With oil prices approaching $150 a barrel, and gas now over $4 a gallon (approaching $5 where I live!), Newt Gingrich's American Solutions for Winning the Future has launched a campaign to force Congress to reconsider current policies that prevent our nation from drilling for oil within its borders and territorial waters:
As gas prices continue to increase, Congress continues to blame others while ignoring practical steps to stop the pain Americans are feeling at the pump. To lower gasoline prices and reduce our dependence on foreign oil, we need real solutions to our energy challenges.
With this in mind, AS has started an online petition, with almost 750,000 signatures collected already, with the following goal (video embedded right of actor Chuck Norris explaining the campaign):
We, therefore, the undersigned citizens of the United States, petition the U.S. Congress to act immediately to lower gasoline prices (and diesel and other fuel prices)* by authorizing the exploration of proven energy reserves to reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources from unstable countries. [...]
We want Congress to know that Americans of all political backgrounds support this effort.
Amen, brother!
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
ANWR
June 14, 2008 - 14:27 ET by tony23One of the places we hear so much about - that the environmentalists get so upset about, is ANWR. We're constantly being told of how much damage drilling there would do.
Want to see exactly how much "damage" would be done? I made a graphic to demonstrate that:
http://flickr.com/ph...
Look for the brown spot.
"damage" is in the eye of the beholder
June 15, 2008 - 20:39 ET by mom_roxEven though you wrote the word, damage, in quotes, consider using the term 'footprint' to note the impact on the tundra. I wish the public knew how relatively few acres would be impacted, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for the media to relate those numbers or that perspective.
While I'm on the subject, one of my pet peeves is when the media show pictures of the Brooks Range mountains when discussing drilling in ANWR. The 1002 Area is in the Coastal Plain - no mountains or trees.
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw, 1944
mom
June 15, 2008 - 20:46 ET byright you are and this is in summer when the suns out!!
Support our Troops
This country was built on
June 14, 2008 - 14:42 ET by mostlymoderateThis country was built on Manifest Destiny; both geographically and economically. Environmentalists and liberals are standing in our way of continued prosperity. Overly-zealous environmental policies are like a wrench in the gears of capitalism.
mostlymoderate... "Overl
June 14, 2008 - 17:30 ET by Clear thinkermostlymoderate...
"Overly-zealous environmental policies are like a wrench in the gears of capitalism."
That's exactly their goal!
"Abstain from McCain"
Use current leases
June 14, 2008 - 14:49 ET by Agrarian-DecentralistWhat Mr. Norris apparently overlooks is the fact that oil companies are currently holding oil leases on an immense amount of public land that they choose not to use. According to a June 12 letter signed by several members of Congress, "Companies could nearly double U.S.
oil production from public lands and cut oil imports by one-third if
they started drilling and stop stockpiling leases to pad their profits.
Today, companies possess nearly 10,000 permits to drill that they
choose not to use to increase domestic production."
It might make sense to those companies to "sit" on their leased land, but it certainly doesn't make sense for the rest of us. Here's is information on a congressional bill designed to help them "get off the pot":
http://www.dems.gov/...
How much proven reserves
June 14, 2008 - 15:13 ET by NL207How much proven reserves are under these leases? How much is recoverable and at what cost per barrel? How much further capital investment is necessary to utilize these "reserves"? Do teh companies that own the leases have the capital necessary to develop the reserves, if in fact there are any?
Further drilling is a waste of time if test wells have demonstrated no economically recoverable reserves. Neither you nor your partisan hack Dem link speak to any of these issues.
Last, you lack the intestinal fortitude to stick around here and debate, when challenged. Go smear your intellectual feces on some other board.
Those were my questions as
June 14, 2008 - 15:34 ET by jay_1975Those were my questions as well. You can have all of the leases you want, but if they are surveyed and have no oil on that land, you certainly cannot drill for oil there. The way the oil business works is that the refining companies will buy land and contract a survey/drilling company to explore the land. The surveys are taken and given to the refining companies to determine if the land is worth dilling. If it is, further contracts are made to drill, if not then the land is kept for future uses (such as building a new refinery if allowed).
NL
June 14, 2008 - 16:04 ET by Noel SheppardNL,
You needn't ask A-D questions. He's a drive-byer. He posts contrary positions, and never replies to questions or refutations no matter how politely you post them. ns
I am well familiar with
June 14, 2008 - 21:50 ET by NL207I am well familiar with his pattern. I wasn't planning to be polite! At least not with him. A-D has no stones. he deserves no courtesy on that score.
Attention Deficit guy (that would be you AD)-
June 15, 2008 - 14:59 ET by R D HelmAt some point (hopefully between now and November) the vast majority of Americans are going to awaken from their government-school induced stupor and finally realize who it is that is actually responsible for the hideous increases in energy costs across the board.
They are going to figure out that it is not the "greed" of "Big Oil" nor that of the utility companies that have brought us to this point. They will similarly realize that Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and Karl Rove had nothing to do with it, either.
As this long, hot summer drags on and Americans are having to reach ever deeper into their wallets to buy gas at the pump, pay their electricity and natural gas bills, pay their ever-increasing grocery bills, and driving those precious groceries home over pot-hole littered roads that state and local governments can no-longer afford to re-surface, a light bulb is going to go off in their heads.
They will understand that, for the most part, democrat congress-critters, along with a fair number of wayward republicans, have been in bed with the watermelons for so long that they have totally lost sight of what these starkly higher energy prices are doing to seriously harm those they are charged with representing.
When this happens, the feces is going to impact the impeller, and the responsible congress persons, along with their anti-free enterprise, tree-hugging and fern-fondling friends, are going to be seen running all out for the tall grass.
Should be big fun to watch. :-)
he truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
RD
June 15, 2008 - 15:20 ET byi doubt you'll get through. Let me explain: Agrarian-Decentralist ≈ farming-independant; which is to say he makes a living growing weed in Moms back yard.
Support our Troops
botg,
June 15, 2008 - 15:26 ET by R D HelmROFL!
I guess we now know why he never responds to comments directed at him.
-He can't find them. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Democrats "hate" the poor
June 14, 2008 - 15:04 ET by wdhorningSince high gas prices only hurt the poor (directly and indirectly) and insufficient domestic oil and refineries is one of the major cures, I can only figure that Democrats in Congress, who are the ones who block drilling and refinery expansion, must "hate" the poor. This is a strange "partnership" that the poor would vote for people who make them poorer than they already are, since the poor mostly vote Democrat.
Of course with all the liberal media not telling the truth about Democrats, it is no wonder. And that too is a strange thing, that the liberal press must "hate" the poor too, by making excuses for Democrats.
Here are some of their excuses and my rebuttals:
Besides "hating" the poor, Democrats know how to lie, lie, lie, as the above rebuttals prove.
"...but, but, but Three-Mile Island!"
June 14, 2008 - 23:04 ET by Cortillaen... is the inevitable, ignorant response to any discussion of nuclear power in this country. The irony (to me) is that the entire incident was a result of human operators mishandling the fairly minor problem that started the event. The plant's design actually took that possibility into account and had redundancy in place to deal with it while repairs could be made. Contrary to a widely propagated belief, the safety technology was not at fault, and that technology has only advanced since. Add in advances such as reactors able to use the waste from conventional reactors as fuel, and nuclear energy is a tremendously viable alternative. We have oft ignorant and occasionally greedy or malicious fools to thank for a scare campaign holding us back.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
We've got nuclear submarines and nuclear space craft
June 15, 2008 - 09:44 ET by Britcomwhy can't I have a nuclear car?
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Size constraints
June 15, 2008 - 11:50 ET by CortillaenNuclear 18-wheeler, perhaps, but I don't believe we'll be getting the components small enough for a realistic car-sized plant anytime soon.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Nuke Power
June 15, 2008 - 23:28 ET by BritcomIf you can get a nuke to fit in this, then I'll drive it! :0)
(its a Navistar CTX)
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Let me see if I undersand you correctly...
June 15, 2008 - 09:40 ET by BritcomYou are saying that the Democrats are sending the message to the American people that:
are all more important than the poor.
Is that about right?
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
my understanding is that if
June 14, 2008 - 15:22 ET by crsheddmy understanding is that if domestic drilling increases, there is no way to guarantee that that oil would be used domestically (god forbid the government dictated where business can sell their product!). that oil will end up on the open market, and since it has been said over and over that we don't have a supply problem (when the saudis increased production by 300,000 barrels, there was no decrease in price) it just means greater profits. even if that oil is sold domestically, how do we ensure that prices would go down? would the government regulate what that oil can be sold by the barrel? would the gop stand for that?
What is wrong with McCain??
June 14, 2008 - 15:31 ET by jefflebowskiAs many of you know, I am not a McCain fan and am not voting for President this election. However, why hasn't someone in the Republican party figured it out that oil is the best weapon against the DemonRats this year? It is obviously the dims and liberal idiot environmentalists have blocked new oil production and are endangering the economy and killing the working class.
Two reasons why:
1. Republican leaders are wussyboy idiots
2. McCain is a democrat
How much can you "hold your nose" McCain voters hold your nose? You'd have to be Pinnochio to vote for him. Two choices in the election..Obama and Obama light.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Hobson's Choice
June 15, 2008 - 23:04 ET by BritcomI prefer to think of my choices as being between:
Fidel Castro & Jack Torrance
---
Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
What is wrong with McCain? Alzheimer’s.
June 16, 2008 - 06:50 ET by R D HelmHas to be, because only someone afflicted with it could consider ANWR to be "pristine wilderness."
Seriously, McCain is as clueless as Barry-O on most everything outside of national security - and I am not exactly convinced he is all that sharp in that area, either.
I think it safe to say that, regardless of who winds up winning in November, we are looking at $6.50/gal, or higher, by next summer.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
"would the government
June 14, 2008 - 17:08 ET by ckc1227"would the government regulate what that oil can be sold by the barrel? would the gop stand for that?"
Of course not. That would be stupid. If you want price controls, move to Venezuela, or Cuba, or one of the other socialist utopias.
Economics 101
June 14, 2008 - 18:13 ET by PopularTechWe don't have a supply problem to meet current demand, that does not mean increased supply will not drop the cost. Anytime you increase the supply in a competitive market the price goes down. That is basic economics. This is already happening, more supply will simply continue to drive costs down.
Heavy Problem: Dirtier Oil, Though Cheaper, Sparks Green Backlash
"even as benchmark crude futures have soared above $130 per barrel, there’s still oil out there for about $105 a barrel. The bad news: it’s nasty stuff.
Heavy, sour grades of crude oil trade at a discount because they cost more to refine and produce less of the premium products like gasoline and jet fuel. Iran has had such trouble selling its sulfur-rich oil that it’s got 14 tankers of the stuff floating in the Persian Gulf unsold. So yesterday, Iran and Kuwait slashed the price of their heavy oil; it’s now selling at the steepest discount in at least nine years.
Meanwhile, as prices soar for lighter, sweeter grades of oil, refiners are expanding their capacity to refine the dirty stuff, the Journal’s Ana Campoy reports. Or at least, they’re trying to. Last week, the Environmental Protection Agency rejected a permit to expand a refinery in Roxana, Ill., after environmentalists objected. Similar projects in California and Indiana have also faced challenges. At issue is the fact that heavier crudes require more energy to refine—meaning more greenhouse gas emissions.
Trouble is, there’s more heavy oil on the way. Canada might have a trillion barrels of oil in its tar sands, but they don’t call them “tar” for nothing."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
PT... Can't help but
June 14, 2008 - 18:30 ET by bigtimerPT...
Can't help but wonder will happen with the Bakken Valley and it's production, they have the lighter sweeter crude grades last I heard anyway...
How many enemy within law-suits will come from this?
It never ends...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Chuck Norris for American Solutions
June 14, 2008 - 15:25 ET by jay_1975When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris. There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live. Outer space exists because it's afraid to be on the same planet with Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits. Chuck Norris is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for his left and right legs. Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding. Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice. There is no chin behind Chuck Norris’ beard. There is only another fist. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down. Chuck Norris is so fast, he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head. Chuck Norris’ hand is the only hand that can beat a Royal Flush. Chuck Norris can lead a horse to water AND make it drink. Chuck Norris doesn’t wear a watch, HE decides what time it is. Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door. Chuck Norris does not get frostbite. Chuck Norris bites frost. Remember the Soviet Union? They decided to quit after watching a DeltaForce marathon on Satellite TV. Contrary to popular belief, America is not a democracy, it is a Chucktatorship.
Cute, Jay!
June 14, 2008 - 15:51 ET by Cape Conservativeexcept for the "no chin behind the beard" section - Chuck showed us his bare face in this YouTube video.
Drill Here Drill Now Pay Less - I've already signed the AS petition and contacted my congressmen! (all Democrats so they could care less - but I'll contact them again and again before it is all over)
Same here
June 14, 2008 - 16:20 ET by jay_1975"Drill Here Drill Now Pay Less - I've already signed the AS petition and contacted my congressmen! (all Democrats so they could care less - but I'll contact them again and again before it is all over)"
Been there, done that.
I have been listening to
June 14, 2008 - 16:19 ET by bigtimerI have been listening to what I could stand this last week of members of the House and Senate regarding all of this...it is aggravating, infuriating all of that to say the least when it comes to the leftists refusal to face facts...purposely...
If we would announce we are going to Drill Often....Drill Everywhere....prices would go down in the market.
This gas holiday is a bunch of BS...what is going to happen after the holiday is over McCain eh?
We deserve you critters in Congress to quit blocking all of this for over thirty years now...along with the need for new refineries and less rules and regulations that take almost ten years top accomplish on some of these things...
Enough is enough...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
A couple thoughts
June 14, 2008 - 16:19 ET byFrom what I have read, America on average consumes 20 million barrels of oil a day. Let's assume, for arguement, Sean Hannity is right when he says one million barrels of oil can be extracted, it doesn't seem like it would bring gas prices down that substantially.
IT doesn't help that congress won't pass legislation to insure the gas companies aren't engaging in price gouging. They are not interested in building new refineries (only one application in something like 30 years). Oil companies have reduced the number of refineries over the years to reduce supply.
How come nobody jumps down Norris's throat for being a celebrity who is outspoken on political issues. I know the obvious answer is a roundhouse kick to the throat. Is it just ok for these these Hollywood actors to speak out if they are conservative?
sayl... LOL...how many
June 14, 2008 - 16:27 ET by bigtimersayl...
LOL...how many danged hearings do you want Congress to have about gas/oil companies gouging us, at tax-payer expense, that has showed that they are NOT...let alone making an asinine law like that...give me a break.
The oil companies should be conducting hearings calling members of Congress to testify about who has been holding up our production and our own self-dependency here in the US...we have plenty of oil here in this country...if anyone is guilty of the disgraceful prices....
It is THEM!...
... they are the ones who should be held accountable and voted OUT of office!
The American people really need to wake up across this land.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
sayl... LOL...how many
June 14, 2008 - 16:55 ET byNot to get into a long argument, but...
How long did Republicans have power in Congress. When did Newt bring them to power? Was it 1994? They lost power in 2006. For six of those years, there was a Republican in the White House. They did nothing to address this problem when it comes to our dependence on foriegn oil and drilling. So I think just blamming democrats is disengenious, because I think both parties have to take accountability for this.
Also, wasn't it Dick Channey who was heavily involved in crafting the latest energy policy? With the energy companies.
sayl... double laugh out
June 14, 2008 - 17:29 ET by bigtimersayl...
double laugh out loud...Clinton vetoed the Anwr bill, McCain with other RINO's defeated it once again in '05...did I or did I not say all of the Congress-critters who are responsible for this over the last decade or more let alone 30 years are the very leftist working with the greenies responsible?
They should be held accountable for this mess...I don't give a rats rear what the hell party they claim to be in.
...and having another hearing or a law against the gas/companies is INSANITY!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
sayl... double laugh out
June 14, 2008 - 18:15 ET byI apalogize for the assumption. I assumed when you said kick them out of Congress, that you meant the Democrats becasue they are the ones who are in control, rather then everyone.
I don't think a law would be totally out of the question. I do beleive the main problem in Congress is that most legislation that is written favors these oil companies when it comes to de regulation and the sort.
Railing against Congress is a good bait and switch. There are many factors that are probably more substantial when it comes to this problem. The decline of the dollar, China's Consumption, the corn ethenol just to name a few.
The substantial problem
June 14, 2008 - 18:25 ET by bigtimerThe substantial problem sayl...is that we have NOT allowed any drilling for over 30 years here...being self-dependent on OIL is first and foremost.
We have tons of shale.... we have the Bakken Valley...off-shore oil, I could go on adn on with links too..but can tell you are not interested and most likley a troll.
There has been plenty of money given for all the other renewable BS in the meantime...
OIL sayl...OIL!
IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!
Good gawd man...the Chinese are drilling 60 miles off of Florida shores...
Please get a grip.
Btw...Do you live in a big city where you have other altenative methods for transportation?
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
the substantial problem
June 15, 2008 - 00:34 ET byI just got back from the bar. What is really sad, is that i'm back on here, writing, as opposed to hooking up with a girl. No suprise there.
I just want to let you know two things.
1). The Chinese are not drilling off the coast of Florida. That is fiction. http://www.mcclatchy...
2) And I live in the D.C. area and actually work for one of those companies that are an alternative transportation method. There is a bill related to funding that is being discussed in Congress that hopefully passes.
And I take offense. I am not a troll. Well, maybe I am. I do not know what that is.
Do what??
June 15, 2008 - 12:22 ET by HumblepieWhy should the government fund you?? Why should my taxes fund you?? Do you fund me, if so please send $100k my why. A free system works because of ideas and funding from private investors, not government handouts.
As for the possibilities of new oil refinery's. Forget it, the eco-nuts will not allow it. Why do you think no new refinery has being built in the past 30 years. Why do you think that about 50 old refinery's have been closed in the same time period.
State and federal government makes a small fortune off of gas taxes, actually the largest taxes is assigned per gallon. Of that, only about 60% is used for so called highway improvements.
You want to improve our life, stop the BS and let us drill, build nuclear power plants and let the inventors invent. Go find your own investors and stop waiting for a government hand out.
You may want to research the cost involved in production and sales of oil. If only one generic blend was used, the price would drop overnight. But no, each state has their own requirement and the oil company must product limited amount of each. Therefore the price per gallon also will increase.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Wow, that's great news if your source is correct about China
June 15, 2008 - 12:35 ET by sarcasmoWhich may or may-not be, but consider...It also says:
Let's assume they're correct and China's doing nothing offshore. That only leaves India, Canada, Spain, Malaysia, and Norway -- oh, and Brazil, too -- drilling closer to our coasts than US oil companies are allowed to drill. But they're all in the category of "not China"!! Um...Way to accidentally reinforce the other side's argument. Keep it up, please, we need it considering Republican incompetence on the issue.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
No point me responding to
June 15, 2008 - 12:50 ET by Jack BauerNo point me responding to the oddest post in a while that "China" is not drilling off Florida .. as you covered it.
Sure, the only weird thing about the US voluntarily prventing itself from exploiting its own resources is that "China" isn't drilling either.
But half the world is. I'm surprised no British companies are there, given their experience in North Sea Oil. One of the world's harshest environments for deep sea oil drilling.
"Also, wasn't it Dick
June 14, 2008 - 18:40 ET by ckc1227"Also, wasn't it Dick Channey who was heavily involved in crafting the latest energy policy? With the energy companies."
No, it was Dick Cheney. And who should he have crafted it with, restaurant owners? Maybe you can help us out and tell us exactly which part he put in there to intenionally make the price of energy go up so he and the energy companies could make a lot of money by price gouging the rest of us.
"Also, wasn't it Dick
June 15, 2008 - 01:10 ET byI really don't know who he should have created with. I don't have all the answers. But...
Does it make you feel good that he created the energy policy with individuals who are involved in the energy game. People who probably aren't looking out for your best interests.
Does it also make you feel good he did it in secret, and doesn't want to release the information from these meetings.
Saylman, Conservative actors in ads
June 14, 2008 - 16:28 ET by jefflebowskiMaybe it's because what he says makes sense, unlike the anti-American Hollywood types on the left. Especially when they're only too happy to jet down to Venezuela and kiss Hugo's butt.
I don't take offense in any actor encouraging congress to open more lands for drilling.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
I like Chuck Norris
June 14, 2008 - 17:27 ET by jefflebowskiOne last thing on the Chuckster, I like him and hear he is a real good guy but I'd like to give him a slap for backing Mike Hucksterbee in the primary. You hear that Chuck? My name is Noel Sheppard and I'm ready for you anytime, anyplace!
Noel Sheppard
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Eh?
June 14, 2008 - 23:13 ET by CortillaenAm I missing something here? I'm seeing a post "by jefflebowski" signed "Noel Sheppard" and getting a sort of disconnect...
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
"IT doesn't help that
June 14, 2008 - 17:45 ET by ckc1227"IT doesn't help that congress won't pass legislation to insure the gas companies aren't engaging in price gouging."
What is price gouging, and who gets to decide what it is? Actually, it helps a great deal that they don't do this.
"They are not interested in building new refineries (only one
application in something like 30 years). Oil companies have reduced the
number of refineries over the years to reduce supply."
Then how come supply has increased, and how do you make money without product to sell? They haven't built new refineries because it's too damned hard and expensive to get one built due to idiot environmentalists. And think about it, why would anyone invest billions of dollars in technology that their own government is trying its best to eliminate? What refining executive in his right mind would spend billions on a new refinery to increase gas supply when the President himself has called for a 20% reduction in gas consumption? They could get a better, safer return on their money in the bond market.
Still, if you want a new refinery built, get busy building. You don't have to be an oil company to build one, making your argument....BS.
T doesn't help that
June 14, 2008 - 18:26 ET byI"m guessing when you ask what price gouging is you do it in the form of a rhetorical question, and do know what it is, because you immediately state that it helps a great deal that they don't do this. Why does this help that they don't do this? Who does it help?
Supply has gone down. Even Hannity states that we drill, there is more oil, and the price goes down. The supply is one of the reasons the price has gone up, among other things.
Again, they don't build refineries because there is no reason for them to, from a business standpoint. There are no profits involved in doing this. With the profits they make, I am sure they could afford it. IT has nothing to do with wackos in the Sierra Club.
"IT has nothing to do with
June 14, 2008 - 19:07 ET by ckc1227"IT has nothing to do with wackos in the Sierra Club."
Ahh, so you're deliberately ignorant. You could have told me that before I typed my previous response, though, to be fair, I should have known.
"IT has nothing to do with
June 15, 2008 - 01:04 ET byInstead of calling you ignorant, like you did me, I would like some examples of how an enviromental group has held up progress when it comes to drilling, and how they are responsible for these high gas prices.
Wanna know ultimately what is responsible for high gas prices?
June 15, 2008 - 02:59 ET by UnsaneRes tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
The Refining problem has everything to do with Environmentalists
June 15, 2008 - 01:13 ET by PopularTechHeavy Problem: Dirtier Oil, Though Cheaper, Sparks Green Backlash
"even as benchmark crude futures have soared above $130 per barrel, there’s still oil out there for about $105 a barrel. The bad news: it’s nasty stuff.
Heavy, sour grades of crude oil trade at a discount because they cost more to refine and produce less of the premium products like gasoline and jet fuel. Iran has had such trouble selling its sulfur-rich oil that it’s got 14 tankers of the stuff floating in the Persian Gulf unsold. So yesterday, Iran and Kuwait slashed the price of their heavy oil; it’s now selling at the steepest discount in at least nine years.
Meanwhile, as prices soar for lighter, sweeter grades of oil, refiners are expanding their capacity to refine the dirty stuff, the Journal’s Ana Campoy reports. Or at least, they’re trying to. Last week, the Environmental Protection Agency rejected a permit to expand a refinery in Roxana, Ill., after environmentalists objected. Similar projects in California and Indiana have also faced challenges. At issue is the fact that heavier crudes require more energy to refine—meaning more greenhouse gas emissions.
Trouble is, there’s more heavy oil on the way. Canada might have a trillion barrels of oil in its tar sands, but they don’t call them “tar” for nothing."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Oh Really
June 15, 2008 - 12:37 ET by HumblepiePlease do your research first.
Eco-nuts stop the building of new refinery's. We are currently operating at 100%. If we have a major storm and a refinery must cease operating, there is no other resources to make up the loss. So now we have a shortage and speculators will use this to increase the bid we pay per barrel oil. Oil companies would love to build more refineries and would be within their best interest to do so. Look how much profit they could make.
I love when people state "With the profits they make." Thats a catch all for, I really don't know what I'm talking about so will just through this statement out. So tell me with industry has expanded over that past few years? If you say energy companies, your right. Though admit their exec's need to downsize their benefits.
Its time eliminate the regulations and excessive taxes on oil companies and let them get back to business.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Please define "Price Gouging"
June 14, 2008 - 18:25 ET by PopularTechThen give me the number where this begins.
Give me a break - Oil Prices (Video) (5min) (John Stossel, 20/20)
Myth: Price-Gouging Is Bad (John Stossel, ABC News)
The oil companies CONSOLIDATED refineries, since it was cheaper to expand existing ones then to build new ones. Many of the ones that closed were inefficient ones subsidized by the government.
Gasoline production has actually increased 20% since the last refinery was built in 1976. That must be another big oil conspiracy, reduce the number of refineries but INCREASE the suppply.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Please define "Price Gouging"
June 15, 2008 - 01:26 ET byI was really looking forward to responding to this one, only because I saw the name John Stossel.
I actually read the article you linked to. Some guy saw that people depserately needed power, so he decided to drive to areas affected by hurricane katrina and sell them generators for double the amount they were worth. So yeah, price gouging isn't bad for those who are selling the product.
And you also reglect to mention that gasolune usage has increased by 25 percent. It kinda negates the production increase of 20 percent.
You've clearly never been in the wake of a hurricane.
June 15, 2008 - 01:40 ET by sarcasmoA generator doesn't get to the storm's aftermath down a road covered with nails by accident, and the people there who want a fridge & a fan tonight should have the right to make a deal with someone who worked hard and took risks to get generators to them. And if there's a willing buyer and a willing seller, guess what? The generator's worth what was paid.
You want the government to "protect" desperate people from the businessmen who want to give the desperate people what they want. There's a time value here, too. The capitalists will get folks an expensive generator in time to save what's in that fridge/aquarium. Do you expect people here to believe our "moral" government (that's supposed to "protect" us from capitalists) wants to do the same with "reasonably" priced generators???
And until you tell us the exact profit margin the first capitalist on the scene with generators is allowed to have, you haven't defined "gouging," you've instead unintentionally illustrated why capitalists should be reluctant to help people. "I might be charged with 'gouging' if I try to do well by doing good!" This is not some question requiring a lot of lefty windbag rhetoric about what generators are worth after a storm. It is a simple "what profit margin" question, and it can therefore be answered with a simple number nobody ever seems to want to give.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
You've clearly never been in the wake of a hurricane.
June 15, 2008 - 02:04 ET byAnswering the question in the subject heading, yes I have. The hurricane that hit the east coast in 2004. I forget what it was called, but I was in the Newport News area, and we lost power for a couple days. Luckily, there was no flooding, just power outages, but the local businesses were pretty helpful when it came to the distribution of ice and things like that.
I'm glad that makes you feel good people could come down and exploit these people who suffered throug this natural disaster. You use the word desperate. I like that.
I also like the word expensive. It surely is expensive when you charge double for what it is worth.
And let me bring this up, only because the original post was about a celebrity making some kind of statement.
While these "capitolists" were selling generators to those who needed them for double their cost, the liberal pinko Sean Penn was in his little canoe rescueing people. I think free of charge. Though, I think he made them watch the movie I Am Sam. I will admit, is cruel and unusual punishment.
No matter what you think of him, political beliefs aside, that is pretty commendable. But I hardly doubt you to admit it.
Still, as usual, no number whatsoever but lots of hot wind .
June 15, 2008 - 02:51 ET by sarcasmoThe question was simple. You'd like to use prose to avoid it, but you can't. I repeat: How much of a profit margin is justified? Yes, it's to help desperate people, but those people are kept more desperate for longer BECAUSE of 'do-gooder' laws against helping people. Don't want an overpriced item when it's offered because it's too expensive? Guess what? You don't have to buy it. But you're going to need to admit it if you can't come up with a number for what the guy trying to help is allowed to make. Do you admit it, or is there finally going to be an actual number???
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Okay
June 15, 2008 - 13:22 ET by HumblepiePlease answer the following questions:
Please just tell me how much profit does an oil company make from a barrel of crude??
How much do you pay in local, state, and federal taxes per gallon??
As a criminal offense, Florida's law is reasonably typical. Price gouging
may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency, or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency. The model case is a retailer who increases the price of existing stocks of milk and bread when a hurricane is imminent. It is a defense to show that the price increase mostly reflects increased costs, such as running an emergency generator, or hazard pay for workers. -Wikidepia
Capitalism is one thing, but doing the right thing to help out in an unfortunate situation is another. Helping out after a hurricane or tornado devastates a community should be the norm, not to profit off others misfortunes.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Nope.
June 15, 2008 - 13:23 ET by sarcasmoNot 'till you can numerically define "sharply," so that a businessman can honestly commit an act of capitalism by charging sharply-minus-one-cent in the act of helping others WITHOUT FEAR OF LEGAL BS OR ARREST. THAT was and still is the question.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
So much BS
June 15, 2008 - 13:38 ET by HumblepieNumerically define?? What was the asking price before a major storm was announced? How then can you justify any increase on certain essential items just because of said storm. That just plain profiteering. To you its just a number game and I have not seen where you have placed an associated numeral number on this issue.
To increase prices due to possible national disasters is profiteering off of misfortunes of others. This makes them no better than the carpetbaggers after the civil war.
It was after the events of Andrew that Florida began developing laws against "price gouging." After all, people selling items at increased prices are making a living off of misery of others. If you can not see or understand that then that would make you no better then them.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
So storms change nothing?
June 15, 2008 - 14:52 ET by sarcasmoWhy not let markets operate, instead of hating them? The situation following Andrew was LOTS of small time capitalists helping storm victims (who weren't being helped by government or anyone else) while trying to make a profit driving U-Hauls. This somehow happened without central planning. Did the earliest guys make more money than later capitalists? Sure. As they should, in every instance.
Transporting a generator down that far on US1 generally meant more than one flat tire the first few days due to roofing nails, for example. Those aren't free, even if you want them to be, and government regulations so vague you have yet to define anything (except an irrational hate for entrepreneurs) don't predict risks well. The risk of being shot/beaten by some lunatic isn't free, either, especially where the police explicitly warn they can't help you. Sigh. It's the result of socialist education...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Do what??
June 15, 2008 - 15:11 ET by Humblepie"Why not let markets operate, instead of hating them?" What are you smoking? "LOTS of small time capitalists helping storm victims" - Translation: Profiteers. You really have no concept on helping others do you. Most individuals bring "supplies" for sale in disaster areas are selling them at least two to three times the asking market price, and you don't see a problem. They are called profiteers. You try to justify it by stating, hey, I had four flat tires and thats going to drive up the cost. But yet you over look that most service industries have on order supplies ready to be shipped in bulk to disaster areas. You believe that anyone can justify the outlandish price they charge because they transported it for the benefit of the needy. These people are looking to make a quick profit from a bad situation. Translation: They're scamming, nothing charitable about it.
Now I have yet to see from you a numbers associated with so called "price gouging." So until you can provide a number as you suggest to everyone else, may I suggest you drop that issue and go back to the main theme on this article. GAS PRICES AND DRILLING.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Please Define the Number where "Price Gouging" Begins
June 15, 2008 - 21:08 ET by PopularTechOr is it simply based on "feelings"? So is the government now supposed to FORCE a perceived morality on everyone?
Would you rather have people willfully bringing in supplies and making a profit or wait on the government to give you handouts of what they think you need when they get around to it? At least with the "profiteers" you have a second choice of someone to get supplies from, the more "profiteers" the more choice. All price gouging laws do is encourage people NOT to bring in supplies.
ANY price can be justified if there is someone willing to pay for it! That is how economics works. Don't you get it?
Charities are at the center of any relief opperation (Red Cross). So are businesses supposed to become charities because you don't "feel" like paying a certain price? Price gouging is all about emotion not facts.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Humble, I hate to tell ya, pal, but all those price gouging laws
June 15, 2008 - 15:16 ET by R D Helm...are going to accomplish is to ensure that, in the wake of the next major natural disaster that occurs in Florida, many people are going to go without certain necessities at the time of their greatest need.
And, what is a sad irony, the very government that has driven away those who can supply what people will need, will itself not be able to make up for the dearth of necessities, either.
People are going to suffer needlessly as a result.
But, hey, all that will really matter is that all those evil, heartless, profiteering "price-gougers" were kept at bay, right?
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Don't you see? They're all "profiteers"!!
June 15, 2008 - 15:20 ET by sarcasmoSit back and don't help! The government will take care of everything, eventually...At immense cost and with lots of corruption & waste.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Disagree
June 15, 2008 - 15:23 ET by HumblepieLived in Florida when the five hurricanes came through. It showed that people can come together and help each other. Also, seen the convoy of supplies lined up at rest areas and such, just waiting out the storm so they could deliver their supplies. No profiteering, but vendors knowing and preparing for the worst.
There will always be "those" that will bring supplies, but not at outrageous prices. There are wonderful people out there that just thrive on national emergencies so they can take advantage of others. You believe its okay? The government has not driven away those that can bring supplies as you suggested, they are cracking down on profiteers.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Humblepie,
June 15, 2008 - 15:49 ET by R D HelmIf people want to go out and buy up loads of generators, bottled water and toilet paper, and give these items away, or sell tham at or below cost, then fine. God bless them and more power to them.
However, I do not think the government's role in a truly free country is to tell people what they can and cannot charge in any situation, regardless of the circumstances.
If I live in Georgia and a major Hurricane hits central Florida, and I have a load of supplies that would be helpful, why should I not be allowed to charge what the market will bear? After all, I have incurred a large cost in not just purchasing the needed items, but in transporting them in a large vehicle (truck) that costs $4.00/gal to fill up (or more if it is diesel powered), not to mention the time investment involved.
If the government down there is telling me I will be arrested and lose my freedom for doing this, then, guess what? I am probably going to not do it.
Profits are what drives this nation's economy. When you remove that crucial element, then nothing gets accomplished in an efficient manner.
You appear to think people profitting from their actions is unseemly. If our acestors had felt similarly, you would currently be living in a Third-world country.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Give it a break
June 15, 2008 - 16:13 ET by Humblepie"If I live in Georgia and a major Hurricane hits central Florida, and I
have a load of supplies that would be helpful, why should I not be
allowed to charge what the market will bear?" Translation: You are a profiteer, a carpetbagger.
profiteer ( ) n. One who makes excessive profits on goods in short supply.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Profiteer
June 15, 2008 - 16:16 ET by HumblepiePronunciation: (prof"i-tēr'), [key]
—n.
a person who seeks or exacts exorbitant profits, esp. through the sale of scarce or rationed goods.
http://dictionary.infoplease.com/profiteer
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Profiteer
June 15, 2008 - 16:21 ET by HumblepieNow that we have established that you both are profiteer's, lets move back to the main topic which is drilling for oil.
Yes, start the drilling. On top of that start building nuclear power plants. There are no short term fix for our problems, especially since you didn't head our warning at least 15 years ago. If France can power about 80% of their country by nuke, why can't we.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
You have failed to define what "Excessive Profits" are
June 15, 2008 - 21:13 ET by PopularTechPlease define what excessive profits are. This cannot be based on what you "feel" but must be a defineable number.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Excess Profits?
June 15, 2008 - 22:36 ET by HumblepieDefinable number? I have no problem with business trying to sell their wares at the best price possible. What I deplore is the individual who uses the pretext of a disaster to sell their wares at prices well exceeding the norm. Instead of working together to help our neighbor, we try to bend them over and steal everything they have just for our lust for the almighty buck.
As for a definable number there is not now, nor ever will be, a definable number that will be acceptable to everyone.
Shouldn't our philosophy be "Do unto others as you would have then do unto you." In times of needs, should we not help others?
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ The norm?
June 15, 2008 - 22:50 ET by Cool ArrowAll bets are off when disaster strikes.
If California falls into the sea, and my Ocean front property in Idaho skyrockets in value, who are you to tell me about "the norm"
There is a price to be paid for unpreparedness. Are you thinking flooding in the Missouri and Mississippi valleys is something new?
Hide and watch how many of these homeowners didn't buy government flood insurance even though they were encouraged to do so.
Fail to plan = Plan to fail. Unless you know you can use your dilemma to cheat the taxpayers again.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
As stated before
June 15, 2008 - 23:13 ET by HumblepieI stated earlier that most people I knew in hurricane prone areas were prepared. Even individuals on welfare had generators and essential supplies ready. People who didn't prepare are setting themselves up for failure. That being said. Why should old Johnny from Georgia decide to buy 20 new generators, drive them to Florida and try to sell them at a hugh profit. I worked all five hurricanes that hit Florida in 2004. In all cases except one, local vendors had enough stock available before and after the storm. Trucks were lined up on I-4/10/75/95, ready to roll. The one true problem area was the Florida peninsula due to extreme damage to transportation infrastructure.
That being said, please explain to me why you believe old Johnny deserves the hugh reward he's after? Why is he happy to sell his products well above reasonable prices? Why is he happy with other peoples misery? Is he really out to help his fellow man or just out for the almighty buck? Is this all part of the "screw them before they screw me" mentality?
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ Price Gouging is impossible.
June 15, 2008 - 23:23 ET by Cool ArrowEverything is for sale at some price. (John 3:16) Don't kid yourself.
If I've a bunch of chainsaws in the Fall when people don't generally buy them, can I force you to buy them?
But suddenly here's a hurricane and suddenly everybody's my best friend, I could sell 50 more than the 10 I have, but you're gonna tell me it's evil to sell to the highest bidder.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Price Gouging?
June 15, 2008 - 23:50 ET by HumblepieLets look at what I said before you say "price gouging" again. Its called P.R.O.F.I.T.E.E.R. You can say it now. Profiteer/Profiteering: One who makes excessive profits on goods in short supply. An individual who seeks exorbitant profits, often to the detriment of others. http://www.ask.com
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ Same pig, New lipstick
June 15, 2008 - 23:59 ET by Cool ArrowThere you go.
If you can come up with just the right word to describe your definition of "free market" you can get the whole country "in for a pound" on that socialism ponzii scheme you've planned out.
Did I say "gouging"? No, I mean "profiteering"
What's thedifference, and what's the problem with either.
What's the price of a hole in the ground and a pine box if it's not for a funeral? The same? Don't think so.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
I love it when everyone
June 16, 2008 - 00:08 ET by HumblepieI love it when everyone calls it a free market. Lets get real and give it a rest. I'm all for a free market, have nothing but love for it. That saying. You say that a free market give anyone the right to profit off someone else's misery. I'm not talking about the people in New Orleans who decided not to purchase flood insurance even though they live below sea level. I'm talking about the human masses who survive a tornado, live through the hellish night of a hurricane. They find themselves without power or any basic essentials because their house is now located two states over. All you can think about is "well, its a free market so I'll sell them generators, water, chainsaws, etc. for the highest price I can get because people will pay it. Basically your saying screw them because they weren't prepared, they deserve what they get. Please don't place John 3:16 in your blog. Your view on this subject is less than charitable or Christian related.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
What is a "Reasonable Price"?
June 15, 2008 - 23:38 ET by PopularTech1. If old Johnny cannot sell his generators at a certain price he will have to reduce them to a price people are willing to pay, if he finds out that the money he made was not worth the effort he will most likely not do it again. That is on him, he took the risk.
2. I believe old Johnny deserves whatever "profit" that someone is willing to pay him. Maybe old Johnny recently lost his job and saw an opportunity to provide for his family but it is irrelevant. Who said he was happy with other people's misery? Are the people that bought his generators unhappy they now have a working generator? Is it not the people who live in disaster prone areas responsibility to be prepared?
3. I fail to see how you derive Johnny's motives as screw them before they screw me. Wouldn't screw them be either doing nothing or going down and robbing them? I hardly see how bringing in supplies to sell is screwing someone. When the people have a choice to NOT buy them from him. But now have the OPPORTUNITY to buy needed supplies.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
With no definable number there is no Price Gouging law
June 15, 2008 - 23:25 ET by PopularTechI realize you do not like people to "excessively" profit from something but "excessively" profiting from something is not illegal. By stating this you are trying to define your feelings arbitrarily and that can never work.
See now you are confusing stealing with profiting. They are not the same thing, if someone makes a profit then they had to do so by convincing you to give them your money. Stealing is taking by force.
You have just made my point that by not being able to define the number there can be no price gouging laws.
I think in a free society it is up to the individual to make their own decisions. Overall more people in the United States will help others, including those trying to make "excessive" profits.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Nuclear Power has nothing to do with Oil
June 15, 2008 - 21:32 ET by PopularTechOur electrical generation is fine and has nothing to do with oil:
- Only 1.5% of the United States electrical generation comes from oil (EIA) (48% Coal, 20% Natural Gas, 19% Nuclear)
- The United States has 268 billion tons of coal reserves or about a 240 year supply (National Mining Association)
I have no problem with Nuclear Power and am all for it but it will not change the cost of gasoline.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I never suggested a
June 15, 2008 - 22:24 ET by HumblepieI never suggested a relationship between oil and nuclear power. I just stated that if France can power their country with about 80% nuclear why can't we. Price of oil will not change until we can develop our own fields, increase refining capabilities, take a serious look at imposed state/federal taxes and do away with special blends.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
"Excessive" profits?????
June 15, 2008 - 16:49 ET by R D HelmAnd, who, exactly, gets to define the parameters of "excessive?"
The government?
Sorry, but government has no business involving itself at any point in this process. A business transaction between two private citizens is just that; private. It doesn't matter if this transaction in taking place across the counter at a local Wal-Mart, between two people three thousand miles apart on the internet, or two people standing on a street corner after a hurricane has passed.
Besides, whatever the prices charged, no one is forcing anyone to buy. If most people refuse to buy, then the prices will move lower.
This is remedial economics. Nothing more.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
It's hopeless
June 15, 2008 - 16:55 ET by HumblepieYou don't get it and probably never will, so we'll just label you as a future profiteer and leave it at that. All you care about is how much money you can make from someone else's suffering. Congrats, may we hope it happens to you.
NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO THE ISSUE.... DRILLING FOR OIL.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Oh, I get it alright. The
June 15, 2008 - 17:08 ET by R D HelmOh, I get it alright. The anti-capitalists have succeeded in using natural disasters in order to introduce the idea that government should have the authority to decide what people can, and cannot earn.
Now that they have done so, the idea is spreading into other areas, which is exactly what the left was hoping for all along.
You, apparently, have fallen for it completely.
Now we have John McCain, a "republican" presidential candidate, going around saying that corporate CEO's compensation should be controlled by the government, as well as calling for an investigation into the "obscene" profits of the oil companies.
BTW-the overwhelming majority of those "obscene" profits goes to the retirees, school teachers, mail carriers, grandmother's, and many other ordinary Americans who are the actual owners of these companies.
How long before they come after yours?
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
No you don't
June 15, 2008 - 17:29 ET by HumblepieFirst you are lumping both everyday prices into national disaster prices.
The capitalist market is a free market where service and products are based on consumer needs and wants vs what the current market price is. Again, that is based on supply and demand.
During national disasters immediate demands on certain products is spiked upward creating a shortage. Most business and vendors plan in advance to meet possible shortages while others don't. That saying, it does not give John Doe the right to go and purchase 20 generators, transport them to the effected area, then sell at cost higher than current market price. That is called profiteering, get over it. They are thriving on the misery of others plan and simple. They don't care about their suffering, they only care about how much money they can make in the shortest period of time.
When was the last time you were out of power?? Now here comes John Doe willing to sell you ice for $20 a bag. Now I know that you will say "I don't have to buy it." Yea, OK, now your baby has endured the days heat and humidity and looks peaked. What are you going to do? The person who just sold you the ice is smiling and laughing because he just made about $15 in profit. But don't worry, its okay because he is just working in a free market.
By your thinking the suffering of mankind during an emergency is secondary. You just want to make the fast cash, screw everyone else.
As for McCain. Please don't refer to him as a Republican as any real conservative will call him by his real name RINO.
"BTW-the overwhelming majority of those "obscene" profits goes to the
retirees, school teachers, mail carriers, grandmother's, and many other
ordinary Americans who are the actual owners of these companies."
I think it's called taxes and I pay them also.
Now can we stop this tired argument and get back to the issue at hand..... DRILLING FOR OIL.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Excuse me?
June 15, 2008 - 18:10 ET by R D HelmThat saying, it does not give John Doe the right to go and purchase 20
generators, transport them to the effected area, then sell at cost
higher than current market price.
Really? John doesn't have the RIGHT? Why, because someone else decided he should not have it? Thank God we live in a constitutional republic, and not a democracy.
Exactly whose "rights" are being violated by John selling those generators, regardless of the price? Whose life, liberty, or property is being threatened by his actions?
NOBODY'S.
So, you are saying that John, who purchases these generators at market price, then, as you said, transports them to the affected area (thus increasing his costs well beyond what the local retailers would incur) must be forced at gun-point to sell said generators AT A LOSS?
I guess John will be staying home after the next hurricane hits.
And I guess those affected by the next storm better have a bicycle hooked up to a generator, as well as plenty of kids around to pedal it.
As I see it, the only "rights" that are being violated here are John's.
Period.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
And at what time...
June 15, 2008 - 18:26 ET by HumblepieAnd at what time will you mention that your local Home Depot had said generators on hand with more coming. John Doe is just living off the misery of others. If Mr. Doe is coming to help out in relief efforts, ie. looking for survivors, clearing debris, etc., fine. If good old Johnny is looking to make a quick buck, he can stay at home. It's called profiteering, you can say it I know you can. If you say Johnny is not out for the money, than he would sell his said generators for cost plus transportation, nothing more. But you can't.
Most people I dealt with who lived in hurricane prone areas had on hand a generator or two, along with flashlights, batteries, water and food. If your not prepared who's fault is it? Don't have enough money? Not a viable answer as I know retireees and people on welfare who had everything they needed to survive until power could be restored or help arrived to assist. They're not looking for a government hand out and don't need Johnny selling his wares at well above reasonable prices.
Just admit it, old Johnny is just trying to make a lot money from the misery of others? Can you do that?
This will be my last comment on this as the issue at hand is drilling for oil not old Johnny boy and your lack of love or compassion for their fellow man.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Government enforced "compassion" is the fastest way to
June 15, 2008 - 18:43 ET by R D HelmGovernment enforced "compassion" is the fastest way to socialism there is.
I wonder what your reaction will be when some busy-body type decides you are making too much money.
You appear to be among those who believe that people should not be allowed to make a profit on things that people need.
And you can be sure that the next big sorm that hits Florida will result in a shortage of necessary consumer goods.
Count on it.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
You don't get it so drop it
June 15, 2008 - 19:12 ET by Humblepie"Government enforced "compassion" is the fastest way to socialism there is"
So, a vendor who prepares for an emergency is a "Government enforced" compassion. Give me a break, FEMA will not arrive until three to four days after the fact. Woopie. Try reading all parts of the statement before sounding off. Let me repeat it: VENDORS DO PREPARE FOR EMERGENCIES!!! Water, generators, batteries, ice and such was/were available before and after the fact during most natural disasters. So quit trying to force feed the theory of government enforced compassion crap.
"I wonder what your reaction will be when some busy-body type decides you are making too much money."
I don't care how much money someone makes in a day-to-day business. But, to screw your fellow man during/after a disaster is the lowest form of life. Your below pond scum. You are feeding off the misery of others.
"You appear to be among those who believe that people should not be allowed to make a profit on things that people need."
Again, read the above statement.
"And you can be sure that the next big sorm that hits Florida will result in a shortage of necessary consumer goods"
Duh, they is always a run on basic storm items, thats a given. Again, vendors know this and plan ahead.
You think that man has a right to exploit their fellow man during times of crisis just for the almighty buck. One of the things that separates man from animals is their compassion for others. Not their profit level. A free market is a beautiful thing. I can buy and sell and compete with anyone, but, I must abide by the laws of supply and demand to ensure success. During times of disaster, compassion is needed not the greed of you or anyone else wanting to take advantage of others.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Like all social do-gooders, you only perpetuate the problem.
June 15, 2008 - 19:51 ET by R D HelmFlorida's anti-gouging laws are themselves a scam.
Scroll down about 1/4 of the page.
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
Saylman - Please define "Price Gouging"
June 15, 2008 - 20:52 ET by PopularTechPlease explain what it means and give me the number where it starts.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
There is no such thing as "price gouging"
June 14, 2008 - 18:58 ET by UnsaneRead my tagline. Carefully.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane
June 15, 2008 - 01:35 ET by RESTLESS 1You must remember. To the liberal of the species, ANY profit is price gouging. Libs think everything should be sold below cost, as in free. Kinda like how universal healthcare won't cost anyone a penny.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I think there is
June 15, 2008 - 03:08 ET by BritcomWhen a store already has an item on the shelf at a certain price, and more than doubles the price of that item during a disaster. That is price gouging. The item was already for sale at the lower price before the disaster.
Someone who brings a needed item into a disaster area to sell for a profit isn't price gouging unless they are charging 500% or more markup over the MSRP or the average retail cost elsewhere. I would say anything over 100% above cost is unethical, but 500% or more is definitely re-victimizing those in the disaster area and it is unlikely that anyone would have a justifiable need to charge anyone more than that.
The main reason that price gouging is a problem in disaster areas is not because of profit, it is because many disaster victims are likely short of cash because banks are closed, atms are down or empty, and victims need their money to buy necessities like food, medicine, batteries, and fuel. They shouldn't have to empty their pockets of all their cash on one or two overpriced purchases of needed items and then have to go without other necessities for lack of cash. Profit is fine, but with moderation during a disaster.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
If a store owner knows/thinks he can't replace the item anymore
June 15, 2008 - 06:39 ET by sarcasmoHe's justified to charge a higher price, both so he CAN eventually replace the item & continue to sell it and so that the free market makes sure the product goes to its best possible use. A generator at three or four times the usual price which saves an entire freezer full of expensive food might be considered "worth it" by the owner of the food, even if you'd have the government attack whoever sold it to him and effectively saved his expensive food. By forcing merchants to sell things at the "old" price despite an obvious change in market conditions, you're likely to see the generator bought by the very first person who'd prefer to sleep near a fan that night. Goodbye expensive food, thanks to anti-market laws.
Why do people and politicians hate the capitalist heros who come to help & make a living after storms? The aftermath of a storm is a nasty place. Imagine the worst camping trip of your life, but IT comes to YOU, and everything from hot showers to cold beers all becomes rare. Don't you know such hate-laws against capitalism discourage sensible help? It encourages potential helpers (who see from Stossel's story that they might get attacked by their own government(!) in addition to the other risks they'd be taking) to just sit on the couch, watch more TV, & let our obese government do all the helping, because the government was magically considered so-efficient after every previous disaster despite long experience to the contrary? Sigh...It's economics 101. I'm used to just battling the lefties on this one.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
for example
June 15, 2008 - 07:32 ET by BritcomAccording to my 500% calculation above, a $400 MSRP generator, for example, would not be
considered "price gouging" unless it were priced at more than $2000. I see that as a reasonable limit to enforce temporarily under a state of emergency in a disaster area.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Well, I disagree with you, but
June 15, 2008 - 07:54 ET by sarcasmoAt least you give a bright-line number, so presumably a capitalist who came down with a U-Haul full of $400 Honda generators knows he can safely charge $1999. Sadly, the law (like most lefties I argue-with on this point) isn't as specific with the is/isn't "gouging" numbers. This makes the choice between "help" and "remain planted on couch" vague and tough for people who, in a totally free market, want to take a risk (someone might rob them where they can't easily call the cops, or a business like Wal Mart might manage to remain open, selling generators at a lower price!) and help.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Natural Law
June 15, 2008 - 08:01 ET by BritcomThe rules of triage (loosely based on Natural Law) state that the person who has the greatest need for
an item gets it. So for example lets say that your guy gets in his
truck and buys a $400 generator and goes into the disaster area and
meets a guy that wants to buy the generator for his mother who is on an
electric oxygen concentrator and is dying of hypoxia. Your guy says
that his price is $5000 cash and the other guy says he only has $2000
and your guy says no deal. Then the other guy picks up a baseball bat
and takes the generator anyway and gives your guy $2000 and goes and
saves his mother's life with it. Now I would say that under the
circumstances the other guy was justified in commandeering your guy's
generator. Wouldn't you agree?
In
certain circumstances helping our fellow human beings is mandatory and
price is not a relevent factor. When law and order are broken down,
Natural Law is the fall back position.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
No, violence isn't justified in this case.
June 15, 2008 - 08:32 ET by sarcasmoWhy not mug doctors if you can't afford surgery? But your example of theft illustrates one of the many risks capitalist heros who try to help undertake. When the guy picks up the baseball bat to hit me in my world, he needs to get an instant but permanent .44 caliber lesson as to why stealing isn't just morally-wrong, it's risky.
And your example doesn't reflect the real world, either. In the real world of Miami-to-Homestead after Andrew, as you rode down US1 chainsaws & generators were available from multiple capitalist heros "gouging" many willing "victims." I recall watching asking prices for the same items go up as I went south, but everyone who was stuck down there knew there were MANY choices. Don't like one vendor or his prices? There was another 1/4 mile up the road.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Exacty my point
June 15, 2008 - 09:17 ET by BritcomDoctors are already required by law to save a life even if the patient can't pay. That is why mugging them isn't necessary. The same should be true in the example I gave. If there were a law preventing the seller from gouging, then the baseball bat would not be necessary to save a life.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
This is why
June 15, 2008 - 09:22 ET by sarcasmoSellers of chainsaws & generators had guns handy. And as for doctors saving lives, it depends on the circumstance, and we all know it, or the poor would get the same care the rich get. Let's focus on generators & expensive food instead of emotional issues like mom's life, shall we? You're trying to defend an illogical policy, so it's natural that you'd want to go to the most emotional hypothetical circumstance to do it, but what's provided by "gouging" capitalists post storm is usually just comfort, not lifesaving.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Profit and Loss
June 16, 2008 - 01:22 ET by BritcomI don't think it is necessary to apply price gouging laws to non-necessity items. Those items, if priced too high, will just not be bought during the week or two that supplies are short. Also I don't think it is nesessary to apply the law to items that are sold for less than $5 each.
But as I said, if items such as food goes up in price elsewhere because of supply and demand, then the 500% calculated price ceiling goes up with them automatically. I don't see a problem. Sellers are allowed to make a lucrative profit and buyers are protected from heavy loss.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Brit
June 16, 2008 - 01:25 ET by Cool ArrowI don't think it is necessary to apply price gouging laws to non-necessity items.
So explain how we deal wih the Saudis. Isn't oil kind of a necessity?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Saudis
June 16, 2008 - 04:08 ET by BritcomActually I was speaking of price gouging in a disaster area during a state of emergency.
But to answer your question, I don't think the Saudis are responsible for the high price of oil, I think that the Fed is through inflation (devaluation) of the dollar and also through the flight of investors away from securities to commodities like oil and gold.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
»→ Maybe you're right
June 16, 2008 - 04:35 ET by Cool ArrowAnd maybe in times of catastrophe people invest less in steak and more in Spam and bottled beverages.
I really think you're denouncing something you can't quite describe.
"I know price gouging when I see it" is not a very good dscription.
Does plywood go up before a hurricane? Absent an existing catastrophe, would that fit the definition?
I think we're better srved listening to some blowhard politician shouting "gougers wll be prosecuted" when there's no such law.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
before a hurricane
June 16, 2008 - 06:31 ET by BritcomDoes plywood go up before a hurricane?
usually not
Absent an existing catastrophe, would that fit the definition?
probably not
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Like I said, I like the bright line
June 16, 2008 - 01:34 ET by sarcasmoEven if I don't think there should be any, but most days I really don't need either a chainsaw or a generator. What's "need" after a storm? Hell, before Andrew hit I knew exactly what Florida's stupid government would do (prohibit anything fun) so after extensive home preparations I went down to the local Quickiemart with some green paper & bought Apu out of beer entirely (all types, even PBR) also buying most of his remaining ice in the process. Other customers looked at me funny, but it was the best barter investment I ever made. We may not have had AC, but we had cold beers & plenty of H2O, and the city workers with "bobcats," among others, soon knew it so things got done...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
So a 499.99% markup is ok?
June 15, 2008 - 21:22 ET by PopularTechSo it is ok to charge 499.99% over retail? BTW "over the MSRP of the average retail cost elsewhere", how does someone get this information. Should the government provide it?
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
499.99% yes, 500% no
June 16, 2008 - 00:59 ET by BritcomI think most reasonable people would say that 5 times the retail price is unreasonably high. Its a psychological number.
Many items have an MSRP printed on the label. I think doing an internet search for the item would produce enough prices to calculate an average retail price. Items that are common disaster necessities might have their MSRPs posted on the internet by the manufacturers if asked to do so, I am sure they would be happy to do so.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
If only the law were so simple to decipher
June 16, 2008 - 01:17 ET by sarcasmoWe could disagree on it, and we would, but at least an entrepreneur would know the bright line rule before deciding to commit an act of capitalism. Instead, any "profiteer" must politically interpret that particular day's meaning of "sharply."
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
»→ Excellent Britcom
June 16, 2008 - 01:22 ET by Cool ArrowAnd it costs Saudi Arabia $2 per barrel to produce its oil.
Surely this is suffcient grounds to invade their country.
They are price gouging by that 500% standard, aren't they?
Wouldn't we be better stewards of their resources?
Or maybe we should make our own decision to accept or reject their proposal.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Not really
June 16, 2008 - 06:48 ET by BritcomWe don't have to buy from them, and since the price of oil is set on the commodities market, they have little control. They could pump more oil, but I don't think that will have the effect of lowering the price, since I think the reason the market has set the price so high is because they are stupidly buying into the Peak Oil theory and "expecting" a shortage of oil that will never come. Until the market is either prevented from speculating, or the media and the government dispell the Peak Oil theory, the price is likely to remain high until it eventually collapses under its own weight and speculators flee and we get an oil glut.
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
Tagline, tagline, tagline
June 16, 2008 - 03:22 ET by UnsaneNOPE! Read my tagline.
Again. And again. And again.
Price gouging does NOT exist. Read the tagline.
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
»→ Unsane
June 16, 2008 - 03:28 ET by Cool ArrowBut your tagline suggests the possibility of markets in flux.
Shouldn't price be static forever regardless of circumstance?
I'd love to buy the old family farm for what my family sold it in 1960, but that evil landowner won't give me a refund.
Get this. He says it's now worth 20 times what his family paid for it.
He's just an evil price gouger, I guess.
/sarc
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Worn out lefty
June 14, 2008 - 17:42 ET by Clear thinkerWorn out lefty argument...
One of the arguments I hear from those opposed to more drilling goes something like this "we can't drill our way out of this problem". We know that drilling is not the only answer, but it will damn sure help.
I propose the following... Everytime a talking head is on any program and they use the above mentioned argument, one, if not all of the guests get to slap them in the face.
"Abstain from McCain"
Hi Ct... I have been
June 14, 2008 - 18:02 ET by bigtimerHi Ct...
I have been hearing that worn out old line for twenty years or there abouts...plus there just isn't that much oil there...we have to think of the poor caribou....(who happen to love the pipeline and it's warmth)...blah blah blah...with their constant lies via television and on the floor of each House which no one listens to basically...
I love your proposal...it would be priceless and stop this constant BS...of course we all know that'll be when pigs fly.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Hi bt... It will happen
June 14, 2008 - 18:06 ET by Clear thinkerHi bt...
It will happen if I ever got a chance to confront one of them on TV. Of course I would have my Lawyer on stand-by.
Maybe I could team up with Ted Nugent?
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct... Just picturing that
June 14, 2008 - 18:14 ET by bigtimerCt...
Just picturing that with Ted is more than pure happiness...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
It's a hell of a lot closer
June 14, 2008 - 18:05 ET by ckc1227It's a hell of a lot closer to being the answer than waiting on mythical alternative energy sources that currently exist primarily in someone's head, or at best, in a lab somewhere waiting to be perfected. I'm all for viable alternatives if they ever become reality, but today we use oil. I'd like to have a flying car too, but I'm not going to stop driving my land-based version today while waiting for it.
I also like your proposal. Also, everytime someone mentions Exxon, the host should ask them if they can name one other oil company. I bet they couldn't do it, lol.
ckc... Mythical
June 14, 2008 - 18:18 ET by Clear thinkerckc...
Mythical sources... I live about 10 miles form a small college that is going through with some expansions. They are very close to completion on a project they are very proud of. Their brand new Science building will be powered completely by Green sources. The biggest expense for them was installing a geothermal system for providing temperature control throughout the building. It started with them drilling 97 holes, 300 ft deep, in a parking lot across the street from the new building. Then they run the piping into the new building and into it's magic box. As you can imagine, the cost of this building is astronomical, especially for a rather small college.
About two weeks ago a caller to the Rush Limbaugh show said that Texas had learned the hard way about Green technology. He stated that the state helped fund a project that was going to use geothermal technology to produce power. Twenty million dollars later, he stated that this new technology has yet to produce enough power to run one lightbulb. Pretty funny huh?
If the college has the same luck as they did in Texas with this technology I'm going to laugh myself silly!
"Abstain from McCain"
20 million for one light
June 14, 2008 - 18:56 ET by ckc122720 million for one light bulb? Ouch. Yet Congress is furious over 1.8 billion in yearly subsidies to the oil companies for energy sources that work, $1.8 billion that was more than covered by Exxon's first quarter tax bill alone.
Heard a commercial the other night trying to get people to order some kind of solar-related kit that would be completely free to the homeowner. The commercial said "You can get this kit completely free...the government will pay for everything". I guess that geothermal project was free too.
TX, windmills and nukes
June 14, 2008 - 19:04 ET by UnsaneBrace yourself: on any given day on the Interstates that cross TX you can see windmill parts being driven out to the plains of this state. The last time I was in the Sweetwater area, I could see the windmills all over the place.
Now, they might work for some of the small electric consumers, like the various co-ops that supply energy for the rural areas. But they won't be enough for the major cities and industrial areas of the state. For that, I say we tack on an extra reactor or four onto the South Texas Nuclear Project and Comanche Park. TX only gets 10% of its juice from nukes. We could stand to increase that percentage...
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Unsane What about th butterfly effect?
June 14, 2008 - 19:35 ET by Cool ArrowErecting windmills all over Texas could have severe consequenes as the wind is hindered from its natural flow.
I just think Global Warming will be that much more accelerated.?
I've already noticed i's hotter in Texas than it was last year. We need to stop this nonsense before we kill the planet.
I know April 1st is several months away, but I just had to get this off my chest.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Cutting closer to reality than you suspect
June 14, 2008 - 23:17 ET by UnsaneBetter! We can't place them too close to the whooping crane's grounds in coastal Texas for that might cause their extinction!
And some ranchers don't like the noise they generate!
It is only a matter of time before your complaints become REAL, but it won't be on 1 April!!!
:-)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
»→ Definitely noisy
June 14, 2008 - 23:40 ET by Cool ArrowI was also a little shocked to learn when land is sold "wind rights" are also considered along with "mineral rights"
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Wind Turbines effect the Weather - It's True!
June 15, 2008 - 01:06 ET by PopularTechCatch the Wind, Change the Weather (The New York Times)
"Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly way to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount of energy from the air. So is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists have modeled the impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains. Their conclusion, reported in The Journal of Geophysical Research, is that thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Dr. Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not so much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer, drier conditions at the surface."
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
»→ Thanks PopTech
June 15, 2008 - 23:10 ET by Cool ArrowSomehow I knew my April Fools offering had traction somewhere in the world.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
The WIND blows most of the Time in West tx, panhandle..BUT
June 14, 2008 - 23:39 ET by JayTeeI think the Public is now Seeing TWO things on the NEWS...and I do not think any environmenta; WIND powered Chevy is on the drawing boards.
1. Saudi is going to increase production by 500,000 barrels a day. THis is importatnt because it POKES GIANT holes in the "We can't drill our way out of this" mantra coming from the 4th Graders in Congress (not smarter than a 5th Grader)
2. Chuck Norris, according to the latest Polls, has 57% of the Public behind him, and GROWING.
Congress is "ah fixin" to get a grass Roots message that they can't Ignore.
Lets Hope the 4th Graders can Read the Message, WITH comprhension above 70%.
The Republican Revolution will not be Televised
I love the Dims answer
June 14, 2008 - 18:46 ET by jefflebowskiWe're going to tax our way out of an oil crisis. You can't make this stuff up!
I would drill, drill and drill some more. To send the proper message, I would drill on the White House lawn.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
We're going to tax our way
June 14, 2008 - 18:55 ET by bigtimerWe're going to tax our way out of an oil crisis. You can't make this stuff up!
Amazing isn't it jeff...and the talking heads try nightly just about to portray this somehow as a good thing arms linked to the leftists party giving them free air-time for decades now!
Pure insanity...it is really hard to listen to the congress-critters and their well planned bunch of communistic BS on the their individual floors...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
The boogie man checks his
June 14, 2008 - 19:07 ET by general companyThe boogie man checks his closet for Chuck Norris
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Chuck
June 15, 2008 - 09:21 ET by BritcomChuck Norris doesn't have a chin under his beard, just another fist.
:0)
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Communist vs. Statist '08
Q. Is Panamanian born John McCain a "Natural Born Citizen"
A new topic
June 15, 2008 - 01:38 ET byI kind of wanted to start a new topic for two reasons.
1) My original post stated that if we drilled in the places people wanted us to drill in, it is only something like 1/20th of our daily consumption, and how is this gonna dramatically lower the cost of gas?
2) The girl in the t-shirt ads is really attractive.
3) Wish your father a happy fathers day today.
LOL-Maybe we should all just move to Tijuana.
June 15, 2008 - 14:02 ET by R D HelmI hear gas prices there are hovering around $2.00/gal. :-)
The truth is insensitive. - Neal Boortz
good call RD except
June 15, 2008 - 14:21 ET byguns are illegal in Mexico and the criminals have bought the cops so they have them. They more and more kidnap gringos for ransom
Support our Troops
»→ Evil price gougers
June 15, 2008 - 21:48 ET by Cool ArrowIf and when I sell my house, I expec to make a 220% profit on it.
What right does the Government have to evaluate the ethics of this transaction?
Wow, come up with the right descriptor (gouging) and it seems everybody falls for it.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Hard to read
June 16, 2008 - 00:32 ET by Cool Arrow*New
I love it when everyoneJune 16, 2008 - 01:08 ET by Humblepie
I love it when everyone calls it a free market. Lets get real and give it a rest. I'm all for a free market, have nothing but love for it. That saying. You say that a free market give anyone the right to profit off someone else's misery. I'm not talking about the people in New Orleans who decided not to purchase flood insurance even though they live below sea level. I'm talking about the human masses who survive a tornado, live through the hellish night of a hurricane. They find themselves without power or any basic essentials because their house is now located two states over. All you can think about is "well, its a free market so I'll sell them generators, water, chainsaws, etc. for the highest price I can get because people will pay it. Basically your saying screw them because they weren't prepared, they deserve what they get. Please don't place John 3:16 in your blog. Your view on this subject is less than charitable or Christian related.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
»→ Yes, John 3:16
June 16, 2008 - 00:40 ET by Cool ArrowOf course I can put John 3:16 into my post.
It's perfectly respectful.
Now all of a sudden you're begging for charity when you were bashing the free market.
Could you keep it on topic? are we dicussing charity or a free market?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
I guess we can only agree to disagree
June 16, 2008 - 00:57 ET by HumblepieWhere you see free market opportunity I see profiteering. I spent five wonderful days in a Red Cross shelter because my house was now located over three counties. So what if I had a generator, chainsaw, water, batteries, etc. After three days we were allowed back into what was left of our neighborhoods, a mass tangle of building materials that was now trash, fallen trees, power lines and such. By that time building supply companies were back up and running, water could be found in plenty along with other supplies by reputable dealers. My house and property was insured and was only waiting on the insurance company to send their rep. Five families, including mine, rented a place 70 miles away and spent the next couple weeks going to work and then clearing debris from our former residence. People throughout the country came and pitched in. No one asked for money or wanted us to buy their wares. They wanted to help people who had the misfortune to have their lives devastated by one simple act of nature.
After experiencing this and seeing how people can come together, without any pretense of reimbursements or other gains. How can you justify old Johnny trying to make a killing by the pretext that he is just providing needed supplies in the name of the free-market?
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ Which only means
June 16, 2008 - 01:14 ET by Cool ArrowYou experinced the goodness of humankind and somehow want it so written that all people should be treated as you were as a matter of law.
Bad cases make for bad law, and anecdotal bs makes for even worse law.
Question: Do you get the same sense of fulfillment when the government takes your money in taxes versus when you make a charitable contribution?
Yeah, let's agree to disagree.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Taxes and charity
June 16, 2008 - 01:33 ET by HumblepieTaxes is a necessary evil but I question my so called government representatives every chance I get. I don't like paying for education benefits for illegals, social programs for people to lazy to work or provide for themselves.
Charity is an issue that I take to heart. I seen charity at its best when helping to deliver humanitarian relief while in the service. I believe in supporting certain charitable groups/events. But I also insure I get the most bang for my buck and don't provide money to organizations that skim more for themselves.
Your right on the goodness of humankind remark. I, along with most of my neighbors were more than willing to provide whatever was necessary to other areas hit later by hurricanes. You will notice that most individuals wanting to help their fellow man lived through a traumatic event themselves. I was exhausted every night but fell asleep knowing that I help someone else. That is the main reason I have no respect for people trying to sell disaster victims comfort items at above reasonable prices. They are just making money off of other peoples misery. As I said before, I love the free market and enjoy it everyday. I was once owned a diner in Florida before the hurricane and there was nothing more enjoyable than providing an outstanding product at reasonable prices. I loved to have battles with other restaurants knowing full well that my customers would come back. Its all in the reputation.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ Humblepie
June 16, 2008 - 01:46 ET by Cool ArrowEven the Public education we now pay for in taxes was once a localized labor. Now it's fully blown politics.
Keep thinking the good thoughts about how wonderful our tax system is.
What were once vices are now habits.
What was once caring and charity is now the law of entitlement.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
»→ Humblepie
June 16, 2008 - 01:48 ET by Cool ArrowLYDSEXICS UNTIE
Taxes and death
June 16, 2008 - 02:07 ET by HumblepieWhat are two sure things in life.... Taxes and death. I daily disagree with the amount of taxes I'm forced to pay. And if I must pay it, why can't I specify how my tax money will be spent. Must I resign myself to fight the schools to teach my kids not indoctrinate them. If they don't like me now, wait until they start learning history. Do I have a surprise for them. I once asked a teacher how they could justify a payraise when:
1. They don't teach
2. They make more than a US military enlisted member with twenty years defending our nation. (still waiting an answer on that one)
Why should I be asked to support a convicted killer, rapist, etc. with free housing, medical, education and such. Don't we have the death penalty. Ah, thats right the left decided it was inhumane to put them out of our misery. No, we must pay for their continued confinement for the rest of their natural life. Why should I pay for a larger government, even though the current size continues to provide a permanent job for most inane citizens. Why should I continue to pay a farmer not to grow crops.
The list goes on. Don't worry, I figure its only a matter of time until the state of Maryland gets around to tax you before you can go to the bathroom.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ Humble
June 16, 2008 - 02:22 ET by Cool ArrowAnd let's be honest.
Neither of us know any of these profiteers or gougers we are discussing.
But we do recognize the Government has a penchant for appropriatng our money into programs we we know to be enslaving and evil.
If the Goverment wasn't subsidizing ADM and the big farmers, do you think larger parcels of land would be within your purchasing power?
If Bear Stearns had not been bailed out, my children could afford more house for their investment.
The Government absolutely loves the Nanny State it is creating because the Federal Government loves to make slaves of its people. Yes, with a Liberal Congress in charge and either of thoe two loser as President, I believe this.
Sombody's gonna get screwed when the Federal government gets involved.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
But thats where your wrong Cool
June 16, 2008 - 02:35 ET by HumblepieEveryone does know a "profiteer" and "gougers." And they all have government addresses. From the federal to state government, each and every one. Just check on all the pork that is attached to bills/laws. I always was amused when the news broadcasted that the military was buying $150 hammers, or coffee makers that would survive a crash. Who do you think came up with the prices. At the time government agencies, to include the military, was forced to make their purchases through the GSA (Government Supply Agency). We had no choice.
Everyone should review pending bills to see the amount of money being spent on pet projects.
Every small business owner knew the amount of taxes they paid was well above the norm. My question now would be what will it be like when either candidate wins the upcoming election.. God help us all. Only word that comes to mind is SNAFU.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
»→ No, that's where we agree
June 16, 2008 - 03:01 ET by Cool ArrowI recognize the Government is more nto greasing palms than supplying a service.
Katrina victims would have been better served if they'd been given cash than trailers.
And it's no secret trailers contain formaldehyde. If you've ever been in a newly carpeted building,that smell is formaldehyde.
Heaven forbid we open the windows and allow he stupid things to aerate.
But somebody got a nice fat contract for some Government purchased trailers.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
»→ Hey Humble
June 16, 2008 - 00:43 ET by Cool ArrowBasically your saying screw them because they weren't prepared,
Ever read the parable of the five wise, and five foolish virgins?
Here came the day of reckoning and the "foolish" had no oil
LYDSEXICS UNTIE
Someone must explain this to me
June 16, 2008 - 02:17 ET by HumblepieWhen I owned a small business in Florida I could co-op with other small business to provide better health care insurance at a lower cost to both myself (as the employer) and my employee's. In Maryland, its basically illegal. Why is that? Don't they make enough from the taxes they subject small businesses? Would it not benefit the state to allow this to reduce the burden on one of their holy social cows? They would be able to spin it as now they can provide a more comprehensive program.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.