'American Ideologues': Stewart Lampoons Cheney and Obama

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Comedy Central's Jon Stewart on Thursday poked fun at the national security "debate" between President Barack Obama and former Vice President Dick Cheney.

In so doing, "The Daily Show" host also mocked how the media covered this event as if it was a boxing match.

Although Stewart was certainly more critical of Cheney than Obama -- no surprise there -- readers should find this highly entertaining despite the leftward tilt (video embedded below the fold, please place your humor hats on before proceeding):

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—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.


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Monkey?

Talking about the Bamster and Vice-President Cheney, could a Republican get away with saying "one of them has a monkey-heart?"

Give him credit

Stewart is clearly a liberal, but he isn't afraid to poke comedy at Obama. I can live with that.

However, that having been said, I'm still waiting to see a serious contrast between the two ideologies. And when that happens, I hope the liberal side recognizes that the Bush administration learned as it went along. They eventually restricted the use of waterboarding. They changed the military tribunal system to respond to critics. Most of the criticisms against Bush are focused on the earliest stages, not at the program as it evolved. Cheney's defense is that the program was created in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, and even then it was legal and appropriate. Even so, I hope the debate doesn't forget that the Bush crowd modified it as it went along, even if you already believe that the earliest stages were legal anyway.

For me, the central difference in the ideologies has to do with how to handle the fact that terrorists aren't soldiers. The Obama argument is that we should treat them as soldiers anyway, even if we don't have to. The other side of the argument is that, as terrorists, we can't reward them with a soldier's respect and yet allow them to disregard the rules of war. I fall on the side of the latter; strategically, you have to punish them when they disregard the rules of war.

I ask this in a totally

I ask this in a totally non-snarky way: What are the rules of war? 

Nothing wrong with that question

With terrorists, the most important rule is that a soldier wears a uniform.  

War can only be defended as an act of national self-defense. In defending ourselves in war, we only have moral warrant to kill the people actually attacking us. So, from the earliest days of war, we've set the rule that we don't kill civilians, even those who are citizens of the enemy. We only kill militants (or as Sherman declared, those who make war, which expands the definition).  

When you're a murderer, people come after you because you're a rotten, evil scumbag. When you're a soldier, everyone knows you're not a psycho. We know that a soldier is only killing because he's trying to defend his country. A soldier doesn't kill for personal gain or sadistic revenge. That's why a soldier receives respect. Both of them kill, but we respect a soldier - he's only defending his country.

So the question is, who's a soldier? How can you identify a soldier in the middle of a battle? If he's shooting at you from behind innocent civilians, you don't want to take a chance on killing innocent people. But you have to defend yourself. Sooner or later, if you feel you're in enough danger, someone attacking you in civilian guise will force you to start shooting at innocents. To prevent that, we make a deal with soldiers. Wear a uniform. That will prevent us from attacking civilians in the crossfire. In return, if you wear a uniform (which makes you an easy target), we promise to treat you with respect if we capture you.

The only way to restrict your fire to a soldier is if the soldier is identifiable. So, a soldier wears a uniform. Now you have to understand, wearing a uniform is a deal. It's a trade. When you wear a uniform, you publicly identify yourself as a target. Why would anyone do that? Because, in return, the rules say that if you're captured, you will be treated in a certain way.

____

Terrorists don't wear a uniform. They hide behind civilians. They don't identify themselves as soldiers. They exploit our unwillingness to kill innocent civilians to kill our innocent civilians. Well, it's not an option to allow our people to die indiscriminately. If they don't abide by the rules of war, sooner or later to defend ourselves, we'll have to start killing innocents indiscriminately.

(Totally unrelated, but what

(Totally unrelated, but what if war isn't officially declared? Like in Vietnam?)

Who established these rules? I'm interested. Is this Geneva Convention stuff? 

→ bal

I think whoever won the last war generally sets the rules for the next.

That's why Nuclear attacks are illegal.

  • General Motors - You get what we pay for

 

It's like international law

There isn't any worldwide government that passes such laws. For most of history, it was generally accepted agreements.

You can make a case that the beginnings of modern international law started with the fact that the Catholic church was a presence in multiple countries in Europe, all of whom fought each other. It was the church that established the "sensibilities" of "just war theory," so that in each country, the church pressured the local government to abide by certain rules.

It turns out that Islam also quickly adopted the same sensibilities, and by the time of the Crusades, brutal as they were, the two religions had agreed on a common set of rules. They frequently broke the rules, on both sides, but at least the framework was established.   

The decline of the church as an authority in secular affairs left a vacuum; various attempts have been made to establish some other international authority. That's what the League of Nations was, and what the United Nations fails to be. The Geneva Conventions are not a government authority; instead, they're a mutual agreement among nations.

Oh, and the declared part

The non-declaration of war in Vietnam was a legal distinction within our own Constitution. It was still a war, and it was waged exactly as a war.

Actually, I recommend you

Actually, I recommend you read Aquinas's Just War theory.

THen get into the conventions.

Then study Strategy and Tactics for several years.

But always remember that the first rule is to win.

What are the rules?

to win.

“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”

Samuel Adams

Bulls-Eye

Bulls-Eye mizflame....

 I was going to post something in that direction myself earlier when I first saw this...anyway, was busy for awhile and forgot all about this...you took the words right out of my mouth.

Rules of War...

Good guys Win.

Bad guys lose.

Whatever it takes.

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

Well duh. I asked because

Well duh. I asked because KC's post seemed to indicate a formal set of rules somewhere.

Life is not a board game........

Although most liberals seem to think the threat posed by islam can be played, quit then come back to another day just like scrabble. Look up the meaning of the word "civilization". You will notice that this country fits all the descriptions, islamic countries do not.

So, is Jon Stewart to find

So, is Jon Stewart to find that Obama CAN provide material for comedy?  I hope this is the start of a trend simply so that Obama is taken off his pedestal so that we can question his actions and hold him accountable. 

So, is Jon Stewart to find

So, is Jon Stewart to find that Obama CAN provide material for comedy?  I hope this is the start of a trend simply so that Obama is taken off his pedestal so that we can question his actions and hold him accountable. 

The Rules of War

The latest rules of war are established by International Treaty. The latest version of those rules are the Geneva Convention. I am sad to say that treaty is already outdated. The terrorists are comitting acts of war as defined by the convention but they do not represent a Nation State. That is the reason that the Clinton Administration, the Supreme Court, and now Obama wants to proceed with trials in dealing with these people, it is all they really understand because they are trying to deal with these issues as Lawyers.

The only portion of International Law or Treaty that begins to cover how we as a nation should deal with this is the laws regarding Piracy. It isn't the taking of goods or even the murder of innocents, which could be handled by regular jurisprudence, that matter it is the forceable invasion of another nations territory (a ship flying the flag of a nation is considered to be the soverign territory of that nation) that is the central issue.

When President Thomas Jefferson was faced with the Barbary Pirates repeatedly attacking US Flag Vessels he sent in the Marines to attack Tripoli and deal with the matter. There were no trials. The Pirates were rounded up and dealt with, end of story. Pirates give up the rights that citizens of countries have by ignoring the basic precepts of civilization. They are a cancer that must be excised. I contend the modern terrorists fall under this catagory. They do not wear uniforms identifying themselves and thier alliegence, they have no recognized flag. These are important points. By the terrorists own actions and statements they have rejected civilization and the understood rules that all civilized nations follow.

The Supreme Court actually has very little say, other than to rule whether or not the terrorists are acting under the direction of another nation in these matters. This is the crux of the problem as the Geneva Convention sets the basic ground rules regarding war and the treatment of prisoners between Nations. By its' very definition terrorism and the terrorists who commit these acts lie outside the tenants and protections of the Treaty.

We in the USA did nothing to take any of the rights away from any captured terrorist. The terrorist rejected the very rights and the protections covered by those rights when they rejected those very rights and protections by thier actions. Soldiers act under orders from thier Superiors who follow the mandates of thier respective Governments. Terrorisits may follow orders from thier superiors but are following the mandates of no Government. If a Government is found to be directing thier activities then by default that Government lies outside the protections of the Treaties and Conventions because they broke the rules and are considered an Outlaw State because the acts were carried out in such a way that no other nation could readily identify which nation was responsible.