Wikipedia, which allowed verb tenses for their Tim Russert entry to be changed from present to past tense about a half hour before the official announcement of his death, is suddenly going ultra legal in its refusal to allow their John Edwards entry to be updated with mention of the alleged scandal which was reported in the National Enquirer with many of the details confirmed by Fox News. Suddenly Wikipedia has become a stickler for confirmation detail before the Edwards entry can be updated. To get an idea of how much Wikipedia is twisting itself into a pretzel to justify their refusal to update their John Edwards entry, one needs only to look at their pained, but comedically entertaining, discussions of this matter in their "Tabloid scandal accusations" section:
As many are aware, Edwards has been accused of scandalous actions by a supermarket tabloid. As per Wikipedia's policy regarding biographies of living persons, including information about the tabloids claims is inappropriate at this time because the tabloid does not qualify as a reliable source and current reports in more reputable news sources do not confirm the claims, only reporting the fact the tabloid has published claims about Edward's actions. The same policy that prevents inclusion of the accusations within the article also prevent details from being included on this talk page.
So who was the "reliable source" who updated the Tim Russert entry to reflect his death before it was officially announced? It turned out to be a junior level employee of NBC. A case is then made for confirmation by the mainstream media:
If the mainstream media picks up the story and verifies the claims of the story, not just reporting that the tabloid has made certain claims, then inclusion of this accusations will be appropriate.
Actually, Wikipedia, there was confirmation by Fox News. They did something relatively rare for the MSM by doing some footwork and interviewing the security guard at the Beverly Hilton hotel who confirmed many details of the story reported in the National Enquirer. Someone then asked if there is a list of reliable MSM sources:
Is there a list on Wikipedia of which mainstream media outlets are considered 'reliable' and which media outlets are considered 'tabloid', or is it up to individual users interpretations? Is USA Today 'tabloid'? Is the Drudge Report 'reliable' or 'tabloid' in its individual articles? Is Wikipedai 'tabloid' or 'reliable'?
It turns out that there is no such list of reliable sources upon which Wikipedia depends for confirmation of a story but that everyone should hold off on trying to post anything about it despite the scandal being discussed all over the web:
There is no list of good (nor bad?) sources. However, while the Enquirer's use of anonymous, and paid sources diminishes their wiki-reliability, we should take into account that there is actual first hand reporting on this story. The Enquirer may be "tabloid trash" but they are not always wrong - sometimes they have broken real news stories. On the other hand it is wikipedia policy that exceptional claims require exceptional sources, in particular there should be more than one primary source. So everyone that is trying to add this material should hold off for a while: this "breaking story" is not fully "broken", and as such doesn't belong in an encyclopedia (yet).
Wikipedia then gets on their high horse about a "tabloid source":
Considering that these accusations: (1a) are from a tabloid source that (1b) pays it sources and (1c) often makes false claims; (2) are extraordinary in nature; (3) do not list the accuser; and (4) most definitely does irreparable harm to a politician's career, they are absolutely inappropriate for Wikipedia anywhere... talk pages, articles, or anywhere else. I'm not usually a fan of trimming information via WP:BLP, but this is exactly the type of situation WP:BLP guarantees protection against.
This is followed by a commenter who knocks this claim down a few pegs with inconvenient facts:
In response to point (2): The claim is not "extaordinary. It is the kind of claim made often, and often proven true. In response to points (1b) and (3): there is no "accuser," but there are named witnesses; the only "paid" sources used by the National Enquiere in this case are the paper's own reporters; there are no anonymous sources.
Furthermore, as of tonight, the story is being carried by the Los Angeles Times, Independent (UK), Times (of London, UK), Hartford (CT) Courant, FOXNEws, Philadelphia Inquirer, New York Magazine, etc. Here is an important point about the story, from the Hartford Courant coverage:
"Edwards later issued a brief statement criticizing the tabloids. He didn't address the love child story, though it was the right time to deny it if it isn't true. Whether it's true or not, his behavior was bizarre for a potential attorney general."
Now, is THAT notable? I think so. But if not, at what point -- after how many "reliable" papers take up the story? -- will Wikipedia deem it notable?
The liberal bias of Wikipedia is later exposed when one of their editors, Blaxthos, accuses Fox News of bias as justification as to why it can't be considered a reliable source:
Indeed, we have a notoriously unreliable source making an extraordinary claim. The one security guard who "confirms" the story admits he did not recognize the Senator until later, coupled with the National Enquirer's reputation for paying for stories, is questionable. The Slate.com story, as others note, points out that this is not reliably sourced. FoxNews.com, bias in hand, has only pointed out the claim made by the Enquirer. As Kelly says, this needs some excellent sourcing and stability before we can consider adding it to a BLP.
So Fox News has "bias in hand" according to this editor. This sparks a great response:
Blaxthos, You're an extremely choosy editor. You assume Fox News bias and make a call based on that. What about NY Times bias? The NY Times has been cited to consistently despite the FACT that it IS, in fact, liberally biased. What I'm going to enjoy about this controversy is seeing irrefutable proof presented to the likes of you, Gameamial, and Will BeBack and watching the three of you egomaniacs attempt to weasel your way out of being forced to include it in this Wikipedia entry. And I WILL enjoy watching it because it's only a matter of time before the infallible truth is made public and you three will have to eat crow.
Yes, we are all already enjoying the spectacle of Wikipedia comedically twisting itself into knots to justify the exclusion of any mention of the alleged John Edwards scandal. Something we don't think would have happened had Edwards had the "odious" (R) after his name.
This was only a small excerpt of the entertaining Wikipedia discussion of this topic. I recommend everyone read it for themselves since it continues to be updated and serves as a great example of liberal bias in action on the part of Wikipedia.
H/T: Rush Fan
—P.J. Gladnick is a freelance writer and creator of the DUmmie FUnnies blog.















Comments Policy
Countdown
July 28, 2008 - 05:56 ET by TexndocWell, this is the week The Enquirer should put up or shut up. We've read the story, and know since they were well prepared for their unscheduled meeting with Edwards, that they didn't leave the cameras at home.
You are so right. In an
July 28, 2008 - 10:28 ET by goldbarYou are so right. In an age where pictures are everything, why can't they produce a photo? They've had death photos of Elvis, John Lennon, Ted Bundy--all of which had to be incredibly difficult to get, yet Edwards who is a sitting duck, they come up with bupkis! They, better than anyone should have been prepared if what they're claiming is true.
As far as the wiki entry goes, the operative word is "alleged".
As a former Wikipedia
July 28, 2008 - 06:18 ET by FoolicanAs a former Wikipedia editor, I lament that you are on the outside looking in. The National Enquirer is, indeed, considered a HIGHLY unreliable third-party source for supporting of stories, and the criteria of "reliable source" through an independent third-party reputable source must be satisfied before consideration can even be taken into keeping the given information, such as:
As an occasional reader of both
July 28, 2008 - 06:24 ET by sarcasmoI have to ask the following question: "and this distinguishes the Enquirer from the NYT how, exactly???"
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Equirer from NYT
July 28, 2008 - 06:29 ET by allanfWell the Enquirer is actually more reliable than the New York Times in such matters. Just witness the McCain allegations about an affair with a lobbyist. The Times had only innuendo.
In fairness ti Wikipedia, that information is not included in its biography of McCain.
But as relates to the Enquirer, on stories involving someone of the stature of Edwards, they usually have the guy dead to rights.
Not at all, sarc
July 28, 2008 - 06:39 ET by Cool ArrowThe two entities have different motives for publishing factual and sensational news, but only one seems bent on achieving any semblance of journalistic neutrality.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Fox News
July 28, 2008 - 06:27 ET by P.J. GladnickAnd confirmation by Fox News of part of this story by interviewing the Beverly Hilton security guard? So because other media outlets refuse to even investigate, this should all just magically go away?
Lefties should look to Enquirer history for this one
July 28, 2008 - 06:35 ET by sarcasmoConservatives relentlessly attacked the Enquirer's status as a reliable source for about 2-3 days when they scooped the rest of the media & broke the "Limbaugh bought hillbilly heroin from his maid" story, but their attack went limp as more & more factual support for the story emerged. The exact same thing is now happening with the Edwards defenders on the left, while a certain libertarian laughs at the process. My advice? Emulate what conservatives did, and drop the reflexive attacks on the Enquirer, which busted your guy but-good whether you like it or not.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
*News* Stories The National Enquirer Broke
July 29, 2008 - 08:42 ET by Free StinkerSarc,
Thanks for the reminder. The Enquirer broke the Limbaugh prescription drug story and the Gary Hart/Donna Rice story . . .
Maybe I should start a list . . . ;-)
/Update/
"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)
And check out Wikipedia's entry for Rielle Hunter...
July 28, 2008 - 06:43 ET by trak65Oh wait....there isn't one! Not even an innocent, affair-less entry mentioning that she is the former girlfriend of novelist Jay McInerney, who cited her as the inspiration for a character in his novel "Story of My Life." Hmmm.
Well played
July 28, 2008 - 06:50 ET by FoolicanActually, the article was never withheld; it hasn't even been created yet. If you think it's notable and verifiable, go right ahead and create it - as long as you have reliable sources to back it up, it should stand its ground against the deletionists.
How does one know?
July 28, 2008 - 06:58 ET by trak65Interesting point. I'm not a Wiki expert....how do you check whether an article was withheld or deleted? It surprises me that nobody tried to create one (even before the alleged scandal stories), but I guess it's possible.
It's easy.
July 28, 2008 - 07:06 ET by FoolicanSearch the "articles for deletion" archives. Or, go into Advanced Search, and type the following criteria: "Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rianna Turner" or "Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Rianna Turner." An article or page with the same name should appear in the search results if the page exists.
You can, of course, search for Rianna Turner under talk pages (discussion pages for appropriate articles), or Wikipedia space pages (discussion pages for general issues, such as POV or conflict-of-interest). As I have not searched for those results, I cannot fathom a guess at the kinds of results you will find in doing so. Wikipedia has been around for several years and the archives have many layers.
Postnote: I will state that, in light of the fairly recent Giovanni DeStefano deletion, Wikipedia has no obligation to delete any content when threatened with legal action unless such content is libellous and unsourced. As John Edwards is a comparatively powerful political figure, we may see a change in consensus here.
Rielle Hunter was mentioned in the "Story of My Life" entry
July 28, 2008 - 18:52 ET by Jim TreacherThat is, until Gawker linked to it today:
http://gawker.com/50...
(See the last paragraph.) Since then, if you look at the History page for that entry, there's been a bit of an edit war. Those Asperger's cases are keeping busy. Apparently her very existence must be kept secret. Weird, huh?
I noticed that too. It draws you another Wiki page:
July 28, 2008 - 19:50 ET by trak65Winston Smith is a fictional character and the protagonist of George Orwell's 1949 novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. The character was employed by Orwell as an Everyman in the setting of the novel, a "central eye ... [the reader] can readily identify with" [1]. Winston Smith works as a clerk in the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth, where his job is to rewrite historical documents so they match the constantly changing current party line. This involves revising newspaper articles and doctoring photographs — mostly to remove "unpersons," people who have fallen foul of the party. Because of his proximity to the mechanics of rewriting history, Winston Smith nurses doubts about the Party and its monopoly on truth.
If you are using a
July 28, 2008 - 10:30 ET by goldbarIf you are using a rent-a-cop as your sole source for what is potentially a huge story, you're not a news organization.
"sole"???
July 28, 2008 - 10:39 ET by sarcasmoMore like "latest." And the same was said by conservative defenders about Rush Limbaugh's maid, after attacking the Enquirer didn't work, so keep doing exactly what conservatives tried & failed to do, because you'll fail too. My role is to mock you (and re-mock them) while it's happening, and you're making it easy by repeating recent history. :)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
excuse me goldbar?
July 28, 2008 - 13:52 ET by candanceAn eyewitness is an eyewitness. Last I checked this wasn't feudal Europe where a witness' testimony was tempered by their social standing. He's either lying or telling the truth regardless of his employment.
You should really hope you're never in a situation where your fate hangs on thetestimony of someone with a lesser career - or God forbid a homeless person.
Another liberal shows their true colors as an elitist.
Hotel security: Bad source
July 28, 2008 - 19:06 ET by Jim TreacherUndercover cop who was assigned to wait around in airport men's rooms for guys to hit on him: Good source
Well, gee...
July 28, 2008 - 07:05 ET by c5thenAnd yet articles and statements about McCain, G.W. Bush or almost any other conservative are posted without any of the above cited 'safe guards'. Wikipedia is so one-sided to the left that it make the NYT look neutral.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
But don't you know
July 28, 2008 - 07:11 ET by Free StinkerBut don't you know Wikipedia is more accurate than Encyclopedia Britanica?
Someone on the web said so.
/Sarcasm Off
Where's Foolican?
July 28, 2008 - 10:28 ET by nofateWhere's Foolican when the discussion turns to the NYT being allowed as a "reputable" source, vs. Fox, "bias in hand"???
Foolican? Hello! Hello! Hello! silence of the wiki's.
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
I apologize greatly, for I
July 28, 2008 - 11:38 ET by FoolicanI apologize greatly, for I do not sit at my computer for twenty-four hours a day surfing NewsBusters. I certainly do not doubt that Fox News is a reputable source, but remember that on Wikipedia, ordinary people decide through consensus whether an article is notable enough for publishing, and whether it holds encyclopedic weight.
Apologies all around, BUT
July 28, 2008 - 12:45 ET by nofateI apologize too, for as you said, "I do not sit at my computer for twenty-four hours a day surfing NewsBusters". Nor do I, but, in your comment above, you said
yet you are now saying to me, "remember that on Wikipedia, ordinary people decide through consensus whether an article is notable enough for publishing". I'm wondering if, during your tenure as a "former Wikipedia editor" you were also considered an "ordinary people"? And are you saying that the ordinary folks decided to hold off on the Edwards story? Did the consensus driven ordinary people decide if "the criteria of "reliable source" through an independent third-party reputable source" was met? Or was this an editorial decision made by the not so ordinary editors? Just curious.
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
In context, "ordinary" means
July 28, 2008 - 13:09 ET by FoolicanIn context, "ordinary" means a non-bureaucratic decision.
But DaveS asks a good question below...
July 28, 2008 - 13:28 ET by sarcasmoIs there one "ordinary" Wikipedia/news-media standard for supposedly non-bureaucratic decisions regarding the National Enquirer as a source for scandal material, or two? It's lookin' just a bit like two, no??
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Wikipedia was not relevant in 2003
July 28, 2008 - 14:48 ET by PopularTechSimple answer - Wikipedia was not relevant in 2003.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Good point.
July 28, 2008 - 15:05 ET by sarcasmoSo I guess the fairest and most relevant by time comparison for a potential scandal/nonscandal is Wikipedia's behavior regarding McCain's blond female telco lobbyist who apparently wasn't also a mistress despite insinuation to the contrary. The problem is, on that story, the insinuation came from the NYT, which begs my original NYT-vs-Enquirer sourcing question.
IMO the Enquirer these days doesn't seem to feature so much of their former paranormal tabloid fare (aliens, bigfoot, etc.) now that they've taken to nailing political types. OTOH the NYT has if anything drifted towards abnormal, if not the paranormal, in their take on the news.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Translation = The Truth Based on Who Edits Last
July 28, 2008 - 13:17 ET by PopularTechOrdinary people decide based on who edits an article last what is "true".
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I believe that Wikipedia
July 28, 2008 - 12:50 ET by Kenny BunkportI believe that Wikipedia has a liberal bias. However in this argument, I will take their side. For comparison, if you look at John McCain's entry, you will see no mention of the "almost scandal" involving his aide from earlier this year.
Also, if you look at the reference section for John McCain, you will see that there aren't any citations from tabloids there either. Probably the closest would be a reference from The Nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain#cite_note-0
Having said this, it makes it more inexcusable that the MSM refuses to pursue the rumors. They did pursue the rumors about McCain and his aide.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&hp&oref=slogin
To Wiki's credit this has been omitted from McCain's entry. It does, of course, point to the double-standard in the MSM's reporting.
A gun in your hand beats a cop on the phone.
Foolish MSM
July 28, 2008 - 06:44 ET by billbThe foolish MSM should run with this story...it elevates Edwards to the Clinton level.
Obama’s Election - One Giant Leap for Mediocrity
July 28, 2008 - 07:32 ET by ZachJonesIsHomeThe Enquirer does seem to break a lot of stories. This media double standard is rediculous.
I am amazed that so many Americans are willing to allow
Obama to take the US
down a path that will cripple us. Please consider: Obama’s Election -One Small Step for One World Government - One Giant
Leap for Mediocrity found at:
http://zachjonesisho...
zachjonesishome.wordpress.com
wikipedia
July 28, 2008 - 08:54 ET by candanceSlightly off topic, but did Wikipedia ever find out who mentioned Chris Benoit's death before the cops even knew?
As for the Edwards thing, is it possible to search their archives and see how they handled the John McCain story?
Oh you can "search" wikipedia, doubt you will conclude much
July 28, 2008 - 10:34 ET by PopularTechOh you can "search" wikipedia, or rather look through the massive archives of every edit and try to make any sense of it - good luck!
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Huh!?
July 28, 2008 - 11:16 ET by nofatePT: vicariously happy that someone else had as much trouble as I did. Copied Foolican's directions to another tab to make sure I was following them to the letter. I just got done with spending 20 minutes searching for "rush limbaugh drug story" and was able to find nothing related to that search other than in the main "rush" page. There it stated that National Enquirer broke the story on Oct. 3, 2003. The original Enquirer story is not linked, but there is a link to a CNN story with the following headline (copied):
Limbaugh mostly mum on reports of drug probe
From Susan Candiotti
CNN
Saturday, October 4, 2003 Posted: 5:49 AM EDT (0949 GMT)
5:49 am? It did not take CNN very long to make confirmation, did it?
I am unable to figure out how to follow the Enquirer/Wiki timeline, so if someone more savvy than me is interested, I'd love to see the results.
BTW, PT, thanks for the set of links below this. Also, love those global warming links. They are toasty reading for when boredom sets in.
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
Oct 5, 2003
July 28, 2008 - 12:37 ET by DaveSIt was apparently first mentioned on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rush_Limbaugh&oldid=1545520">Oct 5, 2003</a>.
You can go to the history, go to "earliest", then "next 50", and you can follow the edits there after the Oct 3, 2003 NE article.
In their defense, as of Oct 5, 2003, other media outlets had moved to confirm the story. With the Edwards story, the media is ignoring it, giving Wikipedia the excuse they need to disallow it. I could almost back Wikipedia on principal and blame the media on this, but FoxNews should be sufficient.
Is that some sort of Wikipedia inside joke?
July 28, 2008 - 14:57 ET by PopularTechSince when did Wikipedia rely on something only being talked excessively about in the MSM for it to be added to a page? Stuff is added all the time that is pure fiction, at least this has a source. Simply stating the Enquirer "alleges" would suffice. Funny how the utopian propaganda of free knowledge gets thrown out when politics are in play.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Candance
July 28, 2008 - 13:31 ET by Kenny BunkportThat's a good point. Although Wiki currently makes no reference to McCain's "affair", we don't know how they handled it when the story was "breaking". I suppose you could go through the edit history. Haven't tried that yet.
A gun in your hand beats a cop on the phone.
The Joke that is Wikipedia
July 28, 2008 - 21:54 ET by PopularTechWikipedia continues to be the laughing stock of anyone that seeks reliable information...
The Faith-Based Encyclopedia (Robert McHenry, Former Editor in Chief, the Encyclopedia Britannica)
The Wikipedia FAQK (Wired)
A Contributor to Wikipedia Has His Fictional Side (The New York Times)
- Bogus boy's departure puts trivia at risk (The Register)
- Fake Wikipedia prof altered 20,000 entries (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
- Wikipedia 'expert' lied about qualifications (The Inquirer)
- Wikipedia 'professor' is 24-year-old college dropout (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
A false Wikipedia 'biography' (USA Today)
- Snared in the Web of a Wikipedia Liar (Canada Free Press)
Australian politicians 'doctor Wikipedia entries' (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
- Howard row over Wikipedia edits (BBC)
CIA, FBI computers used for Wikipedia edits (Reuters)
Congress caught making false entries in Wikipedia (CNET News)
Dutch Justice Ministry to Block 30,000 Workers From Using Wikipedia (FOX News)
Dutch Royals Caught Revising Wikipedia (FOX News)
Insider Editing at Wikipedia (The New York Times)
- Wikipedia founder modifies his bio (CNET News)
'Knight decorated for bravery' exposed as footsoldier in call centre's front line (The Time, UK)
- Meet The Real Sir Walter Mitty (Daily Record, UK)
- Mcilwraith Entry in Wikipedia (Daily Record, UK)
Seeing Corporate Fingerprints in Wikipedia Edits (The New York Times)
Wikipedia attacked by Nazis (The Inquirer)
- Website denigrates Wiesenthal (The Age, Australia)
Wikipedia Entry on Ken Lay Mighty Confused for 45 Minutes (FOX News)
Wikipedia Falsely Reports Sinbad's Death (The Washington Post)
Wikipedia lambasted for plagiarism (The Inquirer)
Wikipedia used to spread malicious code (USA Today)
- Wikipedia gives you malware (The Inquirer)
Wikipedia 'Vandalism' Entry Vandalized (Information Week)
Wikiscanner reveals source of edits (Taipei Times)
"A UN computer is identified as the source of an edit that calls a respected Italian journalist a promiscuous racist, Wikiscanner also identified a BBC computer as being used to change US President George W. Bush's middle name from "Walker" to "Wanker." A computer belonging to Reuters news service is listed as adding "mass murderer" to a Wikipedia description of Bush."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT- “Laughing stock”, Funny YOU should write that...
July 29, 2008 - 22:05 ET by Abe_JeffersonYou of all people should not be calling Wikipedia a "laughing stock". Your use of a list of articles is a joke. You attempt to take down GW by listing a hand full of articles that contradict it. As if that's enough to repudiate the 1000's of legitimate studies and articles testifying to the existence of man made GW. You stated Marijuana has no health benefits then you list articles that contain contradictions to that statement. Once again your list contains irrelevant articles and contradictions to your point, that Wikipedia is a laughingstock. "The Faith-Based Encyclopedia" is a good history, explanation of what it is, and critique of its shortcomings. Of the other 19 articles there are 7 repeats. That leaves 12. Ken Lay -Corrected w/i 45 minutes. A testament to it's ability to be accurate despite the fact that anyone can edit Wikipedia. Plagiarism - Not about reliability. Malware - A potential problem for many websites. Nothing to do with reliability. Vandalism - Innocent obvious joke. No effect on reliability. It is a sign of vulnerability. But if that's among the best you can do, that's an indication of its overall reliability. Wikiscanner - is about Wikiscanner's ability to aid in rapid correction of errors. This leaves 7 articles about false entries. The total number of errors mentioned in all 19 articles is about 1500 (rounded upwards), and all corrected. Wikipedia has 2.4 million articles in English. Even with the unfair equating of entries to articles on Wiki, that leaves a .9994 % reliability according to PopularTech.
If your going to make such extreme statements: Wikipedia is a "laughingstock", "the legions of idiots who rely on Wikipedia for information", "It is simply impossible to trust anything on the (Wikipedia") page", you really need to provide more than the embarrassing lame attempt you made to back up those statements.
My point here is not to defend Wikipedia so much as it is to rightfully discredit your laughable lists.
Abe...
July 29, 2008 - 22:13 ET by Clear thinkerYou know damn well that wiki is unreliable. I hope you never try to use the moniker of "Honest Abe" as it would just add to your list of lies.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
PopularTech:
July 29, 2008 - 22:17 ET by Free StinkerPopularTech: 1
abe_jefferson: 0
Dishonest Abe's Propaganda
July 29, 2008 - 22:50 ET by PopularTechAbe, you think I have a handful of articles? Try THOUSANDS! You are correct though I really don't think I have enough and need much, much more!
Please list all these studies that explicity prove the existence of AGW.
These are merely articles news worthy enough. They don't even scratch the surface but give a clear example of the problems with Wikipedia. Please don't propagandize this list in some meaningless statistical analysis, it makes you look like a fool.
Since you have failed to discredit the list you can now try to answer my questions:
1. If Wikipedia is so accurate then why would anyone ever need to make corrections to it? The pages should simply be locked for all eternity in their current perfectly accurate state.
2. Who decides who a "good editor" is? How are their qualifications determined? (anyone with an internet connection can edit any Wikipedia page at will and anyone can create a Wiki account)
3. How do you determine if a page is "good editor" corrected or "bad editor" inaccurate?
4. What is the time frame for a "good editor" to correct a page and how is this time frame determined?
5. If more then one "good editor" wants to make completely different changes to a page who wins? Could it be the last one who edited it? But which is the truth?
6. If more then one person is "watching" a topic for changes and they both want to make completely different changes to a page who wins? Could it be the last one who edited it? But which is the truth?
7. Are there more expert or non-expert people with Internet connections on a certain subject that can edit that subject's Wikipedia page?
8. With no value assigned to level of expertise for editors per Wikipedia page how is the accuracy of the edits determined?
9. How is a "neutral point of view" determined on Wikipedia pages and who makes this decision? Could it be the person who edited it last? How is this a "neutral point of view"?
10. At the time that you are looking at a page how do you determine it's level of accuracy?
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT....Keep Listing, I'm using them
July 29, 2008 - 22:19 ET by JayTeeWhile Every PT Ariticle posted is not the Cream of the Crop, there has always been some Gems in your GW posts....I remember the BEST one was from a very intelligent Scientist, with a Video of him (can't remember his Name).
Now this Guy was a Professor, but he was NOT a smooth talking cool walking experienced presenter, he was horrible/ He was like a Debate Trainee that was taking the course for the 3rd time....but his Facts were absolutely right on, and he managed to get thru the Details in a clumsy manner that was definitely not ready for Prime Time....but you knew he was REAL, and his Facts shredded Al Gore and his GW followers.
WE all cannot be Hollywood Video Directors, be we have to hear both Sides of any story....blaming the messenger is infantile.
PT Rawks.....
The Republican Revolution will not be Televised
What irony
July 28, 2008 - 11:07 ET by inmypajamasWikipedia protests that the National Enquirer is not a "reliable" source. Well, my kids are not allowed to use Wikipedia as a reference source in research projects at school because of its lack of reliability due to its constant content wars. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (Sorry, was that racist?)
More
July 28, 2008 - 11:48 ET by Cooperhttp://www.conservap...
I wonder...
July 28, 2008 - 12:32 ET by DaveSHow long did Wikipedia wait to allow mention of the Rush Limbaugh story which was broken by the National Enquirer?
It does not matter because Wikipedia was not relevant in 2003
July 28, 2008 - 14:52 ET by PopularTechIt does not matter because Wikipedia was not relevant in 2003. The reason this matters today is because of the legions of idiots who rely on Wikipedia for information.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Reading the Wiki-Debate
July 28, 2008 - 12:57 ET by RbastidReading the Wiki-Debate thread is pure comedy gold. They get to the point where they state that because a non-reliable source first ran the story then all sources afterwards are just copying the story and thus aren't reliable.
So if the Enquirer ran, lets say, the Death of John Paul II first wikipedia would state that its unreliable even after they have his body in the ground.
Just add this to the Wiki Editor changing the information on the Global Warming Alarmist turned Global Warming is BS speaker who wasn't allowed to change his own info, or the piles and piles of fake write ups they put about Fox News and flase hysteria they cause.
"As per Wikipedia's policy
July 28, 2008 - 12:58 ET by ckc1227"As per Wikipedia's policy regarding biographies of living persons,
including information about the tabloids claims is inappropriate at
this time because the tabloid does not qualify as a reliable source"
Wikipedia calling someone else unreliable?
Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are.
Absolutely,,,,,,,,,,,
July 28, 2008 - 19:28 ET by general companyAbsolutely,,,,,,,,,,, updating the wiki is not useful work, they will soon be irrelevant the more false info they accept.
We have an in-house wiki that is just as unreliable, new info does not "erase" old or incorrect info. Chances are the original poster is not keeping up with his previous thoughts.
I hate the damd thing, a lot of the technical info is BS
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Wiki is what Wiki is
July 28, 2008 - 21:31 ET by Kenny BunkportI use Wiki all the time as a reference. It's a very handy first source for information. It's especially useful for answering quick questions about cultural and media events. [When did so and so die, what was that movie about]
As far as technical and scholarly questions, it's still a good place to start. If you want something convenient and relatively informative you go to Wiki. If you want a definitive and indepth explanation, you go somewhere else. Compare going to Wiki to getting fastfood vs. a fancy restaurant.
You don't go to Wiki to write a paper about circuit design or the causes of the French Revolution. But it's still worth reading the entries. They can serve as refresher courses or give you some inkling of a subject. Sometimes when you are looking for Ohm's Law you don't want to try to wrestle the information out of a EE textbook. You just want a simple explanation.
A gun in your hand beats a cop on the phone.
Wikipedia is simply convenient nothing more
July 28, 2008 - 21:58 ET by PopularTechOutside of convenience the only thing Wikipedia can be used for is links to real sources. Frequently simple things like dates ect.. are wrong. It is simply impossible to trust anything on the page.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Unfortunately, Wiki is
July 28, 2008 - 22:11 ET by RESTLESS 1Unfortunately, Wiki is usually the first or second result, thus spreading it's sway even more. Even if used for links, they have to be verified as well. I have used it, but like you say, it is convenient, nothing more. If you have little knowlege of the subject at hand, you can't be sure the information is correct.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I agree with all the
July 28, 2008 - 22:33 ET by Kenny BunkportI agree with all the shortcomings you all ascribe to Wiki. However this is not Wiki's fault per se. The problem is most people don't know how to do research or understand how to use the information they find.
Wiki is a tool. Like any tool it can be misused or overused. A carpenter can tell when to use a mallet, a claw hammer, or a finishing hammer and he'll use them appropriately. A regular Joe will probably use a claw hammer for everything with poor results. But the carpenter will also tell you that sometimes a claw hammer is just fine.
People have to be smart enough to use Wiki in an appropriate manner. I would agree that many people can't and don't do this. I don't fault Wiki for this.
A gun in your hand beats a cop on the phone.
That makes Wikipedia dangerous
July 28, 2008 - 22:48 ET by PopularTechThat fact that most people don't know how to do research makes Wikipedia dangerous since so many people rely on it. You do not have these fears of people picking up a copy of Britannica.
Wikipedia is a game that otherwise smart people do not understand.
The creators of Wikipedia are at fault for it's content, they are the ones who created it and the flawed system of editing it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Reliability is in eye of beholder?
July 28, 2008 - 16:26 ET by m4ster chiefOkay, I've read the article and all posts below.
I'm with Wiki on this one; forget the questionable eyewitness testimony of the security guard...when I wanted reliability, accuracy, and honesty, I always turned to Dan Rather. Of course, since he suddenly retired to "spend more time with family" or was it "to spend more time smelling the roses?"...(cough)... I now rely on Katie, Brian, and what's his name...the other news reader.