On Sunday's "Meet the Press," Newsweek editor Jon Meacham hinted that if the Clintons were to execute a "corrupt bargain" which gave Hillary the nomination, it could lead to a split in the Democrat Party akin to what happened in 1824.
In that election, only one Party, the Democratic-Republicans, ran presidential candidates. Although Andrew Jackson won the most popular and electoral votes, he didn't receive a majority of either resulting in the House of Representatives controversially giving the nod to John Quincy Adams.
This skirmish led to a division in the Democratic-Republican Party such that four years later, Jackson ran and won the presidency as a member of the newly created Democratic Party defeating Adams who represented the newly created National Republican Party.
With this in mind, here's what Meacham said Sunday:
Well, my sense of--at every point in this race, Senator Clinton has benefited from a kind of, if not a majority, a silent big plurality of largely female voters who have stepped in at different points and said, "No, not yet with Senator Obama, and we're going to register our belief in her, and her capacity to deal with issues that we believe in strongly." And I think Chuck's exactly right. I mean, what, what some Clinton people have said to me is they have to win someplace they weren't expected to win, and then they could begin to make that argument. I think, depending on where you end up with the, as you were saying, the popular vote, or the pledged delegates, you do have the capacity for a kind of corrupt bargain charge, echoes of 1824, which I think we should always be talking about every Easter. I apologize for that. But that was when...Oh, very quickly, Andrew Jackson won the popular vote, Henry Clay threw his support to John Quincy Adams. Adams becomes president. Four years later, running on a, running on a campaign saying, "That was a corrupt bargain," Jackson takes over, founds the modern Democratic Party, and here we sit.
Carrying Meacham's suggestion forward, if Obama has the most popular votes and elected delegates heading to Denver, but the Clintons wangle a deal that gets her the nomination, Obama and his supporters furiously branch off to form another Party.
This is an interesting concept that I explored after the 2004 elections, although precipitated by different events:
Unfortunately, this legislative battle is coming at the worst possible time for the Democrats, who have been having a serious internal struggle for the past ten years between their left-leaning members who are still clinging to New Deal ideologies, and the more moderate wing founded by former President Clinton and the Democratic Leadership Council.
What this sets up is a situation where history might repeat itself in a fashion that is not a good omen for the Democrats, for the last time they had such a power struggle — the 1824 elections — it began a division of the Democratic-Republicans into the two parties we have today. By 1860, this separation culminated in the rise of the Republican Party under Abraham Lincoln, leading to decades of Republican political dominance.
How does this historical schism foreshadow what is happening today? Well, the Democratic Party since losing the Congress in 1994 has been struggling with its identity almost like Norman Bates. Are we liberals? Are we moderates? Are we hawks? Are we doves? Do we like taxes? Do we hate taxes? Do we take showers? Do we take baths? Mother? Mother?
Of course, as the psychiatrist tells us at the conclusion of Psycho, such a condition always ends in a battle between the two personalities. And, with the election of Howard Dean as the party’s National Committee Chairman, it should be infinitely clear that, for the time being, the New Deal Democratic wing of the party prevailed.
Though this might appear foolhardy given the rightward shift of the nation for the past 24 years, it must be understood that the Democratic Party is in more than just a fight to win back the Congress and the White House. Much like 1824, it is in a battle for its very survival. And, this time, the center of the storm is likely its crowning achievement.
Three and a half years later, this struggle in the Party ends up not being caused by a battle over Social Security, but, instead, over the presidential nominee.
Given the passions on both sides, and the huge turnout at the polls this primary season, is the Meacham scenario possible, or just something interesting to talk about?
On the flipside, as we get closer and closer to August 25 without the nomination having been resolved, is this a possibility that press members will address more often, or will they try to keep such a doomsday scenario under wraps?
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.




















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I think it's interesting to
March 23, 2008 - 18:56 ET by motherbeltI think it's interesting to talk about. In recent history it has been the habit of Democrats to bite the bullet and support the candidate. But in my lifetime, I haven't seen this big a battle before.
I don't know how likely it is to come to pass, but if it does, it will almost certainly be along racial lines; except for possibly the under-25 vote.
I think you're right, MB
March 23, 2008 - 19:17 ET by ThisnThatIt's either racial lines, or victim-hood lines. It might even end up as these two parties: The Democratic Victims of Everything Imaginable, and the Entitlement Pay-Me-Now Because You're Guilty parties. Hillary belongs to the first; Obama and his pastor are members of the second.
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I'm thinking White Democrats
March 23, 2008 - 20:36 ET by motherbeltI'm thinking White Democrats and Democrats of Color (if Hispanics peel off with the blacks.)
I think you are spot on.
March 23, 2008 - 18:51 ET by Gary P JacksonI think you are spot on. That's why people like Bill Richardson have aligned with Obama, and why he was on Fox News Sunday adamantly saying the delegates need to quickly come together behind one candidate.
And of course, the case will be made, especially after Obama's preacher problems, that Clinton has won all of the big states, and since she is favored to win Pennsylvania handily has momentum on her side.
The democrats have no one but themselves to blame for this problem though. The way they portion off the delegates, and the high number it takes to have an outright victory, has created a perfect storm, as it were. The fact is, neither Obama or Clinton will have the number of delegates it takes to be declared the winner, when the primary process is over. Enter the super delegates. No matter who they pick as the eventual nominee, the loser's supporters will cry foul. To steal your word, it's quite delicious!
Now granted, when all is said and done, most will still vote the party line, no mater who is selected, not elected. (even more delicious) But I agree that enough will either sit home, or vote for McCain, that the democrats will be damaged, and be splintered for a long time.
The funny thing, Gary, is
March 23, 2008 - 18:59 ET by motherbeltThe funny thing, Gary, is that the Dems could end up hoist on their own petard.
They created the Superdelegates for the express purpose of overruling the popular votes...now you have Pelosi declaring that they should NOT do that....and the solution they created may be their biggest problem this time!
Yes, it definitely is delicious!
Whether this damages the Dem
March 23, 2008 - 19:45 ET by dscottWhether this damages the Dem party in it's current form or not, the personality contest between Clinton and Obama exposes the internal workings of the Dem party decision making process. Now we all can see the true factions with the party, the Salesmen and the Socialists. Guess who is the Salesperson (hint, hint) and who is the Socialist? Choices, choices, who will Dems vote for? The one who will promise everything and deliver half of nothing or the one who will offer the hope of everything for nothing????
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Yeah, that's why this gonna
March 24, 2008 - 03:37 ET by Gary P JacksonYeah, that's why this gonna be fun to watch! No matter who gets the nomination, they will be damaged goods. And I'm gonna sit backand enjoy it.
As If Pelosi Has Any Say
March 24, 2008 - 07:25 ET by PamShe gets no say in what the Sd's do.. If there reason for being was to go along with the popular vote, there would be no need for them..That being said..Didn't Bush steal the election in 2000? For the past 7 years, we found out that he stole the election because of Florida..we found out that every vote was supposed to count, but he took that away from Florida voters. Today, in 2008, we have Howard Dean that allowed NH to break the very same rules that he punished FL and MI for..He selectively punished the rule breakers..isn't Obama really just stealing the nomination by not fighting for 2 states the right to be a part of the nomination process?
The Two and their
March 23, 2008 - 22:25 ET by ahusserThe Two and their minions will probably fight over that last stash of hanging chads, with the convention (and nomination) sent into OT and the Supreme Court as refs. One side will be carping and whining about "the stolen nomination". Could be delicious irony. And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
Democrats: Simple and Easy.
March 23, 2008 - 19:22 ET by allanfGiven the millions of votes she has received, I fail to see why it is Mrs. Clinton's "duty" to conceed the nomination to Obama. She also has an obligation to see to it that the 1.7 million Democrats who voted in Florida a represented at the conventions.
Democrats are big on homolies such as "rules" (or even "rule of law" when they find a judge they like). Well superdelegates voting is within the rules. Those rules made it impossible for either candidate to clinch the nomination.
So the Democrats invoke another non rule clincher. Hurt feelings or disorder. To prevent hurt feelings, Mrs. Clinton is supposed to surrender.
Just as in everything the Democrats do, they want a simple and easy solution. Hence Democrat and Obama supporter Meacham's dictum.
Gee whiz Democrats. Sometimes simple solutions aren't there.
As the great mentor of the
March 23, 2008 - 20:03 ET by dscottAs the great mentor of the left wing of the Democrat Party says: It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. Bahahaha, I love the irony, don't you?
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Democrats are big on
March 23, 2008 - 20:41 ET by motherbeltDemocrats are big on homolies such as "rules" (or even "rule of law" when they find a judge they like) -allanf
However, as Rush said recently: there are no "rules" in the Democrat party; just "customs" and "traditions."
No Rules
March 24, 2008 - 06:40 ET by allanfWell the Democrats do have a process for resolving the dispute between Clinton and Obama. It is called the Democratic National Convention.
Apparently, men like Meacham just want the convention to me as much of a show as the Soviet Parliment. It should all be decided before hand.
Why are they afraid of resolving differences at the convention?
Because, as with the Republicans
March 24, 2008 - 06:58 ET by sarcasmoThere's a danger of occasional unscripted moments at a real political convention (just try watching the Libertarian convention on C-Span if you doubt it, hell, I once amended their platform from the floor!) and those moments tend to interfere with the planned TV show.
I'm obviously not a big fan of either major party, but from the looks of things the Democrat convention is likely to make for MUCH more interesting TV to me than the Republican convention. That interest due to conflict might be worth a little "political damage" to whichever candidate emerges from the process. I don't think highly compensated political "experts" are taking the possibility of interesting TV into account -- in part because they're "experts" and the unscripted moments don't make well-paid "experts" seem all that important anymore.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Avoid Conflict
March 24, 2008 - 07:36 ET by allanfSarc, you may be right. The convention could get nasty. The Democrats have a problem on their hands. But that is how the process works.
Hillary Clinton won Florida by 300,000 votes. If Forida is included in the the vote totals, Obama's 700,000 popular vote lead is cut dramatically. If Florida and Michigan are included in the totals, Obama's popular vote lead is just 87,000 votes.
After the upcoming primaries, Hillary will probably have the popular vote lead when Florida and Michigan are included and perhaps with just Florida included. Florida was a substantial primary with 1.7 million Democrat voters participating.
Hillary will be able to make an impressive case to the delegates that she deserves the nomination.
Why on earth would she conceed?
Let's assume Obama loses & forms a new party
March 23, 2008 - 19:50 ET by sarcasmoLet's further assume he's going to select Bloomburg as VP, giving the hypothetical Newparty at least $200 million to spend right away. Also assume a totally-fawning news media that falls in love with Newparty. IMO they could NOT get on the ballot in all 50 states, even under those conditions.
Not gonna happen, even if speculating about it is fun for writer types. People here need to personally experience ballot restriction laws (or be a lawyer familiar with election law, like Obama or Clinton) to fully understand just how-hopeless it is to even try these days...
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
huh sarc?
March 23, 2008 - 19:53 ET by candanceThere were an awful lot of assumptions in that post....
Yep, but even with every one
March 23, 2008 - 19:58 ET by sarcasmoThe conclusion wasn't an assumption, it was a prediction I'd be willing to put money on. "Ain't gonna happen."
This speculation reminds me of when some group like feminists or the anti-abortion folks tries to talk with me about forming a 3rd party. I have a bit of experience in this area, so I tend to toss cold water on a fantasy pretty quickly. I'm trying to think of an assumption I could add (another billionaire, this time willing to ignore McCain-Feingold since the hypothetical VP slot's already filled?) that would get an Obama-Bloomburg ticket on the ballot in all 50 states, and I can't think of one.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
I agree with sarc - there will be no split
March 23, 2008 - 20:34 ET by Dee BunkIt's not practical especially since the Dem party has already taken a hard left turn and the minions don't even know it. They still think Obama is some kind of moderate. Even if Hillary were to gain control, she's still way left of her hubby. She's not as far left as Obama but the far leftists will still support her.
The only real reason to start a new party would be if Obama won and the true moderates realized how far left their party has gone (but they won't). So called moderates are just the media brainwashed and they are too wishy washy to ever start a new party especially when the media tells them they have a moderate.
Liberal?? No liberals here!
March 23, 2008 - 20:44 ET by motherbeltLiberal?? No liberals here! The whole party is so damn moderate they are just downright boring!
MB - exactly - everyone is either far right or moderate
March 23, 2008 - 23:26 ET by Dee BunkMB - exactly - everyone is either far right or moderate. McCain is the new far right to the media.
Dee...do you really think
March 23, 2008 - 23:55 ET by JerDee...do you really think there is a single instance where the MSM has referred to McCain as "far right"?
Jer
Good point.
March 24, 2008 - 03:41 ET by sarcasmoHad it ever happened, it's likely we'd have seen it right here, if only to be amazed & make fun.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
I think Dee meant that he
March 24, 2008 - 05:16 ET by motherbeltI think Dee meant that he will be.
Obama (or Clinton) will be cast as a "centrist"...she already is, and he soon will be. McCain will suddenly become, OK, not "far right" maybe, but the "conservative" that he has never been. My bet there will be repeated references to his "reaching out the base" (read: far right), with zero references to the Democrat candidate of having to placate the Kos and MoveOn crowd. In fact, since they already agree with the Obama on a lot of issues, they will suddenly be cast as more moderate by the media.
Case in point: how much have you heard about his flip-flopping on pulling the troops out of Iraq, and how it's going to affect his relationship with the "far left" of the Democratic party?
I've heard of the flip-flopping
March 24, 2008 - 05:22 ET by sarcasmoAnd I doubt the media will ever call any group like ACORN "far left" absent substantial prodding, but Jer's point is a good one. I'll be interested, and amused, to see the first time anyone in the MSM directly calls McCain himself "far right," and this thread might make a lot of eyes look for it. This may be good news for future humor, if not accuracy, in the media world.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
sarc, you've heard about it
March 24, 2008 - 05:46 ET by motherbeltsarc, you've heard about it because, (I get the impression that) you read a LOT of different news sources. But be honest: has that been a part of the narrative for Obama in the most common news sources? Has it been on the evening news anywhere that you know of? If McCain had been going back and forth, don't you think it would be in every bit of campaign coverage?
Normally someone's "60 Minutes" interview is dissected in great detail and makes headlines for days, if not weeks. But when Obama said that to Steve Kroft, he MSM pretty much ignored that interview. I read a fair amount, and I only stumbled across it in one other place, and that was a Townhall column.
Rethinking, I disagree with Dee's contention that he will be called "far-right" (only because they've spent so much time touting him as a "maverick," and a "reacher-across the aisle," but they will definitely play up his "playing to the conservative base" in a way that they will NOT do for either Obama or HRC with the far left.
Lots of folks have mixed feelings
March 24, 2008 - 05:55 ET by sarcasmoCall it flip flopping or whatever you like. I just read an article by a guy who initially supported the Iraq war and then changed his mind. It's hard for TV to cover a changed mind in a short time, when it comes to war.
It's similarly-hard for them to cover campaign finance, where McCain's flip flops have been literally suntanned into his feet just like my "real" flipflops are on my own real feet. If I were in charge of the media, there'd be a lot more heat for such changes, but just as you see Obama getting a pass on the war, many others (including Media Matters, and they're right in this instance!) see McCain getting a pass on campaign finance "reform."
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Well it's probably
March 24, 2008 - 06:03 ET by motherbeltWell it's probably impossible in general, but they certainly should, if a candidate is running on that theme!
And after reading the Reason article you linked, it's apparent that they are dropping the ball on both issues.
I've been trying to find the column I read it in, but so far no luck: someone pointed out that these days, voters decide not so much on issues, but on personalities and on the "narrative" surrounding the candidates. It seems the MSM is only too willing to maintain that.
mb...it would seem the
March 24, 2008 - 06:36 ET by Jermb...it would seem the "narrative" hasn't been so bad for the GOP--only two Dems have been President in the past forty years.
Jer
The point is not whether
March 24, 2008 - 07:49 ET by motherbeltThe point is not whether the "narrative" is more advantageous to one side than the other. The point I was making is that it's easier for the MSM to operate that way. Saves all that time and effort that would have to be spent on researching, verifying stuff, etc.
It's "lazy journalism."
sarc, I want to make one
March 24, 2008 - 07:06 ET by motherbeltsarc, I want to make one more point regarding your "flip-flopping" comment, which I neglected before.
There is a HUGE difference between having mixed feelings and flip-flopping.
Obama has had three separate positions on Iraq withdrawal. IMO these changes have been made in order to try to play both sides against the middle.
In 2004 he said it was our responsibility to stay there. When he started his campaign, he was all for quick withdrawal. Now when he gets challenged, he says well of course as CinC I have to re-assess the situation.
That is what I meant MB - If they can label GWB as far right
March 24, 2008 - 08:08 ET by Dee Bunkthey can do it to anyone.
mb...One of the areas where
March 24, 2008 - 07:00 ET by Jermb...One of the areas where Republicans have been remarkably successful over the past few decades is in transforming the "L-word" into a pejorative. That is why many Democrats--especially Democratic candidates--regrettably, but understandably, refuse to label themselves as such.
It also puzzles me why those on the Right are bothered by the MSM describing a candidate as "conservative". A much greater portion of the electorate self-identifies as conservative rather than liberal.
Jer
It's not just changed into a perjorative
March 24, 2008 - 07:08 ET by sarcasmoThat would be bad enough. The "classical" free-market part has also been silently NewSpeaked-away in a slow erosion of the meaning of a once-proud word with the same roots as the word "liberty." Thus my initial objections to the very slogan of this site, since the word "liberal" has little or no real-world meaning anymore in this country, as amply-proved by the fact that in other nations a political party with "liberal" in the label often advocates fiscal conservatism.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Newsbusters slogan should be "combating elitist media bias"
March 24, 2008 - 08:29 ET by Dee BunkDems aren't liberal. I don't know how or why they came to be called liberals. I think it's mostly because of the whole 60's free love thing.
I wish people would come up with a new term for them. I think elitists is the best descriptive of who they are now. As far as a party label, they should be called Socialists and Republicans should be called Democratic Republicans again.
I'd LOVE to see that change
March 24, 2008 - 08:34 ET by sarcasmoBut I don't think I'm putting any money on it...
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
I disagree.
March 24, 2008 - 07:43 ET by motherbeltI disagree.
The MSM and Liberals have turned the term "conservative" into a pejorative; stereotyping it as favoring the rich, uncaring about the downtrodden, and homophobic.
Nonetheless, most conservatives gladly label themselves as such. No conservative
that I'm aware of says "Don't call me conservative." Can you name some
who do?
The MSM and "liberals"
March 24, 2008 - 07:48 ET by sarcasmoWeren't the ones who started with the whole "compassionate" BS, which essentially bought into & confirmed that nasty stereotype, and doing so didn't seem to cost the guy who did it any votes.
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
GW Bush coined the term
March 24, 2008 - 07:53 ET by motherbeltGW Bush coined the term "compassionate conservative" because over time conservatism had been tarred as cold and uncaring toward the less fortunate; only caring about their "rich friends."
Frankly I think it was a dumb move. He gave the impression that other conservatives were mean and uncaring, but he wasn't. It was pandering; more of the Republican "We're not as bad as you think!" strategy.
mb... most conservatives
March 24, 2008 - 08:35 ET by Jermb...
most conservatives gladly label themselves as such. No conservative that I'm aware of says "Don't call me conservative." Can you name some who do?
No. I didn't say or imply otherwise. However, you've reinforced my point. Conservatives are not reluctant to identify themselves as such, because the term has not been saddled with a negative connotation., despite claims that the media constantly strives to do so.
I think if you rummage through the blog history here at NB, you will find thread lead-ins [or at least a number of comments] accusing the MSM of excessive "conservative" labeling when identifying politicians--not in reference to scandals...just in standard reportage. My question is why would conservatives consider that a bad thing?
But, I guess there is a cyclical component to this. For years after the Depression, many--not all, of course--Republican candidates would take pains to proclaim their liberal bona fides.
Jer
If my memory is correct
March 24, 2008 - 08:43 ET by sarcasmoWhat really gets under skins is calling not-so-conservative politicians "ultra" conservative, while they never use the "ultra" label for the other side even when it's ultra-well deserved. But now I feel a rant coming on about the stupidity of trying to use a simpleminded, one-dimensional left-right line to map/describe something like human political diversity. So I'll take a sip of the coffee and say to myself, "don't bother, they've heard it before & seen the quiz." :)
JMR
A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.
Dee
March 23, 2008 - 21:32 ET by Noel SheppardDee,
What Meacham and de facto I were referring to was a post-election split of the Party, not one that leads Obama to run as an Independent this year. This kind of a split takes years not months, and would impact either the mid-term elections of 2010, or the presidential election of 2012.
Make sense? ns
Noel - I know what you mean but I still don't see a split
March 23, 2008 - 23:25 ET by Dee Bunkhappening. I had thought that the moderates wouldn't have stood for the dramatic left turn with Pelosi, Reed and Dean, but they did. The only ones who would start a new party would be the far left and they are okay with either Clinton or Obama.
It's the moderates who would need to start a new party but they don't have any money. The Dems get most of their money from the far left elites. They have no choice but to be lead around by the nose where ever the party takes them.
Someone will be Dissapointed
March 23, 2008 - 20:29 ET by allanfMeacham's comments (or even a third party candidacy for Obama) revolve around the observation that somebody will be very dissapointed or even outraged if Obama loses the nomination.
Well guess what, other people will be very disappointed if Hillary loses the nomination. Both candidates can make convincing cases to their supporters
The Democrats will just have to learn that they can't please everyone.
As opposed to the Democrat
March 23, 2008 - 20:07 ET by FairlightAs opposed to the Democrat party not being split BEFORE the nomination?
In contrast, the way Romney gracefully bowed out of the nomination, and at such an early stage, really illustrates what a mess the Democrat party is in.
This has always confused me
March 23, 2008 - 20:48 ET by TjexciteBeing Canadian and understanding the multi party system. I have a hard time seeing how the two party system even works at all. You have so many different view in one group it is hard to know which way to turn the bus when there are many hands on the wheel. Those that want to keep things as they are and those who what to change, but where the difficulty come from is on how much to change and to what degree. From how I see it there are only two parties because of money and not ideology. But, if the disenfranchised Obama supporters lose by the pledged delgates or the Super they still lose and then now will have the money and the means to make a new party. I also have a hard time understanding when someone is not in a political group like structure i.e. congress they are still defined by there party. When they only have two parties to chose from to get the money to win. It is a party affiliation of convince (like Spiter(D), Mike Bloomberg (D) (R) (I), Joe Lieberman (D) (I).
Understandable since you
March 23, 2008 - 21:05 ET by dscottUnderstandable since you come from a Parliamentary System of Government where party factions form "external" coalitions to keep their monolithic identity or special interest group. The US is not a parliamentary system and favors a different kind of coalition not based on monolithic identity but on shared commonality, thus the party with the greatest votes wins control. The system forces a compromise to prevent any special interest group from gaining unopposed control.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
I see some what
March 23, 2008 - 22:30 ET by TjexciteBut the Democratic party had so many special interest groups in it they can't even compromise on a leader that can create a shared commonality, this is what will be there undoing.
Hopefully! LOL
March 24, 2008 - 05:56 ET by motherbeltHopefully! LOL
Most often, no matter how many factions, once the Democratic party has a nominee, they revert to the pack. Even when Sharpton, Jackson et al were furious at Bill Clinton over welfare reform, which they said would destry the black community, they stayed on board. After all, as Clinton knew very well, what were they going to do, vote Republican?
However, if Obama doesn't get the nomination, I think that will be the slap that they absolutely cannot tolerate....their "Burning Bed" moment, so to speak. And, to put it in terms of a more recent movie: "There Will Be Blood".... both figuratively, of course ;-)
Yes, an undoing of their
March 24, 2008 - 12:05 ET by dscottYes, an undoing of their own making as they were so busy pandering to every victim group out there. The underlying principle of the Dem party was Statism, where the government provides the solutions, but the Dems pushed that principle to the extreme by promising all victim groups the government will solve their problems. The race between Clinton and Obama is one of victim politics, who is the more entitled victim - women or blacks, not solutions since they both have essentially the same platform. The ego contest is just a proxy for the underlying victim pecking order.
Obama was seen as an upstart disturbing the planned order by the Clintons to run country for another 8 years. Obama did not wait his turn and Ted Kennedy jumped the shark with pronouncements of Camelot. Clinton was just supposed to be running against Edwards, the type of (non victim) tasteless white bread candidate perfectly designed to differentiate yourself in a positive manner. Obama's "I didn't vote for war in the first place" undercut any chance of Clinton showing herself strong on national security.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Flip Flop Blog
March 23, 2008 - 21:04 ET by CaringwhiteguyJust a couple of days ago this site was highly critical of Jon Meacham's snooty pseudo-intellectual musings on PBS' Charlie Rose Show. Now we're discussing his fascinating insights?
CWG
March 23, 2008 - 21:40 ET by Noel SheppardCWG,
I don't think these are incompatible. After all, because a media member has a clear liberal bias, that doesn't mean that he or she never has interesting insights. I very often find folks like Matthews, Stephanopoulos, etc., making compelling arguments that I appreciate and learn from.
In fact, as amazing as it might seem, even extreme libs like Maureen Dowd and Eleanor Clift have their moments of clarity.
By contrast, folks like Olbermann are Krugman are right less frequently than a broken clock. ns
cwg
March 23, 2008 - 22:38 ET by candanceI didn't realize we were discussing his fascinating insights. Meacham said no more than the obvious about the DNC's possible future which he is hearing on blogs and radio shows.
This is not a case of Meacham being brilliant - just observant.
I've never operated on the
March 24, 2008 - 05:55 ET by motherbeltI've never operated on the premise that once you agree with something someone says on one topic, you have to agree on everything.
is this any surprise
March 23, 2008 - 22:24 ET by lunaticcringeradiowhen have you ever seen a democrat follow the established rules that were set forth from the begining of a planned event. even if they are rules they had established. as soon as things start going against their design they start crying for do overs, recounts that pale any chance of changing things, and just general bitching, whining, and name calling.
not even talking about the first whine fest in florida, just look at florida and michigan now as a prime example. liberals have no integrity to follow through and accept the outcome of things that go not according to plan.
i personally love to watch liberals spin violently out of control. i can vouche first hand of the early symptoms of this train wreck i noticed back this christmas when we were visiting my ole ladys brother. she never wants to visit them again after his wife jumped her politically on the last night we were there after i had gone to sleep. it didn't work.
is anyone starting to suspect that former vp and now entirely meaningless nobel prize winner manbearpig gore may try and step in? i mean he absolutely said he wasn't going to run, but can you really believe that. that's ok, he's as silly a joke as hillary is now.
lunaticcringeradio
Splitting the Democratic
March 23, 2008 - 22:51 ET by marvlSplitting the Democratic party... this strikes me as an excellent idea. One branch could continues to use the jackass as their party "animal." The other faction could adopt the horse's ass as their symbol. It would signal a new era of truth in barnyard heraldry.
marvl
March 23, 2008 - 22:56 ET bynot to mention a fun spectator sport
Sweet 16 sign-ups here
2004: "We Need Another Recount in Florida"
March 23, 2008 - 23:18 ET by HumblepieDon't forget folks, according to the DMC "every vote counts", right Florida and Mich. The double standards they practiced for years on everyone else is coming back to haunt them by three folds. Hope they enjoy it as much as we do. They have created a new generation of people who believe they deserve everything for nothing and no matter what, its never their fault. A self-destruction in on the horizon for the DNC and as always, it will be the radical right's fault.
Obama's nomination fate
March 24, 2008 - 13:21 ET by bc38In trying to understand the consequences of the race speech I cam across a nice column by Robert Novack. The url is www.creators.com/opinion/robert-novak.html".