From the "You've Got To Be Kidding Me" department: "Global Warming Causing California Glacier to Grow, Scientists Say."
What? Hasn't Nobel Laureate Al Gore and every climate alarmist in the media been warning us that global warming is causing glaciers to melt, and that we're all going to die if we don't do something about it?
Well, not so fast, because according to the CBC, much like climate change can cause droughts AND torrential rains, it now seems the tricky little devil can make glaciers grow too (emphasis added, better stow fluids and sharp objects):
The glaciers on Mount Shasta in California are growing because of global warming, experts say.
"When people look at glaciers around the world, the majority of them are shrinking," said Slawek Tulaczyk, a University of California, Santa Cruz, professor who studied the glaciers.
But the seven glaciers on Shasta, part of the Cascade mountains in northern California, "seem to be benefiting from the warming ocean," he said.
As the ocean warms, more moisture evaporates. As moisture moves inland, it falls as snow — enough on Shasta to more than offset a 1 C temperature rise in the past century.
Hmmm. That's not what NASA said in March, as reported by Green Daily (emphasis added):
Researchers with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory studying temperature changes in the world's oceans are finding no evidence of heating up in the last 5 years or so.
Scientists have been working with a program called Argo, which looks at ocean temperatures using robotic buoys which dive down to three thousand feet to collect data. Since the study began in 2003, measurements have not only failed to find evidence of warming, but in fact have picked up a slight cooling trend.
Well, maybe the Banana Slugs of Santa Cruz hadn't heard about this NASA study...or didn't care.
Update: NBer danbo rightly states in the comments section that the average yearly temperature has declined in the Mt. Shasta area since the '90s:
Isn't it also interesting that the temperature in Shasta for the past three years has been lower than some of the years prior to WWI?
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Much like increased volcano
July 9, 2008 - 17:47 ET by taterMuch like increased volcano eruptions and earthquakes are caused by global warming...now we can add ice ages.
www.theholyrosary.org
"There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we can not resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary." -Sister Lucia
Don't knock it, tater...in
July 9, 2008 - 18:41 ET by motherbeltDon't knock it, tater...in "The Day After Tomorrow" global warming DOES cause an ice age!
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
Fore Pete's sake, Noel. When
July 9, 2008 - 17:49 ET by Chris NormanFor Pete's sake, Noel. When are they going to start putting this contorted dribble in the comics section - where it all belongs?
McNotObama '08
Not only that, but....
July 9, 2008 - 17:55 ET by c5thenIf you've been watching the Discovery Channel series "Deadliest Catch" recently...last season (Oct-Nov 2007) the ice pack in the bearing sea was growing and moving further south and causing problems for the boats.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
While The History and
July 9, 2008 - 18:03 ET by Chris NormanWhile The History and National Geographic channels are working overtime advancing the Global Warmist agenda, squeezing it in any way and everywhere they can.
McNotObama '08
That "Arctic Ice" doesn't exist
July 9, 2008 - 18:54 ET by PopularTechPlease stop with this imaginary "Arctic Ice" the media tells me it does not exist anymore due to my SUV.
Arctic - Arctic Winter Ice 1979-2006 (Animation) (NASA)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
If you haven't seen this
July 9, 2008 - 19:19 ET by danboIf you haven't seen this photo. You might appreciate it. From John Daily, the North Pole may 1987.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Thanks, PT, that's very
July 9, 2008 - 19:33 ET by motherbeltThanks, PT, that's very interesting. Now I'm no climatologist, and certainly no expert, but it looks to me as if it's stayed basically the same, with the shape of the edges changing a bit year to year.
But then again, what do I know?
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
The Media ignores the Arctic Winter
July 9, 2008 - 19:47 ET by PopularTechIt effectively has, what the media and the alarmists do is only show the summer minimum each year for propaganda reasons. This is like them only talking about the hottest days in the Summer and ignoring the Winter, oh wait they already do that too.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
LIVE WEB CAM FROM NORTH POLE
July 10, 2008 - 09:42 ET by metroxYou folks might like this link I recently came across:
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html
OK the arctic melts in
July 10, 2008 - 10:45 ET by danboOK the arctic melts in summer?
Does the July image for "web cam 1" look like an aerial photo?
Web cam 2 is from the same location? 1. There's more ice now than april. And 2. it got so hot it melted the mountains accross the fjord.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
arctic melts, but why?
July 10, 2008 - 12:03 ET by ChuckM from PAIs it possible that the Arctic is melting because of all of the global warming nuts (I mean "scientists") who are traveling there to "document" the melting of the ice. Just by increased human presence must affect the ice there some.
Or is it possible that the ice is melting because IT'S SUMMER there. Show me pictures of the Arctic in February or March, not June to August.
There is nothing
July 9, 2008 - 18:01 ET by 10ksnookerthat global warming --- err make that climate change, can't do. You want your car fixed, just call climate change.
You can see the end is near.
It's all about a carbon tax, fee, fine..
July 9, 2008 - 18:01 ET by upcountrywaterCollect the tax... warmer or cooler..only the tax man cares.
FYI cooler weather is coming your way...
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
"As the ocean warms," You
July 9, 2008 - 18:06 ET by danbo"As the ocean warms," You have to be kidding...
Have these people ever heard about LaNina and the shift in the PDO?
Are they considering the approximately 1 degree drop in temps on Mt Shasta since the early 90"s?
They'll say anyhing.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
danbo
July 9, 2008 - 18:12 ET by Noel Shepparddanbo,
You got a link to temperature data on Shasta showing a 1 degree decline since the early '90s? Please, please, please? :-) ns
danbo
July 9, 2008 - 18:12 ET by Noel Shepparddanbo,
We should be able to find the closest weather station, right? ns
This is GISS adjusted
July 9, 2008 - 18:48 ET by danboThis is GISS adjusted graphs, and it only goes through 2007. If we include this last half year it's probably more.
Photos of the Mt Shasta site.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Noel. You realize the data
July 9, 2008 - 21:21 ET by danboNoel. You realize the data for Mt Shasta will have to be adjusted again. You might want to keep a copy of that graph and compare it to GISS in a year.
I Understand, the list of hottest US years have been updated something like 6 or more times since McIntyre discovered Hansens Y2K error.
I'm only half joking.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
----
July 9, 2008 - 22:04 ET by dahliatraverssince McIntyre discovered Hansens Y2K error.
I think we're being too hard on James Hansen. Whether or not he gets all the facts right is much less important than how passionately he believes in his theory...
Take Heart My Friends
July 9, 2008 - 18:13 ET by geoff.galeI suspect many of you have already heard that the first case of "climate change delusion" has been identified and diagnosed by psychiatrists in Australia. Apparently, among other things, the lad suffering from this malady is afraid that his consumption of water is killing the planet and threatens the lives of millions. As most of you know, Australia has been in drought for some years, and this year is particularly bad down there.
So, I was wondering if this boy's folks will have recourse to sue the MSM for implanting an obviously poison idea in their son's head and hammering on it until it grew into a full-blown psychotic delusion.
Nah, that couldn't happen.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
www.conservativeboot...
Heard about this on Rush
July 9, 2008 - 18:31 ET by Chris NormanHeard about this on Rush Limbaugh today. It's growing more obvious with each day and with each wild claim that a huge amount of - what are they calling it these days? - is delusional.
McNotObama '08
Anthropogenic Climate Global Warming Change
July 9, 2008 - 18:40 ET by geoff.galeWhatever you call it, it's a darn good excuse for whatever. I had a headache the other morning. Some might say it was from the wine the night before, but I'm claiming it was climate change what done it.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
www.conservativeboot...
geoff and Chris,
July 9, 2008 - 21:07 ET by R D HelmHere is the link for anybody interested.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
just wait
July 9, 2008 - 21:11 ET by acadia1755Just wait till the scary wet droughts kicks in and it will be followed by an Unprecedented wave of dry floods.
http://www.friendsof...
Noel...
July 9, 2008 - 18:21 ET by Clear thinkerHave you seen this posting from Yahoo news?
It's making a connection to the fires in California and AGW...
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=8734759&ch=4226713&src=news
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
I can't remember where I
July 9, 2008 - 18:26 ET by RukusI can't remember where I first heard this but I love the line.
"Glaciers don't recead, they are just going back more rocks!"
Love it! GW alarmists! Snort! Oops, sorry! Hehe.
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
This is getting ridiculous........Global Warming causes....
July 9, 2008 - 18:49 ET by BEGRUNTglaciers to melt and grow at the same time....truly amazing. When is Global Warming going to start making more oil? Using this stupidity, its only a matter of time. No matter what happens, the MSM contorts it to somehow make it global warmings fault.......geeez, talk about reaching.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
BEGRUNT...
July 9, 2008 - 18:52 ET by Clear thinkerHave you ever had an in-grown toe nail?
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Yes I have Clear............
July 9, 2008 - 18:58 ET by BEGRUNT"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Global warming!!! 45
July 9, 2008 - 19:02 ET by Clear thinkerGlobal warming!!!
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
LMAO!!!......good one!!
July 9, 2008 - 19:08 ET by BEGRUNT"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Global Warming is causing many Glaciers to Grow
July 9, 2008 - 18:57 ET by PopularTechGlaciers - Fox Glacier, Fox Glacier has been advancing since 1985 (Alpine Guides)
Glaciers - Franz Josef Glacier, A Glacier Grows, Undeterred by Heated Kyoto Debate (CNSNews)
Glaciers - Glacier National Park, Science debunks Glacier Park warming alarm (The Heartland Institute)
Glaciers - Global warming boost to glaciers (BBC)
Glaciers - Himalayan Glaciers Are Growing ... and Confounding Global Warming Alarmists (The Heartland Institute)
Glaciers - Hubbard Glacier, Alaska: Growing and Advancing in Spite of Global Climate Change (USGS)
Glaciers - Icy Bay Glaciers get up and go (SitNews)
Glaciers - Johns Hopkins Glacier is advancing and moving 3000 feet per year (Glacier Bay National Park)
Glaciers - Kolka Glacier is growing again (NTV, Russia)
Glaciers - Kilimanjaro, Kilimanjaro's ice set to linger (BBC)
Glaciers - Kilimanjaro, On Africa’s Roof, Still Crowned With Snow (The New York Times)
Glaciers - Kilimanjaro, The Woes Of Kilimanjaro: Don't Blame Global Warming (Science Daily)
Glaciers - McGinnis Glacier, Chance Discovery: Alaska Range Glacier Surges (Science Daily)
Glaciers - Meares Glacier, an advancing glacier tearing up trees and rocks in its path as it grows (Alaska Tours)
Glaciers - Melting glacier 'false alarm' (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Glaciers - Mont Blanc Glacier, Global warming makes Mont Blanc grow (The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Glaciers - Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? (World Climate Report)
Glaciers - Mount Shasta Glaciers Defy Global Warming, Grow (CBS)
Glaciers - Mount St. Helens Glacier, Glacier Grows in Mount St. Helens' Crater (FOX News)
Glaciers - Nigardsbreen Glacier is growing by 25 to 50 meters per year (Jostedal Glacier National Park)
Glaciers - Norway's glaciers growing at record pace (Agence-France Presse)
Glaciers - Perito Moreno Glacier, The largest glacier in Argentina Advances Continuously (Los Glaciares National Park)
Glaciers - Permanent Ice Fields Are Resisting Global Warming (Science Daily)
Glaciers - Pio XI Glacier, The biggest glacier in South America keeps growing every year (Visit Chile)
Glaciers - Small Glaciers In Northern California Buck Global Warming Trend (Science Daily)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
So where's your
July 9, 2008 - 19:00 ET by Clear thinkerSo where's your proof?
;-)
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Ditto CT, Ditto. Science is
July 9, 2008 - 19:15 ET by RukusDitto CT, Ditto. Science is not a real thing, only a religion to them! Why have so many REAL scientists come out against this scam? Because they see past this crap! I am happy to be a "denier"!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Global warming hysteria is
July 9, 2008 - 20:01 ET by ThatDudeGlobal warming hysteria is very much like the chicken little story. The difference is that in this case is that the king also believes the sky is falling and essentially is attempting to force the townspeople to build pillars to hold it up. Solving a nonexistant problem with a ridiculous solution does nothing but hurt everyone.
Dude! You are so right!
July 9, 2008 - 20:16 ET by RukusDude! You are so right! Chicken Littel, the sky is falling! The sky looks OK to me! AGW is BS!
"Nuke 'em 'til they... oh hell, just shoot 'em!"
Al Gore told me
July 9, 2008 - 19:30 ET by PopularTechAnd if the prophet speaks we must obey.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Need for these experts names....
July 9, 2008 - 20:02 ET by geminicontenderit seems everybody's an expert but they never attach their name. "Undisclosed sources," blah, blah, blagh. When true andidentifiable facts become present then talk to us. The world is fine. It's been here 4.5 billion years....not going anywhere
i'm going to go check my fridge
July 9, 2008 - 20:03 ET by lunaticcringeradiohopefully global warming has cause some cookie dough ice cream to grow in my freezer.
ps by the way
PSYCHIATRISTS have detected the first case of "climate change delusion"
i wonder what took them so long? i mean they've JUST identified their FIRST case? their FIRST? REALLY? i could have sworn i've seen this guy running around all over crying about all kinds of delusionary claims. he even had charts and graphs, and i hear tell this delusionary nut even made a fictional movie based on this fairy tale. so what the hell were they doing this guy couldn't be easier to find unless he had dragons flying out his ass. these psychiatrists(another name for snake oil salesman) need to be fired because anyone incapable of seeing the obvious for so long has no reason to be paid even if they were giving away free oral treats with their job.
lunaticcringeradio
one of these days
July 9, 2008 - 20:07 ET by lunaticcringeradioi want to take a ton of kerosene drums up on a glacier, light it up, and melt down a glacier overnight, just to yank these global warmings chains.
lunaticcringeradio
I lost a bookmark
July 9, 2008 - 20:25 ET by Kirk HallA while back, and I believe it was in a comment here or maybe at hot air there was a link posted to a forum type website with a bunch of Global Warming articles and vids. I guess I did not bookmark if properly as it is not there. Does anyone have that link?
Never mind I see PopularTech posted it above. Sweet!!
global warming
July 9, 2008 - 20:23 ET byI'm no climatologist but what if - even if the chances are a million to one -- global warming is leading us toward worldwide catastrophe? Aren't the consequences of inaction in this unlikely scenario simply too horrific to ignore?
No
July 9, 2008 - 20:27 ET by Kirk HallSince if the hoax was true, there is absoulutely nothing we could do about it. Nothing. It's not nice to fool mother nature.
----
July 9, 2008 - 21:37 ET by dahliatraversInasmuch as man's contribution to greenhouse gases is less than 6%, that's exactly right.
The G-8's goal of a 50% reduction by 2050 is flat out impossible without that magic (non-existent) non-fossil fuel source. Using current technology and some hard-to-envision (but let's be optimistic) conservation measures, we might get the US to reduce its emissions by ... maybe 10%? This will be cancelled out several times by the emissions of developing countries - China, India, etc - whose citizens understandably want to partake in the comforts of some reasonable mod cons --- powered, of course, by fossil fuels.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
It wouldn't make a.........................
July 9, 2008 - 20:30 ET by BEGRUNThill of beans of difference.......if what you say is true,,,,were screwed, and no matter what we do now will make a difference. Contemplate this: How arrogant of man to think that he can control the earth...enviroment. Can we control volcanos?, Earthquakes?, Hurricanes?.....what makes you think that we could control the enviroment??
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Let me show you
July 9, 2008 - 20:50 ET by NL207Let me show you something. This is a paleoclimate reconstruction based on data recovered in a ice core drilled through roughly 800,000 years of ice buildup in Antarctica. Notice that recently in geologic time, it has been both a full 5 degrees K warmer and 10 degrees K colder than today. Both the biosphere in general and humanoids in particular survived these events just fine. Even if the "worst" predictions of these climate nuts were to come to pass, it still will not drive the climate of the planet outside this envelope. Therefore, both life in general and us in particular WILL SURVIVE any such events.
A case in point: Notice how much more intense the last global climate optimum was than this one? Polar Bears existed as much as 150,000 ago according to the fossil record. Somehow, they survived, contrary to what these climate alarmists want you to believe today.
The alarmists are simply full of sh**.
Yessir.
July 10, 2008 - 00:18 ET by JWFThe climate of the earth is self regulating. It is how life is possible on the planet.
I don't think it is a
July 10, 2008 - 13:06 ET by meteor79I don't think it is a question of whether or not we'll survive. The human species is resilient and will adjust to whatever climate changes occur. But do we really want to have to make major "adjustments" to our civilization when it could possibly be prevented? Also, keep in mind that the current very large, civilized, and technologically advanced society we live in is very different from how humans lived 100,000 years ago, so what humans went through during past climate changes, like you cite in your paleoclimate reconstruction, is not even close to being similar to what the current society would experience during future climate changes.
Also, the reconstruction you provide is for one location in Antarctica. Just because Antarctica has been 5 degrees warmer doesn't mean the rest of the globe has been 5 degrees warmer, unless you assume all global changes in temperature are distributed equally (which we know aren't).
Just because Antarctica has
July 10, 2008 - 15:58 ET by Dan The Man 2Just because Antarctica has been 5 degrees warmer doesn't mean the rest of the globe has been 5 degrees warmer and there we have it in a nutshell. The idea is we dont know squat, and all of it is mostly speculation and models. We do know that humans have little impact in teh big scheme of climate on the earth. As you noted the earth has had climate changes for many 1,000 of years without mans help.
AGW is a farce.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
"reconstruction you provide
July 11, 2008 - 19:09 ET by NL207"reconstruction you provide is for one location in Antarctica"
If you read the paper you know the temperature reconstruction was derived from deuterium analysis of the water molecules comprising the ice. The immediate source for that ice was the snowfall in that region at that time. Its indirect source was evaporates accumulated from a vast region in the southern hemisphere. It is likely this reconstruction gives a good sampling of the southern hemisphere just as the ice cores take in Greenland are thought to give a good approximation of the Northern Hemisphere.
"so what humans went through during past climate changes, like you cite in your paleoclimate reconstruction, is not even close to being similar to what the current society would experience during future climate changes"
Thanks for supporting my argument, even if that was not your intent. Humans are now much more able to adapt to whats happening. We are in a much BETTER position than we were in the last ice age. All this alarm beiong raised by the extremists on your team is simply scaremongering. FUD. the spreading of fear, uncertainty and doubt to achieve an unworthy political end. There is going to be no climate catastrophe.
if global warming were real i would do everything to stop it
July 9, 2008 - 21:03 ET by lunaticcringeradiobut global warming supporters aren't making any efforts to truely change anything in the climate. all of global warmings efforts are focused on prohibiting and penalizing productive freemarket capitalistic ventures, ignoring the horrible actions of those countries that are deeply socialist or communist(note i do not think socialism or communism is productive). when all this global warming first started in motion i openmindedly explored the topic only to find the science was fictional and the goal was to punish the free market.
global warming is not worthy of ignoring, it's worthy of openly mocking and pointing fingers at idiots who are suckered into the scheme.
if you want to worry about a worldwide catastophe where the possability might be a million to one, i'd worry about that unseen asteroid out there. go grab a telescope and be productive you'll make more of a difference than crying about global warming.
by the way if you are worried about global warming, ask yourself this, what is the exact ideal global temperature down to a tenth of a degree, is global warming a bad thing, what causes climate changes in the past when man made industry didn't exist, and if global warming is caused by mans actions what can we effectively do to reverse it?
lunaticcringeradio
Good job
July 10, 2008 - 11:11 ET by TheDeuceYou not only beat me to the asteroid query, but you noted the real target of the alrmists...the free market.
Another item to consider...if these putzes REALLY believed their own hype, they'd stop burning fossil fuels. But, it's simply more leftist 'not for me but for thee'.
Are the chances of Alien Invasion too horrific to ignore?
July 9, 2008 - 21:36 ET by PopularTechInsert (crazy catastrophe) with a million to one odds and then prioritize which one we should spend money on.
There is no horrific scenario which is why you have Al Gore going around preaching doomsday and not the imaginary thousands of scientists.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Are the chances of Alien
July 9, 2008 - 21:47 ET by dahliatraversAre the chances of Alien Invasion too horrific to ignore?
Actually, PopTech, you're even more correct with your hypothesis than you realize. The chances of such an invasion have gone up now that they've determined that there was probably water on the moon (three billion years ago). How do we know the water didn't just go under the lunar surface where it has been keeping alive lunar aliens living in caves (therefore, not detected by our landings or our telescopes)? Lunar aliens who have been biding their time, waiting for just the right moment to invade Earth??
One of their kind sets
July 9, 2008 - 21:51 ET by SemperrightOne of their kind sets across from Hannity every night at 9pm
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The MARINES don't have that problem."
President Ronald Reagan - 1985
Sounds kind of familiar...
July 9, 2008 - 23:10 ET by Uncle John"lunar aliens living in caves"
Bats, perhaps? Living on the moon?
Hmmm...
i just can't get concerned with flashkings a million to one odds
July 10, 2008 - 08:35 ET by lunaticcringeradioi mean we all do things everyday in our lives that puts us at fatal risk that are a lot chancier than a million to one. most everyone still drives a car every day and the chances of you getting in a horrific accident or fatal accident are pretty high, but we all still do it. to slip and fall in the bathtub, to choke on a piece of food, killer bees, home invasion, plane crash, ebola, daffy duck holds up a sign that says it's dumbass season and elmer fudd comes by and shoots you, there are so many things that are more dangerous in our daily lives than a million to one chance that global warming might be happening and gonna get us all. i still say that unseen asteroid humming around out there is more of a worry than global warming could ever be, don't believe me, take a drive out to flagstaff az and go east on I-40 about 30 miles then turn south at that big mile wide hole that a meteor left. that is real, global warming is a political agenda. if you're worried about a mythical beast like global warming coming down off the mountain top to destroy mankind then you need to find something to fill your days because you have too much free time on your hands.
lunaticcringeradio
UCSC is a Nuthouse
July 9, 2008 - 20:35 ET by hgabrahamsonThe following article tells you everything you need to know about Slawek Tulaczyk and the lunatics at Santa Clara. The Golden Staters tax dollars at work.
http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2006/06/uc-santa-cruz-denice-dee-denton-san.html
Difference of Opinion is what makes a Horse Race
So like, where is Giles?
July 9, 2008 - 21:12 ET by R D HelmLOL-Maybe he's that poor guy afflicted with"climate change delusion" that I have been hearing about all day.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
I think he had a heart attack
July 9, 2008 - 21:40 ET by PopularTechI think he had a heart attack after he learned that Climate Models had errors:
"...all of our models have errors which mean that they will inevitably fail to track reality within a few days irrespective of how well they are initialised." - James Annan, William Connolley, RealClimate.org
"These codes are what they are - the result of 30 years and more effort by dozens of different scientists (note, not professional software engineers), around a dozen different software platforms and a transition from punch-cards of Fortran 66, to fortran 95 on massively parallel systems. [...] No complex code can ever be proven 'true' (let alone demonstrated to be bug free). Thus publications reporting GCM results can only be suggestive." - Gavin Schmidt, RealClimate.org
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT,Say they are saying
July 9, 2008 - 21:44 ET by SemperrightPT,
So what they are saying that they didn't know crap but but they upgraded the program and now they don't know crap faster.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The MARINES don't have that problem."
President Ronald Reagan - 1985
Studies in cow
July 9, 2008 - 21:50 ET by danboStudies in cow farts.
From
Thanks to icecap.us
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
----
July 9, 2008 - 22:08 ET by dahliatraversNBer danbo rightly states in the comments section that the average yearly temperature has declined in the Mt. Shasta area since the '90s
Oo, look at the end of that graph line. Looks like the hockey stick moved from the graph to hockey games on newly frozen ponds on Mount Shasta.
I have heard that there are
July 10, 2008 - 03:24 ET by Rush FanI have heard that there are proposals to reduce carbon dioxide levels by requiring companies that emit carbon dioxide to purchase licenses to emit the gas. This ‘tax’, of course, would be passed on to the consumer in higher prices for food, energy, just about everything. Individuals would be charged fees for driving cars that emit CO2.
Rush Limbaugh mentioned today that there are even plans to tax those raising cattle since cows fart a lot of carbon dioxide. Who knows how far this will go in the years to come. People may be fined for farting in public, similar to receiving a ticket for jaywalking. If these proposals are enacted, I'm going to be wealthy. Why you ask? I'm planning tomorrow to purchase a lot of Gas-X stock.
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm voting for Barack Obama now that an AP poll shows people would rather barbecue burgers with Barack Obama than with John McCain. http://news.yahoo.co...
June GISS is in.
July 10, 2008 - 07:07 ET by danboHere.
They have a lot of missing data.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
I thought it would be
July 10, 2008 - 07:17 ET by danboI thought it would be interesting to see how much is available for 1980 against the base of the prior 10 years. Here
Is GISS using a smaller and smaller dataset to make their case?
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Age old Question....
July 10, 2008 - 07:29 ET by PolazerusWhat came first? The chicken or the egg. Did global worming cause the syndrom or did the syndrome lead people to believe in global warming?
It's
July 10, 2008 - 07:40 ET by danboIt's psychosomatic.
Listening to Al Gore or James Hansen would get anyone sick.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Chuckle
July 10, 2008 - 10:40 ET by ChuckM from PAThanks, I needed a good laugh today.
Noel, How did you come to
July 10, 2008 - 12:47 ET by meteor79Noel,
How did you come to the conclusion that "the average yearly temperature at Mt. Shasta has declined since the 1990s"? If you look at the chart you provide there are some fluctuations, but it looks like the average temps have increased since the 1990s. In fact, I did a simple linear regression using the exact same data on the average annual temps since 1990 and the slope was positive (~0.2 degrees C per decade), not negative. Am I missing something?
The mean temperture for
July 10, 2008 - 16:05 ET by danboThe mean temperture for 2007 was about 1 degree cooler than the recent max which looks like about 1993 for Mt Shasta. Which puts us right about where we were about in 1960 and the 1930's and 1890's. With all the GISS adjustments.
I took the liberty of running the means for the state of California as a whole at ncdc climate at a glance. Using the annual mean for 2007. The trend for the state since 1995 has been a minus .29. Since 1994 it's a minus .05. since 93 it's a plus .13. Since 1992 it's a minus .09. Since 1991 it's flat. Since 1990 it's plus .09.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
"The mean temperture for
July 10, 2008 - 16:36 ET by meteor79"The mean temperture for 2007 was about 1 degree cooler than the recent max which looks like about 1993 for Mt Shasta."
That is way different than saying the average annual temp has declined since the 1990s and tells you nothing about what the actual trends in temperature are. What you state above simply implies that 2007 was 1 degree below their record high temp. If you want to get a good idea of what actual temperature trends are you have to average over many years to filter out the interannual variability which is mainly caused by ENSO (for example, 2007 was a relatively cool year because of a strong La Nina).
So, what do you mean when you say you took the liberty of "running the means"? Did you calculate a linear regression, or just take the ave 2007 temp minus a given year (like you did before)? Please give me the link to the data you used; I'd like to see for myself.
Actually ENSO is only part
July 10, 2008 - 17:08 ET by danboActually ENSO is only part of it. There's also PDO, NAO solar cycles and a whole slew of others. Many we don't know. Not to mention station moves, urbanization, land use change, and quirks in adjustment. And does not prove AGW if there is a trend. Coorelations aren't proof of a cause effect relationship.
As far as California trends. Argue with NOAA. NOAA allows the option to run the trend line and gives you the decadinal numeric trend. I used that option. I got the numbers from NOAA.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Sorry. NOAA doesn't allow
July 10, 2008 - 17:43 ET by danboSorry. NOAA doesn't allow a link to a self generated chart or work. I wish they did. You'll have to go in through. If you want to go to states opt statewide. Click on the state you want, and have fun.
I'll run one to see if they changed that.... This is a test.
Nope, says our systems aren't compatable. I opted national. Data type mean temp. Period: Most recent 12 month period. 1st year 1998. Last year 2008. Results. 1998 - 2008 Trend = -0.32 degF / Decade
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
danbo - thank you very much
July 10, 2008 - 22:02 ET by Hermanodanbo - thank you very much for the links. Somewhat informative. However, I believe that most researchers fail to factor in one key component to temperature variations - the mass of the air related to temperature. In other words, the air temperature means nothing unless comprehensive data on humidity is used. Moisture-laden air is a much better heat sink than dry air. This is why it feels so much hotter when the humidity is high. Air pressure readings may also have an impact. My point is that in order to properly assess the actual mean temperature of Earth, we need to take temperature, pressure and humidity readings at surface and elevated positions. I am not a climatologist, but I am a chemist, and variances in elemental composition can have a dramatic impact on some experiments. It seems reasonable to me to think the same could be true of weather. Your thoughts?
I'm among those who
July 10, 2008 - 22:32 ET by danboI'm among those who believe there has been an attempt simplify the science. I'm also a non climatologist. But when I did research I had to deal with 80+ independent variables. And I think Climate is much more complex.
IMHO in the rush to embrace AGW too much has been ignored. Sometimes just denied. Or shouted down.
Remember the old rule of statistics. Coorelation does not imply causality.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
I said interannual
July 11, 2008 - 09:49 ET by meteor79I said interannual variability was contributed to mainly by ENSO. Of course other things contribute, but ENSO, by far, has the largest contribution. Also, PDO operates on decadal timescales, not interannual.
Of course a warming trend is not proof of anthropogenic warming, but it is proof of warming (assuming data is correct) at the specific location being analyzed.
I looked at the same national data you did through NCDC and got the same result as you. However, keep in the mind that the negative trend is only for the United States, which covers ~2% of the globe. Global trends are still positive for the same time period and longer term trends for the US are still positive. Maybe the US has been immune to warming during the last ten years... ha ha.
Whoa it's been warming
July 11, 2008 - 10:43 ET by danboWhoa it's been warming since the end of the plistocene. There's news. I assume those SUVs driven by neanderthals were the cause. Your point?
Global patterns are positive? Take your pick.
Or from UAH
What GISS doesn't show you. How much of the world is actually not considered. Just shift their smoothing radius from 1200 km to only a 250 km radius. All the gray is missing data. Instead of GISS's tendency to compare data to a natural cool period. I asked for the data compared to the last 10 years.
When you consider that the map is distorted as we approach the poles. I'd say the US accounts for more than ~2% of GISS's world.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
The point is that you try
July 11, 2008 - 11:21 ET by meteor79The point is that you try to argue it is cooling when it isn't. Also, picking 1998 as a starting point is a classic example of "cherry picking". In 1998, the strongest El Nino of the century had a very large warming influence on global temps. A much more clear picture of the global trends in temps is obtained if you use the same time series you link to above but start at 1970. Notice that many periods of short term cooling, similar to the one we are experiencing now, have occurred during the period, but the overall trend is for increasing temps.
What do you mean "what GISS doesn't show you"? You got that plot from the GISS website. You got it because they are showing it to you!
Also, In the plot it appears the US accounts for more 2% but I can assure you that the US is not given more weight in their calculations.
I'm sorry. Warmers are the
July 11, 2008 - 11:59 ET by danboI'm sorry. Warmers are the kings of cherry picking.
The only reason I got it from GISS is I know where to look and change the parameters they have set on autiomatic. This is what they normally give you. And you accuse me of cherry picking? They only allow me to use their "GISS analysis" not unadjusted data.
With so much of the world missing from the data set. You can assure me the US isn't over weighted? I'm glad to hear that. That's reassuring.
BTW. I see you ignored is it 3 el ninos since 2000. Or the shift in the PDO in the late 70's 80's, when you claim the warming. Or the el nino conditions from about 89-96.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
1970 and warming? I take it
July 11, 2008 - 12:09 ET by bassndude1970 and warming? I take it your not old enough to remember the headlines in nearly every paper in the country in the 70's hailing the comming of a new ice age. There is no data out there that can be pluged into a perfect computer simulation to achive an accurate forecast for tomorrow, let alone in 10 years. I have been hearing we only have 10 years now, for 28 years. All of your fancy computers and all of your so called global trends are all just slanted opinions, and you cant prove any of your predictions. Europe has warmed 1 degree C in the last 20 or so years. You can't tell me that is not within normal variations of earths climate. You dont know what normal variations in earths climate is. No one knows. You only guess and pontificate.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Bass. It's interesting how
July 11, 2008 - 14:20 ET by danboBass. It's interesting how he accuses me of cherry picking when he cherry picks 1970. Back in the last cool cycle.
But then I'm just cherry picking. Not making a cherry pie like warmers.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
I agree Danbo...none of
July 11, 2008 - 14:27 ET by bassndudeI agree Danbo...none of those warming guys wants to admit they are only using the data that fits what they want everyone to belive, what they belive. None of them want to go back and look at the entire history of the earth. The fact of the matter is, a 5 degree global average is well within historic limits. They look at temp only. Nobody looks at the entire atmospheric make up, temp and CO2 is all they want to look at. You go back far enough, and you find a 30% oxygen content in the atmosphere, and inland seas, Antarctica was not always covered in ice, as the fossel record bears out. The very idea that man can control earths climate, is obnoxious, born of morons and preached to the gulliable.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!