Joy Behar and Andrew Sullivan Attack Sarah Palin: Is Trig Her Son?

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Joy Behar and Andrew Sullivan Attack Sarah Palin: Is Trig Her Son?

By Noel Sheppard (Bio | Archive)
Tue, 12/08/2009 - 10:55 ET

Palin Derangement Syndrome was on full display Monday evening when HLN's Joy Behar invited the Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan on to trash the former Governor of Alaska.

At issue fully fifteen months after Sarah Palin was thrust into the limelight as John McCain's running mate was whether or not Trig is actually her son.

Behar began the segment: "Sarah Palin may have been coy on the Oprah Show about a possible White House run in 2012. But new poll numbers show she`s a contender. Oy."

This evoked laughter from crew members on the set.

Behar then introduced her guest, and after saying Palin's "people are evil and nasty," the discussion immediately went to the former Governor's mentally handicapped child (video embedded below the fold with transcript, h/t Story Balloon):

Story Continues Below Ad ↓

Sarah Palin may have been coy on the Oprah Show about a possible White House run in 2012. But new poll numbers show she`s a contender. Oy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY: Have you thought about running for president of the United States in 2012? Have you just thought about it?
PALIN: It`s not on my radar screen right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP
JOY BEHAR, HOST: OK, Sarah Palin may have been coy on the Oprah Show about a possible White House run in 2012. But new poll numbers show she`s a contender. Oy. (Laughter on the set). But while some are coming into the big tent, others are leaving. More and more are saying the right is wrong. Andrew Sullivan Senior Editor at the Atlantic. And author of the conservative sol is one of them. Ok, welcome to the show, Andrew.
ANDREW SULLIVAN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: Levi who was just on, he basically indicates and implies that he has a lot on Sarah Palin. Do you think there are other skeletons in her closet?
SULLIVAN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You do?
SULLIVAN: I do. I think that the story of Sarah Palin has yet to be told.
BEHAR: The real story.
SULLIVAN: I think this book that she produced is essentially a work of magical realism. I don`t think she has much relationship with reality. I don`t think she has much relationship with reality. And I think at some point, if journalists do their job and if brave people stand up and tell the truth, we will find out who Sarah Palin really is. And we currently don`t know
BEHAR: Well her people are evil and nasty. They are not nice people. They send me nasty mail and everybody else who talks about it. Anything negative about Sarah Palin, they get hit with this stuff. You know.
SULLIVAN: Well, she tried -- she wanted to sue me for even asking questions. Factual questions. I`m not interested in whether she`s a good or bad person. I`m not interested in whether they are evil people around her. I`m interested in truth. What is the truth about this person who was put on the national ticket, having not been vetted in any way, and in which, the press was shut out from having real interaction with her during the campaign and now, she produces a back which is not fact-checked, not vetted, full of obvious errors -
BEHAR: Why is that?
SULLIVAN: That Harper Collins, a major publication has put out without any fact checking what so ever in order to make money. I find the whole thing just bizarre. I find the whole thing of a governor quitting in her first term when she wants to have a career, bizarre. There are so many bizarre questions including this extraordinary story of the birth of Trig, which is, on a basis, extraordinarily hard to believe the way she`s told it. Maybe there is some truth there that we don`t know fully know. Or she`s confusing --
BEHAR: What do you mean the way she`s told it? She gave birth to the baby --
SULLIVAN: You just don`t behave that way? No one behave that way.
BEHAR: Which way.
SULLIVAN: No one is eight months pregnant, thousands of miles away from home, as she says, in a hotel room in Dallas.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
SULLIVAN: With a special needs child. Wakes up, bolt right up in bed, has a strange sensation low in her belly and tells the "Anchorage Daily News" that her water broke and doesn`t go to the hospital. No one does that.
BEHAR: Oh that`s a very interesting point.
SULLIVAN: Let alone, then give a speech, in her own book she says she gives a speech while she`s having contractions. She tells a joke in the speech.
BEHAR: I see.
SULLIVAN: She says, big laughs, more contractions.
BEHAR: Is no one investigating this? She`s getting a pass on a lot of things.
SULLIVAN: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) media didn`t do any investigations to the plausibility of this story. But then she gets on two airplanes back to Alaska in labor and the "Anchorage Daily News" -
BEHAR: Now how do you -
SULLIVAN: This is all in the public record, not me.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
SULLIVAN: The Anchorage Daily News asked the flight attendants, well goodness, how did you let a woman eight months pregnant, whose water has broken according to her, who is experiencing contractions according to her on the place. An Alaska Airline spokeswoman says they were not aware she was pregnant.
BEHAR: So are you saying there`s some kind of cover up?
SULLIVAN: I have no idea, Joy.
BEHAR: So you`re just putting these pieces together.
SULLIVAN: I have no idea. I`ve been trying to make -
BEHAR: Alleging to -
SULLIVAN: I`m alleging anything.
BEHAR: Conjecturing -
SULLIVAN: No, I`m not. Not even conjecturing.
BEHAR: What are you?
SULLIVAN: I am simply saying I cannot believe the story that she`s told.
BEHAR: It just doesn`t make sense to you.
SULLIVAN: Would someone please make sense of this story for me? I mean, that`s all I`m saying. I`ve read this book, I`ve gone out of my mind trying to understand the story. It does not make any sense. I believe in Judge Judy in a way. If it doesn`t make sense, it isn`t true.
BEHAR: If the glove doesn`t fit - you must acquit. Not that?
SULLIVAN: Judge Judy, who knows how to judge
BEHAR: Whether someone`s telling the truth or not
SULLIVAN: Even when -- if you just take a few steps back and say, would you do this. Does this make sense you know?
BEHAR: Look at the way they did the James Frye book, A Million Little Pieces - he was humiliated on Oprah because it was a memoire wasn`t true. And yet this book just slides through.
SULLIVAN: I think it`s Oprah Winfrey`s second Million Little Pieces disaster and will become so over time.
BEHAR: A ha.
SULLIVAN: I think the story is just beginning, Joy.
BEHAR: But the thing about her though is that she could be a contender for the presidency. I mean, she was a heartbeat away the last time and it could happen again.
SULLIVAN: John McCain was pooh-poohing people who said we`re not attacking her. We`re not attacking her. The press is doing our job. Our job is to ask questions. Her job is to answer them. Answer them. Don`t run away. Don`t forbid any press conference conferences. You sit down and answer your toughest critic did. Like Margaret Thatcher did. Like real feminist do who don`t accept double standards in politics. Who go out there and face their opponents and tackle the issues and talk about factual questions.
BEHAR: Well, that`s not happening with her.
SULLIVAN: Why?
BEHAR: Because she`s - she`s not legitimate that`s why -- because she`s not legit.
SULLIVAN: She`s not legitimate and yet the leader of the Republican party.
BEHAR: Well then they better get their act together over there.
SULLIVAN: No but the more she`s criticized the more they love her.
BEHAR: I know, I know. She`s the underdog. They identify. It`s a psychological thing.
SULLIVAN: Joy, I am an old fashioned conservative as much as I really think taxes are too high. I think spending is way out of control. I`d like to balance the budget, I would like to budget our wars, I would like to actually prepare for wars before we invade countries. I believe in a conservatism that is not as crazy as these people are. And we have to fight and take the Republican Party back or take the conservative movement back from these, well, nutcases in some respect.

Honestly, the hatred the Left has for this woman and her family is breathtaking.

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.

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Good grief!

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:01 ET by jon_torlin

They really never let anything go anymore, especially when it's beaten to death!

-Jon

OK, now I'm really mad

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:16 ET by TexasMom0517

Never have such two stupid, crude people been allowed to pollute the airwaves. The next time Andrew Sullivan's water breaks, he can speak to the issue of having contractions. Been there, done that, and this jacka$$ does not know what he's talking about. Joy Behar is as common as pig tracks around the barn and it's beyond me why Barbara Walters ever put her on television, unless it's to say the crude things that Ms. Walters would like to say, but cannot and preserve her reputation. That these are the same people who get absolutely CRAZED when Obama's lack of a certified birth certificate is questioned, strikes me as hysterically funny. Please, someone, tell me what do we really know about Obama's background- except for what he and his ghostwriter put into his two books?

They will never forgive her

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:09 ET by Hoosier Daddy

They will never forgive her for not killing her baby.

One Big A$$ Mistake, America

...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 12:14 ET by Eugenia

Bingo, Hoosier. She's a constant reminder to them of their Down Syndrome babies they killed. The conscience is a tricky thing, isn't it?

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
-- GK Chesterton

Not just the Downs babies

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 16:16 ET by Hoosier Daddy

Not just the Downs babies but the "inconvenient" babies as well. My ex-wife did that before we met. She didn't want to marry the guy she was doing but didn't want to give him up so the baby had to go. She had the occasional nightmare about the experience.

One of my friends has a special child. Her daughter was born with Cornelia DeLang (sp?) syndrome. Kayla is a darling girl who looks quite elfin. If her mother were not a Christian she likely would not have seen the light of day.

One Big A$$ Mistake, America

Cornelia de Lange

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 17:51 ET by stratman

Cornelia de Lange Syndrome

Thank you for posting this and helping me learn about this syndrome.

The pictures of the children on the website are indeed elfin and beautiful in spirit.

Here's another site. It

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 18:32 ET by Hoosier Daddy

Here's another site. It contains a link to Kayla's story but I'm not sure it still works.

http://www.bridges4kids.org/Disabilities/CorneliaDeLange.html

One Big A$$ Mistake, America

Hoosier: Thanks. There

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 22:30 ET by stratman

Hoosier:

Thanks.

There are a couple of links for Kayla but they no longer work. :-(

This link is still

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 11:39 ET by Hoosier Daddy

This link is still live:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/29529784.html

One Big A$$ Mistake, America

Thank you!

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 15:29 ET by stratman

Thank you!

You're welcome. One

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 18:36 ET by Hoosier Daddy

You're welcome.

One Big A$$ Mistake, America

She's Disgusting!

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 15:58 ET by northone

Joy Behar is a hate-filled, empty-headed bitch. CNN must be so very proud to have her as part of the family.

Noel, you get this one

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 00:12 ET by Icarus

Noel, you get this one wrong. Andrew Sullivan wasn't questioning whether Trig is really Sarah Palin's son. Rather, Sullivan was mocking Palin's book, especially the part of the book about Palin going into labor. Sullivan doesn't like Palin's book. That's what he was saying, without any suggestion whatsoever that Trig isn't really Sarah's son.

Wrong

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 00:30 ET by stratman

You must have sun stroke from flying too close to Noel's star-like presence.

Other observations: You've been a member for 3 years to the day with 14 other posts besides this current one. Not only is your post oddly placed in the thread, your engine flame's out on admonishing the author.

A sleeper has awoken?

Andrew Sullivan

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 00:57 ET by Icarus

I watched the whole interview, and it was pretty obvious Sullivan wasn't even thinking about that whole "Trig isn't really Sarah's kid" conspiracy. Rather he just found Palin's version of her going into labor, as found in her book, to be ridiculous and unbelievable.

Oh, stratman, and you noticed my record here on this site. I'm Icarus, or Icky for short. Nice to meet ya. I gots a friend on a message board that links to NB a lot. Sometimes, I just got to comment. One time, I actually did strike up a conversation with the author of a post here at NB. It was pretty cool.

SULLIVAN: The Anchorage

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 02:56 ET by stratman

SULLIVAN: The Anchorage Daily News asked the flight attendants, well goodness, how did you let a woman eight months pregnant, whose water has broken according to her, who is experiencing contractions according to her on the place. An Alaska Airline spokeswoman says they were not aware she was pregnant.

Since we can't read Sullivan's mind, his words will have to suffice. Sullivan is introducing that Palin was not pregnant. Yes, he shrouds it in the banality of "just wondering if the story fits" but that is the modus operandi of agitators today. Float a fable, let the public fill the vacuum, agitprop achieved, no retractions or corrections necessary.

Also disingenuous was the comment about no one investigating these rumours. Risable, rewarmed trash. No one in modern politics has been held to such scrutiny and vile trashing as Palin. Numerous "reporters" worked every angle to find dirt on her, many reporting hearsay without corroboration rather than keep their yaps shut or else admit Palin was about as "clean" as anyone gets, especially for a politician of her status.

My thought is that people like Behar and Sullivan think Palin looks down on them and therefore despise her. Fear, projection, transference, whatever - I don't care from where it springs, I'm not their parent, their clergy or their analyst. From my reading and media scrutiny, it is the Behar's and Sullivan's who are judgemental, condescending and destructive, not Palin. And it looks like a sizable portion of America recognizes this as well.

The word "ridiculous" did not appear in the text quoted by Noel. I did not watch the video. If the word "ridiculous" was not used in the video, then your use of the word is an indicator of your position with respect to Palin.

Andrew Sullivan

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 03:19 ET by Icarus

I used the word "ridiculous" because, from the interview, it was obvious that that's what Sullivan feels Palin's book is, especially the section of the book where Palin talks about going into labor. (Not my opinion, but Sullivan's.) Again, Sullivan is in no way introducing a theory about Trig not being Sarah's baby. Instead, he is retelling the story about Palin going into labor, as it is found in her book, and then mocking it.

Sullivan doesn't doubt that Trig is Sarah's baby, but rather he doubts the details of her story in her book. He doubts that a woman having contractions would be giving a speech and then flying home on a plane instead of going to the hospitial. Sullivan is essientially accusing Palin of lying, but not about the parentage of Trig.

Bravo, strat...

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 03:31 ET by Jer

I love an argument with a perfect mixture of logic and eloquence and you again prove to be the master of both.

Flattery aside, I respectfully disagree with your finale`. Sullivan may have never uttered the word "ridiculous", but the words and phrases he did use must surely permit its employment to fairly describe his sentiments: "no relationship with reality" "bizarre" "no one does that" "it does not make any sense".

Jer

Andrew Sullivan 180

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 04:23 ET by Icarus

It appears that I may have to stand corrected on Sullivan's doubting that Trig isn't Sarah's baby. While the interview with Behar isn't itself evidence that Sullivan believes such a thing, his past writings (which I was unaware of before tonight) suggest that he does doubt Trig's parentage.

I didn't know that Sullivan was one of those bloggers from 2008 that gave legitimacy to that rumor. Or at least, he is a little too obsessed with Palin's pregnancy that any person should be. See: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/palins-medi...

Boo Sullivan.

Icarus...

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 04:32 ET by Jer

I've just tried to stay above--or away from--the Palin fray. I said a year ago that I thought she was a breath of fresh air for the Republican party. I feel the same way today.

My problem is with her politics--not her personality or anything else.

Jer

Jer: Thanks for the

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 18:22 ET by stratman

Jer:

Thanks for the compliment. I still think word choice can be a window into the mind of the individual. Example - look at my post:

Banality
Agitators
Risable, rewarmed trash
Vile

While this may not be hard evidence of mindset or intent in your arena - the US legal system - it certainly has weight in mine.

Icarus:

Hat tip to you for policing your own post. I respect that.

I have discussed this topic in 2008 when it first came up. Instead of repeating it, see this link and this link. Behar and Sullivan are not physicians. As such, they should consult experts before shooting from the hip. Palin's story is entirely plausible. Understanding the mechanisms of and literature on Labor and Delivery reveals a consistent, believable history of events.

The issue really isn't whether Palin is genuine, for there is hardly a factual, corroborated instance contrary to this or other moments in her life that we know of. The real issue is how the Palin Haters and Left of centers can smear Palin as bloodsport and for political gain.

Sullivan rehashes the rumours from over a year ago knowing full well humans have short memories and can be biased when a real or fictitious vacuum of knowledge exists. And people may swallow a more fantastical lie hook, line and sinker than a minnow-sized one, especially if the bias is to their liking or there is the imprimatur of authority attached.

What Behar and Sullivan engaged in was yellow journalism of the repugnant, crude hack variety. A Liars Convention has more truthfulness than these two.

As I scan your list of

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 19:03 ET by Jer

As I scan your list of words, I'm inclined to add "passion" as a third ingredient to the mixture of "logic" and "eloquence" in your earlier post. [It was the "risable, rewarmed trash" phrase that clinched it].

While I don't contest your assertion that word choice can be a window into the mind of the author, I disagree that the connection is demanded or appropriate in this instance--although it may very well have reflected Icarus' opinion at the time he posted it. The synonymous language which Sullivan employed clearly warrants an inference that he (Sullivan) found Palin's version "ridiculous" despite the absence of that particular word in the transcript, and as such would be indeterminative and irrelevant in establishing animus on the part of Icarus.

Just my opinion of course.

Jer

My word selection may

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 20:56 ET by stratman

My word selection may reveal I am angered by the way the Media treated Palin, either as a human being, a woman, or as a Conservative. In fact it is all three reasons. Heck, I even had compassion for Hillary (and Bill) when she was unfairly attacked during the Primaries by her own peeps. And I am no Clinton fan by a long stretch.

What is your opinion about Sullivan's innuendo now that you've had a chance to read my links?

strat...

Thu, 12/10/2009 - 22:17 ET by Jer

Sorry for the abbreviated post. Time constraints.

Innuendo journalism is repellent, and particularly so when it involves issues not even peripherally related to policy or governance. I suppose it can be argued that Palin's behavior during the pregnancy raises appropriate questions concerning her judgment, but that's the same tedious, ersatz rationale routinely trotted out to justifjy unrestrained intrusions into the personal lives of those the media places in their crosshairs.

I guess Sullivan would counter by insisting his reporting had to be largely inferential because of Palin's failure to address the questions directly as evidenced by her refusal to hold news conferences during her campaign. Such claims ring hollow with me.

Quick technical/medical query: How would the Down-Syndrome condition of the fetus, and the mild contractions Palin apparently was experiencing, impact the analysis and opinions you expressed in your post last September--and especially in relation to the advisability of long distance travel at that stage of the pregnancy? I know you addressed the fluid leakage question, but I don't recall seeing anything about those other factors. Could be mistaken. I need to reread your comments.

Jer

Trisomy 21 babies may have

Fri, 12/11/2009 - 00:38 ET by stratman

Trisomy 21 babies may have problems with premature birth, and problems with cardiac and GI anomalies that could endanger them in the postpartum period. In utero ultrasound may discover these defects and facilitate medical help to maintain the viability of the baby. Certainly physical examination, diagnostic testing and observation performed postpartum are essential.

The bottomline is that a Down's Syndrome baby may have a "normal" delivery and newborn care. It depends on the individual baby.

The links I listed do discuss effective vs. ineffective contractions, a "fluid" leak, travel/flying and working while pregnant.

I do not know any more about Palin's pregnancy, labor and delivery than I did in 2008. My opinion is unchanged without additional data.

I think the singular relavent issue is the question of judgement/risk aversion. The decisions Palin made in concert with her physician should be accepted as potentially unnecessary (there were hospitals where she was at at the time of the "leak") though calculated risk (see my links) for the situation until proven otherwise.

I have several anecdotes on the toughness of women enduring labor and delivery but will save them for when we're grilling up something Bama'licious on your barbecue.

strat...

Fri, 12/11/2009 - 01:28 ET by MrShy

Sorry for the abbreviated post. Time constraints. I have the computer repair man here, and he lets me back on my computer once every half hour for one intellectually honest NB post.

Jer

MrShy

Fri, 12/11/2009 - 08:43 ET by Jer

Serious question:

Regarding the repeated references to the computer service which I posted about some weeks ago, are you simply engaging in good-natured kidding, or are you implying that I was somehow dishonest about it [an accusation that has been leveled in the past]. If the former, I don't really have a problem with the kidding--although I'm not sure what it's based upon--but, if the latter, I do have a problem, because nothing I had posted in connection with the computer servicing was inaccurate.

Looking forward to your response. Thanks.

Jer

for these idiots...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:13 ET by NDanielson

perhaps the Governor should remind the clowns that she hasn't spent over a million dollars to hide Trig's birth certificate.

N DANIELSON...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 12:30 ET by danybhoy

Nice shot! Top shelf stuff, & it's true.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

Zing!

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 17:58 ET by stratman

Wow. Agree. So much encapsulated with an economy of words. Brass ring.

Definitely should be a NewsBusted joke and well worth, IIRC, the $50 they pay for submissions that are used.

Green with envy ...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:18 ET by metaphorsbwithu

Can these women make it any clearer how jealous they are of Sarah Palin?

Can the reasons why be any more obvious?

metaphorsbwithu

Envy - nailed it, mbwu

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 15:52 ET by BO STINKS

The photo in the article is so beautiful. One can just see the love of God, each other and their children shining from their eyes. How psycho/sick are these people? They hate anyone who has what they don't and never will have - that kind of love.

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

BEHAR: So are you saying

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:25 ET by motherbelt

BEHAR: So are you saying there`s some kind of cover up?

SULLIVAN: I have no idea, Joy.

Well, isn't that brave, Andrew. You're just innocently asking questions.

Come on, Andrew, man up!! You want to say something, say it!! Say you think Trig isn't her son. Oh and while you're at it, why don't you throw in that "fact" that someone else brought up, that Down syndrom is a well-known result of incest!!!

I'm sick to death of that tactic from liberals. Oh, I forgot...Sullivan is supposed to be a conservative. HAHAHAHA!

I can almost tolerate the stupidity from Behar; I know she's not the brightest light on the string. But Sullivan is supposed to be smart and intellectual.

What a deplorable person.

I don't know any of the

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 11:32 ET by balboa

I don't know any of the details around Trig, so I can't speak to the veracity of what Sullivan is saying.

But I don't like it either when pundits say they're not claiming anything, just stating questions. It's what makes Beck annoying, too. If you don't believe Palin's story, just say that.

translation

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 12:05 ET by Candance Moore

Oh no! There's an obvious example of PDS that even I can't deny! Must quickly mention a random conservative to play moral equivalence!

Let's see:

Beck checks and double checks his information. It is a fact that Van Jones signed a truther petition. It is a fact that a convicted criminal attended the state dinner last week. It is an irrefutable fact that Andy Stern's name appears countless times in the White House visitor log.

And even when presenting these facts, Beck routinely asks liberals to refute them. The questions Beck asks are, upon presenting a series of facts, "how do the Democrats explain this?"

Asking how truthers and criminals end up in the White House > asking if Sarah Palin really had a baby.

Did he check and

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 12:28 ET by balboa

Did he check and double-check when he said "I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem"? Or when he said "You have the artwork of Mussolini there, here in New York at Rockefeller Plaza"?

Opinion Bal

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 13:15 ET by general company

Little different from stating quasi assumptions about someones kid,,no? But please continue,,,,,

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Mind Reader

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 14:09 ET by Utherpend

Remember guys Balboa is with these people on a daily basis and knows what they are thinking.

"For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security."

It's similar. "I'm not

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 16:29 ET by balboa

It's similar. "I'm not saying.." vs. "I'm just asking the question."

Hey Balboa

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 18:26 ET by miss911ninja

Glenn Beck has aired an audio tape of Obama calling his grandmother "a typical white person" because she was apprehensive about encountering black strangers on the street. And it's a fact that Obama attended a black separatist church for twenty years until political expediency forced him to leave.

It is a fact that in Rockefeller Plaza there are reliefs which contain symbols of Communism and a figure who represents Mussolini.

Be warned balboa: We at NB will not let you get away with mindless postings like the one above.

"ninja", Obama saying his

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 18:30 ET by balboa

"ninja", Obama saying his grandmother a "typical white person" is hardly evidence enough to jump to "Obama hates white people." Neither is his church.

Plus I'd like to see these reliefs and symbols.

But I am impressed with your stern warning...

Bal I don't beleive Beck

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 18:37 ET by Radical1979

Bal I don't beleive Beck said Obama hates white people. He said Obama has a problem with white people and is racist.

When you sit in attendance at a church for 20 years whose minister vilifies white people it's a safe assumption that you agree with his beliefs.

Twenty Years Of Vilification

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 22:58 ET by miss911ninja

Actually Rad, Glenn did say he suspected B.O. might have a deep seated hatred for white people, because of the vilification of whites that he was exposed to for twenty years. And of course you're right. It's safe to assume that he agreed with what he was hearing. We don't even need to assume. We can conclude he agreed, or he wouldn't have continued to show up.

Black Separatist

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 18:56 ET by miss911ninja

For twenty years Obama sat in a church where Reverend Jeremiah Wright spewed anti-white hatred and stirred up trouble and distrust, like claiming that the AIDS virus was created in the laboratory by white men to wipe out the black population. Obama once called Reverend Wright his "spiritual advisor." I think it's safe to say that Obama was completely in agreement with the "spirit" of that church, which was based on hatred of whites. What is it about black separatism that you don't understand? The congregation wanted nothing to do with whites. And Obama's comment about his grandmother being a "typical white person" revealed his general contempt for the white race.

If you'd like to see the reliefs which include Communist symbols--the hammer and cicyl--then I suggest you search online. There may or may not be images there, but I saw the reliefs on Glenn's TV show. They do exist.

TRINITY UNITED...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:06 ET by danybhoy

miss911ninja,

Obama agreed with what was being said at Trinity United before he ever sat his a$$ down in that church. He was down with Rev.Wright the whole time. He also has had trouble finding a new church because, I think, he can't go to the type of church he wants to attend for political reasons. He cannot go back into black liberation theology untill he's done with the voters.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

Golf Liberation

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:47 ET by miss911ninja

I've been thinking the same thing! If he had to choose a church with a benevolent minister and a nice polite mixed race congregation, he'd be just miserable sitting there every Sunday. Better to just go play golf!

Do you know anything about

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:09 ET by balboa

Do you know anything about those pieces of art? That had to have been one of Beck's most moronic rants I've ever heard. Ridiculous.

BECK...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:16 ET by danybhoy

bal,

Are you talking about his art or the art around Mannhattan that he sees near Radio City? If he is talking about it on his TV show, I did'nt see it today.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

From what I can tell this

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:19 ET by balboa

From what I can tell this was back in September when he suddenly decided he saw communism at in the art built into 30 Rock's architecture.

BAL...

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:31 ET by danybhoy

Ok, I have heard him talk about that. Having not seen the art in question, I will assume that there may be something to what he is saying. I will assume that Beck looked into who did the artwork in question, looked into their history, looked at the art itself, & then came to his view.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

There is something, if

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:41 ET by balboa

There is something, if you're paranoid, if you're looking to streeeeeeeetch really far, or if you're trying to make the biggest, scariest SOMETHING out of a small mound of nothing.

Thus, Beck. ;-)

You can keep the carvings

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:53 ET by general company

Beck sure as heck aint wrong about Obamas cabinet and czar's, and just about everyone this guy ever hung out with. Or do all libs hang out with tax cheats, truthers, commies, Mao admires, climate alarmist, domestic terrorist, racist, and downright scumbags and liars?

Obama is killing our country, and you folks make amazing excuses for him.

Beck, has a mic, not the future of this country in his hand.

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Except, general company, I'm

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 20:10 ET by balboa

Except, general company, I'm not making excuses for Obama. I haven't been impressed with anything he's done so far.

I don't think he's killing our country, however, because that's hyperbole IMO.

Oh, then what is this?

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 20:32 ET by general company

"ninja", Obama saying his grandmother a "typical white person" is
hardly evidence enough to jump to "Obama hates white people." Neither
is his church.

Then you introduce Beck as a wedge to compare behavior with.

I don't think he's killing our country, however, because that's hyperbole IMO.

OK. Some kinda faith you put into these despots?

I haven't been impressed with anything he's done so far.

??????

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Fair enough. I guess that

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 21:03 ET by balboa

Fair enough. I guess that can be viewed as making excuses. I see it more as explaining, or actually marginalizing, since I merely brushed that statement by him aside.

And I should have left Beck out of it. (Even though he's a nutjob. :-) )

Ok, I looked around a bit,

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:56 ET by danybhoy

Ok, I looked around a bit, I found this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWL-pfCao-U&feature=player_embedded#

...if you buy into his point of view or not, Beck is coming at it with an actual explanation of where he is coming from. I gotta say, much of the artwork in question seems to come right out of the communist blok, at least in spirit. It has that feel to it. You may or may not agree, & I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

Losing Sleep

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 20:08 ET by miss911ninja

Yes, you found it. I agree it's nothing to lose sleep over, considering what we have in the present to lose sleep over! Nevertheless, my prior post below might help sum it up.

Ok, give balboa back! I

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 19:40 ET by Willis_Leon_Johnson

Ok, give balboa back!

I don't know who you are, or why you're pretending to be him but this has got to stop!

"There is something, if you're paranoid, if you're looking to
streeeeeeeetch really far, or if you're trying to make the biggest,
scariest SOMETHING out of a small mound of nothing. "

The 'real' balboa would never have spoken about global warming in this manner!

"Natural Born Citizen" REQUIRES citizenship of BOTH PARENTS.

http://gjresult.com

No Accident, dany

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 19:59 ET by miss911ninja

You're right. Glenn did look into the history of the artwork, which was commissioned by the leaders of industry who owned the buildings where it's displayed. That was the focus of his presentation. The symbols and depictions weren't chosen by accident. They reflect the political views of the people who paid to have them created. Glenn was exploring those views and the influence of the men who held them.

No he didn't. He took a

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 20:21 ET by balboa

No he didn't. He took a couple of images, a few anecdotes, and started babbling paranoid statements.

An Invitation For balboa

Tue, 12/08/2009 - 23:14 ET by miss911ninja

You probably weren't a very good student, because you don't seem to be able to pay attention. While your mind was wandering, Glenn was inviting you to use it!

I did, which is the opposite

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 00:02 ET by balboa

I did, which is the opposite of what Beck did: trying to scare people, make them afraid of inconsequential minutiae.

SORRY...

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 00:43 ET by danybhoy

I think Beck did a good job in explaining why he felt the art in question is communist in it's symbolism & inspiration. He is on to something, & for whatever reason, you want to dismiss what he says. Beck draws a reaction in people, your reaction to him is telling.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

I want to dismiss it because

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 01:08 ET by balboa

I want to dismiss it because it's nonsense. Here's a figure holding a hammer. And it's near a figure with a sickle. MY GOD! WHAT COULD THAT MEAN?! I've been subconsciously subjected to Communism? That Rockefeller Center is actually a communist stronghold? No. None of that is true, but Beck floats it out there as if it's some threat to America. It's absurd, and moronic.

BAL...

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 01:18 ET by danybhoy

You do not understand symbolism, do you?

This one is over.

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."

Nightwish

Yes I do. And a hammer and a

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 01:21 ET by balboa

Yes I do. And a hammer and a sickle do not immediately indicate communism, support for communism, advocating communism. Why anyone thinks that Rockefeller, an enormous capitalist, would suddenly decide to spruce up HIS building with subtle homages to Communism is beyond me.

LIES from balboa the crypto-dummy.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 03:27 ET by JWF

balbo: And a hammer and a sickle do not immediately indicate communism, support for communism, advocating communism.

ham·mer and sick·le • n. the symbols of the industrial worker and the peasant used as the emblem of the former Soviet Union and of international communism. - The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English

balboa: Why anyone thinks that Rockefeller, an enormous capitalist, would suddenly decide to spruce up HIS building with subtle homages to Communism is beyond me.

John D. Rockefeller decided to build a commercial development for the young network-broadcasting industry. Despite the onset of the Great Depression, ground was broken for the complex in 1929. With this ground-breaking, Radio City was born.

Rockefeller Center was built in the 30's before socialism and communism came to be despised by the world at large. So sudden it was 70 years ago huh, balboa idiot?

balboa - crypto-dummy. idiot.

I do.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 03:15 ET by JWF

balbo: Do you know anything about those pieces of art? That had to have been one of Beck's most moronic rants I've ever heard. Ridiculous.

Beck was right about the art. Balboa is a liar. Nothing but a liar.

LIES LIES LIES from Balboa the crypto-dummy.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 03:05 ET by JWF

Just like nwahs and Rush. Balbo the c.d. thinks it is ok to lie and take things out of context to make it appear Beck is a bigot.

From Huffpo: When Fox's Brian Kilmeadeon pointed out that many people in Obama's administration are white, so "you can't say he doesn't like white people," Beck pressed on. "I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem," Beck said. "This guy is, I believe, a racist."

The white people was asked of Beck. He was responding.

His second quote is off too. The quote from his TV show is "You have the artwork to Mussolini there, here in New York at Rockefeller Plaza" Not artwork of Mussolini, artwork TO Mussolini. The artwork represented Mussolini, not a depiction of the actual man.

Beck from the Radio Show : Well, there's a collection of buildings in Rockefeller Plaza and they all are to great things, to sound and to light and to heart. Well, one of the buildings is called the Italia Building. It's Italian. The relief on the front of this building is all about Italy. Well, the relief was actually taken down. It's the only part of Radio City that is not original. It's the only part of Rockefeller Plaza that is not original because what the relief was originally was a monument to Mussolini. And after Mussolini was killed and fascism was tied to Hitler and the killing of the Jews, that's when Rockefeller Plaza decided to take that down. - source

Wait. Is that true?

Another famous statue in Rockefeller Center is the statue of Atlas by Lee Lowrie and Rene Chambellon. This statue was picketed when it was unveiled due to the imagined resemblance to Benito Mussolini.

Here is the actual relief Beck was talking about on his show.

Attilio Piccirilli's Youth Leading Industry has adorned the entrance of the International Building at 636 Fifth Avenue since its installation in May, 1936. Lit from behind, it remains an evening spectacle on Fifth Avenue. Directly above it is another of Piccirilli's works, Commerce and Industry with a Caduceus, also installed in May, 1936.

The 16-foot high by 10-foot-wide relief, Youth Leading Industry glorified the burgeoning political movement in Italy under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. Ironically, though, Piccirilli's nephew served and died in World War II as an American soldier. The Neo-Roman theme was typical of 1930's fascism--the youth shall lead the way towards better times. The near-nude figure dashing ahead of the rearing horses represents empowerment and destiny, the chariot representing strenght of industry and transportation. They are controlled by a confident leader (the charioteer) guiding them towards the future. The bas-relief was cast in 45 Pyrex glass blocks, each hand-cast and unique. After casting, the models and molds were destroyed. No two ware alike and no replicas exist in the world. The small bubble like (seemingly) imperfections were intended to convey fluidity.

The large limestone cartouche, Commerce and Industry with a Caduceus, of two monumental-sized figures symbolizes the basic trades of a nation. The male figure on the left represents commerce, with one hand resting on the handle of a sledgehammer. The female figure on the right represents industry, holding the edge of a rope draped over her shoulder with one hand resting on a cog. A large caduceus, the symbol of Mercury, the god of trade, is placed between the figures. The figures are idealized, with sculpted bodies and confident, relaxed posture. They are clearly delineated, set against protective red and gold wings with a boldly colored, textured background. - source.

So Beck was misquoted by the liar balboa and Beck was correct as well.

Sincerely,

a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.

JWF

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 11:16 ET by miss911ninja

Wow! I think I learned even more from your post than I did from Beck's original show on the subject!

If I misquoted him, then

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 12:47 ET by balboa

If I misquoted him, then I'm wrong, not a liar.

Even so, Beck claiming that it's a monument specifically to Mussolini -- "This is Mussolini." -- is wrong and is done just to scare people. For what reason? Who knows.

I've done a quick survey of the literature on Youth and actually no, the figure at the right doesn't represent Mussolini. It's just a generic, heroic male figure representing industry. There is no evidence to indicate that Piccirilli was a fascist-sympathizer. At the time of the commissions discussed here, he'd lived in New York for four decades. He received these commissions only after a much-publicized dustup about Rockfeller Center pursuing Europeans such as Matisse and Picasso to create the art for Rockefeller Center.) Youth Leading Industry survived World War II intact and unobstructed and has remained on view ever since. SOURCE

And yet you bring on more lies. MORE LIES

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 13:09 ET by JWF

You are a liar because you AS USUAL brought 2nd hand lies to us AS USUAL.

You quote an art BLOGGER. A friggin blogger. A wrong art blogger.

LIE - the figure at the right doesn't represent Mussolini. - But does Youth Leading Industry depict Mussolini? Some scholars say yes, others are silent on the matter. Piccirilli went to school in Italy and in the early day’s of Mussolini’s reign, Mussolini was held in fairly high regard by Italy’s intellectuals and politicos. Mussolini also earned praise in the United States in the early 1930s; and yes, Rockefeller associated with Mussolini. source

Notice that statement crypto-dummy? Some scholars say yes. Others are silent. NO ONE SAID NO.

STRAW MAN - There is no evidence to indicate that Piccirilli was a fascist-sympathizer. - Who the hell said he was?

RED HERRING - Youth Leading Industry survived World War II intact and unobstructed and has remained on view ever since. - Well thank GAWD cuz we are lucky what with all the bombing of New York and all. Wow. We are lucky. Everyone remember the get blitz bombing of New York in 1942?

I quote an art blogger from

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 13:19 ET by balboa

I quote an art blogger from artsjournal.com, who "In 2005 the Wall Street Journal called "the most influential of all visual arts blogs." Two years later the WSJ said, "You won't find a better-informed art writer than Tyler Green," not some random blogger.

How is "the figure at the right doesn't represent Mussolini" a lie?

And even if I were to concede that that figure represents Mussolini, it still doesn't explain why Beck even cares. It's a harmless relief. It's not hurting anyone. It's not preaching to anyone. So why get all worked up about it? Why try to scare people about inconsequential things?

The reason the writer said there was no evidence Piccirilli was a fascist sympathizer is because that seemingly is what Beck is trying to say, that a fascist sympathizer is brandishing his art on an unknowning public.

Wow Bal,

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 13:52 ET by RESTLESS 1

Backpedal much?

It doesn't matter how influential your "blogger" is, he is still wrong, or maybe lying. What are you libs trying to hide anyway?

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

How is he wrong or lying?

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 14:26 ET by balboa

How is he wrong or lying?

Bal,

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 16:27 ET by RESTLESS 1

See here.

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Wait, Restless1, my link to

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 17:10 ET by balboa

Wait, Restless1, my link to an established art blogger isn't any good, but this link to Judd Morse is? And the majority of his post is in contradiction to nearly everything Beck said. He grants that yes, many say Mussolini is being depicted, but that there isn't any progressive about it.

LIE.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 22:39 ET by JWF

The only thing he actually addressed is the part about representing Mussolini. You yourself conceded it represents Mussolini. The rest is straw men and red herrings.

A leftiest lefty left left left lefter far left blogger.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 13:55 ET by JWF

Who wrote his little SLAM after Beck came out AFTER AFTER AFTER. Then lied about the artist being a socialist. NO ONE SAID THE ARTIST WAS SOCIALIST. NO ONE. People said Mussolini was a socialist.

And what in the almighty name of GAWD was that bull about the work surviving World War II? Even the crypto-dummy can't explain that. The piece was built in the 30's.

NEW YORK WAS NEVER BOMBED.

He like you has an agenda.

Oh, guess what. EVERY SINGLE LEFTIST WEBSITE clogged up the internet linking to him.

HE IS THE ONLY ONE SAYING IT IS NOT MUSSOLINI.

THE ONLY FRIGGIN ONE!

BALBOA LIES.

Oh so you lie and no one is supposed to care.

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 14:07 ET by JWF

crypto-dummy: So why get all worked up about it? Why try to scare people about inconsequential things?

We, every single one of us, EVERY FRIGGIN ONE OF US forgot about it. We did not get worked up. We were not scared. We were not most definitely not worked up UNTIL -

YOU Crypto-dummy YOU MOTHER MARY SAVE US ALL YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROUGHT IT UP!

HERE.

ON THIS SITE.

GAWD ALMIGHTY YOU ARE WORTHLESS.

Obviously I'm talking about

Wed, 12/09/2009 - 14:28 ET by balboa

Obviously I'm talking about Beck. Why does Beck care. Why is BECK so worked up about it. Why is BECK trying to scare people.

I know I brought it up.