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Charles Krauthammer Schools Carlson and Krugman on Raising Social Security Retirement Age

By Noel Sheppard | November 13, 2010 | 12:17

A  A
Noel Sheppard's picture

Charles Krauthammer on Friday gave a much-needed education to Bloomberg's Margaret Carlson about why the age at which one can receive Social Security benefits must be raised.

His words on PBS's "Inside Washington" also refuted Paul Krugman's foolish claims on this matter published in Friday's New York Times (video follows with transcript and commentary):

GORDON PETERSON: Margaret, do you think Congress will dare touch any of the third rail stuff? Social Security, for example?

MARGARET CARLSON: Well, they’ll, they’ll touch the means-testing, I think, because as Warren Buffett says, he shouldn’t be getting his Social Security check. You know, the fairness of these cuts and the tax cuts have to be dealt with, because some of these proposals they hurt the 69- year-old. Listen, a blue-chip corporate lawyer, all of us, we can work till 69. My Irish grandmother, you know, working in a hotel changing beds, she can’t work till she is 69. Some of this stuff has to be worked out, and in context with the tax cuts. Should we put another $40 trillion hole in the deficit with tax cuts for the wealthy? I mean, let us put all this together and try to make it fair.

PETERSON: Alright, let's listen to Erskine Bowles, the co-chairman of the deficit commission who served as Bill Clinton’s chief of staff. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO)

ERSKINE BOWLES: We are clearly on an unsustainable path. We can’t grow our way out of this problem, we can’t tax our way out of it, we can’t cut our way out of it. Every single member of Congress knows that the path we are on today is not sustainable, and that if we don't bring these deficits down, and eventually get to balance, you know, we are headed for disaster.

(END VIDEO)

PETERSON: There are twelve members of Congress on this fourteen member commission, Charles.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: Well, look, there is no way the commission is going to approve this. That’s why the chairman spoke out in advance, because just about anything they are recommending will fail to get the super majority that you need on that commission. It’ll probably have almost zero recommendations. But I just want to make one point. Margaret is talking about her grandmother not being able to work till 69. Margaret, this does not apply to your grandmother. It does not apply to anybody in kindergarten or above. It kicks in 2075, meaning the only people it’s going to affect are pre-kindergarten. And their option is you work until you're 69 or you get nothing because it won’t exist in 2075.

CARLSON: Are those pre-kindergartners who are happening to be doing labor as opposed to not doing it, having the cushy jobs we have, Charles?

KRAUTHAMMER: If we had indexed the retirement age to life expectancy, it would be way in the seventies now. The idea of a pension instituted by FDR and before him, Bismarck, was to support you in your old age. We are not retiring in old age, and it isn’t even close, and that’s the huge mistake we make. A third of your life is spent receiving the funds of other people who pay taxes, and that’s completely unsustainable.

Indeed.

As NewsBusters previously reported, Nobel laureate Paul Krugman made a somewhat similar claim to Carlson's in his column Friday that life expectancies haven't risen as quickly for poor folks as they have for the rich, and it would therefore be unfair to raise the Social Security retirement age.

Not surprisingly, Krugman ignored statistics published in his own paper two years ago finding that in the year 2000, the poorest people in America lived almost fifteen years longer than the average person did in 1935 when Social Security was first created.

As the retirement age was 65 back then, some increase in when folks can begin to receive benefits in the future regardless of their income level is not only reasonable but also necessary to keep the program from bankruptcy.

As Krauthammer accurately noted, when Social Security was enacted, the intention wasn't that people would spend one third of their lives receiving benefits. Quite the contrary, as life expectancy was only 57 back then, the original equations assumed most people would die before ever receiving one penny.

By not indexing the retirement age to changes in life expectancy, that equation has now morphed into something completely different and therefore unsustainable.

What folks like Carlson, Krugman, and others in the liberal media don't understand is that if life expectancy increases without any change to the age in which one can begin to receive Social Security benefits, you're continually raising the amount that Americans can receive over their lifetimes without increasing how much they pay in to the system.

Even a fifth grader can understand that can't go on forever without the program going bankrupt.

Sadly, when it comes to such simple mathematical concepts, it is quite clear that Carlson, Krugman, and their ilk really aren't smarter than a fifth grader.

About the Author

Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Click here to follow Noel Sheppard on Twitter.
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Comments

Life expectancy unchanged?

Submitted by JakeMo on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:29pm.

According to the White House's "Economic Case for Health Care Reform," they claimed life expectancy would be increased.

If they really believed that, how can they now claim that life expectancy won't change between now and 2075?

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sure would be nice

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:29pm.

if there were an additional 50 millions people (and their off spring) pay'n into social security..huh.

Hows that Roe v Wade work'n out for ya.

 

roflmao

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Flat tax and raise the retirement age

Submitted by Galvanic on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:31pm.

Install a flat tax (not a VAT).  When we eliminate the current tax code, 

1)  Washington lobbyists are out of a job.

2)  The Congress can no longer use the tax code to (a) engineer social behavior and (b) reward friends while punishing enemies.

Adjusting the retirement age to realistically reflect the rise in life expectancy since the New Deal makes perfect sense and is long overdue.  Failure to adust dooms Social Security.

 

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Retirement should be self funded.

Submitted by Red Jeep on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:55pm.

Government shouldn't be in the retirement business. Your employer may want to fund some of your retirement as an incentive to making you stay with the company you work for, but other than that no.

I suppose politicians would not favor self funding of retirement because people would want to keep more of their own money to save for retirement.

I agree with both Margaret and Charles to some extent. Margaret is right that in some occupations that are physically demanding you can't work much past 60. But Charles is right too, we are not retiring "old" now. So what to do? Ultimately Social Security has to be phased out, and we become responsible for ourselves.

Someone I knew recently died at age 99. That person had retired at age 62, 37 years retired. There is no way any employer can plan for that or government. 

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Yes government should be out

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 4:32pm.

Yes government should be out of the retirement business, but isnt SS more than retirees?  And as far as working, my dad worked until he was 82.  In the days people worked until they keeled over or saved for their old age or their kin helped them or any of those combinations.  We need to go back to the self reliant type of living.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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There's more to it than that

Submitted by KC Mulville on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 5:26pm.

With respect, I disagree.

Remember, one of the purposes of social security is to offset the effects of inflation. If you put in $100 of SS tax when you're aged 30, that $100 won't buy as much when you retire 35 years from now. That was one of the original arguments for Social Security in the first place. No one was putting money away for retirement because inflation was rendering it useless. 

If you want people to take care of their own retirement, they have to make preparations for it long before they retire. But if their preparations are chopped to pieces by inflation, no one is going to bother. So the argument was to offset inflation through additional payments from the SS fund. 

It wasn't a bad idea, but it was ruined by the way they chose to fund Social Security. Instead of an investment model, they chose the current Ponzi scheme that we have now. 

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More popcorn please

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:51pm.

so now they wanna means test who receives SS... Hum... did they means test when they forced ya to pay N.... Bwahahahaha

They forced ya to pay ya whole life and said when ya reached X ya would start receive'n....  what was due ya..... Bwahahahahaha

How's that 13 dollar stimulus check work'n out 4 ya

roflmao

 

 

 

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SS

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 12:55pm.

a crappy annuity...... Can't borrow against a cash value.... If ya die before the benefit date..ya heirs receive nut'n.

Yep that sounds like a good deal.. no need to go further

roflmao

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FDR vs Bernie Madoff

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 1:08pm.

When it comes to investment/retirement schemes, is there really any difference between Madoff and Roosevelt, besides Roosevelt's scheme being mandatory?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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Cross purposes

Submitted by StarAZ on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 1:09pm.

Trying to increase lifespan, while extending time until you can collect money you were forced to put in. Or telling us to save for ourselves, then screwing up the economy so very few benefit from investments...we are sort of at a bad little standstill. Dr Krugman? Oh, forgot--he is out of ideas. How about the one with the rich wife--Friedman? Anything there?

 

 

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End Social Security NOW!

Submitted by JustAl on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 1:30pm.

Socilism does not work, in any form or fashion.

 

1.  Shut down all government agencies and depratments not directly identified as necessary under the Constitution ie. HUD, Education, BATF, IRS, EPA, BLM.

2.  Sell all lands and other government assests not directly needed to fulfil the government's primary responsibilites as specified in the Constitution.

3.  End all foreign aid.

4.  End US involvment in the UN and assoicated expenses.

5.  Use the proceeds from the above to refund with interest all money stolen from workers under the social security ponzi scheme and to pay for current obligations to retires etc.

6.  And end all government involvment in the lives of individual, law abiding citizens.

 

This is the only real solution to social security.  This was started as a vote buying scam by FDR and every politician since has been scared sh****ess to admit it, and end it.  But the same government that can not administer health care or schools worth a damn should not be administering retirement for citizens either.

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Manipulation

Submitted by ajkrik on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:03pm.

I went on a rafting trip this summer in CA, and there was a teacher and her boyfriend who was a fireman. We gravitated to political discourse and they both acknowledged that they were both generally conservative.

"But if we don't vote for the Democrats, we'll lose our pensions."

It is a vote buying, vote retention scam!

Trash Social Security. It's meaningless any way because they'll just give the Fed authority to "pump" non-existent money into the Social Security system. But our whole economy is so marbled with this kind of socialism . . . it actually gives social endeavors a bad name.
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SSN, aka our future Charity Fund for Seniors

Submitted by mom_rox on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 1:32pm.

If we are going to "means test" social security, then let's just rename it as a Charity Fund for Seniors, since that is what it would be. Of course, this is a "federally required" charitable contribution (no tax deduction for that ;)

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Once again, Dr. K does the slam-dunk!

Submitted by motherbelt on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 1:49pm.

Social Security was enacted to protect seniors from abject poverty.

So yes, by all means, means test it!

We have criteria that have to be met for food stamps, etc., why not SS?

Can't do that until we get cleansed of this attitude that "I put into it for all those years, I want mine back."  How many of those would be willing to stop at the point that their benefits exceed their input?

SS has long ceased to be a retirement benefit funded by contributions; it's now an entitlement, just like food stamps and other anti-poverty progams.

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"Social Security was enacted

Submitted by JustAl on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 2:03pm.

"Social Security was enacted to protect seniors from abject poverty"

No, it wasn't, it was enacted as a scheme to use tax dollars to buy permanent alligiance of voters to the democratic party.

Hint, "abject poverty," existed when the Constitution was framed, yet, mysteriously, the clasue about the federal government's role "to prevent seniors from abject poverty," didn't make the cut.

It is a scam, it is contrary to the intent and specifics of the Constitution.  It is a power grab by politicians to make as many people as possible into docile dependents of the government.  It is, in a word. . . Evil.

I do agree however that it is just like food stamps and the other anti-pverty programs, which should be ended immidiately for all of the same reasons.


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Commitments Mean Nothing?

Submitted by NC Boy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 2:20pm.

Motherbelt said, "SS has long ceased to be a retirement benefit funded by contributions"

Since commitments apparently mean nothing to you, how about loaning me $1000?  I promise to pay it back real soon.

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hey lets means test your 401k

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:04pm.

if ya keep work'n then ya don't need it...do ya now.

and when ya die we can give the cash value to someone that really needs it and of course we'll let a politician decide who that lucky recipient is..

roflmao

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by the way

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:15pm.

 

Here's the tax rate ya forced to pay

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

do the math and then tell me what a great deal Uncle Sam gave ya. 

Yep I'm from da government and am here to help... Bwahahahahahaha

 

roflmao

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Crude Krugman

Submitted by Cactus Kurt on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 2:27pm.

Careful Charles.  Paul "Crude" Krugman might "punch you in the kisser" if you disagree with his foolish claims.

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   Everyone who

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 2:40pm.

   Everyone who 'contributes' to SS now has a feeling that they are owed their retirement benefits even if they are millionaires.

  However one augment against universal payouts and for means testing is that not only does the millionaire not need the money but SS should be viewed as a hedge bet against poverty in old age.

  Not every person who spends their working years rich goes into old age rich.  The recent housing bubble and prolonged economic downturn wiped out the lifes work of many rich people.  The coming inflation bomb will wipe out the value of a liftetime of savings and the value of their pensions for many seniors.  I saw that happen during the Carter years when inflation caused basics to go up in price every week.  SS should be viewed as the safety net for seniors who can no longer work and are forced into poverty because of swings of the economic cycles..

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So let me get this straight...

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 2:52pm.

So in order to collect Social Security, I should blow all my money when I'm young enough, so when I hit retirement age I qualify?

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"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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  If that is your choice then

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:01pm.

  If that is your choice then yes.

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Recipe for permanent...

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:07pm.

That sounds like a recipe for a permanent underclass Democrat Party voting block.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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Do you know any old people?

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:10pm.

Do you know any old people?

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Define....

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:17pm.

.....old.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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     Three of my neighbors

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 3:52pm.

     Three of my neighbors are women in their eighties.  All of them lost their husbands at least 15 years ago.    Two of them I never see outside unless someone is there to take them to a doctor.  Social securuity is the income that allows them to stay in their homes.

  Did they save enough when they were young?  Of course not.  But they couldn't have even if they had wanted to.  Average middle income people cannot raise a family and save or invest enough money to cover their financial needs for a peiod of up to forty years.  And remember, saving cash will never work because inflation wipes out the value by the time of your latter elderly years when you need it most.

  If SS or an equivelant is not in place then we will have to go back to the practices of generations before retirement accounts and SS, the younger family members will have to take in their elderly family members and care for them.   That would definitely take some social readjustment.

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MA, life is not fair and

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 4:49pm.

MA, life is not fair and sometimes it hits you square between the eyes and then you die.  These women are of legal age and can make and have made their own decisions.  Perhaps we should have mercy on them, I mean end their suffering and meaningless lives, humanely of course.  Refer to the grasshopper and the ant for how someone should live.  People used to take that fable to heart and understand its implications.

I don't know how old you are but just because a person gets older does not mean they are not able to take care of themselves or work if they need to.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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    You can't be serious

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 5:36pm.

    You can't be serious about killing these people can you?

  Let me know when it's time to come over and 'off' your mother.

  You know, you are stating the exact same position as obama's death panels.

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Well according to you they

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:34pm.

Well according to you they have no life.  And my parents are dead thank you.  I am a realist and you are a socialist.  The government has no business in charity work.  I say let the law of consequences take place and the rest will take care of itself.  Either these people will find help or solve their own problems or they will die.

The mercy comment was for you.

We have lost the art of self reliance or even the art of asking for and receiving charity.  Ask and it will be given to you, Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will open for you.  This was written to show how to enter the kingdom of heaven but like most scripture it also shows the humilty of asking for and recieving charity.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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  SS is not charity .  It

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:58pm.

  SS is not charity

.  It is a financial arrangement conceived by the government.  It is no more charity than the schools in your neighborhood and the roads you drive on.

   I'm not defending SS.  I am saying that elimination of SS cannot be done immediately.  It will take a generation.

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Eliminating SS is like

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:13pm.

Eliminating SS is like pulling off a bandaid, if ya dont pull it off sharply in one stroke it will hurt more and longer.  The way politics works if its not done immediately then it will not get done.  Look how long the USA has been trying to fix SS.

SS is a charity as charity is defined, the only difference is its manditory and run by the government.  Schools and roads are funded locally and have defined long term benefits, in addition most of the time bonds are put before the public and the public decides on whether to fund the bond programs or not.

I dont remember the last time SSI was voted on by the public.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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No SS is not charity. 

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:26pm.

No SS is not charity.  Charity is benevolent giving.

 SS is redistrubution of wealth.  A ponzi scheme.  The deal is while you are young and working if you give to those already retired you will have future workers give you some of their money when you retire.

    But to say just pull the plug on SS is the only way is very short sighted and wrong.  Millions of people who made decisions based on SS being there will be cruelly hurt.

   and it would be political suicide.

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The government will continue

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:44pm.

The government will continue to take care of them as it would because SS is bankrupt, so your argument holds no water.  The only thing changed is that people would realize that it is a Ponzi scheme and the politicians have been cheating us for years.  We could needs test teh people on SS and tell the rest to save for their futures.

Is it cruel, no ... its the reality of teh situation.  We would not be perpetuating teh Ponzi scheme and mortgaging our kids futures.

The people falling through the cracks could rely on a true charity.  We as a people need to rely on ourselves and our families and churches.  You know like people used to do before socilaism became popular.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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Wow

Submitted by JustAl on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 4:52pm.

I see your point MidAmerica. . . middle class folks can't save for retirement. . . but, they can pay for other peoples' retirements just fine . 

Thank all that is holy that we have the courageous govenrment to redistribute wealth for us, because obviously we (like your neighbors, "of course"), can't think for ourselves long term.  Why, if not for those courageous politicians who also selflessly exh\\eimpt themselves from the SS system, we might have to rely on (shudder) families. . . you know like back before the progressive "villiage" replaced the family.

I see your point comrade, because, yes, paying our own way without hefting the bulky dead weight of government would definately be a social readjustment.

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  Well, either you are young

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 5:33pm.

  Well, either you are young or you have ice-water in your veins.  There is no way for anyone except those at the top of the economy to be able to confidently care for themselves in their extreme old age.  No one can prepare for all eventualities.  How long will you live?  Will you have a debilitating illness or accident?  Will inflation wipe out you savings?  Will you have other persons such as a family members to care for even though you yourself are old?    Think you can live normally on a middle income and save enough to cover every eventuality that will come your way by the time you are ninety years old? 

   Are you planning on giving your SS back to the government?

   I'm not saying retirement must come from the government but when people start talking about just ending it they must not realize the misery that would cause.  Stopping SS will require a generation of change to an alternative.

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Generous

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:07pm.

Your a very generous guy.  Especialy with other people's money.  Why don't we just find the median net worth of everyone in the United States, and take from those above the 50% line and redistribute it all to everyone below the 50% line so that everyone is exactly equal.  That sounds pretty fair to me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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  Nice try.   But the

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:13pm.

  Nice try.

  But the question at hand is SS.  We can end it if we want but it can't be done till many years from now.  The people retired now were promised SS and made choices based on that fact.  To suddenly take that away would not only be cruel but morally wrong.

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Im sure you will step up and

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:37pm.

Im sure you will step up and help.  It is not morally wrong as there are other avenues and charities that can help.  Government is not moral and it should not be.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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  A government is moral when

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:02pm.

  In a democracy the government is moral when it's people are.

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LOL, define moral and where

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:16pm.

LOL, define moral and where is morality derived from?  Even God realized government is not moral.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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hhhmmmm OK   in your world

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:31pm.

hhhmmmm OK

  in your world where governments cannot be moral is there any difference between our government and North Korea, Iran, and Cuba?

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Not much.

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:46pm.

Not much.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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The problem isnt being moral

Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 8:06pm.

Weather they are or not is irrelevant. The fed simply cant be,, and it cant be any fairer then life itself

What we need them to be is honest, and just! Morality wont be to far behind.

Seek Truth, Defend Liberty
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The end of a Ponzi scheme is never pretty

Submitted by donabernathy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:23pm.

roflmao

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Re to MidAmerica and Nice Try

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:33pm.

You state above: "The people retired now were promised SS and made choices based on that fact.  To suddenly take that away would not only be cruel but morally wrong."

Earlier in this very thread you stated: "However one argument against universal payouts and for means testing is that not only does the millionare not need the money but SS should be viewed as a hedge bet against poverty in old age."

So which way is it going to be?  Do people get their SS payments as promised or not?  Or is the paying out of SS left up to the whims of the ruling class, based on what someone views as "needed".

So if it's going to be: Each according to their needs and from each according to their abilities, why stop with Social Security?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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   If you don't want means

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:47pm.

   If you don't want means testing and you want SS to be cost nuetral then SS payments will have to be raised very high.  The alternative is simply not give to those people who are using their social security checks to cover their golfing fees.

   You have glossed over what I said about changing the perception of SS from a universal right to a safety net.  I buy car insurance but I hope to never use it.  SS should be viewed that way.  We all hope to be wealthy enough to take care of ourselves but it doesn't always turn out that way.

  

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You have glossed over what I

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:53pm.

You have glossed over what I said about changing the perception of SS from a universal right to a safety net.

And you dont get it, perception will never change or moreover if changed will change again.  Remember the modest program and goals when it started and look to what it has morphed into.  The only logical thing is to kill it and quick in one swoop.  It will not be popular and it will hurt some but life sucks sometimes.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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you must be a libertarian

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:58pm.

you must be a libertarian

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I am an Independent who votes

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 8:24pm.

I am an Independent who votes my Christian beliefs.  I consider myself conservative.  Government cannot be moral, because then whose morals do they use?  I guess we could look to Iran and model our moral government after theirs.  See they say theirs is a moral government.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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Morality

Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 8:34pm.

Good points, Dan The Man 2

And furthermore, looking at moratity from a different vantage point, one could actually argue that it' is immoral to encourage someone to not provide for themselves by insuring a subsistance living in exchange for their political support.

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"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama

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  You vote your Christian

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:23pm.

  You vote your Christian beliefs?

  Pray tell what Christian denomination would vote to take away the money that is sustaining millions of elderly people and tell them to get a job or go live with their kids?

  I'll       say        this         again        reeeal       sloooow         I am not defending the SS program.  I am saying you cannot just change the rules that have been in place all these peoples lives.  That is immoral.

  Not only immoral but politically stupid.

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why can't you vote to change the rules? that is just dumb.

Submitted by porpoiseboy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:40pm.

there will ALWAYS be peeps who have depended on SS and paid into it their whole lives....until someone has the cajones to change the system to something that is actually sustainable.  SS in it's current form is not.  the whole concept that it is up to the govt to take care of an entire age class of peeps as opposed to society ( families, churches, charities, etc ) and themselves by letting them keep the $$$ the govt now takes and let them invest in their own futures.....well to me, that is just crazy.  but if that is what you want govt to do.  vote that way.  i won't and there is NOTHING "not christian" about it.  i think coming up with a plan to pay back peeps over time and timeline to end SS is the wisest.  but will there be pain for someone, somewhere over this?  yep.  but that is inevitable when you have spent like drunken sailors for decades.

Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left

The best social program is a JOB...ronald reagan

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sigh.....   Of course we

Submitted by MidAmerica on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:50pm.

sigh.....

  Of course we can change the rules....

  Nobody is aurguing that it can't be done.

  But you just can't throw the current generation of elderly out on their crippled rears.

  Any politician that promotes that idea will soon be a former politician.   as well they should be.

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If the nation does not have

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:59pm.

If the nation does not have enough money they will and have abandoned the elderly and others dependent on the government.  And after the government has made a compact with them to provide and protects them.  Ever hear of the American Indian?  I guess that is part of the "moral" thing.

BTW I am retired.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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Learn to read, I said stop

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:56pm.

Learn to read, I said stop the SSI program and it might be political suicide so we need someone who cares about only doing the right thing.  The old farts and others who depend on government payments will get their payments.  Its just that the SSI scheme will be exposed for what it is AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE TO COME CLEAN.

Dont get into what Christians do or cant do.  Remember Jesus did not say the government will take care of you, he told other Christians to do so.  If you remember the parable of teh good Samaritain that the established church passed the man on the road, the government did so also and the one who stopped and helped was an individual.  Jesus understood about government and self reliance and the charity of helping others.

Was it immoral for God to create plagues and famine to teach lessons to the people of Israel?  Read your Bible or do you need a Koran?  Should we be as moral as Iran?

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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*

Submitted by Chaitealover on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:18pm.

And then there are those who, having to take care of elderly relatives on a low income when they were young, never had money to save for their own old age. What do we do about them? Chastising them for not saving is not an answer.

Chai

"You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong." Abraham Lincoln
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duplicate post

Submitted by JustAl on Sun, 11/14/2010 - 10:03am.

sorry

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I'm a very young 53 thanks. 

Submitted by JustAl on Sun, 11/14/2010 - 10:04am.

I'm a very young 53 thanks.  Have I saved enough?  Hell no, but it's nobodies problem but mine, I'm already thinking about other lines of work after "retirement" age. Do I think I should get my money back out of SS, Hell yes, remember those little letters you get telling you about your estimated "benefit"  if that isn't a retirement account statement I don't know what is. Logic does not equate to "ice water."  But the absence of logic is the definiton of hell.

See my first post in this thread.  There is and always has been a way to terminate this cancer without endangering current recipients.  The money saved by getting the federal government out of things they were never intended to do is more than enough.  Add to my previous list the so called "war on drugs", elimination of the DEA and yet more billions become available.

How can anyone, keep a straight face and say the federal government, trillions of dollars in the red, who's very policies create the inflation you refered to, is not the single worst entitiy to handle either retirement accounts or a charity, is beyond me.

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I saw that happen during the

Submitted by dscott on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:22pm.

I saw that happen during the Carter years when inflation caused basics to go up in price every week.  SS should be viewed as the safety net for seniors who can no longer work and are forced into poverty because of swings of the economic cycles..

I grew up during the Carter era and as much as I would like to apply that sentiment I can't shake the problem with showing a whole bunch of people they can blow all their savings, make no effort to provide for themselves and then expect society to support them.   Oh that's right, that's the problem we have been fighting with Welfare for 50+ years.      The problem with your idea aside from the obvious catering to people sponging off society is that with a modest savings and investment strategy your Carter high inflation scenario would not be a problem.   A person (age 18)  putting $50 a month into a stock index fund (DOW or S&P 500) would be a millionaire by age 55.  Now if you believe as I do that people should be responsible for their future as contributors to society and not fob off their responsibilities on others then Social Security obviously has been GROSSLY mishandled.   IF the FICA payroll tax had have been invested like a pension fund would do, then NO ONE would be talking about any problems with SS or Medicare for that matter.     So this context puts us on the road to the proper solution and not the crisis oriented NON SOLUTION politicians have repeatedly bamboozled the taxpayers with.  If you insist that a segment of the population can't be trusted to save and invest and thus you force a payroll tax on them (FICA) then at least have the decency to properly invest the money so they will have something.   The problem is NOT the senior citizens, its not their age or how long they live, the PROBLEM IS THE THIEVING POLITICIANS WHO STOLE OUR MONEY AND NOW HAVE THE NERVE TO SAY THEY HAVE TO RAISE TAXES, RAISE THE RETIREMENT AGE SO AS TO GIP US OUT OF OUR RETIREMENT INCOME.    I say NO AND HELL NO.   I could have retired a millionaire at age 55 but for the theft of MY MONEY by THIEVING POLITICIANS!!!!!  When you collect money under the guise of FICA and then spend it on everything else that qualifies as a financial fraud, a PONZI scheme.     Fortunately, I did not leave my fate in their clumsy, thieving hands, I have a 401k plan, I put money away in index funds and I made diversified investments, I will retire by age 62 1/2 to enjoy my statistical life expectancy of 75.4 years, i.e. 13 years as a senior citizen spending money, touring the country in my RV and STILL leave something for my kids or at least my wife.         
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
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I say spend my kids

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:35pm.

I say spend my kids inheritance now, if they need money then I decide whether or not they deserve help.  I do help my kids and give them the tools and help they need to make it in the world.

I too am about to embark on a tour of the USA as soon as my wife retires in February and we find an RV that wont bankrupt us.  Actually I am thinking of making one from scratch.  That way I get to make my floorplan and ammenities and hopefully save a few bucks.  I am looking at the Aqua Casa or similar.

Why a boat, it will double as an RV on land and still give me the option to be on water.  Its small but hey how much room do two people need?

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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You're a brave man, that's

Submitted by dscott on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:46pm.

You're a brave man, that's too small for me.  People need their space, the older you get the more crotchety you get therefore you need at least 4 ft between you and the next person.  That's just enough to miss being hit by a cane.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
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And the effects multiply . . . .

Submitted by NC Boy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 5:17pm.

People would need to form (and maintain) stable relationships and raise children with their own future support in mind. This would change much about how we handle ourselves and our family decisions.  Selfishness would cost people in a major way.  Think educational results and work ethic might soar?  Think the birthrate might go up to a figure that would maintain us as a stable country?  I do.

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Its been a long time since I

Submitted by juslen on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:21pm.

Its been a long time since I was last on the Newsbusters site. I have to say that many of the comments I have been reading have been a breath of fresh air. In the past when i would come here people were still touting tired old talking points from the right. Even today there are Repulicans who believe that Social Security is a social contract with the people and cannot be touched or changed. But today.. more people are starting to aknowledge that compassionate consevatism died with George W. Bush and rightly so. Instead we have to return the the basic principles of common sense and responisiblity. I'm 28 years old and I would forgo the the last 12 years of my working life paying into Social Security if the goernment simply said "keep your 6.2% earnings that we take for SS but you will get nothing at age 65 (or whatever the retirement age is at the time)

 

I could turn that 6.2% into 200k dollars if invested properly. And that would be more than enough to suplement my retirement when added to an addition 6% of savings and investments over the course of my working life. Means testing and raising the reitirement age are options if we wish to sustain SS for those 50 and older. But sooner or later we have to phase it out. And since I will get nothing when I retire, at least lift my tax burden.

 

Looking at my paystub.. I have paid out nearly 1500 in FICA taxes for Social Security alone. And that is only after 7 months of working at my current job. So roughly 2k dollar per year in taxes just on the employee side contributions and not counting the employer side match of 6.2% as well. So roughtly after 7 months of work, the govenrment has robbed me of 4k dollars.

Considering investments in the stock market have averaged over 7% gains over the course of the last 80+ years with a contribution of 4k dollars per year.. starting from 0 and working for the next 27 years at 5% interest I would have close to 230k dollars by the time I retire. And that is with a meager 4k dollar contribution per year. Get the government off my back and I would easily be able to afford 8k dollars per year giving me over 450k dollars at age 65.

Then once you consider the fact that the government will take 30% of that right away and that inflation will devalue your dollars in the end anyways, the government already scewed over people that wish to invest and save rather than be taxed and rely on government handouts.

even the godless worship
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I agree that NB comments are improving

Submitted by NC Boy on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 7:08pm.

I'm hopeful that Conservatives are ready to do the job and not just get their pleasure from throwing bombs at liberals. Great to hear a young guy like you thinking this way. I'm on the other end (near Social Security) and am willing to sacrifice to help get my kids and grandkids OUT OF THIS MESS!

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Justlen.....As an old man who has been collecting

Submitted by Rush Fan on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 11:11pm.

Social Security for a number of years, I admire your willingness to forgo the government retirement Social Security system. Sadly, it is going to take your continued payment of FICA earnings to pay for not only my SS payments each month (I plan on living to at least 100), but all the other retireees and near retirees.  You can't opt out of making payments even if you were allowed.

That is the problem with a government redistribution welfare system (I plan on receiving more than I put in). Once the government begins taking your money, it never stops.

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The government will resist

Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 11:54pm.

The government will resist efforts to stop SS, however they may still get the money and stop payments.  Never ever count the government out.

Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark
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As Krauthammer accurately

Submitted by ckc1227 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 6:02pm.

As Krauthammer accurately noted, when Social Security was enacted, the intention wasn't that people would spend one third of their lives receiving benefits. Quite the contrary, as life expectancy was only 57 back then, the original equations assumed most people would die before ever receiving one penny.

Which made it an even bigger scam back then than it is today.


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Charles, you are the MAN

Submitted by cemoto78 on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 8:32pm.

Anytime I get the opportunity to listen to what Charles says makes me all the much wiser. Here is a guy that should be running the country rather than those dorks in there now. Common sense and brilliance all wrapped in one nice package. Thank you Charles, I am so glad you are on our side.
 

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cemoto78.......I concur. Charles not only has insights that

Submitted by Rush Fan on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 9:57pm.

far surpass the Washington elite, but he has the ability to communicate and explain those insights and other complex problems in a clear, precise manner. I wish there were more like him.

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I was just looking over

Submitted by dscott on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 9:10pm.

I was just looking over tables 7 and 8 in the National Vital Stats.

Raising the retirement age is going to disproportionately negatively impact African American Males significantly and as a general rule one shouldn't engage in this type of cut when people are putting their money into a program expecting some kind of return.  Black Male life expectancy is 70 even for a person born this century.  That's simply not cricket. 

 

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
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dscott.....That is a sad statistic. If more blacks focused on

Submitted by Rush Fan on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 10:55pm.

taking care of themselves, rather than expecting the Democrat Party or the government to take care of them, their health, welfare and living conditions would improve considerably.  It's the lack of emphasis on education in the Black community that is creating this dire situation for Blacks, particularly Black males.

The graduation rates among blacks has continued to fall over the years. In the latest report, the Schott Foundation reveals that:

  • the overall 2007/8 graduation rate for Black males in the U.S. was only 47 percent.
  • New York City, the district with the nation's highest enrollment of Black students, only graduates 28 percent of its Black male students
  • The subsequent path into poverty, crime, and a shorter life span for Black males should come as no surprise.
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    Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.

    Submitted by dscott on Sun, 11/14/2010 - 11:24pm.

    President I am in charge and I won, fumbled the ball badly while he was managing the Annenberg Grant for Chicago Schools.  He and his buddy Bill Ayers blew $50 million supposedly on education with zero to show for it.  What this demonstrates is the total failure of liberal Black leadership to help their own people when they play Group Politics.  When the Obamas, Sharptons and Jacksons of the world are looked upon for leadership they double talk their own people, spout populist slogans and cry victimhood, the result is failure.

    It's long past time to put aside what doesn't work.  It's time to be an American, NOT an African American.  There is only one culture, that isthe  American Culture, NOT the African American culture.  It's time to assimilate.   I am not a male American, I am not a white American, and I am not an ethnic American, I am an American, period.  Everyone who practices group politics by separating themselves from the whole and thereby refusing to assimilate is discriminating against themselves.  We have one law and one people, live by them and succeed, reject them and fail. 

    Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
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    I couldn't agree with you more. That is why I used the

    Submitted by Rush Fan on Wed, 11/17/2010 - 1:49am.

    descriptive word Black, rather than African American. I refuse to describe someone by inserting a prefix, such as African, Hispanic, etc. before American.

    I find it unimaginable that a former unforgiving terrorist, such as Bill Ayers, could be described as a "Distinguished" Professor of Education.

    President Obama cares so much about the education of Black youth, that, if you recall, he terminated the very successful Washington D. C. school voucher program shortly after he took office, a payback to the teacher's union.

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    I'm not against raising the

    Submitted by ampul man on Sun, 11/14/2010 - 7:17am.

    I'm not against raising the retirement age to reflect real-world conditions, but when I retired, it wasn't fashionable to be an executive well into your sixties or beyond.

    When companies found out they could trade-in their oldtimers, for less expensive younger models, they suddenly developed a youth culture.

    Things were a lot better then (read:  there were jobs, albeit lesser in stature, to go to).

    I hope the (new) House will have the strength to push for meaningful legislation, and with the support of the people, can influence the Senate and the President to do the right thing.

    CNN, the Clinton News Network---Bill decides; Hill reports

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