)
Sounds like you have sellers remorse.
August 2, 2009 - 11:14 ET by HeavyChevyI know the feeling.
My 95 Camaro has been good to me (minus that accursed Opti-Spark ignition) but I do miss my Monte.
Bought her in '88 in
August 2, 2009 - 11:32 ET by BKeyserBought her in '88 in California. (I'm in Maryland.) Longest relationship I ever had! I was building a street/race/show car (not much desire for a somewhat-original straight 6, 3-on-the-tree) and had put about $24k in her over the long project. She was a ways from completion, but I sure put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it. Would've liked to finished the job...but then, it probably won't be legal to drive much longer!
HC
August 2, 2009 - 11:39 ET by well99I wish I had kept my 73 Duster with a 340.Cant forget the cassette deck back when the 8 track ruled.I sold it before going in the Army.Just watching them destroy perfectly good cars makes me wonder if these silver spoons in the goverment have a clue.There are many people who could use a dependable ride and here they just destroy good rigs.
when I used to live in NYC
August 2, 2009 - 12:58 ET by HeavyChevyOur neighbor used to have one, it was painted gold and clean like no body business but that was back in '83-'84 to young to drive but old enough to love to look at that car.
but think about it in the realm of $30,000+ cars 4500 is a drop in the bucket which leaves you on the hook for the rest. People are throwing away perfectly good cars that are already paid for or close to being paid for to go into debt again.
Not me buddy.
HC
August 2, 2009 - 16:25 ET by well99Mine was only a couple years old lol.It was cherry red and the dealer use to work at the lumber mill with me.I got a good deal.
"but think about it in the realm of $30,000+ cars 4500 is a drop in the bucket which leaves you on the hook for the rest. People are throwing away perfectly good cars that are already paid for or close to being paid for to go into debt again."
I agree it is insane.It doesnt make any sense to me.Better to pay off bills and keep your car but some people just dont think that way.
My 88 Ford Ranger that my
August 2, 2009 - 11:47 ET by ricklailMy 88 Ford Ranger that my dad bought new still runs fine. The electric windows and the A/C are broke along with the gas gauge. My son is driving it right now. Somebody stole his 2005 Silverado and burned. Reckon it was one of those enviromental wachos?
Semper suprene nitens
North Carolina now has the worst government money can buy.
What!!
August 2, 2009 - 12:06 ET by general companyI bet the sales of Volvo will go up after that because I can tell you
that a Chevy or Chrysler wouldn't have lasted more than 30 seconds at
that RPM.
Being a Ford guy I am guessing you are just being smart? Because I doubt you can back that up? My wife had a Volvo, I ended up replacing the Engine and Tranny with a 260 olds and a 350 turbo trans. Because the one that came with the car could not drag it around witout constant attention. Man I hated that car.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Correct GC
August 2, 2009 - 13:15 ET by HeavyChevyPlymouth Reliant wagon 168,000+ (running strong until a car accident)
86 Chevy Monte Carlo- 178,000+ still running solid, sold to cousin (I am an idiot.)
74 Nova 200,000+ six cylinder ran like a dream great gas mileage (again sold it because..yep you guessed it I am an idiot.)
Ford Aerostar 160,000 +miles (Company van bought from them for around $800 when my old company went under) now has 287,000 miles on her until last week when I finally replaced her with a 2000 Chevy Astro van.
And last but not least my 95 Camaro LT-1 just ticked 150,000 fun as heck to drive and I just installed a Magnaflow Cat-back exhaust system, Trick-Flow intake and some other future odds and ends.
Yea HC
August 2, 2009 - 14:16 ET by general companyI got 320K out of the slant six in my 87 Truck. Heck I rebuilt it for about 300.oo and sold it to a freind who still drives it.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
wait for it GC
August 2, 2009 - 14:26 ET by HeavyChevynext thing you know Bambi and his horde of buffoons will outlaw us "shade tree" mechanics. Making sure all work from here on out must be done by a qualified government mechanic.
They tried that a couple of years ago....
August 2, 2009 - 17:49 ET by Gecks..here in California. I remember a petition circulating at all the Auto Supply stores to stop the State Congress from considering a bill that would ban auto repairs outside of certified repair stations. Went down in a ball of flames. It is still legal to work on your cars in your own garage, and under your own shade tree.
Gecks
"Your right to Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness ends at my front door, and my wallet!"-Me!
I am a Ford guy too but I
August 2, 2009 - 18:10 ET by jistincaseI am a Ford guy too but I wouldn't hold the hammer down on it like that and expect it to last more than a half minute. I agree about the older Volvos. They were pieces of junk that I hated to work on with the stupid fuel injection that they had. Technology has come a long way with foreign makers but not so much with American.
I used to own a 68 Mustang GT fastback with a 390 and 4speed like the one McQueen drove in Bullet and I also had a 71 Boss 351 that would wipe up just about anything on the street for over 13yrs. I will always be fond of Fords and if I could afFORD it, :) I would go out and buy a new F series so I could crush some smart cars.
And yes with the engine screaming at around 8000 just about any American car would have launched the intake through the hood in 30 seconds. I am surprised that those idiots with the volvo were not hurt in some way.
During my college years
August 2, 2009 - 11:58 ET by LiberalliesDuring my college years from 1996 until 2000, I drove a 1987 Rx7. If it hadn't been for the used cars parts industry, I would have never been able to go back and forth from school and home.
These idiots in the Federal government are such retards. Destroy a perfectly well running car and not allow its parts to be sold. Typical Liberal, feel good program. Save an industry, but destroy a whole bunch in the process. They might, which it probably wont' happen, save the new car industry, but in the process they destroy the used car and used parts for cars industries.
One step forward, three steps back.
and people are willing to have this government run their healthcare?
What is wrong with Americans? or the 53% that voted for this pathetic fool.
August 2, 2009 - 12:21 ET by jessieHSmoke and Mirrors. That is obama's plan. 1. take over the auto industry. 2.Take over the press. 3. Take over the energy industry. 4. Take over the healthcare industry. 5. Put soldiers (ACORN,GREENPEACE,UNIONS,ect.) in key jobs, call them czars. 6. Destroy the ties with allies. 7. Execute total destruction of the U.S within two years.
This program should top the list
August 2, 2009 - 13:08 ET by acumenon Barry's next America Apology Tour.
So much for the messiah improving our image around the world.
There is something strange
August 2, 2009 - 13:22 ET by AlanaThere is something strange about this whole thing. We had three older vehicles, and I went to the government site specifically set up to determine if a vehicle qualified. None of ours did.
They had to get less than 18mpg. In addition, you had to buy a car that got - I forget exactly how much - over; something like 5mpg over.
I compared all our vehicles to newer, comparable modeles, and none of the new models got that much over.
Then I started just clicking around at random to find out which vehicles actually qualified for this. I didn't click around that much, maybe 5-10 times, and didn't find one.
I would have to go back to the website and check more to really come to any conclusion. But my cursery evaluation led me to believe that it would be hard to qualify for this.
Yet bunches of people have, in record time. I think something not quite kosher is going on.
If you voted for Dumbo you
August 2, 2009 - 18:03 ET by jistincaseIf you voted for Dumbo you get preferential treatment.
Time savings vs long term costs
August 2, 2009 - 17:46 ET by DustBunny01According to Congressman Campbell of California, there is a provision in the bill that allows for the engine, and possible the transmission, to be separated from the body of the vehicle. At that time, the vehicle is rendered legally inoperative and then it can be sold and harvested for parts.
However, the cost of doing that is higher than hiring a couple of flunkies off the street to simply destroy the engines.
So, as with most human endeavors, the people in charge take the easier solution and don't concern themselves with things such as re-cycling used parts.
This program is simplicity
August 2, 2009 - 20:15 ET by ThermistoclesThis program is simplicity itself compared to what they are proposing to do with government run health care.
Seriously. Look at the DTV converter box coupon program. Screwed up and over budget. They can't even make decent projections on that simple program and yet have the undying faith that they can solve much more complicated problems.
I think these folks should be locked up with the criminally insane. They are a danger to society.
One thing
August 2, 2009 - 22:49 ET by ToenexWhere did the goverment GET OFF that it was their job to spend tax dollars on cars? Oh I know, same place they get the right on every other thing they do that they have no right to spend our money on.THEMSELVES. Vote them out, D's and Rino R's.
Who was it a fews years back in office that said a billion here, a billion there, after a while it starts to add up? Only now it's trillion.
Does anyone think we can ever repay the the trillions of dollars we are on the hook for? Now more than the net worth of the planet, so I'm told.
The way I see it, BO has said he wants to rebuild the USA and I would say the way he's going to do it is by taking it apart first. DR. O : This is going to hurt, But it's for my own good.
Authority isn't truth, truth is authority
"Les Moore"
THERE IS NO STINKING WASTE! Unless you mean the
August 2, 2009 - 23:43 ET by Rush Fan$1,791,000 by Senate Agriculture Appropriations Subcommittee member Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) for swine odor and manure management research in Ames.
$6,422,625 for six projects for clients of a lobbying firm under federal investigation for making campaign donations in exchange for political favors for the firm's clients, including: $1,189,375 for Solar Energy Windows and Smart IR Switchable Building Technologies in Pennsylvania, by Senate appropriator Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), and Reps. Jason Altmire (D-Pa.) and Michael Doyle (D-Pa.);
$41,500,000 for three projects funding presidential libraries: $22,000,000 by Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), and Reps. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.) and Edward Markey (D-Mass.) for the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston, Massachusetts; $17,500,000 by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), and Sens. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) for the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library in Hyde Park, New York; and $2,000,000 by Senate appropriator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas) for the Lyndon Baines Johnson Presidential Library in Austin, Texas.
HR On Your Desktop lists other outrageous waste by our representatives in Congress.
You can find many more examples of pork barrell spending at CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT WASTE, where they have just released the PIG BOOK for 2009.
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“This is not about creating jobs. This is the exact opposite. This is all about rebuilding the Democrat Party into an unbeatable entity. It's about remaking the United States of America without the Constitution as the guiding light.” ~ Rush Limbaugh
RF... Isn't that so
August 3, 2009 - 00:04 ET by bigtimerRF...
Isn't that so special from Kay?
Personally, I hope she does not win for Gov. of Texas...unless of course she is the only choice for the repubs.
I have never, ever, cared for her all that much, I'm like 60/40 with her...anyway, thanks for the info.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Two things really amaze
August 3, 2009 - 05:03 ET by RR GOPTwo things really amaze me:
1. No matter what stupid a@@ things this administration/Congress says, does, or doesn't do there's no dearth of Libtard sycophants all over the MSM and the internet saying how wonderful they are (and how much George Bush sucked of course).
2. That Dear Leader's personal poll numbers haven't plummeted.
We're being carried along with a stampeding herd of sheep to our doom.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
follow the money
August 3, 2009 - 07:16 ET by AJBThis program is all about payback to the unions. We take money by force using the IRS and then give it to the auto industry. They have eliminated any choice I have in how to spend that money in order to pay the unions for their support of Obonzo the Simp. Now I can't afford healthcare premiums because they've taken my money. Those bastards! They've killed America!
I swear, the goal of the
August 4, 2009 - 15:57 ET by GrannyGrump42I swear, the goal of the "Cash for Clunkers" is to remove reliable used cars from the market so that poor people are unable to buy them, and thus lose their jobs and end up on the dole, supposedly voting Democrat.
That car was nicer than the one I'm driving. And I have welfare-to-work clients who would probably cry if I showed them that -- a car that could have enabled them to get a job, just gratuitously destroyed.
Market forces take the "clunkers" off the market as people upgrade their vehicles as they can afford to. But now there's gonna be nothing in between the $1000 rust buckets and $5000 cars that poor people can't afford.