NYC Principal Bans 'God Bless the USA' at Kindergarten Graduation, Bieber's 'Baby' OK
America really is fading away before our very eyes.
A public school principal in New York City has banned kindergartners from singing "God Bless the USA" at their graduation, but according to the New York Post, is allowing them to perform Justin Bieber's "Baby":
A controversial Coney Island principal has pulled the plug on patriotism.
Her refusal to let students sing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation has sparked fireworks at a school filled with proud immigrants.
Greta Hawkins, principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School, won’t allow kindergartners to belt out the beloved Lee Greenwood ballad, also known as “Proud to be an American,” at their moving-up ceremony.
Five classes spent months learning the patriotic song, which skyrocketed in popularity after the 9/11 attacks and the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
It was to be the rousing finale of their musical show at the June 20 commencement. The kids, dressed up for their big day, would wave tiny American flags — which, as the lyrics proclaim, “still stand for freedom.”
But Hawkins marched in on a recent rehearsal and ordered a CD playing the anthem to be shut off, staffers said.
She told the teachers to drop the song from the program.
“We don’t want to offend other cultures,” they quoted her as explaining.
Catch your breath - there's more:
Department of Education spokeswoman Jessica Scaperotti gave The Post an explanation staffers said they never heard — that Hawkins found the lyrics “too grown up” for 5-year-olds.
The song starts: “If tomorrow all the things were gone, I’d worked for all my life. And I had to start again, with just my children and my wife, I’d thank my lucky stars, to be livin’ here today.”
Scaperotti said the department supports the principal’s decision. “The lyrics are not age-appropriate,” she said.
But Justin Bieber’s flirty song about teen romance, “Baby,” was deemed a fine selection for the show. Hawkins had no problem with 5-year-olds singing lines such as, “Are we an item? Girl, quit playing.”
Here are the full lyrics to the Bieber song in question:
You know you love me, I know you care
Just shout whenever, and I'll be there
You are my love, you are my heart
And we will never, ever, ever be apart
Are we an item? Girl, quit playin'
"We're just friends," what are you sayin'?
Said "there's another," and looked right in my eyes
My first love broke my heart for the first time
(Chorus)
And I was like baby, baby, baby, oh
Like baby, baby, baby, no
Like baby, baby, baby, oh
I thought you'd always be mine, mine
Baby, baby, baby, oh
Like baby, baby, baby, no
Like baby, baby, baby, oh
I thought you'd always be mine, mine
For you, I would have done whatever
And I just can't believe we're here together
And I wanna play it cool, but I'm losin' you
I'll buy you anything, I'll buy you any ring
And I'm in pieces, baby fix me
And just shake me 'til you wake me from this bad dream
I'm goin' down, down, down, down
And I just can't believe my first love won't be around
(Chorus)
When I was 13, I had my first love
There was nobody that compared to my baby
And nobody came between us who could ever come above
She had me going crazy, oh I was starstruck
She woke me up daily, don't need no Starbucks
She made my heart pound
I skip a beat when I see her in the street
And at school on the playground
But I really wanna see her on a weekend
She know she got me dazin' 'cause she was so amazin'
And now my heart is breakin' but I just keep on sayin'
(Chorus)
And these are the lyrics to "God Bless the USA":
If tomorrow all the things were gone
I'd worked for all my life
And I had to start again
With just my children and my wife
I'd thank my lucky stars
To be living here today
'Cause the flag still stands for freedom
And they can't take that away
And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you
And defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.
From the lakes of Minnesota
To the hills of Tennessee
Across the plains of Texas
From sea to shining sea
From Detroit down to Houston
And New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart
And it's time we stand and say
That I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you
And defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.
And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you
And defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.
And these are unacceptable, but "Baby" is fine for kindergartners.
You gotta be kidding me!
(HT RightNewz)
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— Noel Sheppard (@NoelSheppard) June 9, 2012
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Comments
Scary, for another reason
Submitted by Unsane on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:19pm.
My kindergarten "graduation" consisted of us kids sitting on the floor, and waiting for our names to be called in the classroom, at which point we all got our diplomas. I remember well taking mine home (none of our parents were there) and wanting it framed.
"God Bless the U.S.A" aside (they'll be banning it at military retirements soon, watch), please, pretty please, tell me they are NOT conducting full-scale graduation ceremonies for kindergartners.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I'm with you. You graduate
Submitted by balboa on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:55pm.
I'm with you. You graduate from high school, college, trade school, professional school, something like that. Not K, elementary, or middle school.
In my grandparents day...
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:27pm.
they had graduations after 8th grade because for economic reasons, many did not go onto high school. Eighth grade was considered an appropriate grade to stop schooling if one had to help support a family.
Having all these graduations before high school is ridiculous today.
how many graduations is really not the problem.
Submitted by hbnolikeee on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:07pm.
if some feel that it encourages these kids to want more education, what's the harm. it's banning that song and what doing so represents. they can have graduations for a baby's first solid bowel movement if someone thinks it's a good thing and i could care less.
Yes, the song is important, BUT -
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:54pm.
The day we start celebrating the mundane as if the person who did it swept the Nobels is the day you should be very fearful for society.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
So eighth grade was an"appropriate" grade to stop
Submitted by Delsa on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 10:08pm.
Tell you what Radical1979, I think for what is passing for education these days, we need to move to 2012 and stop at Kindergarten!
Nothing happening in school after you learn to swing a crayon.
Delsa
Submitted by Radical1979 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 4:02pm.
I don't know how appropriate it was, I think it was just the age where most kids were strong enough to go out and help support the family. Then again, my grandfather only finished third grade, but the man died with enough money that my grandmother could live on for another 20 or so years, with a tidy sum left over.
THAT was a great generation.
You graduated from
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:46pm.
You graduated from Kindergarten?
I did not have my first graduation until Junior High, (Middle School to you youngsters, 9th grade). What followed that was High School 3 years later.
Scub
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:48pm.
Isnt there someone you can sue for that? ;)
Oh My*
Submitted by cajun2 on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 11:01pm.
There was no such thing as kindergarten when I started school...We had "awards" for 8th graders heading for HS but not a real graduation ceremony. And my first summer semester of college, tuition was $47.
OK, hold onto your keyboards,
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 12:40am.
a friend of ours was all geeked, her son "graduated" from pre-school. He got a diploma and everything.
Lucky them...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 12:58am.
After we went through the appeals process, our son was granted a "courtesy" promotion to the first grade.
Jer
Hey Jer*
Submitted by cajun2 on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 3:16pm.
LOL...now that was a funny one and not at all surprised...;-)
Jer, did the "appeals process" require a donation
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 06/14/2012 - 8:36pm.
to the NEA? Curious minds, and all that.
Well, UpNorth, the way it was presented to us was covering the
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 06/14/2012 - 9:17pm.
expenses of the "emergency session" convened in the Dining Room at the Atlanta Ritz Carlton.
Jer
As long as it was for a good cause, Jer.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 06/14/2012 - 9:20pm.
.
Maybe the problem is the song
Submitted by ant on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:42pm.
Maybe the problem is the song lyrics mention States..and public schools are generally large failures in teaching geography. On the one hand, I just saw a news story on a 'wonderful' teacher that gets her exclusively black students to learn by having them shoot a basketball when they get a question...and such important, job-securing, promising-future type questions too....actual examples...what's the largest country in Africa? Name a country in Africa. How many countries are in Africa? That almost sounds racist....black AMERICANS have to know everything they can about Africa?...and in this jobless economy?...if the teacher wasn't black, I'd be tempted to say she was holding them back and doing them a dis-service and selecting questions solely based on their skin color.
According to the NY Post, its
Submitted by Arlen Cooper on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:50pm.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/school_silences_patriotic_so...
According to the NY Post, its
Submitted by Arlen Cooper on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:51pm.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/school_silences_patriotic_so...
According to the NY Post, its
Submitted by Arlen Cooper on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:49pm.
According to the NY Post, its much worse.
She called the school “racist” and declared: “I’m black. Your previous principal was white and Jewish. More of us are coming.”
Plain & simple she is an Anti-American, Jehovah Witness without any sanity.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/school_silences_patriotic_so...
thank you
Submitted by dmacleo on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:16pm.
that is interesting info :(
After hearing she was a JW I
Submitted by ricklail on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:38pm.
After hearing she was a JW I knew where she was coming from. She was imposing her religion on the kids. Then when I heard Justin What'shisname that made it worst. JW's are against anything wordly. Nothing more worldy than Justin What'shisname.
Is this the Publick Skool...
Submitted by ChrisNH on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 7:51pm.
...that sang, 'Barack Hussein Obama...Mmm...mm...m.?'
They're complaining because
Submitted by LinTaylor on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:27pm.
They're complaining because this woman is receiving hate mail. Considering her bald-faced attempts to shut down patriotism (which even immigrant families are fine with), are they at all surprised?
Not to mention the very chip-on-the-shoulder "I'm black, get ready for more of us" remark.
Meanwhile, these kids are considered old enough
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:28pm.
to learn about homosexual relationships?!
Crazy crazy world.
Just one more reason ...
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:41pm.
... to do away with the Department of Education.
Surely there is ONE parent at this school who is a cutthroat lawyer who will sue the ever loving Shiite our of the school, the school board, the teacher, the principal, the janitor, the mayor, and anyone else who happens to walk by.
These people want a war, they are surely going to get it one day soon, and it won't be pretty.
Civil War
Submitted by RealVet on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:11am.
It can't come soon enough. Frankly, it's already started.
<sound of duct tape ripping off roll>
Submitted by motherbelt on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:49pm.
They are teaching our kids that tolerance means not "giving" offense rather than not "taking" offense.
The Lee Greenwood song is "too grown up" for 5 year olds, but they understand the Bieber song?
Her argument loses any and
Submitted by Big TJW on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 8:56pm.
Her argument loses any and all credibility when you read Beiber's lyrics and get to a line discussing about when he was 13...
Last I checked, when you're 13 your a bit more grown up than 5, or older at least.
This stuff is good for the sea change that is coming.
Submitted by acaiguana on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:00pm.
There is no question that this egregious behavior on the part of school administrators and educators will in fact add to the fire of change that is coming.
Obama promised change; the Tea Party will make that change.
Obama down in 2012.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)
God help us all
Submitted by ohio granny on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:37pm.
Someone with this type of mentality leading?? our public schools do we really need to wonder why they are failing?
All I have to say is God help us all. We surely need devine intervention and we need it quick.
America isn't 'fading' - it's
Submitted by Slyrr on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:47pm.
America isn't 'fading' - it's just being divided along ideological lines. And it's clear where the lines are being drawn, and by whom. And when it all hits the fan, it will be clear which camps of people will flock to each side.
The anti-americans who want to destroy the country and rebuild it in their own image will be among the media, the teachers, the big science community and leftist politicians. They are the secret society that just isn't secret anymore.
Make no mistake, they'd love another civil war, because they think they'd win. They think, because Hollywood is all on their side (and they are the primary image makers) that they have superior numbers.
When they actually instigate a battle, they'll be stunned to learn how small their numbers are compared to those who love this country and will fight to protect it and the Constitution.
Just like they were in Wisconsin. They really thought that 1% of the population (even the brutish Union thugs) would overpower the real 99%. They failed miserably, and will again.
Too grown up for five year olds??
Submitted by Delsa on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 9:58pm.
Are you kidding me?
This yahoo should be X Principal...
What about God Bless America?
Things are so out of hand in these taxpayer funded re education camps.
Something has got to give.
It would be terrific if the
Submitted by Jerry on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 10:28pm.
It would be terrific if the crowd broke into a spontaneous spirited rendition of the song and kept repeating it until the principal removed herself from the ceremony.
What kind of warped mind deems a song about honor, sacrifice, family, pride, and patriotism as inappropriate while "baby, baby, oh baby, like baby, baby, oh baby, like baby" is included in the program (for what reason I cannot fathom)??
Maybe they can show the movie
Submitted by craig1304 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 12:58am.
Maybe they can show the movie "Debbie Does Dallas" to go with the lyrics of Bieber's song. Sounds like the principal has Bieber Fever.
How did I know this hag was
Submitted by LAM SON 719 on Sun, 06/10/2012 - 11:34pm.
How did I know this hag was black without even reading the NY Post article? I recently I inspected a high school, and on every black teacher's desk was at least one leftist book or a "Oh woe is me" peice of black propaganda. Holder has done well.
This is precisely why my 8 year-old daughter is home-schooled...
Submitted by Sasquatch on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 12:48am.
Tomorrow is her last day of school before we take summer break. After reading this, my wife & I have decided to play/sing 'God Bless the USA' right after we recite the Pledge of Allegiance. If anyone shows up to object, they will learn about the First Amendment. If they continue to object, they will learn about the Second Amendment...
Racism
Submitted by RealVet on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:06am.
No doubt she supports black history month and kwanzaa in the school. In addition to being anti-American, she's also a racist. She was reprimanded after other teachers complained she called the school “racist” and declared: “I’m black. Your previous principal was white and Jewish. More of us are coming.”
The woman should not be working in the education system.
PS 90 Edna Cohen School
Community School District Office Phone: (718) 391-8313
Superintendent Isabel DiMola - idimola@schools.nyc.gov
There truly
Submitted by NYCMiddle on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:27am.
are times I detest living in NYC.
This would be one of them.
I'm with you there NYCM. I
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:38am.
I'm with you there NYCM. I am beginning to rethink buying a place here in SI, especially with Nanny Bloomberg wanting to intrude into what I eat or drink.
The underground market begins...
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:57pm.
Want me to smuggle some evil 20 oz sodas up there sometime?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Hey!
Submitted by Free Stinker on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:33pm.
You're cutting in on our action here in NJ. We already have plans to smuggle 20oz sodas into Manhatten via Bus, Ferry, and Train. ;-)
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
Hmmmm, should we looked to
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:41pm.
Hmmmm, should we looked to the business model that certain individuals used back during Prohibition?
Hey, maybe one of us might become the next Kennedy!! Oh wait, why would I ever wish that on my friends?
Back to the 20s!
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:49pm.
I think you can open up some Speakeasies on Staten Island. I'll be your exclusive supplier. Free and I will negotiate how to cave up other territories in New York City.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I also want Brooklyn. I have
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:53pm.
I also want Brooklyn. I have plans for Coney Island and Canarsie.
Sounds like a plan
Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 10:58pm.
You got it. More revenue for us. :) You'll hear more about the first shipment in an undisclosed location.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
The mob rules
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:47pm.
...and centuries from now, historians will write about how this exchange was the beginning or a brutal, no holds barred mob rivalry, over which crime family controlled the lucrative 20 oz soda trade.
:)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Really?
Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 12:37pm.
"We don’t want to offend other cultures."
How many "other cultures" will be attending a local kindergarten graduation ceremony? That's the lamest excuse for personal bias that I have ever heard. How do I know it's personal bias? That's obvious: The kids have been practicing this for months, but YOU were the only one who complained.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Second Lamest excuses
Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 1:27pm.
"The lyrics are not age-appropriate"
That's the second lamest excuse I've ever heard. Just what is "age inappropriate" about the lyrics?
What's that, you say? The lyrics are "too grown up" for kids of that age? What difference does that make? The performance isn't being done for the benefit of the kids. It's being done for the benefit of the parents. The kids don't care what they're singing, they just want to sign to their parents. They could be singing "Like a Virgin" or "La Boheme," and it won't matter. It's all the same to them.
You claim that you're doing this for the kids, or for "other cultures," but you're not. You're doing this for yourself, because YOU don't want to be "insulted" by the song itself. Well, hunny, how narcissistic of you! But this isn't about YOU, it's not about "other cultures," it''s not even about the school itself. It's about the kids and the parents. Let them have their day and keep your personal bias out of it. You have very little to do with it. SO STAY OUT OF IT!
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Kindergarten Graduation
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 1:53pm.
I'm 42, and I remember graduating from kindergarten. And yes, my mother was there. We dressed in graduation gowns, and it marked a significant day in my life: the transition from "baby" to "big boy".
This sort of "In my day" griping smacks of some psuedo-traditionalism with no principle behind it.
➚ You went to K-garten?
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 1:55pm.
Wow! What was it like?
Wow Cool Arrow*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 2:11pm.
Just think what we missed out on? This guy sure sounds like a "big boy" doesnt he?
In my day
Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:03pm.
Well, in my day, all we did was go home for the summer, only to return to the same school the next year. There was no "graduation," no "cap and gown" (Who's bright idea was that, the local tailors?), no "ceremony" of any kind, for it would have been rather pointless, never mind a complete waste of money. It's not like we weren't going to return the next year.
Think about it for a moment. What, exactly, were you commemorating? That you'd be coming back to school in a few months? WOW! That's quite an achivement!
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Again, the point of kindergarten graduation
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:39pm.
Not every school is the same. My kindergarten school was a different school than my elementary school, so in my case, I wasn't returning to the same school.
But even so, there is a big difference between kindergarten and elementary school, just like there is a big difference between high school and college. So to your question about what one is commemorating when one celebrates a kindergarten graduation, one commemorates the milestone reached in a child's life when they have grown up from all the games and nap-time of kindergarten and start on the road to a more mature education, where they are responsible for homework and take tests and the like.
Further, rather than being a waste of time, it provides a child an opportunity to model adulthood, rather than the other way around in this liberal society, where adults want to be like children. The kindergarten graduate models the adult graduate, in the same way as a child wearing a suit models an adult wearing a suit.
That's the point of kindergarten graduation: to celebrate a maturing moment in a child's life when they are ready for the rigors of elementary school.
Stop it! You're killing me!!!
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:47pm.
Man, we have some funny commentators here, but you are right up there with them.
"...opportunity to model adult behavior." That's some funny there boy.
"...to celebrate a maturing moment in a child's life." Whew, you got me rolling now. Just like potty training, yes? Big moments the whole neighborhood should celebrate.
What? You're not joking? Really???
~Chockful of comedic gems, no?
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:48pm.
.
Thought I'd stumbled upon " The Onion" for a sec. there.
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 4:17pm.
This guy couldn't come up with funnier satire if her were trying.
~"The rigors of elementary school"
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:48pm.
How unintentionally hilarious. I LOL'd.
Sorry guy*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 3:53pm.
But that all sounded like "psuedo-traditionalism" to me...
You are all pretty funny to me.
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 6:06pm.
If you are going to criticize kindergarten graduation, at least have some conservative or traditional principle for your argument. But as it turns out, even your "in my day" arguments are wrong, unless you are some very old people!
http://thiscircularparade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/27954v.jpg
Check out this cartoon, which references a kindergarten graduation. I don't have a date for the publication, but check out the clothes and the style of the cartoon itself. And by the way, Puck magazine stopped publication in 1918. So, you're arguing against something well in place in the early 1900s.
So yeah -- the satire belongs on your side, because you all sound like liberal caricatures of conservatives. I would expect your responses on an SNL skit.
so mattheus*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 6:22pm.
Since I did not attend kindergarten, you are saying that I am really really old or that I am a liar?
Good grief, you're missing the entire point of the post.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 6:37pm.
On what planet is a Justin Bieber song appropriate for a kindergarten ceremony vs the Star Frickin' Spangled Banner?
And the laughs started with your "rigors of elementary school" line, which I found to be Chris Hayes-like dramatic.
EDIT - this was to Mattheus, not you Caj.
➚ SOL
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 6:41pm.
"Ode To Michelle" by Sir Mix-A-Lot would have been nice.
no problem SoL*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 6:50pm.
This one, the funny is strong in this troll. Too bad he doesn't know history..Heard they don't teach American History anymore...LOL
Okay....
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:23pm.
I appreciate being called a troll. If you had called me a liberal troll, that would have really made my day, but no matter.
Funny that after I showed you proof of the historical nature of kindergarten graduation, you accuse me of not knowing history.
So who doesn't know history? Someone who asserts that there was no kindergarten when he was a child, unless he was born before 1900.
~Do you really think that there was a kindergarten class
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:43pm.
in every single school across the entire country for the entire duration of the last century? And that every single one had a graduation ceremony?
Excuse me, you dripped so much stupid on this thread I have to go wipe my feet.
I know what the article is about.
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:12pm.
It was the original posters that deviated from the main point of the post, and decided to go on this tangent about kindergarten graduation itself.
The "rigors of elementary school" was meant to be relative, not absolute. High school can be called "rigorous", but it isn't rigorous to someone with a Ph.D. Likewise, to a child graduating from kindergarten, elementary school would be "rigorous", but not to someone in high school. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Jer?
Submitted by bobsmom on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:17pm.
Is that you?
No, bobsmom. I've been busy trying to decipher the lyrics
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:56pm.
to Bieber's song.
Jer
Jer
Submitted by Radical1979 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:10pm.
Whatever you do don't actually LISTEN to the song. I hear your ears will never recover.
I care too deeply for Jer not to CONCUR
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:59pm.
I hear it at work. Constantly.
Torture.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Combat pay Uns
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 8:11am.
You should be getting combat pay.
Jer, old cousin of mine
Submitted by Mattheus on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:15am.
Okay, I am just joking. We are not related, (that I know of).
Still, I saw your thread regarding the use of the word "neocon". I liked your logical construction.
➚ Jer's cousin?
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:19am.
Man, you're doing some serious sucking up, aren't you?
And may I just note for the record, Mattheus...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:33am.
your careful marshaling of facts, irrefutable logic, and seamless advocacy have been devastatingly effective.
Jer
➚ Yes
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:39am.
What is this? "Some Enchanted Evening"?
For Pete's sake, Cool...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:44am.
Can't you allow a couple of libs to bask in the glow of mutual praise every once in awhile? It's such a rarity around these parts.
;-)
Jer
➚ You're right, I'm sorry.
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:47am.
I haven't observed the courtship habits of the American Loon since Kindergarten.
Now that you mention it, I believe that was the official reason
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:58am.
given for denying my son a diploma.
Jer
➚ Scarred for life
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 2:06am.
I never got over the class turtle floating "Tango-Uniform" in the class aquarium.
Speaking of turtles, Cool...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 2:15am.
did you catch the recent item about the male and female turtles who split up after 115 years. Can't blame Obama for the breakdown in amphibian morality...they were Austrian.
Jer
Of course it's Obama's fault, Jer
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 8:42am.
He was busy trying to find a marriage counselor who spoke Austrian.
Ah, whatever.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:37pm.
Although I have no distinct memories of it, I suppose being shoved down the old birth canal was REALLY rigorous, relatively speaking.
Although getting my tiny penis sliced the next day was probably a close second.
~I think it's safe to say
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 7:53pm.
It was rigorous for the one doing the shoving. If that isn't "labor" I don't know what is.
Bru, check your PM's.
Submitted by Scuba Dude on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:07pm.
Bru, check your PM's.
~Roger Wilco
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:21pm.
.
I'm sure not denying that
Submitted by SickofLibs on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:19pm.
On our last one, Mommy broke every blood vessel on her face. My dad, the WWII Vet, almost puked when he came to visit.
He said "OMG, can't they prevent that from happening these days???"
~Lord have mercy
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:12pm.
I sure bet that was your last one; it'd have been mine!
I've never had to push more than three times to get a baby out into the world, but I attribute that mostly to avoiding doctors altogether. When it comes to a natural process like that, the more they tinker with it the more they F it up.
There ya' go again*
Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 8:55pm.
Trying to change the topic because it was you who made the gaffe. Kindergarten was offered in private care centers or by local independent school districts until the 1960's. The Child Care Act then allowed the local and county school districts to offer kindergarten classes but again it was not mandatory nor state nor federal subsidized programs. Local school districts paid for this service that primarily had been offered by day care centers or nursery schools. Most of the local school districts charged a fee for attendance to the then described "preschool program " called kindergarten. So those of us who live in primarily small and poor school districts had no kindergarten programs. Most school districts then started to offer programs as part of the regular curriculum in the early 70's.
Until the 1970's, education subsidies from the Feds allowed more kindergarten classes, so the State Depts of Education made it mandatory. However, even today, there are some states that do not mandate kindergarten attendance. And there are lots of studies that show kindergarten attendance is very effective and beneficial to children from "poor" families. But there has been no formidable studies done to show that kindergarten is of any help at all to lower and upper middle class kids.
Now, again, call us old, really old, or liars. Those of us who have made comments about your posts have not argued against kindergarten. However, there are no studies to show that kids "graduating" from elementary to high school showed any significant performance differences from those having attended kindergarten. In fact, the generations before kindergarten, even before there were 12 grades, students performed academically well above the average performance of today. Part of the early kindergarten programs mandated that "volunteer parents'" be a part of the kindergarten program. Now it is all "qualified" teachers.
"Graduation" ceramonies are not nearly as important as the level and quality of education nor as essential of quality care and guidance from parents. It isn't about the pomp and circumstance, its about the quality and foudation of education that makes or breaks a 5 yr old entering the rigors of elementary school
What gaffe?
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:34pm.
You didn't qualify your statement. If you had said, "there was no kindergarten in my neighborhood.", it would be different from, "There was no kindergarten.", which means there was no kindergarten at all, that it didn't exist. I just showed that the notion of kindergarten did exist as early as the early 1900s in the USA. I am just talking about the concept, which even in the 1900s was common enough that it was referenced in a cartoon in a political magazine.
And some of you seemed to think that kindergarten graduation was some modern fabrication. My link also showed this to be false as well. Now you can certainly argue about the nature of kindergarten from its conception to the kindergarten of today, which is closer to what this thread would have been about.
Some of you may have not been to kindergarten, or if you have been to kindergarten, not have had a kindergarten graduation, but that doesn't mean that kindergarten graduation is a waste of time. It doesn't mean that kindergarten is a waste of time.
It is a fairly old notion of kindergarten graduation as marking a milestone of a child's development, regardless of whether or not you scoff at such notions. My notions of the child graduation imitating the adult graduation also finds its support in that cartoon: the little girl is giving a graduation speech.
So you have your own personal opinion of kindergarten and kindergarten graduation. I had assumed that there was some sort of conservative or traditional principle against it, but I don't think this is the case now. It is just a personal opinion.
➚ Mattheus
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:51pm.
It's not that we don't believe K-garten existed back then, we just can't believe you're so set on making it some big rite of passage.
I get the part about it meaning something to the parents, but you glorify it as though it was finishing an MD internship at Johns Hopkins.
It's not just me....
Submitted by Mattheus on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:28pm.
It's a fairly traditional notion of kindergarten graduation that it was a big enough deal.
1956 Kindergarten graduation:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kindergarten+graduation+1950s&view=d...
1954 and 1955 Kindergarten graduation:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kindergarten+graduation+1950s&view=d...
The children are all wearing caps and gowns. I'm expressing a rather traditional, conservative view of kindergarten graduation as something significant and important in a child's life.
Here is a 2011 Kindergarten graduation
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-NK0YFYyCnrg/Tf345ayShUE/AAAAAAAAG_w/B0qOLwqMB0E/s1...
This too, I believe is from a Catholic school. While there are no gowns, they are wearing caps, and most of the boys are wearing ties.
Your notion that it is not a big deal to graduate from kindergarten seems rather liberal. The notion of a NYC teacher allowing Justin Beiber to be sung denotes the lack of seriousness that you agree with.
http://elcmilford.com/2011/06/11/kindergarten-graduation/
Above is a more "modern" kindergarten graduation. You can note the relative lack of seriousness that this graduation has. No gowns, casual clothes, and caps that look like they were quickly made of oak tag. Plus, a "backwards alphabet rap". Perhaps this is more your frame of reference to assert that kindergarten graduation is no big deal, but it wasn't traditionally the case.
~I haven't seen anyone devote this much time
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:33pm.
to something so trivial since that one doofus went on a foot-stomping, flag-waving rant defending the honor of Tinkerbell.
It's the icing on the K-garten graduation cake.
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:47pm.
I can't believe he can't let this go.
Hey guys*
Submitted by cajun2 on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 12:09am.
Do any of you get the feeling that mattheus may be related to Jer?
➚ Cut him some slack cajun
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:20am.
Kindergarten was the best three years of his life.
Interesting, cool...
Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 06/13/2012 - 7:54am.
Are you suggesting that when he heard he would graduate from kindergarten that he got so excited he cut himself shaving?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Before you get more bent out of shape
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 9:14pm.
That would be me who went off on a tangent, because I couldn't pass up the opportunity to do so.
At my kindergarten graduation, though I do not know what I wore that day, I have narrowed it down to two things:
1) The tennis outfit that was my tip o' the hat to Jimmy Connors (my parents were big into tennis those days)
or 2) a t-shirt and jeans.
Because back then, I figured people saw the folly in going all out for a KINDERGARTEN "graduation". Why in the hell would anyone shell out the bucks on a cap and gown for a five/six year old? Seriously?
Maybe other people can explain that to me but I don't get it.
I wanted nothing at all to do with my high school graduation, and thinking about that time just makes my eyes roll, but logically, it makes sense to have one because that's the highest level you can rise in public "schools". So I get that. But for any other level of public "school"?
My last day of fifth grade consisted of a party and my fifth grade teacher personally assuring me I wouldn't make it past sixth because of my handwriting. (She'd be pissed at seeing the degrees I have on the wall! :) )
My last moment of eighth grade consisted of the principal announcing, more or less, "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. You have five minutes to get off campus, you disgusting inconveniences."
No ceremony or celebration, because they'd all be wastes of time. Why should there be? You are going right back to school in three more months, as another poster pointed out.
Now, let's swerve back to the topic: yes, I think that taking out Lee Greenwood's song, which actually exhibits 1) effort 2) talent 3) forethought 4) originality and replacing it with tripe with less creativity than could be found on a Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, N'Sync or Christina Aguilera album, is stupid in the extreme. I'm leaving topic again: one thing I positively loved about kindergarten and day care were all the women who looked after us and taught our classes bringing in their albums and letting us hear them. I learned to love and appreciate music there and have carried that off to what some would argue extremes. Going back to topic: two things trouble me here: one, dumping a perfectly good song, and two, a kindergarten graduation. SERIOUSLY? If you are going to do one, at least have them the way mine was done.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Seems to me that,
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:45pm.
A nice, in-class party would suffice. With enough big-ass sugary drinks to make a NY mayor faint, and sugary snacks to attain the appropriate amount of vengeance upon the parents. Oh, and a loop of "God Bless the USA", just to make liberals weep.
I have to admit, Mattheus here has me rolling on the floor. This guy is too much.
Links proving his point put it over the top. It's really not that important.
Not bent out of shape
Submitted by Mattheus on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 1:06am.
Just surprised at some of you who take this odd stance regarding kindergarten graduation. I'm not even a parent, and I understand the significance of it, as did generations before me. I don't know for sure if any of the naysayers are parents, but it's a little disconcerting to think that some of you may be.
Your personal experience of kindergarten graduation seems to be born of a liberal approach. My reply to Cool Arrow with links shows that traditionally, it was thought to be a big deal with a tone of seriousness. Children in general were brought up with more seriousness. That is a conservative, traditional approach, which I assumed, because this is a conservative website, that it would be appreciated.
Those links do tie in with the "real topic", the notion of creeping liberalism in graduation celebration in general.
So I find it very odd that on a conservative website, I am expressing the conservative, traditional viewpoint, and there is such an objection to it.
Do you own a Volt?
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 2:21am.
I did play spin the bottle on my 6 grade graduation...
no cap er gown..
It was at Joan's home her folks had a microwave.
You Didn't Build That.
That's twice in one thread, Mattheus, that you ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 4:24am.
have implied that you are more conservative than those replying to you.
Opinion, obfuscation, or just bullshit?
MD
Things I can live without.
Submitted by Karma on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 6:54am.
Grammy's. Golden Globe. Presidential Inaugarations. Olympics opening and closing. Tony's. Academy awards. Emmy's. Nobel. Oscars. Polls of any kind. etc, etc, etc..........graduation ceremonies.
I tend to give a pat on the back and/or a personal note to those who's achievements effect me in a positive way or are family or good friends.
Conservatives can differ on their views of pomp and circumstance, but to me, ceremonies tend to dole out praise and adoration in liberal doses to those that don't concern me or, on occasion, to those who effect me in a negative way. You are not expressing a conservative viewpoint. You are expressing a viewpoint.
Mattheus...
Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 06/12/2012 - 11:15pm.
I fail to see how this topic falls under "liberal" or "conservative".
To me personally, as I have explained to my parents, there should have been a law passed on the day I was born forbidding me from going to ANY graduation unless I was graduating with a Ph. D. Personally, I can't think of a more boring, overrated thing to go through. Especially in the case of high school, but I could have not attended my bachelor's graduation and missed a very boring speech that nearly put me to sleep.
Is this a liberal or conservative position? No. It's just how people look at things. For that paragraph I just typed, there will be people thinking I am crazy because graduation is SUCH A BIG DAY, THE BIGGEST OF YOUR LIFE!!! (Eh, not really. I think the biggest days of most people's lives are completely inceremonial and in fact in many cases are lost to the mists of time.)
Trust me when I tell you that my kindergarten graduation - which was, looking back from my perch these days, perfectly fine (blowing money on a silly ceremony is much less important than what was accomplished, as cajun said) and perfectly serious - is not indicative of how serious my childhood was. I was brought up with more seriousness, all right. Military brats tend to be brought up with a tone of seriousness that doubtless you would approve of.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)