Fox News's Glenn Beck took on the global warming e-mail scandal known as ClimateGate Monday, and really laid into all the high-profile scientists involved.
As NewsBusters reported Friday, hacked e-mail messages to and from folks with direct access to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show a concerted effort on the part of these powerful scientists to manipulate temperature data in order to exaggerate average global temperatures.
As Beck pointed out Monday, those involved also conspired to prevent viewpoints counter to their own from getting published in scientific journals or becoming part of IPCC reports.
"Think about that next time you hear about, oh, 'the consensus,' and 'the science is settled,' and Al Gore is bragging about the peer reviewed journals" (video embedded below the fold with transcript, h/t Anthony Watts via Bob Ferguson):
GLENN BECK, HOST: A potentially major scandal is unfolding after someone released thousands of e-mails and documents sent between prominent scientists of global warming debate. The New York Times has verified that these e-mails are legitimate which wasn't too hard because some of them were written by and to one of their reporters. More on that here in just a second. But first let's start with the science that has been so settled for all these years. What do these guys say behind closed doors about their so-called bullet-proof consensus? Well, Kevin Trenberth, he's a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research. He wrote, "The fact is we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it's a travesty that we can't." Incorrect data? Inadequate systems? Yeah. Travesty, pretty good word for it.
How about Phil Jones, head of of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, "I have just completed Mike's nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years to hide the decline." Yes, he is talking about a trick that another scientist previously used in a peer reviewed journal to apparently hide the decline in temperatures. Incredible. But it doesn't stop there.
How about when scientific journals published material that Jones didn't like? Quote "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report...Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer review literature is" end quote. Think about that next time you hear about, oh, "the consensus," and "the science is settled," and Al Gore is bragging about the peer reviewed journals
Now what happens to a peer reviewed paper when they disagree with what gets published? Quote "...our only choice is to ignore this paper. They have already achieved what they wanted." But at least they are not intentionally deleting documents or hiding information, right? Oh, no, they're doing that, too. Here is Phil Jones writing Michael Mann, the scientist that came up with that Hockey Stick graph, that one. He said, "Mike, can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re: AR4? Keith will do likewise. He's not in at the moment - minor family crisis...Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address. We will get Caspar to do likewise." Count them. There's Jones, Mike, Keith, Gene, and Caspar, whoever they are, potentially deleting e-mails supposedly about supposed science.
So why all the secrecy? Well, we find out from another e-mail from Michael Mann about skeptic Steven McIntyre. "I'm sure you are aware that McIntyre and his ilk realize they no longer need to get their crap published in legitimate journals [you know, the one's they're cycling! ] but all they have to do is put it up on their blog and the contrarian noise machine kicks into gear. Pretty soon Drudge, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck and their ilk are parroting the claims."
So you see, if McIntyre sees the data, he'll find the tricks that are in it to hide the decline, and then crazy people like me might just let you know about it. Oh, the horror what will happen to cap and trade? That e-mail was sent from one of the scientists to a New York Times reporter. That same reporter, Andrew Revkin, thankfully did report on the story for the New York Times, but he will not post the documents because, quote "The documents appear to have been acquired illegally and contain all manner of private information and statements that were never intended for the public eye, so they won't be posted here." Oh, well, I know, the New York Times would never post or print anything that wasn't intended for the public eye, like, maybe, the way we monitor terrorists or specific strategies to protect our troops in the field. No, no, the New York Times, they're above that.
Deleting e-mails, hiding declines, incorrect data, inadequate systems, redefining scientific peer reviews for their own uses! This is what appears to be going on behind the scenes and literally trillions of dollars of policy decisions are being based on what these guys are telling us. If your gut said, "Wait a minute, this global warming thing sounds like a scam." Well, I think you're seeing it now. We told you this was going on, without proof, because we listened to our gut. You'd never believe me, but once again, here we are with yet another brand new reality.
Indeed.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.





















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Comments Policy
Liberals lying to promote a
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 23:44 ET by rbosqueLiberals lying to promote a global Marxist agenda? What- I am in shock!
Liberals Have To Create A Bigger Diversion
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 01:40 ET by countmein5050Liberals are already on the edge with all the Palin hoopla over her book....and now this...fraud charges that so many have said existed for so long. Liberals can't keep enough lithium in their drips to sustain all this trauma. Look for them to dig up something horrendous to counter this spotlight on their lack of credibility and non-existent integrity. It's coming....brace yourselves. Maybe Perez Hilton can dig up something else on a former beauty contestant...or Martha Stewart can reveal shocking news she's been sitting on since her stint in the slammer. Douche Baggers didn't get that title by being sterling role models.
Liberal pattern here?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 03:43 ET by Forest for the TreesAre you guys seeing a pattern here from the left - let's see, their ACORN scams, the Global Warming/Climate Change scams, the Health Care scam, the Cap & Tax scam, Stimulus 1 & 2 scams, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac scams ....
All built on lies, false claims, take-overs, thuggery, silencing of critics, manipulation, trillions of dollars taxing you and me - for what?
Socialistic control over all of us.
Yep. Seeing the patterns here and the liberals are busted feeling-up the polar bears in the process, oh maybe that was Barney Frank ... it's all so confusing.
A few months ago Steve
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 06:18 ET by danboA few months ago Steve McIntyre (mentioned in these email) wrote on his blog about 3 pieces of flawed pieces of research that politicians have rallied around and defended. And where there was/is an attempt to ignore and villify skeptics.
This is one of them. The second was a flawed Fed bank study. The skeptics were ignored. (Thank you Barney Frank.) It led to forcing banks to loan money to people who couldn't afford it. We know where that went. Freddy and fanny.
The third deals with gun control.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
CRU files
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:01 ET by Apostate_FritterNot only are their own results highly questionable - but spin-off research by others (for nearly 2 decades!) is also now questionable because a great many other researchers used CRU- and Mann- based bogus science as a basis to build their own work upon. The whole house of cards is contaminated and teetering. ALL of it will have to be re-done. That's criminal, and folks need to do time for it.
And they want us to s**t-can our economy and chosen government, and irrevocably alter our lifestyles to our eternal discomfort based on this crud?
No!
TOTAL BS...
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:02 ET by danybhoyThe whole "Global Warming/Climate Change" is potentially the greatest wealth transfer scam in the history of the world if it the world "decides" to make carbon a taxable item. The more people actually know about why global temps go up & down, rather then listening to fraudsters like Al Whore & General Electric.
BTW, one guy everyone needs to know about & expose is MAURICE STRONG. This is the guy who reallyset the framework for the "Global Warming/Climate Change" debate as we know it, more or less. He needs to called out & exposed for the fraud he is. He's just as bad as Al Gore & George Soros, they all work in concert on this one.
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
No One Hits Like Glenn Beck - That's Why They Hate Him
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:02 ET by rammingspeedIt's been said that by exposing the secret memos and outright lies, ClimateGate does to the wacko enviros what the Pentagon Papers did to the US war effort in Viet Nam. Al Gore: crunched. Sierra Club: clubbed. Rationality: 1 point.
Huh...hacked emails? Well my
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:04 ET by balboaHuh...hacked emails? Well my goodness. Who would hack into someone's email?
MY GUESS...
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:23 ET by danybhoyThe same people who hacked into Sarah Palin's e-mail account. I'm just saying.
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
Someone who likes truth?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 01:43 ET by FranksamI suppose it would be someone like the folks that surreptitiously video-taped the scum at ACORN who thought that it was okay to bring thirteen- year-old girls from Ecuador into brothels. The truth will set you free. I thought liberals liked that idea.
But There's The Integrity
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 01:45 ET by countmein5050But there's the integrity the MSM has suddenly found in declaring they will not stoop so low as to reveal the e mails as this was PRIVATE and not intended for public gratification...not like the e mails they published of Palin's hacked personal correspondence...oh wait...EXACTLY LIKE THAT. Funny how liberals only get a conscience when a fellow liberal is on the chopping block. Palin didn't warrant that kind of integrity and ethics.
Trying to protect private
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 07:33 ET by nadadhimmiTrying to protect private communication? Hey NYT, all conspiracies to defraud are private. That's why they are conspiracies, morons.
bilbo baggins makes an important point again.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 02:12 ET by JWFbilbo baggins balboa: Blame the messenger!
There is only one man on the planet that hated Sarah Palin and the global warming lies equally - PopularTech.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Excellent point, Vet
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:31 ET by BlondeDon't forget, Fabio claimed to be some kind of techno-geek.
Case closed. Wonder if the NYT will report him being moved to Guantanamo? Surely Holder wouldn't allow him to be tried here for his crimes against humanity? I mean, come on! By releasing those anti-warming e-mails, he committed a crime against the entire planet!!!! (But I'm sure the Obama administration will pass on pressing charges for hacking the Governor's e-mails....they've never heard of her, so why bother?).
I hope he fails, too.
Well at least now we know
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:26 ET by MidAmericaWell at least now we know how algore could say if we don't change our ways we would all die in ten years yet he jetted around the world and he used enough energy at his home to power a small town. He knew the truth.
CLIMATE CHANGE = WEATHER, THAT'S IT...
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:39 ET by danybhoyYou know why so many of those who really buy into the "GlobalWarming/ClimateChange" BS are younger folks? Because they are too young to remember that we were told 30 years ago that have 5 or 10 years to fix things, or else...Someone new pops up evry so often to make a stupid claim that we have a few years to change the world, & those of us who have lived 30some plus years know they are ALWAYS WRONG, ALWAYS.
Maybe that's why there is growing opposition to all of the fraudulent carbon taxation.
"...How blind can you be, don't you see...
...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."
Nightwish
Who's going to
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:35 ET by MidAmericaWho's going to explain to all the little kids who have been having nightmares about the polar bears dying that they have been lied to? Boy are these kids going to grow up to be cynical. I imagine it'll be similar to what the Soviet Union kids went through when they became old enough to see through the government propaganda.
Here's a Polar Bear Nightmare for you, Mid
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:40 ET by BlondeI thought you knew, every time you flew to Europe you produced enough carbon to displace the weight of an adult polar bear.
Silly man, you are killing the polar bears without even knowing it.
Warning: Graphic content.
Talk about scaring the kids!!! My car is scared.
I hope he fails, too.
→ Blonde
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:46 ET by Cool ArrowI think I'll take my chances with the occasional hailstorm here in Texas.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
I hate those too!
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:53 ET by BlondeWe don't get them often in Florida (lightning capital of the world)....but when we get them, they'll ruin your vehicle.
I hope he fails, too.
You are so busted Blonde it has gotta hurt mucho muchoniness.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:10 ET by JWFWhere did you get that link Blonde who is in charge of the list of Blogs on the lower right of this page?
Ace of Spades which you personally put right at the top! That is where! Nepotism! Right? Oh Whatever. Corruption probe at NB! Busted! My favorite blog Villainous Company is still at the bottom. Nepotisms!
That said. How is this video gonna help the cause. It is gruesome and make me wanna slap a hippie liberal.
Gotta go. Gonna hide behind the tree next to the sidewalk. I think one is coming now.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Is that one way? Or round
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:23 ET by danboIs that one way? Or round trip?
Can I have the pelts for the ones I've bagged? I hear they make great rugs.
What did I bag flying to the Caribbean?
If I flew open jaw to Paris and home from Venice do I get a premium?
Do folks who fly from the west coast get lagniappe?
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
dan, dan, so many questions!!!!
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:46 ET by BlondeWell, it's round trip of course. I mean, otherwise the plane flies back empty....so really!!! I thought you were a scientist and well versed in logical thinking (oh, never mind, I forgot you skipped that liberal leaping illogic class).
Secondly, yes, you may keep the pelts. (Don't tell anyone the next). If you pay for Sarah Palin to fly down to help you dress those beasts, you'll get twice as many pelts (she has enough), plus a free autographed copy of her new book. I hear she enjoys bonfires consisting of Inconvenient Truth tinder, too. Kindly keep that under your hat as well, dan. We're pals.
Since I'm letting you in on all the secrets, I'll give up the ultimate one. Book yourself and your wife immediately round trip to Moscow, then hire a BIG car to go to the Hermitage (something I've always wanted to do). Spend a couple of days there. When you return, you will be pelted by sables falling out of the sky, and your Christmas worries are over. You didn't think instant karma, um, sable coat, was in your future, did you?
I'm surprised you missed the Marlin & Mackeral rain after your flight to the Carribean. Did you fly a prop-job puddle jumper or somesuch? You should know by now that only jets kill and then rain wildlife. Sheesh....do I have to explain all of this to you?
Paris? Paris? Why would you want to do that? Falling frenchmen and immigrants in burkhas is the horrifying result....what would you possibly do with them? I mean, I suppose you could weave the burkhas into textiles or something, but there's not much of a market.
I'm not sure about the lagniappe. That might require a direct flight from where you are to Key West and back to cause crab, oyster, and other assorted seafood to rain down on you. I'll have to research it and get back to you, okay?
I hope he fails, too.
What Glenn says about
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:28 ET by danboWhat Glenn says about getting out of debt is right on. We did that about 10 or 12 years ago. Squirreled away. And we're trying to ejoy some of it before Obama and the dems crash the currency.
We love Paris. The Parisians were glad to see us. Turning more conservative. There are great deals there now. Not a lot of other tourists. And I could spend all day in the Louvre and Orsay. Actually I ran into more Italians in Paris than burkkas.
We just missed the rain. Flew out that morning. We had to change planes in Phili. By the time we got there, NO was socked in.
Wasn't the Caribbean though, Italy. We're just hoping on a dive trip to the Caribbean in the spring and hopefully back to europe next fall. So I wanta collect all the pelts I can. They may be worth more than the dollar.
Don't I get at least an extra fox pelt for the open jaw.
Lagniappe is a term that refers to something extra. Like a bakers dozen.
Burning carbon and loving it.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Seafood isn't extra?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 12:06 ET by BlondeWe used to have a fab restaurant here, the Lagniappe Cajun House. Miss that place.
Sounds like you had a lovely trip....we're headed off to Costa Rica again soon. At the rate the dollar is falling....I wish I'd socked it away in gold. Where's sarcasmo when you need him, huh?
I hope he fails, too.
This is a catastrophe
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 00:41 ET by MidAmericaThis is a catastrophe for Big Environment. The environmentalists stopped worrying about individual species and hitched their fortunes to the Global Warming/Climate Change bandwagon and now have a real disaster on their hand. How do they explain that they have all been duped? I don't think they will give up easily. There's too much money and power at stake.
peer review
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 02:15 ET by ceedubyaSo how would these people filter out reports skeptical of AGW? From the James Delingpole blog yesterday, a scientist described how a group a couple of decades back essentially set themselves up as that filter. This meant they could suggest that their reports were "consensus" and as such pretty much bulletproof.
Thankfully it will start to unravel but only if we keep pulling at the threads in whatever way we can. The MSM are part of this fraud/scam/deceit so they will not do it for us.
I believe in global warming,
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 05:07 ET by toneyukiI believe in global warming, its called summer.
Save the grass, eat more meat.
I left the Republican party because the Republic party went to the LEFT of me.
Glenn Beck
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 06:56 ET by WorriedI'll sign up to be a community organizer.
I'll do it because I love this country, I cherish the values foisted upon us by our Founders, and BECAUSE I HATE THE LEFT AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO PUT THE U.S.A. OUT OF BUSINESS.
Guess what, we won't even need to receive funds from the #1 Community Organizer-in-Chief.
Do a search for community
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 08:11 ET by danboDo a search for community organization workshop. Most of these are run by pretty liberal folks. But can give information on how.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
The climate was warming...
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 08:12 ET by c5thenNow it's not. Hasn't been for almost 10 years now. You don't hear anyone in the "Man-made Global Warming" camp talk about the global temperatures from 1999 - 2008, do you? They went the wrong way so the data is ignored. It seems to have a very tight correlation to the sunspot cycle. Now who'da thunk that?
Throw 'da bums out!!!
Before it's too late.
www.loyaltoliberty.com
Finally, he admits it. He is
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 08:55 ET by troglodytFinally, he admits it. He is listening to his gut. Colbert has always been right: Truthiness is on its way.
But you of course believe
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:35 ET by Scuba DudeBut you of course believe all the Global Warming hoopla and suck down everything Al Gore says as if it was your mothers milk.
Move along little t.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" Tacitus
Actually: no. But if you
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:50 ET by troglodytActually: no. But if you believe that this whole scandal is disproving anything about global warming you should reconsider your ability to reason.
My ability to reason is
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:25 ET by Scuba DudeMy ability to reason is quite well thank you. I am a skeptic when it comes to global warming. Your post on the other hand appears to be an attack on one of the messengers, Glenn Beck. So by you attacking the messenger it is not a far stretch to say you support global warming.
Now, this scandal appears to show a concerted effort by the scientist that support global warming to try and either suppress or ridicule anyone who has data that does not support AGW or debunks it. How many of these scientist stand to see a large payout if the government goes through with cap and tax? How many have investments in "green" technology? As Blonde stated above, "Follow The Money". We just might see they are after a buck and not the truth.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" Tacitus
Do you follow the money
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:31 ET by troglodytDo you follow the money when it comes to sceptical scientists?
Anyway: What does this concerted effort of a handful (!) of scientist tell you about the efforts of pro-AGW researchers not involved in this scandal?
I read all 14 gigabytes of emails.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:38 ET by JWFNot one of them were from pro-AGW researchers not involved in the scandal.
Woo. Woo. Express train to stupid. Next stop. Little "t"s front yard.
You do have a brain!
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:40 ET by troglodytYou do have a brain!
And you are too stupid to help the AGW cause.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:42 ET by JWFSo shut up.
Thanks for the inside how a
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:45 ET by troglodytThanks for the inside how a conservative handles an open debate: Just tell your opponent to shut up.
What debate Girlyman Part Deux?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:49 ET by JWF:Little "t" opens the debate: Finally, he admits it. He is listening to his gut. Colbert has always been right: Truthiness is on its way.
You missed the only stop on the Express Train to Stupid. How sad is that. Too stupid to get of at your own front door.
And who took the bait?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:54 ET by troglodytAnd who took the bait? You are with me on that train.
You have not made a lick of sense yet.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:55 ET by JWFWhy start now?
You were never serious. You were just trolling. You know AGW is just a load of crap like the rest of us.
So long stupid troll.
No I don't think it is a
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:00 ET by troglodytNo I don't think it is a load of crap.
My point in the beginning was about Colbert's observation of how conservatives think, i.e. with their gut, and Beck sort of proving that observation to be at least partially right.
It is a load of crap. It
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:21 ET by Scuba DudeIt is a load of crap. It was not to long ago that we were being warned that we were heading into another Ice Age. They can't make up their friggin minds, so why should we trust anything these scientist and Al "ManBearPig" Gore have to say?
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" Tacitus
Liberals and open debates
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:26 ET by EllisWyatt"Thanks for the inside how a conservative handles an open debate:"
As opposed to how a liberal handles a debate: call your opponent a racist, unsophisticated hick.
If you're not outraged at the media, you haven't been paying attention.
The Global Warming model is 22 years old.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:29 ET by JWFThis scandal will help it how again? You think you will finally fix it after 22 years of lies now? Maybe year 23 will be the charm now?
Finally, little "t" admits
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:45 ET by JWFFinally, little "t" admits it. He is sitting on his butt. Sherbet has always been tasty. Toppings are on the way.
Oh, look, little "t" does not have a copyright on drive-by nonsense.
If that was an attempt of
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 09:54 ET by troglodytIf that was an attempt of being funny, I'd rather urge you to watch this. You can learn a lot about it.
Oh dear sweet lord. I have to get out of my cave more.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:18 ET by JWFWhy golly gee willikers, I have never ever ever never ever never heard of Colbert and his lame comedy skewer of George W Bush.
Why we are all just too stupid to pick up a newspaper, or turn on a TV in 2006. Thank the lord above for the blessing little "t" just gave us.
Please, oh please, mister, google and link more for us that can't yet afford the televisions. Please, oh please mister.
I thought you wanted to go
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:26 ET by troglodytI thought you wanted to go hiding somewhere? And still you are not funny! You act rather homeresque although you leave that "by the way that was sarcasm" away. Have a nice day.
I thought you could
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:35 ET by JWFI thought you could frame a logical thought but I was wrong.
I thought you wanted to go hiding somewhere? I thought statements end in a period? I question my own thoughts?
You gonna stand around and argue with people that your tire is flat or are you gonna pull out the jack and change the flat tire?
22 years. We are still waiting for little "t" to fix global warming. Failure. Loser. Idiot.
Well your misuse of logic
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:38 ET by troglodytWell your misuse of logic is appaling.
Your 22 years of AGW logic has fixed what again?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:45 ET by JWFJack Squat. Fix it Girlyman Part Deux. Fix it now.
Why should I? If life on
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:48 ET by troglodytWhy should I? If life on earth became intolerable in my lifetime, I'd love to see the expression on your face.
I thought the science was settled Girlyman Part Deux.
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:53 ET by JWFIf life on earth became intolerable...
Now it is if. Which is it Girlyman PD? If Girlyman PD? If?
Seriously. Shut up. You are too stupid to help the cause.
That the science is settled,
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:57 ET by troglodytThat the science is settled, maybe your impression but isn't my opinion. Although I tried to refrain from the number one word in your vocabulary: You are too stupid to help your cause. But I'm willing to exchange further insults with you, so please don't shut up.
Then he should be willing
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:46 ET by danboThen he should be willing to buy Enron stock at the prices it went for before the fall. After all getting caught cooking the books means nothing.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
It does mean something, but
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:50 ET by troglodytIt does mean something, but not what you like it to mean: The total disproval of AGW theory.
You're right it just proves
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:35 ET by danboYou're right it just proves the're conning manipulating data, trying to avoid disagreement.
Skeptics don't have to prove anything.
You have to prove
1. AGW is real. Not just global warming. But that Anthropological Global Warming is real.
And
2. Prove that it's more than a minor issue.
Claims to that has been demonstrated being based of cooking the evidence.
You lose.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
ad 1) That is very
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 05:03 ET by troglodytad 1) That is very convenient isn't it? Let's make a comparison: You would probably agree, that people in close proximity to a exploding nuclear device (not to closeof course), have a high risk of getting cancer. Nonetheless if somebody gets cancer, you cannot with absolut certainty claim that it was the radiation that caused it. There are always other possible explanations. The same goes with much of science in general. What science does is to single out the most probable explanation for what is happening based on generally accepted laws how nature works. That doesn't mean that with absolut certainty this explanation is correct.
To put it another way: What would prove AGW for you? What would make you a believer? What has to happen?
ad 2) That this is not a minor issue should be on hand. Even the pentagon is reconsidering its global strategy because of the implications global warming has.
Interesting. This is now on
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 06:14 ET by danboInteresting. This is now on page 3. We've basically all left. Then you sneak in a response.
Please have your cancer surgery when people are flicking off the ink of the doctored X rays.
If this is real I suppose you would want GISS, CRU, IPCC and others to start allowing people to see the data. It is that solid isn't it?
You still offer no proof that 1. AGW is real and 2 it's a big deal. The pentagon probably has a plan for an invasion from the north. (Proof, those Canadians can't be trusted can they.)
You still lose.
Darn. Now you'll have to wait till we all leave again to sneak in to give a dumb response that no one will challenge.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Told you he was to stupid to help the cause.
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 06:21 ET by JWFlitte "t": That doesn't mean that with absolut certainty this explanation is correct.
The idiot admits the debate is not over.
And of course you couldn't
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 07:39 ET by troglodytAnd of course you couldn't resist to troll along.
My question is: What
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 07:42 ET by troglodytMy question is: What exactly counts as proof for you? If you don't bother to answer that question don't bother to reply at all.
You have obviously no idea, what science is about and how it works.
Yep I know nothing about
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 07:57 ET by danboYep I know nothing about science or how it works. I slept through all those classes on research methods in grad school. Also the statistics classes. I just faked it in undergrad, grad school and professional career.
I need to listen to experts who will tell me what science is. (Professional joke: definition of "expert", someone you like, who agrees with you, but also lives far enough away to not be in direct competition for money.)
You lose.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
No mention of what you
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:04 ET by troglodytNo mention of what you want to see as proof. Not mention what it is science does. Just avoiding the topic.Who was loosing again?
Wrong again. You lose
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:09 ET by danboWrong again.
You lose again.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Now you can't even
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:27 ET by troglodytNow you can't even comprehend what you yourself wrote before?
Were?"You lie!" Rep.
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:36 ET by danboWhere? (Sorry. Typo. Not were.)
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
There was no mention of what
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:41 ET by troglodytThere was no mention of what you consider to be proof or science.
What might sway me. 1.
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 09:50 ET by danboWhat might sway me.
1. Prove, there is warming. Satellite data shows no warming for the last 10 years. There was probably warming in the 20th centry in response to the little ice age, but there's so much manipulation of data it's hard to tell how much and where and when. (Open the books)
2 Prove that the warming in the 20th century was unusual. In geology and archaeology there is much evidence of warmer periods. They have to prove this is unusual. This is part of the problem exposed in these emails. Truncating data and using small sample size is a problem for them. And splicing different types of data together to create a false image, is unethical.
3 If the warming is unusual. Prove this warming is caused mainly by green house gases. R^2 for CO2/tempertures is all over the place from high coorelations in the 90's to minimal in the 30's, (when temps went up) to negative in post WWII. (Remember coorelation is not proof of causality. There are 4 possible explanations for coorelations.) There are a number of variables and combinations of variables that can cause warmth. Just saying there were eliminated doesn't make it so. There is much to indicate that the ocieanic oscilations are a stronger driver of climate than CO2. And they were on warm from the late 70's to late 90's. One paper that it looks like was produced during a compromised peer review process doesn't make it so that the sun has been eliminated as a cause of warming.
4. Prove it's a big deal. Prove that any warming due to CO2 will be great, and has a serious impact. We know the true danger is cooling. What will make what is normally in natural cycles benificial a problem. But you have to do 1, 2, and 3 first.
That's what will sway me.
These emails indicate that some scientist manipulated data, they subverted the peer review process, they stood in the way of an open review of the data, they purpousfully ignored and hid contradictory data and that they overstated the evidence.
Otherwise AGWing is on a great footing.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
I'll try to play devils
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:01 ET by troglodytI'll try to play devils advocate (although I'm not fully into this matter):
1.) AFAIK the data set of nasa (concerning 2000-2007) shows a warming trend of 0.25 C per decade. The data set of Hadley 0.17 C per decade. The margin of error is 0.34 C wide because the period is so short. If you take a longer period the trends becomes more error tolerant. The IPCC trend calculated over the last 50 years is 0.17 C per decade margin of error +-0.03 C per decade.
It is not reasonable to believe that there is no fluctuating in climate overlapping the underlying trend. Or to put it in financial terms: Just because the DOW is falling in one week doesn't mean that the overall trend isn't pointing up. A decade is a rather very short term concerning climate (of course a century is not much longer, but statistical more reliable). Just aside: How do you know for sure that there was no warming over the last ten years, if you consider the data not reliable?
2.) That there were regions on earth, which were warmer in the past (like europe in the middle ages)doesn't mean, that the global mean temperature was higher (on short notice I couldn't find data on global temperatures between 1000-1300, if you have some share it).
3.) That those correlations differ has probably to do with the variability mentioned above. We could reverse roles for once: Assuming you believe in the basic laws of thermodynamics and the experimentally verified effect CO2 has on infra red radiation, how is it not warming?
4.) Well that is difficult, because it depends on the pace of warming. The faster the warming, the bigger a deal it is. Concerning might be migration of people, because of rising sea levels or the possible shift in freshwater supplies etc. pp. I don't belong to the bunch of people who assume the worst. If it happens, maybe so slow, so that mankind can adapt. But I'd rather avoid it anyway.
→ Troglodike
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 11:06 ET by Cool ArrowThe Devil just called. He insists you cease and desist from any further representation of yourself as his advocate.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
I'll answer what will not
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:08 ET by danboI'll answer what will not be proof but might sway me.
Open all the books. Raw data, and code. Not just adjusted and manipulated data. Allow anyone who wants to access it, have it and to openly challenge it. And respond honestly to those challenges, not just name calling.
That has never happened.
And that's how real science works.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
And you will have my support
Thu, 11/26/2009 - 08:40 ET by troglodytAnd you will have my support on it.
Game, Set and Match
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 12:11 ET by dboIt does mean something, but not what you like it to mean: The total disproval of AGW theory.
But this does:
Lovely. This was from just last month. After all these years of peddling their scientific theory the leaders of the AGW movement can't explain the lack of energy budget in the Earths system. This is the whole foundation of the AGW theory.
Will Algore now have to give his awards back?
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:22 ET by Great DebaterI believe Al Gore is the only person to be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and Grammy, and also accept an Oscar (he narrated the winning "documentary" while the award officially goes to the producer). Considering that the "evidence" of Global Warming has been shown to be, quite literally, a vast conspiracy, will Algore have to give his awards back? Sadly, the answer is obviously no, because 1) He's a liberal, 2) It hasn't been proven that the globe's not warming, and 3) He tried to do nice things. On a side note, how has both Gore AND Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize, while Rev. Billy Graham has not?
I guess we know who will be
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:06 ET by eaglewingz08I guess we know who will be next year's Nobel Prize winners, all these scam environmental 'scientists'. They will have to receive the award because the progressives-socialists need their hoax to destroy western civilization and replace it with commie or islamo barbarism.
I also think the caption for this thread should include Beck's mocking of the NYSlimes for their sudden acquisition of ethics and their extraordinary refusal to not print documents that 'were not meant for the public eye'. So cigarette company docs not meant for the public eye and purloined by 'whistleblowers' are fair game, same with breaches to our military methods/operations/intelligence and national security. But don't lay a finger on the holy of holies of liberalism, man made global warming.
And these liberal newspapers wonder why no one of any real intelligence reads them anymore.
Let's see if my fellow alumni are embarrassed now
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:19 ET by EllisWyattI'm a Penn State alum, and a few years ago, several alumni wrote in to the alumni magazine (The Penn Stater) saying they were "embarassed" that Rick Santorum was an alumnus. Let's see how "embarassed" they are now that one of our faculty members (Michael Mann) has been caught trying to keep dissenting opinions out of academic journals. If my alma mater has any integrity at all, they will fire Mann for this conduct.
If you're not outraged at the media, you haven't been paying attention.
Well, Ellis
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 11:26 ET by BlondeI get trumped in the embarassing Congress critter with this entry....but I'll see your embarassing alumni and raise you $100 with mine in a game of embarassing alumbi poker. (Although I hear they were correspondence courses or somesuch, she claims to have graduated from UF...no freakin' way).
I hope he fails, too.
Gators and Nittany Lions Should Come Together ...
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 13:21 ET by EllisWyattalong with alumni of any other university that employs those who have been uncovered in these emails, and start getting on the administrations and boards of trustees of our respective universities to have these people removed. "Vigorous Debate" is one thing, outright intimidation of those who hold opposing views is quite another.
If you're not outraged at the media, you haven't been paying attention.
Contact Michael Mann
Tue, 11/24/2009 - 14:52 ET by Tom PaineI am embarrased to say that one of the researchers, Michael Mann
teaches at my alma mater, Penn State. Please join me in sending him an
email to tell him exactly what you think of him. I will also be
sending another email to the PSU department of Earth and Mineral
Sciences demanding his removal and a full investigation.
Contact him at mann@psu.edu