George Will: 'You Couldn't Build the Hoover Dam Today Because' Environmentalists 'Would Stop It'
As government spending supporters in the media press for a new, bolder stimulus plan to get the economy going, they love to refer to the Depression Era Hoover Dam as a shining moment in Keynesian economics.
When this surfaced on ABC's "This Week" Sunday, George Will marvelously noted, "You couldn't build the Hoover Dam today because they'd discover a snail darter in the Colorado River and would stop it" (video follows with transcript and commentary):
JAKE TAPPER, HOST: Liz, how much of the current economic woes that we're going through right now do you think are the fault of domestic politics in this country? And how much is it matters that are out of our hands?
LIZ CLAMAN, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK: Well, we don't have jobs recovering, and everybody knows that, and that is a huge issue. So the speech is so highly anticipated at this point. We didn't really just get much clarity from David Axelrod on what it's going to say, but people are saying, where is our Hoover Dam moment?
Moments later:
TAPPER: We only have 10 seconds, George. You have a final word?
GEORGE WILL: You referred to the Hoover Dam, great achievement of the '30s. You couldn't build the Hoover Dam today because they'd discover a snail darter in the Colorado River and would stop it.
In fact, although MSNBC's Rachel Maddow uses the Hoover Dam in one of her "Lean Forward" commercials, she would be the first of the environmental media demanding an immediate halt to such a project if any species were found to be endangered by its construction.
Isn't it marvelous how Will can so perfectly expose liberal media hypocrisy in just ten seconds?
Bravo, George. Bravo!
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Comments
Hoover Dam ....
Submitted by NL207 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 1:50pm.
Stimulus has been tried before. Herbert Hoover, progressive nincompoop, tried stimulus. It didn't work. Boulder Dam construction began July 7, 1930, 2 years before Franklin Roosevelt ran on a platform of FISCAL RESTRAINT!! in 1932.
Hoover was a misguided fool. Roosevelt was a damn liar. Between the two of them, they produced a Great Depression.
Wow
Submitted by connect4 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:26pm.
Just--wow. Guess who didn't study history or politics in college? Your take on the Great Depression and Hoover is fascinating.
Wow
Submitted by connect4 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:26pm.
Just--wow. Guess who didn't study history or politics in college? Your take on the Great Depression and Hoover is fascinating.
Really?
Submitted by ontheright on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:55pm.
I guess the kettle calling the pot black applies here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover
"Hoover tried to combat the ensuing Great Depression with volunteer efforts, public works projects such as the Hoover Dam, tariffs such as the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, and raising the top tax bracket from 25% to 63% [1] " - We can see how that worked out...
Do your own homework; in your case, just another instance of public school failure.
here's a quick read, too.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 4:47pm.
Sounds a little bit like today...
http://isaacmmcphee.suite101.com/the-presidency-of-herbert-hoover-a55829...
You are on point.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Zzzzzzzzz.
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 08/26/2011 - 12:55am.
Looks like no one read your post or clicked on your link. It is like people really don't care about 50 time retread trolls. Hmmmm. But you keep on coming back. Mmmmmkay?
George, you snailed them
Submitted by DWoSD on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 1:51pm.
George, you snailed them again!
I wonder how many days--make
Submitted by kareling on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 2:03pm.
I wonder how many days--make that years--it would take Caesar to build a bridge across the Rhine today?
Shovel Ready Jobs
Submitted by eigafan on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 2:38pm.
I remember reading somewhere that during the first stimulus state workers had to scramble to meet the deadline for applying for stimulus funds for their road projects by processing piles of EPA paperwork.
Will nailed that one
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 2:55pm.
Will nailed that one perfectly!! There were probably a LOT of depression-era projects that wouldn't fly today for a variety of reasons. I doubt if the Golden Gate Bridge would have passed muster with all of the various 'anti-everything' groups that are floating around these days. And even if the project finally got off the ground, there would be quotas set for different races and creeds and genders of the workers, sub-contractors, material houses, and the rest of the categories. And, of course, there would have to be set-aside prayer times for the Moooooooooooooooooslems, and ethnic food catered to the 'guest workers' from other countries, and a big chunk of money paid off to the unions.............and, of course, you'd have the EPA, OSHA, and the rest of the government agencies lurking around at all times.............oh, and there would be an IRS office right next to the office of the general contractor who was doing the project, just to make sure that they government was receiving their 'ton of flesh' from a project that they were funding with taxpayer, borrowed, and printed money. Then they could brag about the 'revenue' that was produced as a result of this project.
Oh, one more thing - the bridge may take many years, and cost 10 times what the original estimate was.............but those overruns are 'normal' in these types of projects, right?? Yeah..........just try that in the real world of the private sector!!!
What is EVEN more amazing is ABC included a FOX News rep!
Submitted by gopcongress on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:05pm.
What is EVEN more amazing is ABC included a FOX News analyst on their board, albeit from the business network. I have never noticed anyone from FOX be treated as a guest on a mainstream news show, at least one with conservative-based values. This is actually far more notable than any clever rejoinders from George Will, who I ***just * can't *** accept as a tea party conservative by any means as of yet.
"The news and truth are not the same thing." -Walter Lippmann (1889-1974) FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER
Liz is NO conservative! I
Submitted by amyshulk on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 7:09am.
Liz is NO conservative! I *used* to watch her, until her habit of attacking from the left/framing the narrative from the left got old - so maybe 2 weeks?
Ronald Reagan
Ick. That screenshot! Could she make herself look any worse?
Submitted by Crimsonfisted on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:08pm.
If I came to work looking like that, and as haughty looking, I doubt I would have a job for long.
Reminds me, NS. Enviros blocked the protection for NOLA
Submitted by Gary Hall on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:17pm.
Following Hurricane Betsy's destruction of New Orleans, LA (NOLA) back in 1965.
Believe it, or not, this is from a LAT's article in 2005:
(;~> gary
like a broken clock
Submitted by spepper on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 3:18pm.
Like a broken hand clock, which is right a maximum of twice a day, some people are similarly as accurate-- this is one of those instances, with ol' George. He is EXACTLY correct about the EPA--their mission is to find stuff that will put a stop to anything beneficial to the people of the United States. And if they can't find stuff, they'll INVENT it-- and I submit their Exhibit A of inventions: manmade global climate change.
The solar energy projects are
Submitted by buddyc on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 4:04pm.
The solar energy projects are on hold and life support because of environmentalist litigation in Southern California. It isn't that they stop them. What they do is shake them down like Jessie and Al. They delay and bleed them. You can rape the environment you just have pay these gangsters to do it.
The single biggest difference between doing business in the US and China (according to numerous business clients) is no environmental and governmental shake downs.
You want to solve our unemployment problems. It is easy beyond belief. You just:
1. Temporarily (while you rewrite) suspend all Federal Environmental regulations on solar, hydro, nuclear, natural gas, coal, oil shale, tar sands and etc on the exploration and production of energy for 3-5 years
2. You temporarily suspend for 3-5 years the prevailing wage requirements on Federal projects.
3. During the 3-5 years you totally rewrite and streamline envirornmental bureaucracies, regulations and the like. You eliminate private lawsuits by the gangsters.
4. You fund 1 nuclear plant in every state.
5. You fund 2 new Hoover dams.
The unemployment rate would drop 2% in 12 months.
You want to solve our budget problems:
1. Freeze and roll back the budget to 2008;
2. If you need more revenue after doing that you reform the tax code eliminating some unproductive deductions or you let the Obama Tax cuts for the rich, the largest tax cuts for the rich in our history, expire accross the board on ALL citizens.
A poor student of history ....
Submitted by NL207 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 4:20pm.
"4. You fund 1 nuclear plant in every state.
5. You fund 2 new Hoover dams."
There were no nuke plants in FDR's time, but there were plenty of post offices, government buildings and schools. There was only one Boulder Dam, but don't tell that to the Tennessee Valley Authority. Hoover and Roosevelt did all this and more. It just made the depression deeper and longer. If this Keynesian nonsense continues now, this time will in the future come to be known as the beginning of the Great Post-Modern Depression.
You call for more of the same stupidity that exacerbated the Great Depression.
Stop the spending. Cut the taxes. Eliminate several Departments, most notably all of those established since the Johnson Administration and nullify the regulations they have promulgated. Shatter the extra-constitutional, unelected, unaccountable administrative state that has evolved in this country. The only people who will cry over this are the lawyers.
The real problem is
Submitted by amyshulk on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 7:24am.
The real problem is employment. Gov't. workers make more money and get much better benefits, that the private sector has to pay for.
Reduce the number back to 2006 levels {D's ramped it all up starting in 2007} OR dissolve the PUBLIC sector unions and pay them and change the benefits to what their counterparts make - something HAS to give, and because of the stimulus, most of them haven't even felt the recession yet!!!
Stop trying to make gov't. a "one size fits all" problem solver - it has done nothing but fracture families and communities and create enmity between haves and have nots.
I keep hearing repair our infrastructure as the cure all, but don't we already have those departments/monies allotted? Just like with Wall street - they *always* had the tools, they just didn't do their job!!!
Ronald Reagan
It wasn't just one dam, it was hundreds
Submitted by CobraMan on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 4:27pm.
It wasn't just one dam, hundreds were built all over America in the 30's and 40's (construction which continued into the 70's before Carter gutted public projects like dam building in the late 70's to placate the environmentalists.), both for flood control/irrigation and to generate electricity. There's talk of restarting hydro-electric dam construction here in America as it is the cleanest form of energy production. But I don't expect to see that from ANY democrat administration any time soon.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
It looks like Rachel Madcow
Submitted by djwolf12 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 4:20pm.
is auditioning that picture to be the new cover of a Devo album. Just an observation
And she's probably into the
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 4:49pm.
And she's probably into the 'whip-it' aspect of it too!!!
Hey djwolf12,
Submitted by nuclearnavymom on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 5:05pm.
djwolf12 - Heh.
killa37 - EWWW.
How conveniently they "forget"
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 5:05pm.
The model for government projects is no longer Hoover Dam or the Golden Gate Bridge. They were made in a day when quality mattered and contracts could hire non-union labor.
The model today is the notorious "Big Dig" in Boston -- overbudget; overschedule; and falling apart even before it was finished.
great point!
Submitted by djwolf12 on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 5:15pm.
Failed projects like The Big Dig will soon be explained by revisionist history liberals that it was Republicans that made this project fail. Nevermind the taxes that were hiked on the citizens to pay for it and got nothing out of it, but I am pretty 100% damn sure that the Taxxachussets Labor Union Bosses made a fortune on this project.
The Big Dig -- a tribute to government waste and fraud
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 5:43pm.
- Scheduled to be completed in 1998 at an estimated cost of $6.0 billion (in 2006 adjusted dollars)
- Completed in December 2007 (actually turned over to Massachusetts transit authorities) at a cost of $14.6 billion. By the time it is paid off (with interest) in 2038, its cost will be $22 billion (according to the Boston Globe.)
- Characteristics of the project include:
* cost overruns
* scheduling overruns
* design flaws and substandard materials
* leaks and falling tiles
* criminal arrests
It would be poetic justice if Maddow stood within the tunnel and got struck dead by a falling ceiling tile as happened to one Boston motorist.
Will said it.
Submitted by NC Boy on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 5:08pm.
But the stupid panel and moderator took his comment as a joke!
And a cruel joke on all of us it is
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 9:11pm.
Obama admitted publicly that one thing he learned from the stimulus act was that there is no such thing as "shovel-ready," that catchy adjective for public projects that the Dems swore were just waiting for funding to put Americans back to work.
What he didn't detail was the prinicipal reason for why that is so. The naive White House discovered that EPA and other Federal regulations delay such project starts about 6 months, and some never get authorization to start.
George is right. I can think
Submitted by deerjerkydave on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 6:10pm.
George is right. I can think of a number of examples of environmental extremists blocking the construction of new dams, including the demand to destroy dams which they claim are hurting the environment. One of the reasons California keeps running out of water is they let it all drain into the ocean in the name of saving the planet.
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"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State Governments are numerous and indefinite. -James MadisonWell, yeah
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 6:16pm.
But at least they wouldn't shut off the water to American Farmers to protect the Delta Smelt.
They would?
Never mind.
Saving the Delta Smelt reportedly cost . . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:05am.
. . . California's agricultural industry as many as 40,000 jobs. USDA puts the figure at 5,000, with an additional 16,000 jobs lost to drought conditions. Of course, when you shut off irrigation of farmland, there is no way to compete with drought conditions, so the damage by drought is indirectly related to the Delta Smelt issue.
A couple of studies came out
Submitted by deerjerkydave on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 4:08pm.
A couple of studies came out recently showing that the Smelt were being damaged by "environmental friendly detergents" used in sewage treatment, not by the water flow. So once again the environmentalists' tampering caused more problems than we had to begin with.
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"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State Governments are numerous and indefinite. -James Madison2 examples
Submitted by almostacowboy on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 6:54pm.
The Empire State Building & 9-11 tribute fiasco.
Where's our Hoover Dam moment?
Submitted by pbthinker on Sun, 08/21/2011 - 10:53pm.
If you really want to think about that question just think of how many Hoover Dams were thrown at State Employee Unions and into State Governments coffers so they wouldn't have to deal with their obvious fiscal problems. Since the vast majority of the stimulus package ended up in the states so they wouldn't have to tighten their budgets and lay off teachers and firefighters (that many of them have had to do since then).
In a way, I'm glad, because a Hoover Dam isn't going to solve our problem. Until the private sector starts hiring and building things, we'll be in the same boat.
To add to George Will's
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 9:50am.
To add to George Will's example:
The bridge from New Orleans to the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain probably wouldn't have been built for similar reasons.
The causeway from Miami to the Keys also as well as simply living there and building homes, businesses, etc.
The interstate highway system we currently have would have been completely different if it were to be built at all.
What the... Tapper re: Perry
Submitted by amyshulk on Tue, 08/23/2011 - 7:57am.
What the... Tapper re: Perry vs. Bush - "For one thing, his accent is real" then he says "Just a joke, just kidding" huh???
Ronald Reagan
Thousands of EPA/Court-Blocked mini-Hoover Dams
Submitted by exgenica on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 1:35pm.
We do not need a "Hoover Dam" public works project.
I would submit that right this instant, there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of mini-Hoover Dams throughout the country...
Projects stopped or blocked by the EPA and the activist courts in our country.
Projects that could and would employ people if only job-killing EPA regulations didn't stand in the way by making projects too expensive, schedules extended by EPA permitting processes, or viability made unpredictable from the inevitable environmentalist court cases that will be initiated.
mini-hoover dams,
Submitted by Agnostic on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 1:51pm.
You are correct about the EPA and the courts (though some blame needs to be laid at the feet of ACLU, Greenpeace and Sierra Club) but the Federal Government needs to stay out of small projects that will promote more pork. There are several reasons for this, among them is:
The Conflict of Interest created for federal funding of local projects
The inability for the Federal Government to be reactive to local needs
Federal projects come with too many strings attached to make small projects worth while
Long term costs are passed to the state or region once the Feds are gone and they are often not supported by local budgets (causing the state to have to put out their hands to the feds again which creates another Conflict of Interest)
Pork, Pork and more Pork
National Parks, Interstate Highway Systems and massive regional projects that benefit people in multiple states are the realm of Federal Programs.
Clarification
Submitted by exgenica on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 7:43pm.
I see I should have been more clear.
There are thousands if not tens of thousands of PRIVATE sector and LOCAL government mini-Hoover Dams, all killed, in the process of being killed, or held in abeyance by unreasonable (and many of them unconstitutional) fiats from bloated federal regulatory agencies.
Not even by any Federal Regulatory Agency ....
Submitted by NL207 on Wed, 08/24/2011 - 11:24pm.
The Democrats in Congress gave these "independent" private environmental groups standing to sue in these matters back in the 1970's. Remove their special standing, get rid of half the obstruction.