For months, NewsBusters has been warning readers of the likelihood that media will adopt the 1992 Clinton playbook of regularly depicting the economy as being far worse than it really is.
On Sunday, the Democratic National Committee released a new television advertisement attacking GOP presidential candidate John McCain with economic statistics that don't measure up to even the slightest scrutiny.
With this in mind, will press outlets this campaign season investigate the economic claims being made by the candidates and their supporters, or allow inaccuracies present in this ad (embedded video to the right), and likely others in the months to come, to go completely unchallenged?
Consider the following written statement in this ad supposedly answering the question "Are Americans better off than they were 8 years ago?":
Household Income Down $1000
Where did the DNC get that figure from? The ad doesn't say.
Maybe more important, the statistics DON'T come CLOSE to supporting this claim. Let's look first at the most recent Census Bureau data.
According to an August 28, 2007, press release, "Real median household income in the United States climbed between 2005 and 2006, reaching $48,200." In 2000, this number was $42,148.
That's a six-year increase of $6,052.
Of course, we don't have 2007 and 2008 data from the Census Bureau yet, but it seems logical to assume that real median household income hasn't declined by over $7,000 since 2006.
Supporting such an assertion is data from the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis website which places total personal income in 2000 as $8.429 trillion. In 2007, this number was $11.659 trillion, a roughly $3.2 trillion increase.
So, where did the DNC get its figure that household income has declined by $1000 in the past eight years? Who knows?
The same question can be asked of this offering:
1.8 Million Jobs Lost
Really? Based on what? According to the Labor Department, there are currently 137.846 million non-farm employees in the nation. In December 2000, this figure was 132.485 million (both figures seasonally adjusted). This represents a greater than 5.3 million increase.
The much broader Household Survey identified 145.969 million workers as of March 2008. This was only 137.614 in December 2000, representing about an 8.3 million increase.
As such, where did the DNC get this figure that 1.8 million jobs have been lost? And, where did they get this number from:
Gas Prices Up 200%
As with most of these statistics, it's impossible to tell whether the ad is comparing today's data to those exactly eight years ago. For comparison purposes up to this point, I've been relating the most current figures to those available in December 2000.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find gas statistics for that month. Instead, a January 2001 article by National Policy Analysis reported a "2000 summer national average of $1.68 per gallon."
Using that number, a 200 percent increase would mean that today's prices were $5.04. According to AAA's Fuel Gauge Report, the current national average is $3.49. This represents a 107 percent increase NOT 200 percent.
With these inaccuracies in mind, will media address such egregious factual misrepresentations? Or, like 1992, will Democrats be able to report any economic statistic they want with totally impunity from the press?
Stay tuned.
*****Update: Two of our readers have recommended I go to the DNC website to ascertain where the data in this ad came from. Great idea.
Let's start with the household income issue. As it turns out, the DNC did use the Census Bureau information that I reported in my post. However, the DNC website claims that the real median household income in 2000 was $49,192, and in 2006, $48,023. Both figures are WRONG, and I provided links DIRECTLY TO the Census Bureau's press releases associated with these statistics. Instead of doing this, the DNC overstated 2000's number by $7,044, and linked to a Joint Economic Committee Fact Sheet from 8/29/2007.
Sorry. I'll rely on the actual reports from the Census Bureau rather than some Senate committee's analysis, especially one headed by Chuck Schumer.
As for gas prices, this is really hysterical. Here are the figures directly from the DNC website:
Jan 1, 2001: 141.6
Apr 14, 2008 339.7
From this, these geniuses came up with a 200 percent increase? Well, let's do the math. 339.7 minus 141.6 equals 198.1. 198.1 divided by 141.6 equals 139.9. As such, using THEIR numbers, and properly doing the math, the increase is 140 percent NOT 200 percent.
As for their job loss numbers, here's how they came up with their 1.8 million:
January 2001: 6.0 million unemployed
March 2008: 7.8 million unemployed
Sorry, folks, but that doesn't mean we've lost 1.8 million jobs. The number of jobs in America is not measured by the number of people unemployed. It's measured by the number of people EMPLOYED!!!
As such, every economist in America looks at job numbers by those either on non-farm payrolls as measured by the Establishment Survey or those considered employed by the Household Survey.
After all, going back to when we first started measuring these numbers in 1948, there were only 2 million people unemployed compared to March 2008's 7.8 million. Does that mean we've lost 5.8 million jobs in the last 60 years?
Hysterically, that's what the DNC implied in this ad.
With that in mind, I cordially thank those suggesting I look at the DNC website, for it makes the assertions in this ad even more laughable!
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
No Way No Lie
April 20, 2008 - 13:32 ET by JoelCTNoel, there is just no way. The Republicans are the liars, not the Democrats. There is no way the DNC would lie in an advertisement. The facts to back up the claims in the ad are right here... somewhere... let me see, uh here, no, that's not it...
Well, you'll just have to trust them with these numbers until they get the fact sheets. You have to trust them, just like the Obama supporters trust Barack with nothing more than words.
"Just words"
April 20, 2008 - 20:07 ET by Cape Conservative"Just numbers"
Now you want backup, too????
Believe! Believe! The DNC does NOT provide backup! Believe!
One Caveat
April 20, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Intellectual HonestyNoel, while your point-by-point analysis clearly shows your premise to be true the one caveat I would add is to adjust the value of the dollar due to inflation over eight years. So the median family income would make the gains over the last eight years slightly less but would still show real, measurable gains that refute the DNC's claim.
The jump in gas prices, when adjusted for inflation, would actual make the gap decrease and thus add to the level of the DNC's deceptiveness.
Other than that your analysis is spot on.
IH
April 20, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Noel SheppardIH,
The term "real" in the Census Bureau data means inflation adjusted. ns
I Stand Corrected
April 20, 2008 - 14:03 ET by Intellectual HonestyOr rather "sit" corrected.
Thanks.
Gas Prices
April 20, 2008 - 13:46 ET by JoelCTI'm not very good at adding inflation, but I estimate the 2000 Summer Average to equal about $2.30 per gallon in today's dollars. So, it has gone up a buck and change in eight years.
Another thing to note is Bill Clinton couldn't do anything about rising gas prices either in his eight years. I would guess that gas prices rose by a similar amount under his "watch".
Another thing to note is that the Democrats have been in power of all of Congress for 15 months today. They haven't been able to do anything about the prices of gas or oil, either, so should the RNC use this ad to recommend people not vote for any Democrat members of Congress in February?
JoelCT
April 20, 2008 - 14:05 ET by Gary HallActually during Clinton's 8 years, the total rise in gas prices wasn't so significant - but during his last year (the year just before Bush "won the election) it was significant (see my note below).
Heating oil prices were also going thru the roof in the fall and winter of 2000. Hence, Al Gore begged Clinton and got permission to propose (as a part of his presidential bid) to enact a new policy for the US during the fall of 2000 - tap the national strategic oil reserves and sell millions of barrels at a public auction.
And what a joke that turned out to be - the story of the single disabled unemployed young man who lived with his mom in an upstairs apartment somewhere in New Jersey (I believe) submitting a winning bid for a portion of that crude, is a looking glass into the Clinton energy policy of his years in office.
To the best of my memory, none of the crude sold (and much had to be rebid) actually made it the US markets. (;~> gary
EXACTLY!!
April 20, 2008 - 14:18 ET by allahallahoxenfreeThis is a replay of 1992. I wonder what the catch prhase this time around will be. They can't use "It's the Economy Stupid" again can they? It worked for the Arkansas hucksters. Twist and manipulate facts and play on fear. Thats pretty much the DNC agenda. Of course Congress holds no responsibility for economic factors such as energy policy. Is there a far left nut organization with an insanely socialist agenda that the DNC will not kowtow to?
CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS!!!
From this, these geniuses
April 21, 2008 - 10:10 ET by pbanks7From this, these geniuses came up with a 200 percent increase?
Certainly, the same way my wireless company measures minutes - 1 minute and 1 second = 2 minutes. Ya Silly.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
Better off than 8 years ago?
April 20, 2008 - 13:43 ET by forestI am better off financially than I was 8 years ago. Most of my friends and family are too.
Forest
April 20, 2008 - 13:45 ET by Noel SheppardForest,
Ditto. ns
Agreed, NS
April 20, 2008 - 13:49 ET by BlondeAbout the jobs thing, though....of course, it's a lie...of omission. Perhaps there were a total 1.8 million jobs lost, but the lie is in the omission of the net jobs created. How typical, and unsurprising.
Maybe I should modify my tag line to cover this?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
and how much of the jobs
April 20, 2008 - 14:12 ET byand how much of the jobs data is adjusted for the dot-com debacle, how about the S&L, or 911?
There was a false bubble on the data at the end of the Clinton years
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
botg
April 20, 2008 - 14:16 ET by BlondeIt drives me insane that the "great economy" during the late 90s is always attributed to the media wonder-boy, Slick Willie.
I tend to think it was a little thing, tiny actually, called a microchip, and the resultant leaps in worker productivity. But hey, that's just me.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
yes Blondie
April 20, 2008 - 14:20 ET byi can only dream of how much more relaxed (and less productive) my job would be without my cell phone and laptop.
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
Funny you should mention
April 20, 2008 - 14:24 ET by BlazerFunny you should mention that botg, because I tend to "cling" to my cellphone and laptop a helluva' lot more than my bible and gun's.......are they a part of "bitter" too?
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
i for one have not had
April 20, 2008 - 14:29 ET byi for one have not had fantasies of my Bible impacting a brick wall and shattering into 1,523 sparkling bits ...slowly...descending...to the...dirt, there to lie for all of time.
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
LOL, botg! Me either, but
April 20, 2008 - 14:34 ET by BlazerLOL, botg! Me either, but I have had fantasies of that happening via 7.62X39 or 40 S&W,the cell & laptop that is..... now that's "bitter"!
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Quite right, botg
April 20, 2008 - 14:26 ET by BlondeWhich is why I absolutely, positively refuse to get a Blackberry. I'd be pned 24/7. (ha, I finally got to use that silly phrase).
I managed to go without a cell phone until three years ago. And my paperweight (it's a Dell, dude), well, I couldn't live without it.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
well Al did invent the
April 20, 2008 - 14:32 ET bywell Al did invent the internet, so i guess the 1992-2000 administration did cause the economic upswing???
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
Riiiiiiiight
April 20, 2008 - 14:35 ET by BlondeI forgot. How silly of me. Never mind.
P.S. Love that mental image you painted....shattering your paperweight into a billion little bits.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
April 20, 2008 - 14:42 ET bythat would be the leash, the paperweight fantasy would be getting error messages saying "Sorry you are only authorized to use this device to access NewsBusters, PatriotsPlanet, and private e-mail"
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
yeah, me too. but then i
April 20, 2008 - 13:47 ET byyeah, me too. but then i work hard, show up every day, put in the hours, etc. (ie: i am not living on hand-outs)
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”
Noel - gas prices, etc.
April 20, 2008 - 13:57 ET by Gary HallWhew - running past, and can't research in the moment. (;-) Yea, we're going to see a lot of this kind of gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Gas prices - I do remember a few years back noting that retail national gasoline (reg grade) had increased by something in the range of 56% during the 12 months preceding Bush taking his seat in the oval office. I'm sure that had a lot to do with President Bush's war in Iraq beginning in March of 2003.
And on jobs - employment. Any serious conversation (and the Republicans really dropped the rebuttal opportunity here, years ago) on this topic would consider that the huge job growth during the last 4-5 years of the Clinton era was almost entirely because of the Enron -WorldCom led (I tease a bit - but only a bit) dot.com bubble revolution. Certainly nothing (greedy capitalist venture capitalist bubble) that any leftist would want to be in bed with.
When that bubble crashed in March of 2000, not only did it send the federal government and the state budgets reeling towards massive deficits, most all of the recently gained jobs were lost, as well as the income, bonuses, health insurance and 401-K savings that went with those jobs.
Bubble gives - bubble taketh away.
Then on top of that, one and one-half years later, we had that little 9/11 event. The Bush's tax cuts and the Bush's economy began in 2003. Let the chips fall where the chips may fall.
And along the way here, any serious reporter out there discussing these issues, would never discuss this current housing bubble crisis, without comparing it to the dot.com bubble - especially in regards to the pain felt by ordinary working Americans when they get hurt by such reversals of fortune.
gary
Gary, one more tidbit
April 20, 2008 - 20:19 ET by Cape Conservativeof the Clinton "good times" in my estimation was the fact that the LEADER of our country chose to Lie to everyone - not once, but over and over again. Thus, he certainly set a NOT good example for those in the corporate world to emulate! And they rushed right out and became ever so good at deceiving any and all!!!! Lied to stockholders / Lied to employees Lie Lie Lie Hey, if our great Leader can do it, so can I!!! The Clinton supposed "good time years" were all superficial and based on LIES!!!
Sigh...
April 20, 2008 - 14:58 ET by Roger the ShrubberNoel, Noel, Noel... There you go again, muddying things up with your silly facts. You definitely will be one of the first tenants in the re-education camps when they are erected...
Rog, just so everyone here
April 20, 2008 - 15:01 ET by BlazerRog, just so everyone here know's when we get to the Gulag, I got dib's on the top bunk. : )
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Noel, I didn't know the DNC
April 20, 2008 - 15:12 ET by Delsahad to be accurate?
They can say anything tht is challenged. Exactly like their candidates or reps in the House and Senate who's words are never questioned either.
Thank you for putting the lie to their words.
Research 101
April 20, 2008 - 18:24 ET by Agrarian-DecentralistI haven't taken the time to independently analyze how accurate---or otherwise---the statistics are, but I would hope that if journalists did choose to analyze those statistics, they would have the good sense to go to the DNC website, which helpfully cites---and links to---the supposed sources of the information.
See:
http://www.democrats...
By the way, it's the DEMOCRATIC National Committee.
AD
April 20, 2008 - 18:36 ET by Noel SheppardAD,
Yep, and if they did that, they'd find that the numbers the DNC reported are wrong. Thank you for playing my game! :-) ns
“So, where did the DNC
April 20, 2008 - 18:24 ET by JustaPatriot“So, where did the DNC get its figure that household income has declined by $1000 in the past eight years? Who knows?”
I Know Noel, sometimes the hard questions can be answered sooo easily. Click over to this website where you should find all their supportive documents you’ll need.
How can you use the "Real median household income” as a counter to the ad’s “Household income down $1000”. By using the real median income figure couldn’t 90 percent of the U.S. households be down, but if the other 10% made sufficiently more money, it would raise the median figure up. Using the total personal income by the Commerce Department again doesn’t seem to fit here, you can insert the 90-10 percentiles again. Being an economist perhaps you could elaborate on using this data to rebut that portion of the ad. After seeing their corroborating evidence come back with a meaty article to rebut their documents. Now that would be an article worthy of Newsbusters, exposing accurately the misrepresentation of this ad from the left
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
You are confusing 'mean'
April 20, 2008 - 18:44 ET by NL207You are confusing 'mean' with 'median'.
Mean is defined as the sum of the elements divided by their number.
Median is the value which has an equal numbers of elements greater or less than it to within one.
Another useful term: 'mode'.
Mode is the value that occurs most frequently in the data set.
I thought I was missing
April 20, 2008 - 19:08 ET by JustaPatriotI thought I was missing something in that equation, thank you NL207
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
JAP
April 20, 2008 - 19:08 ET by Noel SheppardJAP,
Yes, but if you look at my update, you'll get all of your answers -- just not the ones that I imagine will fit your dogma. :-) But, thank you for playing my game. :-) ns
NS
April 20, 2008 - 19:34 ET by JustaPatriotHaving said they are wrong, could you link where you found the right :) information that rebuts their figures.
I've re-read the sources, they look authoritative to me, but we have seen how documents of support turn out to not so supportive
Thanks
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
JAP
April 20, 2008 - 19:34 ET by Noel SheppardJAP,
As I stated, links to the 2000 and 2006 Census data are in my original article. Scroll up, you'll find them. ns
NS
April 20, 2008 - 20:26 ET by BlondeJustaP is the reason why I changed my original SN here....thought you would appreciate that little fact.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
NS, you sourced the Census
April 20, 2008 - 20:42 ET by JustaPatriotNS, you sourced the Census Bureau report from 2001 which does state the 2000 median household income at $42,148. When comparing the 2006 figure shouldn’t the 2000 figure be in 2006 dollars.? Does anyone know the inflation rate for that period
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
JAP
April 20, 2008 - 20:50 ET by Noel SheppardJAP,
As I mentioned to someone here earlier, the word "real" means it's adjusted for inflation.
Forgive me, JAP, you're fishing here. The bottom line is that the DNC overstated 2000's number by $7,044. I've provided the links directly to the agency responsible for collecting and reporting this data. I'm sorry these numbers go counter to your dogma. I really am. ns
You forgot.....
April 20, 2008 - 20:53 ET by Blonde"Thank you for playing".
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
April 20, 2008 - 20:57 ET by Noel SheppardB,
I know. However, I really HATE having to go over things that I've already addressed. It gets tiresome.
Moreover, do you think now that I've taken the time to answer both of these posters, either of them will come back and say, "Thank you. You're right. The DNC misrepresented the data in this ad."
I highly doubt it. ns
NS,
April 20, 2008 - 21:07 ET by BlondeI'd like to show you a different way of looking at it, if I may.
Of course it gets tiresome and tediously irksome...but just think of yourself as NB's Economic Superman....Truth, Justice, and the Facts.
You're saving Gotham City, NS.
One economic illiterate at a time.
It's all good.
Rush, et. al., await.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
J
April 20, 2008 - 21:17 ET by Noel SheppardJ,
Understood. But, rather than looking at the DNC site and challenging my position, what both these posters did was steer me to the site for me to support my own work.
If I was in their shoes, I would have gone to the site myself, seen if there were flaws in the original article, and then posted my concerns to the writer. If there weren't, I would have kept my mouth shut.
As there turns out not to be a smoking gun here, and, in fact, more obvious errors in the DNC's ad, this has largely been a poor use of my time. :-( ns
Natch, N.
April 20, 2008 - 21:25 ET by BlondeThat is because the first reaction of the "other side" is to attack and challenge (your own work). Not to read and comprehend.
No wonder you're annoyed, and disgusted.
I read what you write, and accept it as true, because I know that you research what you have to post here, before you put it up.
So, you should as well...ignore the stupidty, I mean. Your time is better spent doing other things...eating kitten-sized shrimp(s), drinking fine CA wine, taking your daughter to the mall. Like that.
You really do have the patience of Job, with these "deniers". They deny anything they read here, because they are too lazy to do their own research. My best advice, Noel...ignore them. They do it on purpose, and as you said...it's a perfect waste of your very, very valuable time.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
April 20, 2008 - 21:30 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Well, at least JAP is playing. AD is a hit-and-run specialist who needles writers here, but never responds to their replies.
In the end, the reason I responded was because what I found at the DNC was so hysterical. These Dems can't even do simple arithmetic!
But, of course, we already knew that!!! :-) ns
Arithmetically challenged.
April 20, 2008 - 21:37 ET by BlondeBut we knew that.
Too bad the MsM doesn't find it as amusing as we do. That would be refreshing.
On that note, I shall bid you good evening, Noel.
And in the immortal words of the Allman Bros...."I, ain't wastin' time no more"...... (with liberal fools).
<edit> Oi (portugese word I learned)....he's doing it again. Final thing...is "irrespective" the same as "irregardless"? Just wondering.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
B
April 20, 2008 - 21:40 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Well, to quote George Castanza, I'm out! ns
Noel, Noel, Noel... Your
April 20, 2008 - 21:09 ET by Roger the ShrubberNoel, Noel, Noel...
Your so-called "facts" are all fine and good, but the DNC website has really cool boxes drawn around THEIR numbers...
Shrubster,
April 20, 2008 - 21:15 ET by BlondeThat does nothing to alleviate Noel's aggravation.
Not one bloody thing!
Really, man. Have some sympathy.
How would you like to have to put up with a legion of epically economic illiterates here, on a day-to-day basis?
I can't think of a more gruesome task. After all, these economically challenged fools can only fathom the borders of things (like the Time rag cover).....
Serially, be nice!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
You may call it fishing,
April 20, 2008 - 21:16 ET by JustaPatriotYou may call it fishing, but I’m just trying to get accurate information to make an informed choice in the next election. Numbers are numbers; it’s in the presentation that the misinformation occurs. As you are pointing out about this ad.
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
JAP
April 20, 2008 - 21:26 ET by Noel SheppardJAP,
Is it my job to get you information to help you choose a candidate? After all, in this instance, you had all the information at your fingertips, didn't you? Why did you need me? ns
It certainly isn't your job
April 20, 2008 - 21:42 ET by JustaPatriotIt certainly isn't your job to get information for me, but If questions arise about the information your reporting, I would hope you would help explain them.
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
Irrespective of the DNC
April 20, 2008 - 21:35 ET by JustaPatriotIrrespective of the DNC dollars they have on their site, your saying this Joint Economic Committe report is incorrect?
http://jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Reports.Reports&ContentRecord_id=C6EC2B41-7E9C-9AF9-7250-C946957D3ADD
JAP - -one of Eight Americans is Below the Poverty line ?
April 20, 2008 - 22:16 ET by JayTeeC'mon, You and Congress have to show how numbers are derived, how they are calculated, and the baseline for the Calculations...Per your link stating that ....1 in 8 are below the poverty line.... requires some background explanation...however brief...
This isn't MSM .... this is the Web.....with "Busters" in the Title...Bring it, or take it to the DNC website and talk in Generalities.
Smokey and the Bandit - - Jackie Gleason "Please, one Idiot at a TIME ! "
I know, picky picky
April 20, 2008 - 22:55 ET by Cape Conservativebut can you please use the proper contraction for you are which is you're...thanks, JaP
lol Noel.
April 20, 2008 - 21:40 ET by shawn228thx goodness. I looked at the subject line and thought it was a racial slur. I wonder if if it was just me.
Jewish-American Princess is
April 21, 2008 - 10:13 ET by Roger the ShrubberJewish-American Princess is a slur?
Oh, Come on!
April 21, 2008 - 10:33 ET by pbanks7Didn't the census data released just last year debunk all that poor getting poorer/rich getting richer BS? Silly me -- that's OLD news.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
Oh, Come on!
April 21, 2008 - 10:34 ET by pbanks7Didn't the census data released just last year debunk all that poor getting poorer/rich getting richer BS? Silly me -- that's OLD news.
MSM - shaping all the perceptions you need to believe.
Noel: I generally defer
April 20, 2008 - 22:54 ET by JerNoel: I generally defer to your superior economic expertise--and you may be totally correct in this case--but I am having some difficulty correlating your cited figures with the income data and trends set forth in the following article "based on information collected in the 2007 and earlier Annual Social and Economic Supplements (ASEC) to the Current Population Survey (CPS) conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau."
Note in particular the graph appearing on p. 4 of the report.
Jer
Jer
April 20, 2008 - 23:10 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Yep. I've seen that chart. However, look above it on the same page (emphasis added):
That's what I referenced for 2006, correct? Now, go back and check the link I provided for 2000, and see what it is? And, tell me whether it is higher than the $48,201, or lower.
Then, check to see whether it's what the DNC reported for the year 2000, or $7,044 less. The facts are all there, with links right to the Census Bureau's press releases. I'm not sure why you feel the need to complicate this, other than it really makes the DNC look like a bunch of liars, and you can't stand it.
Oh, and while we're at it, I notice nobody seems to want to talk about their abysmal math in calculating what gas prices have done, or their absurd presentation concerning job growth. Why is that? ns
Noel...
April 20, 2008 - 23:41 ET by JerI'm not sure why you feel the need to complicate this, other than it really makes the DNC look like a bunch of liars, and you can't stand it.
That comment is untrue, unfair, and disappointing. I could care less who looks like what. I'm interested in facts and accurate, verifiable information regardless of whose credibility may suffer as a consequence.
Mine was an honest inquiry, and framed in a respectful, unprovocative manner. I'll look elsewhere for an explanation.
Jer
Jer
April 20, 2008 - 23:52 ET by Noel SheppardJer,
Forgive me, but I've been explaining this for hours! Included a full update. It's ALL there, Jer, including links to the press releases. All the verifiable facts.
Honestly, what else do you want? ns
† Noel
April 21, 2008 - 00:13 ET by Cool ArrowCan you type it real slow so even I can understand?
♣ a seal
CA
April 21, 2008 - 00:22 ET by Noel SheppardCA,
Well, if I'm coming across a bit snide, it's because I'm feeling a bit put out.
This isn't rocket science. The CB reported income for 2000, and income for 2006. The income in 2006 is higher. Period. And, the DNC MISREPORTED what the 2000 income was so that it could declare 2006 income was lower. PERIOD. This doesn't require any graphs, or any further elaboration.
IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
Yet, I'm still having to explain it. Sheesh! ns
→ It's OK Noel
April 21, 2008 - 00:27 ET by Cool ArrowIt's not really that hard to follow.
♣ a seal
Cool...I don't want to
April 21, 2008 - 01:05 ET by JerCool...I don't want to further impose on Noel or incur another lecture on my apparent ignorance; and, since you have easily grasped the economic data in question, would you kindly explain why the CB line graph I refer to at no time reflects Real Median Household Income falling below $45,000 from the mid-90's forward.
Thanks...
Jer
→ You're right Jer
April 21, 2008 - 01:16 ET by Cool ArrowI went to the Census site and sure enough, it appears the bureau has data for years in which it took no census. Namely 2001 - 2006.
Now I'm really confused as to where they got their numbers.
♣ a seal
Thanks, Cool...at least I'm
April 21, 2008 - 01:19 ET by JerThanks, Cool...at least I'm not the only one confused.
Jer
McCain should flip the script, just like the "3am" reply ad.
April 21, 2008 - 00:05 ET by Matthew StierInstead of "the past 8 years", McCain should reply with an ad cover the the change in the economy since the Democrats took over congress.
For anyone who is
April 21, 2008 - 21:19 ET by JustaPatriotFor anyone who is interested, the numbers used on the DNC website for median household income might come from the U.S Census Bureau Historical Income Tables-Households . The dollars are within $100 of the table figures. Go figure, one agency can come up with different numbers for the same category. Now if a mathematician could explain this to me :)
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
"might"????
April 21, 2008 - 21:21 ET by BlondePretty weak.
You'll have to do better than that to embarass Noel.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
I said “might” Blonde
April 21, 2008 - 22:00 ET by JustaPatriotI said “might” Blonde because I don’t have communication with whoever put up those numbers on the DNC site to know specifically where they got them. You wouldn’t happen to be a mathematician would you????
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
If anyone is still
April 21, 2008 - 23:43 ET by JustaPatriotIf anyone is still interested, the DNC source for the gasoline prices shows those numbers as cents per gallon. It’s 3 or 4 layers into the website a file called Data 1. They apparently use the column headed MG-TCO-US. To get the percent increase don’t we divide the 339.7 into 141.6 to get 2.399? Change it to percent, it comes out to 239.9%. Check me if this is not a test, take 141.6 x 239.9% = 339.69 pennies. If this is right, this method does show more of an increase, albeit quite contorted way to get to it.
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
NS If your still check
April 21, 2008 - 21:42 ET by JustaPatriotNS If your still check on this article just wanted to thank you for taking probably more time than with most members in talking me through your data.. Sometimes I see something and it just doesn’t seem right, so I keep looking at it from different angles and eventually it settles my mind. You are right there are so many other sections to this ad that need to be fact checked
Those who fail to learn from History, are destined to repeat it.......
JaP
April 21, 2008 - 21:48 ET byNoel is really good at following through on his posts
“i am the quixotic botg and i approved this message”