NASA's Global Warming Satellite Crashes, Will Media Notice?

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A rocket carrying a NASA satellite designed to study global warming crashed into the ocean near Antarctica Tuesday shortly after being launched from California's Vandenberg Air Force Base.

How delicious that it landed near the continent whose expanding ice mass totally defies the myth climate alarmists so eagerly spread for their own purposes.

Talk about your inconvenient truths.

As Bloomberg reported moments ago, the satellite cost $273 million:

The NASA satellite was to orbit 438 miles (705 kilometers) above Earth and observe how carbon dioxide enters and leaves the atmosphere, helping scientists predict future increases in the main greenhouse gas blamed for global warming. Instead, the satellite fell in the ocean near Antarctica though the mission manager said at no point did the craft pass over land.

“It’s a huge disappointment for the entire team who have worked very hard for years and years and years,” NASA Launch Director Chuck Dovale said in a briefing from California. “Even when you do your very best, you can still fail.”

Given the media's fascination with global warming, it will be interesting to see how much coverage this gets in the next 24 hours, and whether the press will notice the almost prophetic irony in the waste of money surrounding the study of this man-made hoax especially as Americans fret over the economy and their jobs.

Somehow I doubt it.

*****Update: Interested readers should review a Scientific American article about this satellite published Monday.

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.


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Boy, the lengths NASA's

Boy, the lengths NASA's James Hansen will go to protect his CO2 doomsday scenario :-)

As Obi Wan Konobie says

As Obi Wan Konobie says "There is another", Japan has one orbiting right now measuring a different path.  It is interesting, as I heard a "scientist" on NPR say the other day they knew CO2 was disappearing but they did not know where it was going. 

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

i just wonder,

i just wonder,

what kind of carbon footprint does launching a satelite leave?

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

I must admit it was I who brought the rocket down.

using the power of a supercharged 454 big block Chevy I utilized it's massive torque to counter rotate the Earth throwing the rocket's guidance system off kilter forcing a malfunction and thus crashing the rocket back to mother earth! 

I would like to apologize to the citizens of earth, since I counter rotated the globe some of you may have experience a longer period of school or work but it was for the greater good...I hope you all understand. 

Too funny man.  Speaking a

Too funny man.  Speaking a misguided rockets, I hear Sean Penn is going to make another homo-e-rocket film about it.  Seems the only time Hollywood recognizes him, is when he plays a homo.  Tasty

Miller I think Sean just enjoys it.

I think that's his way of trying to forget about being married to Madonna.

Woah!

That's why the dog was acting kinda funny earlier this morning.

Must have the 23.11 gear set in that baby HC. Nice, but kinda hurts the mileage eh?

To be honest JPR1

I wish I had that, but after what happened to that satalite it was the first thing that popped in my head...couldn't resist!

I just have a plane Jane 95 F-body LT-1 with stock 3.23's gears but I am slowly saving up some cash for a long block LT-1 383(520bhp@6300rpm/490lbft@4000rpm) from golen engine services and a LTCC opti spark conversion kit. Decent street manners and I get to drop the infamous GM Opti-spark that 93-95 Camaros are notorious for.

Now that'll be a carbon footprint...

Size 13 triple D.

Only in America! More power to ya bud. :-)

Just trying to do my part

as a good American to irritate all the tree huggers in the world.

Were those cars available

Were those cars available with the 6-speed then?

"two wars, a planet in peril, the worst financial crisis in a century" - PreBO

Yep.

Sadly mines is the "Auto" but when I was car searching 4 years ago I found my car with only a scant 45,000 miles on her and was being sold for 5 grand. Auto or not I could not pass it up. On the plus side autos make great drag cars.

 

It was you?

I though that the Earth's recent rotational slowdown was caused by all those 500+ Horse Power Stretch Limos arriving and departing the Academy Awards, all in same the direction.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Nah I got lucky

all that liberal wussiness neutered all the horsepower those limos had. ;-)

Anyone else find it curious

Anyone else find it curious that a satellite that wasn't finding the data they expected falls to earth?  Now they can make up their own numbers instead of having this piece of hardware reporting back, "No problems up here".

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."  - Sir Winston Churchill

The Real Cause

The missile failure had to be caused by global warming, which makes the mission that much more important.

Well, damn the bad luck. 

Well, damn the bad luck.  And to think that that $273 million to send a satellite into space to perpetuate a myth could have helped the "poor" or could have helped to keep some undeserving loser's house from foreclosure. 

For the MSM: In your pomp and all your glory, you're a poorer man than me.  As you lick the boots of death born out of fear.

Ian Anderson "Wind up"

 

 

I listened to the half hour

I listened to the half hour news 15 minutes ago (11:30 Eastern)...no mention of the missile crash.

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to
public office
--Aesop (~550 BC)

I hope the penguins are ok

I hope the penguins and polar bears are ok. Also this large of crash at Antarctica might cause large chunks of Antarctica to melt or break off into the oceans. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tax Dollars At Work

273 million?  Crashed and burned?  Sounds like my tax dollars at work!

NASA seems to have a high failure rate given the amount money they spend on their projects.

It's waste, in orbit or not

Funny thing is, that $273m is wasted money whether the satellite makes it into orbit or crashes. We debate the value of the shuttle and its replacement, why was there no debate on this boondoggle?

Decades from now, this kind of outrageous waste will be compared to the sailing expeditions in the 14th century sent off to find the edge of the flat world.

You can't be this ignorant, can you?

I cannot believe the ignorance being demonstrated on these comments.

This is scientific research that will provide data about carbon dioxide and how it is absorbed by the earth.  This is important information that will provide solid data about our very earth.

I am a conservative Republican.  I am also an intelligent person.  I am married to a scientist.  My brother in law is an engineer.  We are not ignorant closed-minded idiots.

I invite each of you to research the OCO.  Research carbon dioxide in our environment.  I am not espousing any position on anything.  I am encouraging each of you to read and learn.  Knowledge is good.

I may just end my viewing on this website if this is the moronic attitude demonstrated.

There is no waste here.  This is a drop in the bucket in our national budget. The research and development that comes out of these NASA missions is exponential. The value to society is very, very great.  This is all good stuff. I would much rather fund NASA and their research missions--especially this one where scientists all over the world will be sharing the data it provides--yes, all over the world folks.  So don't be ignorant partisans. 

attorneygirl

as you say the aquisition of knowledge is a good thing and we never know what may come of it?  We went to the moon and got Tang, who knew? ;^ )  (well that and computer tech, plastics, and loads of benefit which were unintended benefits etc.) 

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

I agree

I agree, Attorneygirl.  We just spent 273 million dollars learning how not launch a satellite.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
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I give up. Pearls before swine.

I'm clearly throwing pearls before swine on this one.

My only advice to you is that before you open your mouth, please do your homework.  It's called research.  Read.  Learn. Research. Gather data. Then speak. 

attorneygirl

actually i apologize if you took my jesting in the wrong vein.  For myself, i am all for scientific research.

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

The True Problem with NASA

The True problem here is that someone needs to look into why NASA can't have a successful launch in over 5 years of any sort of Sattellites?  We are contracting out to other countries to get them into space. 

What is NASA's purpose if they can't do the job they were set up to do?

 "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that Feeds You."

Could it

Could it be???? 

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

NASA

attorneygirl - Sure, I love NASA as much as anybody.  I find it inexcusable that not a single moon landing has occurred in my lifetime, and that NASA is populated by some of the most unimaginative people ever.  I want to see them return to the glory days of the Apollo missions and the Voyager probes.  But clearly, something is dreadfully wrong here.  When they can't do the basics right, there is a problem.  Don't you agree? 

"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!!  THE HOLOCAUST OF THOUGHT IS DAWNING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)

NASA. AGW. Research ???

How did this get funded? According to the Goracle, there is no discussion and that manmade global warming is a fact.

What are we researching? 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.

I'm curious.....

<Edit>

  Is it really so hard to understand why people are thrilled about this satellites early demise?

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

$273 Million is a waste of money to half-ass measure CO2

The whole CO2 hysteria has gotten out of control and having a ridiculously expensive satellite just to measure one trace gas in the atmosphere is a waste of money. Not only can it only measure "most" of the surface of the planet every 16 days, the satellite is only good for two years? So we are going to get missing data sets like crazy that the idiots at Nasa will probably "fill in" with math and declare catastrophy. What a waste of money.

If you think 273 million is a drop in the bucket then we have serious problems.

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is Not Pollution

the alternative conservative POV

Anbody ever notice how funding for science is piddling (by orders of magnitude) compared to, say, the current rush to reward failure and mediocrity elsewhere?

Sorry, but the rise in carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, is not a hoax.  The satellite in question was equipped to measure carbon dioxide globally from space.  Unfortunately, rockets, even those made by the best of the best (i.e., in the USA by NASA), can still behave unpredictably, which is par for the course with any "controlled explosion" necessary for lobbing that big honking piece of metal into orbit.  As a regular here, I honestly expect better from NB than to gloat over such a loss, and I'm perplexed that NASA, a symbol of proud American ingenuity, has somehow become "the visiting team" to root against.

Oh, and BTW, it's being reported in the media.  I first heard the news this morning on the radio.

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

As a regular here, I

As a regular here, I honestly expect better from NB than to gloat over such a loss, and I'm perplexed that NASA, a symbol of proud American ingenuity, has somehow become "the visiting team" to root against.

We did that the moment that NASA decided to fall for the biggest hoax ever. We expect NASA to be, well, scientific in all of its endeavors. They have totally abandoned the scientific process, and we are confused and concerned about this. Why did NASA accept money for this satellite, anyway? It's one thing to want to measure CO2. It's quite another to list the reason as "helping scientists predict future increases in the main greenhouse gas blamed for global warming". NASA doesn't have evidence that CO2 is causing global warming. Yet, it accepts that as fact. NASA has abandoned us, the home team.

___________________________________ 

The challenge is to follow a consistent plan despite inconsistent prices - Sarah Palin, State of the State of Alaska speech

Why use a satellite? Why not use balloons?

"The satellite in question was equipped to measure carbon dioxide globally from space."

Why do we NEED a satellite to measure CO2 concentrations in our atmosphere?  There a plenty of cheaper, more reliable ways of measuring atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

For example:  We can use weather balloons (we still use them, you know) and measure the CO2 content of the atmosphere directly from several altitudes.  For the cost of a BUILDING single satellite, let alone launching that satellite, we could build and launch of thousands, and even tens of thousands, of weather balloons to measure the atmosphere directly, and those balloons would drift with the wind currents for days at a time.  That way they can directly measure the CO2 percentages i n real time as they circulate inside our atmosphere.  A satellite can't do that.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of valuable uses for a satellite, but I can't understand why we need a satellite to perform a function that could be done right here with a LOT less cost and, in my opinion, better direct data.

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CobraMan

These are reasonable questions.  And this satellite would've been a research satellite, and thus was not something necessary for operational forecasting.  But briefly, the satellite would've provided a global perspective that simply can't be achieved from any other method.  I am well aware of balloons being used for measuring the atmospheric profiles of temperature and water vapor, but measuring other gases isn't all that trivial.  The only other gas I'm aware of that is measured from balloons is ozone, and that is quite a trick, involving a complicated disposable instrument package that costs hundreds of dollars a pop.  And even assuming it were practical, such measurements would still only be over land.

I don't want to get into another debate about AGW; I was just simply pointing out that this is something that happens with rockets, but it isn't something to gloat over. 

 

And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall.   -- Edgar Allan Poe

It's interesting that NASA

It's interesting that NASA wants to use satellites to determing where carbon is. Yet doesn't bother to look at it's own satellite data on tempertures.

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

almost prophetic irony in

almost prophetic irony in the waste of money surrounding the study of
this man-made hoax especially as Americans fret over the economy and
their jobs.

 

give me a break - it's not a total loss - satellites are insured against failure. What's wrong with observing CO2 using a satellite? It's much more accurate than doing it at the surface. Maybe accurate observations from space would prove all these doomsday readings from surface observations to be completely wrong. Taking delight in the failed launch is bad form (IMO)

Observing CO2 is one thing.

Observing CO2 is one thing. Accepting as fact, without sufficient evidence, that CO2 is the cause of global warming is another thing. That's what NASA has done. So, instead of building good launch systems, their "scientists" are more concerned with keeping this hoax alive. Perhaps all the good scientists have been let go, because they didn't pass the CO2-belief test, and all that are left are fools and morons? Don't know -- but, unfortunately in this day and age, the possibility exists.

___________________________________ 

The challenge is to follow a consistent plan despite inconsistent prices - Sarah Palin, State of the State of Alaska speech

No, it isn't

"It's much more accurate than doing it at the surface."

No, it isn't.  You can't take direct samples from orbit.  That can only be done within the earth's atmosphere.  To verify the accuracy of the date collected in orbit, direct samples on the atmosphere will STILL need to be taken.  Let's skip the expensive satellite and use only direct sampling.  It's the cheaper, more effective method.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Let's skip the expensive

Let's skip the expensive satellite and use only direct sampling.  It's the cheaper, more effective method.

from the OCO website

The Orbiting Carbon Observatory will yield 8-million carbon dioxide
measurements every 16 days. That's a dramatic increase over current
data available from today's small network of instruments on the ground,
on tall towers and in aircraft, and from limited space observations.

Time to take off the coats.

Time to take off the coats. Current temp in Vostok, Antartica is -46F. Predicted low of -67F Thursday morning.

Global warming my ass. Even if it was, CO2 is not causing it; mankind is not causing it.

___________________________________ 

The challenge is to follow a consistent plan despite inconsistent prices - Sarah Palin, State of the State of Alaska speech

Myth further debunked

NASA Satellite comes crashing down ... kind of like the Myth of Anthropogenic Global Warming!!! 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.

My brother in law headed the team on the spectrometer

Folks,

This is a sad day for the thousands of professionals who have worked for over seven years on this project.  My brother in law headed the team of engineers who designed the spectrometer which is designed to measure CO2 in the atmosphere.  This Orbiting Carbon Observatory will give scientists data to measure where CO2 is produced (the "sources") and where it is reabsorbed by the earth (the "sinks").  

Regardless of anyone's lay opinion on whether the earth really is warming, the data from this satellite will provide the most specific and concrete scientific data about green house gases (CO2).  What our present data collection technology offers does not give us details about these "sinks."  We need to know the wheres and whys about these sinks.  What is it about these sinks that causes them to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere?  This is really really important!  So, regardless of your lay opinion about global warming, it is irrelevant, because this OCO will provide concrete data for scientists around the world to measure CO2 sources and sinks.  

My brother in law tells me that NASA expects to have another OCO ready to put into orbit in two years--the research is done, many of the parts are duplicated, and everything else is in place.  So it's much cheaper the second time around.  

Please don't be critical of this scientific research.  We all stand to benefit from the knowledge the OCO will provide.

To all those who do not believe in global warming: Please support this project, because if the data it provides supports your position, then you will have scientific data to support your position.

I welcome all of you to fully read up on the Orbiting Carbon Observatory.  It's the most important technological advance in our recent history because of the data it will provide--data that should either support or refute the global warming crowd. 

No mention of $$

I just heard the first story on the radio. All they said was the satellite fell into the ocean and was lost. No mention of cost. 273 billion dollars could have been better spent. Didn't we here that all during the Bush presidency about what the cost of the war was?

It's $273 Million, not "billion."

Hey, it's $273 Million, not "billion."  Get your figures straight.

Further, that's a small investment in moving human knowledge forward.  

Another small mind?  I can't take it any longer.

If you don't appreciate or respect scientific or medical research, then I would advise you to live in a cave somewhere, not use any medicines or drugs, don't drive a car, use a phone, or any other piece of technology.  God allmighty.  I feel like I'm having to argue with closed minded monks from the 16th century. 

HEY

My father was a monk.  I do not appreciate your comment. 

In my mind, scientific

In my mind, scientific research is one of the very few areas that Government has a responsibility to support.  Long term scientific research is not something that many short-term profit driven private institutions can undertake.  It's also one of the few areas where the fruits of the labor potentially help all of humanity.  Studying CO2 is fine, but NASA really needs to resist being pushed around by pushy politicians following the latest junk science.

  

I see your point about the

I see your point about the people having worked hard and this being a sad day for them.

However, I get tired of constantly having Global Warming mentioned for everything.  Polar bear pictures appeared to be taken out of context to tell us how important Global Warming, but nobody really seemed to look into who took the pictures or what the exact circumstances were.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/02/the_polar_bear_.html

There is a great Youtube clip from I think Australia where they talk about how Gore used these polar bear pictures, and then the person who actually took the pictures said there was no catastrophe going on when they took the picture.  I'll try to find it tonight when I'm home.

And then of course all of the implciations that if you don't worship Gore for his views, then you are the equivalent of a Holocaust denier. 

So yes we should be sensitive to those who worked on this project and are downtrodden today, but at the same time, I'm all for pointing out instances where pictures and charts are twisted around to make thing seem like they really aren't.

 

Don't follow pop culture--follow the science

Dear Carl,

Don't follow pop culture.  Follow the science.  Do the research yourself.  Learn.  Read.  Study. Ask questions. Gather data.

The OCO is all about gathering data.  It makes no conclusions in and of itself.  It is a tool for gathering data.  That's it.

And with the current pop culture craze about "global warming," having real scientific data that can debunk this pop culture discussion is a good thing.  I am all for scientific research.

And yes, it is important for scientists all over the globe from different countries to compare data about CO2.  Of major concern are the sinks--the areas in the earth that actually absorb CO2.  A large question scientists have is why these sinks work, how much CO2 we can expect these sinks to continue to absorb, and if there is a limit to how much CO2 they can absorb.  This is very, very important data that will answer many, many questions the world over.

Japan has another satellite into space doing close to the same thing; however, Japan's satellite is not as accurate because its spectrometer is not as finely tuned or designed.  This particular spectrometer that our team has designed is the most finely tuned, most accurate technology built in the world to date that can take the finest, most precise readings of greenhouse gases in earth's atmosphere.  It reads these gas particles by reading them as they pass through the sunlight as that sunlight travels to earth, and as the sunlight bounces back off the earth.  This is an incredible scientific step forward.  Just don't cloud your interpretation of all this stuff with silly lay opinions based on ridiculous pop culture.  This has nothing to do with global warming or Al Gore or pop culture.

Read and learn.  Ask questions.  Do your homework. Study.  

I suggest you do the same.

 "Read and learn.  Ask questions.  Do your homework. Study."

I suggest you do the same.

The Japan satellite is a perfect example of why that type of technology isn't worth the expenditures to build and launch  such a system.  The CO2 concentrations of the Earth's atmosphere can be measured directly, from gas sampling instruments attached balloons for an example, and at a fraction of the costs.  How will a satellite EVER do better than direct sampling?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
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cobra

how many balloons would need to be launched in order to gather the information from a single orbit of the satellite?

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

A few thousand would suffice

A few thousand would suffice, and we could launch thousands of them at less than 10 percent of the cost of that one satellite.

But there isn't going to be just ONE satellite, is there?  Of course not.   The Japanese already have one, do they not?  But it's not giving people accurate data, so we need another, "better", more expensive satellite.

You know as well as I that the "experts" will "discover" that the data they are collecting from any satellite we launch will nit be accurate enough so they will need yet another satellite in which to make better measurements, measurements that can NEVER match the accuracy of direct sampling.

It's going to be a VERY expensive cycle of the construction and launching of  "better" satellites failing to yield the data that is required to make accurate measurements.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
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Your post indicates (unless

Your post indicates (unless I read you wrong) that the carbon sinks matter. That carbon drives climate.  

Something that contrary to many. Has never been proven and may at best be a minor player.

I'm all for pure science. However NASA has squandered the trust of the American people.

 

 

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

And therein lies the problem

NASA has squandered the trust of the American people.

Exactly.

 

I guess these people in

I guess these people in Australia don't know that the Global Warming debate is over and that they aren't supposed to question Gore.  Checkout this video in regards to polar bears and Gore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwwhY17F_1s

 

I don't think anyone is

I don't think anyone is debating the fact that it was sad for it to crash and loose all that time and money. The fact is that everyone is tired of hearing chicken little gore yelling about the sky is falling and all the other scientists on the payroll that sit there and nod their heads like a bobble head doll. My brother used to be one of the main people that worked on the shuttle engines down in the Los Alamos missle base. I even have a picture of myself with one of them tore apart (pretty cool stuff down there). He is with most of the people that say that this is all a bunch of hooey about GW.

I think people are more talking about the irony of the whole thing. Yes things go wrong with rockets but you have to admit that with the growing concensus that it is all a bunch of crap that a probe that would accurately measure this whole thing and could disprove once and for all this alarmist propoganda doesn't even make it in to orbit. 

 

What knowladge?

"Please don't be critical of this scientific research.  We all stand to benefit from the knowledge the OCO will provide."

What knowledge have we gained for that expenditure?  The only thing we've learned is how not to launch a satellite. We don't even know if that satellite would have worked as planned and would have given us valuable data.  That's a rather expensive lesson, is it not?

We really don't need a satellite to do research into the atmospheric CO2 concentrations.  There are plenty of cheaper alternatives that would give us that data.  Some of those alternatives could actually give us better data than a fleet of satellites.  This is just another  example of "experts" relying on new, extremely expensive  technology, and ignoring older, more cost effective technology to do the research, just another example of a waste of taxpayer money.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

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Unless you're a fetus.
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cobra

actually this would have been a good thing to have.  I believe the more real data we have, the more true a picture will be known. 

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

We don't need the satellite to collect that data

We don't need a satellite to collect that data.  It's a very inefficient way of measuring things like gas concentrations and how those concentrations vary.

A satellite orbits the earth, any data it collect from any given spot on Earth is limited to just a few minutes of observation.  It takes hours, and even days, before that satellite can return to the same spot to collect more data.  This gives us a series of snapshot for the data. That's not a very effective method of measuring a constantly changing environment.

Continuous sampling, on the other hand, gives us long term direct measurements for any given spot at any give time of the observation and that will always reveal more accurate data.

We we're going to research something, let's use the most accurate method for that research.  Not only does it give us better results, it is far more cost effective.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
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depends on what you want to

depends on what you want to measure  

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Atmospheric CO2 concentrations

Yes, like atmospheric CO2 concentrations,which is what this satellite was designed to measure.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
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what i meant was do you

what i meant was do you want absolute concentrations over time at any given spot or relative differences in concentrations over wide areas so trending data can be extrapolated?

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

We can do both

We can do both with direct sampling as a fraction of the cost of a single satellite. All we need to do is vary that direct sampling over different areas over a given period of time. A weather balloon, or a series of them, would be good for this.

Don;t get me wrong, there are valid uses for satellites as they can acquire data in ways that is impossible from Earth, like observing cloud formations over wide areas, but this is not one of those situations.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
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cobra

one single orbit with say a 5 mile wide focus to a precision of 1/2 mile would require over half a million balloons (assuming 24,000 mile great circle)

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Accurate measurements verse inaccurate ones

It''s accurate measurements verses inaccurate measurements.  The better you can measure a particular point, the better data you have for that point.  If you use various inaccurate data points to determine something globally, like you would with satellite measurements, your global measurement will be highly inaccurate.  Those inaccuracies for each data point do not cancel themselves out, they are cumulative.

On Edit: I guess it all depends on if you think that a lot of bad data is better than a little good data.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
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Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

in this case

in this case of comparative analysis for trending over large areas we can still gat a comparison

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

How good of an analysis?

How good of an analysis can we achieve with inaccurate data and what comparisons can we draw from an  inaccurate analysis?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
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as long as the inaccuracy

as long as the inaccuracy is consistant the comparison is valid.  Unless you have cause to show the inaccuracy acts in independant direction and magnitude.  Sampling error is easily compensated for.

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

But we're not taking any samples for orbit

But we're not taking any direct samples from orbit. We're EXTRAPOLATING a given sample, we're not testing it directly. How can you account for sampling errors in an extrapolation?  You cant, unless you take direct samples in which to verify that extrapolation. You have to do this continually in order to verify that the extrapolation is not varying in accuracy over time.

Like I said, we need direct sampling anyways, so why do we need the satellite?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

evidently someone thought

evidently someone thought it worthwhile

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Yep

Yep, as long as THEY didn't have to pay for it.  Unlike a communications satellite, that satellite was funded by the US taxpayers. It didn't come from a university budget or a private citizen or business, it came from a government budget.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

as was the Apollo

as was the Apollo program

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Huh?

Are you seriously comparing the Apollo program to a single scientific study?  You may not be aware of this, but the Apollo program consisted of several scientific studies, experimentation, and testing programs.  This includes, but is not limited to, medical, digital, engineering, materials, and propulsion studies.

This satellite, on the other hand, was designed, constructed, and launched based on existing technology, technology that is now available because of the ground breaking studies and inventions that were developed during the Apollo program.  It's only scientific advancement is using just another way to measure atmospheric CO2.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

ha!

i knew we could agree on tha gubbermint spending money! 

i was a fascinated 13 year old watching the moon landing so yes i am aware of the extent of the program.  Mercury and Gemini too.

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Effective spending verses ineffective spending

I'm all for the gubermint spending money on research, but only as long as that research is effective.  

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Off topic

This is off topic, but I grew up in the 60's and 70's and I was fascinated with the space program.  I watch the first moon lading live (well, almost live if you believe the conspiracy theorists) and, for the longest time, I wanted to be an astronaut.  This was until I learned that those astronauts train for YEARS just so they can spend a few hours, or a few days, in space.  That's WAY too much work for FAR too little reward, for my tastes. Good Bye, NASA.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

There is a cheaper way

There is a cheaper way than building and launching an entire satellite into orbit, btw.  Nasa can construct and send a measuring instrument and have the astronauts attach it to the existing space station.  That station already exists, it already covers every point on the Earth in it's yearly orbit, and we already send up men and materials on a regular basis.  After all, that's why we BUILT the station, to do scientific observation and experimentation.

We don't even need to schedule a separate launch to get that instrument to the space station.  The Russians can send that instrument up with their next resupply launch. Al an astronaut need to do is go outside and attach it.

If we really need do orbital observations, that is the cheapest way to achieve them.  And if that instrumentation needs an upgrade, how hard is it to recover it and replace it? Compare that to building and launching a replacement satellite.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Besides

Balloons are just ONE of the ways we can use direct sampling. there are many others.  I used balloons just as an example.  There's also alternatives like setting up fixed, inexpensive solar powered measuring stations at suspect carbon sources and sinks (like the tops of trees), ocean buoys, ect. I'm sure that, with a little thought, the "experts" can come up with many more.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Buoys?

how much would it cost to put 150,000 buoys across the pacific ocean?  that's only one sweep.  the satellite is less expensive.  that said, i think the purpose of the satellite is of more concern.  if it is for scientific data collection and not to be used in a biased manor then i am all for.  NASA has unfortunately a track record of not revealing actual data and thus not allowing independant verification of their biased conclusions.

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

I don't know, but it would be cheap

I don't know, but we are ALREADY deploying thousands of buoys as part of the Tsunami program! We're also doing it as part of a study to measure ocean temps and currents.  We're ALREADY deploying buoys in every port, every shipping lane, every ocean hazard point.. We're ALREADY deploying buoys every single day worldwide!

How hard, how expensive  would it be to attach a small, solar power CO2 measuring device to those existing buoys (they do need regular servicing, you know) and new buoys?  It shouldn't cost more than a hundred dollars per buoy.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

throughout the Pacific?

i don't know about that....

suffice it to say i think AGW is bull and more data will affirm the truth.

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

Throughout all the oceans

We're deploying buoys throughout all of the Earths oceans and we have been for decades.

 "suffice it to say i think AGW is bull and more data will affirm the truth."

I agree, I just don't want to waste taxpayers money to collect needed data. Not when there cheaper, more effective ways of getting that data.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Show me your research on this issue

Dear CobraMan,

Please show me your research to date on this issue.  Please give me three paragraphs summarizing your conclusions reached.  Please also share with the readers on this website your knowledge about the OCO, about CO2 sources and sinks, and about greenhouse gases in general.

Your ignorance is showing.  I give up here.  I really throwing pearls before swine here.  If left up to you, society would be left with sticks and stones, living in caves.

I'm signing off this website. 

SWEET

SWEET

SWEET

SWEET - dont let the html hit you in the rear on the way out

She must not be a very good lawer

She must not be a very good lawyer.  When she faces opposition, she claims intellectual superiority and walks away from any debate.  I don't know about you, but that's not something I would want my lawyer to do if I ever had to go to court.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

You hit the nail on the

You hit the nail on the head. 

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

Sure, use the "let me see your expertize" excuse.

Sure, use the "let me see your expertize" tactic in this debate. 

I noticed that YOU gave a detailed comment supporting the use of satellites for this research but failed to provide any references as to your expertize, but now you're asking for mine because I gave made a comment, support a position, that is opposite to yours.  Just like an attorney would.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Well....

Cobra what'd ya expect? I mean, afterall, she is an attorney.

:-)

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

Bye!   Limited Disclos

Bye!

 

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

LMAO! $273 Million for a half-ass mission

We blow $273 Million to half-ass monitor CO2, the OCO can only measure some of the earth's surface every 16 days for up to 2 years. WOW! That will give Hansen all new sorts of mathematically created fill in the blank data sets for the missing CO2 measurements.

This is a single instrument satellite that can measure CO2 in the atmosphere. Making scientific determinations about sinks is going to be guessing regardless. I am not impressed.

Just because you are related to someone who put a lot of work into the instrument does not mean we are not allowed to criticize how our tax money is used. 

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is Not Pollution

Exactly.....

"Just because you are related to someone who put a lot of work into the
instrument does not mean we are not allowed to criticize how our tax
money is used."

Well said PT.

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

I have been reading

and I have questions...

After reviewing the mission pages regarding the objectives for this now crashed sattelite..

"By identifying and monitoring carbon sources and sinks within a given region, the Orbiting Carbon Observatory will enable comparisons of net carbon dioxide emission sources among regions and counties, and will improve annual reporting of carbon budgets by industrial countries in northern latitudes, and by tropical states with large forests"

Now I just your average Jane on the street but is the purpose of this sattelite to measure for science or for cap and trade "carbon management"?

kata

good call it does sound like more of the later

The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -- Chief Justice John Roberts

If that is the case then I

If that is the case then I am kinda glad that it crashed. No need to make it any easier for them to manipulate the data so they can charge some poor farmer for all of his flatulent cows and drive the price of beef through the roof.

Sounds like it was cheaper

Sounds like it was cheaper for everyone, that it crashed. So much for research.

Did the chi coms shoot it down? 

Limited Disclosure:  I used to belong to the Sierra Club untill they went crazier. Worse of all, I was bribed by Exxon with free New Orleans Saints glasses with fill ups in the 70's.

Russian Anti-satellite test?

Perhaps the Russians did another of their anti-satellite weapons tests?

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

I heard about this early

I heard about this early this morning....I about died laughing...you just can't make this stuff up.

To cut to the chase....this made my day...what fools these people are, and of course I should be angry that are tax-payer money goes to this BS all for the agenda of something false called algoreplanetaryemergenceyglobalwarming...and oh yeah...the planet has a fever.

Looks like that fever was broke this morning...heheheheeehahahah!

Reading through teh

Reading through teh comments, I saw Cobra's exchanges and mentioned where there are cheaper ways of measurement.  And resposes and go betweens and tehre was ssome argument qabout the effectiveness.  I was listening to a "scientist" from NASA explain the sattelite was effective and accurate only across large areas like teh state of Colorado.  So the thing measures large swaths and not micro swaths as Cobra was suggesting.

And Attorneygirl got her panties in a wad because we did not like teh idea of NASA concentrating on CO2 and accepting a premise of AGW.  Well I am all for research for research sake as sometimes that produces astounding results and data.  however the data would be used in nefarious purposes in teh same way temperature readings are.

AG, what do you make of teh error in sattelite readings for the polar ice shelf being miscalcede by a whopping margin.  Did we hear on teh MSM about this or anything, NO. Data is fine and we get into teh devil details in tehinterpretation of it.

So I suggest you support your arguments because it seems when an AGWer data fails they always point to some humongous body of work like IPCC findings and data.  Now taht is a nightamre and it was finalized by politicians.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Now NASA has me confused

"NASA explain the sattelite was effective and accurate only across large areas like teh state of Colorado."

Now NASA has me confused.  How can NASA hope to identify carbon sources and sinks with such LOUSY resolution?  You may as well try to identify a single mountain on Earth by looking at a 110 millimeter (110's remember those?) hand held Kodak camera picture that was taken from the moon.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities
of Citizens in the several States.

The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

Wonder how many whales that

Wonder how many whales that thing took out?

One of the 24% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 89% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.

NASA is BS

Bullshit! - NASA (Video) (28min)

We should let private industry do space exploration as NASA constantly proves they suck at it.

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is Not Pollution

Shocking, but I disagree

The Apollo program, the Viking probes, the Voyager probes, Magellan, Cassini, Galileo, the HST...ALL prove you wrong. 

(There are some things I would do different with those programs, but to say NASA sucks at space exploration is taking criticism way too far.) 

"THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!!!  THE HOLOCAUST OF THOUGHT IS DAWNING!!!" - Nevermore, "Bittersweet Feast", from This Godless Endeavor (2005)