Bill Maher Smacks Down Tavis Smiley: 'When You Tolerate Intolerance You're Not Really Being A Liberal'
Bill Maher and Tavis Smiley got into a heated debate Friday about the difference between the treatment of women in America versus in Muslim countries.
When Smiley continually asserted on HBO's "Real Time" that women are maltreated here, Maher said, "It's such bulls--t," and eventually ended the discussion by scolding the PBS host, "When you tolerate intolerance, you’re not really being a liberal” (video follows with partial transcript and commentary):
BILL MAHER: I think it’s fair to say Muslim men have a bad attitude about women in general, and I would just like to say to them that you’re never going to have this revolution happen unless there is also a sexual revolution that goes with it.
Smiley at that point shook his head leading Maher to ask, “Really, Tavis? Muslim men don’t have a problem with women?”
SMILEY: No, I’m not going to argue that.
MAHER: Good.
SMILEY: Let me say up front, I agree with you.
MAHER: I was going to cut your head off.
SMILEY: No, no, no. Better my head than what Kevin. I was going to say that first of all, obviously what happened to Lara Logan is reprehensible, horrific, we can’t find a language to describe what happened to her. But having said that, if our democracy, Bill, if, if, if our readiness for democracy in this country is based upon, determined by, demonstrated by our respect for women, then we ain’t ready for democracy…
MAHER: That is a false equivalence.
SMILEY: No, no, no, no, no.
MAHER: Please.
SMILEY: Absolutely not.
MAHER: Are you serious? You think this country, the men in this country have an attitude that even comes close to…
SMILEY: I’m suggesting to you if you think that the way we treat women in this country, with patriarchy still alive and well, sexism still alive and well, is determinative or demonstrative of how well our democracy runs, I think you don’t understand how maltreated women are still in this society. That’s all I’m saying.
MAHER: What I’m saying is you have no perspective. You have no perspective.
SMILEY: I’m saying you have no perspective.
MAHER: No. Go ahead.
MICHELLE CARUSO-CABRERA, CNBC: I was just, if you look at the history of the United States I would say that actually democracy leads to better attitudes toward women because when the United States was founded of course, women couldn’t vote, African-Americans couldn’t vote, and we got there eventually. So, I think you’ve got it reversed.
MAHER: No I don’t. 19 of 22 Arab countries, women cannot vote. In Egypt, women if you want to divorce your husband you have to go to court. If a man wants to divorce his wife if he just has to say that, what they call the triple telac (?) or something, I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee. That must happen like on the first fight. It must be so…
KEVIN SMITH, FILMMAKER: I’ve been trying that twelve years of marriage. Doesn’t work. Don’t work.
MAHER: In Saudi Arabia, women cannot drive a car, sail a boat, fly a plane, which is why their tampon ads are just horseback riding.
[ Laughter ]
A bit later, Smiley fine-tuned his point, "I don’t disagree with the fact that they got a long way to go. What I’m trying to suggest to you is that when we have these conversations about how they treat women, as if somehow we treat women better in this country, it demonizes Muslims."
Maher vehemently disagreed stating, "It’s not demonizing. That’s saying I’m prejudiced. I’m saying I’m not prejudiced. That’s pre-judging. I’m not pre-judging, I’m judging. I’m judging. They’re worse. What’s wrong with just saying that? You’re a cultural relativist. It’s not relative."
After the discussion was interrupted by a heckler in the audience who ended up being removed from the studio, Smiley actually said, “It might surprise us to go into our papers in this country every day and to see stories just like this of how women are maltreated in this country every single day.”
Maher countered, “It’s such bulls—t. I mean, in this country, we treat women badly because they don’t get equal pay, or someone calls you sugar tits, or something like that. I don’t think it’s comparable to cutting their heads off, not letting them drive, not letting them work.”
As the debate continued, Smiley pompously asserted, “I would rather have us stop acting like that we know the answers to everything, that we’re always right, that our way is always better, that we don’t make mistakes.”
“We don’t know the answers to everything,” replied Maher, “But I do know we treat women better.”
The discussion ended with Maher scolding Smiley, “When you tolerate intolerance, you’re not really being a liberal.”
Although a delicious smack down, it was also rather ironic, for tolerating intolerance is the basis of liberalism, and Maher epitomizes it virtually every time he opens his mouth.
He may have been on the right side of this argument, but if a conservative had taken his position, it seems a metaphysical certitude Maher would have been saying virtually the same things Smiley was.
Makes you wonder if Maher was just playing devil's advocate for the entertainment value.
We'll know the next time he points accusatory fingers at Americans to support Muslims.
Stay tuned.
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Comments
Tavis Smiley Elevates Bill Maher
Submitted by Boil It Down on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 11:50am.
It's amazing that anyone could make Bill Maher look like the smartest one in the room. He should only invite liberal loons on his show to make him look like the intellectual he always yearns to be, but just can't imitate.
That's
Submitted by Nick Shaw on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 10:10pm.
not saying much Boil. A potted plant would still be the smartest thing in the room with Tavis there. Seriously though, Islam has had 1300 years to give women rights and America about 135 to 235 depending how you measure it. Is there really any comparison? I have to admit, I agree if a conservative were on the panel Maher would be singing a different tune.
I can't believe...
Submitted by Tuari on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 11:49am.
I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Maher...
Reason 8,247 that PBS should be defunded.
Dittto!
Submitted by Newsbubba on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:48pm.
Every now and then even a blind donkey-face finds a grain of sense.
Bubba, you gotta remember
Submitted by killa37 on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:55pm.
Bubba, you gotta remember that Donkeyface hangs around the Playboy Mansion a lot - how else would he get any chicks??? So at least he's got some kind of positive attitude towards them.................other than that, there two dorks arguing about anything would be like two clowns in the circus arguing about make-up or costumes.
The underlying reality here
Submitted by sherlock1 on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 11:52am.
The underlying reality here is that liberals cannot say anything good, even in contrast to something they would regard as evil were they forced to endure it, about western values. Or more specifically, the European-derived flavor, and most specifically of all, American. It is anathema to them, because they have been taught that it is a mark of intellectualism to revere the other and revile their own, without judgement. Simplistic lessons they learn well, and they hang onto them desparately. You might say they cling to their religion of self-loathing.
All that's another way of saying that in any real-world situation where cool-headed judgement concerning the national interest is required, and especially in terms of providing for our security, they are so conflicted as to be not only useless, but dangerous.
See Obama, Barack, Administration of.
sherlock1...
Submitted by iveseenitall on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:00pm.
Hear! Hear! Well said.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal" (progressive)
sherlock1 - great explantion
Submitted by Boil It Down on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:51pm.
You've given us some clarity of thought on the liberal psyche. Their terror in accepting anything that contradicts that original "simplistic lesson" bars them from further learning and advancement into wisdom. The faulty premises they first embrace are too sacred to tolerate blasphemy, so they demand an immediate attack rather than reasoned examination.
Typical liberals, they can't
Submitted by bkeyser on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:00pm.
Typical liberals, they can't separate politics from religion. They can't seem to understand that people can have religious beliefs that override their desire for progressive -because that's all there is for libs- politics.
I have another real problem with the way these Arab uprisings are being described -on both sides of the aisle- as democratic or a desire for democracy. I don't foresee that. I think we're looking at a rise of theocracy to the extreme. I think that the US, particularly State and the White House, has foolishly helped to create this condition by calling for the removal of Mubarak from Egypt.
Under what conditions will Egypt, a 90+% Muslim country where treatment of women as possessions is displayed as openly as anywhere else on earth, voluntarily suspend their beliefs to become a democracy? Even one like in Iraq? It's not going to happen. No one- not even the illustrious O could create enough jobs to employ men AND women in Egypt. There just aren't the resources available. So "freeing" women only exacerbates the economic conditions which led -in part- to the uprising.
So, contrary to all the democracy talk, I'm seeing a dozen Irans springing up, all suddenly quite friendly with Iran. Iraq doesn't stand a chance at success amidst that political climate. And Helen Thomas will likely get her wish.
Not to say this wouldn't have happened anyway, but our support for the uneducated and ill-prepared Arab street in Egypt created a power vacuum and emboldened an entire region of uneducated and ill-prepared die-hard Islamics to challenge authority.
While we have boots on the ground in the region. A region that generally despises an American presence.
At the same time we're denigrating Israel for building houses on their land.
Either this was part of the plan to empower the Arab world and it's inherent hatred for America, or this Administration will headline future Arab language broadcasts of the History Channel's Greatest Blunders series.
Once again, amateur hour.
That is what happens when you hire the White House Cookie Baker
Submitted by TheHistorian on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:19pm.
to become the Secretary of State. You get incoherent foreign policy.
Of course, incoherent government is what you get when you hire a Chicago community organizer as President.
I still think this is the only President that can redeem the reputation of the Jimmah Carter Presidency as the worst since Roosevelt died.
Dennis Prager
It is rather sad
Submitted by shawn. on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 1:31pm.
It is rather sad
A broken (analog) clock is correct once a day
Submitted by ClericalGal on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:14pm.
I too, find myself agreeing with Maher on this one. Smiley's views of Islam are not surprising if you remember this clip from his own show with Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
http://eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=hd6UprDk4z
Maher actually thought the US did something better?
Submitted by TheHistorian on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:15pm.
And he smacked down a fellow liberal for saying nasty things about the religion of peace? He must have not gotten his prunes.
Dennis Prager
Well, yes, but . . .
Submitted by Galvanic on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 2:20pm.
Maher will defend the status of women in the US because he sees it as the product of progressivism. That makes it easy for him to suggest that Smiley -- anchored in cultural relativism -- isn't a "liberal."
But Maher will also be the loudest accusing conservatives and libertarians of seeking to undo all the progress women have made in American society.
The Smiley Schtick
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:22pm.
In addition to feeding the crocodile, Smiley fully intends to swing the door wide open and shout "allahu akhbar!"
OMG
Submitted by zenman1661 on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:22pm.
Bill Maher actually sounds reasonable next to Tavis. No wonder Tavis won last year for saying one of the most idiotic statements.
Very rude and misogynistic
Submitted by StarAZ on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 12:34pm.
In Saudi Arabia, women cannot drive a car, sail a boat, fly a plane, which is why their tampon ads are just horseback riding.Doesn't Maher hang out with women who earn their living hanging out with him? He is so disdainful and disgusting about women--all religions. Come on, gals, aren't we through with this twit?
Apples and Oranges
Submitted by shawn. on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 1:30pm.
Two totally separate things. Women can vote, have a job and divorce their husbands. Sort of reminds me of a certian someone on this website that tries to compare tolerating free speech on music cds, but not liking people using profanity on this website.
→ Shawn
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 1:43pm.
Won't be long before the liberals are begging for the latest, greatest craze. . . Sharia Law.
Change is everywhere.
Sure hope not cool
Submitted by shawn. on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 1:48pm.
That is one thing I do not undertand about libs. Hollywood hates conservatives, yet these millionaire superstars will have to pay more taxes and lose more money if libs have their way and Sharia Law will certainly consitute a beheading for people like LIndsey Lohan or Kim Kardashian. It just makes no sense, but then again most liberals don't make sense.
They didn't even get to
Submitted by Thoreau on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 1:52pm.
They didn't even get to women's "rights" in court. They have 1/2 the weight of a muslim man. And non-muslims have no say in testimony at all.
Maher & The Smiley One
Submitted by RightRealDeal on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:06pm.
Did I just come off a three week bender? Haven't done one of them since before I was married.
It frightens me to agree with the stooge, Maher.
Back to the cheap whiskey, this cannot be true.
both are morons...
Submitted by humanzee on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:34pm.
Tavis is at least following the script. Maher is giving people mixed messages. On one hand he's been claiming nation building and interventionism is wrong and on the other he is "demonizing" the arabs/muslims.
Now he's spreading these stereotypes of Arab/Muslim men. Hasn't he heard from the WH? Islam is a religion of "peace." Loved how Tavis tried to bring Maher in line. It was unsaid but it basically was this... "Shut up, dumbass. We liberals are supposed to act like nothing is wrong with the muslim world. The majority of them are supposed to be cool. Remember? Religion of PEACE! Let's leave them alove! We need to convince everyone they are our friends by being laudatory of their culture.<nudge, nudge, wink, wink>"
Anyhow.. Tavis was sucking up to the Feminazis that would like to convince women that western men are the root of all evil. Women need preferential treatment for nature screwing them over. The species evolved as male dominated and they can't get over it. So sorry that humans didn't turn out like fig wasps...
Elite western men are handicapping their bethren with laws and regulations just to artificially level the playing field. Happy? Men are screwing themselves over to pacify women for goodness sake. Isn't that enough?
As for Maher... can democracy exist without a sexual revolution? Hell yes. It already did.
The muslims can have their limited representational governments.... we have a limited representational government too... it's called a REPUBLIC.
Yes it can work.
Yes it can succeed.
The question is... what is in our interest? Will their Caliphate screw us over down the line?
Are we going to wage war to free their women? Do we actually care if their women are dominated?
Ok, let's look at history
Submitted by CobraMan on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:58pm.
"...if you look at the history of the United States I would say that actually democracy leads to better attitudes toward women because when the United States was founded of course, women couldn’t vote, African-Americans couldn’t vote, and we got there eventually. So, I think you’ve got it reversed."
Ok, let's look at history. I mean, actually LOOK at history! In less that 200 years of American society, American culture, our progress has given women the right, the power, to own property, make their own decisions, vote, ect., even though we're NOT a democracy! (We're a Constitutional Republic, in case you've forgotten.) The same is true with other minorities, there are no exceptions. All that progress occurred even though there never was any national referendum, any national VOTE, on those issues. That progress occurred because our society itself changed. Our very attitudes of self-determination and individual liberty lead to those changes. Democracy had NOTHING to do with it.
Now, compare that to the middle east. They've have the same social systems, the same cultures for well over a THOUSAND years and what progress do they have to show for it? NONE! They've actually regressed after the fall of the Ottoman Empire! So, guess who's got it reversed?
Maher is right. Their democracy isn't going to improve anything.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
It's a sad day when Bill Maher is the voice of reason
Submitted by Free Stinker on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 2:56pm.
It's a sad day when Bill Maher is the voice of reason on any subject, but credit where credit is due. He's correct.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
ChickaBOOMer: Pan Arab
Submitted by StewartIII on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 3:09pm.
Pan Arab
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2011/02/pan-arab.html
Black men coined the
Submitted by Armymom on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 3:35pm.
Black men coined the phrase"Bitch Slap"! Black culture treats black females different than whites!
A moron babbling with an
Submitted by LAM SON 719 on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 6:58pm.
A moron babbling with an idiot and a buffoon agreeing.Thats all this was.
Maher is a hypocrite...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 8:54pm.
Although I agree with him here, he has no right to lecture anyone about tolerance, when he is one of the most hate-filled, intolerant people in the media (or anywhere else) that I've ever seen. Anyone who doesn't think like or agree with him, is a fool, a racist, stupid, the list goes on.
Maher and Smiley would do the world a HUGE favor if they both would just shut up.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
Maher and Smiley
Submitted by Truestar on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 6:58am.
It's disturbing for me to admit that I actually agree with the idiot Maher in this instance. What's even more disturbing is the idiocy of Tavis Smiley.
Maher has the demonstrated intellectual integrity of a worm, so Smiley's integrity is non-existent.
I agree with Prairie, the world would be a better place without two idiots yapping about women's rights regarding the Muslim religion-- or anything else.
9/11
Submitted by Ozconservative on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 9:05am.
9/11 didn't wake the libturds up to the true nature of Islam. Neither did the Bali bombings, nor the terrorist attacks in London or Madrid. Mumbai was just a "man-made disaster". The relentless attacks on Israel are called "Palestinian resistance". The countless beheadings, kidnappings, beatings and assasinations in the name of Allah are greeted with a yawn by the lame-stream media. If anything good can come of the brutal rape of Lara Logan then maybe the libturds will wake up and see that Islam is this generations Nazism.....an evil Satanic cult that will stop at nothing to destroy everything that is not like them. Maybe they will wake up......but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
While I agree this is
Submitted by amyshulk on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 10:25am.
While I agree this is probably just the cognitive dissonance ringing too loudly in Bill's head, and the only way to get it to stop was to speak the truth, unless he sheds the liberal dogma I won't go back to watching him!
Ronald Reagan
This foul mouthed cull..............
Submitted by Patriot II on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 11:29am.
attack dog maher is going to lecture someone else on intolerance" Geez, I have heard everything!!
The only problem is that Bill
Submitted by redfish on Sun, 02/20/2011 - 11:35am.
The only problem is that Bill Maher would say the same thing about conservatives in the US who oppose things like gay marriage; he'd say they support another type of intolerance that you can't tolerate.
OF course thats not really intolerant, in my view, but Maher would think it is. So how would you go about asking for respect from him if you have that position?