Lowry Calls Obama Classless, Clift Asks 'What Would You Expect From Kenyan Socialist With No Birth Certificate?'
For the second week in a row, Newsweek's Eleanor Clift and National Review's Rich Lowry had quite a battle on PBS's "McLaughlin Group."
This time the fireworks started when Lowry called President Obama classless for the way he treated Congressman Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) at Wednesday's speech on deficit reduction which led Clift to ask, "What else would you expect from a socialist born in Kenya who’s hiding his birth certificate?" (video follows with transcript and commentary):
ELEANOR CLIFT, NEWSWEEK: It is perfectly fair politics to point out that Paul Ryan’s plan gets its cuts from taking money away from two-thirds of the public that is poorer, and hands it over in tax cuts to the top class…
RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW: It is revenue neutral.
CLIFT: …and to call that classless…
LOWRY: It’s a revenue neutral tax reform…
CLIFT: Who gets…
LOWRY: …it does not cut taxes. That is wrong.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, HOST: Don't you think you’re a little pessimistic?
CLIFT: Excuse me! The savings he gets he transfers to the upper class, and you call the President's speech classless? What do you mean by that from a party that's in favor of birther talk.
MCLAUGHLIN: Let him answer, let him answer.
LOWRY: He invited Paul Ryan to sit in there in front of him and tell him he hates autistic kids fundamentally. That is classless, Eleanor. There's no other word for that.
CLIFT: What else would you expect from a socialist born in Kenya who’s hiding his birth certificate?
LOWRY: Maybe a little class. Maybe a little class. He’s President of the United States.
MCLAUGHLIN: Wait a minute, there’s too many people talking here. Let's hear from Buchanan. Who’s the demagogue?
PAT BUCHANAN: In the President's speech there were real aspects of demagoguery. He’s talking about kids with autism and the rich getting their tax cuts.
MCLAUGHLIN: You don’t think the American people could see through that and they saw that it was demagoguery.
BUCHANAN: Demagoguery works, John.
Indeed it does, and as Buchanan said during this same segment, such demagoguery might end up getting Obama reelected.
Makes you proud to be an American, doesn't it?
- Noel Sheppard's blog
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Comments
Eleanor?
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:11pm.
Eleanor, I know you were a Hillary supporter, but you're still clinging to the Hillary Camp's suggestion Obama was born in Kenya?
I guess you missed it, Cool...
Submitted by Jer on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:13pm.
but that one little tent was folded up and packed away long ago and has been replaced by a massive right-wing army of birthers bivouacked at Camp Paranoia.
Jer
More Smears from the Inveterate Liar...
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:36pm.
Show me Obama's long-form birth cert, Jer.
Oh yeah, that's right. You can't.
So why can't you? Because Obama has spent millions in multiple court cases to forbid the public from seeing it. So is there something there that he's hiding? According to you, Obama's hiding nothing. After all, everyone spends millions of dollars in court cases to prevent people from seeing something that doesn't impact them, right?
Once again, we can see that liberals implicitly trust the power of man and get in line to do whatever they're told, even when the command is to disregard the state of undress of the emperor. They won't trust God, but they'll line up to lie their heads off all day long like good little apparatchiks.
Obama wants you, comrade.
Visions and Principles blog
I luz Uncle Jer. I do. I really do. Luz him to death.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:55pm.
27 months down. 21 to go. How is that birther issue working out for you Retard? Obama 'bought ready to go any day now? Maybe next month? Maybe six months from now?
When you walk into a government office in Hawaii and ask for a copy of your birth certificate, this is what they give you.
Screw you Retard. I wanna have sex with Uncle Jer right here right now on the floor in front of everybody.
IT.
IS.
A.
DEAD.
ISSUE.
DROP.
IT.
YOU.
FRIGGIN'
BIRTHER.
STOP.
POLLUTING.
UP.
THIS.
GOOD.
SITE.
Vet...does "inveterate" mean that I'm
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:52am.
a vet like you? You once said my 6-year Reserve service almost made me one. Sure wish we former Reservists could be considered real ones.
Jer
let's see what happens in Arizona
Submitted by Billnonymous on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:31pm.
If/when Brewer signs the bill, Obama will not be able to get on the Arizona ballot without providing something more than a COLB. Let's face it, Obama himself got his "official" birth hospital wrong. How many people do you know F that up?
I know one person who F'd it up...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:39pm.
That would be you. Source your claim, please. I don't think you'll find anything about Obama himself getting his official birth hospital wrong. There was an erroneous reference in a news article. It wasn't a quote by Obama though.
Jer
Of no consequence
Submitted by Model850 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:58pm.
Even if Brewer signs it into law it will be challenged and tied up in the courts for the next decade.
I like what AZ did with the bill but it's meaningless for 2012.
Obama didn't spend millions on court cases
Submitted by Billnonymous on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:23pm.
WE, the taxpayers, are the lucky ones who get to pick up Obama's legal bills.
Jer, The more precient
Submitted by dscott on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:37am.
Jer, The more precient questions to ask are:
1. Why did Barack Obama seal his grades and other university records from public inspection that normally would be shown via the MSM to the public? Is he ashamed that he is not smarter than George W Bush as his supporters claim? Is he demonstrably dumb as a box of rocks? As were Al Gore and John Kerry when their grades were inspected and compared to W's?
2. Why has the Illinois Bar sealed Barack Obama's circumstances of resigning from the Bar? What were the charges against him that he surrendered his license to practice law instead of facing a hearing on the charges?
3. Why are Barack Obama's student loan documents sealed from public inspection? What is he ashamed of or rather what specifically is it he is hiding?
4. Who wrote Dreams of My Father? So far Barack Obama has made the claim he is the sole writer, however Bill Ayers has said he wrote the book. When will Barack Obama admit his failure of scholarship and confess he plagarized his own so called Autobiography when in fact it is a BIOGRAPHY?
All answers, we, the pubic are entitled to know of the guy who says, trust me. A person who will not be transparent is NOT WORTHY OF THE PRESIDENCY. Barack Obama is unfit for leadership as long as he engages in these paranoic actions.
Whether or not there is an issue with his birth certificate is now a miniscule matter since he has been in office since January 2009. Like you said they should just get over it. Having said that, IF it was ever discovered that there was a legal implication to a problem with his birth certificate, Barack Obama would find himself in federal prison for the rest of his life as every document he signed would each be a count of FRAUD committed against the US government and he has literally signed thousands of documents. Let's just say Jer that Barack Obama had better be whom he claims to be otherwise the consequences will be quite dramatic upon him. His papers can not stay sealed forever and given the shifting sands of power, all it takes is one election cycle to give the appropriate people the subpeona power to FORCE open those records. Heaven help him if there is ANY impropriety whatsoever.
THANK YOU
Submitted by ladeflippinda on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:33am.
Yours is the first post to address the core issues of the Obama cover-up.
Thank you.
dscott
Submitted by adamsmith on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:05am.
Post of the Year....
dscott...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:09pm.
1. Why did Barack Obama seal his grades and other university records from public inspection that normally would be shown via the MSM to the public? Is he ashamed that he is not smarter than George W Bush as his supporters claim? Is he demonstrably dumb as a box of rocks? As were Al Gore and John Kerry when their grades were inspected and compared to W's?
I'm going to preface my responses with the caveat that the information I provide--other than expressions of opinion--is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge. I may be mistaken in some of the details--a number of statements are based on my recollections of what I have heard or read [in some cases recently, in others, months or years ago] so I'll try to perform some additional fact-checking as soon as practicable, especially on points in dispute. I fully expect any serious error on my part will be met, with reasonable alacrity, by an avalanche of corrective data posted by the indefatigable google master, the Vet.
As far as I know, transcripts are not normally accessible by the general public, nor am I aware of the historical precedent with respect to their release by presidential candidates. My understanding is that Bush did not release his school records until after there was an unauthorized disclosure at which point he proceeded to green light a more comprehensive release sometime during his first term. Those documents revealed an unremarkable academic record, but one which certainly compared favorably with Kerry. Gore's decidedly unimpressive transcripts suggested a very underachieving student. However, while Bush's SAT score was well above average, Gore's was considerably higher--firmly in the upper 90's percentile--and thus your description of Gore as "dumb as a box of rocks" is patently absurd.
2. Why has the Illinois Bar sealed Barack Obama's circumstances of resigning from the Bar? What were the charges against him that he surrendered his license to practice law instead of facing a hearing on the charges?
What makes you think he was facing charges by the Illinois Bar Association? Frankly, that is the first time I've heard the allegation made. Obama only actively practiced law for about three years, and his resignation may very well have been entirely voluntary and for any number of reasons, none of which would necessarily imply the pendency of disciplinary proceedings.
3. Why are Barack Obama's student loan documents sealed from public inspection? What is he ashamed of or rather what specifically is it he is hiding?
Why shouldn't they be confidential? The only possible relevance would be as part of a general fishing expedition conducted by political dirt-diggers and detractors searching for any shred of evidence suggesting his name, birthplace, residence, or other biographical data contained therein was inconsistent with his public statements or other public records.
4. Who wrote Dreams of My Father? So far Barack Obama has made the claim he is the sole writer, however Bill Ayers has said he wrote the book. When will Barack Obama admit his failure of scholarship and confess he plagarized his own so called Autobiography when in fact it is a BIOGRAPHY?
I have no idea who wrote it. Supposedly there are passages which appear to be similar to the style of Ayers whose claims of authorship smack largely of tongue-in-cheek put ons. Ayers may indeed have ghosted it, but I think it far too premature to be demanding confessions from Obama.
All answers, we, the pubic are entitled to know of the guy who says, trust me. A person who will not be transparent is NOT WORTHY OF THE PRESIDENCY. Barack Obama is unfit for leadership as long as he engages in these paranoic actions.
Your closing comment merely states a conclusion based on supposition and conjecture rather than established fact.
Whether or not there is an issue with his birth certificate is now a miniscule matter since he has been in office since January 2009. Like you said they should just get over it. Having said that, IF it was ever discovered that there was a legal implication to a problem with his birth certificate, Barack Obama would find himself in federal prison for the rest of his life as every document he signed would each be a count of FRAUD committed against the US government and he has literally signed thousands of documents. Let's just say Jer that Barack Obama had better be whom he claims to be otherwise the consequences will be quite dramatic upon him. His papers can not stay sealed forever and given the shifting sands of power, all it takes is one election cycle to give the appropriate people the subpeona power to FORCE open those records. Heaven help him if there is ANY impropriety whatsoever.
Despite my less than favorable view of the birther movement, I don't recall ever saying "they should just get over it." But, since you have now stated the sentiment and endorsed it, I think it's safe to say I agree with you. As far as your near portrayal of one presidential foot already being inside the front door of Leavenworth, that too seems a bit presumptuous. Even if his eligibility were ultimately tainted by circumstances over which he had no control, about which he had no knowledge, and in which he had no participation, he would unlikely suffer any consequences whatsoever. Contrariwise, (presupposing knowledge, participation, etc.) he would most certainly be impeached and thrown out of office--and might even serve time--but whether or not all of his actions and official acts performed as the putative Chief Executive would be immediately declared a nullity is debatable. But, needless to say, it would result in a Constitutional crisis of monumental proportions.
Jer
edited to correct the dreaded you're/your screw-up
Jer, you do a magnificent job
Submitted by dscott on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:10pm.
Jer, you do a magnificent job of explaining away, except one thing... These questions are going to be asked over an over again until Barack Obama releases the information. He is not entitled to a pass the second time around. At this point Barack Obama is going to be transparent like he claimed he would be and he will be held to the same standards as George W Bush was. Any attempt on his part to withhold this information during the campaign is going to be portrayed as deceit, at this point Obama has enough credibility problems without adding to them.
No Jer, no one but Barack Obama can answer these questions and we, the public are entitled to answers from the man who says trust me. Trust is the coin of the realm and to this point Obama is deficit spending in a major way, his debt is due and now he has to pay up.
btw - Bill Ayers SAID he wrote the book: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/ayers_affirms_he_wrote_dream...
dscott...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:51pm.
Just a couple of quick points:
--While my general assessment of the birth certificate issue is that it is ultimately a losing one for Republicans--and that it is driven less by lofty notions of Constitutional sanctity and more by baseless suspicion, conspiracy fantasies, and naked partisanship--as I noted earlier toward the bottom of this thread: I believe the question SHOULD be put directly to Obama concerning the long-form b/c and his justification for withholding it. To which I hope he would provide a direct and satisfactory response.
--I had already seen that particular video of Ayers as well as that of the other incident where he "acknowleged" authorship, so I am obviously not denying that he SAID it. My point was that his statements carried a distinct undertone of sarcasm Consequently, I think the jury is still out on that issue.
Jer
It isn't going to go away ...
Submitted by NL207 on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:29am.
And the B.C. is in off itself not the real issue.
Obama's refusal to present his means he has failed to demonstrate in the face of challenge his Constitutional eligibility to occupy the Presidency. Were it obvious he was a natural born citizen, he would not even be asked this question. However, his father was not at Obama's birth nor ever later a US citizen. His mother was, according to US citizenship laws of 1961, a minor at the time of his birth. Therefore his place of birth is his only claim to any kind of US citizenship, native or natural born.
The real issue is whether Obama is Constitutionally qualified to be the President. He is, in fact, NOT.
Minor v. Happersett, 1874
"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."
Parents as in plural : both parents. Obama's British Colonial / Kenyan father makes him at best a native born citizen and that only if his mother gave birth on US soil. Obama's paternity excludes him as President. Producing a BC that establishes Barack Obama, Sr. as his father legally cements that exclusion, does it not?
This is sad.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:15am.
Obama's refusal to present his means he has failed to demonstrate....
He met the requirements of primaries in 50 states. He satisfied more than 50% of the voters. He satisfied the electoral college. He satisfied the Senate that certified the election results.
Say, maybe someone should have said something somewhere along that point instead of chasing the horse down the road whilst the missus closes the barn door.
Just a thought.
Correct, Vet. It is sad that
Submitted by dscott on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:51am.
Correct, Vet. It is sad that the individual States utterly failed to take seriously their Constitutional duties to verify that ANY candidate met the criteria for being a candidate of the office in question. The fact that virtually every State didn't have laws on the books speaks to the niggling letter of the Law that Obama has used to side step the issue of verification. Certification before this was the political party leader saying the candidate met the criteria with zero proof presented. Hence since 2008 several States have passed laws to REQUIRE the certification be thorough to close that loop hole. Prior to this everyone observed the honor system and you now have a first hand demonstration of why a law gets passed when people game the system. Obama in his brazeness gamed the system because he has no honor.
I don't know if Obama was born here or not. I reserve judgment based on the facts. The governor and secretary of vital stats in Hawaii saying TRUST US doesn't cut it. We have been lied to too many times by politicians and bureaucrats. I want proof one way or the other. Once Obama forks over the Long Form I will know one way or the other. As I personally think this is more about Obama being of illegitimate birth and he is ashamed of it. I give that a 90% probability versus 10% to foreign birth. Just as he is ashamed of his grades and thus sealed them. People who have something to hide do so for real reasons, paranoia has a basis in many cases.
BTW- the idea Obama has satisfied 50%, etc... is a lame rationalization when said people were tricked by a poseur at the time of the vote. That's like saying you aren't entitled to your money back if the product you buy based on the sales pitch doesn't perform as advertised. While I voted against the man, I suspect those who voted for him are the ones who feel they have been misled on many items. How's that hope and change working for them? The birth certificate issue is side show but an important one that speaks to the lack of character of the man.
dscott...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:34am.
Do you honestly believe a man of Obama's exceedingly atypical background--born to a young, white teenage mother who was several months pregnant when she married a black man from Kenya who then abandoned the family and was never seen by his son until he was ten years old after the child had returned from living in Indonesia with his Muslim step-father, etc.etc...WOULD BE HUMILIATED BY A REVELATION HE WAS BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK! It flies directly in the face of common sense..
You have become blinded by your antipathy toward a President you despise, a man you consider a poseur, a liar, and devoid of character. You neither trust him nor the Republican Governor of Hawaii [and McCain supporter] who inspected and verified the original records.
I recall vividly every President since Eisenhower, and I don't know of a single one whose actions in office were entirely consistent with his campaign representations. But I didn't consider any of them poseurs, or men without character--not even Nixon until he proved later he was deeply flawed.
If you have no trust in Obama or the many state officials who have publicly vouched for the authenticity of records reflecting his Hawaiian birth, why would you accept a long-form certificate which a nefarious, and apparently extraordinarily skilled claque of malelovent co-conspirators could forge or doctor?
Jer
There it is.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:46am.
This is a horrible horrible horrible President. But he was duly elected. If there truly is a problem with his birth certificate, there is a process to remove him. Impeachment. And not one of the 535 members of Congress have tried to do so to date over this issue.
The election was certified by the Senate at the time. It can't be undone. Evah. Only an impeachment can remove a sitting President.
Uhmm, why do you think I gave
Submitted by dscott on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 4:46am.
Uhmm, why do you think I gave it a 90% probability of illegitimacy in the face of the other choice of NOT being born here? What are the alternate explanations of why Obama refuses to show his long form? So who knows his reasons for concealing what is a routine document? Doesn't that defy common sense? How is that rational? Thus I have no choice but to "speculate" as to what his reasonings are. So Jer, besides the two named what other reasons can you conjure as to why an irrational person such as Obama would hide their long form in such a paranoid manner as to spend literally over a million dollars to conceal it? So no, it doesn't fly in the face of common sense. Which goes back to the issue of TRANSPARENCY and VETTING.
Well, I guess you have been listening...poseur, liar, devoid of character. All his actions to date are consistent with those descriptions.
I also recall all the presidents since Eisenhower and yes tricky Dick dishonored this country by his ego and being paranoid himself. But no president in my memory has behaved as badly, as arrogantly as this one, bar none.
"why would you accept a long-form certificate which a nefarious, and apparently extraordinarily skilled claque of malelovent co-conspirators could forge or doctor?"
You must have me confused with a conspiracy theorist. I accept documentation, I do not accept the verbal, TRUST ME. I do have my limits and that's my line in the sand. BTW, since one of my kids were born in Hawaii at the very hospital Obama claimed he was born, I have a long form and know what to look for on the birth certificate.
PS, the hospital which Obama claimed on Whitehouse stationery that he was born at Kapiolani Medical Center wasn't called that by that name at the time he was born. It was called: Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital and changed it's name in 1976 when it moved to its current location in 1979 to what we now know as Kapiolani Medical Center. http://www.kapiolanigift.org/timeline/index.html So if Obama has such a hard time keeping his facts straight, why in the world should anyone believe him? As attributed to Samuel Clemens, "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything" The typical pattern of a liar is to change the story when the facts are challenged. So this is why the Long Form is important - IF Obama's birth certificate does NOT have Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital on it, it is a forgery. Remember, if the dufus and his band of idiots are so stupid to claim on WHITEHOUSE STATIONERY that he was born in a hospital that literally didn't exist in the time frame of his birth, then quite clearly Obama doesn't have the proper long form in his possession. Now why is that Jer?
Or was he born at Queens Medical Center founded by Queen Emma and King Kamehameha IV? http://www.queensmedicalcenter.net/about-us/about-the-medical-center
I don't know, does Obama?
WOW!!! I can't believe what
Submitted by Liberallies on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:13am.
WOW!!!
I can't believe what I am reading on this thread!!! Otherwise rational Conservatives with whom I h ave agreed countless of times falling for this Birth Certificate stuff!!!
My fellow Conservatives, drop this issue. This is a non-starter. It is a dead issue. President Obama will never be removed as President for this issue.
This does make Conservative sound paranoid, nutty, like the crazy Truthers!
Obama's mother was a natural-born American citizen, this citizenship passed on to Obama making him a natural-born citizen. Period end of story.
i agree that Obama not releasing his university records is weird and fishy. This has been done by previous Presidential candidates or Presidents with no problem. Even Kerry did it despite having the same and worst grades than Bush.
But the Birther issue is not going to get a Republican elected to the White House. What it will do is have Obama re-elected.
Regardless of the records
Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:07pm.
Regardless of the records being sealed (frankly I see much of it as a smoke screen anyway), I find it very revealing all the effort to keep them all sealed by the POTUS who promised to be the most transparent and open in history.
Anyone else get that blatant hypocrisy?
Yeah, I know...preaching to the choir. :-)
Nobody is falling for this Birth Certificate stuff.
Submitted by NL207 on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 8:59pm.
The BC itself is a red herring.
It is almost certain Obama was born in either Hawaii or in Seattle. These were the only places records place his mother around the time of his birth. Moreover, despite the fact Obama's Kenyan relatives claim he was born there, no evidence exists to support their testimony. I take that to mean they are liars in this regard.
US Code excludes loss of US citizenship by a minor due to the actions of a parent. This means it does not matter if his mother had him adopted by his step father in Indonesia. However, if he exercised Indonesian citizenship as an adult, given the citizenship laws of Indonesia, he renounced US citizenship in so doing.
It is not the circumstances of his birth or minority that exclude from the Presidency. It is his paternity and possibly his actions as a young adult. Obama is not a natural born citizen.
This is even sadder ....
Submitted by NL207 on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 8:09pm.
Did Obama satisfy the Constitution? Who cares how many people he has deceived? If he is Constitutionally unqualified to be the President he must be removed and it is plainly clear his father was not a citizen, hence he is not a 'natural born' citizen.
Did you know that as of 2007, 40 of 50 states did not verify the citizenship of newly registering voters? Does this mean these unlawful electors should be allowed to vote after they are discovered because the registrar failed to do due diligence? Of course not! They should be purged from the rolls just as Obama should be removed from office.
Why shouldn't they be
Submitted by dscott on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:08am.
Why shouldn't they be confidential? The only possible relevance would be as part of a general fishing expedition conducted by political dirt-diggers and detractors searching for any shred of evidence suggesting his name, birthplace, residence, or other biographical data contained therein was inconsistent with his public statements or other public records.
You sure you want to go with this line of argument? It's called the vetting process, we, the public are entitled to know all the dirt IF there is any because just as with performing security clearances a person becomes a target of unscrupulus people who use people's secrets to force them to do questionable things. The power of a secret is leverage. Barack Obama is privileged to the most sensitive secrets in THEE WORLD. Do you really want a person to have access to said secrets if they are personally vulnerable to extortion? Do you really want a person who has conflicts of interest to quietly be tempted on the basis of secrecy to abuse their public trust to enrich themselves? By forcing FULL DISCLOSURE all leverage is removed and all temptation is set aside since the person in question knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that their life is an open book and thus any idea of secretly doing anything untoward is a non-starter.
Obama claimed he wants TRANSPARENCY. Is hiding his long form birth certificate TRANSPARENCY? Is hiding his grades TRANSPARENCY? Is hiding his biographical data TRANSPARENCY? Let me offer this to you as liberals have forgotten this concept which they themselves made famous: THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY. The POTUS must be beyond reproach as he represents ALL of us, not just the constituency that elected him. How are we who didn't vote for him to trust him at all if he panders to our suspicion? Obama has had two years to lay his cards on the table to dispell the appearance of impropriety and he hasn't, not only hasn't he tried, he has literally performed every legal trick in the book to keep it that way... One does not need dirt diggers IF one is being TRANSPARENT. IF Obama is so weak that he is afraid then quite frankly he is not worthy of anyone's trust.
"when in fact it is a BIOGRAPHY?"
Submitted by NL207 on Wed, 04/20/2011 - 12:29am.
There are some who claim the Obama Autobiography is in fact a work of fiction.
As far as I can tell, they're
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:12pm.
As far as I can tell, they're both right..................so what's the big deal???
Dose adjustments needed for Eleanor.
Submitted by drsamherman on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:21pm.
I would increase the Seroquel, Namenda and Aricept by at least 25% each. I might also increase her Pristiq dose by about 50%.
No Captain Can Do Very Wrong If He Places His Ship Alongside Tha
Submitted by im41 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:33pm.
On the birther issue
I don't know that Mrs. Palin is on the birther issue.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:26pm.
But Donald Trump is. And yes he does not have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. But for whatever reason he is pushing the issue, Gawd love him.
I liked your link.
Snowball?
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:26am.
Is that a veiled racial remake, Vet?
Could be an obscure reference
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:10pm.
Could be an obscure reference to The Simpsons.
Snowball?
Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:26am.
Is that a veiled racial remark, Vet?
Freudian slip?
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:35pm.
Or did Eleanor blurt out the truth? The 2012 election is going to be real interesting, considering 7 states have a "must prove your a citizen" law in order to be on their ballots. Or will he just ignore those laws as well??
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
BEG,
Submitted by Dave. on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:04pm.
Freudian slip?
That is exactly what I was thinking.
It's going to be fun watching her try to put that cat back in it's bag. :-)
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
It's time for John McLaughlin to find someone to replace Eleanor
Submitted by CarolinaJimbo on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:41pm.
She doesn't debate. She shrieks. Time for her to get on her broom and fly away.
Eleanor Clift
Submitted by NotFondOfLibs on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:25pm.
There is has always been a reason I do not subscribe to Newsweek. The reason is: Eleanor Clift. She is a shining example of the shrieking harpie who thinks she has something important to say.
The replacement for Helen
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:10pm.
The replacement for Helen Thomas?
The epitome of the "brain-dead Liberal"
Submitted by CarolinaJimbo on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:44pm.
Eleanor Clift is so clueless. I really don't know why John McLaughlin keeps her on the show. There are Liberals much more articulate than her. Too many of her little gray cells have died.
He's not only classless,
Submitted by motherbelt on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 8:56pm.
He's shameless.
And so is Clift.
Would someone please tell me
WHERE ARE THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY IN RYAN'S BUDGET? HOW MUCH OF A CUT ARE THEY GETTING FROM WHERE THEY ARE NOW?
Congressman Ryan said this to Bob Schieffer about his proposed budget:
First of all we're not talking about cutting taxes. We're just not agreeing with the President's tax increases. I guess that's the new definition of tax cuts. We're saying keep tax rates where they are right now.
This is the newest canard: another tax cut for the rich. They, and Obama, should be ashamed.
But, as I said, they are shameless.
Classless but has the media in his pocket.
Submitted by desert3030 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:00pm.
In no way shape or form will the shadow government, CNN, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, NPR or major Lib papper, ie LA Tmes & NYT allow Obama NOT TOO BE reelected. You can chew on it anyway you want the Lib portion of our country will never allow it. And there are many ways they would, will, and can prevent it.
We have too sit back and try to get both Houses and play a netruel game for six years.
Tell me something...
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:39pm.
...are you always this pessimistic, or did you miss your daily dose of sunlight or vitamin-D? Would there even be a Tea party if everyone was as negative and hopeless as you? Stop throwing turds at the people who actually have faith and the courage to do something!
Visions and Principles blog
Tell me something...
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:55pm.
...aren't you the idiot that claimed China could take on the world's mightiest navy, a navy that is bigger than the next 13 countries COMBINED?
My, it looks like you may be right. Looks like China tested their new nasty jet fighter a few months back and shot down a fighter in a test.... Oh..... Wait....
....the News Broadcast program on China Central Television, the major state television broadcast company. They supposedly showed a J-10 fighter firing a missile at another aircraft during a practice exercise.
Wow. That is scary alright. But wait.... Was that fighter it shot down. Was that... Why... Why I do believe it was the same plane from the movie TOP GUN. No, not the same type of plane, THE VERY SAME FOOTAGE FROM THE MOVIE.
In other words. THEY FAKED IT. Now why would they fake footage? Hmmmmmmm.
The Vet: They might be modernising. But they ain't there yet. (referring to China's ability to take out a U.S Carrier)
ckc1227: They aren't there yet? That would be news to the Pentagon ~ They were there 3 years ago.
I shipped a copy of Red Dawn Rising in case they want to show off one of their brand spanky new diesel subs that you so love.
Loser.
Awwww. Dang. It wuzn't you. That was your loser buddy ckc1227 that stalked me for 2 weeks after I told his now banned buddy barack_me_yet to knock off that profanity that got him banned.
That is right, you are the loser that harasses me because I am civil with Uncle Jer. Boy, I sure do get the 2 of you mixed up a lot.
Wow! Eleanor (over the) Clift finally utters something...
Submitted by Dave. on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:01pm.
...I agree with.
LOL - Must be a full moon tonight.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
I just took the dog out
Submitted by Dave. on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:16pm.
LOL - It is a full moon.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
the hallmark of a failed argument
Submitted by theduck6 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:10pm.
change the subject, obfuscate and make an outrageous statement.
Lowry has too much class to say...
Submitted by hoystory on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:18pm.
Eleanor, you ignorant slut!
Elaeanor Clift is not only a lousy opinionator ...
Submitted by LibertyAtStake on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:22pm.
... but also a terrible demagogue.
"What else would you expect from a socialist born in Kenya who’s hiding his birth certificate?"
Memo to Eleanor: the snark shouldn't make your opponent's point.
d(^_^)b
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
"Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive"
I was under the false
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:43pm.
I was under the false impression that Eleanor Clift was Barnaby Fwanks sister - and then I was going to make some snide comment about the correlation between a hag and a fag.......but I discovered that Ann Lewis is Fwanks sister.......................but it seems that my comparison is still valid, huh???
Oh fer the love of Trolljegeren
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:47pm.
The man was born in Hawaii and produced a birth certificate. It is a dead dead dead issue. He has already served out more than 2 years of his sentence.
But apparently this issue is driving the liberals batpoo. So, in the name of Ragelfanten, can we get some more Donald Trumps out there. Quick. And let's find out the name of the doctor that spanked Obama's butt.
Ahh......just remember, my
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:17pm.
Ahh......just remember, my old Vet buddy, that our new Governor - the sawed-off cretin Neil Uber-commie - was going to put this whole thing to rest, but couldn't deliver the goods. Of course, the whole thing is so convoluted that it's prit'near impossible to keep up with - but I did hear Boy Blunder say that 'most people are comfortable that the President was born where he said he was, in Hawaii'.........basically referring to himself in the third person. And ol' Neil's self-admitted 'first recollection' of seeing little Barry was when he was 'playing T-ball, or something'. My genuine Hawaiian grandson is playing T-ball now, and he is almost 5 years old.....................
Of course...............there's nothing here that matters...........
Oh Oh Oh by the way.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:51pm.
Right Wing Conspiracies are teh best.
No one ever got nutty screamy loonie toons on national TV and whined about the 9/11 troofers. But here it is nearly 3 years later and the left is still getting worked up about the BC. More cowbell please. More Donald Trump please.
Vet...You mean if the left never mentions the "birther" issue
Submitted by Jer on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:06pm.
again, it will just go away?
If that's the case I will make it my personal mission to get them to shut the hell up.
Jer
Yes.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:38pm.
It would be cast aside along with the various Kennedy conspiracy theories, the Shadow People, the Contrail conspiracies, the Aliens walking among us, the Bush Lied conspiracies, and the 9/11 troofers.
And it was. As we have discussed before, they could come out tomorrow with proof President Obama was born in the darkest hottest depths of hell with 666 marked somewhere on his skull and it would be tied up in the courts until the day he left office 21 months from now. Only Congress can unseat a seated President. And if they don't want to do it, he stays. You know that.
But this is just one of these things that tickles and itches and squirms and DEAR LORD MAKE IT STOP at the brains of the left that this issue WILL NOT DIE EVER. And the ones that actually have a shot at power won't touch it. But this friggin' Trump guy, out there day after day after day..... AHHHHHHHH!!!!! Someone stop that guy! What? What do you mean he ain't in government and can't be stopped. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!`1!!~~!``!! ←←←←← By the way, that, that comes from angrily just stabbing at the 1 key in a fit of rage.
You, Like Jer, Are a Liar.
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:47pm.
Except that the president Has Never Shown His Long Form birth certificate. It's a pretty simple proposition -- show us the document. He won't, has spent millions of dollars, and fought it in every single court case that would require it. The question is why?
Your answer is that it doesn't matter. That's because you're a coward and a liar. You're a coward because you implicitly take the side of power and support it, whether or not it is rightfully established. The truth has nothing to do with you, like it has nothing to do with Jer.
Frankly, people like the both of you are really embarrassments to the human race, if you are human, and not some kind of weird ostrich-human offspring. How does it feel to sit with your head in the sand day after day? I imagine it must make you feel morally superior. Keep at, man, and pretty soon you'll burrow your way down to where Jer is. He has a few years head start, though. Your ability to ignore the truth and your cowardice at not addressing important questions needs to be developed before you can reach Jer's level of esteemed ignorance.
But I do love how this question bothers both of you. I suppose it is painful to keep ignoring the truth. I hope it continues to plague you both. Maybe, someday, you will develop a conscience.
Visions and Principles blog
Awww. Look boys and girls. Tenebrous called me a liar.
Submitted by The Vet on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:58pm.
Oh. And a coward. Boy that is gonna stick. Now I am hurt.
I am getting verklempt.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:24am.
Tenebrous called me a big fat fat fatty liar liar and.... Well, now everyone knows. I shall just walk away in shame.
...you implicitly take the side of power... --- Wait. You saying I don't speak truth to power?
...I do love how this question bothers both of you... Yes Retard. That is the essence everyone took away from my post above. Oh wait. Not everyone. Just you. The Retard. Everyone else read what I wrote and understood the English I used to make my point. Was it the More or the Donald or the Trump that confused you?
Please. Please don't show everyone to be the liar I am not. It scares me. I won't post here no more mister. Please. Now everyone knows I iz a big fat liar that never backs up what he says and they know you are Mister Truthies.
I guess I should feel pained, Vet...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:42am.
but somehow, when the source is Tenebrous, insults lose their sting. I suppose it is because, as most here, I believe, have by now surmised, Tenebrous is defined by invective and nothing but invective. It is his very essence. It is who he is and all he is, and dispensing it is what he does.
U J
Mmmmmm. Mmmphhhhhh. Mmmmmmmlllmphhh.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:54am.
I luz Uncle Jer. Luz him to death. Looks like Tenebrous has drug us out of the closet. Now, let's go back to the openly gay kissing. Mmmmmm. Mmmphhhhhh. Mmmmmmmlllmphhh.
Friggin' idiot freakshow Tenebrous idiots need to stay out of my junk. Oh wait, I said idiot twice there. But he is a special brand of idiot idiot so I guess it stands.
For heaven's sake, Vet...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:26am.
The family will stuff me back in the attic. I won't even be let out for Thanksgiving..just a plate of cold leftovers left by the door.
Uncle Jer
gee whiz guys get a room.
Submitted by dscott on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:58pm.
gee whiz guys get a room.
Does that mean Eleanor is on our side?
Submitted by pbthinker on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 9:57pm.
Has anyone seen Obama's birth certificate yet???
Clift vs Lowery
Submitted by Jer on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:01pm.
I'm just wondering what happened to the obligatory Sunday NB headline: "Clift Schooled By Conservatives On McLaughlin Group Panel"
;-)
Jer
Maybe they didnt want to say
Submitted by killa37 on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:21pm.
Maybe they didnt want to say 'Clift bitch-slapped by Lowry'..........
That would suggest that Cliff
Submitted by needle on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:07pm.
That would suggest that Cliff learned something.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
Reason this show is on the air
Submitted by sbirdog on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:11pm.
If the federal government was not subsidizing this NPR joke, they wouldn't be on the air. There is zero profit in "stupid."
It truly frightens me that Barack Obama may win reelection
Submitted by Rush Fan on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:22pm.
because at least half, if not more, of the American people are uninformed, poorly educated, and/or stupid. Consequently, they are as blind to demagoguery as Barack Obama is to truth.
How Obama got Elected
Good Post Rush Fan
Submitted by Comrade Jim on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:16pm.
Among other things, it shows why the Media keep their hatchets busy no matter how foolish they have to be.
I am less worried about this.
Submitted by needle on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:20pm.
It appears to me that that same dynamic that characterized the 2010 election is still operative; and indeed the exact same way-out-of-touch leadership of Obama, Reid & Pelosi are still doing their thing – that exact same thing that turned 2010 into a shellacking. My TEA leaves say that, if this keeps up, 2012 is going to be a route. As another wag put it: 2012 could make 2010 look like a minor slip and fall case for the Dems.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
Also factor in the
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:15pm.
Also factor in the possibility that the Republicans could blow the campaign like they did with McCain. The Repubs better get a backbone and get agressive for 2012. IMHO they caved with the budget and unless they actually grow a pair (collectively speaking of course) we may be saddled with another 4 years of the "annointed one." That is scary.
Someone has to say it...
Submitted by Bill Brasky on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:23pm.
Liberals lie and a lot of them are just plain stupid. This woman is a moron.
We do not need any more demagoguery from you, John McLaughlin
Submitted by needle on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 10:59pm.
“MCLAUGHLIN: You don’t think the American people could see through that and they saw that it was demagoguery.”
The American people? Well, yes, if we are talking about mature adults, but not the juvenile Kool-aid drinkers that stormed Madison, Wisconsin by the thousands a couple of months ago, and who populate the Democrats’ leftist demonstrations in general. However, to watch our classless president irresponsibly stroking such suggestible hooligans is disgusting.
Of course, Leftist PBS bowdlerizes the inanities and insanities of the Leftist demonstrators, so at least McLaughlin can CLAIM to be unaware of such stuff; whether or not he is actually that ignorant is up for grabs.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
The fact that makes me sleep
Submitted by mostlymoderate on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:00pm.
The fact that makes me sleep better at night is knowing that all these old hippies that look and think the way Eleanor Clift acts are starting to grow old. Since the 1960's, these degenerate haters of America have been destroying everything wonderful about America. They won't be missed.
Talk about a lost generation…!
Submitted by needle on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:28pm.
I am with you on this.
However, bear in mind that Obama is a baby boomer (regardless of where he was born). I wish he were more mature, but he ain’t.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
Obama is a Narcissist.
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 11:50pm.
I don't think that narcissists ever grow up.
Visions and Principles blog
Tenebrous is an idiot.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:36am.
I don't think that idiots ever learn anything.
---- Vittles and Porn blog
You are correct about Obama
Submitted by mostlymoderate on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:53am.
You are correct about Obama being young. However, it is the liberal hippies that catapulted this nobody into the limelight. Less than five years ago, hardly anybody knew who he was but with the help of the liberal media machine, Obama was made President. Talk about pulling a rabbit out of the hat. I believe that if the mainstream media can pull something off like that, they know they can turn the U.S.A. the socialist mecca of the World.
Let's just hope all these hippies are as old looking as Eleanor Clift and will soon be too weak to fight against America any longer.
MostlyModerate, Oh, the
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:55am.
MostlyModerate,
Oh, the catapulting of Obama into a bigger role had been going on in Illinos for a long, long time. As a resident of Illinois we received countless of news stories of Obama starting about three to four years or so before he launched his Presidential campaign.
The local media went crazy, made specials out of it during trips he took to Africa. It was ridiculous!
and let us not start talking how the media in Illinois carried water for him and defended his thuggery during the United States Senate election that he won. First they helped him destroy Ryan and then they did everything they could to paint Alan Keyes as a wacko. Interestingly enough, Keyes was much more sane back then. The local media, much like now the national media, did everything in their power to cover for Obama.
Obama is a product of Chicago politics and he was preped for the Chicago machine to become national in the White House by the media and the Chicago political machine.
From the Sunday Standard of
Submitted by MikeB on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:26am.
From the Sunday Standard of Nairobi, Kenya, published Sunday, June 27, 2004, and has an AP stamp on it. Granted, Snopes claims that the phrase "Kenyan born" was added only to the Sunday Standard newspaper. Why would that paper do so? Why wouldn't the paper state that Obama's father was born in Kenya, but that Obama was born in Hawaii?
His grandmother made the claim she was there when he was born in Kenya. She should know.
The left made the claim that McCain was not American born, and he produced his birth certificate. The story died. Obama spent millions of dollars to keep his hidden. The current Leftist Democrat governor of Hawaii said that he was tired of the controversy, and he would show the world Obama's birht certificate. Then he claimed he couldn't find it, and everyone needs to shut up.
If the governor of Hawaii couldn't find the birth certificate, why couldn't he? If what Obama showed as a birth certificate was, indeed, a long form birth certificate showing Obama was born in Hawaii, and gave the attending physician's name and all the other vital information, why does the controversy continue? I am given to understand that a woman who was born in Hawaii, and who saw the document provided by Obama, stated that the document produced was not, in fact, a Hawaiian birth certificate, and she showed hers for comparison.
If Obama has shown his bona fide Hawaiian birth certificate, why have 7 different states enacted legislation that will require that candidates prove they are Constitutionally qualified to run for the office of President of the United States?
I believe there is (or was) a video clip wherein Michelle also referred to Barak as being born in Kenya. I really do not want to listen to the the First Clydesdale long enough to go through all the youtube videos where she is speaking to try and find it. If someone else can suffer that fool long enough to find it, you have my admiration.
Birther issue??! really
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:56am.
Birther issue??! really people?! Is this how Republicans, how we Conservatives intend to win in 2012? Really?! Keep it going and you can bet we'll lose!!!
It doesn't freaking matter where Obama was born....HIS MOTHER WAS BORN IN THE USA, SHE WAS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AT THE TIME HE WAS BORN!! this makes President Obama a Natural Born American with all the Rights and Duties of a Natural Born American.
I am so sick and tired of this issue!
President Barack Hussein Obama, even though one of the worst Presidents the USA has had, has the Right to become President of the United States regardless of where he was born. His mother, at the time of his birth, was a natural born American and an American citizen. This citizenship is automatically transferred to any of her offsprings.
For example, my wife is pregnant. If we travel to Italy and she gives birth in Italty, our son/daughter would automatically be an American citizen with all the Rights and Duties that come with this citizenship!!!
Stop this silly nonsense. Unless someone can prove that Obama's mother was not an American citizens at the time of his birth, there is ZERO case here!
Of course, the Liberal media loves to push this story because it makes the Right look retarded. Sadly, we do have some of that in our ranks.
Don't say that in front of the Tenebrous Retard.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:16am.
What are you high? The Constitution was written when only men were given the rights to have citizenship passed down. Not women. And Congresses since then have not updated the concept of Natural Born Killers I mean Citizenship. So we have to go back to the concept as written 230 years ago in that sperm is what gives you citezenshiip only. And the sperm that made Barack Husein Obama came from an African citizen so President Obama can only be an African Dude. Oh and you love Jer too. Kiss him. Kiss him now.
Mr. Shy is a birth-guy
Submitted by MrShy on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:52am.
But my libtard brother has turned me into one the past few days. It's all he harps about, so I looked into it, and sure enough I think he might have been conceived in Kenya.
BUT.... like Teh Vet points out, I don't think anything will take this guy down with how he is coddled and protected by the media, and we're 3/5ths the way in.
Either way, I refuse to call anyone not sure about Jug Ears The Liar a name that sounds close to what we call truly sick 9/11 non-believers.
EDIT: But no, I'm not really one. Again, my dopey bro is just in high-gear and stealthly defending and shilling for Jug Ears.
- Shy Vinyl
Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent
You know me brother.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:14am.
I always got a reason to fire on hostile Retards.
#28 Liar.
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 7:16pm.
Whoa. You call The Vet a liar? Back it up. Oh wait, it's Tenebrous...
14 Ok, enough...
Submitted by Tenebrous on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 7:22pm.
...why don't Jer and The Vet get a room?
Ok. That might be fair except that I was politely disagreeing with him at the time... Wait, I always politely disagree with Jer so what is.... Oh wait, it's Tenebrous....
PS: Yeah, this birth certificate thing is driving the left up the wall. I iz birther too. Blah Blah Blah he was born in Hawaii. But inquiring minds want to know. What is the name of the doctor that smacked Obama's butt?
Mr.Shy, Whether he was born
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:02am.
Mr.Shy,
Whether he was born in Kenya or not is irrelavent since his mother, at the time of his birth, was an American citizen thus this makes him a natural born citizen no matter what corner of planet Earth he was born in. Shoot, according to the laws right now, he could have been born in the Moon, but since his mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth, he automatically is considered a natural-born American citizen.
I think the whole Birth certificate thing has to do more with being Muslim or not. I would be more interested in this side of the story than the Birther issue.
As we all know George Stupidnapolous covered very well for Obama when back then candidate Obama had a freudian slip and clearly stated, "My Muslim Faith..." Stupidnapolous "corrected" him by saying, "you mean your Christian Faith..."
I am also a lot more interested in why he has not released his university records, transcripts and law school thesis. These are a lot more interesting to me than the whole non-birther issue.
Even if Obama was born in
Submitted by MikeB on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:43pm.
Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, and that is open for debate no matter how much some of you wish it would go away, the fact is, he traveled on an Indonesian passport. Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship. To have received an Indonesian passport, he would have had to renounce both being a British subject (Kenya was a British colony when he was born, not an independent country) and his American citizenship. Let me repeat: he RENOUNCED his American citizenship. He is, therefore, no matter where his place of birth, not a natural born citizen. Do his financial aid papers at University show he applied for financial aid as a foreign student? I don't know, but I have to wonder. Arguing against that is the fact that someone would leak the documents if that were the case. On the other hand, if his financial aid records did show him as a foreign student, given the firmness the Lame Stream Media have their collective lips attached to Obama's backside, the only publication that would cover the story would be The National Enquirer. But, why are those records sealed?
Hi MikeB, A couple of
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:37pm.
Hi MikeB,
A couple of things.
1) I work in the educational world. I work with a university. Foreign students CANNOT receive Federal Financial Aid. Only Green Card holders or American citizens are eligible for Federal Financial Aid. Furthermore, did he use Federal Financial Aid to get through college? college was not as expensive as today during the itme he attended, so there wouldn't be much there. However, if you know his social security, I would be able to get into his Federal Financial Aid records since these are PUBLIC since it is falls into the FOIA. The problem is with his university which is private and doesn't fall into FOIA.
2) I know countless of people who have an American passport along with the passport of a nation which doesn't allow dual citizenship. However, countries to do not report to each other on this matter. Thus, you can hold the dual citizenship and neither country will ever know unless you tell them.
3) I agree, there IS something with his college records since they are completely sealed and he refuses to release them. I think it has to do more with his thesis in law school, his grades and probably that it states that he considered himself a Muslim.
#1, ok try this one:
Submitted by dscott on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:05pm.
#1, ok try this one: 042-68-4425
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=275861
Weather or not they can recieve aid
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:19pm.
Is irrelevant. He can still gain admittance as a foreign student.
So is giving illegals in-State tuition, considered aid?
I think, that
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:03am.
dollar for dollar, it was as expensive then as it is now..
Which SS# do you want, the real one, or one of the ones he used?
"probably that it states that he considered himself a Muslim" and I think that's the issue with the real BC. His fun-loving dad, or mom, may have listed him as a Muslim, cuz once you're born one, you're one forever. That is, or should be the kiss of death for a candidate, if everyone is actually thinking about it. Think Shari'a, think beheadings, think homicide bombers.
The Vet, HAHAHAHA!!! You
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:57am.
The Vet,
HAHAHAHA!!! You have me laughing out loud!!! LOL
Amazing how irrational the Birthers are. No matter the facts, the laws, the logic, they come back with the same silly and irrational debate points.
President Obama needs to lose in 2012, but anyone who believes that this will happen through the Birther issue is beyond help.
Sounds right in theory
Submitted by ckc1227 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:58am.
"For example, my wife is pregnant. If we travel to Italy and she gives birth in Italty, our son/daughter would automatically be an American citizen with all the Rights and Duties that come with this citizenship!!!"
And yet, McCain had to have a congressional hearing to determine/decide that he was eligible to be president under the very scenario you laid out.
By the way, if you have a child today, today's laws apply to that child. The law was different in 1961. Might want to look into that.
"Of course, the Liberal media loves to push this story because it makes the Right look retarded."
No, weak-kneed Republicans like you allow the media to get away with labeling the Right as retarded. I don't believe Obama was born in Kenya, but it's not a retarded position to question why he won't release his actual birth certificate. But instead, you've allowed the media and the democrats to define the issue, and as a result, you're afraid they'll talk bad about us. Hell, forget the birth certificate...is it also retarded that every other document related to his life is under lock and key as well?
"Is this how Republicans, how we Conservatives intend to win in 2012? Really?!"
I'll take a victory any way I can get it. The more doubt raised about the clown in chief, the better.
"Keep it going and you can bet we'll lose!!!"
Is that you, Medved? Or maybe it's Rove. Stop being such a wuss. Next you'll be saying we have to cave on Planned Parenthood funding because dems will say we want to kill women, or something.
ckc1227, The laws were
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:48am.
ckc1227,
The laws were different in 1961 versus today regarding birth and citizenship status? REALLY?!!! WOW!!!
Ok, do this, show how the law was different. Prove it!!! Just saying that the laws are different doesn't make it so.
McCain had a Congressional hearing to determine his citizenship status? eh? care to put the date, time of the hearing. Who was present too?
In 1961, just like today, if one of your parents was an American citizen at the time you were born, it did not matter what nation you were born in, you automaticaly have the right to be an American ctizens with all of the Rights and Duties that come with being born inside the USA! You were considered back then, just like today, a "natural-born" citizen.
I allow the media to define the issue? Are you serious with your weak insults and silly demagoguery?
The Birther issue will NOT get any Republican elected into the White House that is a guarantee!!! Plus, there is NOT Birther issue except in the minds of radical wackos who harm the Conservative cause. Amazing that anyone would carry water for these wackos. No different than the Truther wackos.
President Obama can be defeated in a million ways, but the Birther issue will NOT be one of them.
And I have ZERO problem pushing very hard and making it a huge issue that Obama has not released his college transcripts, degrees, law school thesis. this I would fight for and it would be worthy. But the birther issue? LOL really?!
Private Bill Wilson has a cousin on the right.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:49am.
Looks like we have a McCain birther in the ckc1227 sack of monkeysnot. First, let's look at the monkeysnotman ---
ckc1227 the monkeysnotman : ... McCain had to have a congressional hearing to determine/decide that he was eligible to be president...
j. frank wilson's lies found in The Collected Lies of J. Frank Wilson. Newsbusters oldest prolific lying troll. -
113. - The McCain birther. -- You claim "When McCain BC and citizenship came up he cleared it up." Nope. It was done for him by his friends in the United States Senate.
113.1 What did Sen. McCain do? Let his friends in the Senate pass a law that he is a natural born citizen? - The Senate passed a simple resolution. Resolutions do not carry the force of law.
113.2 I never suggested Sen. McCain was not a "natural-born citizen" of the United States. Besides, since the US Congress settled that by what I would consider to be a private bill, it's moot.
113.3 If Mr. McCain's status as a natural-born citizen was not in question, why did Congress pass the private bill that stated he was? - It was a simple resolution not a private bill. The exact resolution is here.
113.4 Of course you missed where I wrote "what amounts to..." - Yes. The direct quote is above. He said the private bill
I believe the links to the exact resolution still works. A simple resolution does not carry the force of law. His fellow Senators were just stating they believe he is indeed a U.S citizen is all it was.
Hey congratulations ckc1227, you are the only one EVER IN THE HISTORY of Newsbusters to agree with a 145 time liar troll that was banned for cause on the McCain Birther issue.
The 2 McCain birthers --- j. frank wilson and ckc1227.
ERRRRR!!! WRONG!
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:53am.
BO's moms was not old enough to confer citizenship at the time of his birth, plus his father's citizenship at the time of his birth makes him a dual citizen. Either way he's not eligible.
As to this being a dead issue: Since when is the U.S. Constitution a dead issue? Of all the damage inflicted by this bastard, homage to newsbubba, his SCOTUS appointees' removal via all presidential matters rendered invalid, through unmet Constitutionally defined presidential eligibility requirements, has gone virtually unnoticed.
We're good with requiring long form birth certificate for little league and John McCain, but after 2.5-3 years we call it dead? No effen way!
Show it or GTFO!!
More birther
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:16pm.
More birther craziness!!!
BO's mom was not old enough to confer citizenship at the time of Obama's birth?!!! WHAT THE HECK?!!!!! Where are these people getting this ridiculous information from? Are Truthers and Birthers uniting in their overtop craziness?!
where do this wackos come from?! Where do they get this crazy nut ideas and lies from? No REAL Conservative, NO ONE who is serious about defeating Obama would take this seriously!!!
Obama's mom was a citizen at the time of Obama's birth! No matter where Obama was born, his mother was an American citizen thus passed on this citizenship to Obama making Obama a natural-born citizen! It doesn't matter what age you are when you give birth!!! WOW!!!!
Let's defeat Obama and let us make sure that the radical Left wing in America realizes that they awoke a sleeping gian, but my goddness people, seriously, the Birther issues is NOT an issue. It never was and it never will be. We can defeat Obama a million other ways LEAVE the birth issue alone since well.....it is NOT an issue. Obama can legally be President of the United States. His mother was a citizen at the time he was born. Thus, regardless of where he was born, he is a natural-born citizen. And...hmmm....yeah, it doesn't matter what age his mother was when Obama was born. WOW!!!
He may not be derivatively
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:29pm.
He may not be derivatively eligible on the basis of his mother's citizenship, but he is eligible on the grounds of his American birth, and every single shred of evidence adduced thus far supports the case for a Hawaiian birth. That evidence may be inadequate to satisfy you. Frankly, I have my doubts there is any evidence sufficient to convince you inasmuch as most of those with your "get the fuck out, bastard" mindset insist they would remain unpersuaded even if a long form document were produced, believing it would be just another fraudulent contrivance by this dark, massive conspiracy.
Jer
Jer, It never ceases to
Submitted by Liberallies on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:43pm.
Jer,
It never ceases to amaze me how no matter the facts, people just love their conspiracy theories! WOW!!
We Conservatives and Republicans are not doing ourselves any favor by allowing Birthers to continue to spout their craziness. These individuals must be marginalized and marginalized fast. If this continues while the American people are paying close attenting to the elections, which they are not right now, we will be doing the media and the Democratic party a huge favor.
Birthers need to be called out as the nut jobs they are on this matter. Obama can be defeated on his terrible, horrific Presidency. As we see today the S&P just downgraded the USA and the stock market is crashing! This along with so many other issues will get Obama booted out. The Birther issue will keep him there.
I agree with you Jer, Hell must have frozen, right?, no matter how much evidence is shown, Birthers, much like Truthers need to believe it. They could be brought back in time with Marty McFly and the Doc and see that Obama is a natural-born citizen and they would still claim it is not so.
Shame on you. Shame. Shame. Shame. and a little kissy smootch.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:34pm.
I am taking a lot of heat from the loonybins here, namely Tenebrous, ckc1227, and Willis_Loony_As_An_Outhouse_Rat_Leon_Johnson for supporting you when you are right and being nice even when you aren't. So if the loony birthers wanna come up with some aspect of the law that is complete and utter nonsense, you need to, at least on this issue, knock them down.
He may not be derivatively eligible on the basis of his mother's citizenship.... OH HELLS NO.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.
There is no record anywhere of Ann Dunham being out of the country at the time of President Obama's birth. Not in Kenya, even for a short visit. Not anywhere. And why would her husband bring her to his home country when he had not divorced his first wife? Yeah, there is a winning idea. Let's risk being murdered by bringing together the 2 wives who have no idea each other exists.
What's with the Republicans are in trouble meme??? ACA
Submitted by acaiguana on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:30am.
I don't get it. My read is that Mickey Mouse could beat Obama right now.
Yet all we hear is how disarrayed the Republicans are today and how Obama is going to have a $1 Billion war chest. Where does this figure of $1 Billion come about? We don't really know, but it sure sounds good.
Now the MSM is pining on that the Republican fund raising is low and that for sure means they are in trouble.
The problem with the election analysis that I've been assaulted by in the past few months is that the so-called experts are using the pre-Tea Party traditional models for Presidential elections from which to base their ideas.
Well, I don't believe them.
And I believe we should not give them the profundity to be so sure that Obama is going to win. I also believe that Obama is in so much re-election trouble right now that if Trump ran even with his silliness and reputation for self-promotion he would trounce Obama.
As would Palin, West, Rubio, Romney and the others.
We need to concentrate on re-educating the NRC about their point of view regarding how to raise money and lead the people to a strong victory. We need to concentrate on promoting strong conservative candidates for the next election and to preserve the current crop. We need to concentrate on the reality of the voting public's desire to return to a saner and more responsible government.
We don't need to be distracted by the idea that the Republicans are so weak in the face of this farce of a Democrat President that they are bound to lose.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)
I agree ACA
Submitted by Boudin on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:59am.
They just want folks to feel it's "hopeless", ironic to say the least. I would not be surprised to see Obama get primareid, if the dimwits can fine someone reasonably sane to run against him.
"My read is that Mickey Mouse
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:26pm.
"My read is that Mickey Mouse could beat Obama right now."
Although I hope you are correct, I point out that the election isn't now as you know...it's many months off and a whole lot of things can and will occur both good and bad which will greatly influence Obama's chances of re-election.
So IMHO polls right now don't mean much and have no value except to generate a little news coverage. I remind everyone that back around this time during the Carter administration no one gave Ronald Reagan much, if any, consideration for POTUS. From what I can determine Reagan declared his candidacy on November 13, 1979.
Sorry if it sounds "typical"
Submitted by Tomorama on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:44am.
The real "certificate of birth" probably states that he is muslim as denoted by his Daddies faith.
That is what they are "hiding".
He is embarrased by that.
As for the college paperwork and thesis etc, etc, his sitting in Rev Wrights church for 20 years says all I need to know about his "writings" and what "he really believes".
Actually the paperwork will
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:27pm.
Actually the paperwork will show that Obama actually wasn't born in this country...he was cloned at Area 51. :-)
[For those of you in Rio Linda, CA and Lutz, FL, that was humor.]
Liberals do not hide anything
Submitted by AndyR on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:54am.
Come on. Liberals are the most transparent people on earth. Don't believe me? Just ask John Kerry about his 180. See how fast he produced that. What? He didn't?
Or how about why Sandy Berger was taking documents from the archives?
What is it with Liberals and documents? That is a question the media needs to ask. HAHHAHA... never mind.
Get it right
Submitted by Huapakechi on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 9:27am.
The gist of your comment is laudable, but the least inaccuracy will have the libs hoisting you up for ridicule in spite of your academic achievements or history of service.
kerry refuses to release his original DD214 discharge record, probably because it was upgraded to "Honorable" by carter during the great amnesty.
Thanks for bringing that particular liberal socialist mendacity to light again.
But, but, but
Submitted by Tomorama on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:13am.
Notice how it is NOT reported that Obambi's records are all sealed.
Would that FACT alone not start people to question WHY?
He has SPENT many dollars to keep those records sealed and again transparent, an open book?
Hardly.
Remember also, Dan the man Rather is still sure his story was the truth even though the documents were fake.
Just like the NY Times was so sure about the McCain story as well.
Obambi was born here, but he is hiding the whole truth.
And Nancy Pelosi was going to
Submitted by Beukeboom on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:29pm.
And Nancy Pelosi was going to drain the swamp and have the most ethical House EVAH!
We all saw how that actually turned out.
I'm looking forward to the Barack and Hillary show.
Submitted by JLin on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:50am.
It will be Stalin - Trotsky redux. Who will wield the ice axe?
ERRRR!!! Wrong again Liberalallies!!!
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 1:08pm.
That U.S. law is a sticky thing.
'The law required any U.S. citizen having a child with a non-citizen to have been physically present in the United States for at least five years after the age of sixteen to automatically transmit American citizenship.' (Source: WND)
Translation: BO's moms would have had to have been 21 at the time of his birth to confer citizenship because she had a child with a non-citizen. She was 18.
Conclusion: Even if, and that's a, thus far unequivocally unproven if, BO was born in Hawaii, his mother was legally unable to confer citizenship, his father's British subject status renders BO a dual citizen, therefore BO is Constitutionally ineligible to be president.
It's not all of these that renders him ineligible, it's only one, and there are at minimum 2, non-disputable disqualifying factors. Mother unable to confer citizenship, BO born dual citizen.
His 2012 re-election defeat IS the focus. The 'birther' issue, in my opinion, is paramount for two huge reasons, Sotomayor and Kagan. It is folly to render the issue irrelevant. IT"S OUR CONSTITUTION DAMN IT!!!
The law is sticky alright and POSTED ONLINE.
Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:06pm.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.
That rule is only for BIRTH ABROAD. If he was born on U.S soil, hovering in a hammock above U.S soil, floating in a balloon above U.S Soil, or 6 miles below U.S soil, the time requirements DON'T APPLY.
I recommend Goo Gone, Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:18pm.
to extricate yourself. In the future watch where you're stepping because you are on unfamiliar turf.
Let me make this crystal clear: The overwhelming consensus among Constitutional scholars as well as the mandate of precedential case law holds that an American birth is sufficient in and of itself to satisfy the eligibility requirements to be President of the United States. As such, the dual citizenship/young mama/Kenyan daddy theories may be intriguing for the purposes of dinner table chatter and law school debates, but they are stripped of any relevance they might otherwise enjoy had Obama been foreign born.
The Constitution is indeed yours, too, but not to hijack for your own partisan purposes.
Jer
And And And And.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:10am.
Surely there is something in the law about once something is done, you can't go and undo it.
He was voted in on primaries in 50 states, states that had a chance to pass laws concerning birth certificates for decades or centuries. As some are doing right now. Barn. Horse. Open. Close. Before horse escapes.
He was voted in by the electoral college, people that would have a chance to investigate any funniness with birth certificates.
The election that brought him into office was certified by the Senate, another chance to bring up any funniness with birth certificates.
He has been in office 27 months. At any point during any one of those months, the members of Congress can bring up impeachment based on any evidence discovered at any point during those 27 months. THEY HAVE FAILED TO DO SO.
Write to your friggin' Congressman and leave us alone for the love of Trolljegeren.
WE DID NOT VOTE FOR THE MAN AND SHOULD NOT BE TORTURED BY YOUR SILLINESS OVER A MAN WE DID NOT VOTE FOR. IT IS ONE THING TO USE THIS TO DRIVE THE LEFT BANANAS. IT IS ANOTHER TO HARASS YOUR FELLOW RIGHT WINGERS OVER A DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD ISSUE.
Since..
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 2:59pm.
I can't find the code for one citizen one non-citizen parent citizenship conferring details, I guess I'll have to cling to the dual citizenship exemption to fulfill my removal from office on account of Constitutional ineligibility dream.
Then all I can say is...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:04pm.
dream on.
:-)
Jer
That feels like a kick in that pants.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:33am.
I coulda swore I posted the exact code here like 2 times.
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:06pm.
Partisan? Hardly. Unfamiliar turf with respect to quoting my source unaware that it pertained to birth abroad? Undisputed. Consensus among Constitutional scholars? I'd prefer the scholars on the Supreme Court decide the intricacies of our Constitution thank you very much. I may be new but I've read enough to know how you lean and I'll not be taking your advice anytime soon. No offense.
Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:19pm.
No offense taken.
What the Supreme Court says is the only thing that matters. But unless it can be shown Obama was foreign born, the game's over and all that other stuff won't even be part of the calculus.
Granted, there is some ambiguity surrounding the 'natural born citizen' provision, and it would be helpful if the SC ultimately accepted a case giving them the opportunity to issue a clarifying opinion. Otherwise, it would take a constitutional amendment to clean up the mess.
Jer
Can the Supreme Court unseat a seated President?
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:36am.
There is a process for that already written and occasionally followed in the past 230 years. And they ain't following it. Maybe the 535 members of Congress don't think this is important or warranted or THEY DON'T CARE. Kinda like they have not cared to intervene in any conspiracy theory.
build up
Submitted by malthus on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:10pm.
If Stanley Ann was Barry's sister or Frank Davis was his father, then this is a new ball of wax.
Obama loves America like OJ loved Nichole.
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 3:47pm.
There has never been provision in the Constitution for dual citizens to qualify for POTUS. Thoughtfully built in by the framers so that no individual with loyalties to another nation would occupy the executive office. So, playing pro-ineligibility, step one: Long for birth certificate, step two: dual citizen. Such a shame that we expect more of a little league baseball player that our President, that's what America has become.
And as a side note, I must admit that the love affair between you and Vet earlier was quite humorous and entertaining.
DJinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 4:09pm.
There has never been provision in the Constitution for dual citizens to qualify for POTUS.
Thank you. Nor is there a recipe for banana bread. But what is your point?
You made the cute Little League reference earlier. All my son had to furnish was his glove and my money. No birth certificates. Although after the Danny Ayala fiasco a few years ago, the requirements may have changed.
By the way, the McCain eligibility issue was never completely resolved. The Senate simply passed a resolution introduced by Democrats declaring him eligible and everybody moved on. It would be nice if the anti-Obama birther folks would do likewise.
Jer
Jer, makes one ponder why did
Submitted by wolfemanic on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 4:35pm.
Jer, makes one ponder why did Obama feel compelled to state that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 rather then the 14th amendment?
From Fight the Smears: “As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.”
wolfmanic...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 5:26pm.
Can you steer me toward the occasion of that remark?
Thanks...
Jer
Sure..
Submitted by wolfemanic on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 5:33pm.
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html
Thanks, wolfemanic...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 6:09pm.
I couldn't help but notice that it was not a case of Obama feeling compelled to state that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 rather than the 14th Amendment, but instead a response by the editors of Factcheck to the specific question: Is Obama a Kenyan citizen?
They then proceed to meticulously explain why he is not a Kenyan citizen and the significance of the British Nationality Act in reaching that conclusion. This was not an affirmation of reliance on the BNA for Obama's birth status.
Jer
Could it be Obama may not
Submitted by wolfemanic on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:02pm.
Could it be Obama may not want to be analyzed under the 14th amendment?
United States Supreme Court Associate Justice Hugo Black 1968 in a concurring opinion in Duncan vs Louisiana:
I know from my years in the United States Senate that it is to men like Congressman Bingham, who steered the (14th) Amendment through the House, and Senator Howard, who introduced it in the Senate, that members of Congress look when they seek the real meaning of what is being offered.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0391_0145_ZC.html
In a debate in 1872 Representative Bingham stated:
“As to the question of citizenship I am willing to resolve all doubts in favor of a citizen of the United States. That Dr. Houard is a natural-born citizen of the United States there is not room for the shadow of a doubt. He was born of naturalized parents within the jurisdiction of the United States, and by the express words of the Constitution, as amended to-day, he is declared to all the world to be a citizen of the United States by birth.”
http://books.google.com/books?id=wk0uAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA2791&dq=%22State+Depa...
Ten years earlier, he stated on the House floor:
“All from other lands, who by the terms of [congressional] laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians.” (Cong. Globe, 37th, 2nd Sess., 1639 (1862))
Then in 1866, Bingham also stated on the House floor:
“Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess, 1291 (1866))
The record is void of any challenges to these these statements on the House floor, in an arena where everything is challenged.
I believe if Rep. Bingham was here today Obama would have a very difficult time convincing him of his natural born identity due to his birth having fealty to the United Kingdom.
Dude. They did that too.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:39am.
The Senate simply passed a resolution introduced by Democrats declaring him eligible and everybody moved on. It would be nice if the anti-Obama birther folks would do likewise.
Dude. They so did for President Obama too. I ain't gonna look it up. There was a simple resolution stating pretty much the same thing as Senator McCain's resolution.
Interesting because I've
Submitted by wolfemanic on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 8:48am.
Interesting because I've never see it, and I would like to read it. They must have changed it dramatically for Obama.
Reason I say this is because in the McCain's 511 resolution it states twice..
"Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President."
"Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it...."
The required American citizenship of McCain's parents is consistently identified as plural, both.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-sr511/text
And?
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 9:18am.
Do you believe President Obama was born in Kenya then? It only requires one Amercan citizen if you are born on American soil.
No, lol, its not that easy. I
Submitted by wolfemanic on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 9:56am.
No, lol, its not that easy. I believe he was born in Hawaii. But I don't agree that the natural born citizen identity only takes one American citizen parent, it takes both.
It is proper to say, with regard to US Constitutional law, that this was the House definition of natural born citizen as stated on the floor by Representative Bingham. And this definition was never opposed on the floor. And that is exactly where it should have been, or should be opposed if it were not the truth.
Debate upon issues of Constitutional law such as this belong on the House floor. And when an issue this important comes before the nation on the floor of “the people’s House”, and the issue is not challenged by any Representative of the people, then it’s certainly proper to infer that the House of Representatives, as a whole, agreed with that definition.
After all, our nation is governed by debate on the floor of the House. But there never was debate on this issue because it was a proper statement of Constitutional law. The definition of natural born citizen as stated on the House floor = born in the US to parents who are citizens. It’s not like those folks were incapable of correcting each other’s mistakes.
Since no Supreme Court case ever stated a different definition of “natural born citizen”, and no Representative ever challenged Bingham on this point, the House definition stands and officially remains unchallenged as of today. If the House wants to change this definition, let them bring the issue to the floor now and properly debate it.
Until then, call it the House of Representatives definition as offered by the father of the 14th Amendment who was, and never has been challenged upon it.
Debate on the floor does not equate with law.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 10:21am.
Otherwise we would call bubble gum Yummy Chewy Chicle Sap as per a conversation between Representative Nelson Trainbridges and Representative Fred Oglefee in 1956.
I don't know if we can equate
Submitted by wolfemanic on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:54am.
I don't know if we can equate this with a conversation over bubble gum, but ok we look at the law.
Switching gears a bit, Consider the detention in Italy for military service of Ugo Da Prato, who was born in Boston, August 25, 1895, and went to Italy in 1912 to study architecture.
Your position is that the United States has no obligation to recognize and respect dual nationality – Obama being case in point.
That has been unequivocally proved wrong by official correspondence between former Secretary of State Robert Lansing (who served from 1905-1920) and former Senator Henry Cabot Lodge.
State department published its position in The American Journal of International Law, Volume 9.
http://books.google.com/books?id=O2ENAAAAIAAJ&dq=%22The%20cases%20of%20p...
Nothing has changed since the United States has adopted the position that we shall abide by foreign nationality laws as to persons born with dual allegiance, such a person may be apprehended in a foreign country and forced to bear arms against the US. And there is nothing the US can do, from a diplomatic stand point, to force that person’s release.
As Secretary Lansing’s letter clearly indicates, had the son been born before his father naturalized, Italy could require him to serve in the military (and bear arms against the US). And there would have been nothing the US could do about it. This is a perfect example of why the US Commander In Chief should never have possessed dual allegiance. Such a state of affairs is completely unnatural to allegiance and to the oath of office.
In conclusion, I shall reiterate that the US State Department has “always” recognized dual allegiance and has “adopted” it under law. Furthermore, no such person should ever desire to be President, especially if that person is a Constitutional scholar.
Let me get this straight, wolfemanic...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:17am.
A congressman who was the principal architect of the 14th Amendment which doesn't even contain the phrase "natural born citizen" is to be deemed the controlling authority and 'go to' guy regarding the presidential eligibility requirements set forth in Article II of the US Constitution where the "natural born citizen" language is actually to be found and which Mr. Bingham had absolutely no role in drafting.
Get outta town.
Jer
BTW...John Bingham was alive and kicking when Chester Arthur--whose father was Irish and owed allegiance to said foreign sovereign nation--was a candidate for and later elected to the presidency in 1881. One would have thought Bingham would have been raising holy hell over the illlegitimacy of Mr. Arthur's candidacy. Evidently he was not quite "The Decider" of the issue after all.
You blow.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:27am.
When chewing your Yummy Chewy Chicle Sap. You blow to make a bubble.
Vet...Please tell wolfe
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:43am.
that wiki has a handy overview of cases and comments dealing with citizenship, including "natural born citizen" which has been addressed by the SC on several occasions--and whose justices are not bound by what may or may not be the views of Mr. Bingham on the subject. And the weight of authority is clearly in favor of a far more expansive interpretation of the' natural born citizen' language than wolfe and Bingham.would subscribe to.
Uncle Jer
Please tell me today is not going to be Felix & Oscar Part II.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:49am.
Ah, what the hell, go for it.
Or Siegfried and Roy? :-)
Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:11pm.
Or Siegfried and Roy? :-)
What?....You want me to
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 5:21pm.
piss off the Vet???!!
Not all of us libs are stupid.
Jer
That was a joke.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 9:41pm.
I was continuing my Yummy Chewy Chicle Sap analogy joke.
The Vet and Jer, What is
Submitted by Liberallies on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:53am.
The Vet and Jer,
What is going on with the Conservative movement? Why is the Birther thing becoming more popular? What are these people drinking?!
The Birther issue will NOT get one Republican elected to the White House. On the other hand, if this becomse a popular issue in the REpublican party for the 2012 election, I fear that we will lose.
1) This is a non-issue started by the Hillary campaign. If the Clintons could not find dirt on this on Obama, no one will! why? Because this is not an issue.
2) Obama's mom was a natural-born citizen at the time she gave birth to Obama, underage or not, she passed on her citizenship to Obama, thus Obama is a natural-born citizen, regardless of where he may have been born.
3) Obama can be defeated a million other ways other than the birther issue, which is a non-issue.
4) I am seeing in the Right the type of irrational, illogical, emotional behavior that was so prevelant on the Left during Bush's years. Left wingers, Far left and Center Left and even some Center Right came to hate Bush with such deep passion that they were willing to believe anything that painted Bush in a horrific light and as an illegitimate President. I fear this is also happening on the Right with Obama.
5) Obama is surely one, if not the worst President in American history (I know Jer, you will not agree), but the birther issue is not the way to defeat him.
Conservatives need to quickly move away from this issue. My goodness people, if Ann Coulter agrees that there is no issue there, I can assure you there is no issue there. Coulter would have grabbed on to this issue like a mad dog and never let it go. She is smart enough to know there is no issue with Obama's birth certificate.
I still think that Obama was
Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:13pm.
I still think that Obama was a clone from Area 51.
[And once again for those of you in Rio Linda, CA and Lutz, FL, that was satire.]
Liberallies...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 5:16pm.
I think it's still a tad premature to be determining Obama's ranking among all of the US Presidents.
And, of course, I do agree with you that the birther issue is no the way to defeat him. In fact, I think it will hurt the electoral chances of the GOP rather than help them.
Jer
Glad you brought him up,
Submitted by wolfemanic on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:11pm.
Glad you brought him up, Chester Arthur perpetrated a fraud as to his eligibility to be Vice President by spreading various lies about his parents’ heritage.
Chester Arthur was naturalized in New York State and became a United States citizen in August 1843.
Chester Arthur perpetrated a fraud as to his eligibility to be Vice President by spreading various lies about his parents’ heritage. President Arthur’s father, William Arthur, became a United States citizen in August 1843. But Chester Arthur was born in 1829. Therefore, he was a British Citizen by descent, and a dual citizen at birth, if not his whole life.
He wasn’t a “natural born citizen” and he knew it.
We’ve also uncovered many lies told by Chester Arthur to the press which kept this fact from public view when he ran for Vice President in 1880.
On August 16, 1880 Chester Arthur told the Brooklyn Eagle newspaper that at the time of his birth, his father was forty years old. Another blatant lie. His father would have been only thirty-three years old when Chester was born.
In that same article he lied that his father settled in Vermont and reiterated the lie that William came here at the age of eighteen.
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=Oli...
Chester Arthur’s lies came during his Vice Presidential campaign in 1880. His fraudulent attempt to obfuscate family history provides context and evidence that in 1880 it was recognized that having been born as a British citizen would make one ineligible to be President or VP.
Arthur lied about his mother’s time in Canada. He lied about his father’s time in Canada. He lied about his father’s age plus where and when he got off the boat from Ireland. By obscuring his parents’ personal history he curtailed the possibility that anybody might discover he was born many years before his father had naturalized.
His falsification of family history indicates he was aware of POTUS ineligibility.
Because Chester Arthur covered up his British citizenship, any precedent he might have set that the country has had a President born of an alien father is nullified completely as Chester Arthur was a usurper to the Presidency. He wouldn’t have been on the ticket if it was public knowledge. Nobody knew Arthur was a British subject because nobody looked in the right place for the truth.
Wolfemanic, do you mean to
Submitted by Liberallies on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 3:11pm.
Wolfemanic,
do you mean to tell us all that history books have lied and Chester Arthur was not born inside of the United States, in Fairfield, Vermont?
Drop this Wolf, drop the whole birther issue, it is a non-issue. Any sane Conservative knows this. Do you think that if Ann Coulter thought that there was an issue there she would have not picked up on it and hamer the Left with it?
There is NO Birth issue with Obama. Obama is a natural-born citizen no matter how many times the birthers claim this isn't so.
We can defeat Obama a million ways, the Birther issue, a non-issue, is NOT one of them.
I never said Chester was not
Submitted by wolfemanic on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 4:20pm.
I never said Chester was not born in the USA, this is about his father's citizenship status, as it is with Obama.
I agree Obama will never see the inside of the court room, even if they pass the 2012 birther laws in some states, but that does not mean he's natural born.
To do so accepts that a person born with a dual allegiance can be President which leaves the White House wide open for the potential children of despots who hate this nation, yet ironically at the same time Obama clearly demonstrates to us every day what happens when such a person is elected.
I too can't wait to see him out 2012, whatever device it takes.
Time to catch some bone fish in the flats, I got me a sweet spot.
Wolf, Is your stance that if
Submitted by Liberallies on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 5:11pm.
Wolf,
Is your stance that if parents, whose children are born int he USA, are not American citizens, the children are not natural-born citizens of the USA?
Honestly Wolf, I hate to say this, but you are clueless. I hold a Venezuelan Citizenship, a European Union Citizenship, my father is from Spain, and an American citizenship. My wife is a Mexican citizen in the process of obtaining her American citizenship. My children, who were both born inside the USA, by law, are considered natural-born citizens and for all intense and purposes can become President of the USA if they meet the other requirements besides the one they already have of natural-born citizenship.
I am a strong Conservative as anyone here can testify. When I say that Obama birth certificate issue is not an issue, I do not mean he will not see the inside of a court room, I mean that there is and never have been an issue with his birth certificate and his Right to become President of the USA.
We as Conservatives need to focus on the matters that will cause Americans to vote Conservative instead of concentrating on a matter that makes us look like wackos.
wolfemanic...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 6:30pm.
There are [and were at the time of his candidacy] two known and salient facts regarding Arthur's background. He was born in 1829 and his father did not become a naturalized American citizen until 1843. According to your theory--and arguably Bingham's theory by extension--regarding presidential eligibility, Arthur was not born to parents who were, at the time of his birth, citizens of the United States and thus he was not a "natural born citizen". Consequently, Chester Arthur was Constitutionally ineligible for either the vice-presidency or presidency.
Isn't it odd that that issue seems not to have been pursued at all, even though the expert on the subject--and the intellectual force behind the theory--Mr. Bingham, as well as countless others, should have been well aware of that little citizenship glitch involving Arthur's father and crying foul. But, instead, the entire focus of those contesting his eligibility was on the son's possible Canadian birth rather than on the father's loyalty to a foreign state at the time of Arthur's birth.
It appears to me your reliance on Bingham has only strengthened the case for Obama rather than undermined it. If he was born in Hawaii, the game is over for the birthers. If he was born in Kenya, the game is over for Obama. The dual citizenship/natural born citizen issue makes for some interesting conversation, but it will be of no consequence to the status of the current president unless the Supreme Court were to render a definitive and adverse ruling within the very near future.
Jer
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 4:28pm.
My point was in response to your claim 'an amendment would be needed to clean up the mess.' It would be nice if Obama would show the same amount of cooperation that McCain did and provide his long form birth certificate, or that similar Senate hearing to prove and declare him eligible be held. You lucked out with your son's birth certificate, I played well before all the age controversies and had to provide it at least once.
Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 5:25pm.
Okay..I understand your point and your concerns.
I'll check with my wife about LL b/c. I don't remember it being an issue, but it may be that she took care of it.
Jer
Jer, I had
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:15am.
two sons who played LL. I had to furnish the long form BC for both of them, and that was long before any LL began importing ringers.
I also had to furnish the registered, long form BC for both of them to take driver's training, and to enroll in a public school.
And, each had to furnish a long form BC, when one enlisted in the USMC, and the other when he joined the Sheriff's Department.
So, what's the problem?
UpNorth...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:48am.
I know Denny Crane was issued IDENTICAL b/cs for his two children born in Hawaii with the one issued to Obama four years ago. Denny posted months ago that he had never encountered a problem with the use of those documents.
So, what is your explanation? Did you attempt to present "short form" certificates for your sons which were rejected?
Jer
Yeah, who'd
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 9:59pm.
have thought that the secretary of the Little League my boys played in, was more demanding than the Secretaries of State of the 57 states?
They wouldn't accept the short forms, nor would the public school system my boys attended.
There was no hearing for Senator McCain.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:50am.
There was a simple resolution voted on for Senator McCain and that was it.
Yes. President Obama got his mention too in a S.R.
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 5:41pm.
Lol! Check if you like, it's not a big deal, just an observation that the President has never shown his. If I were a liberal I'd be pissed if my President hadn't answered questions concerning his eligibility and that no one seems to think it's a big deal. Then again, if I were a liberal, I wouldn't get too worked up about holding to that dumb, old, outdated Constitution of ours.
Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 5:53pm.
Can you understand that he might be just a tad cynical and exasperated when in response to the doubters he sought and obtained the certified document which is issued by the Dept. of Health, and it is immediately attacked as a photoshopped fraud with no seal, etc. He authorizes an independndent inspection and verification of his original records, but that still doesn't satisfy the naysayers.
I think he has concluded, justifiably, that there will be no satisfying those who believe he is some sort of Manchurian candidate--a Kenyan Muslim communist and the spawn of Frank Davis.
Jer
Oh I get it.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:53am.
Kinda like how a birther named Djinn1975 keeps moving from one aspect to another of the birther conspiracy theories as you keep shooting one aspect of another down? Or circles back to an aspect you already shot down and acts as though he has some fresh new data on that aspect?
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 6:13pm.
I care about two things and two things only, the long form birth certificate and the SCOTUS's interpretation of the dual citizen issue.
I'm all about SOME cynicism, but at some point, because I enjoy presenting smashing evidence and pounding arguers into submission, I would provide the ONLY acceptable document, the long form birth certificate. It's not as if it's going to be provided to the media, or publicly posted.
It's a simple matter of getting Reid, Boehner, and the SCOTUS, and a document analyst from the FBI together to look at it, simple. All three branches represented to observe an authenticated document. The COLB that he provided is a fake, the information contained therein, who's to say? Consider that it is computer generated, as far as I know computers weren't around in '61, COLB's were hand written. Several hand written examples have been recently attained and provided by individuals born AFTER BO.
And Hawaii issues COLB's to people that are known to have not been born there. Hence the absence of attending physician, hospital, and other critical info present on the long form.
Besides believing in and exhibiting extreme rigidity to the Constitution, I'm a reasonable skeptic at heart. If I have a question or don't believe you all you have to do is prove you're contention and my skepticism and question will disappear.
Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 6:48pm.
Are you saying the COLB is fake?
Also, apparently you have overlooked the fact it was generated in 2007. I'm fairly certain even Hawaii had computers by then.
Jer
I meant to add--and with this I gotta sign out--I would like to see whoever next interviews Obama, or at his next news conference, the following question(s) put directly to him: Do you understand there is a long-form b/c on file, etc.? Will you agree to release it? If not, why not?
I don't care about the long form birth certificate.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 1:58am.
I am now writing to every member of Congress and the President urging them to ignore the long form birth certificate. I am doing this to nullify anything Djinn1975 has done. Why am I doing this?
BECAUSE HE WON'T SHUT UP.
Too bad. So sad. Looks like the man will make the full 48 months now. AND IT IS YOUR FAULT Djinn1975. The blame lies squarely on your shoulders.
Jer
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 7:27pm.
Without a doubt the COLB is fake. I'm not saying the info is, but without a doubt the document is. Like I said, I've seen at least two other COLB's that two separate Hawaiian residents recently requested and recieved, there are basically photocopies of the hand written originals. Why is BO's computer generated?
I would die to hear his response to that question. I'm sure it would be something like, 'We've already provided documentation....blah...blah.
Sorry Djinn...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 11:59pm.
Your credibility just took a hit. No way is the COLB a fake. I have read too many accounts of Hawaiian natives who each received a document identical in form to the one released by Obama. In fact, there is a an NB poster--who absolutely detests Obama--whose children were born in Hawaii and received the same type of COLBs from the State as did Obama.
Jer
Whoops.
Submitted by The Vet on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:00am.
Didn't the Djinn1975 weirdo want to see the COLB. Now, he claims it is fake. Just like he would do if the President were to whip one out tomorrow. Conspireacy theorists can never be satisfied. THERE IS ALWAYS ONE MORE HOOP TO JUMP THROUGH.
She either read about how she
Submitted by amyshulk on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 8:47pm.
She either read about how she sounds {screeching harpy} or someone told her - she's not so strident, yet still all huffy with her "EXCUSE ME's" I'd suppose if I agreed with her, I'd consider her a stalwart, but she just annoys the crap outta me!!!
Ronald Reagan
The water boys
Submitted by Redrowan2000 on Mon, 04/18/2011 - 9:33pm.
These boys carry more water for Obama than Bobby Boucher Jr.
They won't be convinced unless Obama makes a confession on live TV and then They'll be making excuses for him. If there is no truth to this then let it go. But why has white house counsel so adamantly stonewalled this? Why is there a private law firm zealously fighting these questions?
The truth will come out eventually. Maybe Assange will dig it up. Then the left will be calling for his crucifixion and smearing him rather than defending him as in the past. Speculative ? You bet, Makes this country great and I speculate that Hussein will go away for good in 2012 along with his socialist and marxist cronies.
With his new poll ratings why would a smart politician even leave this door open for speculation? To drive the right crazy? I don't think so. I don't have dates and time and who said what
but as someone once said : "where theres smoke theres fire."
In the end he'll be a pathetic one termer like Jimmy Carter and he''ll be hawking his memoirs and doing Bill Maher's show. Remember hope and change. The man doesn't know the meaning of the word transparency.
"Don't let the bastards grind you down."
Jer and Vet
Submitted by Djinn1975 on Tue, 04/19/2011 - 2:09pm.
Jer
It's all about the timing. I'm interested in the COLB's of those born +or- 5 years around 61. It seems that they would indeed be copies of hand written.
Vet
I've seen the COLB. It's a common generalization that has been pounded via the MSM, COLB is not the long form birth certificate. I want to see the long form birth certificate, then my weirdo conspiracy will be put to rest, but thanks for playing.