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Huffington Post Blogger Charged With Incest

By Noel Sheppard | December 10, 2010 | 13:13

A  A
Noel Sheppard's picture

A Columbia University political science professor that blogs at the Huffington Post was charged Thursday with having a sexual relationship with his 24 year old daughter.

As the Columbia Spectator reported:

[David Epstein] was arrested Wednesday morning and charged with one count of incest in the third degree at an arraignment hearing on Thursday. According to police, the relationship appears to have been consensual.

Epstein declined to comment when reached on his cell phone Thursday evening.

His wife, Sharyn O’Halloran, chair of the executive committee of the University Senate and a tenured professor, also declined to comment when reached by phone.

The New York Daily News reports, "Epstein, who specializes in American politics and voting rights, has taught at Harvard and Stanford and often is quoted by news organizations."

Epstein was not a frequent contributor to the Huffington Post, but what he did write was quite liberal.

His September 2009 "The President's Health Care Speech: Elevating the Terms of the Debate" was practically a love letter to President Obama, Barney Frank Frank, and MSNBC's Rachel Maddow with a dash of Bush Derangement Syndrome:

Just listen to these two clips back to back; the first is the ending section of Obama's speech last night, and the second is Rachel Maddow interviewing Barney Frank about the speech and events surrounding it.

How long has it been in this country since we were able to have a president make a major speech with actual historical themes in it, analyzing today's issues in the light of long-running discussions in the American political and intellectual tradition? And then have a major talk-show anchor and an elected representative be able to not only pick out the major themes of the speech ("only timidity passes for wisdom"), but discuss them and elaborate on them as well?

Makes you want to reach for the airsickness bag, doesn't it?

But even better, his July 2009 "Palin Proves Voters Were Right in 2008" indicates that along with having very bad judgment involving sexual partners, this political science professor doesn't have a very strong grasp of politics:

President Obama was elected because he was smart, good on policy, and would bring hope to a dispirited country. He's performed exactly as advertised, with the single exception of his banking policy, which has been far more timid than circumstances warrant. But on the stimulus plan, the budget plan, his attack on health care, the environment and other issues, Obama has been forthright, substantive, and probably more politically savvy than would have been anticipated. [....]

Democrats gained seats in the House and (now, thanks to Biden) a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate because they were seen as more willing and able to work seriously on the problems facing the country. Here again the public was right -- the Democrats are making tough policy choices and even playing their role as a check on the administration, especially in economic and financial policy, while the Republicans have become not just an ineffectual out-of-power party, but a parody of an ineffectual out-of-power party, spouting mean-sounding nonsense on major policy issues ("Government spending doesn't work!" "There is no such thing as global warming!" "Hunger is a good motivator!"), and taking hypocrisy in their personal lives to new levels of self-indulgent weirdness ("It wasn't just an affair, it was a love story!"). It's as if they're trying to get a head start on another 40 years in the wilderness.

That's some crystal ball this political science professor has, huh? Bear in mind this was written as Tea Partiers were storming town hall meetings across the country and Obama's polls were plummeting:

But Palin's decision disappointed a lot of her supporters and even casual observers (my 9-year old daughter, rather out-of-the-blue, said "I didn't think she was a quitter, or a resigner"). She may well end up happier this way; she can make money on her book deal, give lots of speeches, and maybe even found a populist-PAC, supporting Republican candidates whom she approves of and be a player within party politics. But she will never hold elected office again, and voters can rest a bit easier with that knowledge, and the knowledge that they chose wisely in all respects last year.

Well, Mr. Epstein, the voters that went to the polls five weeks ago apparently don't agree with your view of the world. 

This was particularly true in Pennsylvania, as Epstein in May 2009 told his readers that Arlen Specter's defection from the GOP was a winning move:

[G]iven that his erstwhile opponent Pat Toomey (whom Specter beat 51-49 in the 2004 primary) is now running unopposed and will probably get the nomination, Specter will indeed face off against Toomey again, but in the general election rather than the primary. And here, Spector seems right now to be odds-on favorite to retain his seat.

Specter of course lost his primary battle with Joe Sestak, and Toomey will be sworn in as Pennsylvania's junior senator next month.

One can only hope the students this man has been teaching all these years have been skeptical of his political forecasts.

About the Author

Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Click here to follow Noel Sheppard on Twitter.
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Comments

Save the children

Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:27pm.

Need I say 'What if this was a Republican?' I hope the authorities are looking into his relationship with his other children, their friends and aquaintances. Oh, and we know the left will defend this sickness.

Americans keeping their own earnings is a Civil Right! Demand your Civil Rights!
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I'm sure it wasn't "incest

Submitted by Reaver on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:41pm.

I'm sure it wasn't "incest incest".

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.” ~ William F. Buckley, Jr.
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That's right, Whoopi!

Submitted by almostacowboy on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:48pm.

Eggs Ackley.

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So,

Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:27pm.

is it okay to deride this guys sexual preference as not normal, or is incest, like homosexuality, off the table?

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Afterall, it was consensual . . .

Submitted by Galvanic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:31pm.

. . . what right does any government have in telling human beings whom they can and cannot love.  ;-)

Let's ask Representative Frank.

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Sick, sick, sick...

Submitted by jimbo297 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:02pm.

...the link to the original story gas a bunch of comments wondering why we should even care about incest.  Its a personal choice, a family matter, just a Freudian affair of pleasure.

This is the slippery slope gay marriage opponents warn about.

Next it will be:So what if our Muslim neighbor has 3 wives, all of them relatives through blood?  It's his life, his choice and part of his culture.

Libs just plain suck.

When does this guy get a slot on CNN (Client Nine Network)???

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All in the family

Submitted by Galvanic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:27pm.

I don't expect to see this story on the network evening news broadcasts.

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So he says:

Submitted by WhoIsJohnGalt on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:27pm.

(my 9-year old daughter, rather out-of-the-blue, said "I didn't think she was a quitter, or a resigner").

"That's right honey...very smart of you...and did I mention how fetching you look in that Little Mermaid outfit?  Why don't you come over here and sit on daddy's lap?"

 

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Sick

Submitted by C-townGiant on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:41pm.

Sick, sick, sick.

But accurate.

I wouldn't let this slime near my daughters, if they were of college age (and, thankfully, they are not).  I hope his wife and her lawyer absolutely rape this SOB in divorce court.

Of course, being liberals, they probably have an open marriage, not defined by traditional boundaries.

Like f***ing your daughter.

 

http://baseballwithasideofpolitics.blogspot.com/
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I read the comments

Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:31pm.

at Columbia Spectator.  Very understanding folk.  Just wondering if they tell jokes about "inbred hillbillies" or if that's just consensual love too?  I'm guessing that these are the same people that saw nothing wrong with Woody Allen.

President Obama is a Muslim (from his own lips), Kenyan (read it from his publicist) a homosexual (read it on a news magazine cover) and a Socialist (I'm alive and can see it for myself)
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Good point, Phil

Submitted by Galvanic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:47pm.

You're probably right.

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~Don't forget

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:45pm.

Incest only occurs among uneducated conservative southerners.

We just don't hear about it, cuz dey cover it up so well. Bein' dumb, an' all.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Progressive

Submitted by seven on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:45pm.

Progressives have rights.

 

His right to privacy, right to sex any kind anywhere.

Don't ask Don't tell

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One big "Eh"

Submitted by gopcongress on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:47pm.

I look at consensual adult incest in the same way I look at gay relationships. The thought of being in either repels me, but then my love of peanut butter on celery may repel others.

Obviously, there are family consequences to consider, but that should remain within the families themselves, or their professional assistance representatives (doctors, shrinks, whatnot).

Perhaps that's a Libertarian streak in me, but I find Epstein's positions on socialism far more rapacious and evil than his incestual actions, at least in the public context. If there is more to the incestual relationship than being reported (such as control or abuse issues), then that aspect becomes far more pertinent.

"The news and truth are not the same thing." -Walter Lippmann (1889-1974) FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER

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Exactly. Well said.

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:51pm.

Exactly. Well said.

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~Riiiight

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:05pm.

And if Palin were caught having sex with her adult son I'm sure you'd say the same thing.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I couldn't care less if Palin

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:41pm.

I couldn't care less if Palin or anyone else were screwing their adult son. As long as it's consensual, it's none of my business. It certainly isn't government's. And it doesn't affect my life one bit, nor does it affect yours.

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typical liberal bs*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:09pm.

.."it doesn't affect my life one bit"... The phrase "Not In My Back Yard" is used to insult and show hypocritical liberal beliefs regarding society.

Kool aid addict and blind obsessive self absorption..yep, that should qualify you for permanent govt. disability benefits.

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~Yeah, Satch

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:02pm.

It's allllll about you, isn't it?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Er, you did ask or speculate

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:20pm.

Er, you did ask or speculate what I would say. That's you trying to make it about me.

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~....

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 5:27pm.

"And it doesn't affect my life one bit" --Satchmo, on father/daughter incest  
Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Do Prog/Libs......

Submitted by almostacowboy on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:55pm.

Do Prog/Libs ever listen to the crap that comes OUT of their pie-hole?

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Father / daughter incestuous

Submitted by bassndude on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:49pm.

Father / daughter incestuous relationships are usually started by the father with the daughter while the girl is very young. Now this may well be consentual later on. But the fact of the matter is, the odds that this started while the girl was very young, are very high. It is a matter of her really not knowing any better. If she was raised this way, incest seems to be a normal act to her. After all, he is her father, and he would never do anything to her or with her that is wrong.

The man should be charged with rape of a minor and hauled off to prison. She should see a shrink. Its a shame that this guy has been allowed to twist this young ladies mind around to the point that incest is the norm in her life.

What of her kids? If she was this screwed up by her folks, how screwed up are her kids going to be?

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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Bassndude, I think you're

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:04am.

Bassndude, I think you're basically right.  I don't know the details about this specific family, but   I've never seen a father-daughter incest case that started in adulthood.  Moreover, even if the daughter was of legal age before the sexual relationship started, it would still be likely that the father was exploiting his position of authority and his daughter's feelings of trust -- hence, this would not be a "victimless crime." 

I also agree with Satchmo, that government should stay out of our bedrooms.  So, in the unlikely event that there's no child abuse here, I think the legal case should be dropped and the family referred to counseling. 

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No yutsnart. The charges

Submitted by bassndude on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:19am.

No yutsnart. The charges should not be dropped. The queistion here is how the law found out? This has been going on for sometime, I would bet a years wages, and someone turned in "daddy". So who was it? Boyfriend? The daughter? The Mother? Just how did law enforcement get involved?

Someone told. It is not a victimless crime. Even if it did not start untill the girl was 18. He still used his influence over her. He shold be referred to the electric chair.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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Electric chair, no.  All we

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:42am.

Electric chair, no. 

All we know is that he has been charged with incest, which appears to have been consensual, with his 24 year old daughter.  The other details you provide are all hypothetical.  We don't even know if he'll be found guilty.   If it turns out that there's no case for child abuse, why should the government step in?  Because incest is sacreligious?  Disgusting?  Bad for the gene pool?  Psychologically stressful?   And you expect government to be helpful with that?

 

 

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Homework assignment

Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 4:42pm.

Incest is not, by nature, consensual.

Homework assignment: name a society at any point in human history that has been as accepting of incest as you are. 

It doesn't matter how old the person is: relatives should not be engaging in sexual relations.  This is basic.  This is virtually a matter of instinct.  That you apparently are lacking that instinct means that you are a very sick individual. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Incest is not, by nature,

Submitted by Satchmo on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 4:57pm.

Incest is not, by nature, consensual.

That is simply not true. Rape is not, by nature, consensual, but this isn't a case of rape.

No one is accepting incest. No one is saying it's ok. The reach of government is what is being questioned. Can you understand that?

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More warped thinking

Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 6:44pm.

If the government, which reflects society's norms, mores, values, and standards, does not punish those who commit incest, what other enforcement mechanisms does society have?

Name one single society or government or civilization in human history, or in the present, that has the same permissive "Oh it isn't hurting me so it CAN'T be a big deal!" attitude towards incest that you do.

And it is extremely warped to think that the government has no business enforcing a standard of behavior that is essentially instinctive (sex with relatives is bad), yet at the exact same time, you think the government should give everyone allowance money for food and clothing.  Can YOU understand THAT?

(There's something about someone, whether he knows or cares or not, who is condoning incest, scolding and lecturing me which is only pegging my irony meter.)

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Incest is legal in France,

Submitted by yutsnark on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 9:48am.

Incest is legal in France, Russia, Brazil, Portugal, a bunch of other countries. 

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On this site

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:32am.

you will not get credit for pointing that out. It makes it only worse.

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You want credit?

Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:41am.

He won't get credit for just rattling off a list of countries without evidence. 

But he will get credit, as you will, for being very sick individuals who need to never be seen around children. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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My nephew would be disappointed

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:47am.

But hey, who cares what you think?

And great reading skills on your part!

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Evidence required

Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:47am.

Evidence?  Especially that weak "a bunch of other countries"...

Besides, most of those countries are Going Absolutely Nowhere.  France, for instance, so desperately needs taxpayers to fund their  Nanny State that I guess they want children by any means necessary, even if it means violating instinct.  (If true.)

And even if legal I would be interesting to  know about societal repurcussions.  This is something that, for good reason, has been traditionally prohibited by societies for thousands of years.

Amazing, isn't it?  Leftists love to joke about the South as a place where family tree lines intersect!  Yet here are a bunch of Leftists and a whacked out near-anarchist cheerfully backing incest! 

You are one sick individual.  If I had my way, you'd never be allowed to see children, much less have any in your custody. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Yuts those countries are

Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:50am.

Yuts those countries are refering to incest with a sibling,  Just as disgusting, but the balance of power int he relationship is not the same as a child/parent.

Proud member of the 53%!
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Wikipedia likes to disagree.

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 11:02am.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

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From your own link trog, When

Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:35pm.

From your own link trog, When incest involves an adult and a child it is considered to be a form of child sexual abuse, and is illegal in every developed country.

Proud member of the 53%!
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Radical1979

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:43pm.

The link was supposed to refute your claim, that 

"those countries are refering to incest with a sibling"

They are not.

 

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A 24-year old is not a child.

Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:52am.

A 24-year old is not a child.

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Completely and totally wrong

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:28am.

So the 24 year old in question was immaculately conceived?

My parents are always my parents, because for all eternity, they brought me about by copulating nine months before I was born.  Hence, then, now, and forever, they are my parents and I am their child.  Age DOES NOT MATTER. 

Why does that very simple concept trouble you so much, you sick freak?

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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This is almost too ridiculous

Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 10:15am.

This is almost too ridiculous to respond to. By your logic, no one on earth is an adult because we are all the children of our parents no matter how old we are. Language is complex; words often have more than one meaning. Child is one of those words.

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Satchmo,

Submitted by Agnostic on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:29pm.

Not to defend the 24 year old child comment though I've known much older that I found very childish but I believe the point that is trying to be made is a sentimental one beyond the actual definitions.  Your child, as an adult is more than your child as defined by the dictionary.  Your adult child is the culmination of shared events, emotions and biological ties that should, in an ordinary person, transend the actual physical age.

I could be wrong but that is my opinion.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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What did we tell you Butt Hurt Stupid Incestmo Troll.

Submitted by The Vet on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:35pm.

You are too stupid to use the by your logic route. You are too stupid to count to the number 2, By your logic is way to far above your intelligence level for you.

You are a feckless simpering dolt that should can't interact with adults in meatspace. That is why you attempt to ineract with adults here. But you suck just as bad on the intertubes. And you are too stupid to understand why in both cases. IT IS YOU.

Loser.

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Which "stupid" are you referring to, Vet?

Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:38pm.

There are many definitions, and English is a very tricky language.

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Stupid semantic arguments

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 2:19pm.

You whine that my post is too ridiculous to respond to, but you do anyway with a ridiculous post where you contradict yourself.

You have been jumping up and down throwing a tantrum all over the board saying that "A 24 year old is not a child!  A 24 year old is not a child!  A 24 year old is not a child!"  She may be a grown adult, but unless she was immaculately conceived, to two individuals out there, she is a child.  End of story. 

Imagine, if you will, the year 2510.  I'm going to take a guess and think it reasonable to assume that both my parents, my siblings, and I, will all have won the death pool before that year arrives.  Even five hundred years from now, long after we have all taken our dirt naps, I am a child.  Why?  Because two people - my parents - copulated nine months before my birth.  Hence, forever, and ever, and ever, I am a child.  We are all SOMEONE'S child. 

The fact that you are still stupidly fighting a semantic argument refuted by the science of biology only shows me that you are condoning and supportive of incest.  Which means you are one sick bastard who should either have his testicles removed or should be permanently locked up. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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FAIL

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:06am.

Well, if it's on Wikipedia, IT MUST BE TRUE!!!

You fail in research skills and source evaluation, trog.  Well done. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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You doubt it?

Submitted by troglodyt on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 4:52am.

Do you your own work then and refute it.

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STFU

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 9:47am.

I don't respond very well to complete strangers barking orders at me.  Especially when they are hate-filled arrogant assholes such as yourself.

You lose because you brough in such a crappy source that can be altered by anyone at any time.  (Hence I have refuted your crappy source.)  If I tried using Wikipedia in my everyday endeavors, I would be laughed out of academia.  You think I am going to look warmly upon using it as a source for anything?  Hell no. 

I suggest you learn what "source evaluation" is.  Quit blaming me for being a crappy, lazy researcher, and quit demanding I make up for YOUR shortcomings. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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NB=academia?

Submitted by troglodyt on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 11:21am.

"Especially when they are hate-filled arrogant assholes such as yourself."   Yeah right. Another projection, please.   If you want to evaluate that source I suggest you invite one of your relatives to France and screw him/her there. Then you go to the police and watch the disgust on their face while they let you walk.
  Have a nice day.
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It's not you little trollie. Not you at all. You is smarties.

Submitted by The Vet on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:36pm.

  Everyone else just fails to understand you. Hey, I know how you can win over Unsane. Tell him about your Fake German background. How you learned to speak Americanized English from watching 3 Stooges movies on your German TV in Schenectady, New York. Oops. Did I give away the lie? Sorry.

  Next time grab the Idiot to English translator when you want to talk to people that actually take time out of their day to learn things and expand their mind. Idiot.

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Idiot

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 2:26pm.

But you ARE a very hate-filled arrogant asshole.  You're a Socialist which requires you to be governed by extreme hatred and envy.  And your arrogance is betrayed in each and every post you have ever put on NB. 

And of course you demand I evaluate YOUR source by committing incest in one of your beloved Nanny States.  No, YOU PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE, so YOU will evaluate it.  And don't EVER bitch when you are called on YOUR lack of source evaluation.

Being an insulting, sick f**k must be MUCH easier than evaluating sources.  If I tried the crap you just pulled, my rotting corpse would impact the courtyard below in about 5 seconds. 

This tells me not one of your sources is to ever be trusted, and your credibility on this site is zero.

Go find whatever rock you crawled out from under and stay there.  And have fun molesting your relatives. 
 

 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Blah Blah Blah.

Submitted by troglodyt on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 2:30pm.

Something else you want to share? Perhaps together we'll reach the far right end of this page. 

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Warning Unsane.

Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 2:02am.

  This is a Last Word Troll as well as a Little Boy Liar. And it looks like he is once again at his old tricks of posting piffle to wear you down just to ensure he will have the last word.

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And I thought you were a man of principles

Submitted by troglodyt on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 6:47am.

and would, ideological affinity not withstanding, tell Unsane that his use of language was in violation of NB policies.

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blah blah blah

Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:17am.

last word, moving to the right blah blah blah
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finally

Submitted by troglodyt on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:56am.

someone is playing along.

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Parasite

Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:21pm.

That will be all, parasite. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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And I was so much looking forward for more.

Submitted by troglodyt on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 11:16am.

And again I'm disappointed.

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No, they're not just

Submitted by yutsnark on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:04pm.

No, they're not just referring to incest with a sibling.  Yes, it's just as disgusting.  No, it's not the government's job to keep us from being disgusting.

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Fundamental questions

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:08am.

Really?

Why do we bother having governments at all?

Why do we bother organizing ourselves into societies?

Maybe you need to just go to a very remote part of the planet where you can act like you were raised by wolves all by yourself...

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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yutsnark

Submitted by bassndude on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 11:48am.

Correction, incest is NOT legal in Sweden. That will get you two years in prision. Nor is it legal to marry in Russia. While Russia has no law aginst adult incest, using a child may get you shot. Portugal has no laws reguarding incest. 

However, on the upside, if you wish to marry your dog, cow, horse or whatever, I have good news for you!

Move to Venezuela.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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It's interesting to see how

Submitted by Satchmo on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:49am.

It's interesting to see how so many are so quick to distort and mischaracterize another's position and words, and that's exactly what you've done throughout your post (and throughout your other posts). There is no possible way discussion can be achieved when this happens, because there is no attempt to understand the other's viewpoint. If you actually understood my viewpoint, then you'd be able to debate it, but you can't even come to agreement on what that is, despite my repeatedly saying what it is.

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Quit whining

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:11am.

I understand your viewpoint fully. 

You asked the question "What if it was consensual?", which means you have zero problem with incest. 

If you truly thought the act was a disgusting, vile thing, you would have said so WITHOUT QUALIFICATION. 

We DO fully understand your viewpoint and as a result you are getting your ass kicked, as it should be.  Your response?  To endlessly whine about how misunderstood you are and to moralize and pontificate on debate. 

You lose. You will never live this down. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Thank you for dramatically

Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:37am.

Thank you for dramatically underscoring my point.

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Which was?

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:29am.

Which was?

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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well lookie here*

Submitted by cajun2 on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:00pm.

"and I didn't read your post. There was no value in doing so"....satchmo

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yutsnark

Submitted by bkeyser on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 6:08pm.

If it turns out that there's no case for child abuse, why should the government step in?

Are we not a nation of laws? Isn't 3rd degree felony incest - the charge against this individual, a crime? According to New York State, the location in which the incest was allegedly committed, it is.

I'm just curious, was that a serious question you asked above?

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You're right that incest is

Submitted by yutsnark on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 9:57am.

You're right that incest is against the law, and the state can choose to prosecute.  Yes, my question was a serious one.  I don't think government should be regulating sexual conduct between consenting adults.  Similarly, I don't think they should tell us what to eat, drink, or smoke.

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Sickness continued

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:16am.

Sorry, my little anarchist, but as much as it enrages you, you are ensconced in civilization.  You are part of society, and are governed. 

Your whining that government shouldn't be regulating sexual conduct flies in the face of thousands of years of human history and the histories of various human institutions.  And incest 99% of the time does not happen between consenting adults, as has been demonstrated on this thread by people who know about the subject in detail.

If you think it's cool to screw one's own relatives, you seriously are a very sick individual. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Anarchist is another word you

Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:35am.

Anarchist is another word you don't know the meaning of. Unsane, I think you would make a great member of the Junior Anti-Sex League. Your thirst for government control over free people is to be commended! Why, you may soon eclipse Michelle Obama!

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Paging Rod Serling

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:36am.

This laughable comment comes from someone who wants the goverment to give every American an monthly food and clothing allowance.  My irony meter is once again pegged. 

Actuually, I know the meaning of the work, sicko.  Hence I know not to apply it to you.  You become positively enraged at the thought of the government reflecting societies norms, folkways, mores, and standards of behavior - including the proscribing of a behavior that for some odd reason, societies, religions and governments have proscribed for thousands of years - yet you want the government in charge of handing out a monthly food and clothing allowance. 

You're not an anarchist at all.  But you mos definitely have a very warped sense of priorities.

What are you doing up so late anyways?  Having a little fun with (pick one) your daughter/sister/niece? 

I'd make a very poor member of the Junior Anti-Sex League, Eric.  Why?  Because I am not out to eliminate the sex instinct.  I just have something you don't - the instinct to know that screwing relatives is sick, abnormal behavior.  Yeah, I am the FREAK, because when I was 14, I realized that members of the opposite sex WHO WERE IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER RELATED TO ME made me horny.  Rod Serling, where in the HELL are you???

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Well, the more laws the

Submitted by Satchmo on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:39am.

Well, the more laws the better then, right?

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When called for, yes

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:38am.

Only when necessary.  And laws against incest are most certainly necessary.  They are great to keep sick freaks like you locked up who lack the instinct to know that screwing relatives is positively evil. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Laws against incest are

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 9:54pm.

Laws against incest are almost never enforced in consensual situations.

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And how do you know this? 

Submitted by Scuba Dude on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 10:55pm.

And how do you know this?  Are you talking from personal experience?

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." President Ronald Reagan
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You sure?

Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:24pm.

Really now? 

And your constant insistence that incest can possibly be consensual tells me one of two things: one, you wholeheartedly endorse it, or two, you partake, and thus are using all available means to justify your sickness. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Unsane

Submitted by yutsnark on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:56am.

Of course incest can be consensual.  How can one argue otherwise?  Is there such a thing as free will?   Every time a pair of adults who are related, freely decide to jump in the sack together, that's consensual incest. 

I don't recommend the practice, but it certainly exists.  Otherwise, why would there be laws against it?  Why would the article describe the relationship in question as "consensual"? 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sick

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:30pm.

"Of course (incest) can be consensual."  And this sentence is why you are very sick, disgusting freak.  You very cheerfully endorse what should not happen because of INSTINCT.  Because you clearly lack that instinct, you are very sick and should be locked up.  Along with the other sick freaks, satchmo and giles. 

Why are their laws against it?  Well, why do we have a society?  Why do we have a government? 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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good morning yutsnark

Submitted by cocodrie on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:28am.

counseling -  a process preferred by liberals to avoid prosecution

 

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

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You are a sick f#ck

Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 12:40am.

And so is Satchmo and every liberal defending this piece of shit.

Anyway, here is the law on incest, state by state.
 

"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders". - Ted Nugent
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What if it was consensual?

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:48pm.

What if it was consensual?

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So what? Do you see the term "rape" anywhere?

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 1:54pm.

One sick post you just made there.

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You think the government

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:28pm.

You think the government should be invasive of someone's home when neither one of two consenting adults were victims or perpetrators of force or fraud? What business is it of government's?

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Tell you what, you justify your position

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:31pm.

"incest between consenting adults" is a fine thing to do, that everyone else should stay out of it.

Because the law, based in millenia of law on the subject, doesn't support you. 

Go ahead, justify it. 

And quit asking idiot questions to get a response.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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I've never said it was a fine

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:37pm.

I've never said it was a fine thing to do or that everyone else should stay out of it. You're creating strawmen.

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You have two choices, now Satchmo

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:47pm.

Apologize.

Keep it up.  I guarantee you an epic pile on, and you shall never, ever be regarded as anything other than a liberal idiot troll.  No one here will show you a shred of respect, even if you try to redeem yourself with well thought out posts, on topic.

Your choice.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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I swear, I was writing the below

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:49pm.

when you posted that!

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Frankly, I couldn't care less

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:56pm.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what you think of me. It is your choice whether you exercise your mind or not. So far, you seem to be choosing the latter.

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Thank you, Scarlett O'Hara

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:13pm.

.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Damn it Blonde

Submitted by sentry_99 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:16pm.

Exercise your mind an accept incest you narrow-minded anit-intellectual inbred......er...now I'm really confused.  These libs are messing up the stereotypes.

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Backed into another corner, the Squatch once again throws straw

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:48pm.

Keep on rationalizing incest to us.

I predict this will be a historical thread. Just so you know, any future posts from you on more mundane topics will automatically deemed BS due to your comments on this one.

And you did it all by yourself with no help from anyone else. <applause>

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The proper term is "jinx"

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:53pm.

Jinx!

SoL, you and Bru can continue to kick this worthless piece of scum around the room, my boots are slimy from the goo, and quite frankly, the topic infuriates me. 

Carry on...obviously we share both the position and the words.  :)

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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What part of incest is

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:57pm.

What part of incest is disgusting do you not understand?

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The "what if it was consensual?" part, Sasquatchmo

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:08pm.

AKA, the sh*tstorm kicker-offer.

What possessed you to make that comment?

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~Possessed

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:19pm.

That would be a "dumb spirit", and I don't mean "mute".

h/t The Bible

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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No, that was a rhetorical

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:23pm.

No, that was a rhetorical comment on government.

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~Bzzzzzzzt.....FAIL

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:32pm.

Try again.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Look up "rhetorical"

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:34pm.

You have no idea what it means because your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

Now if I were you, I'd sign up for another account right away and abandon this thread. Cause  you will NEVER live this one down.

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~Satchmo

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:53pm.

Will live in glorious infamy on every thread I post on in the forseeable future.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Fix that tag, Bru

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:57pm.

I think the f word is appropriate, at least every time you respond to him.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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~If I change it

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:09pm.

It'll show up that way on every single post, everywhere, retroactively. New NB has some interesting quirks...

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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You never said it was fine?

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:50pm.

Adult bovine excrement.

And I quote (you, troll):

I couldn't care less if Palin or anyone else were screwing their adult son. As long as it's consensual, it's none of my business. It certainly isn't government's. And it doesn't affect my life one bit, nor does it affect yours.

That clearly implies that you're fine with it, fella....nothing to see here, move on.

So you're not only a perv, you're a liar.

 

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Choosing the latter again, I

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:02pm.

Choosing the latter again, I see.

That in no way implies I am fine with it. What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes is no one's business, least of all government's. That doesn't mean I am fine with it; it means that I have a frim grasp of what the limited role and intrusion of government should be. Freedom is a messy thing; some people are going to do things that you may personally abhor, but that aren't the products of force or fraud. You should try fully embracing the notion of liberty some time.

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~We are, pervmo

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:06pm.

When you're fully embracing liberty, it's a tad difficult to squeeze an incestuous relationship in there, too.

If you really thought this behavior was disgusting, you wouldn't be defending it.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Sorry, you perv

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:06pm.

F***ing your daughter is not a right, and has nothing to do with liberty.

Nice try at dumping your problem here on me, though.

BTW, you don't get to say what is the government's business, do you?  Any more than I do....we both have ONE VOTE at the ballot box.

And guess whose side the law is on here, Satchmo.  Oh yeah, that wouldn't be you!

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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YOWZAAA!

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:09pm.

.

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Satchmo,

Submitted by Agnostic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:18pm.

If I keep my wallet in the bedroom will you and other liberals help keep the government out of my money?

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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I'm not a liberal, I'm

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:25pm.

I'm not a liberal, I'm libertarian. The government should be out of all of our wallets no matter where they are. I am, however, a supporter of the FairTax.

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Does not compute

Submitted by sentry_99 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:29pm.

I'm libertarian.  The government should be out of all our wallets... VS. I am, however, a supporter of the FairTax.

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Currently, all taxes are

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:14pm.

Currently, all taxes are seized by force of government. The FairTax is a consumption tax where the actor is exercising his free will in participating in the free market. Understand?

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As opposed to the black market?

Submitted by sentry_99 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:20pm.

I understand that the only way to get good and services legally is through the free market.  Do I have free will if that is the only game in town or do you think the black market maintains my free will?

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The black market is part of

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:35pm.

The black market is part of the free market - two people freely engaging in commerce (I am not including stolen goods in this explanation). Freely, that is in that they agree to the conditions and terms. Currently, black market participants don't pay income tax (think drug dealers) because their income is illegal. Under the FairTax, taxes would come out of everyday purchases by all black market participants, as well as tourists, illegal aliens, the retired, etc.

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That makes NO sense

Submitted by sentry_99 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:41pm.

How do you collect taxes on the black market.  The black market exists to avoid any government controls regardless of legality and taxes.  Even in your libertarian utopia, there would be a black market whose sole purpose was avoiding the law/taxes.  Also, how would you collect taxes anyway? Free will? Would have to...uh...force people to pay taxes?

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You're not collecting taxes

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 5:02pm.

You're not collecting taxes on the black market; you collect the taxes in every single purchase (non-black market) the actors make. For example, a drug dealer pays no income tax; an illegal alien pays no income tax, but when they buy clothes, cars, gas, any product (except groceries, IIRC) then 23% of that cost goes straight to the federal government for its revenue. It's a consumption tax, which is like a sales tax, and completely replaces the income tax. Taxes would be collected just like they are now: by merchants. If an item costs $100, then $23 of those dollars goes straight to the federal government. The tax is embedded in the cost; it is an inclusive tax, it is not added to the $100 dollars, which would be an exclusive tax. Currently, every good contains about 23% embedded taxes. This just replaces those collective embedded taxes with a singular embeddd tax.

And yes, there will always be a black market.

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More criticism

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:46pm.

Yep., and the Unfair Tax will only succeed in making the black market even bigger. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Correction

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:18pm.

Actually, let me correct you on the "Fair" Tax. 

If you HAVE to call your tax proposal "fair", it isn't.  Regressive taxes like the UnfairTax hit those with the least ability to pay it hardest.  Bad idea. 

And sorry, you will never interest me in paying a consumption tax of 31.25% on everything I buy (I am including TX sales taxes for my case in that because they aren't going away).  Besides, forcing people to slam their wallets shut is no way to jump start an economy.

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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~I'm with him

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:26pm.

This would destroy the poor; the only thing they'd be able to purchase would be food. It's nice to be able to buy clothes for your kids and the occasional birthday card too, for goodness sake.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Under the FairTax plan,

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:35pm.

Under the FairTax plan, everyone gets a montly check that covers the essentials (groceries). The amount of the check is based on the size of the family. So if you are a married couple, you would get the same exact amount every month as Bill and Melinda Gates would. That check would cover essentials. If you have money leftover at the end of the month, fine.

It absolutely would not destroy the poor.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_fairtax_four#regre...

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

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Are you kidding me?

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:50pm.

Great, so this "libertarian" wants the government to hand out a check every month for the bare essentials instead of letting me decide to do that with my paychecks and my wits?

Some "libertarian" this clown is.

It absolutely would destroy the poor two ways: by forcing them to spend 31.25% on their taxes for everything they buy, and by destroying their employment opportunities.  When people react to a 31.25% sales tax (again, including local sales taxes which will not go away) by slamming their wallets shut, a lot of retail business (among many others) aren't going to be hiring a whole lot of people.  In fact, they will be laying people off left and right. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Well, it's perfectly clear

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:15pm.

Well, it's perfectly clear that you don't know anything about the FairTax. Nothing comes out of anyone's paycheck. It's also perfectly clear that you don't know what embedded taxes are. Embedded taxes will be removed along the chain from manufacture to final retail point. Prices will be lowered as a result. A 23% embedded tax - pretty much the same rate as current embedded taxes - will be in every good ONLY at the point of final sale. This will replace the income tax. Embedded taxes aren't tacked on to the price, they are inclusive in the price. There will NOT be a 23% sales tax. If your local sales tax is 8%, then that is the only sales tax that would be on any item. Sales taxes are exclusive taxes; the FairTax is inclusive - it is already built into the sticker price. If an item is $100, the final price with your local sales tax would be $108. The retailer collects $77 for himself and $23 goes to the federal government; $8 goes to your local government.

Every household would get a monthly prebate check. Spend it however you wish. At first I wasn't crazy about that part of the legislation, but when I realized that it isn't wealth redistribution, I became okay with it. I'm especially okay with it if this is what it takes to get rid of the federal income tax altogether.

I am happy to discuss the FairTax with you at any time, but only if you truly wish to discuss it. You can IM me. If you just want to continue flinging misconceptions or lies, then have a good day.

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~Flinging misconceptions and lies

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:26pm.

Says the Incest Defender.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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commie & pervert

Submitted by MrShy on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:31pm.

Every household would get a monthly prebate check.

-- Commie who espouses government tyranny and virtual soup/bread handouts to all.

Oh, and NB's resident perv.

- Shy House

Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent

 
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The Unfair Tax

Submitted by Unsane on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 2:03am.

Actually, I DO know quite a bit about the UnfairTax, and you are yet another in a long line of supporters of the UnfairTax whose ONLY defense is, when they are presented a thorough refutation of their proposal: "You don't know anything about the UnfairTax!!!" 

The first thing to understand about it is: if it HAS to be called the 'Fair Tax", IT ISN'T FAIR.  Fair is a relative concept that can ONLY speak for itself. 

A tax that by nature is THE most regressive tax out there cannot be "fair" under ANY circumstances. 

Try to not be chicken and debate this in a public forum. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Actually, you don't. In every

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:32am.

Actually, you don't. In every single one of your posts you are not talking about the FairTax.  It would help if you had at least a basic understanding - or even a basic misunderstanding - then we could discuss it, but we cannot. The FairTax is not a regressive tax. If you read the book and the legislation, you would know this. I urge you to read it.

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No Butt Hurt Stupid Satchmo Troll.

Submitted by The Vet on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:48am.

  You got schooled by someone infinitely more intelligent than you. Now quit bellyaching about your hurt burt and SHUT UP. Or stick your head up Dead Zipper's hurt butt. Either way we will be done with your stupid whining.

  Hey, you forgot to tell us about the non-2 party 2 party system we have. In the face of hundreds of years of common knowledge, you say it is something different. Oh do tell us Butt Hurt Stupid Satchmo Troll.

PS: Ignoring me don't work Butt Hurt Stupid Satchmo Troll. Ask Dead Zippers. Or any one of the 2 dozen banned trolls that won't ever come back. Looks like you are in an intractable situation. I would suggest abandoning the account, coming in under a new name, and acting civilized around other people that care about this country next time.

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The Unfair Tax yet again

Submitted by Unsane on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 7:31pm.

Actually, I do.  But for some reason fervent supporters of the UnfairTax like you greet sound counter-arguments like mine dismissively. Sorry, but I AM in fact talking about your precious, beloved UnfairTax.  I in fact understand it perfectly well - you aren't the first UnfairTax religionist I have run into - and all of you do the exact same thing when countered.  All of you whine about how opponents really don't understand it. 

That must be easier than facing a counter-argument squarely and with intellectual honesty. 

Instead of urging me to read your propaganda, I urge you to study economics, which is a subject it seems you were never taught in school, or ignored altogether.  A consumption tax - which, by your own admission, and by my looking at this proposal - is a regressive tax.  ALL consumption taxes - sales taxes and the like - are regressive. 

And disturbingly, you would love it if the government attacked the biggest part of the GDP, and became a Big Parent by giving people allowances to buy food and clothing...but become positively enraged at the notion that the government would dare outlaw incest.

Before lecturing people on your UnfairTax proposal, maybe you ought to take some time and get you priorities in order.  Because your priorities are very warped and screwed up beyond comprehension. 

Finally, if you HAVE to call your tax proposal "fair", there is a 99% chance that IT ISN'T FAIR.  "Fair" is relative and is a virtue that can ONLY speak for itself. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Not once have you offered any

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:03pm.

Not once have you offered any legitimate criticism or shown that you understand any tenets of the FairTax. All you have done is mock its name out of ignorance. That isn't a counter-argument.

Name one specific thing that is in the FairTax legislation that you disagree with and why.

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If you had actually read his

Submitted by Scuba Dude on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:10pm.

If you had actually read his posts you would have seen he did. 

Reading comprehension on the fritz?

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." President Ronald Reagan
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Satchmo doesn't know how or plain refuses to read

Submitted by Unsane on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 1:22pm.

Thank you for showing me you do not read.

I went through a great deal of issues with it - not least of which was to point out that state sales taxes would remain, and thus, you beloved national sales tax of 23 tacked on to the state/local tax of 8.25% I already pay would turn it into a 31.25% sales tax.

I also pointed out the problems that this would cause.  I also indicated what this could very well do to the economy.

I also asked you to come up with specifics on how this 23% was arrived at, which you have refused to do, because, as with so many other things on NB, we are just supposed to shut up and take your word for it. 

I dissected it in a very lengthy post which you have just said you have not read.  You stopped reading when I very accurately stated that if you HAVE to call something "fair", it isn't.  But the idea that the whole concept of "fair" is relative and that "fair" is a virtue that can only speak for itself is completely lost on you. (For some weird reason, everyone else on NB, seemigly, can figure that out.)

I also take umbrage at the government giving me and everyone else in the country a monthly food and clothing allowance, as you so badly want then to do under your UnfairTax idea.  While not quite as disturbing as you cheerfully accepting incest under the terms of "Oh, well, it's not harming ME!" (in contradiction of several thousand years of human history and not to mention common sense) - it shows that you see government as a Big Parent.  Only Leftists see the government as a Big Parent. 

So instead of barking orders at me, do your own damn research, and read my very legitimate criticisms of the UnfairTax that are on this very thread, authored by me.  And this time, if it won't kill you to do so, face the counter-arguments I have laid out squarely. Being dismissive and whining that "Unsane doesn't know anything about the UnfairTax" are ways to surrender and lose the argument. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Please stick to defending "consensual incest"

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:57pm.

Nobody gives a sh*t about your viewpoints on taxes after the toxic slick you've left on this thread.

You're obviously trying to divert the searchlights - it ain't gonna work.

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~You have got to be kidding me

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:01pm.

You know, there've been people in this country who had all their food needs provided for. They were called "slaves". Yeah, I totally can't wait for the gubmint to send me my monthly food check. I'm sure they'll just send money right on along and not try to control where it goes. Just like with government-run healthcare.

Disgusting.

I'll provide for my own children, thank you.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I was under no illusion that

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:21pm.

I was under no illusion that you would be able to discuss this topic or that you would attempt to inform yourself instead of speaking out of ignorance.

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~"Speaking out of ignorance"

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:25pm.

Says Captain Incest.

ROFL!!

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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"I'm not a liberal!!!!!"

Submitted by MrShy on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:13pm.

"And I abhore incest!!!!!"

Under the FairTax plan, everyone gets a montly check that covers the essentials (groceries).

OMO. The incest-indifferent Satchmo -- who overtly projects with his steady denials that he's not a liberal (and does not approve of incest) -- is something even more extreme than today's brand of anything-goes, relativism liberalism.... he's a freakin' socialist commie through and through.

- Shy Apps

Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent

 
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The proposal is called the

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:37pm.

The proposal is called the FairTax. It was written by Congressman John Linder; the book was written by John Linder and Neal Boortz. The bill never made it out of committee (Rangel was the head at the time).

What you are describing is not the FairTax. The FairTax is not a regressive tax. This is one lie perpetuated by opponents of the FairTax, mainly K Street lobbyists and demagogues. There are embedded taxes in everything we buy. All down the chain, taxes are passed along until it reaches the final consumer. The embedded taxes in any good equals roughly 23%. The FairTax would replace these embedded taxes with a 23% consumption tax. This is an inclusive tax. That is, it is NOT added on to the total. If you purchase something for $100, it does not cost $123. You will get a receipt showing your purchase of $100 with a breakdown of $77 going to the retailer, and $23 going to the federal government.

You are correct that there would still be local sales taxes on them. The FairTax is a replacement for the federal income tax. I would encourage you, and everyone, to read about and learn about the FairTax.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_fairtax_four#regre...

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Weak

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:44pm.

When you HAVE to call your tax proposal "fair", there is a 99% chance that it simply isn't. 

I'm not in the pay of "K Street Lobbyists" or anyone else for that matter.  I did something you apparently didn't do: I stayed awake in economics classes.  You levy a consumption tax, which is what your belived Unfair Tax is, to discourage consumption and encourage saving.  Therefore, the Unfair Tax is already poorly suited for generating revenue. 

Naturally you fail, and fail miserably, to breakdown what all these mythical "embedded taxes" are.  And sadly for you they are not all due to the federal government.  Many of those costs passed onto the consumer come from things like state taxes of various assortments and local property taxes.  The Unfair Tax, by nature, cannot address those issues. 

The Unfair Tax would put an undue burden on NH, AK, and three other states that do not have sales taxes, and thus have no tax collection mechanism for sales taxes.  I seriously doubt that they will set up that infrastructure for free. 

Consumption is the biggest part of the economy, and investment occurs because of consumption.  No one has the incentive to invest if no one is consuming anything.  When you slap an additional 23% tax on top of the sales taxes I already pay, I am no discouraged from buying more items for myself.  I slam my wallet shut and think very carefully about my purchasing decisions as a tax break.  And sure, i'll put more money in the bank, but what good is that to banks and investors if hardly anyone is buying anything because people aren't buying things in order to dodge the tax bite? 

And you fail very miserably to take into account Congress's desire to constantly tinker.  Sure, you say, the Unfair Tax will just magically forever and ever at 23% on everything. Right.  I can't wait for that to be proven wrong when, say, a bunch of MI Reps think the way they can bring back the U.S. auto industry is to tax foreign makes at 40% and American autos at 10% (or something along those lines) and then other lawmakers will make the Unfair Tax code as byzantine and horrifying as the current income tax code. 

Brunette does a more than adequate job explaining how your beloved, regressive Unfair Tax will crush the poorest Americans, so I won't add anything more to that. 

So, I will keep my 6.25% state sales tax (and whatever else local entities add) and would much prefer Steve Forbes flat tax proposal as a replacement for the 16th Amendment, thank you very much.   

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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So you choose to be ignorant.

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:38pm.

So you choose to be ignorant. That's your choice.

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~On choosing to be ignorant

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:41pm.

And I didn't read your post. There was no value in doing so.--Satchmo

Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/12/10/huffington-post-blogger-charged-incest#comment-1393923#ixzz17l89sqhK
Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Don't walk away mad

Submitted by Unsane on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 2:06am.

Then i win.  If the best you can come up with to refute my counter arguments is "You're ignorant", you are done. 

I stayed awake in the economics classes you slept through.  Stop blaming me for your bad decisions.  And learn to accept the basic fact that calling something "fair" doesn't make it so. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Ignorant means uninformed,

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:39am.

Ignorant means uninformed, and you are entirely uniformed about the FairTax. Therefore, you are ignorant, and you choose to be because you refuse to read and learn about it.

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Arrogance

Submitted by Unsane on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 7:37pm.

You are one very sick, arrogant induividual.  I have read at length about it ever since I first heard of it because I know to actually detect pure BS in ANY proposal that has the word "Fair". 

But then, it is much easier for intellectually dishonest people like you simply dismiss counter-arguments rather than to face the counter-arguments squarely. 

Why not actually grow a pair and face a counter-argument? 

(I am eagerly anticipating a pious Satchmo post where he pontificates against the evils of immaturity and name-calling - something that is likewise easier for him.)

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Corrected

Submitted by Agnostic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:41pm.

I stand corrected.  Though I do not believe there is any way a relationship can be considered consensual when there is such a disparity control and free will involved in the relationship.  There is just no way I can believe that the actions of the adult during the raising of this young woman (when she was a child and unable to consent) did not create the current relationship.

Then again if she was out selling herself on the street for the same screwed up father-daughter relationship we wouldn't be so quick to blame just the father.

Still sick, demented and deserving of excessive ridicule and at least societal black-balling.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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It is hard to believe, but

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:16pm.

It is hard to believe, but one must be rational and allow that it can happen. Since no other info was provided, it looks like this is one of those cases. That may change if more info becomes available.

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~Rational?

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:27pm.

Rational?!

There is nothing "rational" about being sexually attracted to your father, you dim-witted, inbred, mouth-breathing, hair-lipped, knuckle-dragging embarrassment to self-respecting Sasquatches everywhere.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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You're not so good at

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:39pm.

You're not so good at reading. It is not rational for a woman to be sexually attracted to her father. It is rational to believe that it could happen, however.

Such anger. The namecalling. I will never make the mistake of assuming you are capable of being mature.

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~Mature..

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 5:24pm.

says the guy defending the "right" of a father to have sex with his daughter.

Unfreakinbelievable.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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apologize in advance

Submitted by Agnostic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:25pm.

But I can't help but think that this story coming out on the same day that President Clinton steps up to the podium to support President Obama is somehow very fitting.

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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~And here

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:38pm.

is an unintended consequence of birth control. Taboo throughout most of human history for societal reasons as well as for the good of the gene pool, the modern efficiacy of birth control has removed the main argument against incest.

Other than the fact that it's psychologically effed up, of course.

Personally, I'm glad this came out. Now we can watch the Dems defend incest. Who wants popcorn?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Sasquatchmo, even as a close relative of homo sapiens,

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:35pm.

I would think you would understand that incest has been the No. 1 taboo since we homo sapiens have been around.

But perhaps this is not the way of the Sasquatch; I admit I know little of your species. But that would explain why there are approx. 7 billion of us and 150 of you.

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consensual?

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:26pm.

Where are your boundaries? What frightens me is what else would you find acceptable behavior.  I'm sure you are more interested in the question is he catholic?

Betrayal of trust and positions of authority and influence was the biggest screeching from the left when priests were involved with alter boys over age 18. Where is your outrage now?

From a professional point of view, I can assure you this perverted  relationship did not start yesterday. There is no "consent" when sexual abuse involves a parent and child.

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"Where are my

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:33pm.

"Where are my boundaries?"

I am certain you are not referring to government, although that is exactly where the discussion of boundaries should be. I don't find it acceptable behavior at all. In fact, it's disgusting. However, they were both consenting adults who were not victims of force or fraud. It's not the government's business.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make about catholicism, and you are mistaken if you believe I'm a leftist or liberal. I'm in no position to speculate when or where or how this sexual relationship started, and frankly, neither are you. The article states it was consensual.

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If the article states it was consensual (it does)

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:37pm.

....then why did you ask?

To stir up a s***storm here, perhaps?

You're the one trolling around this thread, you defend your position and quit attacking the positions of the decent people here who find incest to be a tragedy of epic proportions, the most abhorent betrayal of a child's trust in his/her parent that can possibly be imagined short of murder.

Defend that, satchmo. 

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Because I missed that line

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:39pm.

Because I missed that line when I first read it, and when I tried to edit my post to change it, it said permission was denied.

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Then perhaps you ought to take more care posting

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:44pm.

It's hardly my problem that you're reading impaired and trolling, as well.

Go cry to someone else that you've being "aggressively misunderstood" (and old media bias line, in case you're phrase impaired as well).

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Hmmm... I think the President of the Misunderstood Trolls Club

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:05pm.

is looking for a Sargeant-At-Arms.

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~ PERFECT summary

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:40pm.

who find incest to be a tragedy of epic proportions, the most abhorent betrayal of a child's trust in his/her parent that can possibly be imagined short of murder.
 
Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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"From a professional point of

Submitted by stratman on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:27pm.

"From a professional point of view, I can assure you this perverted  relationship did not start yesterday. There is no "consent" when sexual abuse involves a parent and child."   Agree completely.    One's first position must be that the abuse began while the daughter was a minor.  The next premise is that the wife knew and did nothing or was involved in the abuse as well.  All of this needs to be excluded, not just tacitly accepted since overwhelming statistical evidence is to the contrary of the story the Media is reporting.   On a side note, once in prison I'm sure he'll learn all about "consensual" sex from a different perspective.
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One can only hope, Strat.

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:44pm.

Your side note, last sentence.

I hear you had a dusting of snow....how's that Global Warming thingy working out for you this week?

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Snowed 10+ inches Wednesday. 

Submitted by stratman on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:13pm.

Snowed 10+ inches Wednesday.  Some places had 2+ feet of pure Global Warming.  Supposed to have a brisk clipper race through today with a little more AlGore goodness, Saturday a break, then more snow everyday for most of next week.

Tis the season..

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Lot of assumptions there.  We

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:51am.

Lot of assumptions there.  We don't even know that the incest occurred.  Only that a guy was charged. 

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The assumptions are

Submitted by stratman on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 7:16pm.

The assumptions are mechanisms to guard against failure to identify important particulars.  Statistical evidence lend credence to my post.  My professional experience in this area anecdotally corroborates the statisical data/conclusions.

Has incest occured?  There are indices that it has.  The complaint is specific about dates and data on the relationship - alledgedly beginning in 2006 following sexually explicit "texting", lasting into 2009, and the daughter alledgedly having reached the age of majority before sexual relations began.

On an emotive level, the lack of a direct response refuting the charge from both the daughter and the father, and the very lukewarm response from the father's attorney, on twitter no less, send a confusing signal.

We'll know more as events unfold.

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Incest has been taboo since time immemorial

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:29pm.

....for very a very good reason.  Genetics.  To imply consent between a parent and (even an adult) child shows everything anyone needs to know about you.  Either stupid, uncaring, or merely trolling for a reaction here.  Take your pick.

But leave it to a liberal to try to justify incest with such an idiot question (BTW....you need to work on your reading comprehension).

Incest is a tragedy for the entire family, I care not what this man's politics are. 

There really ought to be a special prison policy for child abusers...they must room with the most vicious murderers in the penal system.  Permanently.  And liberal idiots, too, who support such perversions as a human right.

I'm taking a shower now. 

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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No one is questioning why

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:36pm.

No one is questioning why it's a societal tabboo, and no one is saying it isn't disgusting. I'm no liberal, and I'm not justifying it at all, and I have no idea how you would reach that extremely flawed conclusion. I'm alarmed at how this is the government's business when there is no victim.
The woman is 24 years old and the article states it was consensual. She is not a victim of child abuse. If she were, he'd have been charged with it.

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Hardly

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:41pm.

I can assure you that child abuse and incest don't magically begin at 24.  I would refer you to our resident expert, cajun2.

My logic isn't flawed in the least.

You're the one who is trolling the inference that because the daughter is 24 that it's perfectly okay and none of the government's business.

You defend it.

Because I, and everyone else here, has millenia of law behind us that it is in the interest of society (and the government) to prohibit and prevent the activity which you are advocating.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Your logic is most certainly

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:47pm.

Your logic is most certainly flawed. I'm not a liberal. I'm not defending incest. These two statements are facts. That you have somehow drawn a conclusion in opposition to these facts, is testament that your logic is most certainly flawed. Perhaps you shouldn't begin with flawed assumptions.

I am asking how it's the government's business what two consenting adults do in their homes when there are no victims, when there is no force or fraud. The simple fact is that it's not the government's business.

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Talk about leaping illogic!

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:00pm.

I am asking how it's the government's business what two consenting adults do in their homes when there are no victims, when there is no force or fraud. The simple fact is that it's not the government's business.

 

First, it's not a fact.  It's your opinion (which is wrong).

Secondly, it is the government's business, as the government represents the mores of our society.

There are countless examples of "victimless" crime.  Smoking pot, moonshining, prostitution, etc.

Yet you choose to defend incest between "consenting" (that's a load of crap, by the way, due to the very nature of the parent/child relationship) adults.

You can twist and wriggle all you'd like, you made this bed of incest, Satchmo, now lie in it like a good little troll.

 

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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So it's your belief that it's

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:08pm.

So it's your belief that it's the government's business what goes on in someone's home involving two consenting adults when there are no victims, when there is no force or fraud? And yes, this applies to smoking pot, moonshining, prostitution, etc.

Again, I don't know why you insist on shutting down your mind to my saying incest is disgusting. This is not a defense of incest; this is an accusation of government tyranny.

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~Government tyranny

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:11pm.

Where do you stand on ObamaCare?

Where do you stand on Prop 8?

Where do you stand on the current tax debate?

Who is an advocate of bigger, more powerful government: Palin, or Obama?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I'm entirely opposed to

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:31pm.

I'm entirely opposed to ObamaCare.

I believe it isn't the government's business to say who can or can't marry whom. It is the right of the people, however, to restrict marriage as being solely between man and woman.

A proressive income tax, which is what we have, is a tenet of the Communist Manifesto. Our income tax should be completely abolished.

Obama is a Marxist, Palin is a populist. The answer is Obama.

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~So, which party

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:35pm.

advocates policies that lead to government tyranny?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Just about all of them except

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:43pm.

Just about all of them except the Libertarian Party.

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~Really?

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:49pm.

Name a Constitutional Conservative position that leads to government tyranny.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Constitutional Conservative

Submitted by Agnostic on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:51pm.

Name a mainstream member of the Conservative Party - but I get your point

. . Socialist = Modern Liberal = Parasitoid
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I said "just about all", not

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:55pm.

I said "just about all", not "all". I almost included a caveat about the Constitution Party (is that the same things as Consitutional Conservative party? I haven't heard of Constitutional Conservative Party) because I am unfamiliar with their platform. I had looked at it a few years ago, but I don't remember the tenets.

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~Keep back-pedaling

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:00pm.

Conservatism is about adhering to the Constitution, which was written in direct opposition to government tyranny.

You've been taking the opposing position to conservatives on every thread I've seen you on. Keep telling everyone you're not a liberal. We're convinced.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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You asked me about political

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:09pm.

You asked me about political parties, not ideologies. Since you capitalized Constitutional Conservative, I thought you were asking about a specific party.

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~I always

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:13pm.

Capitalize Constitution. Constitutional Conservative is actually redundant, I just wanted to be absolutely clear as to what principles I was referring to.

Ideology is the whole point of every party.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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In the context of the

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:53pm.

In the context of the discussion, your use of "Constitutional Conservative" appeared as if you were talking about a specific party. And Constituional Conservative is not redundant.

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~>.<

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 5:53pm.

And Constituional Conservative is not redundant.

It is when you aren't using a fake definition of conservatism.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Correction

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:25pm.

Actually, the LAST thing we have is a progressive income tax.  It is a graduated income tax which is designed to punish people for making more money.

A truly progressive income tax is something like the flat tax proposed by Steve Forbes.  I wouldn't consider Steve Forbes a Communist.

The income tax should not be abolished.  Make a Constitutional amendment where the income tax cannot be varied for any reason and hits every single American at 17%, and will tax income only, not capital gains and the like.  Why would I put it in the Constitution?  To stop Congress from constantly tinkering with it. 

I sure as all hell would not replace it with the Unfair Tax that you think is so great. 

(P.S. Your second point is entirely contradictory.)

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Government tyranny?

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:20pm.

The enforcement of the eons-old prohibition of f***ing your daughter is government tyranny?

Who knew?

Yeah, I read your (late to the debate) statement....and I see it for what it is, a lame attempt to wriggle out of your support for our society and our government ignoring incest between a parent and an adult child.

<edit>  Apologies to any here who may be offended by my use of the f*bomb twice on this thread, but there are certain times when its use is not only justified, it's required....and the use of the vulgarity certainly is necessary here to describe the disgusting act which Satchmo is condoning.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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~I thought it was quite apropos

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:27pm.

If the government doesn't let you screw your kids, it's tyrannous. Government employees groping your daughter in public before she can get on a plane to go see granny, however, is just fine.

Hmmm, I see a common thread here. Either way, the kids get screwed. Liberals: Loving children everywhere, all the time.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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"tyrannous"????

Submitted by almostacowboy on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:08pm.

I think you wanted "tyrannical". :-)

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~?

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 12:27pm.

Tyrannous.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I'd say you'd still be justified if you removed 2 asterisks

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:28pm.

Aw, hell just go for it!

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Hey, I'm skating as it is

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:32pm.

....although Scott Whitlock put it in his Blog Title, a direct quote, however.  Slight difference.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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It's ok with me Blonde*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:33pm.

If I continue to comment on this thread, I can assure you there would be a lot more than two F* bombs. Since you and Bru are doing so well, please continue.

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Government exists to protect

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:35pm.

Government exists to protect our rights and our liberties. Does this girl not have a right to choose her sexual partners? Of course she does, as long as no force or fraud is committed, no matter how disgusting her choice of partner is. It is simply NOT the government's business since no one's rights were violated.

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~Effing your dad

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:46pm.

isn't a right, either.

Are you really trying to make incest a women's sexual rights issue?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cavemen were more civilized than you are.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I can't believe you posted that with a straight face...

Submitted by Dave. on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:51pm.

...given what Obama and his Marxist/commie/statist cronies have been doing to this country for the last 22+ months.

-Dave

Vote for the American in November

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No one's rights were violated?

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:52pm.

Really?

An adult child, who has been in the care of a parent, physically and psychologically for many years, is exactly the same as any other adult in regard to the issue of sexual consent, in this instance?

Satchmo, you're delusional if you believe that.  You're the one with the ironclad mindset, here.

Perhaps cajun2 (a retired career social worker who specialized in child abuse) or one or more of our doctors here will disabuse you of your silly notion.

Paging Doc Sam!!!

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Yes, really. No one's rights

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:00pm.

Yes, really. No one's rights were violated. And "adult child" is an oxymoron. You seem to be struggling with the concept of consent.

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~Yes

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:06pm.

When you reach the age of 18, you magically become immune to the effects of a dysfunctional relationship with your parents.

Not.

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Wrong (again)

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:35pm.

I don't struggle with "concepts".  Particularly not the concept of consent.  If this were a fiduciary relationship instead of a sexual one, he'd have his ass hauled off to jail, too, for violating proprietary trust.  But it's merely a matter of inappropriate sex in your eyes, so no harm, no foul.

The only thing foul here is your take on this situation.

You on the other hand, can't discern between your opinion and a fact.  How very typical.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Familial incest*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 5:33pm.

It is called Familial Incest. The parent/perpetrator has a sexual deviancy directed only toward his/her own children. Hence, they are rarely identified as "pedophiles". The significance here is that with Familial Incest, the parent engages in behavior intended to "groom" the child toward  sexual activity as seen as a normal part of parent/child relationships over a period of years. Think of it in terms of "Stockholm Syndrome". The adult child victim has been conditioned to accept this perverted parental relationship from early childhood. These adult child victims suffer tremendous psychological harm when realization of abnormalcy of the relationship occurs. The victims are often dependent, have poor relationships outside the parent/child relationship and often suffer other psychological disorders associated with self/body image.

The incestuous perpetrator is more often diagnosed as "narcissistic personality disorder" as well. This individual has no normal feelings of empathy, compassion for others. Their primary existence is for their own pleasure, fullfillment, comfort. They can be very aggressive and at times violent when they cannot achieve self satisfying gratification they deem important to them. At no time do these individuals ever concern themselves with the consequences nor feelings of others especially toward the victim. They see themselves all "messianic", totally controlling and influencial over this one persons life who is their own child. The issue here, as with all narcissists, is for their own gratification. No concern whatever for the victim.

For some unknown reason to me, familial incest perpetrators are often given much lighter sentences in criminal proceedings compared to perpetrators whose victims are non-related. Often, the explanations given for this discrepency is the same heard from "it doesnt affect me" individuals. As long as the perpetrator stays out of "our" lives, the safety of other children not in question, the perpetrator, espcially when the child victim is over 18, is not considered as great a threat nor having committed a great crime.

Typically of most narcissists, unable to see beyond their own needs, wants, wishes, the trauma suffered by these incest victims is rarely taken into consideration. They tend to believe that the adult/child does not meet criteria for" victim " because the sex was consensual.

We can argue this issue all day long. From historical, cultural viewpoint, psychiatric, even from a criminal justice study of events, we will have varying views IE, the bizzare posts on this thread.

The real issue here is the caution needed to prevent "redefining" the role of parent in our society. Far left liberals already spend a great deal of time and effort "redefining" many other aspects of our society. If a parent becomes the predator and it is allowed or accepted, this will provide even greater disintegration of orderly society. Chaos, perversion, a world without boundaries, is essentially the goal of many of our enemies. It is another tactic in the war games  by liberals to destroy an orderly democratic society. Chaos, lack of rules and boundaries are absolutely required for narcissists to further build a world where they are primary.

Satchmos comments on this thread are not the only examples of this kind of society that is being built slowly by destroying our current society. Look at other groups arguing for DADT repeal,  Gay Marriage, NAMBLA, Dream Act, Sharia Law introduced  into the US, late term abortion cover for Eugenics.

The arguments may cover a plethora of issues but the goals are the same. Destroy rational humane society by eroding the values of our current society in order to meet the needs of those whose sole existence is themselves.
 

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~And the crickets rejoice!

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:04pm.

In the deafening silence from the Perv's corner.
 

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Thank you Cajun

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:30pm.

For explaining why incest with an adult child isn't a "consenting adult" issue...sheesh!  What sane person could possibly consider that it might be hunky dory if the "child" had reached the age of consent?  I still can't wrap my mind around it.

I apologize for somewhat derailing this thread by going off on this Satchmo character like I did, incessantly and without mercy, but the violation of children, in any way, just makes me nuts!  I think all child molesters need to be put down, for the sake of humankind.  No second chances, no mercy.

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A 24-year old is not a child.

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:40pm.

A 24-year old is not a child.

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Listen, Satchmo

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:44pm.

My mother is 88, I am an adult, yet still her child.

Now close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and start screaming "la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la".

Did you not read Cajun's post about familial incest?  Did you not open your mind?  Did you not accuse Bru of being "obtuse" while displaying a monstrous case of obtuse here?

Enjoy your time at Newsbusters. 

Just as Shawn is the porn defender, you have earned your stripes today as the "Incest Is Cool" guy.  Wear it well.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Define child*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 6:54pm.

A 24 yr old Downs Syndrome, physically handicapped, mentally disturbed are not "children" but are defenseless. Again, if you had read my post with any comprehension you would realize that a sexual relationship between parent/child is not one that developed yesterday! Years of predatory grooming and conditioning has taken place. How then does the relationship become "consensual?

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Years? You saying a movie followed by a really great dinner

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:00pm.

might not do the trick? /s

This individual is twisted by human comprehension.

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The 24-year old woman in this

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:23pm.

The 24-year old woman in this story does not have Downs Syndrome.

And I didn't read your post. There was no value in doing so.

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~Locking this

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:28pm.

Disgusting, arrogant, POS in.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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then why did you reply?

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:45pm.

If you did not bother to read my post then why reply? My post was intended to explain the dangers of accepting perversions and distortion of values in our society. I was expressing my views on a thread bearing a subject familiar to me.

If anyone feels singled out or insulted  by my comments, then here are some apt old sayings....throw a brick in a pack of dogs and the one that YELPS is the one that got hit.......or this one....if the shoe fits.....

CLICHE': the gate key to the entrance of a closed mind.

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Ah yes...."I didn't read your post"

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:50pm.

Silly Incest Man....refuses to read a post by an expert in the field of Familial Incest.

What's the matter Satchmo?  Too close to home?  For such an "open-minded person" like yourself?

Disgusting...instead of your daughter, you might want to GFY.

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~This is the first time

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 12:52pm.

I've ever thought that towards someone, even a disgusting troll. But yes, that is an excellent suggestion, J.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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clue bat needed*

Submitted by cajun2 on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 12:53pm.

I never said that Epstein's daughter was Downs syndrome. What I was trying to simplify for you is the concept of "consent". A 24 yr old adult with Downs Syndrome cannot be considered capable of "consent". They do not have the ability to make adequate judgements such as "consent to a perverted sexual relationship". A 24 yr old physically handicapped adult or a mentally ill adult neither would be able to make rational decisions regarding "consent". Meaning, a 24 yr old who has been conditioned and programmed all her life that a parent/progeny  sexual relationship is normal would be unable to determine "consent" is her choice.These are examples of "defenseless" adults unable to defend themselves from predators and their age is not the relevant issue.

Apparantly, those examples are beyond your comprehension since most liberals like you are never able to see the world and others from any prespective other than your own, hence, your comment...as long as it doesnt affect me....Look  up the definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder...it will be like looking in a mirror.

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It's a straw man. We aren't

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 10:05pm.

It's a straw man. We aren't talking about a 24-year old with Down's Syndrome, nor one who is physically or mentally handicapped; it has no bearing. So yes, it's a straw man.

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SatchelMouth---

Submitted by matthewdean on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 10:10pm.

you really should just go ahead and change your username to strawman.

Seems you just can't type out a post without using the phrase.

Are you queer for Ray Bolger?

He has passed on you know.

MD

"The credibility of the story is undermined by the selection of sources." - (h/t Jer)
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3rd strawman*

Submitted by cajun2 on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 10:46pm.

You forgot to even mention the 3rd of my strawman arguments. A child being "groomed" and "programmed" to believe that a sexual relationship with a parent is acceptable.Does a sexual relationship between a father and daughter just occur "spontaneously'? Do both father and daughter "accept" incestuous behavior as part of the relationship being necessary in order to "progress" to sexual activity? Where did the daughter "learn" that this behavior is acceptable?

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If one of the sex partners is

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:38pm.

If one of the sex partners is a minor, or was a minor when the incest or grooming occurred, then it's not consensual, and the crime is child abuse.  If one of the sex partners suffers from a disability, then he/she might be classified as a "vulnerable adult," and laws similar to child protection laws would apply. 

If the incest is truly between "consenting adults," that's another matter.  Laws do exist to penalize people who engage in such acts, but they are rarely enforced.  They are like the old "sodomy laws." 

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Lucky for you

Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:47pm.

.

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well J*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:04pm.

....all child molesters need to be put down...

 I share your sentiments and for 30 yrs I did my best to do just that!..;-)

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For that I thank you, cajun

Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:13pm.

It's a hard job, I know from firsthand experience (I was once a controller at a NPO whose clientele was abused children...I know the toll it takes on the direct care givers).

No educating the willfully ignorant, I guess.

I was more than a tad disturbed to read your post, because the symptoms are eerily familiar every time I turn on the news.

Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)

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Thank you J*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 7:27pm.

Thank you for understanding that my post was intended to explain a lot more going on in our world than David Epstein and his daughter.

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cajun, I pray this satchmo

Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:31pm.

cajun, I pray this satchmo creep has no children.  I really fear for them if he does.
 

Proud member of the 53%!
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Miss Rad*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 8:51pm.

There are many in our society who believe as he does which is why I speak out. Because of people who believe as he does, I fear for ALL children.

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But the openness is what I

Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 9:06pm.

But the openness is what I can't comprehend.  When did we become this sick society where we're bigots for believing marraige is between a man and a woman and having sex with your children (adult or otherwise) should be illegal?


 

Proud member of the 53%!
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I seriously doubt you would

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 12:46am.

I seriously doubt you would be able to articulate what I believe based on this thread. You can't even focus on the facts of this particular story, inventing mentally retarded 24-year old strawmen.

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As opposed to the

Submitted by sentry_99 on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 1:04am.

"a 24 year old is not a child straw man."  Cajun focused very much on this topic in her post that you claimed you didn't read. 

If I had to articulate your beliefs I would say "libertarian" defender of incest with PDS.

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cajun2: That was an

Submitted by stratman on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 9:39pm.

cajun2:

That was an exceedingly well written post on familial incest.  I figured you would be superb given your professional experience in this area.  Well done, Ma'am!

I had written something to answer the question of rights violation this sachtel character commented on.  Not surprisingly, you and I both included comments on the Left's destruction of society.  The more the Left scrape away at society's cohesive rules, the more disorder occurs, which then becomes cyclical in its destructive azimuth.  The primitive Left work for entropic goals using kaos, derision, and guilded promises to achieve it.  There is nothing lofty, intellectual or benevolent in the Left's actions, merely superficial and immediate gratification regardless of future consequences, creating more disequilibrium, a leveraging condition for further decline.

In this there is no enlightenment from the Left, only destruction to satisfy their pseudocerebral selfishness at that moment.

On that note, what gain does satchmo receive from his posts here?  His primary gain may be obvious but his secondary gain murky and troublesome.  There is nothing "Libertarian" about parents and their children having sex.  That would be anarchistic in its form..  Why, then, is he so adamant in his position, posting dozens of defensive replies?

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stratman*

Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 11:30pm.

I am humbled by your compliments. Thank you for understanding the underlying theme of my post.  The important issue here is indeed as you summized. The intent of narcissistic liberals is to destroy our society in order to create an environment more conducive to their pleasure seeking gratifications. They give not one iota of thought to consequences for others neither today nor the future generations. Many simple minded trolls are not even aware that they are tools of these degenerate individuals who wish to remove any restraints from their desired goal of self as all important.

They, meaning enemies to our society, have accomplished some of their goals by redefining issues and ideas of society. For example, abortion is no longer an issue of morality, it has become an issue of "rights". They demonize anyone who opposes those "rights" yet they deny the intent to rid society of the "poor". The proof is that there has been a 25% decline in the black population since Roe VS Wade.  Libertarians often spew "smaller govt" not realizing that that definition has been redefined to mean "fewer restraints" on abhorent behavior.

Posters like Satchmo are annoying but of  no other import. The ideas they spew without thought and comprehension is the real threat we face in our society today. The real war we face is not Dem or Rep, not liberal nor conservative. People need to study what the actions are behind the noise by those most powerful. They are the true enemy.

Thank you for joining me in bringing this fight to the fore.

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How, exactly do you know

Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 3:46pm.

that her rights weren't violated?  Been in contact with Dad? 

A child can't give consent to an adult, and you seem to keep skipping over the idea that this obscenity started long before she reached the age of consent, as if that would even come into play in this case. 

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.
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Because it says that it was

Submitted by Satchmo on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 9:43pm.

Because it says that it was consensual. If you have evidence that it wasn't, then go to the police. The woman is 24 years old; she is not a child. The relationship started when she was 20, so it started after she reached adulthood.

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Sorry, dips**t,

Submitted by UpNorth on Sat, 12/11/2010 - 11:28pm.

but you're so totally wrong.  The relationship started when she was born.  Father-Daughter ring a bell? 

And, she woke up on her 20th birthday and decided that was the day she'd start letting daddy boff her?  Uh-uh, Skippy.  If it, in fact, didn't start til she was 20, and who believes that, besides you, she was groomed by daddy dearest for a lo-o-o-o-ong time.  

Satchmo-Defender of Incest 

To re-elect Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and hitting the iceberg again.
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The sexual relationship began

Submitted by Satchmo on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 10:40am.

The sexual relationship began when she was 20; she was an adult. If you have any evidence that it happened before then, I urge you to contact police with your information.

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You lose again Scratch

Submitted by Rukus on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 1:45pm.

1. No way in hell did she just wake up one morning and say "hey, i'm 20 years old, time to go start banging dad!"

2. No way in hell did "dad" just wake up and say "hey, the daughter is 20 years old, I bet she'd really like to get banged by me!"

3. She was groomed for this, when. she. was. younger.!!

4. You're an idiot and a pervert

_____________________________________________________________ I'm not too drunk to dance! It's just that people keep stepping on my hands!
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Hence the name Rukus*

Submitted by cajun2 on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 2:31pm.

Repeated attempts to explain to satchmoperv with precise and professional terminology made no progress. Here you post, BOOM, pointed  and simple but pretty much what I would like to have stated..

May be why you are called Rukus!!!....LOL

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1. I never said or suggested

Submitted by Satchmo on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 10:08pm.

1. I never said or suggested that is what happened.

2. I never said or suggested that is what happened.

3. If you have information about this case, then I think you should go to the police with your evidence.

4. More namecalling. Not a good sign.

You are deliberately trying to twist the simple facts of the case into something you can attack, because you are unable to dispute and attack the facts.

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show me facts*

Submitted by cajun2 on Sun, 12/12/2010 - 10:35pm.

Please provide me with facts or some verification that a sexual relationship between father and daughter is normal even if "consensual".. Where and when does the "normal" progression of  father/daughter relationship result in sexual activity ?

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I never said it was normal.

Submitted by Satchmo on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 8:42am.

I never said it was normal. Why do you and others keep making things up instead of responding to what I've actually written?

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Because they can't help themselves.

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:10am.

Look at the bright side though: You've made yourself a name in no time. 

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~Jealous?

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:18am.

Find your own cause, like defending a religion that women set themselves on fire to escape from.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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First I'd go after

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:26am.

child molesting Catholics. By your standard of how to judge a religion that would be more there would be more than a billion of them. 

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~That would be more, there would be more?

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:28am.

How many Catholic women have set themselves on fire?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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The correct question would be

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:30am.

how many children have set themselves on fire to escape child molesting priests. Probably none. But that doesn't matter. And give me more time to correct my mistakes.

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~Quick, let's compare apples and oranges!

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 10:34am.

You'll have to be quicker on the draw, slick. We could just continue the talk on Saturday's Open thread, where I've been waiting for you to show up....

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Oh wrathful one

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:24am.

All that would only make sense if we wanted to discuss things. 

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~Your utter inability to defend your positions

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 11:55am.

is duly noted and logged.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Wrathful brute

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:33pm.

I can very well defend my position not to seriously discuss anything with you. Your apparent inability or unwillingness, to give you the benefit of doubt, to comprehend what I'm writing is a start. 

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~Your surrender is accepted

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:46pm.

Get up and quit crying, it's pathetic.
 

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Thank you for not even trying.

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:48pm.

It saves me the trouble of cognitive dissonance. See ya on the next thread.

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~Will you run away from me there too,

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 6:53pm.

like you have the last few threads?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Running away from what exactly?

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 7:06pm.

Non sequiturs?

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~Your cowardice

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:31pm.

is clear.
 

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I'd like to see

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:36pm.

whether we get to the point where our posts just vanish on the right-hand side of the screen. Into oblivion where this conversation obviously belongs.

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~Chicken

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 3:51pm.

Squawk for us some more, trog.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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We're getting closer

Submitted by troglodyt on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 4:05pm.

wrathful one. Keep up the good work.

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Well, I did read your posts*

Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:14pm.

And there was no value in doing so....

After having  re read ALL of the comments on this thread, that uneasy feeling I had for the past several days, finally registered..

A VERY BAD CASE OF DEJA VU. Where is a cop when you need one?

Thanks to all my friends at NB with your insightful comments and appropriate outrage on this particular thread.

NB now  needs a very  specialized  clean up crew !  

http://weaselzippers.us/2010/12/09/pics-of-the-day-5/

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Where is a cop when you need one?

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:32pm.

Interrogating a father who screwed his daughter. Why she wasn't arrested escapes me, though.

But out of curiosity: What was in your opinion the most insightful comment on the matter of incest?

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not insightful but revealing*

Submitted by cajun2 on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:45pm.

Any posts by satchmoperv and the trog!

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Well now I'm disappointed.

Submitted by troglodyt on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:46pm.

I thought you preferred one of the many variations of "sick".

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Poor Butt Hurt Stupid Satchmo Troll.

Submitted by The Vet on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:40am.

Izza bad people calling you names and making your butt hurt even more? 

I thought it was just me Butt Hurt Stupid Satchmo Troll.

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government tyranny?

Submitted by bkeyser on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:08pm.

Yes, anarchy is certainly a viable option. /s

You know, it's one thing to be a libertarian, it's entirely another to believe that the human spirit doesn't require some sort of oversight. To do so would imply that no behavior is worthy of policing and that humans in general are not capable of causing harm to others. That would make you an Anarchist (which, oddly enough, acts remarkably like "governement.")

As a committed Conservative, I understand and dispise an over-reaching government, but crazy is crazy and failing to address it won't make it go away.

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Perhaps we are missing each

Submitted by Satchmo on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 9:49pm.

Perhaps we are missing each other on what "human spirit" is. I think we actually have some agreement in here in general, but I don't think we agree on what "human spirit" is.

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"Government represents the

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:19pm.

"Government represents the mores of society."  Oh dear, I missed that part of the constitution.  So, the government can prevent me from doing something, because Uncle Sam gets embarrassed?  And which branch of government decides what mores are most important?

Excuse me -- I have to ask my congressman how many showers I need to take this week.

 

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It is you who missed out

Submitted by Unsane on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 8:52pm.

Oh dear, you missed that part of society and civilization for the past several thousand years. 

Why DO we have society?

Why DO we have government? 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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The victim is potentially the human gene pool

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:01pm.

Look what rampant incest has done to your Sasquatch gene pool.

No more than 150 of you worldwide, and you're all hiding out in dense forests or Tibetan ice caves.

Not good.

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~They're not

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:16pm.

The only ones..

More.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Protecting the gene pool is

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:19pm.

Protecting the gene pool is the responsibility of government?  Scary.

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Yeah, I'm the scary one.

Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 12:57pm.

.

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You're not the scary

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:48pm.

You're not the scary one, SickofLibs.  But when a government tries to rid the national gene pool of undesirables, it's time to worry.

 

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Sick

Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:28pm.

So because most of us on NB aren't sick like you or your buddy Satchmo, and we believe that sick people like you should pay a price for being sick, we are suddenly Nazis. 

The world gets more and more twisted by the hour.

Keep justifying your sickness. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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"Sick people should pay a

Submitted by yutsnark on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 11:00am.

"Sick people should pay a price for being sick."  You don't really believe that, do you?

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Ted Bundy was "sick", do you

Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 11:04am.

Ted Bundy was "sick", do you think he shouldn't have paid a  price for being sick?

Proud member of the 53%!
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Ted Bundy

Submitted by yutsnark on Sat, 12/18/2010 - 11:55pm.

No.  Ted Bundy paid a price for murdering people. The insanity defense wasn't invoked. Not a victimless crime.

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Sicko

Submitted by Unsane on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 7:56am.

And incest is not a victimless crime, sicko. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Sicko

Submitted by yutsnark on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:42pm.

Right.  Unless it is between consenting adults.  We have come full circle.
 

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Dude you need help.

Submitted by Denny Crane on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 10:55pm.

Incest is OK if it's between consenting adults?

That is just sick and wrong.  No wonder there or so many problems in society, people like you have been brainwashed to think crap like that is OK.

Be on the lookout for random acts of journalism from the MSM~h/t Rush

We Are The 53%

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Products of

Submitted by Boudin on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 11:07pm.

And those who practice it, are likely sympathizers of incest.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty
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Yes

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:35pm.

Yes.  Here in TX, we have a place where the sick pay a price for beign sick all the time.  The place I have in mind is near Huntsville. 

See, I'm not a screwed up sick anarchist like you.  Society has rules, folkways, norms, mores - standards - and governments reflect them. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Fundamental questions

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:20am.

Why does society exist?

Why do we bother having governments at all?

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Fundamental questions

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:22am.

Why does society exist?

Why do we bother having governments at all?

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Those are huge questions, and

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 1:16pm.

Those are huge questions, and I'm not prepared to tackle them.  But here's a relevant article I found:  http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin144.pdf

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I will hear what YOU think and no other

Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 2:30pm.

Screw your article.  I want to know what YOU think.  If I want to know what the author of the article thinks, I'll click the link. 

Now you want to show me you are incapable of thinking for yourself and thinking critically. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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ll, according to the American

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 10:01pm.

Well, according to the American Herititage Dictionary, society is "the totality of social relationships among humans."  In my humble opinion, it exists because humans are interdependent, they instinctively form attachments, and they need to reproduce.

That's about the best I can do for the first part of your question.  The "government" part is even tougher, because there are so many different kinds of government.  I'd say that, ideally, a national government is there primarily to protect the citizens' rights and keep the country safe from foreign invaders.

How would you answer the questions?

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A small part of the answer

Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 12/16/2010 - 7:32pm.

Society exists because of something called collective intelligence. 

And through this collective intelligence, humans figured out millenia ago that sexual relations with relatives produces horrifying results. 

And that people who lack the instinct to NOT engage in sexual relations with relatives are SICK. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Your partial answer sounds

Submitted by yutsnark on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 11:04am.

Your partial answer sounds reasonable.  I would argue that the incest taboo is not exactly an "instinct," but that's a small quibble.

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Whatever stupid antithetical incest loving troll.

Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 11:50am.

  What is it with stupid antithetical trolls that none of them manage to fill out the subject line and they all put 2 spaces between sentences when modern fonts automagically wipe out the 2 spaces.

  Whatever Dead Zippers sock puppet. Just a big coinkidink that you all appear identical.

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Sickness

Submitted by Unsane on Fri, 12/17/2010 - 10:37pm.

You would make that argument because you are a sick freak who wholeheartedly endorses incest. 

To me, there's no gray area here.  If you have sex with your relatives, its SICK.  End of discussion.  And you are even more sick if you condone it. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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Sickness

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/20/2010 - 12:20am.

Nope, I don't endorse incest at all.  Incest is a terrible idea.  But if you find a consenting adult to do it with, I don't think you should be arrested.  There's just no reason for the government to get involved.   


I'm really surprised that so many people here want government dictating what we may do in the privacy of our own home.  I thought conservatives believed in limiting government's powers to those  enumerated in the constitution.  Maybe I was thinking of libertarians.

Think of it this way:  If incest between consenting adults is illegal simply because it's a "bad thing," then what's to stop the government from prohibiting other "bad things"  --  like  rap music, Hostess Twinkies, and the Designated Hitter?

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sicksnark needs to go to jail

Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 12/21/2010 - 11:13pm.

Shut up, sick freak.  You whine that you don't endorse incest, but then say that consent exists in an incestual relationship.  This means YOU IN FACT ENDORSE INCEST, and as such, YOU ARE A SICK FREAK WHO SHOULD BE LOCKED UP. 

The government NEEDS to get involved because incest is SICK.  People who endorse it like you and satchmo are SICK. 

You conflate being a conservative with being an anarchist.  And you also fail to note that this is a federal, NOT a unitary, government. 

And you go further in your last paragraph proving just how much of a sick freak you are.  Rap music does not lead to the same horrifying consequences as incest.  Ditto Hostess Twinkies and tyhe Designated Hitter.  Basically, either society dispenses with millenia of history and endoerse incest, or this country is more oppressive than North Korea.  It's a weak strawman, and it's the same sort of statement that Leftists make, like "Either you support the government takeover of the medical industry or you hate cops, teachers and firefighters." 

Quit trying to justify the indefensible, you sick, disgusting freak. 

"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)

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~No one

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:07pm.

Magically finds herself sexually attracted to her father. And for argument's sake, even if it did happen, what kind of father would reciprocate? In order for this to take place at all, the father had to have had an inappropriate and unhealthy relationship with her from the time she was a young child. He steered the relationship in this direction.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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You're right that child abuse

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:02pm.

You're right that child abuse doesn't begin at 24.  However, incest can begin at any time.

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What if it was?

Submitted by taznar on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:49pm.

"What if it was consensual?"

What it it wasn't?

What are the chances a child, who unconditionally loves a parent, is going to say "no" and risk the relationship they have with their parent? Whether the daughter "consented" or not, the parent took advantage of her. That's what makes it so heinous.

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You apparently never spent a weekend with a Sasquatch family

Submitted by SickofLibs on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 2:55pm.

First you get up, make coffee, go to Dunkin Donuts, watch the NFL pregame, then have sex with any female offspring that were stupid enough to hang around.

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If it wasn't, then it would

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:03pm.

If it wasn't, then it would be rape and I would be calling for his capital punishment.

And a 24-year old is not a child.

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~She's HIS child

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:08pm.

Regardless of how old she is.
 

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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I don't think anybody said

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:26pm.

I don't think anybody said she wasn't?

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~"A 24 year old is not a child"

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:29pm.

Not a child

She's his child. No matter what.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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She is not a child in that

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:37pm.

She is not a child in that she is an adult. She is his child in that she is his daughter. Two different definitions, two different things. No one has said she is not his child.

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~Child, child, child

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:44pm.

child, child, child, child, child, child, child. She's his child, and by abdicating his role as her protector and taking on the (incest law-breaking) role of an abuser, he deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

No adult woman looks at her dad and becomes sexually attracted to him. He set this up during her childhood.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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You are purposefully being

Submitted by Satchmo on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 3:57pm.

You are purposefully being obtuse.

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~Says the guy defending incest

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 4:02pm.

While pretending to think it's disgusting.

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Point of information

Submitted by yutsnark on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 12:54pm.

"Child" can refer to a stage of human development (post-infant and pre-adolescent).

"Child" can refer to a legal minor (anyone age 0 to 18).

"Child" can refer to one's offspring, regardless of age.  (E.g., "I have two children; one is 17, the other is 26.)  When used in this last sense, the term "adult child" is not an oxymoron.

 

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24 is a child

Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 12/10/2010 - 9:49pm.

According to the U.S. government at 24 you can be on your parent's health insurance, so you're still a child.

Proud member of the 53%!
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According to my rabbi, I

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:04pm.

According to my rabbi, I became an adult at 13.

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~And how many years

Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:11pm.

Have you spent since then proving him wrong?

Obama's WTF 2012 campaign slogan: "A dog in every pot"
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Nobody proves my rabbi wrong.

Submitted by yutsnark on Tue, 12/14/2010 - 10:09am.

Nobody proves my rabbi wrong.

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If she were, indeed, a child,

Submitted by yutsnark on Mon, 12/13/2010 - 12:30pm.

If she were, indeed, a child, then there is no such thing as legal consent, and it would be child abuse. 

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