Profanity in the Liberal Blogosphere: Urinating on Presidents?

Photo of Noel Sheppard.

For years, NewsBusters has reported the unfortunate incidence of vulgarity and virulence in the liberal blogosphere, as well as how some prominent politicians and left-leaning media members have expressed concern regarding how such behavior negatively reflects on the Democrat Party.

On Friday, this invective hit a new low at Daily Kos when a piece that was quickly promoted to the highly-coveted "Recommended Diaries" list had an extraordinarily deplorable title -- which will NOT be printed here for what will be obvious reasons! -- dealing with relieving oneself on the likeness of former President Ronald Reagan.

This piece of detritus is so vile (h/t NBer lumpy) I won't dishonor the former president, or my readers for that matter, by linking to it; before curiosity sends you over there to see for yourself, be forewarned to do so with an empty stomach and the understanding that you will be revolted beyond your wildest imagination.

This raises an important question:

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How can Newsweek continue its relationship with Daily Kos proprietor Markos Moulitsas if his website allows such commentary?

Now, before you question my understanding of the first amendment, rest assured that I am by no means suggesting the blogger that posted this piece has no right to express such opinions. Nor, am I stating that Moulitsas shouldn't be allowed to publish such vulgar vitriol.

Not the case. Go right ahead. In fact, I think it speaks volumes about what indeed is happening in the nether regions of the far-left that will continue to make it difficult for the Democrat Party to be mainstream as long as it caters to such.

Instead, the question is whether or not Newsweek wants to be affiliated with someone that would allow an article to be published at his website that not only deals with urinating on a "Reagan toilet bowl decoration," but also contains such imagery in the title.

This is especially true given the fact that Moultisas, in his own FAQ section, has guidelines about what can be posted at his website including inside titles (emphasis added):

  • Diaries which contain hateful or defamatory writing are prohibited.
  • Diaries which are deliberately designed to inflame are prohibited.
  • Deliberately inflammatory titles, or titles which contain attacks, are prohibited. Also, while this site doesn't prohibit profanity, please think very carefully before using any curse words in a diary title. [...]

When choosing a title, please avoid the following:

  • Profanity in titles is disallowed. The use of asterisks is acceptable. Profanity in the title of a diary will be changed by an admin to contain asterisks (e.g., "Fuck" => "F**k"). Profanity in the text of diaries, and in comments, is OK; just keep the curse words out of the diary titles.

Is "piss" a curse word? One would think that when it's being directed onto a former president it is. Furthermore, let's understand that beyond just the title, Moulitsas makes it clear that "freedom of speech" does not give members the right to post anything they want:

But, what about Freedom of Speech?

Doesn't the First Amendment give me the right to talk about whatever I want here?

No. Daily Kos is owned by kos. The servers are his. He pays the bandwidth charges. He makes the rules; we are here as his guests. If he decides tomorrow that anyone not posting in iambic pentameter will be banned, your options are either to brush up on your poetry skills or find/start another forum.

Controversial 9/11 Diaries

DailyKos accepts that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by agents of Al-Qaeda. It is forbidden to write diaries that:

  1. refer to claims that American, British, Israeli, or any government assisted in the attacks
  2. refer to claims that the airplanes that crashed into the WTC and Pentagon were not the cause of the damage to those buildings or their subsequent collapse.

Authoring or recommending these diaries may result in banning from Daily Kos.

Interesting. So, Moulitsas has the right to ban posters at his discretion, and makes it clear that 9/11 Truther articles are forbidden.

Well, what about articles dealing with urinating on a picture of a former president, Mr. Moulitsas? Shouldn't that also be unacceptable to you?

Or how about referring to said former president as a "stumbling f**kwit?" Is that less offensive to Newsweek contributor Moultisas than 9/11 conspiracy posts?

Apparently so.

Moving forward, what was really ironic about this piece was its intention to depict the Republican Party in total disarray:

When History is done with these people it's going to describe them as the ruin of a generation. My generation.

I guess this writer is proud of what's currently happening to the Democrat Party, especially with a civil war looming at the Convention in August, and incompetents like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Howard Dean at the helm.

Makes you wonder what grade this DKos poster would give the 110th Congress, and what accomplishments he or she believes have been made since the Democrat victory in November 2006.

This seems especially important given the following ruminations about the past:

So we didn't do anything about our national debt. We didn't do anything about our use of gas and oil. We didn't improve our nation's infrastructure. We didn't do anything about education.

Maybe so. However, what have Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid done concerning such issues since DKos readers and writers assisted in ushering them to power in January 2007?

Sadly, in this "diarist's" zeal to be inflammatory -- did I mention that's prohibited in titles at DKos? -- the failures of the left since coming to power sixteen months ago are irrelevant.

Color me unsurprised.

On a more positive note, regardless of the current condition of the Republican Party, and its unfortunate movement to the middle in the past eight years, conservatives should at least be heartened by the notion the Democrats continue to curry the favor of the Netroots, for the further they move to the left, the less they represent the majority of Americans.

Think about it.

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.


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Despicable

Despicable sub-humans.

Nothing will happen to them now, but when they reach the Pearly Gates, the sign will read "No Vacancies".

As you say Noel, words that describe these "people" shouldn't be repeated in polite company.

Gary

Gary,

Quick couple of questions: did you go there to see for yourself, or heed my warning? Also, do you agree with my decision to not post the title or the link? ns

Moulitsas is a secret "troofer".. I bet.

DailyKos accepts that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by agents of Al-Qaeda. It is forbidden to write diaries that: blah...

That must really enrage his posters because HE KNOWS, as do we all, that probably half his audience believes the opposite.

But I'm guessing that if he allowed the mentally challenged loons to post what they actually believe, he would so alienate those Democrats with an ounce of savvy he couldn't get any access at all. O'Reilly would run with that all night long.

"Senator Obama, the Daily Kos is a very influential website within the Democrat party and they support you. What do you think of the thousands of posters to that site who blame the American government for murdering 3000 of its own citizens on Sept. 11, 2001. Are you comfortable with that support?"

Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.

Unbelievable

So this type of material is what passes for civil discourse at the Daily Kos? Unbelievable.

Rest assured, now that NB has covered this, that diary will soon disappear down the memory black hole. After all, the left is the bastion of love, tolerance, and acceptance, right?

Rest assured also that some Daily Kos member will soon be here trying to justify this by pointing to some right-wing blog, that no one has ever head of, and accusing them of doing something similar. That seems to be the standard defense these days.

It Gets Worse

569 Positive Marks. 0 Negative Marks.

Superman, gotta be that ol' "new <LIBERAL> math.".

X amount of consensus percentage units. V/S data fact math.

F=ma V/S feels good ,as good as running out the clock.

Over 8,000 Bucks/ year. = 50% drop out rate.V/S "free market"

get em in the schools, HOSE them with the MSM.

mind numbed robots..

The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO

 

Online behavior study

A couple years ago I read a very informative study comparing the online-forum behavior of liberals and conservatives.

(Note it was done by amateurs, specifically a group
of students in a upper division psychology/sociology class) What they did
was monitor and record the interactions between conservatives and liberals on a
thread devoted to politics/current events on Bruce Springsteen’s web
page. The group of students doing the research seamed to be a mix of
liberals and conservatives.

What they found in their
study actually shocked the liberal students working on the study.

They found that an
overwhelming amount of the hostility, rudeness and anger came from the liberal
posters compared to the conservatives. They found a clear pattern of the liberal posters verbally
assaulting the conservative posters. There was a fairly stark contrast
between the level of venom and hostility each group expressed towards their
ideological foes. The liberal or left wing posters actively and persistently
sought to drive people who disagreed with them on the right, off of the
forums. In most cases the lefts hostility and ugliness caused the
conservatives to eventually exit. The experimenters of course observed the big difference in the frequency of
profanity and sexual themed insults.

One thing that was really shocking and disturbing was a
case they came across during the study, in which one of the more passionate and
extreme leftists actually went as far as making threatening phone calls
and real world actions to harass a conservative poster who had hung around and
resisted the normal regimen of online harassment. If I remember correctly, it
involved posting the conservatives home address, phone number and employers
name, I forget the exact details but it was really over the top.

It is only one study and an amateur one at that; but
it reflects the tone and online manner I have personally seen online when
dealing with the left.

Nothing is sacred to the left

These are the same people that gathered and screamed profanities at President Reagan's hearse as it and his family passed on the way to burial.

The unwashed left has no values. They are truly disgusting. The unwashed left will always make fun of those with morals and values. Have you ever really looked at these protester types on the left? They are freaks and have nothing to contribute to society

Noel, you were right not to post that trash. I don't have (or want) to read it to know what to expect from the Daily Kos.

i used to frequent numerous

i used to frequent numerous web boards. i was openly conservative, and for the most part, people were polite. i took a moratorium on most of the web boards after 2004's elections. apparently being a conservative is invective enough to be attacked personally, called all sorts of names, and insulted routinely and without provokation.

apparently 'passion' replaces 'decency' when it comes to the internet. and thus it was the shock of 2004's election results, when the newly-budding Internet culture was reminded of the existence of the Silent Majority, and liberal-types went bananas. if the entire of your world thinks like you do, then you start to percieve that those who do not are wrong.

i lost "friends" in 2004 simply because i didn't think like they did, and i've lost "friends" in 2008, simply because i said "i don't like barack obama." it's sad when people tie their identity so tightly to a political candidate, and it's sad to see people claim open-mindedness and tolerance, yet turn around and be anything but when you do something so simple as say 'i disagree with you.'

 

 

 

I have a cousin who has said he never wants to be within 500 ft

MisterJoseph, I have a cousin who thinks Obummer can walk on water and sent a mass email telling us all how wonderful he was.  Well, I replied back that I didn't think he was so great, etc.  He said he hoped if he saw me it would be in a casket (this guy is pushing 60) .  Fast forward-last Saturday our Aunt passed away (this is the first of my father's siblings to die since his half brother at Pearl Harbor).  He called my father asking if I would be attending the "festivities"-his words not mine and my dad replied that I would be flying in on the first flight out of Dulles for the funeral on Weds. and leaving that evening on the last flight back.  He  then replied that he wasn't leaving AZ even though this Aunt was his Godmother if I was going to be there.  He then asked if my "terrorist" husband would be there (hubby is in the Army) and my dad just hung up on him.  Unfortunately, this is the behavior of these people. 

BTW he loves the HuffingtonPuffington Post and the Kooks.

Hi terrig... Now that is

Hi terrig...

Now that is just beyond pathetically sad...he has mental problems IMHO...unfortunately some of us all have what I consider crazy relatives in our families.

Just my two cents.

'nuff said.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Hi Bigtimer,

Yeah, he's got problems that's for sure.  I never had any problems with him until I responded to his "manifesto" on Obummer, then I was the worst person ever!

The real kool-aid drinker

The real kool-aid drinker libs are all like this.  Beware of them in the workplace!  These people will not hesitate to assassinate the character of conservatives in the workplace and take other negative actions that willl affect performmance apparaisals and salaries.  They could care less about actual job performance.  They will form these negative opinions and take punitive actions solely based on politics.

This has led me to change my approach to business life over the years.  I now religiously eliminate these people when I discover them on whatever grounds I can find.   I justify this to myself on the grounds that these lefties are, by virtue of their intolerance of political opinions divergent from their own in the worklplace, harmful to the business.  They cannot be trusted to render honest opinions about the work of others who do not share their politics.

Huh?

"I now religiously eliminate these people when I discover them on whatever grounds I can find. I justify this to myself"

What, they now sleep with the fishes in the east river? You 'eliminate' people cause you think they're too liberal?

Leave the liberals. Take the

Leave the liberals. Take the cannolis.

Cannolis

LOL! ;-)

mandrake... NL will speak

mandrake...

NL will speak for himself...I know exactly what he meant though...if you run a business, big or small and a non-productive leftist with a chip on his shoulder that may have or does have an agenda to begin with in his/her life they will look for anything and everything to bring forth a lawsuit if possible...that is what he meant about punitive damage, anything to bring you or the company down...it has been going on for years...or haven't you noticed?

Trial lawyers, ACLU, feel good laws, over-bearing regulations that are so over-board it is beyond maddening.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Ya, but I was in business

Ya, but I was in business too at one time. And to give a person a bad annual review based on politics is unfair and self-defeating.

I worked with a few who's politics I detested..they were Quebec seperatist  supporters. However, they were also quite smart..so I gave them good reviews anyway.

"to give a person a bad

"to give a person a bad annual review based on politics is unfair and self-defeating

Exactly my point.  And I have observed that the Kool-Aid kid liberals will invariably do exactly this. Sometimes it is not a "bad" appraisal, but it is almost always a lesser appraisal than the employee earned on the merits of work.  They are not to be trusted with the best interests of the organization.

Actually, what I object to

Actually, what I object to most about them in the workplace is they will not hesitate to give a negative input or performance appraisal to an employee who has convservative or any other political views for that matter which conflict with those of the liberal.  Instead of using the goals and best interests of the business to guide their actions, they use Marx!  This is not just unfair to the employees whose lives and careers they taint with this trash, but it is self-defeating to the business as well.

So you do it to them

So you do it to them first!

Excellent plan. You simultaneously GUARANTEE that someone will be fired unfairly and that it won't be you, instead of waiting around to find out if the liberal in your office had any intention of causing trouble in the first place.

Bravo.

I find NL's view to be

I find NL's view to be incredibly jaded and narrow-minded. I've NEVER come across a liberal in the work place who wanted to take down the company or anyone who had differing political views than their own.

boa...you and cp seem to

boa...you and cp seem to either not have read all of this from the beginning of NL's comments or it is going right over you heads...intentionally.

Figures either way.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Well, I can't speak for Bal

Well, I can't speak for Bal or CP..but I really do represent the 'does Mandrake have a brain?" comment.

To quote George Harrison in A Hard Day's Night..

Q: Are you a mod or a rocker?

A: I'm a mocker. 

 

Perhaps "Kool-Aid drinking

Perhaps "Kool-Aid drinking liberals" got switched to all liberals in my mind. If so, then I apologize.

I'm pretty sure NL would

I'm pretty sure NL would consider me a kool-aid drinking liberal, so I reserve the right to be horrified by his sentiments :)

I believe the official term

I believe the official term is 'termination', which has some other more unfortunate connotations.  In the vernacular, "fire" them.  i.e., discharge them from employment.

NL... Anybody with a

NL...

Anybody with a brain knew what you meant...intentionally making a mountain out of molehill here....just so typical.

Just my two cents...

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Does Mandrake have a brain?

Does Mandrake have a brain?

In the context of this

In the context of this article, one might find that comment..shall we say delicious?

Oh I could tell you why the oceans near the shore...

Wait, so what you "meant",

Wait, so what you "meant", NL, is that you do pre-emptively fire leftists because, as a group, they're just unproductive agitators? And what BT is reacting to, RE: "mountain out of a molehill" is the (obviously sarcastic) implication that you do something violent to them?

But this is something you actually believe is appropriate; firing acknowledged liberals before they can cause any trouble in your organization?

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

That is quite sad, but just

That is quite sad, but just recently on this site we've had people say they thought King should go back to being a "hood ornament," and another who said that the only thing he wants to read in re: to King is his obituary, then he'd know another liberal soul was safely in hell, or words to that effect.

As usual, they do it so

As usual, they do it so it's okey dokey?  Of course not, I have never said that King should be dead, I just said that I was (and did) send my autographed book back to ME as did my brother and the picture that he used to be proud of.  Why you think we have to take crap from people like that is beyond me, you may think it's okay but not me. 

As for my cousin, I am saddened but I have done nothing to him except to say that my husband and I support the mission, he has to do this mission-not the cousin and that if he thinks that two bitter people who are living the American dream are the best candidates for office, that was his opinion but others in the family felt different.  That was when he wrote back and said that next time he would see me would be in a casket or better yet being put into the ground at St. Mary's cemetary.  Yeah, real nice but you probably think I deserve it though.

As usual, they do it so it's

As usual, they do it so it's okey dokey?  

Never said that.

Of course not, I have never said that King should be dead,

Didn't say that, either. 

Why you think we have to take crap from people like that is beyond me, you may think it's okay but not me.

Hat trick!

I'm saying that your cousin's attitude is not relegated to just Kos and kooky left.

 

Here is a newsflash for you

Here is a newsflash for you balboa-it seems to be more frequent on the left.  I think you would agree if you would get your head out of the sand and really look at it.  You implied that I had said something about King needing to be dead, I don't appreciate it.  I will not let you get away with supposition such as that.

It is more frequent on the

It is more frequent on the left, as far as I can tell. I didn't imply you made the comments about King. 

"...but just recently on this site we've had people say they..."

As much as balboa blathers on

I must agree with him. There have been post from people wishing Mr. King was killed by the car and a few other comments what are not in tradition of NB or most of us bloggers. I personally wish him no ill will, but, has and will continue to question his position on the troops. Remember, we're illiterate and cannon fodder.

As far as balboa, he has actually stood up against some of the rants at Stephen's site. Say what you will, he does present the facts... most of the time anyway.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Aw, shucks...[insert

Aw, shucks...[insert blather].

Humble ?

"I must agree with him. There have been post from people wishing "Mr. King was killed by the car" and a few other comments what are not in tradition of NB or most of us bloggers."

That was posted on NB?If that is true then they are no better than Kos Kids or those Huffers.I was in the army but as far as King or wishing any other harm that aint right.Well there are a few I would like to go nose to nose with but in a straight up way.It is a knuckle dragger thing.Olberman for one.Anyhow it aint right to wish someones death ...unless it is a terrorist.

How true

I have found that most daily bloggers here try to be civil, but occasionally some do more damage than good. I love the comments in "Weekend Photos." But to make fun of a persons because of personal misfortune or bad photo op, is another matter. If we don't have the sense to police ourselves then we are no better than Huffers. We must always remember to practice the "Golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

By the way we1199, Air Force rules, lol

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

There will be a few that go overboard.Probably me in some cases.Yet you dont see no death watches here or people wishing someone dead.Just a note Humble:The Air Force use to be part of the Army....lol

True

I always compare death watches to Islamic stupidity (ie, we will kill you for speaking ill of us.)

At least we had the sense to ask for a divorce.... thank you Hap Arnold. lol

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Crazy ol' Cousin, Terrig?

Sad to report Terrig that I have a brother (lives in Ashton, Oregon - explains a lot) that is equally keen on telling others how to think (feel?) and becomes even more deranged than usual when confronted with an opposing view (tolerant left?).  After being deluged with truther vids and other assorted moonbattery emails I politely asked him to take me off his mass-mailing email list as I didn't want others on his list to think I subscribed to such craziness.  Didn't phase him....emails kept coming.  I was forced to set up a block in my email account to stop his madness.  Caller ID is also my friend.

God bless you and your husband for your sacrifice.  As someone who grew up as an army brat I understand the sacrifice the wives make as well.  I don't think ya'll get enough credit.  Keep the faith.

Did you know yesterday was military spouse day?

Probably not, I just happened to catch it on Fox when W signed the Proclamation earlier this week.  I know it 's tough on kids too growing up, moving all the time, etc.

When I married my husband, my brother's wife was having a fit that we went under an arch of swords and that we were cutting the cake with his "weapon".  I informed her that the swords are basically used to cut cakes and for arches now days, not to ride on a horse and slice someone's head off.  She left the room for the cake cutting.  They're coming to visit soon, should be a rocking good time. :)

Did not know that Terrig

Thanks for the info.  It's about time.  Happy belated spouse day.

terrig...

First, let me say I'm very sorry about your aunt. I am also sorry that your cousin chose this occasion as the opportunity to pick a fight with you (and your husband, it would appear), concerning your political leanings, and you husband's honorable service to our country (my husband is ex-Air Force). I have a suspicion that there is more going on with your cousin than his problems with your political loyalties. Anyone who would respond in such an inappropriate, unprovoked and vitriolic way clearly has something else amiss with themself and/or their life. Just remember that this situation was not instigated by you, and reveals a lot about him. Hang in there!!!

"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American people. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."  President Ronald Reagan, January 20, 1981

I assumed from your article

I assumed from your article that there would actually be a picture of what the title suggests. Which there is not. This struck me as little more than over-the-top buffoonery, which did, I might add, make sport of Clinton as well. The particularly offensive image suggested in the title is certainly no worse than what is satirized in this article (which many fellow NBers liked the first time I posted it a few months ago) and the term "stumbling f---wit" is certainly no worse than what Clinton, Carter, and Obama are called daily by posters on this site.

I see this piece as an angry, occasionally funny, but mostly just silly and over-the-top piece of lowbrow writing. Not really something to get worked up about.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

And there it is

And there it is. I knew it wouldn't take long until someone used the "yea, but you guys do it too" excuse.

Well, trite as it may seem,

Well, trite as it may seem, explain to me why you all are being indignant about a satirical article that several of you refuse even to read for yourself, when cheap shots and name-calling directed at liberal politicians are all over this site. I'd be happy not to use the childish "well you guys do it too" if you have a reasonable excuse for this outlandish hypocrisy...

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

There you go again

"I'd be happy not to use the childish "well you guys do it too" if you have a reasonable excuse for this outlandish hypocrisy"

There you go again. Same old "well you guys do it too" excuse, only this time you're using it to justify using it.

I admit that I'm doing it,

I admit that I'm doing it, now tell me how it's incorrect.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Like my mother used to say

Like my Mother used to say: "If your friends jumped off a bridge into traffic, would you jump off that bridge too?"

In other words, if you think it's wrong for the members of NB to make posts similer to this, then it must be wrong for the members of the Daily Kos to make them too. But you are actually defending them, so you must also be defending the posters here that act the same way, correct?

So, which one is it? Is this type of civil discourse a bad thing or a good thing?

Crickets

Crickets

So, which one is it? Is


So, which one is it? Is this type of civil discourse a bad thing or a good thing?

Assuming you mean uncivil, then Bad. But so is throwing stones out of your glass house.

cp... There is absolutely

cp...

There is absolutely no comparison of this site to the leftists sites...none.

I for one am getting tired of this all....you on the left here are still here aren't you? How long do you think any of us conservatives would last on those sites for just expressing the opposite views without the profanity, immaturity and vile hatred I have read on those sites over the years...hmmm?

Btw...so what if anger surfaces here once in awhile, it is supposed to be a good outlet now and then when we have to put up with the tripe that comes from people like Moulitsas, HuffnPuff, King, Kerry and all the other leftist msm talking heads to-boot daily...let alone some trolls too.

There...I feel better. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

How long would you last?

How long would you last? No one's hand comes shooting out of the computer screen and smothers you for goodness sakes, you brush it off.

And I think that it is fine if anger surfaces here once in awhile as long as someone brings the tone back down. The fact is that lots of liberals read this site and never post. They see threads with hundred of mocking comments about how stupid liberals are (it was one of those that got me to register on NB) and they go quietly back to their own websites and get back at you by writing nasty things. Those nasty things will have more profanity than yours, but I really think they both do the same kind of harm.

So when I come here and say "Hey you're doing the same thing." It isn't to excuse the offense. It is instead to point out that when you respond by calling liberals disgusting and immoral you are just perpetuating the nasty cycle.

Listen cp... I am sick of

Listen cp...

I am sick of your smarter than everyone else attitude here...You know damned well I was talking about about how long someone like me would last on your leftists sites if I posted what I thought.

I am not playing your cuter by half arguments that you come back and play a day later and a dollar short...so save it for someone who really gives a flying fig for all your oh so cute above it all prose..

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

I'm not sure why my

I'm not sure why my "cuteness" annoys you so much, but I'm sorry it does! Is it the smiley faces? I use them to try and take the sting out of things.

I'm honestly trying to make a point here, but I'll let it drop for the sake of your blood pressure :)

Ooops! I mean  :|

 

Actually been to Kos Kids and Huff

"They see threads with hundred of mocking comments about how stupid liberals are (it was one of those that got me to register on NB) and they go quietly back to their own websites and get back at you by writing nasty things."

Actually that is a crock.Are those the same ones that do the Tony Snow death watch?Or maybe they hope Nancy Reagan slips in the tub and kills herself?Maybe they were the ones gloating over 181 Iraqi civians killed in one day last year.You can try and rationalize anything you want but blameing NB or someone saying because your a certain party your stupid.It isnt going to make you write nasty things.People do that on their own.So own up to it and dont try pushing the blame on someone else.There are some good people on here and they are liberal or seem to be but dont cuss every 2 words but actually debate.People like Jer,Shawn,Jason C or balboa(Closet Neo Con).You can make excuses but bottom line is no one forces you to post garbage.Just a note:I do agree that calling all libs stupid or whatever doesnt accomplish much.It really doesnt make sense to but we are all guilty of generalized at times.

 

w99...Exactly...plus I

w99...

Exactly...plus I will never forget when VP Cheney was in Afghanistan I think it was and the msm made it sound as if he almost got it by terrorist, which he may very well have, the posts on the left were horrendous like I couldn't believe about wishful hoping for his death...it was beyond normal people, and the left are suppose to be the loving we take care of all of you gentle souls on earth...oh please, I beg any of you here, just go to NewsBusted after the comedy segment has been on and see what these creatures say...it is unbelievable...I do not think I can stomach it again without coming completely unglued in response to them.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

BT

Yup it was Kos Kids I remember some there wishing him dead.Not sure on Huff.I have no use for extremes one way or the other.The problem is site like Huffs,kos kids , and DU are nesting grounds for these extremist.They sit there posting hate and feed off each other.Nice thing about NB is you can get into a debate without all the @$%# .Unless it is from me...)I do slip occasionally.

w99... I have to hit the

w99...
I have to hit the sack pretty soon..but I have never seen you ever get anything close to the vileness of these creatures...come on...you have never been anything but enjoyable to debate...in fact at times I don't even think of you on the other side anyway until you made a thing about it last night.

Hope you are following me here.

Anyhoo..have a good one friend. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

BT

Good night BT.Have a good week friend.

Who's glass house are you refering to?

Who's glass house are you refering to? This site is nothing like the Daily Kos, that's one of the reasons that I like this site so much.

Satirical , my eye

"I was mocked. A few of us mocked right back."

It this what you classify as satirical? That's a direct quote from your so-called satirical article, written by the author himself, followed by a photoshopped Times cover that uses profanity.

This isn't satire, not by a long shot. It's nothing more than pent-up anger released as profane insults.

JC

JC,

You are aware that Onion is indeed a satirical site? You think DKos is?

As for what members here call Carter, Clinton, or Obama, have you ever seen vulgar ad hominems about these folks published by one of our writers? Hmmm? ns

That article is obviously

That article is obviously meant as satire also.

By the writers here? Only Warner Todd Huston. But - and correct me if I'm wrong, as I do not frequent DailyKos - isn't this a user-submitted piece?

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JC

JC,

You think this was satire? Why? What leads you to believe that? Please clarify.

As for Warner, when did he write something that included profanity? ns

I couldn't say for sure

I couldn't say for sure that Warner uses profanity per se, but he does regularly and carelessly apply terms like idiot, moron, and traitor, both to politicians and those he disagrees with. Whether or not actual curse words are used is, to me at least, not really consequential.

I don't doubt that the author is truly bitter toward the targets of that essay, but I don't think it was the horrendously offensive thing you made it out to be. I really don't see the difference between it and the Carter editorial, except for the target of the satire.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JC

JC,

Wait a minute. When I asked you if an NB writer had ever published profanity here, you named Warner. I think you should either back it up, or apologize to him.

Furthermore, idiot, moron, and traitor ARE NOT profanities, and the difference is INDEED consequential.

Finally, I asked you to back up your assertion that this piece is a satire. Can you do so or not? Whether you don't see the difference between this piece and the Onion one is, in your words, inconsequential. You claimed it to be satire, now please prove it. ns

Noel...In the interest of

Noel...In the interest of accuracy, your original challenge to Jason was to supply an example of vulgar ad hominems--not the use of "profanity" by Warner.

Look, I like Warner--even  though he has accused me of being a communist sympathizer--but he does occasionally get a little too "colorful" with his rhetoric, and I would submit his following description of FDR would qualify as a vulgar ad hominem:

FDR is the greatest destroyer of America that ever strode the halls of our government....an American pariah....He was a petty, brash, hateful little man whose crippled exterior matched his blackened and bent interior.

By the way, Warner's NewsBusters profile describes his writing as "irreverant".

Jer

Jer

Jer,

That was my original request. Then, JC named Warner, and I asked:

As for Warner, when did he write something that included profanity?

As for Warner's FDR comment, where's the vulgarity? Now, granted, vulgar can mean many things. However, as it pertained to this discussion, and this DKos post, shouldn't it have been assumed to mean obscene or lewd? I don't see anything obscene or lewd in Warner's FDR comment, do you? ns

Vulgar does not just mean

Vulgar does not just mean obscene or lewd. Course, unrefined, crude, rude all also fit the definition of the word.

I think one of the many differences between the left and right is that most people on the left are not offended by actual curse words so much as they are by the sentiment behind them. It's a cultural, generational difference.

For instance, I have a pretty casually foul mouth in my daily life, but I am almost never deliberately nasty to anyone. On the other side, I consider some of the sentiments expressed about liberals in these very comments extremely insulting, whether or not any bad language is actually used.

For me, and I think most liberals, the key is the intent behind the language. If a curse word is said playfully, so what? But the politest of language can be used to deliver scathing attacks if you know how to do it.

As an example, this statement from further up in the thread illustrates my point nicely:

The unwashed left has no values. They are truly disgusting. The
unwashed left will always make fun of those with morals and values.
Have you ever really looked at these protester types on the left? They
are freaks and have nothing to contribute to society

You could include "f@#$wit" in there or you could not. It wouldn't change the meaning for me one little bit. And then there's NL, whose delusions about how all real liberals attack their coworkers and don't care about job performance is profoundly more scary to hear than some random swear word.

cp....You seem to

cp....

You seem to intentionally try to critique every little thing that your leftist thin-skinned heart doesn't like....why do you stay here then, all I can see from you is you are a trouble maker who wants this site and conservatives to bend even more with politeness to the likes of critters like you.

I'm tired of it.

Leave if you aren't happy.

What NL said was his opinion, like it or not...what jeff said was his opinion like it or not...your nit-picking all the time is getting way past old..and that is my opinion.

Jer..by the way...you too. Some of us agree with WTH's opinion about FDR...

I cannot believe how far we are bending here for all of you leftists. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

bt... Jer..by the

bt...

Jer..by the way...you too.

Meaning what?

Some of us agree with WTH's opinion about FDR...

So, you agree that FDR was a ..."petty, brash, hateful little man whose crippled exterior matched his blackened and bent interior"?

Jer

Jer... I am not going to

Jer...

I am not going to argue with you all night, I knew what WTH was trying to convey, if we cannot express our opinions here without worrying about offending everyone else all the time with every little word we say and how others are going to take it all the time... we are in big trouble...

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Well, bt...I didn't

Well, bt...I didn't realize you and I were arguing at all until you tossed my name into your post to cleverpig.

Jer

Jer ... LOL...and now

Jer ...

LOL...and now for a big sigh...

I shouldn't of used the word argue okay?

I just know you well, where you are headed ect. you and WTH have been going at it forever and you won't let go, so you used him for an example..

That's all.

I'm just tired of seeing the constant complaints here...mostly by the mushy middle and the lefties...good golly, just move on sometimes..I see where some people say this isn't in the tradition of NBs that haven't even been here that long, you ought to have seen it long ago...this site sure has come a long way baby.

I just think everyone should get some breathing room without the constant complaints.

My two cents for now... 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

bt... you and WTH have

bt...

you and WTH have been going at it forever and you won't let go...

Do you have me confused with Leon?  I said earlier that "I like Warner".  Furthermore, we have rarely "gone at it".  I objected to his FDR comments, and I took offense when he implied I was a commie sympathizer and that all my posts were jokes.  Otherwise, our exchanges have been predominantly friendly banter.  Maybe you don't know me as well as you say, or as well as I had hoped.

Jer

Then again

Some of us remember the beginning and although we enjoyed the articles we were driven away due to the constant fighting and outright hostilities. Now some come back but we use facts to sustain our argument. NB was set up to expose the left and their antics. In addition to be used as a sounding board, not as the smear campaign that followed by some subscribers. To have open discussion with the all-righteous left is what is needed if we are to change attitudes, agree, that some just blog here to prickle your skin. When they do, just sit back and laugh, regain your composure from wanting to slam your fist down their throat, then show them how stupid they really sound. And yes, this site have come a long way baby.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Well Humble, you should of

Well Humble, you should of stayed through thick and thin, the left has been here from the beginning with making sure everyday to count how many people were here on this site, making fun when it would be eleven or so...they have always had room here for open discussion, if some people here didn't fight at times with their vulgarity and crudeness, bringing others to this site also, with the help from Rush mentioning this site, plus donations and the hard work it must of took to get the advertizers, plus the endless work of course by the administration how do you think this site eventually came as far as it did...of course I know full well you have to sit back and laugh when you feel like doing as you describe with fist down throat...but to leave when others fight to help get this site to where it is and then come back and say everything is okay with you now grates on me...I enjoy going back and forth with the left here, always have...have a couple of friends even on the left..imagine that...I am just tired of the constant complaining by the left with every single word or phrase made by others that seem to offend them...it is endless at times.

To each their own...just my feelings on the matter. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Ditto

Totally agree, but my temporary departure was for work related reasons in a third, third, third world country. Can not explain the recent arrival of past subcribers.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble... Well glad to

Humble...

Well glad to see you back, I know I must know you then if you posted some but are using a different user name now...plus if your absence was due to service for this country I thank you more than you know.

Have a good evening...and a great Sunday. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Definitely a different name

Now retired, or retarded, depending on who you ask, and a lot more mellower. When asked by liberals on why we continue to fight the war, easy answer. It's the right thing to do as I don't want my kids to have to fight it. Peace through superior firepower.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

When asked by liberals on

When asked by liberals on why we continue to fight the war, easy answer. It's the right thing to do as I don't want my kids to have to fight it. Peace through superior firepower.

Amen to that. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

I just don't see "peace

I just don't see "peace through superior firepower" as a tenable long-term foreign policy philosophy. Guess we'll see how that goes...

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Of course you don't

Of course you don't Jason...wouldn't expect anything different either coming from you.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Yeah, like "peace through superior appeasement" has worked.

Just ask Neville Chamberlain and Jihad Jimmy how that approach has worked out.

Not very well, I'd say.

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

It's not like the superior

It's not like the superior firepower is doing a super bang-up job at the moment, is it? I mean, it's good for subduing your enemies, less so for rebuilding infrastructure and winning hearts and mindes, no?

I'm just not sure "peace" is the thing it will ultimately attain, but now I sound like a washed-up 60s holdover, which is never desirable to someone born during Reagan's presidency, so I'll leave it at that.

Oh, and Happy Mother's Day BT and all others...

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

BT

Mushy middles?Ouch.Gee I didnt know I was mushy.I guess I will have to watch the carbs.

W99... LOL...now that is

W99...

LOL...now that is funny coming from you...I never would even think of you and you know it...we've always got along...and you haven't picked on every single word or phrase someone says all the time just to whine or point fingers.

You know what I meant.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

BT

This is true and I can understand if someone takes something out context it ticks someone off.I know it will tick me off.I dont miss Prof Truth.To me he was a leftist.There may be some on here that are liberal but rare to see a leftist.Same as there are conservatives on here but rare to see a post from the far right.I dont like extremist and that is why I like NB.The Debate isnt closed. 

Dang 99

Stop doing the AF PT test and get back to the program son.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

LMAO

Actually retired from the Guard in 98.Between the Guard and Army I had 23 years so the only running I do is to the fridge.It is a tough job but someone has to do it.

LOL

Working up to the 12oz curls?

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Well Humble

Not unless it is a coffee mug.Had to give up the other years ago because of blood pressure.Oh well.Still like to get those late nite snacks.. 

It's funny

Use to love "Commander's Call" at the NCO club. Now its coffee, OJ, and pretzels. YumYum.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Yup.Remember those days.Now more bland food but havent given up jalepenoes or hot sauce.  

LOL

Staples needed for MRE's.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Aint that the truth...lol I prefered the old Cs to Meals Regurgitated then Eaten.

What I think the liberals

What I think the liberals on this site find incredibly grating, and worth arguing against, is the propping up of obviously over-the-top pieces like this as indicative of liberalism as a whole. I, for instance, would not hold up WTH's FDR thing as symptomatic of conservatism. Really, have any of you seen us doing this? We, meanwhile, are lumped in with "the unwashed left" just because we don't convulse with self-righteous indignance over a silly satirical essay?

Weak.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JasonC

Arent you doing the same?Arent you lumping everyone together on lumping all liberals on this site with "the unwashed left" .

How am I doing that? There

How am I doing that? There was, indeed, a poster on here that referred to liberals as the unwashed left. And there is ample, empirical evidence, on this board and most others, tht posters on NB like to generalize about liberals. Have you ever noticed how many posts here start with "Liberals always" or "Liberal logic means that [insert sarcastic meme about global warming hypocrisy or whatever the outrage du jour is]." And liberals do that on other sites to, don't get me wrong.

The problem though, and I do think it's worth pointing out, is that here on NB, another big point of pride is how conservatives are sooo above the vulgarity (and no I do not refer specifically to George Carlin's "Words You Can't Say") and dirty tricks of the left, yet that is often contradicted by the tenor of posts we get here.  Including a description of a person pissing in Reagan's face might be more juvenile and vulgar than the average NB post, but if you think that all NB posters are above being equally hateful and unreasonable, you are deluded. 

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JC

JC,

However, aren't you tossing out a red herring here? Do you see any difference between the articles posted at a website and the comments about said articles? Or is it all the same? ns

Noel, as I mentioned

Noel, as I mentioned earlier, it seems that the article in question on Kos was submitted by a DK user with no official affiliation with the site or its administrators. That they let it remain seems no different from NB allowing forum topics to stay up despite the fact that they occasionally meander into the realm of breathtaking stupidity.

As I logged on last night to read some of the responses on this board, one of the Recent Comment links was simply the words "Al Whore"; an epithet that is certainly not rare on NB. Or how about "Hitlery". Is calling a former vice president a name that implies prostitution or calling a former first lady/presidential candidate a name that implies Nazism really any better than the Kos diary, despite the formers' lack of according-to-Hoyle profanity?

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JC

JC,

I very much disagree, as once a diary at DKos is promoted to the Recommended List, it will get hundreds of thousands of reads. If it is INDEED considered offensive, it should be removed. If it is not, the management are de facto assisting in the dissemination of the offensive post.

By contrast, comments here are NEVER promoted to the front page, nor are forum topics. As such, I believe your analogy to be totally flawed.

As an aside, I must say I find it fascinating how strongly three of the liberal posters at this website are not only defending this vile piece of manure, but are suggesting that we at NB do the same thing. Very telling. ns

I agree Noel - Newsbusters is overly concerned with offending

In my opinion. Many things get deleted (that are not that bad) without explanation and I find it quite annoying.

NS, so the big difference

NS, so the big difference is that Kos gave this article, along with scores of others, a certain designation that made it somewhat more accessible? We really seem to be splitting hairs. From the frontpage, one still had to click on "Diaries" and then "Recommended" and then search for the particular entry among several others. It's not like there was a link on the front page screaming "Read this awesome anti-Reagan Article!!!!"

I don't want to come off like I think this is some brilliant piece of political satire (though as we discussed before, I do believe it is more satirical than you give it credit for, and no, I can't prove that, as it is indeed a subjective thing), nor do I want to suggest that NB is more crass than Kos. I simply want those who take that article's very existence as some sort of wide-swath proof that liberalism is inherently tasteless, hateful, crass, &c. That's a seriously obnoxious attitude when epithets like Al Whore and Hitlery are de rigeur. Do you agree that that kind of namecalling is as 'vulgar' as the Reagan urinal cake thing, regardless of what status the masthead of the repsective website accords to it?

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

JC

JC,

Not true. Once it's in the Recommended Diaries list, it is in on the front page. Such diaries get hundreds of thousands of views due to their prominent placing at his website. And, I fervently believe by leaving it there, or not deleted it completely, management is endorsing its disgraceful content.

Remember that I said in my post that they have the right to do so. The question is whether or not Newsweek wants to be associated with such.

Taking this a step further, if someone created a forum topic here of similar subject matter and title, we would have killed it and probably banned the member. Understood? ns

Fair enough. I am not a

Fair enough. I am not a regular Kos denizen, and don't really know how they do things. Although in looking for the article in question this morning, I stumbled across a video of Bill O'Reilly from maybe 20 years ago, swearing and freaking out at a production assistant. Very amusing.

I am still curious, though, do you believe that the Reagan thing, simply by virtue of the involvement of scatology, is inherently worse than Al Whore and Hitlery? Because NB does not seem even remotely concerned with that level of discourse on its own turf.

And finally, I think Markos' Newsweek columns are perfectly reasonable; liberal, yes, but certainly not outrageous.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Jason C

"We, meanwhile, are lumped in with "the unwashed left" just because we don't convulse with self-righteous indignance over a silly satirical essay?"

You mean because one poster said that everyone goes along with it?That is weak.I do agree there is a generalization when it comes to liberals but arent you doing it with conservatives with this statement?

 "The problem though, and I do think it's worth pointing out, is that here on NB, another big point of pride is how conservatives are sooo above the vulgarity (and no I do not refer specifically to George Carlin's "Words You Can't Say") and dirty tricks of the left, yet that is often contradicted by the tenor of posts we get here."

Seems like your doing the same thing.

 

bt

out of curiosity, how far are you bending over for all the leftist?

If you are, how so?

Cute shawn. "Never murder

Cute shawn.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

i'm not trying to be cute bt

You demanded clarification about my comment about Bush and Rhinos on the Oliver Stone thread .

Your making a blanket statement about bending over backwards for the leftist here, so if it true, surely you can provide an example.

shawn...I have never

shawn...I have never demanded anything.

I am not playing your game tonight.

Simple as that.

You and your family have a nice Mother's Day for your wife tomorrow, that is what really matters in life. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

bt

No games here, i'm sorry you think that I am somehow baiting. Thx for the mothers day wishes.

You're welcome shawn...and

You're welcome shawn...and I meant that.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

I know you did bt :-)

I hope you have a great Mothers Day as well. Let me tell you about my wife's fabulous first mothers day.

Our daughter was just 6 months old and I just got her flowers. My wife was so happy that day. We were driving home and it was a beautiful day and we were only a few blocks from home, so she wanted to walk home the rest of the way.

She got out of the car and I accidentally left the car in drive and the car started to move, I went to hit the brake, but hit the gas instead and drove over my wifes foot.

Luckily no broken bones and that was 7 years ago, but to this day, it gets mentioned every year.

Well..... you make it past

Well..... you make it past that so called 7 year itch thing in a marriage you've got it made.

Have a good one...just don't run over her foot again, but be sure a woman never forgets either way and we are always here to remind you of that fact.

LOL...

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

I'm tired of it. Leave


I'm tired of it.


Leave if you aren't happy.

So you want DailyKos to clean up their act, but you don't want to hear a peep out of anybody when they think someone at NB has gone over the line.

Think about this a little more carefully. You're tired of my complaining, but don't you wish someone at DKos was doing exactly what I'm doing now? Pointing out, politely, when discourse has gone beyond civil? What's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander. Sorry I annoy you, but I honestly think that just by being here myself and the other liberals on this site change the tone of the conversations we participate in. You all are much less likely to make "all liberals are _______" statements when you are reminded that there are actual liberals reading your post.

Anyway, I'd love to hear about all of the costly concessions you've made and difficulties you've endured bending for us leftists. If you mean keeping a civil tongue in your head, then I applaud your brave sacrifice.

cp... GET a LIFE...move

cp...

GET a LIFE...move on and get over yourself.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

bigtimer , I agree 100%

waste case whinner.

The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO

 

Hi upc... It is getting

Hi upc...

It is getting so past old now...and thanks.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Hi bt, calories listed on menus or H bombs , equal time for all

Opinion is king now, screw science, math, data.

That's why there is a 30-50% drop out rate.

Dream and make it so...

and all the other squishy feel good thingies out there.

History, just a bunch of white guys etc.

Nice having you zipping around here on NB, keep it up!

The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO

 

Get a life. I've always

Get a life.

I've always loved that comeback, an internet classic. Good to kick it old school with you!

"Crai more noob!"

Anyone else got any good ones?

Noel, I see Warner's commenrt

Noel, I see Warner's comment as an extremely distasteful, insulting, over-the-top ad hominem against an ex-President he obviously loathes.  How do you see it?

Jer

Jer

Jer,

Heading to dinner. Will answer later. Okay? ns

Noel...okay...enjoy!

Noel...okay...enjoy!

Jer

Jer

Jer,

Can someone be guilty of an ad hominem attack on a dead person?

Dictionary.com defines ad hominem:

1.appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason. 2.attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

Can this be applied to critiques of an historical figure? How can one be guilty of "attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument" if said person is dead? That seems incongruous to me.

That said, I don't agree with Warner's statement concerning FDR, although I would love to see its context. Also, was this is an article or a comment at our message boards? After all, there is a difference, especially as it pertains to this discussion, wouldn't you agree? ns

Noel...Well, a deceased

Noel...Well, a deceased individual cannot be libeled, and I agree that ad hominem is ordinarlily associated with a personal attack on the character of someone still alive.  I'm not sure whether it is a strict definitional requirement, however.

But, the Gipper, bless his soul, is no longer with us either.

Anyway, here is Warner's full commentary re. FDR...it was in the posted comments section of the thread.

Jer

Jer

Jer,

Forgive me, but did I suggest in my original piece that the DKos poster was guilty of an ad hominem attack on Reagan? Please find that for me, for I don't believe it exists.

Quite the contrary, the discussion of ad hominems surfaced at this message board, NOT in my article. Let me remind you of how that occurred.

JasonC mentioned that this DKos piece was no worse than comments NBers make about Carter, Clinton, and Obama.

I responded: "As for what members here call Carter, Clinton, or Obama, have you ever seen vulgar ad hominems about these folks published by one of our writers?"

As such, Reagan, whether living or not, had NOTHING to do with my question concerning ad hominems.

Isn't the Internet great? ns

Noel...I had read the

Noel...I had read the entire thread and was thoroughly familiar with who said what.  I suppose we could spend the rest of the night going around in circles about the defintions of "vulgar" and "ad hominem", the purveyors and the targets of the objectionable characterizations, context, etc., but I doubt we could resolve the issue to everyone's satisfaction. 

I strenuously condemn the Kos diary. [As you should know by now, I have frequently stated I consider Reagan the finest President in my lifetime..]  That said, I think Warner's depiction of FDR was inappropriate and regrettable.

Jer

As CP pointed out, you

As CP pointed out, you asked about "vulgar ad hominems." And Warner does use them, even if they don't involve dropping F-bombs. So, there ya go.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Geez...I can't even receive

Geez...I can't even receive credit from my allies.

Jer

Jer, this was in response

Jer, this was in response to Noel's challenge to me, way above.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Jason...

I know about Noel's challenge.  That's precisely what my response to him addressed.  It's no big deal, and I was just kidding about getting credit...but, click on my highlighted link.  I think I first referred to Noel's actual words.

I demand recognition, dammit!  :>)

Jer

LMAO... Oh look all...a

LMAO...

Oh look all...a duel between Jason and Jer for Noel's attention.

Talk about funny...

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Back to back, start counting

Water pistols at twenty paces. Ready, set, go....

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble... Oh no...now I

Humble...

Oh no...now I am really laughing hard...I just saw this as I posted to Jer...too danged funny.

Are water-pistols now banned...considered dangerous weapons...lead in the water or some-such.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Not for Libs

Can only be considered dangerous in the hands of conservatives, as we know how to use them. Something about the 5th Amendment.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

You l'il squirts are just

You l'il squirts are just having a big time, aren't you?  Okay, play period is over.

Jer

Don't know about "big time"

But we are having a great time, please continue. I promise to just sit back and laugh, I mean watch. Actually, quarter till two EST. Have rug rat watch in the early morning. Maybe I can just velco the kids to the wall for awhile.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

lol

Havent hear that in a long time.

Maryland Vets!!!

If anybody is in the area of Rockville, MD or Leesburg, VA. White's Ferry, south of Poolsville, MD, will be hosting a picnic for wounded vets from Walter Reed. This is in association with Fisher House Foundation. Picnic will be held 17th of May. The local residence will once again line the streets and honor our wounded vet, being escorted by local motorcycle groups. Picnic starts around 10am, thats 1000 hrs for mil folks. Come meet/greet them and find out they are not the illiterate cannon fodder they are made out to be.

Sorry about the shameful plug.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Feel free to plug away.It is a good cause.

Standing ovation, Humble.

Standing ovation, Humble.

Jer

Hp... Glad you posted

Hp...

Glad you posted this...wished I could attend that's for sure.

The Fisher House is something else too, much needed.

I am quite sure you will post this reminder again before then...

Thanks.

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

I'm not vying for Noel's

I'm not vying for Noel's attention, bt...just trying to have some fun with Jason.

Jer

Okay Jer whatever you

Okay Jer whatever you say...I'm just an observer enjoying it all.

I mean that too with a big time smile on my face...please whatever you do take no offense...a gal is laughing here, that's all. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Okay, bt...just so long as

Okay, bt...just so long as you're laughing with me, and not at me. :>)

Jer

   ;-)  "Never murder

   ;-) 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

crickets

crickets

So, acumen....how would you

So, acumen....how would you describe Warner's comments regarding FDR?

Jer

Here it is again

Here it is again. More of that same old "well you guys do it too" argument.

CobraMan...Noel asked for

CobraMan...Noel asked for an example.  I offered one.  You, he, and others may disagree.  But, if you are suggesting I'm excusing the Kos article, you are mistaken.

Jer

I misunderstood

I misunderstood what you meant. For that I apologize.

And you're right about Warner, a lot of his posts are over the top, which is why I usually ignore them.

No problem, CobraMan...but

No problem, CobraMan...but thanks for the apology.

Jer

You're welcome

You're welcome.

No crickets acumen, just

No crickets acumen, just went out for the evening.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Noel:  This piece of

Noel:  This piece of detritus is so vile (h/t NBer lumpy) I won't dishonor the former president, or my readers for that matter, by linking to it;

Jase:  I assumed from your article that there would actually be a picture of what the title suggests. Which there is not. This struck me as little more than over-the-top buffoonery 

  “i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”   

I meant that I assumed the

I meant that I assumed the piece in Kos would have some sort of photoshopped visual representation of Reagan being urinated upon. It did not. And that contentious aspect of it is just one silly throw-away line in a clearly-satirical article.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

NewsBusters is up to the challenge.

The words and deeds of the deviates at the Daily Kos and like Nutroots forums need to be denounced and brought to the attention of the public at large at every opportunity.  Shine the light of day on these cockroaches and they will scurry for cover back under the filth from which they came.

The extermination of this filth has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but everything to do with preserving common decency and civil discourse.  These vermin feel safe in their cells however I doubt they have the courage to face the American public.

 

No Surprise Here...

Leftist incindiaries like the Daily Kos and Media Matters have only one purpose: cause as much disorder and disunity as possible. The gesture that they described is only one way to "get in our heads".

And ultimately one final goal: communist police state.

The time is coming when we get resolved to put them in their place. When do we conservatives finally get angry and become that "sleeping giant just awakened with terrible resolve" as Yamamoto once described us after Pearl Harbor.

I don't mind getting my nose bloodied, as long as we defeat them.

Drill ANWAR

Took a bath with bleach, didn't help

After reading the comments here, I traveled over to the dark side to ready the article in question. OMG, the vile and hate filled antics from this so called author. This is not satire, but hateful writing from a hateful individual. He believes, and is trying convince others, that the social and economic problems of this country can be traced back to the election of Pres. Reagan (may he rest in peace). The only Dem. Pres's he includes is Clinton, to which he basically praised except for comparing his common sense to being lower than a fence post. Should we bring up the well published beach landing of the US Marines in Mogadishu? Or, entry into Bosnia only happened after international condemnation? Or better yet, the last minute pardons and such to help promote his wife for her senate bid? He believes we'll be better off after, from what I can deduce, Obamba is elected POUS. With the Dem's in control of all leadership positions, we will be able to bring this nation back from the brink of destruction. He does realize that todays congress has a less approval rating than Pres. Bush. The Democratic left only panders to whichever special interest group that will further their cause and provide the most money. They do not try to have a open dialog with any that disagree with their ideologies. If JasonC only observed there was no photoshop pic available, may I suggest he look at the bigger picture and ask himself, What does he stand for? What are his beliefs? Most conser's look at issues in a black and white world (right/wrong). But, we at least will discuss issues with people who disagree and hope to come to a mutual understanding.

Sorry for the long rant folks, I'll try to be better about it. 

By the way Noel, are you looking forward to the "Worst" list?

Their hate is deep...

We may be just scratching the surface, my friend.

Drill ANWAR

HP

HP,

Not gonna happen. Neither the ThinkProgress nor the MMA people chose to chastise Beck or O'Reilly for bringing up King. What that tells us is that even they didn't want to come to King's defense. Make sense?

With this in mind, since Olbermann gets all of his suggestions from such folk, I doubt very highly he wants to take this issue on if they're not. ns

Yes, makes sense

Out of sight out of mind mentality. If we (left) don't bring it up we don't have to defend it so, therefore by proxy, it never happened. Nothing to see here, move along.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Liberal tolerance on

Liberal tolerance on parade

The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy

Humble...I had not

Humble...I had not seen these remarks of yours when I replied to another of your posts on this thread.

Just a few points...

--Clinton was the only Democratic president he included because Clinton has been the only Democratic President from 1980-present--the time period the author was reviewing. 

--At best, it was extremely faint praise for Clinton.  Did you notice the very unflattering photo of Clinton, the hillbilly reference, and the hand-wringing over Monicagate?  And this was from a Democrat.

--The Marine beach landing in Somalia was during Bush I administration

Jer

While I don't think the

While I don't think the offense is as egregious as Noel states, it sure doesn't help the writer's cause to use such, um, "vivid" language. We get it. You don't like Reagan.

I think there's a time and a place for all that, but...sheesh, there's WAY too much of it on the left side.  

balboa

So you don't take offense to someone urinating on a picture or such? Or do you just accept it as First Ammendment rights? If so...

How would you feel if it was, say, your mother... or father?

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Changing subjects for a sec balboa

Cannon Fodder:

Cannon fodder infantrymen are the core participants in human wave attacks, where massive waves of poorly armed, poorly trained, and ill equipped soldiers are sent in a charging attack designed to overwhelm defenders with sheer offensive human mass (as opposed to superior strategy, movement, or technology).

These attacks are popular among militaries which possess very large numbers of conscript soldiers, but lack the means or funding to train or arm them to the same standard as their enemy. -Wikipedia-

This reference is to the King response to NB as posted by Ms Mod to state he supports the troops but not the war. I will be back to his site come Wednesday.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

I do think it's offensive

I do think it's offensive for someone to urinate on a picture.  

Then which part

-While I don't think the offense is as egregious as Noel states-

I'm sorry if I don't agree, but the writer is basically stating that all social and economic problems can be laid at the feet of Republican presidents. I do take offense. Jimmy Carter, to this day, proved he was not worthy of the office. Bill Clinton and Hillary used the office for personel enrichment. Do I believe that Republican presidents were total masters while in office? No. All presidents will, and often do, make mistakes. The question should be what caused the mistakes, just an honest mistake or for personal gains.

Nothing like Reagan outlawing communism while the mike was on, that was a classic oops.

 

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

mike was on

IMO Pres.Reagan knew full well that mike was on. No oops about it

Agreed, he knew the mike was on, but....

He was using this comment as a sound check. Please be more detailed in your response. The sound check was not suppose to be broadcasted, only to ensure the mike was working properly.

 

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

sound check

 Heard around the world. Good Check! It shook the walls of the Kremlin and the rest of the world sat up and took notice too. I think it was a great sound check. And the wall came down...    Sorry I took so long to get back to you...the cajun wings were good.

For the liberals that don't remember..

"I've just outlawed communism, bombing will commence in 5 minutes." -Ronald Reagan

Believe I got it right.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Evil Empire

Didn't he mention something about Russia being the evil empire too? My bad..."My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."  Evil Empire was earlier.

Humble..First of all, let

Humble..First of all, let me say that I think your comments on this thread have been very constructive.

I, too, felt the Kos diary was extremely offensive.  However, I would like to point out a couple of slightly mitigating factors.  Albeit lame, it was an attempt at political humor, and, as is often the case, humorous insights can rapidly morph into offensive rants when directed at, and analyzed by, ideological adversaries.  What may seem to be extraordinarily clever utterances by Ann Coulter in the minds of her legions of fans are not always considered particularly funny by the targets of her acerbic and frequently insulting wit. 

Second, the author of the Kos diary was offering his critique of the Presidents of his generation which dated from 1980.  It just so happens that during that 28-year period, there has been only one Democratic President. [So much for the canard that American society is completely gripped by liberalism.]  The author also mocked that one Democrat--Bill Clinton.

Jer

Other than a few cartoons

I don't think it was an attempt at political humor. You do not begin humor stories with the notion that you urinated on Reagan, and now have one ready for Bush. As for good old Ann Coulter, she panders to the ultra left. Suggest reading would be the letter from John Cusack and other extreme Lib's. She is the "shock jock" of the political Internet. As for the diary offering "his critique of the Presidents of his generation," would not the introduction of actual facts been appropriate? Possibly a little fact finding on the actual health of the nation as a whole?

As stated before, the only mocking of Bill Clinton, was to suggest a fence post had more common sense. Shouldn't he also brought up Travelgate, Whitewater, last minute pardons for money/favors, etc.?

Most will agree that American society, as a whole, is not completely gripped by liberalism. But, the line is extremely transparent. Who controls most media (tv, newspapers), who control Hollywood, or Internet political forum sites for just a few. Notably, talk radio is mostly conservative but they keep trying to pass laws with would enable them to control it also.

Conservatives are learning a lesson the hard way and we're just now speaking out. Let us yell from the tops of the mountains if that is what it takes.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

It brings up even a bigger

It brings up even a bigger point. Where do these gutless Internet Thugs hangout? Maybe they can leave there parents basement for a minute and see some sunlight so maybe I could talk to them? But to be honest people like this don't even deserve to be mentioned or acknowledged 

 

 

"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks
and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and
wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for
our attackers"

If slipperyturd hates this country so much...

...then why doesn't he and his fellow-traveling toadies just pack up and go pollute somebody else's country.

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

Where did he say he hates

Where did he say he hates the country?

Oh yeah, nowhere.

Try not to equate America with its elected leaders, who we are perfectly free to criticize and who don't always serve our country in the way it deserves.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Sorry, Jason, but this country was founded

Sorry, Jason, but this country was founded on the principals of individual freedom. Your average Kosie is essentially a socialist, a hideous form of government that has been historically consistent in only two areas:

1) Its utter failure to deliver.

2) The outright murder of 150 million+ human beings in the 20th Century.

Socialism and true freedom are wholly incompatible concepts. As I see it, anyone who embraces socialism to any degree despises freedom, period. As such, they despise this country.

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

This is quite a

This is quite a stretch.

Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva

Jason C, a stretch? Hardly.

Freedom.

There is no "middle ground" in this area, as that would be akin to being only partially pregnant.

It is an all or nothing proposition.

Either you are for it, or you are against it.

Period.

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

In my opinion Newsweek is

In my opinion Newsweek is no better than Moulitsas...haven't been for a very long time.

They have him there for one reason and one reason only...they agree with his thinking...they are all destroying themselves from within.

Personally...I love watching all this, maddening as it is at times, this is all to the benefit of the good guys in the end.

Wait and watch...patience is needed, self-destruction and one big implosion coming down the road eventually. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

Shocking!

expletives deleted!

Good one!

Good one! Haven't heard that since the 70's.

Give me short time small room

I just want 5 minutes with Ted Rall and Kos in a small room, it will not take 5, more like less than 2.  They have none, never did, never will.

 

Had a hard time locating

Had a hard time locating this item over at Daily Kos, but read through most of it.  Anyhow, I’m not really offended or shocked by the vulgarity.  What jumped out at me was the lack of real content for discussion.  Where was the thesis, the humor, the irony?  If Newsweek chooses to showcase this Markos guy’s writings while he sponsors a website that puts out inferior product, well…. someone else can read it.  Somebody needs to tell these “shock jock” writers that they really are not up to the standards of Hunter S. Thompson. 

Moulitsas must be Greek for moron.

As he is up to his eyeballs in them over at Kos.

If you wonder why I constantly rail against government schools, look no further than the DailyKos.

Most of the people on that site do not have the linear logic necessarry to successfully pull off a simple street crossing.

Four-way stop intersections must befuddle them to no end. :-)

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

RD... Crack me up

RD...

Crack me up laughing..that is a good one friend...you do not know how that just tickled my funny bone, especially being at NewsBusted for a day and a half now and then.

You said it all...when those lights turn different colors they don't know what to do..except follow, guess, keep their fingers crossed. 

"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill

bt,

Well, at least with a traffic signal, they don't have to actually think all that much, as the lights, just like the government, will tell them what to do, and when to do it.

However, when they hit a four-way stop with nothing but four stop signs available to guide them, I bet the average Koser is utterly hamstrung, as it is up to the driver to know when it is their turn to proceed.

I would love to see what happens if four Kosers arrived at one at the same time, as I am guessing a fair number of severely bent fenders would be the result.

What the American people are looking for is somebody who can solve their problems. - Barack Obama, April 27, 2008

The thread was getting a

The thread was getting a little convoluted above, but I did read Jer’s link to Warner’s FDR comments.  (Warner really did drop the hammer!) 

It could also be argued that FDR’s repeated refusals to endorse the relaxation of immigration quotas for European Jews suggest that he was a ..."petty, brash, hateful little man whose crippled exterior matched his blackened and bent interior".

maggieqpublic...we could

maggieqpublic...we could easily rummage through history with a jeweler's eye for moral flaws and find plenty to condemn about almost [or perhaps] all of our Presidents.

FDR and JFK could have been more aggressive in ending segregation and pushing for civil rights legislation.  Lincoln expressed views which were palpably racist.  Jefferson owned slaves.  Reagan was slow to acknowledge and confront the Aids epidemic.  Read the transcripts of the bile uttered by Nixon in the Oval office.  The examples are endless.

So tell me, what other Presidents would you describe as "petty, brash, hateful little [men]...with blackened and bent interior(s)"?  Or do you, and Warner, and others here, only reserve such opprobrium for FDR?

Jer

Jer

Jer,

Was Warner's remark re: FDR in one of his articles or in a comment section? If the former, could you provide a link? If the latter, could you link to the article in question?

Also, assuming it's the latter, do you think there's a difference between articles published at a website and comments at a message board? ns

Noel

Buzz Bissinger and Bob Costas apparently don't think so. :-) 

B

B,

Hadn't heard about this. For those that are also unaware: http://deadspin.com/... ns

Bissinger has acknowledged

Bissinger has acknowledged that he didn't acquit himself very well. Sports bloggers v. sports "journalists" is a very contentious battle right now. 

Noel...I responded to those

Noel...I responded to those questions yesterday with the exception of expressing an opinion about whether there's a difference between articles published at a website and comments at a message board. 

My opinion is that there is a difference.

Jer

A quick footnote:  When the blogger and the commenter are one and the same, I think there is still a difference, but considerably less so.

Jer

Jer,

Sorry I missed that link yesterday. That said, I think you're missing something here, namely, that YOU kind of asked Warner his opinion about FDR:

Warner, didn't Newt Gingrich rate FDR as the best president of the 20th century?

He then obliged you with a very lengthy description of his view of the former president which ended with the snippet you've be questioning me and others about. As such, this hardly qualifies as an ad hominem attack for YOU ASKED HIM for his opinion.

Now, granted, you may not like it, and might even find it offensive. But you asked. As such, I don't find this at all analogous to the DKos diary in question. Fair enough?

As for Warner's opinion of FDR, I've got some problems with Franklin, but there nowhere near as deep. My biggest problem with FDR was that he refused to allow any of his Depression legislation to be sunsetted. If all the social programs created in the '30s had to have been reapproved by a different Congress under different economic conditions, our fiscal house would be in much better shape today, and our taxes would be MUCH lower.

JMHO. ns

Noel... With all due

Noel...

With all due respect, I think you are the one missing something.

Noel:  ...You kind of asked Warner his opinion about FDR....He then obliged you with a very lengthy description of his view of the former president which ended with the snippet [in question].  As such, this hardly qualifies as an ad hominem attack for YOU ASKED HIM for his opinion.

Not exactly.  Before I had typed a single word, Warner had already rendered his opinion about FDR in an antecedent post, to wit:  "The worst [President] has to be FDR.  His single handed destruction of both the SCOTUS and the Constitution has to rank right up there as the most destructive president we have ever had...."

I don't agree with everything FDR did, but I was still surprised that WTH ranked him as the "most destructive" and second only to Jimmy Carter as the "worst" president.  Accordingly, I simply asked him if he was aware that Gingrich had called FDR the best president of the 20th century.  That was not a request for an amplification of Warner's "opinion".  Nevertheless, Warner continued with his screed, which in addition to the "snippet", included comments such as the following: 

"...his leadership was based on lies through and through..."

"He manufactured Pearl Harbor...He destroyed the economy, eviscerated the Constitution."

"[FDR's speeches] are filled with hate.  He hates the banks, he hates capitalists, he hates our very system."

"But, Newt and folk his age have beeen brainwashed by a sycophantic professorate who has turned this wife abusing liar into a saint, fooled into imagining that FDR is a great man instead of the greatest destroyer of America that ever strode the halls of our government."

Noel:  Now, granted, you may not like it, and might even find it offensive....

While I agree the analogy to the Kos diary is not perfect, I think it is by now evident that I do indeed find much of what Warner said about FDR--particularly the closing "snippet" regarding FDR's "crippled exterior matching his blackened and bent interior"--to be offensive.  The question is...do you?

Jer

Jer, one question

What would you call a group that panders to another group, then after receiving what they wanted, fails to provide what was promised. Not just once, but over and over?

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Are you talking about Congress or Politicians in general?Didnt mean to jump in on your question for Jer but couldnt resist.

LOL

Haven't lost your sense of direction I see. I'm refering to Democrate Politicians. Who do they pander to and just what do they provide in response. Absolutely nothing. But yet, we, conservatives are the evil society.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Yes you conservatives are.Just kidding.I am amazed at some on the left and their "promises".They are such bald face lies.Even after all these years of them doing it.It trips me out.I have known excons with more integrity.

Yes

At least the excon's will tell you they served their time and want to re-enter society.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Humble

Yup where politician will lie out their ammm .I am a Independent myself but it is sickening when you see these clowns say they will deliever something they know they cant.Look at Hillary.Promised 200000 jobs for the area she represented .They have lost I believe 30000 jobs since she has been elected.Obama says he is a uniter.Well I dont believe it.Must be a typical white person response.

Humble...I certainly don't

Humble...I certainly don't view conservatives as evil, but I understand how you might conclude that liberals in general think so by the rhetoric on liberal/progressive websites...just as I could conclude that conservatives believe liberals are evil from reading many of the comments here and at other conservative sites.

Jer

Jer, not as much evil

As just so much full of bull and self gratification. Most, especially on the extreme, believe they are the saviors of the nation. In their mind they believe their thoughts and ideas are perfect and the end solution would be a nation without bias, hunger, etc... you get the picture. They will not allow discerning idea to survive as it goes against their idealogical thinking. Sorry to bust their bubble, but any nation is a robust changing mass. There will always be a give and take situation which hopefully will lead to a middle of the road approach. We do not belong to Europe, and I do not wish for our laws to mirror their's. We have a constitution and other supporting documents signed by our founding fathers. Lets live by them. Government was always envisioned to be small and was never seen as the answer to every Joe Public's problem.

During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.

Jer, Warner laid out a

Jer, Warner laid out a damning case against the Roosevelt administration.  And it’s a case that needs to be made, because, in my opinion, too many historians have given FDR the kid-glove treatment.  

And I interpreted Warner’s comments re “petty, brash, hateful, et.al.” as his way of summing up that FDR doesn’t belong on a pedestal and that the attribution of great nobility conferred on this man is sadly misplaced.  (Only Werner can tell you what he meant, but this is what I took from his words.)

maggieqpublic...I don't

maggieqpublic...I don't object at all to a case being made against the Roosevelt administration--even a "damning" case.  On the other hand, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but character assassination bothers me, whether it comes from the left or the right.  And I have posted comments condemning such behavior at both HuffPost and Dkos.

If there were a similar attack on Reagan with not only spurious claims that he manufactured the cold war, eviscerated the Constitution, hated democracy and did his best to destroy it, but also falsely branded him a homophobic liar, a wife-abusing adulterer, and cruelly mocked his progressive dementia...this site--including me--would be up in arms with indignation...and rightfully so.

But when the same tactics are employed against FDR, you defend them by blithely noting "it's a case that needs to be made...."

I guess I just don' t get it.

Jer

Bring on the jeweler’s

Bring on the jeweler’s eye with Reagan too.  I’ve always been a little uncomfortable with his pedestal, even though I was proud to have him as my President.  If the allegation is that Reagan manufactured the cold war, first I would say that I don’t accept the premise that the cold war was manufactured… and if I did accept the premise, I would argue that the cold war was manufactured while Reagan was still making movies.  If the allegation is that Reagan was a homophobe or a wife-beater, make the case and debate the case.  And the Alzheimer’s… did the onset of Reagan’s dementia affect the final days, months or years of his administration?  That is a valid question.  Again, make the case and debate the case.  Discussions of this nature do not offend me.  

A favorite of mine is something I’ve heard on more than one occasion.  (I live in a radical left area.)  “Bush is a war criminal.”  My response to that is, “By what definition?”  Generally, the response is a little mumbling and a look of shock that I don’t agree with the statement on its face.  I don’t even know the generally accepted definition of a war criminal, but I do expect anyone who calls the President a war criminal to be able to make the case.