The name David Mamet may not be known to the majority of Americans. However, theater and movie works that he's been involved in over the past four decades certainly are, such as "The Postman Always Rings Twice," "The Verdict," "Glengarry Glen Ross," "Wag the Dog," and "The Untouchables."
A previously avowed liberal who even contributes to the Huffington Post, Mamet has recently had a change of heart concerning his political views which he marvelously shared with his fans at the Village Voice Thursday.
Readers are cautioned to fasten their seatbelts tightly before proceeding, for Mamet wrote inconvenient truths about liberalism one rarely sees from folks on that side of the aisle. What many will find truly intriguing, especially those that used to consider themselves to be liberals, is how much the calculus of his epiphany is similar to theirs (emphasis added throughout, infrequent vulgarity alert):
I took the liberal view for many decades, but I believe I have changed my mind.
As a child of the '60s, I accepted as an article of faith that government is corrupt, that business is exploitative, and that people are generally good at heart.
These cherished precepts had, over the years, become ingrained as increasingly impracticable prejudices. Why do I say impracticable? Because although I still held these beliefs, I no longer applied them in my life. How do I know? My wife informed me. We were riding along and listening to NPR. I felt my facial muscles tightening, and the words beginning to form in my mind: Shut the fuck up. "?" she prompted. And her terse, elegant summation, as always, awakened me to a deeper truth: I had been listening to NPR and reading various organs of national opinion for years, wonder and rage contending for pride of place. Further: I found I had been—rather charmingly, I thought—referring to myself for years as "a brain-dead liberal," and to NPR as "National Palestinian Radio."
This is, to me, the synthesis of this worldview with which I now found myself disenchanted: that everything is always wrong.
But in my life, a brief review revealed, everything was not always wrong, and neither was nor is always wrong in the community in which I live, or in my country. Further, it was not always wrong in previous communities in which I lived, and among the various and mobile classes of which I was at various times a part.
Amazing. Makes one wonder how many former liberals have come to similar conclusions about the hypocrisy of their positions -- that their beliefs about life and society were totally diametric to their actual observations! -- and eventually altered their political views and affiliations.
Of course, on the flipside is how many respond to such an epiphany by digging themselves deeper into their dogma. How many liberals does each of us know that demonstrate moments of clarity during discussions either in person or at message boards, but will quickly dig trenches and install landmines around themselves to prevent a conversion from occurring?
Think about this as it pertains to the strong economy that we experienced since 2003 despite continued polls showing folks anxious about such matters. What was interesting about most of these surveys until quite recently is that people felt very optimistic and pleased with their own financial condition, but felt others weren't doing as well.
Isn't this quite akin to the hypocrisy Mamet recognized at his wife's encouragement while they were driving in their car listening to NPR? But there's more:
The Constitution, written by men with some experience of actual government, assumes that the chief executive will work to be king, the Parliament will scheme to sell off the silverware, and the judiciary will consider itself Olympian and do everything it can to much improve (destroy) the work of the other two branches. So the Constitution pits them against each other, in the attempt not to achieve stasis, but rather to allow for the constant corrections necessary to prevent one branch from getting too much power for too long.
Rather brilliant. For, in the abstract, we may envision an Olympian perfection of perfect beings in Washington doing the business of their employers, the people, but any of us who has ever been at a zoning meeting with our property at stake is aware of the urge to cut through all the pernicious bullshit and go straight to firearms.
Quite a revelation from a devout liberal, wouldn't you agree?
Yet, Mamet was just getting warmed up, because next he actually compared George W. Bush to John F. Kennedy, a transgression so serious that he might never be allowed into posh Manhattan penthouses again.
I found not only that I didn't trust the current government (that, to me, was no surprise), but that an impartial review revealed that the faults of this president—whom I, a good liberal, considered a monster—were little different from those of a president whom I revered.
Bush got us into Iraq, JFK into Vietnam. Bush stole the election in Florida; Kennedy stole his in Chicago. Bush outed a CIA agent; Kennedy left hundreds of them to die in the surf at the Bay of Pigs. Bush lied about his military service; Kennedy accepted a Pulitzer Prize for a book written by Ted Sorenson. Bush was in bed with the Saudis, Kennedy with the Mafia. Oh.
To be sure, his views about Bush are tainted by his liberalism. However, can you imagine what the good folks at the Huffington Post will think when they see their hero JFK compared to the president they believe responsible for all the problems in the world?
But Mamet had more inconvenient liberal hypocrisies to skewer:
And I began to question my hatred for "the Corporations"—the hatred of which, I found, was but the flip side of my hunger for those goods and services they provide and without which we could not live.
And I began to question my distrust of the "Bad, Bad Military" of my youth, which, I saw, was then and is now made up of those men and women who actually risk their lives to protect the rest of us from a very hostile world. Is the military always right? No. Neither is government, nor are the corporations—they are just different signposts for the particular amalgamation of our country into separate working groups, if you will. Are these groups infallible, free from the possibility of mismanagement, corruption, or crime? No, and neither are you or I. So, taking the tragic view, the question was not "Is everything perfect?" but "How could it be better, at what cost, and according to whose definition?" Put into which form, things appeared to me to be unfolding pretty well.
Things are unfolding pretty well? Have you ever heard a statement from a liberal so antithetic to liberalism? Isn't the core of the progressive movement the belief that things are NOT GOING WELL? Isn't that what Democrat presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama say on the stump every day?
And how about the current desire of Democrats to expand government? Well, Mamet clearly can no longer support that either:
What about the role of government? Well, in the abstract, coming from my time and background, I thought it was a rather good thing, but tallying up the ledger in those things which affect me and in those things I observe, I am hard-pressed to see an instance where the intervention of the government led to much beyond sorrow.
Yikes. That'll get Mamet thrown out of the Club. And, so will the following story about how some of his revelations actually came while he was in temple:
Prior to the midterm elections, my rabbi was taking a lot of flack. The congregation is exclusively liberal, he is a self-described independent (read "conservative"), and he was driving the flock wild. Why? Because a) he never discussed politics; and b) he taught that the quality of political discourse must be addressed first—that Jewish law teaches that it is incumbent upon each person to hear the other fellow out.
And so I, like many of the liberal congregation, began, teeth grinding, to attempt to do so. And in doing so, I recognized that I held those two views of America (politics, government, corporations, the military). One was of a state where everything was magically wrong and must be immediately corrected at any cost; and the other—the world in which I actually functioned day to day—was made up of people, most of whom were reasonably trying to maximize their comfort by getting along with each other (in the workplace, the marketplace, the jury room, on the freeway, even at the school-board meeting).
And I realized that the time had come for me to avow my participation in that America in which I chose to live, and that that country was not a schoolroom teaching values, but a marketplace.
Wow. You mean it takes a marketplace, NOT a village? This coming from a liberal?
Maybe more delicious is how like so many political converts, rather than digging those trenches and installing those landmines I referred to earlier in order to protect and preserve his dogma, Mamet took to the books to explore the veracity of his revelations:
I began reading not only the economics of Thomas Sowell (our greatest contemporary philosopher) but Milton Friedman, Paul Johnson, and Shelby Steele, and a host of conservative writers, and found that I agreed with them: a free-market understanding of the world meshes more perfectly with my experience than that idealistic vision I called liberalism.
Amen, David. Bravo!
Exit question: how many conservatives came to their current political views in a similar fashion as Mamet, and how many more liberals would do the same if they allowed themselves to listen to that voice inside trying to expose the hypocrisies in their dogma rather than stridently fight to silence it?
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters. Follow him at Facebook and Twitter.




















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From Glengary Glen Ross
March 12, 2008 - 10:53 ET by Jack BauerFrom Glengary Glen Ross thru State and Maine, to the deliciously superb THE UNIT... you can chart Mamet's transformation in political thought that infuses his writing.
Anyone who hasn't seen The Unit should check it out. Start with Season 1, on DVD.
You won't be disappointed at its exciting portrayal of Delta Force and the exceptional best of the best men who serve the President.
Jack
March 12, 2008 - 11:27 ET by ricklailThe Unit does not exist. But when is it coming back?
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
rick -- according to
March 12, 2008 - 12:02 ET by Jack Bauerrick -- according to IMBDpro, The Unit Season 3 is running, last orignal episode #13 airing Dec 18 on CBS.
It appears that it has not been picked up yet to complete the season of 22 episodes.
Could be MIA.
Jack: The first season
March 12, 2008 - 11:27 ET by BDJack:
The first season of the Unit was acceptable, particularly the first couple of episodes but sadly the second season deteriorated. Its long running plotline of the team becoming victimized by "the forces that be" irritated the HELL out of me.
It reminded meof the worst of the X-files with their long running "Scully's kidnapped by aliens" plotline that caused me to turn the channel whenever I determined that the episode would refer back to it. I used to hope for the episodes that dealt with anything BUT aliens, but those hopes were increasingly dashed.
But that is just my opinion.
To the term "jumped the
March 12, 2008 - 11:35 ET by Chris NormanTo the term "jumped the shark", I add "turned to the 'story arc'" - where after a couple of seasons of self contained episodes, there is a lame and convoluted larger background plot running through all the episodes of some series. The "arc" takes over, the episodes become weaker, and that usually ruins that series for me.
BD - oh, I think the 2nd
March 12, 2008 - 11:47 ET by Jack BauerBD - oh, I think the 2nd Season introduction of the Washington element, and the general tenor of politicians playing lip-service when it suits them was well done.
We still don't know how the very murky CIA plot will unravel in Season 3. (Well, I don't, is it running in the US yet?)
It is, after all, a dramatic realization of an interesting subject. It doesn't require me to suspend disbelief too much.
And the greatest element for me is the bond between the men -- and the bond between their wives and girlfriends. That characterization rings very true to me.
It's just a retelling of Mamet's real interest... the power play between people and institutions. If it were just Unit chases down and kills bad guy every episode that would bore me after a while.
The episode which twinned Bob's brutal DF selection regime (dead on if you read Beckwith's book Delta Force), and his selfless struggle to survive and keep a woman alive was exceptional.
But as you say, it's all about one's personal opinion.
Argh.... I would LOVE to
March 12, 2008 - 15:22 ET by BDArgh....
I would LOVE to see something more realistic.
For instance, I would love to see the Unit members as they plan for their next mission in a foreign country have to go interface with a CIA desk officer and mistake him/her for the teeneage intern. The CIA hires kids right out of Ivy League schools with degrees in various folderol (Sumarian Feminist Poetry, etc) and then they quit the CIA after gaining experience to work as a contractor four years later for significantly higher pay. So, the youngest guy in the crowd is always the CIA representative.
I would love to see the State Department reps ruin meetings with the military guys just out of spite.
BD -- are you sure you saw
March 12, 2008 - 17:40 ET by Jack BauerBD -- are you sure you saw Season 2, because there are similar scenes to what you describe.
For instance, when they pull a switch with the intern looking CIA guy and lift a diamond from a black-ops payment to a merchant financing al-kayda.
Then they kill the al-kayda guy at the African diamond mine.
Does not ring a bell....
March 12, 2008 - 18:03 ET by BDDoes not ring a bell....
I agree, the first season
March 12, 2008 - 12:26 ET by amberI agree, the first season was passable and I enjoyed some of the shows, but I quickly tired of the portrayal of the women and the liberal views smattered in the script. Since I was the president of and FRG, a sucky organization, I was particularly offended. The show where children were not given any psychological counseling was an out and out lie. Military one source offers free counselling to familiy members, I think it is 4 or 6 sessions for each issue (you could go indefinately by their deffinition). The affairs may be true, but, I have a hard time imagining a LtC carying on an extended affair with the wife of one of his subbordinates. After one season, it was clear the show decided it's foundation would be immoral sexual behavior.
In all due respect..
March 12, 2008 - 10:57 ET by Nortoand you know what that means. Good heavens, even all the BDS stuff has been disproved by events and given that his lib friends voted for the incursion, and many of us who were in the Guard when the Bay was looming would have gone, and he failed to include any mention of Clinton and his charades(wagging the dog) or hers!
Sorry, this guy's flop has more to do with all the money he has made and where it came from. His largess is from here and he is covering his tracks for some reason which will manifest itself in the future.
I'm not so sure. Knowing
March 12, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Clear thinkerI'm not so sure. Knowing how the left will probably want him put to death like a rabid dog, I tend to think his conversion is for real.
"Abstain from McCain"
Thoughts for all, in the end...
March 12, 2008 - 11:00 ET by Gary HallI'd like to add, Noel, that the parting words of Mamet's column are words that all in the US need to hear:
He added "Happy election season;" however we really can't achieve that goal until, as a society, we learn to listen to each other and to talk "with" each other. (;~>
How many liberals does each
March 12, 2008 - 11:15 ET by Chris Norman"How many liberals does each of us know that demonstrate moments of clarity... but will quickly dig trenches and install landmines around themselves to prevent a conversion from occurring?"
Noel, even when the philosophic underpinning of their liberalism has eroded away, many of them can't bring themselves to admit it. I truly believe that it's a class/intellectual (or pseudo-intellectual) elitist hang up. They see conservatism as somehow being coarse and low class and don't want to be identified as such.
Chris you hit the nail on the head
March 12, 2008 - 15:16 ET by Dee BunkMost liberals realize it at some point or another but they are too worried about fitting in with their liberal friends. They don't have enough courage to stand up to being demonized either. It's so easy and effortless to be a liberal.
Mamut has a ways to go. I
March 12, 2008 - 11:08 ET by marpelMamut has a ways to go. I used to be a liberal, even voted for Jimmy Carter. It was the worst vote I ever cast. But, still, I didn't vote for Reagan until his 2nd term. It took a while, and it had nothing to do with money as in Mamut's case. Reagan turned it all around for me.
WOW!!!
March 12, 2008 - 11:10 ET by HypocriteHaterI think David's going to find out real quick who his true friends really are, if he has any left after this. Libs don't take too kindly to traitors amoungst their ranks and he'll have first hand experience of the venom and hatred that conservatives have experienced for decades from the left.
He'll be lucky to be writing
March 12, 2008 - 11:22 ET by Chris NormanHe'll be lucky to be writing "Vegetables are our Friends" for the first grade class play at PS104 - correction - make that Grizzly Adams Elementary School in Bearskin, Idaho - he'll nevr work in NYC or LA - ever again. :)
PS 104?
March 12, 2008 - 17:03 ET by Del DolemonteI went to PS 104 in New York City from 1966 til 1969. However, it was (and still is) a junior high school, as far as I know.
One Door Closes...
March 12, 2008 - 11:27 ET by rammingspeedIt's true, Mr. Mamet's writing career as it is currently structured will be over. But told the truth after (certainly, I hope) careful consideration and knows what lies ahead.
He has ultimate courage and deserves total respect. He'll land on his feet.
David Mamet (R)
March 12, 2008 - 11:27 ET by Rihar"that everything is always wrong." -Mamet
Hmm. Right vs Wrong/Right vs Left. It does seem that more and more often if one is "Left" then one is also "wrong". I don't have to tell any of you this, it's often used as an easy club with which to bop the noggins of liberals. In this instance however it speaks to a truth (speaks truth to power?, nah... that's too easy) that if you are a liberal then EVERYTHING is considered wrong. It's wrong provided of course that it's not permissive, open, or amoral.
But wait! Permissive as long as you don't smoke, make more money than anyone else, don't eat meat, recycle...
Open as long as you don't want to join the military, own a gun, live in a house that is "bigger than you need", don't speak your mind if it differs from liberal "free speech"...
Amoral as long as it doesn't conflict with liberal morality.
We've all heard stories of conservatives turning into liberals, the evening news seems to have a radar for those people. Often however there are clues that the MSM Republican-turned-Democrat radar is picking up false positives. Did anyone notice that David Mamet didn't call himself a "Lifelong Staunch Democrat"?
When a liberal speaks, the truth is busy elsewhere.
Better late than never
March 12, 2008 - 11:28 ET by dboListening to Mamet reminds me of the famous Chuchill quote "If you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain." Think how much better our society would be if Friedman, Sowell, Hayek etc. were required reading before you left school.
Btw Noel, I enjoyed watching you on Glen Beck the other night it's just too bad that you didn't get more time. It appears you didn't even get your allotted 15 minutes of fame.
That's one of my complaints
March 12, 2008 - 11:42 ET by Chris NormanThat's one of my complaints about Glenn Beck. Many of his
interviews are far too brief, even when his guest is interesting. His show is too rapid fire Monday through Thursday, then on Fridays, he'll spend an hour (!) talking to one guest - like Michael Buble (?) or Trace Adkins. I suspect it's for scheduling purposes - he wants Fridays off and uses a pre-taped celebrity interview to fill it.
This is, to me, the
March 12, 2008 - 11:35 ET by dscottThis is, to me, the synthesis of this worldview with which I now found myself disenchanted: that everything is always wrong.
And that Noel was the both the genius and seminal truth of the Reagan Revolution. This is why liberals dispised Reagan. All is not wrong with America, despite the odds we muddle through and so there is only progress not an end or beginning but a continuum. I seem to remember a passage from Henry David Thoreau or someone of that time period who said something very similar about everything will continue as before despite it all.
Please notice Noel, that Mamet's deprogramming if you will, occured as an epiphanny or sudden snap when he began examining the edges of the belief system and so found his freedom from the mind control of the cult called liberalism. He may call it brain dead now that he has passed out of the mind control, but in fact his mind was so busy rationalizing the discontinuities that he couldn't, wouldn't suspend the disbelief because his mind was so enmeshed in maintaining the world view he initially accepted. No one wants to believe they are wrong, and certainly no one wants to accept they wasted all that time and effort in being wrong, pride is a strong emotion. Liberals start the path to conservatism when they are forced to rationalize the discontinuities of the dogma and can't find the answers themselves. Fahrenheit 454 is probably the best movie ever made that dramatizes this conversion. "If you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss stares back at you" Nietzsche
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Walden Pond:
March 12, 2008 - 12:21 ET by dscottWalden Pond: http://thoreau.classicauthors.net/walden/walden4.html
Shams and delusions are esteemed for soundest truths, while reality is fabulous. If men would steadily observe realities only, and not allow themselves to be deluded, life, to compare it with such things as we know, would be like a fairy tale and the Arabian Nights` Entertainments. If we respected only what is inevitable and has a right to be, music and poetry would resound along the streets. When we are unhurried and wise, we perceive that only great and worthy things have any permanent and absolute existence, that petty fears and petty pleasures are but the shadow of the reality. This is always exhilarating and sublime. By closing the eyes and slumbering, and consenting to be deceived by shows, men establish and confirm their daily life of routine and habit everywhere, which still is built on purely illusory foundations. Children, who play life, discern its true law and relations more clearly than men, who fail to live it worthily, but who think that they are wiser by experience, that is, by failure. ..... Men esteem truth remote, in the outskirts of the system, behind the farthest star, before Adam and after the last man. In eternity there is indeed something true and sublime. But all these times and places and occasions are now and here. God himself culminates in the present moment, and will never be more divine in the lapse of all the ages. And we are enabled to apprehend at all what is sublime and noble only by the perpetual instilling and drenching of the reality that surrounds us. The universe constantly and obediently answers to our conceptions; whether we travel fast or slow, the track is laid for us. Let us spend our lives in conceiving then. The poet or the artist never yet had so fair and noble a design but some of his posterity at least could accomplish it.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
"God himself culminates
March 12, 2008 - 12:32 ET by JoeBob"God himself culminates in the present moment".
Both C.S. Lewis in The Screwtape Letters and Madeleine L'Engle in her A Wrinkle in Time trilogy expounded on this theme, but Thoreau put to to poetry. Thanks for the excerpt!
Without recognizing the ordinances of Heaven, it is impossible to be a superior man. - Confucious
Don't Forget E.E. Cummings
March 13, 2008 - 00:03 ET by jtateSeeker of Truth, one of my personal favorites...
Maturity
March 12, 2008 - 11:40 ET by KC MulvilleAdam Smith discussed the form of government that conservatives grasp easily. Two neighbors may have congruent properties, and a swamp straddles their border. It’s fairly easy for the two neighbors to work out an arrangement to drain the swamp. But when we magnify that situation, things get tougher. Some public problems cut across many boundaries, among millions of citizens, and we can’t all sit down for an amiable chat as neighbors. Government is how we address that. The heart of government is still a common discussion (through representatives who haggle on our behalf) about how to drain the swamps, and how to pay for it.
The other view of government is that it’s the arena where great citizens rise to acquire power, and through their magnificence, they lift up the rest of us to higher planes. In this view, representatives are elite "champions" who decide what's best for us. The idea that great citizens need to ennoble us is much older, but (we think) it's a remnant of our political childhood. We conservatives think it’s a mark of maturity that we no longer need great citizens to make us perfect. We don't need Obama, or Hillary, to ennoble us. Instead, we'd rather have people who can haggle. We just need the swamp drained.
Mamet gets it.
Okay, I am not a conspiracy
March 12, 2008 - 11:42 ET by Sick-n-TiredOkay, I am not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the term; but for some reason I am wondering, and perhaps waiting for the other shoe to drop. What I mean in saying this is, does anybody here, like myself, think Mamet was 'joking'? i.e. doing this as a gag? I remember Rush one day on the radio swearing up and down he was converting to a liberal (a similar show was done by his shadow Hannity, or as I like to call him 'repeat'); of course, and thank God, it was all a prank. With that being said, and the fact that the Village Voice actually let him post this on their website, makes me wonder if this too was/is all a prank.......
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.
Mamet
March 12, 2008 - 11:55 ET by iveseenitallMamet is in transition. He still thinks President Bush "stole" the election in Florida. But it must be hard to look at the light after all those years in the dark. Remember Plato's Allegory of the Cave?
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
the problem
March 12, 2008 - 12:12 ET by seaniepsounds like my problem with trying to be a liberal . . . sooner or later, you have to pay your bills and visit walmart because its a little cheaper
A work of beauty. . .
March 12, 2008 - 12:40 ET by tracheostomyFrom this day forward, the realization that everything cannot all be wrong will be forever known as "Mamet's Epiphany."
I wept when I read this. It hit so close to home. I couldn't even go back to theatre-arts for fear of more rejection that I was already getting.
When arguing with a liberal from now on, all we have to say is say, "Mamet."
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
The greater the rage
March 12, 2008 - 13:34 ET by dscottThe greater the rage (anger) of a liberal, the closer they are to recognizing the discontinuity between reality and their dogma, their subconscious is rebelling at the heavy burden of rationalization. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. ... 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." [NIV] It is amazing that so few people truly understand what Jesus said and why.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
It is interesting to note
March 12, 2008 - 13:36 ET by balboaIt is interesting to note that he's suddenly decided that "things are good" when at the same time deciding that people inherently aren't.
Yes, it is. I would
March 12, 2008 - 13:57 ET by dscottYes, it is. I would submit that he traded the generalization that all people are inherently good with "some people are inherently bad". A very healthy outlook on life. When you see people like Jeffrey Dalhmer and others you face the realization that a generalization of "everyone is good", is false. Soon enough he will fully accept the notion of individualism where each person must be evaluated on his merits instead of simply giving everyone the benefit of the doubt or assuming a person's behavior is linked to his genetic inheritance. Once that is accepted he inevitably will believe that life is about choices and all choices have consequences. The slippery slope of conservativism...
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
I don't believe those are
March 12, 2008 - 13:59 ET by balboaI don't believe those are strictly conservative beliefs.
Good. I'm glad you think
March 12, 2008 - 14:06 ET by dscottGood. I'm glad you think that way.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
Bal, it's not the belief
March 12, 2008 - 14:10 ET by tracheostomyBal, it's not the belief itself. It's where you take the belief.
I can have that belief and isolate it in a nice tidy room; lock it away for fear of it getting out and causing. . .trouble.
Get it?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
»→ Mamet
March 12, 2008 - 12:49 ET by Cool ArrowThis guy must be ready to retire if he's coming out now.
Don't expect any more of his work to get up on the screen.
♣ a seal
I love House of Games,
March 12, 2008 - 13:28 ET by balboaI love House of Games, State and Main, etc.
I'm a democrat, but I don't think everything's horribly wrong.
And as I've pointed out, of course HRC and BHO are going to say things aren't going well. Why would a democrat trying to unseat the other party from the presidency say otherwise? They're not going to say "Things are great, but vote for me anyway."
For me, that is the difference...
March 12, 2008 - 14:33 ET by ontheright...between liberalism and conservatism.
Liberals will deliberately lie if they believe it will benefit them somehow.
Conservatives refuse to lie even if they believe it will benefit them.
Conservatives refuse to lie
March 12, 2008 - 14:54 ET by balboaConservatives refuse to lie even if they believe it will benefit them.
Well, that's a lot of hooey.
It's not "Hooey" from where I stand..
March 12, 2008 - 15:03 ET by ontheright...maybe it IS hooey with your circle of conservative friends.
So no conservative has ever
March 12, 2008 - 15:05 ET by balboaSo no conservative has ever lied for their own benefit. That's what you're saying.
No...
March 12, 2008 - 15:11 ET by ontheright...had you read my post as I wrote it instead of interpreting through a biased liberal prism you would have seen the words..."For me..."
Had you taken notice of those two small but very important words you quite possibly would have understood meaning of my comment as a whole....or not.
Wait, let me get out my
March 12, 2008 - 15:25 ET by balboaWait, let me get out my biased liberal prism...
I've seen many...
March 12, 2008 - 15:37 ET by ontheright...of your posts. You aren't kidding me. You never put it away. :-)
Dang prism's on the fritz.
March 12, 2008 - 15:40 ET by balboaDang prism's on the fritz. Let me get out the liberal 8-ball: "Ask again later."
No, it's not Bal. Because
March 12, 2008 - 15:05 ET by tracheostomyNo, it's not Bal. Because they are either disciplined, disputed, or shunned.
You need to keep the collective in mind when you regard the lying individual in question.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
You need to keep the
March 12, 2008 - 15:09 ET by balboaYou need to keep the collective in mind when you regard the lying individual in question.
What does that mean?
:counting to ten:We're
March 12, 2008 - 15:20 ET by tracheostomy:counting to ten:
We're talking about conservatives as a whole, Bal. You need to keep that in mind when you flip-flop back and forth between individuals and the collective whole.
For example. Did Mark Foley or Larry Craig have a GOP version of James Carville on their side when their scandals broke? How come Carville is there to play apologist for the Spitzer scandal?
The point stands. Conservatives hold themselves to a higher standard and liberals know how to exploit it by isolating the weakest in the herd (the individuals).
This however, does not destroy conservatism. In fact it makes it stronger.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I suppose you're right on
March 12, 2008 - 15:24 ET by balboaI suppose you're right on the "whole" "individual" thing. I just think it laughable the idea that somehow Conservatives are above lying.
The idea isn't so
March 12, 2008 - 15:28 ET by tracheostomyThe idea isn't so laughable when you apply it to the whole. They have a set of immovable standards that members are expected to meet.
As opposed to liberals, who don't really have a problem with moving the goal-posts around to suit them.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I think Republicans _say_
March 12, 2008 - 15:39 ET by balboaI think Republicans _say_ they have immovable standards.
But we're not talking about
March 12, 2008 - 15:41 ET by tracheostomyBut we're not talking about Republicans.
The dial may turn, but the settings are fixed.
The same thing is happening with the Dems, BTW.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
The BUSH-JFK Comparison he made...
March 12, 2008 - 13:51 ET by reelman46Bush was NOT a serial adulterer... Bush did NOT spy on MLK ... Bush did NOT give away Cuba by going back on his word... JFK did all those things!
Oops, I forgot, character (or truth) does not matter to democrats... sorry.
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
Dead link?
March 12, 2008 - 13:57 ET by tracheostomyCan anyone get the Village Voice link to work?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I think they took it down
March 12, 2008 - 14:08 ET by seaniepI think they took it down when they realized what was in it
try this link
March 12, 2008 - 15:27 ET by LionKingLINK
Dennis Miller.
March 12, 2008 - 14:49 ET by Seton Motley"Exit question: how many conservatives came to their current political views in a similar fashion as Mamet, and how many more liberals would do the same if they allowed themselves to listen to that voice inside trying to expose the hypocrisies in their dogma rather than stridently fight to silence it?"
Seton Motley
Director of Communications
Media Research Center
I too used to be a
March 12, 2008 - 16:24 ET by RickTaLifeI too used to be a liberal. Not as far left as they are nowadays, but definitely a liberal. This was really due to lack of factual knowledge. But, as they say, then I grew up....realized that I was actually, at the least, a bit more conservative then I thought I was...and then, the more I learned, I realized I was extremely conservative....in a Bill Buckley Jr sense. So now I continue my life, to the right, and patiently explain to those who'll listen why it's the way to go. :-)
My conversion from Far left Liberalism
March 12, 2008 - 16:55 ET by 911isbusyIt was interesting to read Mamet's conversion. I too came from lifelong liberalism (voted Democrat all the way up until I voted for Bush in 2004). My change came when I moved from San Francisco, where I grew up, to Oakland across the Bay. My wife had just had our baby girl and my male instinct to protect my family kicked in and overrode my politics.
My path to Conservative Libertarianism (is there such a thing?) came by way of the gun issue. Oakland has more than a hundred murders every year and I realized that if someone broke into my house, I should not expect a fair fight nor should I expect to have the time to call 911. I thought about why I was anti-gun to begin with and realized I wasn't versed enough on any of my political views to discuss any of them beyond, "the rich are always sticking it to the poor", "corporations are all corrupt", "Republicans are all racist", etc. Who needs facts when we already presume the conclusion to be true?
So, I took it upon myself to overcome my fear of guns by taking a day-long introductory class with an instructor who was a former Vietnam vet infantryman. This experience made me question everything I thought I believed in, not just guns. I learned that "gun nuts" are people too (how's that from a former liberal?). The vast majority are good, honest, gentle people and are by and large much safer around guns than most (not all) cops - so much for the paranoia.
Ever wonder why so many on the far left cannot get beyond ad hominem attacks when discussing issues with conservatives? As a former liberal, its because we didn't know what the heck we were talking about and to us the facts didn't matter.
Those who have not swords can still die upon them.
911isbusy,
March 12, 2008 - 17:02 ET by R D HelmWelcome to the real world. :-)
LOL-Just remember, 911 is dialed when its over, not before.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Its great to be free
March 12, 2008 - 17:05 ET by 911isbusyIts great to be free. I'm considering flying the Gadsden Flag ("Don't Tread on Me") if a Democrat wins the election. Wonder how my neighbors will react...
Those who have not swords can still die upon them.
Great Flag
March 12, 2008 - 17:38 ET by m36b1Personally, I like to fly the old Revolutionary "Naval Jack" with the "Don't Tread on Me". I got it after September 11th for a big counter-demonstration to the anti-war picket going on at the federal courthouse in Sioux City, Iowa after the bombing of Afghanistan. Sad to say that the folks living in the northeast where these flags originated from seem to have wandered far from those Revolutionary War ideas and slogans. Heck, lots of those folks (see some of the Obama headquarters stories) fly Communist Cuban flags with pictures of Che' and wear old CCCP paraphanalia proudly! And... you heard no fuss about it in the MSM, as compared to somebody flying an old confederate flag. Ah yes, flags.
Welcome 911isbusy
March 12, 2008 - 17:18 ET by m36b1Refreshing story 911isbusy. Welcome to the NB site. Hope you enjoy this site because timely issues actually get discussed; sometimes there is bomb-throwing back and forth between folks, but for the most part it's pretty civil.
Move Over Zell Miller...
March 12, 2008 - 17:12 ET by blogonatorI think we have new speaker for the convention this year.
Wow, so pre-natal lobotomies are reversible after all!
March 12, 2008 - 18:07 ET by R D Helm:-)
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!