Bill Maher: 'Mormonism Is Closer To Islam' Than It Is Christianity
The more I watch Bill Maher, the more I think he's either a complete idiot or just says moronic, inflammatory things to get attention.
His most recent absurdity, said on MSNBC's "The Ed Show" Wednesday, was that Mormonism is closer to Islam than it is to Christianity (video follows with transcript and commentary):
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, SUBSTITUTE HOST: Mitt Romney is the frontrunner. Do you think Republicans, the base that is, are ever really, truly going to place their faith in a guy who’s a Mormon?
BILL MAHER: No. That’s what’s going to be so interesting is when Rick Perry in sly and underhanded and no fingerprints methods starts putting out the idea, which is a true idea by the way, that Mormons are not really Christians. You know, once America, which is a very Christian nation, finds that out, I think they’ll have a, certainly in the Evangelical part of the country, those folks, they will not be very fond of Mitt Romney.
Once they find out that Jesus Christ is like third in the hierarchy there. Really was about Joseph Smith. Actually, Mormonism is closer to Islam because in Islam Jesus is also a revered figure. He’s a wonderful prophet. He’s just not the ultimate prophet. You know, he’s like the middle act. He’s certainly not the headliner.
Let's begin with a little logic. Mormonism is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Seem to you that Jesus Christ is "third in the hierarchy?"
Consider, too, what the official Mormon website says on the subject:
About Us
Mormons, for all the other things that set us apart, believe first and foremost that Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer.
We believe that through Him, all mankind may enjoy eternal life with their families in Heavenly Father’s kingdom (John 3:16).
Let's repeat that: "Mormons, for all the other things that set us apart, believe first and foremost that Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer."
Seems pretty clear, doesn't it?
Here's more:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the official name of the religion commonly called the Mormon Church. It was established April 6, 1830 by Joseph Smith, the first president of the Church. We believe he was called by God to be a prophet in the modern era, like Moses and Abraham in biblical times. Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ in a vision after praying to know which church to join. They called on him to restore the church Christ organized when He was on earth, with the proper organization and priesthood authority that had been lost shortly after the Savior’s death.
Seem to you that this religion puts Jesus Christ "third in the hierarchy" and is therefore closer to Islam than it is to Christianity?
Or is this just another absurd line from a highly-revered liberal comedian who rarely if ever knows what he's talking about?
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Comments
Yeah, Donkeyface..........the
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:36am.
Yeah, Donkeyface..........the history of Mormans is filled with conquering a third of the known world, and forcibly ramming their 7th century religion down their captors throats, under punishment of death or slavery..............and Mormans continue to do it today!!!
I know a few Mormons............and I'm deathly afraid of them, because they might blow themselves up while I'm talking to them, and they make me nervous when they march around with their 'Death to Infidels' and 'Mormons will rule the Earth' signs!!!
Oh......maybe he was talking about the polygamy??? Yeah, these Mormans all seem to have a lot of wives too!!! Hell, ol' Donkeyface practices psuedo-polygamy every time he's down at Hugh Hefners place...........that's the only way he gets any action .
Polygamy
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:34am.
Thumbs up, killa37!
As info, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are taught that polygamy or plural marriage is only moral when specifically commanded by God. This was the case early in the church and it was met with much resistance by members such as the rather straight-laced New England stock. I believe this was largely a welfare program. There were many widows, some with children, as well as single women needing help. In part this was because many of the men had been murdered or died of deprivation. But I'm told that it's also commanded when God desires to build up his church.
Polygamy wasn't illegal in the United States or its territories when it was instituted in the church. Once laws were passed prohibiting it and the Supreme Court upheld those laws, President Wilford Woodruff after much supplication and prayer issued a "Manifesto" declaring that the practice was to cease. Just as it was hard for many members to accept plural marriage, it was hard for some to accept discontinuing it. Apostate groups broke off and some who are erroneously identified as Mormons are practicing polygamy today believing that their leader is a greater prophet than the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and/or that they know better because they are special.
The Church for some time has excommunicated any members found to be practicing polygamy.
When the Mormons moved west
Submitted by ricklail on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:39am.
When the Mormons moved west from KC they lost a lot of men. Brigham Young allowed it to re-populate.
Since when is that jerk an authority on any religion?
Submitted by jawebster1 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:49am.
In a way, I wish NewsBusters would ignore him. I'm sure he's the type who likes all publicity even when it stinks almost as much as he does. What a creep!
Haha, asking maher about
Submitted by hoosherdaddy137 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:55am.
Haha, asking maher about religion (except the religion of climate change) is like asking a shuttlecock how to play football.
Well, Jim, as they say in
Submitted by motherbelt on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:50am.
Well, Jim, as they say in Hollywood, the only important thing is that they spell your name right!
And Bill Maher is closer to crackpot than he is to sanity.
Cancel your HBO!
Submitted by Van Halen on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:50am.
Cancel your HBO!
I did!
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:30pm.
I did!
Bill Maher a High Inman.
Submitted by Avitar on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:10am.
Does Bill Maher know any Christians or Mormons and how would he know the difference. He is just fixating on the multiple wives.
Someone should ask Bill which
Submitted by Maestroh on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:10am.
Someone should ask Bill which name sounds more Islamic - Barak Obama or Mitt Romney.
Like. . .
Submitted by rickbren on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:09am.
. . .
Bill Mao is almost as close to communism as Obama himself
Submitted by Dave. on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:40am.
And just add two or three more anatomically correct Obama blow-up dolls to his burgeoning collection, and he will be there fer sure.
If he plays his cards right, George Soros should have him some virgin replacements, along with a case or two of fresh pairs of Obama signature knee pads, just in time for Christmas.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Will the 'virgins' be human
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:44am.
Will the 'virgins' be human beings............or goats, donkeys, or camels??? Well..........cross out the donkeys, since Maher is allready one of them.............
We will let him choose
Submitted by Boudin on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:47am.
Between, goats, donkeys, or camels
Hmmm . . . So, Islam reveres
Submitted by jdhawk on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:52am.
Hmmm . . . So, Islam reveres Jesus? That must be why if you are a non believer in Islam and especially if you are a Christian, you are marked for presecution and even death.
In Saudia Arabia, an Islamic country, you can not be a citizen without first converting to Islam. If you are a christian, you must practice your religion in secret and even that is being threatened.
In Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, Christians are being forcibly converted to Islam.
In Bangladesh, radical Muslims have bombed and burned down churches
A religious decree in Pakistan states that for every Afghan Muslim that dies as a result of the Anglo-American air raids, two Christians will be murdered.
But, yeah, Maher's right, the Mormon religion is closer to Islam than to Christianity . . . .
Maher - STFU, you idiot!
Islam detests homosexuals.
Submitted by Red Jeep on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 10:51am.
"Eminent scholars of Islam, such as Sheikh ul-Islam Imam Malik, and Imam Shafi amongst others, ruled that Islam disallowed homosexuality and ordained capital punishment for a person guilty of it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_topics_and_Islam
In Iran: "Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's seemingly ridiculous claim that "we don't have homosexuals, like in your country" masks the cruel reality that his government does far worse than ignore gays, human rights groups charge.
"There are criminal laws on the books in Iran that allows for people to be killed for being homosexual," said Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission.
Just how many gays may have been killed — some say the figure is more than 400 — is impossible to determine. Routine harassment and systematic torture of gays in Iran is quite common, charge human rights groups."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297982,00.html#ixzz1U4W9jhxc
Mormons do this?
And you might need to talk to
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:29pm.
And you might need to talk to some people who have spent time in Moooooooooooooooooooooooslem countries and know about all of those non-existant homosexuals.
Oh Really??
Submitted by Samaritan01 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:54am.
Mormons resemble Muslims in much the same way that Thomas Jefferson resembles Bill Maher.
You're missing one option, Noel
Submitted by Quasi-socialist on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:59am.
Making startling and shocking comparisons is a well established mode of stand-up, and has been Maher's schtick ever since his standup days. He's just convinced himself that it is somehow valid comment, much the way the show-less Lewis Black does. And I think that as he may have noticed how easy some of his commentary is to poke holes into, it's frustrated him, and now he's frustrated and frantic. So pouring even more derision on all that he does not agree with is how he stabilizes his self-esteem.
I recently saw Bill's take on West's email to Wasserman-Schultz. He says it proved which party was crazy. You know as if there wasn't something questionable about the leader of the DNC, instead of debating the lack of merits of a bit of legislation, takes the floor time to not only suggest that the bill is bad without debate, but a member of the opposite party is betraying his constituents by voting for it--so basically using debate/floor time to campaign against a candidate it is in her interest as party head to defeat. And that if you're the target of this, that to consider it "vile" and "despicable" is beyond the fringe?
But Maher is convinced by the strength of his own convictions that it is demonstrably crazy to be upset over this and to use the word "vile".
"Mormons"
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:02am.
“Mormons" was originally a derogatory term for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as was "Christians." Some claim members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aren't Christians because they believe in a "different" Christ. In many cases that's true. Christianity in all its different groups & beliefs often makes serious mistakes, such as "Christ was only a prophet, perhaps a mistaken or crazy or homosexual prophet, and he didn't really resurrect at least physically." Islam accepts Christ as a prophet but apparently not above the "truths" Mohammad taught. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet on earth, a mortal (from Mary) and a God (from Heavenly Father). But he is also the ONLY Savior of this earth and countless other of his creations. His steadfast faithfulness in serving the Father earned him equality with Heavenly Father. Both were glorified in this endeavor.
Whereas Lucifer (Satan) wanted all the glory himself and to rise above Father. His plan included no freedom to choose - in other words tyranny in which everyone would be "saved" through his dictatorial rule. At least significant parts of Islam also seek to destroy individualism and choice. They and Satan envy and hate. Christ and his true followers love and teach true principals so as to help the saints (members of Christ's church) and others avoid making destructive choices. Only Christ got through mortal life without committing sin. He urges humans to try their best and he will in turn help cover consequences of sin. The members of the Godhead are individuals who work in perfect harmony and thus are "one" in purpose.
The third personage in the Godhead is the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost who for God's purposes doesn't yet have a body of flesh and bone but a spiritual body of more refined substance. I think of him as currently Heavenly Father's second counselor. Incidentally I don't have authority to speak for the church but can give only my interpretation of gospel doctrine.
"Mormonism" has been "disproved" many, many times but thrives because of the gospel as well as because of truths from inspired prophets and personal inspiration from the Holy Ghost. And no, the saints aren't just ignorant hicks but included in the membership are some of the most successful business leaders, scientists, surgeons, academics and others whose work requires a good deal of intelligence and knowledge.
I should love even severe critics but honestly the vicious ones irritate me.
Even if we take your theological treatise at face value
Submitted by Rhymes With Right on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:55am.
So what?
What does that have to do with whether or not Mitt Romney or any other Mormon should be elected to public office?
A little hostility there, Rhymes with Right?
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 7:35am.
Perhaps even, perish the thought, prejudice? I wasn't campaigning for Mitt Romney or any other person of any particular religious persuasion. I was merely expressing objection to Maher's deceitful tirade.
I am not sure I agree with
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:29pm.
I am not sure I agree with 100% of your comment but thank you for a 95% accurate impartial review of this matter.
No, he thinks most people are idiots.
Submitted by dscott on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:13am.
Maher like most of the liberal elites believe the average American to be moronic idiots and that's why they say such idiotic things. Remember the first rule of writing: consider the audience. The message is tailored to the audience.
This is the same reason why Obama blatantly lies to the public, he believes most Americans are simply too stupid to know better. Think about it, they hate the Tea Party because they are grass roots citizenry, the peasants are revolting. We can't have the peasants influencing policy because they're too stupid to know better, that's why we the elite are needed to guide the masses. The Tea Party is an affront to liberals precisely because it is a threat to their reason for being in power.
Speaking of looking for
Submitted by dscott on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 4:10am.
Speaking of looking for attention:
http://www.newsbusters.org/forum/topic-discussion/best-anti-obama-campai...
Nominate the best Anti-Obama ad on the web
Bill Maher is closer to a
Submitted by Barack Must Go on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:41am.
Bill Maher is closer to a donkey ' than he is to a human '.
There's a difference...
Submitted by nw_pa on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:25am.
The main difference between an ass and a donkey is their domestication -- an ass is wild; a donkey is domesticated.
A female ass is a jenny and a male ass is a jack.
Bill is certainly not domesticated so by definition he's clearly a jackass. Now Bwarney Fwank?
Now that we got this cleared up please carry on.
Not only is he a bigot
Submitted by Rhymes With Right on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:54am.
But Maher seems really interested in proposing a religious test for public office.
Religious Test
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 7:58am.
Perhaps I misunderstood your "so what" comment, Rhymes With Right. If so, I apologize. But I think Maher is probably more interested in an irreligious test unless atheism is counted as a religion - as it should be.
Atheism is closer to Satanism
Submitted by rbosque on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 7:08am.
Atheism is closer to Satanism than Christianity.
That doesn't make any sense.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:15pm.
Atheism is what it isn't- the lack of belief in a supernatural being and does not follow any being, or person or thing. Christians follow Christ. Satanism follows Satan. Atheists follow nothing. There are no atheist rituals, no atheist altars, no atheist churches, synagogues, mosques, shrines, etc. So, your comment is incorrect.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Athiests and Satanists have
Submitted by rbosque on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:56pm.
Athiests and Satanists have the same view for human life and the slavation of their souls, NONE. They have the same disregard to God's laws and love for their fellow man. My comment is correct. You are incorrect.
Nope.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 3:07pm.
Atheists do not believe in heaven or hell. They do not believe in a god or any other imaginary being such as Satan. Atheists do not believe in a soul. Atheists do value human life. It's tough to pin such a label on a huge group of people when so many live and think differently. With 30,000 different Christian denominations, sects, cults, etc, it's hard to pin the "Christian" label on most Christians. As for God's laws, if you are starting with the ten commandments as a starting point, the first 4 commandments are on God and himself-
"...you shall have no other gods before me",
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them:for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me",
"You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name",
"... the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God".
Let's face it shall we- how many times have you broken those commandments? Also, they are equal to the other 6 commandments. I find it interesting #6- "Thou shall not kill" doesn't carry a three to four generation penalty as #3.
How many Christians disregard just one of "God's Laws" as you say?
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Go away Retread Syrius troll.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 4:41pm.
Look who is sending me PM's full of insults and then expecting me to keep it private ---- Not very bright are you?
The E S Blofeld troll thinks he can use PM's to insult people.
I think you should share it.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 5:11pm.
I never said not to share.
It's best to keep it off the threads so as not to derail the discussion.
If you wish to share with others, I will send more personal emails to you.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Whatever troll.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 5:27pm.
Izznotta trolliz. Honext. Juzz big conixeedince iz sound like one. Is no pick on trolliz. just heah fer opinyunz is all. Honext. Now you suck truds veteranx and drink alcoholizz. You suck. Juzz nice guyz sharin pinyoons is all. Honext.
They have many websites.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 4:05pm.
They have many conferences. They have many national organizations and many local chapters. They have many newsletters. They write many books. They file many lawsuits.
I could go on.
Please do.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 3:07pm.
How many are tax exempt as religious organizations?
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Atheist Religion
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 5:58pm.
Yours is an understandable opinion, Ernst. I just have a different opinion that makes sense to me.
Crusading atheism worships self, particularly scientific, intellectual, "wised-up" & "modern" self - and people who think like self. No rituals? How about knee-jerk efforts to ban the cross & all things Christian? Altars are places of sacrifice. ACLU helps sacrifice Christian practices. Liberal courts have proven to be pretty good churches for crusading atheists.
I have no particular axe to grind against atheists & agnostics. I think I understand at least in part where they're coming from & they're welcome to their opinions, as misguided & unhelpful as I think they are. Trite as it may sound, many of my friends have been one or the other or a combination of both. But those who crusade against Christianity are dangerous fanatics in my opinion & should be labeled as such. “Onward, Christian Soldiers!”
Robert
Thx for your opinion.
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Sun, 08/07/2011 - 3:22pm.
I was just stating a definition of atheism and some of the things I've learned about it. It's as if everyone thinks I'm an atheist. Oh well.
"Crusading against Christianity"? In a country which has an overwhelming Christian population, I don't follow the "persecution" angle too well. If the Gov't allows for tax exempt status for religious organizations- which a number of people argue is a support of religion- why the fear of not being able to worship how you want to worship? I have yet to see the problem.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
atheism=humanism
Submitted by OuttaMyWay on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:18pm.
and you consider yourself your own God... think of the 10 people siting closest to you... do you consider any of them God like? Really God like? then most likely you are not either :)
We are created in the image
Submitted by rbosque on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:58pm.
We are created in the image of God, but we are not gods. A holy person can aspire to have atributes of Christ but even they will never say they are God.
My preference
Submitted by Franksam on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 7:56am.
If we're going to have a litmus test for the secular office of President, could it please be "Does he love America?" I don't care if a President golfs or goes to church, or how he plans on getting to Heaven. And anyone can claim to be a Christian, even if he 'came to it late in life' and has to work at accepting some of the tenets of the faith.
Since the next President will not be providing salvation, let's talk about unemployment. Obviously, Jesus expects us to help ourselves out of that problem, or it would have been a normal summer for the NFL. Pray all you want, but if that was effective, I would have already won Powerball.
God may have blessed us with abundance and freedom, but that doesn't mean that we won't be allowed to squander them.
Late for an important meeting, a man was desperate for a parking spot.
“Jesus please” he begged, “ If you help me, I’ll go back to church, I’ll make a donation, I'll volunteer, please, I’ll do anything for a space!”
Just then, a car pulled away from the curb right in front of him and the man stuck his hand up in the air and said, “Oh wait, never mind, I got one!”
Litmus Test
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:08pm.
"If we're going to have a litmus test for the secular office of President, could it please be 'Does he love America?'"
Right on, Franksam!
If NB didn't give him. . .
Submitted by rickbren on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:11am.
. . . coverage, he wouldn't have much of an audience. . .
This argument gets old, sadly
Submitted by Reaver on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:51am.
This argument gets old, sadly this blithering idiot has his own show on HBO and is a regular guest on CNN and MSNBC which gives this atheist theology expert the potential to be seen and heard by millions of people. I don’t think NB is doing that much to raise his profile.
Mormons and Muslims do share
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:13am.
Mormons and Muslims do share some common views:
A founding prophet who received visits from an angel, leading to revelation of a book of scripture;
An emphasis upon family, and the family unit as the foundation for religious life and the transmission of values;
Insistence that their religion is a complete way of life, meant to directly influence every facet of existence;
A belief that theirs constitutes the one and only completely true religion on the earth today;
Belief that good deeds are required for salvation just as much as faith;
Assertions that modern Christianity does not conform to the original religion taught by Jesus Christ;
Belief that the text of the Bible, as presently constituted, has been adulterated from its original form;
Rejection of the Christian doctrines of Original Sin and the Trinity;
Strong emphasis upon education, both in the secular and religious arenas;
Belief in fasting during specified periods of time;
Incorporation of a sacred ritual of ablution, though each religion's rite differs in form, frequency and purpose;
Belief that their faith represents the genuine, original religion of Adam, and of all true prophets thereafter;
Prohibition of alcoholic beverages and gambling, as well as homosexuality and bisexuality;
Belief that one's marriage can potentially continue into the next life, if one is faithful to the religion;
Belief in varying degrees of reward and punishment in the hereafter, depending upon one's performance in this life;
Special reverence for, though not worship of, their founding prophet;
Emphasis upon charitable giving, and helping the downtrodden;
An active interest in proselytizing nonbelievers;
Strong emphasis upon chastity, including modesty in dress; and
A clergy drawn from the laity, without necessarily requiring collegiate or seminary training.
Mormons differ significantly in believing in Christ as the son of god, his plan of salvation and in his resurection.
Common Views
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 6:45pm.
Thank you, buddyc, for your marvelous thoughtful listing. I have just one quibble: "Belief that their faith represents the genuine, original religion of Adam..." The original religion was Christ's (aka Jehovah) not Adam's. And a disclaimer: I don't know a lot about Islam.
I would emphasize however that the outlook & methods of Muslims & Mormons are sometimes very different. A state religion is anathema to Mormons. The harshest punishment the church can give is excommunication & even then those excommunicated are not to be shunned but are invited to keep attending the church & be fellowshipped unless they prove far too disruptive. God is Love & is the final judge.
There is probably another similarity in these religions. God is often very much misunderstood & probably so is Allah. It’s very likely that they are the same but interpreted differently.
I'd love to see the look on Maher's face
Submitted by johnsonl on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:29am.
when he arrives at the pearly gates and is directed to the "down" elevator.
The actual words are : But he
Submitted by ricklail on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:37am.
The actual words are : But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Why cant he be both?
Submitted by merly1 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:33am.
1. Complete idiot......check
2. Looks for attention......check
Noel....
Submitted by adamsmith on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:56am.
It's not either..or. He's a complete idiot who says things to get attention.
Is it just me,
Submitted by johnsonl on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 10:56am.
or did you just describe the entire MSDNC lineup of news commentators?
Maher is closer to stupid...
Submitted by P. Aaron on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 8:59am.
...than anything else describable.
Coming from the dolt
Submitted by Iron Tigers Vet on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:04am.
who's atheist/agnostic.
Kind of like BHO claiming to be a .... president.
Bill Maher would not survive in a Muslim nation.
Submitted by Red Jeep on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:17am.
.
False accusations
Submitted by Cactus Kurt on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:24am.
Maher also claimed that John Boehner called the President a "Muslim socialist". It's obvious that syphilis has infected Maher's brain.
And, Bill Mahr
Submitted by JustAl on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:29am.
. . . is closer to a horse's ass than it's tail.
Bill Maher has not done his homework (if he intended to)
Submitted by cameronielsen on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 10:28am.
The name of the church is 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.'
If you look on a church web site, building, or a missionary's plaque, Jesus' name is the largest part of the title.
We pray in Jesus name, and read about Jesus every day in the Bible and Book of Mormon.
We sing worshipful hymns about Jesus, many of which are borrowed from other Christian faiths.
All of our Sunday School lessons are focused around Jesus.
We believe Joseph Smith was a prophet like Moses in the Old Testament or Peter in the New Testament. This does not mean we believe him equal to the Savior more than any Christian believes that Moses or Peter is equal to the Son of God.
I'm sure most here already knew this on some level, just thought I'd share.
Actually Maher is right ..
Submitted by mustangsally on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 10:41am.
Comparing Mormonism to Christianity and Islam is like comparing a banana to an apple and a grapefruit. Mormons are POLYTHEISTS and in their theology JC is a secondary, inferior god.
Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s founder, taught the doctrine of a "plurality of gods"—polytheism—as the bedrock belief of his church.
Mormons believe, the Heavenly Father came to earth and had physical, sexual intercourse with the Virgin Mary. Rejecting both the testimony of Scripture (Luke 1:34-35) and the constant teaching of the Christian Church, Mormons believe Christ was conceived by the Father, and not by the Holy Spirit. (Journal of Discourses 2:268.)
Moreover, Mormons teach that Christ is a secondary, inferior god. He does not exist from all eternity. (Nor, for that matter, does his Father.) He was first made by a union of his heavenly parents. After having been reared and taught in the heavens, he achieved a certain divine stature. Through carnal relations with her Heavenly Father, the Virgin became pregnant with this lesser god.
A broken clock still reads correctly twice a day and in this case Maher is right that Mormonism and Christianity are theologically inimicable. Whether that is justification for Christians to reject a Mormon presidential candidate is a different matter altogether ..
Mormons
Submitted by JPTSO3 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:02am.
They also believe that God was once a man. Further they believe, or at least their theology asserts, that there are levels of the afterlife and those who believe in the Joe Smith story are on the express train to heaven. Those who reject the Joe Smith story are damned to hell but if you don't specifically reject Joe's story you'll still get in to heaven just not on the "level" equal to Joe's flock. Thus, Hitler if he didn't specifically reject Mormonism is residing in heaven not hell. However, I am on the express train to hell because I reject Joe's story.
Come on do your research.
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:26pm.
Come on do your research. That is absolute crap. You don't know what you are talking about.
Spectacles
Submitted by JPTSO3 on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 10:20pm.
Do you put on your magical glasses when you do your "research"?
Hitler Baptism by Proxy
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:57pm.
Mormons practice baptism for the dead (based upon an ambiguous verse in the Bible) and in fact have, IN THE PAST --- READ IT AGAIN -- IN THE PAST -- had a baptism by proxy for Hitler. When they were caught, they "corrected" the "mistake".
You 100% wrong in everything
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:23pm.
You 100% wrong in everything you posted.
Christ is the God of the old testament. They do not believe "heavenly father had sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary". They do believe members can progress to the level of a god of another existence but that doesn't mean that Christ is not the only son of heavenly father and the "god" of our existence.
Sorry, Wikipedia has some good info on this.
That and a buck-fifty will get you a soft drink
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:33pm.
You need to really look hard at what Brigham Young has said about this. Read the Journal of Discourse; or better yet...
"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
(JoD 1:50-51, also "Answers", vol. 5, p. 121).
Brigham Young
That is just one of the areas
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:20pm.
That is just one of the areas you go wrong in. First Youngs writings may or may not have been adopted Mormon beliefs. Next, the mormons don't believe the Holly Ghost is the father.
Thats what your GA's tell you
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:32pm.
Thats what the GA's tell you and if you push them on the subject my guess is it will be your fault for questioning.
Again, Brigham Young was a prophet just as Joe Smith was, so what he said came directly from "elohim". Also, Joseph Fielding Smith concurred with Brigham's stance on the "Virgin" Birth (Look it up).
Brigham was "god's" Mouthpiece
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:28pm.
Remember, Ole Briggy was a prophet in the likes of Joe Smith, just like all presidents since the church started. I wish not to make this a personal issue, but religion is so personal. I will stand to shed light where I can with no malice towards those to whom I am debating with.
As was Jesus
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:36pm.
"Remember, Ole Briggy was a prophet in the likes of Joe Smith"
As was Jesus, and Abraham, and Mohammad, etc. Prophecies, and the Prophets who make them, are a basic part of most religions, including the "heathen" religions as practiced by the Mayans and the Aztecs.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Mormon's Jesus
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:05am.
Actually in Mormon theology, Satan was a brother to Jesus and actually (Satan) offered to be our redeemer. So, in fact, Maher is right. The Jesus that Mormon's worship is a totally different Jesus in the Bible. If you disagree, read the book of Moses Chapter 4, verse 1 (before you try and tell me I'm wrong) and you will see for yourself.
Mormonism IS a CULT.
Christianity IS a cult
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:42pm.
Christianity is a "cult" too, remember? I mean, really, Christians have replaced God with Jesus as the source of salvation, have they not?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
T-Minus 10 Minutes...
Submitted by PaleHorse on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:10am.
...before the "tolerant" Christian Newsbusters appear en masse to excoriate Mormonism. As a long time reader, these are always my favorite threads. Infighting is cute. It reminds me of a family reunion.
Cute Indeed
Submitted by tekel on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:00pm.
Thanks for a chuckle, Pale Horse.
@T-minus 10
Submitted by mustangsally on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:23am.
There is nothing "intolerant" about examining the truth claims of a particular theological tradition as long as one does so with the same charity and rigor as one expects others to examine one’s own. Calling Mormonism "Christianity" is just stupid because the truth claims of each are simply contradictory ..
And the correct answer is...
Submitted by StarAZ on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:08pm.
just says moronic, inflammatory things to get attention
To all Mormons..
Submitted by liberalsarefunny on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:11pm.
Please do not bother responding to this little twerp...
In defense of Mormonism...
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:23pm.
...really?
I'm going to sit back and watch Christians, true Christians, defend Mormonism as a religion equal to their own. If Christians are willing to defend Mormonism from the likes of Maher, why not other religions? I don't think you can have it both ways.
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
E.S. Blofeld = Oddjob = Syrius = Troll.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:32pm.
Don't feed this troll even if it is to say "Huh? Put that in the form of an English sentence."
Huh?
Submitted by E.S.Blofeld on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:37pm.
Oh, here we go again. What is your problem, dude? I have an opinion. You have an opinion. Quit trying to label me something I'm not. If you have a point, discuss it. Beyond that...go...away.
Everyone who doesn't follow in the defense of Mormonism are now "trolls"?
Ernst
"Isn't it pretty to think that way?"-EH
Iztrollmadz?
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 9:45pm.
Yu iz stop nah. Iz tell mumzietroll when getz home an changez full diapers. IZ GOT RIGHT TO TROLL MONKIZMAN!
In defense of Christianity
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:44pm.
Define "true" Christianity. Is it Catholicism, Protestantism, Evangelicalism, or what?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
By the way
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:58pm.
"If Christians are willing to defend Mormonism from the likes of Maher, why not other religions?"
By the way, what "other" religion do the Christians NOT defend from people like Maher? Do they NOT defend Paganism, Voodooism, Islam, Shintoism, Buddhism, or what? Face it, Christians are very supportive, very defensive, of other people's beliefs and religious practices. Name a single predominantly Christian country in existence today that isn't supportive of other religious beliefs, that doesn't defend those other religions from persecution. I don't think you can. It's the Atheists who seem to have a problem with religious beliefs, not the Christians.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
mmmm, not so much defending
Submitted by dscott on Fri, 08/05/2011 - 12:21am.
mmmm, not so much defending their "belief system" but the "right to believe" without being attacked. If Hindus were being attacked this way, we would have the same response. I may totally disagree with the belief system of Mormans, Hindus, Muslems, etc. however, they do have a right to their belief system as much as I do, it's called respect. Maher is so arrogant as to believe his ignornant ranting hateful disrespect is acceptable behavior, NO IT IS NOT. Maher is an anti-religious bigot, he is no different than the fools from the Aryan Nation or KKK or Feminists spouting their hate based nonsense.
There is a difference between expressing disagreement and expressing hatred (invective) and Maher is a hate monger.
They Are Both Disgusted and Ignorant of the Subject Matter
Submitted by V the K on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:39pm.
Bill Maher understands as much about Christianity as Andrew Sullivan understands about Gynecology.
It's closer to Judaism
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:41pm.
Mormonism is closer to Judaism than Islam. Just look how the Mormons were treated: forced out of area after area, again and again, year after year, until they settled in a desert, an area no one else wanted to live, one which they turned into a veritable Garden of Eden. Just like how the Jews were, and still are, treated. Mormons are the underdogs, just like the original American "settlers." Who WOULDN'T, in America, be supportive of the underdogs?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
And Another Thing
Submitted by V the K on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:43pm.
It is always interesting to hear non-Mormons spew forth on what Mormons believe, it is obvious they have little idea what they are talking about. It's a bit like listening to Obama or Paul Krugman try and explain Market Capitalism.
And Another Thing
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:57pm.
Tell that to the Mountain Meadows Massacre Vitctims.
Tell that to the Paiutes
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:10pm.
Tell that to the Paiutes, the Native American tribe, who "assisted" in that massacre. That was all a part of the Utah Wars, a dark chapter of American history. Mormons share in the blame, but they are not the only ones who do.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Nice Try
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:05pm.
Read what John D. Lee and many historians have written upon the subject. Brigham Young wanted them massacred, especially because the innocent massacred came from Missouri. You know full well that the Mormon's incited the Indians and if you choose to look the other way then shame on you. You excuse cold-blooded murder with a mis-directed excuse.
Yet they were still involved.
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:37pm.
Yet those Native Americans were still involved, something that not even John D. Lee denies. Place the blame solely on the Mormons, if you insist, but don't ignore history.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
There again
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:47pm.
Have you read his book? Have you read the transcripts of the trial? Again you mis-direct. Stay focused. The fact is that innocent people were murdered, by proxy, by Brigham Young. You can't rehabilitate it, no matter if Indians were involved (they were incited). My original post was to show you that I do know what I am talking about when it comes to Mormons.
Have you read history?
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:24pm.
Have you actually read history? How can it be "misdirection" to point out that, no, the Mormons were NOT alone in the massacre? That they actually had help from the Native Americans, for they shared a common goal, the control of territory? You may try to hide the fact that, yes, the Native Americans had a vested interest in helping the Mormons, but that isn't to work. People, like myself, remember our history classes.
As far as claiming you know what you're talking about. I, too, can claim to be an expert. But, guess what? That doesn't make it so. If you're such an expert, then where's YOUR book, YOUR dissertation, YOUR peer reviewed "expert analysis? You haven't provided any!
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Only a sophist would make that reply n/t
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:43pm.
Hey Cobra ... well....gosh...you're a poor apologist. Try exegesis instead of eisegesis.
Try comprehension as opposed to antonyms
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:52pm.
Try reading, and comprehending, history instead of attempting to impress us with your ability to use eloquent antonyms in your arguments. Linguistic elitism doesn't impress me at all.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
ahhhh, the last word
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 5:25pm.
Trust me, Cobra, the last thing I am trying to do is impress you. You aren't that important :)
Is this really a relevant
Submitted by buddyc on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:16pm.
Is this really a relevant issue. Jews after leaving Eygpt and going into the "promised land" killed everyone, man, woman and child who were not jews. Catholics have killed many groups that would not convert hundreds of years ago. Mormons were killed by the thousands and driven from Ohio, Missouri and then Illinois. Mormons do and did responsbility for the Mountain Meadow killings.
Is there any religion or even political belief (nazi, socialists, communists) who have not killed large numbers of innocents.
What does all of this have to do with TODAY?
Proving My Point
Submitted by V the K on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:15pm.
This is very much like Obama ranting about Corporate Jet Owners.
Here's Why the other Sects Hate Us
Submitted by V the K on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 12:45pm.
The real reason, particularly the Baptists, despise Mormons is because we have no paid clergy, it is entirely a volunteer lay ministry. People who make their living as clergymen are understandably offended and threatened by this concept.
no see previous comment
Submitted by OuttaMyWay on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:26pm.
here is why they are offended:
Mormon's Jesus
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 11:05am.
Actually in Mormon theology, Satan was a brother to Jesus and actually (Satan) offered to be our redeemer. So, in fact, Maher is right. The Jesus that Mormon's worship is a totally different Jesus in the Bible. If you disagree, read the book of Moses Chapter 4, verse 1 (before you try and tell me I'm wrong) and you will see for yourself.
Mormonism IS a CULT.
Yeti
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/08/04/bill-maher-mormoni...
Opps, wrong post
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:42pm.
Opps, posted to the wrong person, my apologies.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
We are all brothers to Satan
Submitted by V the K on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:41pm.
We are all the children of our Heavenly Father, which means all of us are brothers to Satan.
Brothers of Satan?
Submitted by Yeti on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:09pm.
Only if you believe in the pre-existence of souls, which is unBiblical. Only a Mormon can confuse Humans with Fallen Angels (Two Seperate Entities my friend, can't justify it any way you try!)
As for the link you posted, my statement is about Mormon theology not Mitt Romney. I'm sure Mr. Romney is a nice and moral fellow and would consider voting for him, time will tell.
Also, there is no hate, just facts. Mormons love to play the victim when their heretical theology is brought to the light of day.
EXCUSE me V the K! Only those
Submitted by ForeverOnTheRight on Fri, 08/05/2011 - 10:43am.
EXCUSE me V the K! Only those who except Jesus as their Lord and savior have the right to be the children of God. John 1:12 Also Satan was an angel, NOT a son of God! If you can find ANY verse and solid Biblical evidence that he was a son of God, then come out with it. I am in no wise a brother to Satan!
Typical historical and Biblical illiteracy
Submitted by russedav on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 1:48pm.
As much as I cring/hate to agree with monstrous Maher on anything, on this one he's right, as those few, very few, who know history and their Bibles know. For those who know what the Mormon spin actually means, unlike ignorant Noel and commenters who agree, their alleged "Jesus Christ" is a far cry from the God of the Bible. This is why I'm not a "conservative" (whatever that means) for they're usually as bad as the "liberals" (whatever that means) in their ignorance of the true Christian faith as they're so stupid as to imagine that Mormons and Cathoics and Jews have anything to do with the genuine Christian faith of our Founders who rejected all three, unlike today's pitiful illiterate ignoramuses who wouldn't know the Bible if it bit 'em. Our Founders who ordered the printing of Bibles as one of their first official acts warned us this would be fatal, and the delusional nonsense spouted about Mormons above, pretending theiy're anything but a fraud when it comes to the genuine Christian faith, are sad proof of that fatal fact that will soon destroy us if God doesn't save us. See www.aomin.org and www.utlm.org for truth about the Mormon fraud.
Morman fraud?
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:42pm.
I would hardly classify any religious belief as "fraud." What makes your understanding of religion more relevant, more accurate, than anyone else? You're no more qualified to classify ANY religion as "fraud" as I, or anyone else is. Do you have some type of divine knowledge that others aren't privy too? Are you some type of prophet? I don't think there's a Halo riding over your head, buddy.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
"I'm not a theologian, but I play one on TV"
Submitted by Galvanic on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 2:00pm.
Perhaps he'll demonstrate the similarities by putting up an image Joseph Smith alongside one of Mohammed.
It's interesting
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:15pm.
It seems that every time a particular religion, or society, or race, is mentioned, someone, somewhere, at some time, feels the need to use the past as a weapon, a club, in which to denigrate or demean that particular religion, society, or race, as if that person doesn't share a history of atrocities with the others. What these people never seem to understand, or admit of they do understand, is that NO religion, society, or race is free from atrocities committed some time in their past.
From the Ancient Babylonians, to the modern America, from ancient Shintoism to modern Christianity, from the White European to the most "primitive" societies on earth, every race, every society, and every religion have, at some time or another, committed atrocities such as "massacres" and "enslavement." Until the most recent history, say the last 200 years or so, atrocities like these were common, so common, in fact, that people expected them. It was an excepted part of human existence.
Yet, despite this shared history, this shared guilt of past atrocities that EVERYONE is a part of, some people still resort to using this as some type of argument why one group, religion, or society is better, or worse, than another. I just never understand WHY they do this? Most people know about the atrocities that mankind has inflicted upon itself in the past, so we're not learning anything we didn't already know. If we're going to condemn one race, society, or religion for the atrocities they committed in the past, then we have to condemn the entire human race, for we, as a species, have been doing this to ourselves for all of human history. It's only in the "modern era" that this type of behavior is universally prohibited, Mormon's included.
Yes, we need to learn from our past, to know and understand it so these atrocities won't continue, but, please, don't use it as a means of condemnation for a single group. For that, in itself, is an atrocity.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
Did he really admit that?
Submitted by GW on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 3:35pm.
"You know, once America, which is a very Christian nation, finds that out,"
You know, his Messiah would beg to differ...
Always go with your gut
Submitted by michael lofrano on Thu, 08/04/2011 - 5:49pm.
Always go with your gut feeling. Bila Maher IS an idiot.
Thank you, Noel Sheppard
Submitted by tekel on Fri, 08/05/2011 - 1:03am.
NewsBusters is doing a great job exposing hate speech. I appreciate this and other articles & the comments thereto. It's too bad that so many of the comments here seem to reinforce the adage "never talk about politics or religion." Not that it's a good adage. Particularly at this time politics should be discussed & religion is a vital eternal concern. But there are differences between honest discussion or debate & tirades or verbal attacks. It's sad that so many of the responses to your worthwhile article (as well as current global happenings) indicate that "holy wars" aren't just a thing of the past.
I probably won't reply to any more of the responses. The battle lines are clearly drawn & I myself am tempted to lapse into personal attack mode, which at best is impolite & often is counterproductive. You gave some compelling information contradicting Maher rather than just attacking him. But that sort of expose doesn't cut any ice with many who are opposed to the proposition that Mormons don't have horns. Some can quote contradicting "facts" which are often half-truths at best. They can quote history without any indication that their versions of history might not be gospel despite the fact that historians pursue a very fallible art-science. Bits of the Bible or any other doctrine can be interpreted incorrectly, even opposite to the real meaning. Honest criticism often suffers when one has an axe to grind.
As a sincere but far from perfect latter-day saint, I obviously have my own axe to grind. I try to put a fine point on it but not a cutting one. However (& this shows a little slippage) anti-Mormon radical bigot zealots remind me of Lizzie Borden. “Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 whacks. When she saw what she had done she gave her father 41.”
I axe forgiveness for my shortcomings & hope to reciprocate as much as my frailties allow.
On a curious bright note it seems to me that Catholics & Mormons get along better with each other than many other church members do with either. One commonality is that each professes divine authority & although they disagree on which is the correct authority, they tend to know at least what the other is talking about. I treasure some heart-warming examples of this mutual appreciation & the knowledge that other religions contain eternal truths & are meant to uplift.