MSNBC: Americans Just Don’t Pay Enough Taxes – Period!
If you had the misfortune of watching Weekends with Alex Witt on MSNBC Saturday morning, you sadly were treated to four minutes of propaganda about how we Americans just don’t pay enough taxes – period!
CQ Roll Call’s David Hawkings was invited on to misinform the gullible about Americans’ tax rates being too low, corporations shirking their tax responsibilities, the poor paying more than conservatives contend, and, of course, the rich not paying their “fair share” (video follows with transcribed highlights and commentary):
“If you take all the taxes paid in the United States and you compared them against other countries, the U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy among developing countries,” said Hawkings. “About one out of every four dollars in the whole economy is paid in taxes. That’s lower than any other country in the developed world. In Denmark it’s as high as about 50 percent.”
I realize this might seem like an odd question, but what is the goal of a capitalist system? Is it for the citizens to pay the highest taxes possible or for them to build their own wealth?
If the goal is the former, I’d suggest even Denmark is failing: why stop at 50 percent?
But here in America, which was founded by former British citizens escaping the King’s confiscatory taxes, we have historically strived for the tax burden to be as low as possible, even as low as zero during peacetime.
Yet Hawkings seemed a bit confused about our tax history saying, “If you compare the U.S. taxes now to where they have been historically, lower than almost any year in recent memory. The income tax has been around for about a hundred years. For about half that time the tax rate has been higher than it is now for the top earners.”
Well, that means that half of those roughly 100 years, the tax rate for top earners has been lower. Now add the 100-plus years prior to that and taxes on the most successful are now actually higher than they’ve historically been.
Not surprisingly, such logic escaped Hawkings and Witt.
When the subject of what America’s poor pay in taxes surfaced, Hawkings said, “Conservatives point out that in fact as many as half of Americans in the last year paid no income taxes, no traditional IRS income taxes. But let’s remember that nine percent were unemployed, some are elderly and disabled, and almost all the rest of them pay those payroll tax deductions that we see in our paychecks that come out for Medicare and Social Security.”
Yes, but according to the Congressional Budget Office, in 2006, the bottom quintile in the nation paid just 0.8 percent of all federal taxes collected including income, payroll, excise, and corporate.
That’s right: the poorest 20 percent paid only 0.8 percent.
By contrast: the richest 20 percent paid 69.3 percent; the richest ten percent paid 55.4 percent; the richest 5 percent paid 44.7 percent, and; the richest one percent paid 28.3 percent.
Maybe more importantly, as can be plainly seen from the following CBO chart, what the poor have been paying has been declining since 1979 while what the upper-earners have contributed has steadily risen:
Not surprisingly, neither Hawkings nor Witt brought this up either.
But what did surface, of course, was the fiction that the rich just aren’t paying their “fair share.”
“Historically, the top one percent of Americans pay a big chunk of the taxes,” said Hawkings. “Conservatives say in fact they pay about a quarter of the taxes, but they make 40 percent of the money. That much is true, but again, like we were talking about a minute ago with the corporations, the rich have an enormous advantage in terms of their deductions. They can deduct their capital gains taxes, they can deduct charitable donations. They have a better job with their accountants and in some cases their own lobbyists keeping their tax rate low.”
Maybe so, but what Hawkings dishonestly ignored is that with all that, the rich still pay more as a percent of both taxable and adjusted gross income than lower wage earners.
The IRS tables for 2009 show folks making $200,000 or more paid between 26.3 and 28.6 percent of their taxable incomes. By contrast, those making less than $200,000 paid between 17.8 and 22.1 percent.
As such, the progressive nature of our tax code – meaning folks that make more pay more – is still quite intact in America despite the carping and whining of liberals about the rich not paying their “fair share.”
If only it were required that actual real tax percentages reported by CBO and the IRS be included in such discussions.
It would make it much more difficult for the Left to continually propagandize the nation about who is and who isn’t paying taxes.
- Noel Sheppard's blog
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Comments
Aren't they just preaching to their own choir.
Submitted by Lipton on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 2:31pm.
What are the latest ratings on this trash network.
Same Old Song and Dance
Submitted by Kleenex on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 2:39pm.
Lefties have to say this because there's no other way to keep all the social programs going. This is par for the course on MSNBC which is more of a propaganda network than a news network. It's the Comedy channel turned hard left.
LIES!
Submitted by Scott Trent on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 2:44pm.
The top 1% earns about 19% of the income and pay about 40% of all Federal Income taxes collected. How do liars like this guy make it on tv and lie like this? Unbelievable.
My personal for damn sure
Submitted by rockyracoon on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 2:57pm.
My personal for damn sure opinion is, that MessNBC exists solely for the purpose to lose money for GE in order for them to write off those losses as a balance to their profits, in order to pay the minimum amount of taxes due the Federal Government. As many of us know GE paid zero in corporate taxes, last year. So it stands to reason that they want all of us to make up the difference.
Simply put PMSNBC is a promotional propaganda arm of the Demoncrat party masquerading as a news source and it is an added benefit, for them.
Facts are like kryptonite to the liberal.
Rule No. 1. Never trust a man who wears a bow tie!
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:00pm.
"U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy among developing countries." That's a good reason to raise them? Then we can be as screwed up as the rest of the "developing nations?"
Most of the countries in the world are run by Socialists, Communists, Fascists, or just plain old run of the mill tinhorn dictators. The USA should change?
Oh ... wait! We are in the process. My bad.
I have to confess. I think I'm probably part of the 1%, or at the very least the 5%, as most of the rest of you are if you figure it out. I didn't start out to end up this way, but I couldn't help it. Getting up, going to work everyday, having at least three different careers that paid off, taking risks, and making decisions that worked out (mostly knowing when to hold'em and when to fold'em) all contributed to my slide into the dreaded 1%, or 5%, whatever. I've paid more in taxes in one year than all the vermin in Zoo-cottle Park in NYC combined. I am a baaaaaaaad person.
You know what? I don't care! I decided last night that I don't give a Shiite what liberal slack asses think of me. They can kiss my ascot. The epiphany occurred last night as I sat in a private club, with lots of other "bad" people having what was my third drink, and I looked around and decided that these people and I weren't bad people. Most of us had hired lots of other people so that they could make a nice living, get into position to do something bigger if they wanted to risk it, and raise their families to be useful citizens.
I looked at the wait staff and the bartenders (especially the bar tenders) and thought about when I had those exact same jobs growing up, trying to make money so I wouldn't be a burden to anyone else, as I tried to figure out what the hell I was going to do next. I suspect a lot of you did the same thing at some point in life. I thought about how Shiite out of luck they (and I, years ago) would be if SOMEBODY didn't make money, hire people, pay taxes, and spend it so that there would be jobs for others.
So I quit feeling bad about what I have done in life, and decided to start thanking every rich person I meet for making this a better country for all of us. Instead of paying more taxes, I'll just tip even bigger, the people I am lucky enough to come in contact with in life who don't mind WORKING for a living, and hoping to one day be a member of the evil 1%, or 5%, whatever!
Wo-wo-wo-wo-wo Bubba!!! You
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:36pm.
Wo-wo-wo-wo-wo Bubba!!! You wear an ascot, and you're making fun of somebody who wears a bow tie??? But otherwise, good post. Listen, I'm definitly not in the upper percents...............but I do 'own' my house and surrounding property, and I've busted my okole to get there - and I STILL have to keep busy to keep it!!! (Hey, if I had listened to my dear old Dad, instead of surfing, playing rock'n'roll, and other memorable activities............I'd be 'retired' right now - but I'm not going to make any excuses or blame anybody for that decision).
But my view on taxes has pretty much always been the same - although it's definitly been excaserbated lately. I KNOW that I've got to give some pound of flesh to the local, state, and federal governments (as well as the never-ending myriad of other stealth and hidden taxes that we end up paying for, non-stop)..........but - given the way that I see how it's spent - I'm going to make damn sure that they don't get any more out of me than is neccessary!! Does that make me UN-AMERICAN??? Somebody tell me, OK??? I've had to to a lot of similiar tasks - being self-employed - that the government does.........and I've had to do it with my own budget, and pay for everything involved, and hoped to end up with enough 'extra' money to keep for myself. Oh - I guess that sounds selfish, huh??? I've never had the luxury of being able to tax somebody else, or print more money, or just expand my budget on the spot, to do a job..............and if I have to BORROW money to complete a job - then you allready KNOW what the result is going to be.
So, yeah.......call me UN-AMERICAN because I want my tax burden to be as small as possible. I STILL think that I can spend my own money better than the government can. And as I said to ol' Clevie-Poo last week - I'm just as good at 'spreading the wealth' as Boy Barry is...................except that I do it with my own damn money!!!
Very American
Submitted by Kleenex on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:49pm.
You're very American! Like most of us you simply want to keep what you earned. Lefties consider that a crime but based on what? The communist manifesto which teaches that citizens can't own anything unless the state lets them.
citizens can't own anything
Submitted by Huapakechi on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 8:09pm.
The subjects (not citizens) don't even own their own lives in a socialist society.
Killa, you're a true American!
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 4:11pm.
I consider it the duty of every red blooded American to keep as much of the money they make as they possibly can. After all, the politicians consider it their duty to separate you from as much as possible, so if that's the game, play to win, Killa!
As for the remark about me wearing an ascot, now I'm glad that I called you "Loretta" once! You have hurt my feelings all the way down to my Gucci's.
Just think, if you'd listened to your dear old dad, you'd have worked all your life and ended up old and rich and too tired to surf and play rock and roll, and especially too old for "other memorable activities." Money ain't worth the paper it's printed on if you ain't having fun along the way!
Sounds to me like you have had a pretty good plan all along, brudda.
Yeah, meat............I
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 4:53pm.
Yeah, meat............I REMEMBER that Loretta comment - hahahahahahaha!! Hey........you should hear what my friends and employees (well, when we have work!!) call me!!! Loretta is a compliment!! And you know that type of people I reserve the use of the word 'meat' for, right?? Actually - I used to call my soccer boys AND girls that - occasionally!!!
Actually, my dear old Dad was super smart, super ethical, and super conservative.......and played by all the rules. He had great disdain for 'brownnosers' and people who weren't motivated, hard-working, and honest. But he was old-school............growing up poor, and then dealing with the Depression and WW 2 and the Korean War...........and having to raise four 'knuckleheads', with me being the hardest of the lot!!! But I do think that he gave me some modicum of respect for my independance and following what I wanted to do - because I always stayed out of trouble (thanks to good lessons from my parents) - and I managed to 'get somewhere' - in spite of myself!!! But he did pretty well for himself - and my Mom is enjoying a good life because of it - and I probably should have taken more of his advice in that area.
But..........you know............surf, music, girls......................it was hard to concentrate!!! Hahahahahahahaha!!!
PS - I figured that the ascot was part of your Fantasy Fest outfit - and you WEREN'T wearing it around your neck!!!!!
If I wore it around my neck ...
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:42pm.
... It would be called a neckcot!
Yes the more paper you can ship them the better.
Submitted by upcountrywater on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:27pm.
One irs customer GE filed and sent 57,000 pages.
Very patriotic.
Do your part.
The other 2 prongs of the triad of wealth confiscation is: Fees and Fines.
Just once I'd like to hear a politician yell, No new Fees!
You Didn't Build That.
What about 'Penalties and
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:46pm.
What about 'Penalties and Interest'???? That's a pretty good 'revenue enhancer'..................if you owe money to the IRS, you're better off borrowing it from the Mafia!!!!
Read my lips 'No new Penalties and Interest"
Submitted by upcountrywater on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 6:04pm.
Ever run afoul of the SMA gang? (Special Management Area).
Now we be talkin serious fines.
You Didn't Build That.
Yeah, I hear that the SMA is
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 7:00pm.
Yeah, I hear that the SMA is murder.......................and I got a registered letter once - threatening me with a $10,000 fine for burning limbs, weeds, cuttings, etc..................on my own piece of property - which ISN'T in a neighborhood!!!!
Wow Lau lau, Just tell em It's a cooking fire.
Submitted by upcountrywater on Sun, 11/27/2011 - 1:56pm.
Just be sure you toss on some rocks and call it an Imu....
Oh wait; a friend of mine in a beach house, got fined $50,000 for moving some rocks. The "rocks" were broken concrete dropped off there in the 60's.
You Didn't Build That.
" it isn't that the people
Submitted by reddwhite on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 9:14pm.
" it isn't that the people are taxed too little, government just spends too much"-Ronald Reagan
We pay a huge amount in
Submitted by rbosque on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:03pm.
We pay a huge amount in taxes. What is wrong and unConstitutional is that we are being forced to pay for an ever-increasing nanny-state that is soaking all working Amercians to the point where our GDI, GDP are hurting and as a result of idiotic domestic fiscal policies, we are constantly broke. All no thanks to greedy and corrupt politicians who's only goal is re-election while we tax-payers are left holding the bag.
Spending is outpacing revenue by 1.1 trillion dollars and rising, with a debt burden of over $30,500 per household. Unemployment benefits alone consume 20.8% of our budget and this one statistic can be minimized just by having a pro-Capitalistic policy which includes lowering the tax rate and give businesses incentives. Instead, this administration is doing all it can to do the opposite and destroy our economy through idiotic wrong-way Socialist policies which DO NOT work. We couldn't have a worse President at the worst of times. This financial crisis is deliberate and purposeful.
Amen to that!
Submitted by jon_torlin on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 4:24pm.
You're right, the financial crisis as deliberate, and as for a worse president, how do you get much worse than a Manchurian candidate who is on a mission to destroy America from day one? Even before Day One, he said he wanted to transform America, and he's succeeding!(for those of you in Rio Linda, this is what Rush wanted to have fail)
Hell, I think he's worse than Benedict Arnold at this point! And the Dems are complicit too!
After all, what do you have leftover when you're taxed for everything down to your last dollar, which is what it'll amount to in the end?
-Jon
-----Obama is the reason why stupid people shouldn't vote.-----
Submitted by thestalkinghorse on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:35pm.
This is why I will not be satisfied to merely turn President Obama out of office. Those who voted for him must have their voting privilege revoked for at least three election cycles, or age 35 whichever comes later.
Odds of MSNBC hiring TWO female moonbats named Alex?
Submitted by SickofLibs on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:04pm.
100%.
What's next? The government
Submitted by ant on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:24pm.
What's next? The government just doesn't spend nearly enough money?
True story,
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:39pm.
True story, ant.................how else could you justify 'spending our way out of a recession'????
been there done that
Submitted by Tjexcite on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:50pm.
Read anything about the stimulus by Krugman and many left commies say that it did not work because it was not big enough and the government does not spend enough.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/on-the-inadequacy-of-the-sti...
Like somebody recently said,
Submitted by ant on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:55pm.
Like somebody recently said, Obama's 'stimulus' is like jump starting the battery of a car that has had the engine removed. Sorta like Cash for Clunkers, now that was a sign of 'smart power' right there.
ant, The good news is
Submitted by upcountrywater on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 6:30pm.
The starter motor, will operating with less energy, per revolution, increasing the time between battery charges. So very green ;-)..
Lots of examples for motor-less automobiles Wealth destruction: cash for clunkers...The starter motor is still good.
You Didn't Build That.
Wow, upcountrywater
Submitted by ant on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 9:39pm.
1,900 comments and none of the ones I read are fans of O and his policies. How out of touch are the media.
Never any discussion about WHERE the $$$ will go
Submitted by ChrisNH on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:38pm.
Of course the Left beats their drum (and other appendages) about 'higher taxes.' But incongruously, they never seem to care much about WHAT that money will be used for. Waste & Fraud? No worries for these Leftists! They just want 'mo guv-mint money' without having to defend the eventual outlays of that money. It's quite plausible that Leftists want more tax revenue so they can do more 'Solyndra-like' things with it.
Yep. Never any mention in the
Submitted by ant on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 3:51pm.
Yep. Never any mention in the media about how the 'sefish' Americans' money is being spent on terrorist 'heroes' in the Mid-East, or LaRaza gringo haters, just to name a few. Meanwhile, American Thinker has an article on Obama's decision to cut loose 147 US Air Force officers right before retirement and deny them their pension. I guess they should have joined the SEIU.
Hmm
Submitted by compguytracy on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 4:22pm.
Didn't hear any disparraging remarks about NBC shirking their tax obligation. Wonder why.
"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?" Orwell, 1984
Ceteris paribus
If
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:44pm.
Oops
The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave
Submitted by thestalkinghorse on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 5:44pm.
The United States of America did not have an income tax for most of its history and the founders expressly denied the congress the powers to lay and collect taxes.
Ya the taxes levied during
Submitted by reddwhite on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 9:48pm.
Ya the taxes levied during ww2 were supposed to go away, but we needed money for our military build up.
Not that I really blame them though. The only reason there hasn't been another world war is that we have the largest most powerful force the world has ever been witness to holding them all back.
I mean hell we had to take over the world and give it all back 2 times, at that point isn't it just prudent planing to make sure we won't have a 3rd time?
We can spend enough now to force peace, or we can pay in blood lives and much larger pile of gold later.
I don't agree with this school of thought, however I find it hard to argue with the results.
Imho I think we should pull back our navy( LARGER THEN THE NEXT 17 LAGEST NAVIES IN THE WORLD COMBINED) and let all these America hating ingrates remember why they wanted us around, and then we don't come back unless they pick up a sizable portion of the costs seeing how it is their defense not ours we are talking about.
Is this the program that
Submitted by Free Thinker on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:29pm.
Is this the program that comes on before the prison show?
Hmmmmm...
Submitted by Unsane on Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:39pm.
Maybe this is why the news media in the United States by and large simply refuse to report what is going on in the world. This way they can portray Europe as an Eden where citizens gleefully pay most of their income in taxes because they know that in exchange their governments will thoroughly pamper and baby them.
Never mind that even after all that onerous taxation, they are STILL in debt up to their eyeballs. Never mind that because of all that pampering and babying and taxation to pay for the pampering and babying, the nations of Europe are by and large has-beens that are all Going Absolutely Nowhere. The media in this country are all hoping and praying that you don't notice.
Unfortunately for them I have been too exposed to the Outside World and thus, I know better. Not to mention, there is one other place people could look to see just how wonderful things are in Europe: CNBC. The live reports from Greece this past spring were especially telling. (Psssst...Greece is everything the Left and the media wants this country to be like.)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Europe is not Eden
Submitted by Kleenex on Sun, 11/27/2011 - 2:31am.
I'm with an international company and we recently had a German guy here (he's in his 30's) for about 6 months to help on a project. He said he now has to privately fund his own pension because the govt money that was supposed to be there has been spent already. I'm sure this won't be reported at all. Germany is not doing as well as the media would have you believe.
okay-as a real 99%er
Submitted by JIMMY1660 on Sun, 11/27/2011 - 9:30am.
making less than $350,000.00. Paying taxes up the wazoo, may i say:
"those 47% folks who pay no Federal Taxes-wake up-the piggy bank/cookie jar is almost empty."
we real 99ers are tired of covering your marker.
said earlier-getting out of bed each day working and doing all the "right" things-no more!!!
we quit. once we quit, you are cut off-we will survive always have. you can go live under a bridge and rot.
Liberals in Government will run out of our money-and you will get cut off there as well.
Starve out the takers.
Liberals in Government you will be taken out of office-the money you have stolen shall be recovered,then you will be thrown in prison.
Moral and legal is the key words.
Insider Trading is illegal-no matter who you are.
I can remember..
Submitted by Mark81150 on Sun, 11/27/2011 - 2:22pm.
Being proud when as a boy I became a "taxpayer", and two decades later, being shocked that I at least at the IRS level, became a non taxpayer.. wha... I mean, no one like paying taxes, but I firmly believe, we ALL should pay something, no matter how limited, else, we become disenterested in what others pay, as long as we don't have too...
I'm disabled now, on social security,.. and I'm sick to my stomach over the class war hate being espoused by morons in my name.
When "fairness" becomes a codeword for,... buying votes with confiscated income.. when some rich are given a pass, because they donate to leftist politicians and causes. When entertainers and sports figures can rake in hundreds of millions and be left alone.. while investers and bankers are berated as evil money grubbers, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with "fairness", or the rich paying their share.. they more than do that now. Only an idiot would argue they are just an untapped resource, then exclude the leftwing supporting rich,.. it's just a con game,
I don't hate Bill Gates, nor envy him,.. or any of the uber rich, what galls me no end is rich white liberals thinking that having an I-pod and laptop are necessities, and the route to a good paying job is to trash public places and demand one...
I hate these occupiers with the same nova like heat I reserve for all malrat gold card socialists, pampered, spoiled and demanding.. they have a college education, but aren't smart enough to find work, or understand the evils of the socialism they crave.. it's not fairness they want,.. it's control. They want the right to victimize anyone they disagree with, either through tax policy, or through a thugs baseball bat,.. they're scum.
Once they called it Fascism
Submitted by donabernathy on Sun, 11/27/2011 - 4:45pm.
now they just call it public private partnership....
roflmao
Certainly Americans' tax
Submitted by ant on Mon, 11/28/2011 - 12:48am.
Certainly Americans' tax burden should be relieved, we have 20 million 'new citizens' from south of the border. Certainly, the taxes they pay must be a great source of increased revenue. No?... Hmm.... I notice the press never figures 'illegal immigration' into tax debates. I wonder why?
Apparently Mockingbird S-N-B-C-I-A thinks...
Submitted by BobAnthony on Mon, 11/28/2011 - 7:48am.
The 16th Amendment is legit. GOT NEWS FOR YA FOLKS...IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN LEGALLY RATIFIED, THUS MAKING IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
But then again most if not all the media hates the Constitution as it gets in the way of...wait for it neocons before you roll your eyes...
THE...NEW...WORLD...ORDER!
The reason the media is corrupt? Two words...OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD!
MOCKINGBIRD - The Subversion Of The Free Press By The CIA
Spam
Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 11/28/2011 - 8:15pm.
Sorry, Conspiro. It was ratified. If you want it gone, you are actually going to have to work at it.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)