Newsweek's Evan Thomas Takes on Mark Shields, Nina Totenberg and the New York Times
For the fourth time in the last five weeks Evan Thomas has taken a political position quite contrary to the other liberal panelists on PBS's "Inside Washington."
In Friday's installment, Newsweek's assistant managing editor not only took on regulars Mark Shields and Nina Totenberg but also ridiculed the New York Times (video follows with transcript and commentary):
GORDON PETERSON, HOST: There is a page one story in the New York Times about a 30-year-old high school teacher, science teacher in Madison, Wisconsin. Name is Erin Parker. She makes $36,000 a year. She owes $26,000 in student loans. She doesn’t have a car, she can’t afford one. She wants to keep teaching so she’s going to leave Wisconsin, move to Colorado, move in with her parents. Is Erin Parker the problem?
EVAN THOMAS, NEWSWEEK: This is a fascinating case - the liberal New York Times strikes back. I’ve been waiting for this, because we’ve been dumping on, I’ve been dumping on the teachers' unions for a long time. There’s been all this momentum, all the teachers’ unions are terrible. And at the Times, which is after all a liberal newspaper, they found the perfect test case to fight back. This, appealing, she is nice looking, she takes care of little kids, she’s got big student loans, and she has to leave the state.
NINA TOTENBERG, NPR: And she is not that atypical.
THOMAS: The empire strikes back. It was just such an interesting PR.
PETERSON: But, but, but, but what about her? And what about the kids she teaches?
TOTENBERG: Listen…
THOMAS: Well, it’s a phony exercise because the teachers’ union…
TOTENBERG: It is not a phony exercise.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: She’s doing it for the kids. Give me a break.
TOTENBERG: It is not a phony exercise.
KRAUTHAMMER: How naïve can you be?
THOMAS: Whoa, whoa, whoa. The statistics do not lie. In every state or city you go to, you ask what percentage of teachers are let go for cause. It is always point, zero or 0.01 percent. It’s impossible to get fired under these union contracts. That’s what’s got to change. That’s the real issue here.
PETERSON: Mark?
MARK SHIELDS: As perhaps one of the few members of this panel who is a graduate of public schools, I challenge anybody to say what teacher most inspired them in their entire educational career. And almost invariably it was a teacher who taught for 20 years. It was a long serving teacher…
TOTENBERG: Right.
SHIELDS…who had a very special connection…
TOTENBERG: Right.
SHIELDS: … and very special gift.
THOMAS: That’s really sweet, but all the data show there’s no linkage between seniority.
SHIELDS: Is it somehow better than Evan’s hierarchy of values that these people would become investment bankers, hedge fund managers? That’s the way to pay off your student loans. They ought to be forgiven their student loans for teaching. That’s what they ought to do.
TOTENBERG: Can I just say something?
THOMAS: I agree with that, but this idea that if they’re an older teacher…
TOTENBERG: Hello?
THOMAS: …they’re better is just not statistically proven.
SHIELDS: Then older teachers are bad?
THOMAS: No, not that, but there’s no, there’s no, there is absolutely no equation correlation between seniority and quality teaching. None.
For those that missed it, this was the Times article they were talking about:
The jabs Erin Parker has heard about her job have stunned her. Oh you pathetic teachers, read the online comments and placards of counterdemonstrators. You are glorified baby sitters who leave work at 3 p.m. You deserve minimum wage.
“You feel punched in the stomach,” said Ms. Parker, a high school science teacher in Madison, Wis., where public employees’ two-week occupation of the State Capitol has stalled but not deterred the governor’s plan to try to strip them of bargaining rights.
Ms. Parker, a second-year teacher making $36,000, fears that under the proposed legislation class sizes would rise and higher contributions to her benefits would knock her out of the middle class.
“I love teaching, but I have $26,000 of student debt,” she said. “I’m 30 years old, and I can’t save up enough for a down payment” for a house. Nor does she own a car. She is making plans to move to Colorado, where she could afford to keep teaching by living with her parents.
Around the country, many teachers see demands to cut their income, benefits and say in how schools are run through collective bargaining as attacks not just on their livelihoods, but on their value to society.
As Thomas amazingly noted, this was a predictable tug at the heartstrings by the Times to depict teachers as suddenly being the unjustified scapegoats of all the rage against public employee unions.
Missing in the discussion was what Politifact has uncovered concerning Wisconsin's teachers, namely that across the state, their average total compensation when benefits are included is almost $75,000 per year. In Milwaukee, that figure is over $100,000.
Not bad for less than nine months work. And, the benefits these folks get are almost second to none.
My mother was a public school teacher. She retired after only 25 years at the age of 58.
In what private sector job can you accomplish that today?
The point is that what the Times, Shields, Totenberg, and their ilk don't get is that with the state of the current economy and most people upside down in their mortgages, the vast majority of Americans are feeling that their tax dollars are supporting a public employee sector with far better total compensation than they have.
The baby boomers right now are wondering if they'll ever be able to retire. Yet, government workers from state to state not only don't have that concern, but also have far better job security.
And, as Thomas accurately noted, as it pertains to teachers, they get to keep their jobs and their fabulous benefits packages regardless of how they perform.
I'm not sure which is more surprising - that Thomas gets this or that Shields and Totenberg never will.
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Comments
"what percentage...let go for cause. It is always 0.01"
Submitted by PJRyan on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 9:14pm.
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/04/maciver-institute/maciver-institute-says-average-annual-salary-and-b/
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/94449649.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/22/20040922-122847-5968r/?page=2#
I really don't want to bash teachers
Submitted by StarAZ on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 12:43pm.
My kid was in the DC schools until fifth grade--we had a couple of good teachers, a few horrible ones. They would not teach the multiplication tables--said it was arithmetic and they taught "math." I did a newsletter on math teaching for the parents so they could do it. I put my kid in parochial school in 5th grade, then in the AZ schools in Jr High. My problem with the schools is that these kids don't know anything anymore...I would not consider my kid educated. She has no curiosity despite the computer, and the two paper newspapers that come here everyday. I read to her, etc...all that. She refused to go to college and now the study shows the colleges need to do a lot of remedial work on kids and they don't learn much. I am furious about the state of education. It's certainly not all on the teachers--this mess. But why does ANY state employee retire after 20 yrs or before 60...etc. Why would this woman want to buy a house--just rent, get shelter, houses are no longer investments. As for cars, Craigs--or the Auto Trader. Make do--this is now a make-do country! Where can she move where her job will be guaranteed? All that is OVER, people.
Pay
Submitted by Huapakechi on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 10:01pm.
Since the federal government has taken over the "publik eddykashun" , it has become an almost laughable truism that for every dollar added to funding the schools there will be a corresponding decrease in student achievment.
Hear 'em scream when new leadership has recognized that fact and begun to cut back on the waste? I'd almost bet that test scores start coming up.
Dear Colleague Dr. K on the case.
Submitted by drsamherman on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 10:29pm.
As usual, his assessments are 1000% on the mark. I may disagree with some of his other political observations, but he is always thorough and uncompromising. It is something that his fellow psychiatrists appreciate.
She can't afford a car....how
Submitted by WarEagle66 on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 10:46pm.
She can't afford a car....how about a nice used one. I see every day on yahoo's auto listing quality used cars for well under $10,000. Does she need a new car?
She can come to
Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:42pm.
St. John's, Michigan. Sundance advertises cars all the time, for around $230.00 down and the same amount for the monthly payment.
But, they aren't selling a Prius, so that probably knocks them out of the running. Climate Change, and all that.
What she means is
Submitted by ckc1227 on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 4:22pm.
"She can't afford a car....how about a nice used one."
What she means is a car isn't provided to her as part of her benefit package.
Plenty of people get by on $36,000 a year. Some of them more than get by. Some of them even have cars, lol.Totenberg's begging to be
Submitted by Miss_Me_Yet on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:09pm.
Totenberg's begging to be heard was priceless. She reminded me of poor little Oliver Twist, ' may I have some more please sir ', flailing her chicken wing of an arm and squawking for more talk time like that.
Liberals ... we can't live with them, they couldn't survive without us ...
Agreed
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 11:19am.
The IW panel never takes her seriously (nor should they), and she frequently struggles to inject her Beltway liberal thoughts.
Boo hoo for teachers.
Submitted by Radical1979 on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:41pm.
Personally I don't think $36,000 is that bad of a starting salary. Plus they know their pay is going to rise no matter what. I know of other college grads living at home at first to save money. If they are contributing to their parents household what's the problem? And maybe people need to think twice about the college they choose. When my daughter was thinking of going into education I said fine, but you have to go to a state teachers college because it makes the most financial sense.
The first year or two of teaching teacher's do put it in a lot of extra hours. After that it's no more than anyone else. My sister in law is in banking, she's often at work until 7 p.m. She just doesn't whine about it. She wants to keep her job and it's what she has to do.
TAKE THE TEST...
Submitted by JPTSO3 on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:44pm.
MUTLTISTATE TEST
1. Erin Parker makes $36,000 a year. She owes $26,000 in student loans and doesn’t own a car. She is moving back with her parents. Who is to blame for Erin’s predicament?
2. Starshine is a teacher and makes $86,000 a year. She doesn’t own a car (they kill the planet). If Starshine is tenured-yet a crappy teacher, how can she be terminated?
3. Abdula Shimiza is a tenured teacher and is terrible at his job. The statistical odd of him losing his license are:
4. Teacher Patrick James will be fired if he:
4. Teacher Patrick James needs a fix
Submitted by neutron on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 12:23am.
Number 4. "All of the above" should be "Any of the above."
Totenberg
Submitted by BobcatConservative on Sat, 03/05/2011 - 11:46pm.
That panel didn't let Totenberg speak a full sentence!
You have to wonder...
Submitted by KyWriter on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 12:03am.
...if some liberals are finally beginning to see the light. I give Thomas credit for understanding that a social conscience has to be tempered by fiscal realities. Shields and Totenberg, pompous asses that they are, would never admit they were wrong about anything. The discussion very much resembled a schoolyard pickup ballgame where the weak kid was never given the ball; in this case it was an intellectual exercise and Totenberg, given her inability to contribute anything rational, was shut out. Classic.
Let's do the math
Submitted by neutron on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 12:17am.
First, some facts gleaned from the NYTymez story: 30-year-old high school science teacher, Ms. Erin Parker, in Madison, Wisconsin, is a second-year teacher making $36,000/year.
Next, "[Politifact] uncovered [that] Wisconsin's teachers... average total compensation when benefits are included is almost $75,000 per year. In Milwaukee, that figure is over $100,000."
So, if Ms. Parker is at $36,000/year, just how many other teachers at a higher salary does it take to change the 2nd year low pay to that AVERAGE of $75K or $100K?
You try it! It takes a huge number of top ones to raise the low ones. Think of taking a long car trip. Your average speed is shockingly low, because you spent a few minutes a couple of times in a restroom while gassing up. Those few minutes at no speed killed your average speed, despite how you drove most of the time over the speed limit.
So, for all the poor picked-on Ms Parkers, there are a huge number of FAT-CATS on the public UNION gravy train that CANNOT be laid off before all the low seniority people are fired.
Welcome to either the liberal confiscatory tax regime, or to conservative public union busting.
BTW, Ms parker has "the children" to cling to to try to keep her job. How about the folks working in the state's motor vehicle department? Are they "doing it for the automobiles"?
Or maybe the huge number of folks sucking up salary/benefits working for the many other state agencies?
How come in my home state of Maryland, the state is the largest employer, with more employees than Baltimore-based Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems, which is 1/6 of the 250,000+ Northrop Grumman Corp ???
The president had it right when the abbreviation of his new plan for America was WTF!
Sob Stories
Submitted by truckinmann on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 6:51am.
I want a sob story written about me too. I've worked for the same company for 18 years and make less than $50,000 a year. I pay over $4,000 of that for my health insurance premiums, and have ridiculously high co pays for Dr visits and prescription drugs. I have to contribute money to my 401k to get the company to match 50 cents on the dollar and they will only match up to 3% of my pay. I have to buy gasoline between $3.00 and $4.00 a gallon and drive 50 miles a day in my car. This uses 2 gallons a day (about $35.00 a week) I usually have to work about 10 hours a night, sometimes more, rarely less. My wife is disabled and I have two different kinds of arthritis, and diabetes. I also have around $100,000 in debt. (not a low rate student loan either!)
The thing is, I'm grateful to have a job at all. This teacher is just starting her career in her late twenties. I had been working for 15 years when I reached 30 years of age. When she's complaining about how little she's making I don't feel sorry for her. She's only working 9 or 10 months a year. She will get raises being in a government job, and she's still young and I assume healthy. I'd say she has much to be thankful for.
My daughter is 25, still in college, and makes $14000
Submitted by TheHistorian on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 7:31am.
but she has a car, pays her own rent, etc. My daughter works two part time jobs and has a high-deductible health insurance. Yet a single teacher can't live on $36K, have no car, and make some loan paydown? Bet this little miss has insurance that let's her go to the doctor for free. Why doesn't she get a job during the 3 months she is off in the summer? Go get a night job somewhere.
She should understand that she made the decision to borrow the money, so she won't necessarily qualify for a house unless she gets a CRA loan. I'm not boo-hooing for her; sounds to me like she has a pretty good life if she can manage it.
Dennis Prager
My daughter graduates college
Submitted by motherbelt on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 8:06am.
My daughter graduates college in May, and she will be positively THRILLED if she can find a job that pays $36, 000 and gives her free health insurance!
And yes, she will have (although not $26,000) some student loans to pay off.
My daughter graduated from college 15 months ago . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 11:26am.
. . . and she's working part time. She'd love the full time job.
I'm gonna be really mean here!
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 8:10am.
Hey, Erin Parker, quit yer whining and get yourself a man! Fer cryin' out loud, you're 30 years old, Mom and Dad don't want to see you till you have a baby to show them! And when you get your man, don't forget to iron his shirt!
I feel your pain and I am a
Submitted by tvhall on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 1:27pm.
I feel your pain and I am a HS teacher. The problem is manifold. 1) Students from parents and cultures that don't value education. 2) Administrators that keep disruptive and criminal students in school even after the "nth"major offense. 3) State and Federal law makers trying to manage education by fiat (let it be written let it be done). 4) High livel administrators who haven't been in a class room in 25 years and have no idea what is going down on the campuses and classrooms. 5) Painfully young administrators on campus that still have their "humans are basically good" head up their asphalt (One out of 7 administrators are older than my eldest son). 6) Parents that abdicate raising their children to the school/teacher (Listen up this is the worst possible choice you could make - teachers are 40% newage and 90% sold out liberals with a mission to indoctrinate not educate), 7)Why teach when it pays the same to hand out worksheets? 8)The culture has totally degenerated and thus a suprising number of students think they can make a living after school by welfare/selling drugs/ prostitution/rap or rock/ and the ones who are willing to work football/baseball/....)
This is by no means an exhastive list. Had this great resession actually been a depression and the world refused to finance our asses out, after the riots and civil war, maybe we could have taught our kids "If a person will not work then he will not eat." (You look up the reference.)
As it is we are in deep shit, I don't see enough talent and work ethic in the generation I teach to continue. Being, or rather staying #1 requires work and I don't see the willingness or desire!.
Hard work may pay off some day but indolence pays immediately!
tvhall---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 9:33pm.
Reading your post provides a good example why it is a mistake to lump all in one when shooting broadsides at our educational mess. You make sense, but then, you are a conservative. :o) Hang in there.