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Krugman Tries to Explain His Call for 'Death Panels' to Balance Budget

By Noel Sheppard | November 15, 2010 | 11:43

A  A
Noel Sheppard's picture

Someone must have told New York Times columnist Paul Krugman that he had opened up a can of worms with his call on Sunday's "This Week" to create "death panels" to help balance the budget.

Shortly after the ABC program aired on the East Coast, Krugman published the following explanation at his blog:

I said something deliberately provocative on This Week, so I think I’d better clarify what I meant (which I did on the show, but it can’t hurt to say it again.)

So, what I said is that the eventual resolution of the deficit problem both will and should rely on “death panels and sales taxes”. What I meant is that

(a) health care costs will have to be controlled, which will surely require having Medicare and Medicaid decide what they’re willing to pay for — not really death panels, of course, but consideration of medical effectiveness and, at some point, how much we’re willing to spend for extreme care

By trying to clarify, Krugman seems to be digging himself deeper into a hole, for "how much we’re willing to spend for extreme care" was part of Sarah Palin's point when she first wrote about this at Facebook in August 2009.

Palin elaborated about a week later after the President responded to her first piece:

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones.... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

Now, fifteen months later, Krugman said the following on "This Week" as previously reported by NewsBusters:

Medicare is going to have to decide what it's going to pay for. And at least for starters, it's going to have to decide which medical procedures are not effective at all and should not be paid for at all. In other words, it should have endorsed the panel that was part of the health care reform.

If it's not even -- if the commission isn't even brave enough to take on the death panels people, then it's doing no good at all. It's not educating the public. It's not telling people about the kinds of choices that need to be made. [...]

Some years down the pike, we're going to get the real [budget balancing] solution, which is going to be a combination of death panels and sales taxes. It's going to be that we're actually going to take Medicare under control, and we're going to have to get some additional revenue, probably from a VAT. But it's not going to happen now.

This may have been "deliberately provocative," but so were Palin's comments which he now seems to be somewhat agreeing with albeit without having the nerve to admit it.

To cut Medicare costs in the future - an essential part of budget balancing according to Krugman - the government is going to have to decide which procedures it will cover and which it won't. These decisions will admittedly involve a cost-benefit analysis. This means the individual's rights are being subordinated to the government's financial interest.

As the government has deep budgetary problems, the cost-benefit analysis will naturally morph towards financial restraint thereby further limiting a patient's options and therefore his or her rights.

This budget balancing approach was similarly advocated by former Clinton labor secretary Robert Reich in 2007:

We're going to have to, if you're very old, we're not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It's too expensive...so we're going to let you die

In the end, Krugman's attempt at being "deliberately provocative" was really him saying in front of the cameras what Palin and others warned was the danger of allowing further government intrusion into healthcare.

If only such dangers were better explained to the public before Congress voted on this bill in March.

About the Author

Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Click here to follow Noel Sheppard on Twitter.
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Comments

Death panels

Submitted by tampamom25 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:53am.

It's always interesting to watch liberals try to backpedal when they realize they've slipped and let out part of their real agenda.  But now the words "death panels" are out there and they'll be discussed and everyone will get used to the term and it won't seem quite so horrific as it once was.  The left will go to great pains to make the words seem kinder and gentler..... hopefully make the people numb to it and it won't be as awful when it really happens.

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Palin 458 - Oblunder 0

Submitted by Tomorama on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:55am.

Is this really a surprise Noel when one considers Obama's medical advisor and Rahm's brother wrote extensively about this very subject and yet he STILL IS Obama's medical advisor?

The belief is that the REAL young and the REAL old who HAVEN'T and CAN NO LONGER contribute to society don't deserve and shouldn't get priority care OVER the groups of say 14-55 that can contribute more to society.

Not a crazed rightwing opinion, but a factual statement based on OBAMA'S OWN MEDICAL ADVISOR.   

AGAIN Palin was RIGHT and the media covered for the POS and useless president.

If you make poverty easy, you will have more of it. Benjamin Franklin
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shutupnoelsheppard

Submitted by Cool Arrow on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:58am.

Gettin' a little big for yer britches there aren't you Mr. Sheppard?
I was checking out "The Blaze" yesterday and darned if they didn't link to your little nugget on NB.
Better watch out.  Never know when they'll resurrect Stephen King's old blog.

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CA

Submitted by Noel Sheppard on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 2:42pm.

CA,

You got me! For a moment, I thought we had been re-infiltrated by Kingbots! :-)  ns

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Be Gone, Liar

Submitted by rammingspeed on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 12:07pm.

This t*rd can twist it any way he wants. He is a pure Marxist who fully supports Addios aid for the elderly, in order to give money to young womb-to-tomb no accounts. He and his comrades screamed and lied in reaction to Sarah Palin's call out about death panels, but she was 100% accurate all along. (As if we didn't know.) Now, the truth is coming from the lips of the liars themselves. Good. The more exposure they get, the sooner they'll be gone.

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It's clear to me

Submitted by HockeyKid on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 12:43pm.

that Obysmal has no utilitarian value to America--in fact, quite the opposite.  Does this mean he's going to volunteer to demonstrate how a death panel works?

Didn't think so.  Libs never live by their own rules.

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

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Is it too soon to call for

Submitted by Jack Bauer on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 12:54pm.

Is it too soon to call for Death Panels to balance Liberals like Krugman?


All of the above Mr Obama? --- How about ALL OF THE BELOW, instead.
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Paul is really pedaling backwards

Submitted by StarAZ on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:02pm.

Check out today's...

   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/opinion/15krugman.html

 

 

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dang....

Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:52pm.

That bothers me where he talks about the Chairman's "immense power" as if there's nothing to stop him from using it and is encouraging him to use it.  Kinda like "go ahead, be the king!"

-Jon

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We understand you, Paul, completely.

Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:04pm.

We understand you, Paul.  You think it's best if the federal government makes the critical care medical decisions for millions of Americans, but only if they are poor and elderly.

For those like yourself, no need for government appointed "panels" to decide if any possible medical treatment YOU may receive is "cost effective."  No, for yourself, only you and your doctor can make those decisions and you health insurance policy better cover it or there will be hell to pay. Isn't that right, you frigging hypocrite!?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court

Or Anwar al-Awlaki.

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My personal "Death Panel" plan.

Submitted by Newsbubba on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:09pm.

Being of occasionally sound mind, and pretty sound body for someone my age, I have already settled on my plan for bureaucrats who will staff "Death Panels."  It will definitely be a high risk job if they call me in to inform me that some procedure that I need is being turned down because I'm old and useless and it costs too much, in their opinion.

If I'm going to "save the taxpayer some money" then, by God, I'm going to save them some more, because someone on that panel being paid with taxpayer dollars is going to accompany me!  I figure if it's worth me croaking a couple of years early, then it's REALLY going to be cost effective to take some lame brained, overpaid, liberal 30 year old twit with me.

How's that for our own "Death Panel" fellow useless old bastards?  We'll see who will take that job for the $150,000 federal government pay with benefits.

Comrade Bubba
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Logan's Run

Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:15pm.

Paul, and his like, due to the policies they seem to support, remind me of the book, Logan's Run, where the "elderly" were euthanized to eliminate the  "burden" they inflicted upon society.  I always thought that this was just science fiction, but now it appears to be rapidly approaching reality.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court

Or Anwar al-Awlaki.

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which version?

Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:57pm.

Which version?  The movie or the books? (there were three novels)

Either way, what's next, lifeclocks that tell you when Lastday is, Centers for those places?

Ugh.  Truth can be stranger and even scarier than fiction.

-Jon

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There were three?

Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 3:39pm.

There were three novels?  I only read one.  Now I'll have to look for the other two.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court

Or Anwar al-Awlaki.

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Stranger than fiction

Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 3:48pm.

Speaking of "stranger than fiction," I remember a short story, I don't remember what the title was, but I think it was science fiction, that had our government officials selected by a general lottery instead of being elected, just like we do with juries.  The theory was that we'd be better off just randomly picking citizens to run our government as opposed to electing them, for anyone who spends that much time and money seeking power through elections is inherently corrupt and can't be trusted.

The rest of the story wasn't memorable, obviously, but I DO remember that part!  I thought  then that it was a good idea.  Current events have only strengthened that thought.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court

Or Anwar al-Awlaki.

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I know the concept

Submitted by jon_torlin on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 5:08pm.

I hear about this from people all the time, one talking head said "you could get the phone book and select 400-500 people and they would do a much better job than the way it is done now with Congress" or words to that effect.

What I would like to see in such a situation is that if someone is selected by loterry to be a government official, that they are paid for it in a better way than they are now, IE because it disrupts their lives by doing the service.  I wouldn't know how to detail something like that, but for damn sure, Congress in this fashion doesn't need to be awarding themselves "pay raises" like they have in the past.  The one thing I would want to see is that they DO follow the Constitution rather than try to change it in such a way that's detrimental to the people like it's happening right now.  And if they do try to do so, they be removed forcibly and tried for treason.(which they should be doing right now)  It's just that simple.

As for the Logan's Run books, it's Logan's Run, Logan's World, and Logan's Search.  Looks like they can be found on Amazon at least.

-Jon

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It is easy for the elites

Submitted by DWoSD on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:30pm.

It is easy for the elites like krugman to aknowledge the reality of what these social engineers have reaped upon us, because they know that it will not apply to them.  As wealthy leftist they know that they can find the treatment they will need anywhere money can find it. 

But their policies and beliefs are "for the good of us all".

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love it

Submitted by caveman1313 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:46pm.

love it when liberals slip up and actually say what they are thinking and planning.

 

not really death panels but rather a committee that will decide when the government will stop paying for care that keeps you alive.  ah, the liberal nuance.  the committee won't kill you, not directly, when you die will be left up to you. 

ha!  so it is all about choice!  the government wants to be in control of your healthcare up to the point where it gets expensive, then they give you your freedom of choice back!  it is a benefit, don't you see?
 

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ObamaScare: Helping millions through hurting millions

Submitted by ekslib on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:53pm.

http://i51.tinypic.com/if5w6c.jpg

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Your arithmetic is a little off ...

Submitted by NL207 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:57pm.

"Helping millions through hurting tens of millions"

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.

Submitted by NL207 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 1:58pm.

.

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Time To Tell The Truth

Submitted by Ashrak on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 2:04pm.

"If only such dangers were better explained to the public before Congress voted on this bill in March."   They were explained, as this article points out, by folks like Sarah Palin. The problem is that mainstream media LIED about it over and over and over trying to cover for their savior Obama.

This legislation was overboard, on so many levels, on purpose.   It was designed to fast track to the Supreme Court -so that commerce clause case law precedent can be preserved by heading off the obliteration of it by Tenth Admendment challenges empowerd to succeed by the Heller and McDonald decisions.   If only people had been paying attention to the profound nature of the McDonald case, Justice Thomas would have written the Majority decision instead of what he did.    Obamacare isn't, and never was, about health care. It wasn't even about insurance. It is about preserving usurped economic control over a people who are supposed to be free.   I am not a state, I am not an Indian Tribe and I am not a Foreign power. Neither are you who reads this. The federal government is not Constitutionally empowered to regulate commerce between us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a court said. Well, the Constitution DOESN'T say! The court basically amended the Constitution and that too is in error. For the Constitution says that act must first come through the legislature and then be checked by the state legislatures.    This nation's political discourse must turn is focus to the commerce clause and how badly it has been ravaged by a runaway court within a corrupt government.  Notice what Justice Breyer just had to say days ago -' we can't control them'. Well, it is time to show him how wrong he is.  We The People can, and must for Liberty's sake, and we use the Constitution, the Supreme Law Of The Land to do so.
That an individual right exists requires that some policy positions be removed from the table of debate.
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Welcome to the Death Algorithm America

Submitted by Harbour11 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 2:09pm.

The pieces were put in place with the electronic medical records provisions stuck into the Stimulus bill last December.  There won’t be death panels, there will be death algorithms. 

Computer programs that will take everyone’s heath, demographic, wealth, and who knows what other kind of data, and will give each of us a Health Score, nit unlike your current FICO credit score.  This score will determine if you get a treatment, or “the pill.”

So what factors will be given the highest weight in determining that score?  Weight, race, weath, what you do for a living, obesity, smoking, alcohol........who decides those parameters and their weighted average?  

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2112, anyone?

Submitted by CobraMan on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 3:57pm.

We've taken care of everything
The words you hear, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

Look around at this world we've made
Equality our stock in trade
Come and join the Brotherhood of Man
Oh, what a nice, contented world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court

Or Anwar al-Awlaki.

  • Login to post comments

Not that Rush...

Submitted by GW on Tue, 11/16/2010 - 6:33pm.

When I tell people that I like listening to Rush, they automatically think I'm talking about Limbaugh.

"Unfortunately, some people use belief-based facts rather than fact-based beliefs." -Par for the Course on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 5:38pm
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Electronic medical records

Submitted by Ashrak on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 4:18pm.

Scanners that take your digital palm print are already in place and in use here.

That an individual right exists requires that some policy positions be removed from the table of debate.
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Allocation of benefits

Submitted by cestes on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 3:54pm.

There will be 6 different categories for benefits depending on the severity of the health condition.  They will range from simple ailments such as upper respiratory infection to hospice care for end of life issues.  The dollars allocated to each category will vary with the concentration being in the group with the greatest chance at full/productive recovery.  You can read between the lines.  There will also be a rating scale with parameters for allocating dollars within each category.  This scale will ask questions such as age, BMI, chronic conditions, level of mentation/cognitive functioning and ability to perform activities of daily living independantly.  This is what's coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVsr-_-v2sI
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has anyone heard

Submitted by ripper58 on Mon, 11/15/2010 - 4:39pm.

the commercial from the Admin. telling folks on medicare to turn in their friends/neighbors for fraud? " Thanks for the tip Granny now about that hip replacement,hmmmmm don't think so"!~!! This manchild has wreaked havoc on this country that will take DECADES to fix!!!

"I got pie" ...BHO 2011
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ZARDOZ

Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 11/16/2010 - 12:08am.

Anybody remember the end of "ZARDOZ" when all the immortals were pleading with Sean Connery for the pleasure of being killed?

Maybe these elites will convince each other that they owe it to the planet to take the first step.

I'll play the part of [sic] Chauncey Gardener.  I like to watch!!

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