UPDATE: More promo videos at end of post.
Calling all 9/11 Truthers: the National Geographic Channel will be airing a program on Monday evening that will debunk many of your conspiracy theories.
Aptly named "9/11: Science and Conspiracy," the special aims to address some of the most common connivances espoused by wackos like Rosie O'Donnell.
Such theories include (video preview embedded below the fold, h/t Craig Moncho):
Conspiracy: The fire could not have gotten hot enough to melt the steel.
Science: The Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center (EMRTC) designed explosives to test the effects of burning jet fuel on steel. EMRTC used a bare steel beam because the National Institute of Standards and Technology reports that much of the any fireproofing material would have been knocked off at the moment of impact. Within two minutes of igniting the fuel, the temperature peaked just above 2,000 Fahrenheit and complete structural failure occurred in less than four minutes.Conspiracy: The collapse was caused by controlled demolition.
Science: The film crew recorded the demolition of a college dormitory building to learn all that is involved in the process of prepping and loading. The first step was to expose the columns in order to attach explosives to them. The World Trade Center had 47 inner core columns that would have needed to be prepared. To cut the steel beams the demolition team used a shape charge, which is piece of copper apportioned to a shape-charged weapon. When an explosive is attached and ignited, the device implodes and forms a stream of liquid copper that cuts through the steel. A demolition of this scale would leave clear evidence behind, but no such traces were found at Ground Zero.Conspiracy: Thermite, which is less traceable, was used in the controlled demolition that brought down the towers.
Science: Some Truthers claim that pulverized dust found by some New Yorkers after the attack contained the checmical signature of thermite. Scientists assert that even if this dust did contain thermite, it would be impossible to determine whether the thermite came from a controlled demolition or simply from the melting of the airplanes. EMRTC designed an experiment to see if thermite was a plausible option in the collapse of the towers. The thermite in the test was not even able to melt a column much smaller than those in the World Trade Center.
This should be required viewing for all Truthers.
*****Update: NGC has sent some more promotional videos --
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.





















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Awesome.
August 30, 2009 - 21:05 ET by GregEAwesome.
Whew
August 30, 2009 - 21:07 ET by legacyrepublicanNow only if we could only get a truthful program on Obamacare that does not make fun of the people who actually read the bill and see the problems with it.
We're dealing in science
August 30, 2009 - 21:14 ET by ThisnThatWe're dealing in science here, legacyR, not miracles.
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
You mean actual objective
August 30, 2009 - 21:45 ET by GregEYou mean actual objective programming on a massive liberal spending/powergrab/citizenry-control/massive-govt-dependency bill?
Oh my ...
August 30, 2009 - 23:44 ET by legacyrepublicanGood points both of you.
What was I thinking!? ROFL
Color me shocked...the
August 30, 2009 - 21:12 ET by bigtimerColor me shocked...the National Geo doing this?
...I'll be darned.
What's next...debunking algoreglobalwarming BS?
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT, who knows? Maybe --
August 30, 2009 - 21:16 ET by ThisnThatBT, who knows? Maybe -- just maybe -- this is a test case, and if successful, then a whole rafter of other specials will come out. Perhaps they're in production as we speak? We can only hope.
___________________________________
"Tax the rich" is a basically unstable way of governing - The NYT
Ha! I was thinking the same
August 30, 2009 - 21:24 ET by QueenMumHa! I was thinking the same thing, bt.
Thanks for the tip Noel. Should be worth watching.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
What's next...debunking
August 31, 2009 - 05:55 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsWhat's next...debunking algoreglobalwarming BS?
Nah, I think Katrina debunking would be next. They got video and audio already. Then they'll do the AGW. A triple header.
D
Write your Congress and Senate and tell them what YOU think!
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
Noel, This is great
August 30, 2009 - 21:22 ET by Free StinkerNoel,
This is great stuff, thanks for posting it!
Where is our favorite truther at?
August 30, 2009 - 21:26 ET by UnsaneWe need to bookmark this for WhichWhine.
:-)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
LOL! He still won't
August 30, 2009 - 21:32 ET by Free StinkerLOL!
He still won't believe the science behind this.
I knew he was a fool right away since he likes the "controlled demolition" theory. Anyone who has worked in a Manhatten Office building for any length of time knows that even off-hours (weekends and nights) there are still dozens of people in the building, and you can not hide the demolotion work crews that supposedly were at work. And seriously, if it had happened . . . someone would have talked by now.
Logistics? THAT is your argument???
August 30, 2009 - 21:36 ET by UnsaneAre you saying that a controlled demolition was/is logistically impossible given the circumstances? Oh for crying out loud...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
LOL Uns! Next, you're
August 30, 2009 - 21:38 ET by Free StinkerLOL Uns!
Next, you're going to expect us to believe that you have some special knowledge of logistics. As if. ;-)
Unsane, Are you a
August 30, 2009 - 21:45 ET by LiberalliesUnsane,
Are you a Truther? wow....I guess I haven't been keeping up. this is futbolisgreat. You seem an otherwise very logical person. I hope you haven't become a truther.
Sadly, my younger brother-in-law, he is 20 years old is a Truther. he came to me and asked me to watch a movie with him. It was preposterous. It was full of conspiracy theories, from claiming that Jesus Christ was actually derived from an Egyptian mythological god to the 9/11 was done by the USA.
I tried to talk to my brother-in-law with facts, backing up everything I said. Nothing and I mean NOTHING convinced him. Of course, it doesn't help that he is attending a Chicago community college where he is being taught to be ashamed of the USA.
he walked away from me while he said, "Well, you believe what you want to believe and I believe what I want to believe." to which I answer, "You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to make up facts or to believe lies as truths".
Truthers are impossible to reason with, sad to say.
Before the rumors get started...
August 30, 2009 - 22:18 ET by UnsaneLOL!!!
No, no, no...in fact, in the posts above FS and I were mocking the notorious NB truther, WhichWing (whom I refer to as WhichWhine). We were indeed pointing out the logistical impossibility of anything like the truthers propose.
Good to see you again.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Unsane, Holy Cow! don't
August 30, 2009 - 22:20 ET by LiberalliesUnsane,
Holy Cow! don't scare me like that again! hahaha!! if one of the most reasonable, well spoken NB Conservatives became a Truther...what is the world coming to. HA!
nice to see you too!
Free you are so right. The
August 30, 2009 - 21:53 ET by Radical1979Free you are so right. The one thing you can always bet on is people talking. Can you imagine the book deal someone could get? Probably more than Tom Ridge who either lied during the election of 2004 or is lying now.
Chuck Colson (former Nixon
August 30, 2009 - 22:01 ET by Free StinkerChuck Colson (former Nixon Lawyer) once explained that a reason he decided to believe that Jesus did in fact rise from the dead, and it wasn't a hoax, was that the Nixon administration had the CIA and the FBI at their disposal, and still they could not cover up a simple burglery(Watergate), so how could something more complex be covered up with no one finding out?
I think that would apply to this situation as well.
Nixon couldn't cover up a simple burglery, so how would Bush (who is supposed to be an idiot) cover up an intentional 9/11 ?
Free Stinker, Well
August 30, 2009 - 22:08 ET by LiberalliesFree Stinker,
Well said!
Most Truthers will start by telling you what an idiot, what a chimp, what a moron, what a poor speaker, what a poor student, Bush was. They'll also go on on a rant of how Bush is not an intelligent person.
Then they'll turn around, claim that Bush did 9/11 and covered it up. Thus claiming that Bush is a diabolical genius.
This is why I stopped debating these lunatics who contradict themselves.
as always, the majority of
August 31, 2009 - 01:48 ET by RayRayas always, the majority of humans arrive at their opinions and beliefs because of emotional reasons. Then they use whatever intelligence they have (whether big or small) to bolster their beliefs.
Which explains why the concept of maximum voter participation is really, really bad.
here's a conspiracy for ya
August 31, 2009 - 19:04 ET by UndercoverConservativeschools spend excessive amounts of time teaching "social issues"(indoctrination) instead of science. Students are encouraged to study subjective "soft sciences" and discouraged from hard sciences with objective results. Kids grow up without even the base instinctual understanding of how things 'work" in real life.
So when disaster comes along, it can be spun for these people into believing illogical and unscientifically sound theories, where even a decent science background would have installed some skepticism. Theories protected by using "beliefs" and "feelings" are pushed to promote hate towards political opponents of the (very same) people who pushed for more "johnny has two moms" and banana-condoms and less science, math and chemistry.
To paraphrase the conspiracy mindset: "Coincidence? I think not!"
WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)
I hate to say it, but you
August 30, 2009 - 21:32 ET by Scuba DudeI hate to say it, but you could go back in time and show the attacks and collapse of the Towers to a "Truther" real time and they still will not believe it. They need something to cling onto for the sake of their sanity (not that they are sane).
The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER
I would like to see an
August 30, 2009 - 21:50 ET by GregEI would like to see an objective, completely scientific study regarding Tower 7. Conspiracies abound all over the place, but no matter what regarding Towers 1 and 2, the truther will always move to "what about Tower 7 that wasn't even hit?" I think a study of that, similar to this one posted, would be interesting, and answer that question.
I'm sure it will be
August 31, 2009 - 08:05 ET by ckc1227I'm sure it will be addressed in the show. It's been addressed many times before elsewhere. Not sure what the big mystery is anyway. No, it wasn't hit by a plane, but it was hit by debris from the WTC, and was burning most of the day. Several times during coverage I heard news people comment that firefighters were concerned it could collapse at any time, and they pulled them back several times because they thought it was about to come down.
There is no mystery to WTC 7, just a lot of half-truths and lies cobbled together to make it seem like something it isn't.
It has been my understanding
August 30, 2009 - 21:52 ET by nadadhimmiIt has been my understanding that EPA had a role in removing certain types of fire insulation from those support beams. Asbestos was involved, but the building was designed in the 60's for that type of fire protection. Anyone know for sure?
I is confused.
August 31, 2009 - 03:28 ET by JWFWhy are you coming here with conjecture? Google it please.
This smacks of wild conjecture. If the columns and floor joists of buildings are exposed at great expense, great expense I might add, huge huge huge expense exposing steel columns in a fully finished office building. If this is done at great expense I might add, stripping old insulation that in all likelyhood posed no hazard to anyone. If, if it is done, tremendously expensive, you might think they would replace it with some new environmentally expensive new expensive insulation.
Last I checked buildings are designed with many uses in mind. Last I checked, no one walked up with a handfull of asbestos and says hey can we design a building around this?
Also last I checked. Asbestos is torn out at great great great expense because it is -
a. exposed
b. needed to be removed as the building is being torn down.
Google sir. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
re: the asbestos rumor
August 31, 2009 - 05:41 ET by lunaticcringeradiothe steel beams when the building were being constructed had only been covered partially the way up because some environmentalists claimed that asbestos is so harmful(after being covered in concrete) to the users of the buildings so it could not be used anymore. so a lil more than halfway to 3/4s up the beams were covered with asbestos, the planes stategically hit above the area where the asbestos had not been installed, in the environmentalists claim to protect peoples lives. would this have prevented the fall of the buildings? maybe not, but it might have given many more hours or even a few days before the metal had heated and weakend before they fell allowing more to be saved.
fyi environmentalists also wouldn't allow more efficient cfcs to be used to cool the tanks on the space shuttle, resulting in the big insulation and ice sheets to fall off the tanks now and punch holes and destroy them on reentry.
yes a fine job those environmentalists are doing. i think their actions could have actually led to more peoples deaths than people they have saved.
fyi if you know of any truther out there that says fire can't melt steel(when for the buildings all it had to do was weaken), recall to them the hinderburg steel frame blimp that burned(hydrogen doesn't even burn as hot or as long as all the plastics do in a contained building), or for instance any old lumber yard that catches fire(like a weekly event) they normally have an open steel frame cover, they melt very nicely, but the best thing is to have your truther buddy hold a wad of steel wool, and they must hold it as you light it and have them explain their full theory of how steel can't melt in fire.
lunaticcringeradio
I will confess.
August 30, 2009 - 21:53 ET by superconI watched the film Loose Change. It was interesting but in the end I was not convinced. Those two towers were absolutely slammed by two fully loaded 747's filled with fuel. It was amazing that they stood as long as they did. After the crashes those two towers became the world's biggest blast furnaces and any piece of steel inside would have began to melt.
" if Republicans are able to stop Barack Obama on health care, 'it will be his Waterloo, it will break him...." -Sen. Jim DeMint
767s
August 30, 2009 - 22:22 ET by UnsaneNot to nitpick, but those were in fact two fully loaded 767s. I can only imagine what would happen if 747-400s hit them.
Back in the 1960s when they were designed, the largest commercial planes in the world at the time were the 707 and the DC-8. The events of 11 September 2001 were literally beyond imagining for those who designed and built the towers.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
yes and the designers ASSUMED they would be full flaps
August 30, 2009 - 23:39 ET by upcountrywaterIn the fog or what not not raging at 400 KTS
No we are never going to get to another planet..
It's over, fun while it lasted...1972 last man out of Earth's orbit...
Eugene "Geno" Cernan.
Thanks for your service.....
it's all back to camping now....no flush, no showers, no refigeration and it's NOT a 3 hour tour..
State controlled health care is Tort Reform.
Steel did not have to melt.
August 31, 2009 - 03:45 ET by JWFThis is the insaneness of the 9/11 truthers. Steel only has to soften and lose a portion of it's tensile strength. Much as candle wax gets soft at temperatures lower than the actual melting point of wax.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
You are correct. Burning
August 31, 2009 - 08:16 ET by BDYou are correct. Burning at moderate temperature will ruin the strength of steel which is why tanks and othered armored fighting vehicles that burn are relegated to the scrap heap following a battle rather than being rebuilt.
You will also note tank gun barrels from these burned vehilce noticably droop towards the ground.
The World Tade Center buildings reacted just like a burned tank.
I wonder if this will be
August 30, 2009 - 21:57 ET by G. MayI wonder if this will be required viewing for the 33% of democrats that think it was an inside job.
Personally, I've always felt that debunking truthers was a little like arguing with message board trolls. It's absurd in the extreme to think that our 'supercompetent' government could pull this off in the first place.
Then the absurdity continues when you assume our government could actually do this - kill thousands of its own taxpayers and make it look like terrorists did it - but this same uber-competent government lacks the balls to kill a couple of college students who blow the whole thing wide open with a multimedia laptop and an internet connection.
About time!!!!
August 30, 2009 - 21:58 ET by BEGRUNTI doubt it will shut up "truthers".
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Here is a conspiracy theory:
August 30, 2009 - 22:35 ET by needleCertain liberals hate Bush, Cheney, etc with a consuming passion (sorry about the apparent pun). They cook up (oops) one theory tying their hate objects to this heinous atrocity; and when that does not work, they cook up another (oops again). They start with their much needed conclusion, and then work bass-ackwards pushing and tugging on the puzzle pieces like hell to make them flesh out their kooked up theories, because the one thing – perhaps the only thing – they know for sure is that their hate object must be to blame for 9/11.
Oh, and a key element is that all of these explanations are first and foremost rational, because, you know, liberals (a heavy preponderance of whom are college professors in this case) are “smart” (don’t cha know), and not like those other people.
All this lends substantiation to another theory; namely, that Liberalism is a sickness.
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
Next episode
August 30, 2009 - 21:58 ET by FlatlinerEpisode 2 should be on global warming (sic). There seems to be a strong correlation between truthers and global warming true believers.
LOL Fl... That's what I
August 30, 2009 - 22:02 ET by bigtimerLOL Fl...
That's what I was saying above...GMTA. ;-)
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Bill O'Reilly believes in
August 30, 2009 - 23:41 ET by 24enakBill O'Reilly believes in global warming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmRRQxbQ1o) There is no correlation between those who believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and those that believe in global warming. One is true (global warming) the other is false (9/11 was a conspiracy).
(yawn)
August 30, 2009 - 23:43 ET by Free Stinker(yawn)
Wow.......
August 30, 2009 - 23:59 ET by BEGRUNTwoop de do....................
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
backwards kane the probaly idiot troll is not worth a response.
August 31, 2009 - 03:39 ET by JWFI will just use an old post.
Can we please talk about my local warming problem now.
August 20, 2009 - 01:28 ET by JWF
Forget global, what about local?
Last night at 3:00 am, it was 65 degrees.
Today at 3:00 pm, it was 85 degrees.
That is 20 degrees of warming in 12 hours people!
That is ultra scary oh dear sweet mana in heaven somebody stop the madness I am scared! At this rate, we will all be dead in 4 days.
Don't tell me a front came through because none did.
First explain it. Then stop it. Now. Wait, I... Oh I am verklempt again.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Omigod -- sounds like
August 31, 2009 - 04:21 ET by Jack BauerOmigod -- sounds like you're cooked dude. That crazy yo-yo temperature effect is gonna kill ya.
Mother Gaia sure sound pissed with you. I don't know what's causing it but I will instantly believe the craziest idea possible.
Probably a good Program
August 30, 2009 - 22:04 ET by evilcontractorProbably a good program to watch, but will have no impact on the conspiracy nuts. They will not believe anything other than our gov't (mostly G.W. Bush and that wild man Cheney) executed the attacks in order to invade Iraq. It's a shame really.
www.btreasures.com
Let's give
August 30, 2009 - 22:11 ET by DeskpilotFox News a run for it's ratings in this time slot, to watch this. Be interesting to see the dynamic shift, just to be armed with more truth. I think Fox's advvertisers could handle the truth of a days loss of viewers.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, You're welcome - Deskpilot, AM(H)1 (AW), USN (Ret)
Personally, I'm not one of
August 30, 2009 - 22:17 ET by RR GOPPersonally, I'm not one of these who like to automatically discount any and all conspiracy theories so that I can feel superior to others.
JFK/Dallas, Roswell, Obama BC...all those stink to high heaven in my book.
But with 9-11 I just can't see it.
The Leftards can't have it both ways-if Bush used 9-11 as an excuse to go into Iraq they argue that Saddam had nothing to do with that attack. If they argue that Bush knew about 9-11 ahead of time but did nothing so that he could invade Iraq...see my point?
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
RR... I do...and I agree
August 30, 2009 - 22:37 ET by bigtimerRR...
I do...and I agree in all aspects of your points.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
eh
August 30, 2009 - 22:21 ET by candanceThere are none so blind as those who will not see.
I don't really give a crap
August 30, 2009 - 22:24 ET by ConservativeRexI don't really give a crap what 'truthers' believe. I don't argue with them. Let them argue their points. Then you really do know who the nutcases are. Nothing could be easier, and it removes all doubt about who is trustworthy.
Withdrawn...misread
August 30, 2009 - 22:53 ET by RR GOPOne of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Question:
August 30, 2009 - 22:49 ET by needleDoes it help if one’s resume shows that he/she is a “truther” for getting a position on certain college and university faculties?
- Relying upon the State Run Media for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
9-11
August 30, 2009 - 23:36 ET by ObatimizedNational Geographic needs to let the "Loose Change" assholes have first screening.
Remember, Obama's brother still lives in a hut.
National Geographic had
August 30, 2009 - 23:53 ET by 24enakNational Geographic had another great show on tonight called "The Human Family Tree" that took DNA samples of thousands of people from all over the globe and mapped their migration all the way back to Africa some 60,000 years ago. Very interesting show, which found out that every human on Earth shares 99.9 % the same DNA.
Wow. As if everyone
August 30, 2009 - 23:56 ET by Free StinkerWow. As if everyone descended from a single pair of humans or something like that?
Sounds familiar . . . ;-)
Hmmmm Free.....I think.....
August 31, 2009 - 00:01 ET by BEGRUNTyour on to something............ :-)
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Beg... Me too...miracles
August 31, 2009 - 00:08 ET by bigtimerBeg...
Me too...miracles do happen.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Good evening Free
August 31, 2009 - 00:18 ET by cocodrieExcuse me for horning in but I had a moment of weakness there.
24 is definitely a honey flavored life saver.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
coco... LMAO! Good
August 31, 2009 - 00:20 ET by bigtimercoco...
LMAO!
Good one...
I do remember ya know. ;-)
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
Well, not quite "everyone" -
August 31, 2009 - 11:01 ET by SickofLibsI know a few people who must come from that 0.1% (but I'm giving out any names)
Good evening 24
August 31, 2009 - 00:14 ET by cocodrieI didn't figure that National Geographic would be the one to come up with scientific proof that we all descended from Adam and Eve.
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
Thank you.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
60,000 years ago? The show
August 31, 2009 - 00:19 ET by 24enak60,000 years ago? The show didn't mention any religious beliefs, just science, just the facts.
24
August 31, 2009 - 00:32 ET by cocodrieThat's the whole point, Honey. Your scientific facts prove our religious beliefs beyond doubt.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
So Adam and Eve were created
August 31, 2009 - 00:37 ET by 24enakSo Adam and Eve were created 60,000 years ago and were black?
they were Polynessian . .
August 31, 2009 - 00:38 ET by Free Stinkerthey were Polynessian . . .
Their birth certificates
August 31, 2009 - 01:00 ET by JerTheir birth certificates are forgeries.
Jer
Jer, Good shot at the
August 31, 2009 - 15:10 ET by LiberalliesJer,
Good shot at the Birthers. I don't agree with you politically, but your post made me smile.
Thanks Liberallies...
August 31, 2009 - 16:44 ET by JerThanks Liberallies...
Actually I wish a reporter would just stand up and ask Obama the following:
Is there a long form birth certificate on file in Honolulu in addition to the document that has been made public?
If so, does the registrar have the statutory power to release the long form if you authorize it?
If so, then why the hell don't you just go ahead and authorize it?
One possibility: There is inconclusive or ambiguous information on the document which would just lead to more questions and endless speculation.
Another possibility: I have read and heard comments by "birthers" that even if the long form establishes a Hawaiian birth, it will be because it is a clever forgery by Obama and his fellow conspirators. They will continue to believe he is Kenyan no matter what is produced.
Jer
Jer, as I posted on another
August 31, 2009 - 23:24 ET by MikeBJer, as I posted on another website, if Obama had done like McCain and just produced a birth certificate when the question came up, I'd have said, "Oh, sh*t, the commie s.o.b. is qualified to run." But, since he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep the birth certificate hidden, and it has been several months since the question came up, you are right: if he produced one now, I would not believe it, because he has had so much time to produce a good forgery.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
24
August 31, 2009 - 00:45 ET by cocodrieYour scientists make up these time frames and change them as they see fit. All of their "facts" are their own dreams and fantasies based on their own preconceived theories, none of which has ever been close to being proven. The localities are also based on the same preconceived nonsense.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Fossils, heard of them?
August 31, 2009 - 00:58 ET by 24enakFossils, heard of them? Carbon dating? Half lives? That is how scientist know the time frames. Never been proven? Are you serious? Obviously you have never watch National Geographic.
24
August 31, 2009 - 01:20 ET by cocodrieIn my 70 years I have seen the half-lives change, the carbon dating to be proven inaccurate, many fossils be proven to be fakes and fabrications, and the National Geographic programs to be as truthful as the devil himself. Nothing about evolution or your unrecorded historical data has ever been proven.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
I think that is back words
August 31, 2009 - 09:43 ET by 24enakI think that is back words in the last 70 years things have become more accurate with more advanced technology in DNA and genome studies. Many fossils? so all them Dinosaur fossils are fake? What about God has ever been proven?
Slowly backing away from 24.......
August 31, 2009 - 10:17 ET by BEGRUNTawaiting the lightning strike..........
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
→ enak
August 31, 2009 - 11:37 ET by Cool ArrowWhat do Dinosaurs have to do with whether God exists?
I'm missing your point here.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
prove he doesn't
August 31, 2009 - 11:54 ET by katainkentthen you'll have something.
___________________________________________
"Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller" Barack Obama (Dr. In Chief)
Good morning 24
September 1, 2009 - 09:07 ET by cocodrieThere have been many advances, especially computers.
Some scientists have concluded that it is mathematically impossible for some things to have evolved within the alloted time frames.
If you are wrong you will be all dressed up in your coffin with nowhere to go. Then again, you may be in for a bumpy downhill ride.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Which scientists? This show
September 1, 2009 - 10:48 ET by 24enakWhich scientists? This show didn't talk much about evolution, it just addressed and traced the migration of modern humans.
I guess I will know if I'm wrong will that time comes, until then I will believe what I will believe.
Watch the show tonight at 8:00 central time and form your own opinion about it. National Geographic.
Nice twisting 24
September 1, 2009 - 18:02 ET by cocodrieStill believing in fairy tales, Honey?
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
You have a lot to learn, kane42
August 31, 2009 - 08:25 ET by Unsane...and obviously you have a LOT to learn about science. I realize you substitute science for religion (and His Majesty The Shahinshah for God), but here is the problem: science is zero guarantee against being dead wrong.
People on both sides of the fence - such as you - do not understand that what you so religiously believe in is a theory. Theories can be quite easily disproven. This is supposed to be the great thing about science - it can come up with explanations, but can be proven wrong, and corrected.
Just like global warming - a theory. But many out there religiously believe it, because it gives them a vehicle to strangle and destroy the world's most powerful and advanced economy in the name of their own personal guilt. But it's just a theory.
You still don't buy that science can be wrong? Just look at the Ptolemaic model of the solar system. That was clung to by science for 2500 years before Copernicus, then Kepler, and then finally Newton, provided something new. And even then, the heliocentric model was fought valiantly for many years.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
clarification
August 31, 2009 - 09:06 ET by lotrScience, properly understood, merely provides the best possible mechanistic explanations for phenomena, based upon careful observation and measurement, along with logic and reasoning. The Ptolemaic model of the solar system, while now considered incorrect, was, in fact, a superb model for its time (and we are talking centuries). It was quantitative, and it did a darn good job at describing and predicting the positions of planets in the night sky (considering that there were no telescopes yet). The same goes with many of today's theories, including the Standard Model and anthropogenic global warming.
"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann
Still wrong
August 31, 2009 - 11:29 ET by UnsaneThe Ptolemaic model of the solar system, while now considered incorrect, was, in fact, a superb model for its time (and we are talking centuries). It was quantitative, and it did a darn good job at describing and predicting the positions of planets in the night sky (considering that there were no telescopes yet). And it was wrong.
The same goes with many of today's theories, including the Standard Model and anthropogenic global warming. Not really. You beloved AGW theory cannot explain to me why it snowed in a region that rarely gets it in Christmas 2004 (in a time where I have been repeatedly assured since I was in middle school would be apocalyptically hot), what has been causing glaciers to melt since before the industrial age, among other things. Not to mention all the suggested "cures" for it all involve strangling the world's most powerful and advanced economy while letting everyone else off virtually scot-free.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
You answer your own
August 31, 2009 - 12:04 ET by 24enakYou answer your own question.
Whenever people who disagree with global warming always say 'it snowed in Las Vegas, so thus global warming is false.' or 'It was cold today in my region, so thus global warming is false.' It is called global warming and not regional warming for a reason.
One abnormally cold or abnormally hot day in a region doesn't prove or disprove global warming. Global warming is determined through global temperatures averages.
The earth has gone through periods of warming and cooling before the industrial age and before humans ruled the world. The problem today is the rate of warming, that the average temperature has increase 1 degree since the middle of the 1900's. A increase in temperature isn't the issue as much as it is the rate of the change. If the temperature changes quickly then the inhabitants of Earth will not be able to adapt to the changes. That is the fear behind global warming.
Should I move? Is this area
August 31, 2009 - 12:08 ET by JWFShould I move? Is this area of America haunted?August 20, 2009 - 07:07 ET by JWF
Last week, I walked outside and it was as though the skin on my arms and face were cooking. Not fast frying cooking but a real slow heating. Like a ghost was blowing heat on my face.
There is a safe area in my yard where I can escape this inexplicable phenomenon. Under an apple tree 50 feet from my house. I think the apples scare away the ghosts.
Is there some area of the country that is safe from this weird local warming predicament?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
→ JWF
August 31, 2009 - 12:12 ET by Cool ArrowIt's happening here too.
There is this orb of fire that haunts the dark sky. Only you can't see the dark sky because of that giant ball of fire that illuminates it.
This has been happening almost every morning since as far back as I can remember.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
just out of curiosity
August 31, 2009 - 12:10 ET by katainkentwhen did we first start accurately recording tempratures within a degree?
___________________________________________
"Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller" Barack Obama (Dr. In Chief)
Try some critical thinking instead of talking down to people
August 31, 2009 - 21:06 ET by UnsaneYou answer your own question. Thanks for clarifying what i already figured out, kane42: you hate critical thinking and when confronted by one who asks that you do it, you fail, fail miserably and fail every single time.
One abnormally cold or abnormally hot day in a region doesn't prove or disprove global warming. Global warming is determined through global temperatures averages. Actually, no it isn't. It is figured out on a wide variety of factors. I hate to break your heart, but we are a LONG way from figuring out the climatology and weather patterns of this planet. If we can't even figure out why exactly clouds form, and how clouds form (for one example), how can you expect us to figure out climate and weather?
Whenever people who disagree with global warming always say 'it snowed in Las Vegas, so thus global warming is false.' or 'It was cold today in my region, so thus global warming is false.' It is called global warming and not regional warming for a reason. Ah, but whenever a Cat-5 hurricane occurs or a record heat wave occurs, people like you who religiously follow the global warming theory like dogma jump up and down petulantly screaming "SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! SEE! Global warming is a fact!!! It's ALL because of GLOBAL WARMING!!!"
At least this makes sense. I am repeatedly, constantly assured that the planet is getting unbearably hot and it portends the apocalypse. I was warned 20 years ago that we had 20 years left. (I look around me and see I'm still here and continue typing.) I am being told that temps are increasing around the world, and thus make the astounding leap of logic that the state of TX, which rarely (if ever) gets snow and ice, especially in the southern reaches of the state, would even MORE rarely get ice and snow. Well, the last decade alone has put the lie to that.
For some odd reason, in this era of global warming, ice storms still visit south TX, as in January 2007. Just over two years before it snowed south and east of San Antonio, an area which itself rarely gets snow!
I have traveled the world extensively and have witnessed other phenomena occur elsewhere that pretty much destroys your whine that I am relying on a single weather event or instance in a single geographical locality.
The biggest problem by far is that I think critically and am often faced with people like you who refuse to. Is something happening to the world's climate? Maybe. Is man responsible? Perhaps. But seeing how damned little we know about Earth, it's impossible to say.
Try to think critically sometime, kane42. You might learn something. You might even be forced to reconsider a lot of what you think.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Penn Jilette's questions.
August 31, 2009 - 21:48 ET by JWFIs it happening?
Did we cause it?
Is it bad?
Can we fix it?
Is government-forced conservation the only way to fix it?
JWF has some too.
What is the optimal temperature of the planet? Why is no one asking the countries on the equator if they would like it cooler? Why is no one asking the polar countries if they would like it warmer?
Why is no one talking about the deep solar minimum of 2009? The missus wanted me to turn on the heat last night in August!
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
One more question
August 31, 2009 - 22:01 ET by JWF24enak the idiot: The problem today is the rate of warming, that the average temperature has increase 1 degree since the middle of the 1900's.
Does the idiot realize his 1 degree has been wiped out in 1 year?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
"And it was wrong."
August 31, 2009 - 12:09 ET by lotrThat's one way of phrasing it, although it is misleading. One could also say Newtonian gravity is "wrong." Does that mean we can jump out of airplanes without a parachute, or that we can just do away with airplanes altogether?
Of course it can't. AGW is a prediction, based on radiation balance, for future global climate (i.e., large space and time scales); it is not a mesoscale weather prediction model. Oh, and BTW, it isn't "my" theory and it isn't my "beloved" either. And neither have I suggested anywhere at anytime on NB that we need to "cure" the Earth Mother by strangling the American economy; just the opposite, in fact.
"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann
Wrong is wrong
August 31, 2009 - 21:13 ET by UnsaneThat's one way of phrasing it, although it is misleading. No it isn't. The Ptolemaic model was wrong, unless you can show me how the solar system suddenly became heliocentric in 1543. It really isn't my fault you cannot get around the very basic premise of the Ptolemaic model which makes it horribly wrong.
AGW is a prediction, based on radiation balance, for future global climate (i.e., large space and time scales); it is not a mesoscale weather prediction model. So, let me get this straight: we can't figure out what the weather is going to be 5 days from today, but I am supposed to have total blind faith in a model which shows what climates are going to be like 50-100 years in the future??? I have serious problems with this that go beyond variables no model can take into account.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
1. You seem to fail to
August 31, 2009 - 22:38 ET by lotr1. You seem to fail to understand what science is. Science is not mathematics, nor does it claim to be. Theories can be superceded; but good theories represent the very best of our knowledge at a given time. And Ptolemy's model was very good; the best of it's time, in fact; so good that would not be "superceded" for centuries. And you neglected to address what I said. According to you, we no longer need airplanes, since Newtonian gravitiy is "wrong" also.
2. Again, the two problems are distinct from one another. Numerical weather prediction is determinstic, which means that it requires precise initial conditions -- it is an initial value problem. Climate models, on the other hand, provide a description of mean states -- not all the myriad deviations from the mean, which is what "weather" is.
3. I'm not here to convince anyone on climate science -- I gave up on that a long time ago. However, I do not like seeing misconceptions about science from either side. It is not a panacea and it is no substitute for God (as the Left likes to promote); nor is it "worthless" because theories inevitable turn up "wrong" (like Ptolemy).
"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann
Yes, the Ptolemaic model
August 31, 2009 - 23:34 ET by MikeBYes, the Ptolemaic model was very good. Yes, it was the best of its time. Yes, it was promulgated for a couple of thousand years. BUT, IT WAS WRONG! It was a theory that tried to explain, and seemed to explain, reality, but it was wrong. AGW is a theory; it is only a theory. And, much of the evidence is against the theory. Many of the predictions of the warmers have not come true. The warmers' models cannot even come up with present conditions when they use current assumptions and historical data. It is a bad theory.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
You seem to fail to
September 1, 2009 - 21:43 ET by UnsaneYou seem to fail to understand what science is. Science is not mathematics, nor does it claim to be. Theories can be superceded; but good theories represent the very best of our knowledge at a given time. And Ptolemy's model was very good; the best of it's time, in fact; so good that would not be "superceded" for centuries. You seem deeply obsessed with this for some odd reason. I understand completely what science is, and science will wave the BS flag every so often.
The Ptolemaic theory is based on the premise that the earth is the center of the universe. Since we know that the earth is NOT the center of the universe, the premise of the Ptolemaic model is destroyed. Hence, IT IS WRONG. Keep swearing up and down about how great and wonderful it was, but until you can show me that the solar system suddenly became heliocentric in 1543, IT WAS AND IS WRONG.
If you STILL wish to argue this point...well, time to read a quotation from a book I found inspiring at a young age, in a section devoted to those who worked at the Alexandrian Library:
"...and the astronomer and geographer Ptolemy, who compiled much of what is today the pseudoscience of astrology; his Earth-centered universe held sway for 1500 years, a reminder that intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
- Carl Sagan (1934-1996), from Cosmos, page 20 (hardcover edition
And you neglected to address what I said. According to you, we no longer need airplanes, since Newtonian gravitiy is "wrong" also. Huh?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Newtonian gravity, in your
September 2, 2009 - 13:51 ET by lotrNewtonian gravity, in your wording, is "wrong." Does that mean we can do away with parachutes and airplanes, which are both designed assuming Newtonian gravity? It's a simple yes/no question.
Since you won't answer it, the point is that Newtonian gravity explains a wide range of phenomena with amazing precision. All of classical physics to this day assumes Newtonian gravity, because for the macroscale (the realm of classical mechanics) it is true. However, its range of applicability is not as universal as once believed -- it fails under certain circumstances/conditions. Thus, it is no longer a universally valid theory.
A scientific theory is merely something that describes phenomena by deducing principles from patterns in observed phenomena then inducing that the principles are universal. Should we find future phenomena that don't adhere to the theory (something that will always be a possibility), then the theory needs to be reworked. If the original theory was any good to begin with, then the new theory needs to adhere to the original theory in the realm where it was good. In the case of Ptolemy's model, it turns out that motion is relative, so a model in which the earth is the center can indeed have predictive power. Ptolemy's theory was good (the best at one time), and it thus served its purpose, even if it is now no longer considered "valid," and "better" ones have since come along. I just take issue with saying "Ptolemy was wrong" as if to imply that science is therefore worthless.
Oh, and I hate to say this, but I don't really have a lot of respect for Carl Sagan (outside of his astronomical research), so his quote doesn't really have a lot of impact on me. He was a scientist who worshipped the Idol of Science, something that I find repugnant.
"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann
Science and sciencentists
August 31, 2009 - 10:29 ET by 24enakScience and sciencentists begin with theories or a hypothesis then test their theories. Galileo, Copernicus and others came up with theories that the Earth wasn't the center of the solar system, that the Earth revolved around the sun, which was an opposing view to that of the church. Their theories have been proven to be fact.
There are things about religion that can be disproved, like Earth being created in six days, some 6,000 years ago, the Earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old.
Can you disprove evolution? If it can be quite easily disproved. What you say is great about science-it can come up with explanations, but can be proven wrong, and corrected-can be said about religion.
Like Bill O'Reilly said global warming is a fact, what's debatable is what is causing global warming whether it is humans or if the earth is on a cycle of warming. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmRRQxbQ1o)
With your Copernicus example it was the church that disagreed with his theory that the Sun, not the Earth, at the center of the solar system for hundreds of years. You still don't think religion can be wrong?
What you say is great
August 31, 2009 - 10:55 ET by Jack BauerErr, no. Your addendum about religion is incorrect. Religion is not open to scientific experiment to refute.
That is the very difference between religious faith (a belief in God) and scientific discovery.
I personally believe that Karl Popper proposed the true sceintific method, which is "falsifaction." Put simply, part of the idea is that we cannot see the future, so we cannot prove anything scientifically, only refute what has been theorized or hypothosized.
Silliness
August 31, 2009 - 11:42 ET by UnsaneWith your Copernicus example it was the church that disagreed with his theory that the Sun, not the Earth, at the center of the solar system for hundreds of years. You still don't think religion can be wrong? Ah, but it was a scientist, not a religious figure, that promulgated it. By the way, are you making the assumption I am religious? If you are, permit me to completely disabuse you of that notion.
Science and sciencentists begin with theories or a hypothesis then test their theories. Galileo, Copernicus and others came up with theories that the Earth wasn't the center of the solar system, that the Earth revolved around the sun, which was an opposing view to that of the church. Their theories have been proven to be fact. Typical Leftist - doing everything in their power to insult the intelligence of others. Unlike you, my high school days are deep in my rear view mirror (thank the Shahinshah). One thing you completely miss is how very very very few theories become law, or fact.
There are things about religion that can be disproved, like Earth being created in six days, some 6,000 years ago, the Earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old. We think it is 4.5 billion years old. It could be considerably older. It might be younger. And, to delve in theology...was the day 24 hours long? Was it 5 billion years long? What is time to God? What does that mean, exactly?
Like Bill O'Reilly said global warming is a fact, what's debatable is what is causing global warming whether it is humans or if the earth is on a cycle of warming. What Bill O'Reilly says doesn't mean quite so much to me. He's just a Right-leaning populist. Besides, if this global warming thing is indeed a fact as you insist while jumping up and down petulantly, please explain why is snow in deep south Texas for Christmas 2004. Or why the ice showed up on the shores of the Arctic in July 2004 to herald the freezing of the water. Or why other cities around the world that rarely receive snow such as Buenos Aires, Johannesburg, and Baghdad have recently gotten snow in recent years. See, these events aren't supposed to be happening at all, if one believes that global warming is happening and is an immutable fact. Events like that are supposed to become rarer.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
→ enak
August 31, 2009 - 11:49 ET by Cool ArrowThe Bible does not state the Earth was created 6,000, or even 7,000 years ago.
You're listening to what you've been told rather than researching the writing.
Please, don't be a fool. I say that with a different intention than you may infer.
Now that you've been advised, you have a duty to settle this matter before taking your atheism another step.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
That number is an estimate
August 31, 2009 - 12:20 ET by 24enakThat number is an estimate many have speculated using the timeline in the scriptures.
I would call myself agnostic, not atheists. I believe that it is impossible to know it there is a God, or not a God. I will not tell you that 'there is no God' if you don't tell me 'there is a God'. There may be a God in the way Christians believe, there may be Gods in the way Hindus believe. My point of view of religion is how does anyone know which one is right. How do you know Native American gods aren't real, or the Greek gods, or the Egyptian gods, or any other religious beliefs are false.
→ enak
August 31, 2009 - 12:34 ET by Cool ArrowThat number is an estimate many have speculated using the timeline in the scriptures.
Yes, they speculated, and they were wrong. I think there's plenty of evidence, scientific and Scriptural, that the Earth existed long before the 6 days of Creation.
This is not the first inhabitancy of Earth.
If you had read just the first 28 verses of the Bible, you would have come face to face with your first of several contradictions to what "many have speculated"
Sorry enak, you show all the signs of being a follower of convenience rather than a seeker of truth.
Just 28 verses into the Book, and you never bothered. How brilliant you must be?
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
I don't care what Bill
August 31, 2009 - 15:33 ET by NL207I don't care what Bill O'Reilly says. He isn't anymore conversant in science than Al Gore.
What's disturbing is the fact that it isn't warming and hasn't been for the last several years. In fact, THIS summer, for much of the Northern Hemisphere at least, has been one of the coldest on record. In my region, we experienced the coldest July since record keeping began, 1850. June wasn't much better, third coldest. August is on track to become one of the coldest as well.
Conditions are much the same across Northern Europe and Asia. About the only place that has been noticebly warmer than normal is the Pacific Northwest.
I will be very interested to see what aggregate number the NOAA publishes for the year.
" There are things about
August 31, 2009 - 17:51 ET by MikeB" There are things about religion that can be disproved, like Earth being created in six days, some 6,000 years ago, the Earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old." Oh, really? Where in the Bible does it say that the earth was created in six twenty-four hour days? Gen 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." It was after this creation that the creative days commenced. Human history, or Biblical history may have started 6000 years ago, but that does not imply that the world was created 6000 years ago. Yes, Genesis does mention several times that "and there came to be an evening and there came to be a morning, the nth day". Now, does that mean that that creative day was 24 hours long? The 90th Psalm states that, "... a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, ans as a watch in the night." This one verse alone compares a thousand years as one day (yesterday) and as "a watch in the night" (about 4 hours).
I love how the "higher critics" make a flat out statement such as "there was no King of Israel named David as is told in the Bible", and then, when proved wrong through archeology have to crawfish with "...but, he was only a mountain king, yada, yada, yada." These same types stated categorically, "there was no King Senacherib", "there were no Hittites", etc. Time after time they have been proven wrong, whereas the Bible has never been proved wrong.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Unsane or anyone, I have a question-
August 31, 2009 - 17:07 ET by BO STINKSDon't mean to derail this argument, cause it's very interesting; but:
I read about a scientist who had a theory that carbon dating was extremely inaccurate because of a certain bacteria that grows on ancient artifacts. The bacteria skews the carbon dating by anywhere from 100 to thousands of years. Have you heard of this? I also read that the man was soundly put down and humiliated by the scientific community rather than his theories studied.
"...it must be known that we are at all times ready for war." G. Washington
BO STINKS yes and no..
August 31, 2009 - 19:45 ET by upcountrywaterThe only time I heard of this was in regards to the Shroud of Turin.
YES...
Leoncio Garza-Valdes, a Texas
pediatrician and amateur archeologist, and Stephen Mattingly of the
University of Texas offered another suggestion. They claimed that they found
an organic bioplastic contamination on the Shroud that would not have been
removed with the cleaning process that the labs had used.
"There is a bioplastic coating on
some threads, maybe most." Gove goes on to say that if there is a
sufficient quantity of bioplastic it "would make the fabric sample seem
younger than it should be" in the carbon 14 dating.
NO..
But the bioplastic idea came up
short. Garza-Valdes had said: "With a scanning electron microscope, I found
the fibers were completely covered by the bioplastic coating (polyhydroxyalkanoate)
and by many colonies of fungi which usually thrive on this polymer..."
BTW
The current state of the technology is
useful for dating things younger than 50,000 years. For material that is
only a few thousand years old, carbon 14 dating is very accurate and very
reliable.
SKEWED.
Even assuming that the coating
formed all at once in the 20th Century during a highfallout time, when
bomb-produced 14C was high, an observable error in the age determination
would require the addition of a significant amount of material to the
surface of the Shroud.
State controlled health care is Tort Reform.
Thanks Up, appreciate the hard work you did for the research.
September 1, 2009 - 18:19 ET by BO STINKS"...it must be known that we are at all times ready for war." G. Washington
I find that time frame way
August 31, 2009 - 04:22 ET by Jack BauerI find that time frame way too short and unconvincing to account for the striking racial type differences between people.
How does this time frame fit in with another recent study which traced our common ancestory back FIVE MILLION years to one female called Eve?
That's a rhetorical question, I don't expect you to have the answer.
"The Human Family Tree"
August 31, 2009 - 11:02 ET by 24enak"The Human Family Tree" traced "modern" humans (homo sapiens) not other species of hominid's which are millions of years old.
The show explained the racial differences through adaptation. As dark skinned humans migrated out of Africa they became lighter in complexion because of lack of sun light. The dark skin reduced the damage of the sun's ray's.
They traced migration from Africa to the middle east then some went south to India some northeast to central Asia, then some from central Asia went to Europe some went to east Asia. From Asia some went south to Indonesia and Australia, some went north and crossed the land/ice bridge into North America. Then they went south and east to become Native American Indians.
Of the thousands they tested 35% of the African Americans had European ancestry in they genome. The show will be on again tomorrow night Tuesday Sept. 1st.
The difference in climate
August 31, 2009 - 11:22 ET by Jack BauerThe difference in climate between vast parts of Africa and southern Europe is precisely ZERO.
The distance between Spain (Europe) and Morocco (Africa) is 15 miles. That would suggst that African genetic types would have settled southern Europe, would it not? Seeing that the amount of sun, and heat is about the same.
60,000 years is (in my opinion) too short a time to explain MAJOR genetic differences such as bone structure, skull size and shape, and skin shades. Or their global distributions. It sounds way too simplistic and unconvincing.
You are incapable of even beginning to answer my rhetorical question. You lack the knowledge. And it's not actually your job. Why must you insist on trying?
I guess you're just not skeptical enough about received "wisdom."
Yes, but going into Europe
August 31, 2009 - 11:53 ET by 24enakYes, but going into Europe from Central Asia Spain isn't the first "stop". The early humans didn't sail across the Mediterranean sea they went through the middle east, then central Asia, then through eastern Europe over thousands of years and many generations.
Aren't people who have been in Spain and Italy for many generation darker in complexion than those of Northern Europe like England and Germany? Bone structure, skull size and shape hasn't changed much in modern humans.
It will sound very simplistic coming from me, watch the show again Tuesday Sept. 1st on National Geographic.
The early humans didn't
August 31, 2009 - 12:15 ET by Jack BauerSAYS WHO???
And OH sure. At a height of a small hill (300 feet) you can SEE 20 miles on a clear day --- that's more than the distance from Africa to Spain.
I'm with you, Jack, and the fossil record proves it...
August 31, 2009 - 12:32 ET by SickofLibsThe recently unearthed remains of prehistoric 'Enak Man' were discovered next to crude coconut rafts.
ha ha... funny dude
August 31, 2009 - 12:41 ET by Jack Bauerha ha... funny dude Enakdecino Man.
I believe in skepticism.
It's seems like to me that big brained late early humans of 60,000 years ago were more likely to figure out some way of crossing 15 miles of open water than walking.
Then my reasonable question is: why are not southern Europeans genetically African with African physical racial traits.
I think it absurd to believe our genetic diversity as shown in physical characteristics only dates back 60,000 years.
Just my skepticism.
IMO, many of these migration
August 31, 2009 - 12:56 ET by SickofLibsIMO, many of these migration theories are also based on the premise that early man could not swim or never figured out it was possible to float in order to catch a breather. And they were in a helluva lot better physical condition than we are, as in the case of Enak Man.
Take virtually any animal, even ones that have never even seen a body of water, drop them in over their heads and they'll figure out how to swim in about a minute.
→ SOL
August 31, 2009 - 13:00 ET by Cool Arrowenak is also supposing primitive man never saw a leaf float and allowed his imagination to take over.
Wow! Did you see that? That log floats!
Wonder what would happen if I tied some logs together?
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
"Grokk, mind if me borrow black monolith for a while?"
August 31, 2009 - 13:07 ET by SickofLibs"Grokk, mind if me borrow black monolith for a while?"
cool -- well, exactly!
August 31, 2009 - 13:17 ET by Jack Bauercool -- well, exactly! And as another point, who would your money be on to survive in the wild using only his brain and the land.
Some 20 year old Californian slacker -- or some early man 60,000 years ago?
"Uh-- dude... where's my iPod... can't survive without my stuff dude"
You do realize that "modern
August 31, 2009 - 13:22 ET by 24enakYou do realize that "modern man" believed in sea monsters 500 years ago, and that the Earth was flat and they would fall of the edge of the Earth when they reached the horizon. 500 years ago! imagine what man thought 60,000 years ago.
→ Yes, enak
August 31, 2009 - 13:31 ET by Cool ArrowI don't have much clue what "beings" thought 60,000 years ago.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
I'll field that one - "food"
August 31, 2009 - 14:12 ET by SickofLibsI'll field that one - "food"
Hey Cool,
August 31, 2009 - 21:55 ET by RESTLESS 1I've been thinking along the same lines myself. The elite establishment makes much of the idea that man was stupid until they came along. I saw during a show on Discovery or something where they posited that the Great Flood was actually a big tsunami. Like early man couldn't tell the difference between a big wave and massive amount of rainfall.
I imagine liberals think it went something like this:
Grok: "Wow. lotta water. Must be raining".
Cool liberal dude: "No, it was a wave. The sun is out. It's not raining"
Grok: "No, only rain make much water"
Cool liberal dude: "Dude, no, it was a big... want some kelp? No? Good. More for me. It was a big wave. We were lucky to get to the top of this hill before we were washed away"
Grok: "NO!!! It big rain."
Cool liberal dude: "Whatever man. Why don't you write a book or something. I'm going to bed. Hey, will you spoon me?"
At which point, Grok beat cool liberal dude with a club and killed him, thus the truth never came out.
"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest
They didn't go from Africa
August 31, 2009 - 13:15 ET by 24enakThey didn't go from Africa to Europe directly. They went through the middle east then central Asia then through the Ural mountains then into Eastern Europe, this was done over thousands of years and thousands of generations.
Watch the show, Tuesday Sept. 1st on National Geographic channel. They believe the lack of genetic diversity is from a catastrophic event.
So you believe THAT theory.
August 31, 2009 - 13:19 ET by Jack BauerSo you believe THAT theory. So frackin' what.
→ enak
August 31, 2009 - 13:20 ET by Cool ArrowNow you're stating this as a matter of fact.
And you believe it because somebody told you.
But that's not faith?
Your arguments are all based on faith in somebody else's research.
I'm not laughing. Really, I'm not.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
I have thought this before I
August 31, 2009 - 13:32 ET by 24enakI have thought this before I saw last night's show. We believe what we believe in large part to somebody else's research. I sure you believe/don't believe in global warming because of someone else's research, unless you have measured the temperature from all over the globe yourself. I'm sure you believe kangaroos are marsupials because of someone else's research.
I will always believe DNA because DNA hardly ever lies.
→ No
August 31, 2009 - 13:41 ET by Cool ArrowMy opinions on Global Warming go back before the existence of the phenomenon was pustulated. (intended)
Something about a symbiotic relationship between Breathing CO2 and feeding plants.
And kangaroos are marsupials as a stated classification by man. Criteria are met? Must be a marsupial. No faith involved there. Animals are classified by man's admitted conventions.
At some level, it's life.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
" They didn't go from
August 31, 2009 - 18:00 ET by MikeB" They didn't go from Africa to Europe directly..." who said they didn't? Did some archeologist find a 60000 year old newspaper with the headline "Explorer finds Europe by walking around the Mediterranean Sea through the Middle East"? Some archeologists and anthropologists think humans didn not go from Africa to Europe directly, but just because they think it and put it in writing doesn't make it fact.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Right SOL
August 31, 2009 - 12:42 ET by Cool ArrowAlso discovered was a prehistoric coconut crate believed to be the dwelling of KenyanObama man.
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
→ LOL - hey, what are you, paleolithic cool arrow...
August 31, 2009 - 13:01 ET by SickofLibs... before the discovery of the arrow?
→ Because you asked, SOL
August 31, 2009 - 13:08 ET by Cool ArrowMy forefathers, (not to be confused with the inner-village term "four-fathers") employed the use of something called the Atlatl.
Interesting invention. Some would say "Cool"
We will Barry you! - Russian prophecy
Cool:
August 31, 2009 - 13:48 ET by SickofLibsMy ancestors were more club people, but different strokes I guess.
(you do realize I was pointing out you omitted your arrow in the subject line, a phenomenon I had not previously seen)
Figures...you fat-cat Repu
August 31, 2009 - 14:05 ET by JerFigures...you fat-cat Republicans have always been club people.
Jer
I guess you aren't just
August 31, 2009 - 14:19 ET by NL207I guess you aren't just looking at the bag anymore? ;)
Thanks, NL... Now I've
August 31, 2009 - 14:29 ET by JerThanks, NL...
Now I've got potato chip crumbs all over my computer screen.
Jer
24... Yes, the project which
August 31, 2009 - 20:34 ET by celator24... Yes, the project which you are referring to is called the Genographic Project. Nat Geo is partnered on this project with IBM and has additional funding as well. I am one of the donors of DNA for the project.
The goal of the project is to map out the migration of the human family using DNA Markers, etc. The project is not complete yet, and DNA collections are going on around the world and being submitted for analysis.
In a nutshell, this is what they think they have. There were groups of humans living in river valleys (Indus, Amazon, Africa, Mesopotania areas, China, etc., well over 200,000 years ago. A major catastrophe, Nat Geo thinks it was the Suma Volcano in Indonesia, wiped out all the people living in the world, EXCEPT those in the area of the Rift Valley in East Africa--Tanzania, Ethiopia area.
As best they can figure out now, using the genetic markers, we all now descend from the people in that area of Africa, the only survivors of that huge catastrophe in Indonesia.
So in a sense, there was an "Adam" and an "Eve" from which we all descend, and in the material Nat Geo sent to me as a participant in their study, they use those terms.
These survivors seemed very different from their "cousins" in other parts of the world who were decimated by the volcano. They created sophisticated tools, understood the basic principles of agriculture, created art etc. They seemed far more advanced than those who lost their lives.
They began to migrate from the Rift Valley, following their animals who were foraging outward for food. There was a long period of Global Warming at the time, and the Sahara actually became grasslands, and thus feed for the animals. Much later on, we entered another Ice Age and the Sahara became impenetrable for them.
This is where it gets interesting. As they moved toward what is now roughly Israel, the groups broke up. Some went West, toward the Mediterranean and ultimately Europe, etc. Others split off East and migrated to Eurasia, Asia, China, and eventually Australia and the Pacific.
It would seem that, as DNA markers made their physical changes on these humans to accomodate cold weather, desert living, etc., we began to develop different physical characteristics.
There's is still a lot of work to be done on the project, but it is an extremely interesting piece of work.
My own results indicate that my ancestors went from the Rift Valley, north toward the Eastern Mediterranean area, then on to the islands off Greece, then to middle Europe.
The project keeps participants updated as new data is developed, so there will be more information sent to me as more participants' DNA is analyzed.
As an added bonus, you can plug in your DNA in the Family Tree genealogy site, and find people who "have" your DNA, more or less. Thus far there are four people who have my DNA pattern in the world.
This is way, way, way , way more than you wanted to know about all this, but you might find it interesting.
Here's the Genographic website:
https://genographic....
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Very interesting, I watched
August 31, 2009 - 21:48 ET by 24enakVery interesting, I watched the show one and a half times Sunday, and will probably watch it again Tuesday. I have visited the Genographic website and would love to submit my DNA and buy their kit, but not for 100 bucks, not right now.
the other foot
August 31, 2009 - 02:11 ET by RayRayhttp://www.youtube.c...
If you haven't seen it, it's "The Obama Deception", which contends that the financial powers who control the world groomed Obama all along, betting that reverse-racism would eventually be the dominant social trend - and so they could have their robot in the White House even when the populace got disenchanted with the typical candidates like Bushes and Clintons.
This conspiracy theory is part of the liberal disenchantment with Obama. Btw, the rappers shown are KRS-1 (whose reputation was always that of a 'thinking' person) and Griff (who was drummed out of "Public Enemy" for criticizing Jews, IIRC. "Public Enemy" were the ones with the video about killing the AZ governor for not wanting MLK Day).
--
Ideal term limits: one in office, one in jail.
Obama's 24/7 conspiracy
August 31, 2009 - 04:07 ET by Jack BauerOne thing is for sure... Obama is trying to bring down the USA with a controlled demolition.
And on, and on and on...
Twin Towers Conspiracy Bull
August 31, 2009 - 04:11 ET by sargex1What was the first joke ever told?
Was when Adam said to Eve "stand back I don't know how big this thing gets."
Maybe we are not looking at
August 31, 2009 - 06:41 ET by jeffinsacMaybe we are not looking at the same movie, but this looks like he is backing up some of the claims of the consparisy theories, not dispelling them. I looked at his fire claim and he states it is not scientificially possible for the building to collapse without some outside influence. Specifically look a:
http://channel.natio...
In otherwords NG is showing a truther movie, not dispelling the theories.
Not sure where you got this lead from, but you might want to check it out more because I believe it is what you presented here.
I is confused.
August 31, 2009 - 07:22 ET by JWFCould you please explain to the rest of the class what you are on about?
...he states it is not scientificially possible for the building to collapse without some outside influence. Yes. A 747 with a full load of fuel is most definitely an outside influence.
And please don't give us links to entire websites full of writings and videos as some kind of clue as to what you are on about.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
767
August 31, 2009 - 08:27 ET by UnsaneYou mean a 767 with a full load of fuel...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I is also old and fregretfulls
August 31, 2009 - 10:37 ET by JWFyes. also an outside influence.
JWF,
August 31, 2009 - 19:25 ET by R D Helm"Yes. A 747 with a full load of fuel is most definitely an outside influence."
Exactly, as well as the resulting damage to the exterior walls, which were the major load bearers for those two buildings, unlike "conventional" buildings, in which the weight of the structure is born primarily by a grid of interior columns.
-Dave
Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz
What movie are YOU
August 31, 2009 - 07:53 ET by ckc1227What movie are YOU watching? Didn't see this claim anywhere in the movie or at that link.
at end of show the National
August 31, 2009 - 07:50 ET by JAJTat end of show the National Geo should have pictures of all the conspiracy theory supporter idiots (like Rosie and others) and under the picture will be labeled "confirmed Idiots and Un-american".
It's unfortunate that they
August 31, 2009 - 07:58 ET by wiwfIt's unfortunate that they need to do a piece like this today, but it's really a shame that there still are some truthers out there. Hopefully they do a segment on birthers the following week.
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
"Hopefully they do a
August 31, 2009 - 08:12 ET by ckc1227"Hopefully they do a segment on birthers the following week."
Or Obama could just take 10 minutes to call Hawaii and tell them to release his long form birth certificate.
Conspirators everywhere!
August 31, 2009 - 08:56 ET by lotrEt tu Noel?
Don't believe what these conspirators say! If one carefully looks at all the footage, one can see lurking in the shadows behind the picket fence a man with a plunger and another in back of him with a 2-way radio. The north tower moved back and to the left, therefore proving that there must have been a detonation from the front. Bush was the mastermind, and everyone here is a conspirator, including the conspiracy theorists.
"Let's wrap him up, alright?" -- Keith Olbermann
Watching this right
August 31, 2009 - 20:59 ET by Free StinkerWatching this right now.
Good stuff !!
NBers
August 31, 2009 - 22:39 ET by Noel SheppardNBers,
So how did everyone like this show? ns
I thought it was very interesting, but...
August 31, 2009 - 22:57 ET by PrairieSkyI do wish that at the close of the show that NatGeo had just come out and denounced the "truthers" for the deluded loons that they are...They came close by touching on why conspiracy theorists think they way they do, and why they rarely, if ever, put forth their own reasons for how something happened. If they are challenged with facts that debunk their goofy theories, instead of trying to back up and defend their theories, they usually attack the facts with more looney conspiracy fantasies (a lot like liberals! lol!)
For me, the bottom line appears to be that these nuts hate the American government, no matter who is in charge of it...It's hate America first with them...Everything is America's fault, and they have twisted the truth behind what happened on 9/11 to fit their own insane view of America, our leaders and the world.
"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan
Well, according to
August 31, 2009 - 23:47 ET by MikeBWell, according to the program, the truthers who believe that the WTC was brought down by controlled explosions claim that access to the beams was from the elevator shafts when maintenance upgrades to the elevators was done. Okay, truthers, pay attention: that maintenance was done in 2000. Bush was not elected until November of 2000, and did not become President until January of 2001. Therefore, it was the Clinton administration that planted all the explosives. It was the Clinton administration that placed the communications walls between CIA and FBI so that our intelligence organs could not prevent the attacks. Hey, all you truthers! 911 was an inside job by the Clinton administration. I need to take some aspirin. Thinking like a conspiracy loon made my head hurt.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Sadly...
August 31, 2009 - 23:56 ET by PommeI have a relative who believes that it wasn't Bush, but the Clinton Administration that were the masterminds behind 9/11. You see, that was why Gore wanted to win the presidency so very badly!
While they were responsible for the lacking national security, I do not believe they would be that diabolical.
Although, you gotta admit, that aspect would be easier to believe for people who think GW Bush is an idiot, except it would undermine their personal deification of BJ Clinton.